23/02/2012 This Week

. Welcome to This Week where all the magic happens, but the

Government's work experience scheme is struggling to impress the

audience, is it set to disappear in a puff of smoke? Michel Roux Jr

thinks thinking that gets -- thinks getting anyone working is a start.

Everyone has to start somewhere. It could be your chance so grab it!

130 billion euro bail out agreed by the eurozone. Could it really be

the magic bullet that the Greek economy needs? The Mirror's Kevin

Maguire thinks it is just an I will illusion.

The real fighting has started. Will the country be standing for the

final round? I'm not so sure! And with the shock news that boxers

have been caught fighting, Ben Cohen addresses the trick tricky

issue of how rivalry can turn tricky.

It will take more than a magic trick to make prejudice disappear

in sport. Abracadabra it is This Week.

Welcome to This Week. Where shall we start? Yes, anybody out there

remember the Big Society? Call me Dave's big fat idea that turned

into a big fat doo-doo. Fear not, community secretary, Eric Pickles

thinks there is life in the old dog's dinner in the Big Launch. It

is best served when we sit down with our neighbours and share our

cottage meal for one. Indeed, food is never far from his

thoughts. He saved weekly bin collection after claiming it was

the right of every Englishman to have the remnants of their chicken

tikka masala collected every seven days.

Excuse us for feeling a little let down when we heart the salt of the

Bradford earth, yes Mr Pickles, his favourite dish ain't roast beef or

Yorkshire pudding. It is a fish stew.

Who could have guessed that the Pickles was such a your roe

friendly -- euro friendly food. I am joined by Michael Portillo and

Jacqui Smith. Michael, your moment? Ah, well, today, bankers pay has

been in the news and the normal justification is we have to pay

high rates because of international competition, but as it happened

last week, I was on the trading floor of a big German bank and the

attitude in Germany is different. I mean there is a social attitude

there shouldn't be too big a gap between the lowest paid and the

highest paid in their society. So you don't find German bankers who

are paid less than British bahrningers rushing to Britain to

get paid more. The argument breaks down there and then an interesting

thing was said to me me they said analysts are paid half as much as

the analyst in London -- analysts in London. They do he he twice as

much work in Frankfurt than in London. If the labour is cheaper,

that attracts the work and the jobs to the place where the labour is

cheaper and in the case of banking, the labour is cheaper in Frankfurt.

It hasn't resulted in the banks flooding to Frankfurt.

They won't pay the high rates. Jacqui Smith.

Controversy on two fronts. First of all, interesting process wise

because Vince Cable appointed him despite the fact that the House of

Commons Business Committee refused to con confirm his appointment and

despite the fact that we hear that fellow Conservative Cabinet

colleagues didn't want him to be appointed. So that's interesting.

But perhaps even more importantly from a policy point of view, he

sounds robust. I hope he is. I hope he is going to hold to the fire,

Higher Education Institutions who in order to get their �9,000 a year

fees should be doing more than they are doing to widen access.

We will be keeping an eye on him to see what happens.

I had a sad sad moment this week. I heard when I got up that two Syrian

journalist, two jurn journalists had been killed in Syria and I was

in the car when I heard Marie Colvin was one of them along with a

French photographer. Marie joined the Sunday Times when I was editor

and became one of of our star correspondents. How typical it was

of Marie that she had gone into a city, probably the most dangerous

city in the world and she had gone in there because there was no

independent reporting going on. We were Dependant on the rebel s or

the Syrian authorities. She wanted to go there because she believed

that independent reporting mattered and paid with her life for it. She

was the best foreign correspondent of her generation.

Everyone seems to have had the highest opinion of her.

The Government's work experience scheme has been under pressure with

the usual suspects claiming that kids working for welfare benefits

is worst than slave labour. Despite call me Dave's thoughts on the plan,

Tesco's have crumbled in the face of a Twitter campaign and changed

their policy. We asked Michel Roux This is where I started my career

as an apprentice, at the the kitchen sink, cleaning pots and

pans for the first year. It taught me respect, but taught me that

cooking starts with a clean pot and I wouldn't change that for anything.

Kids these days want to be the next Gordon Ramsey, John McCain Jamie

Oliver or me, but they want instant success and they want it on a plate

now! Kids don't realise, that me, Gordan and Jamie got where we are

by hard work. Hard slog. Kids don't want to stack shelves, a meanal

task. They would rather be sat on benefits.

Here, I take on dozen of students and apprentices from colleges, from

France, Italy and the UK. Apprentices like Rosie, learning

the tasks of cleaning pots and pans and chopping carrots.

They work their socks off for two years and hopefully move on and

become a success in their own right. For me, work experience is

invaluable and that's what I always look for in a CV.

It might not be perfect, but those criticising the Government's scheme

are standing in the way of something good. It is not slave

labour. People are getting life skills. They are getting experience.

They are proving to the world that they want to do something with

My message to youngsters is that money doesn't grow on trees.

Whatever your background, if you want to do it, you can. Just go out

there and do it. Even if it means Michel Roux Jr from his little

kitchen in London. I will help you wash the dishes afterwards. Very

kind of you. I can see why people would like to

do work experience with you, they are going to get Michelin-starred

training, but is that the same as stacking shelves in Tesco's?

would say yes. I would say any work experience is invaluable and I look

at a CV for example and the first thing I see is work experience and

where they have been. I will take someone on if they haven't got any

work, any experience in a kitchen, but if they can prove to me, that

they have got off their back side and even if it is stacking shelves

or being a paperboy, or anything like that, but it proves to me that

they have got it. They want to do and they want to achieve in life.

And that's what work experience, I think, is all about.

Have people who have done work experience with you gone on to get

full-time jobs? Most deaf most definitely, it it happens all the

time. Have you given someone on work experience full employment

afterwards? Absolutely and I have a kitchen full of them, well not at

the moment, but it is not something that just happens. I think it is an

attitude problem that bosses have got to change and when I say bosses,

I don't mean the big Tesco's or Sainsbury's, the big companies,

smaller companies and I do think think as well that's where the

Government can help more, the smaller companies.

They should be doing it as well, you think? I do, absolutely.

What's the problem then this this country if there is one with young

people? I mean, isn't the real issue a simple lack of jobs rather

than a lack of application or is it a lack of application? We were

talking before the programme began a lot of jobs have been created in

this country, but so many of them have gone to hard-working

immigrants who do have the attitude? Yes and it is an attitude

problem. I believe that. And why should these jobs go to immigrants

when there is a workforce, a British workforce there that needs

possibly to be re-educated in simple life skills and the life

skills mean getting off your back side and into a job even if it is

not your first choice of a job, but proving that you can do something.

So even in a time of high unemployment you think that an

attitude problem is keeping young British people out of jobs? Not all

of them. That would be a blanket... I didn't mean all, but some.

A certain amount of this em, yes definitely.

What do you make of that? I think the Government is right with their

scheme. The trouble is with it, and I think you were getting to this,

Andrew, you describe this as being the first rung on the ladder. The

trouble for young people, there aren't the other other rungs after

you have done your work experience. This week, we had Nick Clegg

announcing a relatively small scheme for people who weren't in

employment or education and he described youth unemployment as a

ticking timebomb, if it is a ticking timebomb Nick, how come you

have let it tick for the last 18 months after having done away with

the Future Jobs Fund? You are shaking your head, Michael? I am. I

don't know where this idea comes, one tenth of Americans, their first

job in life is flipping a hamburger and some of the great hamburger

chains give you a star for every skill you acquire. When you have

learned to wash up, you get a star and when you have learned to Flynn

the hamburger, you get another star, when you learn to serve a customer,

you get another star. They have hamburger universities, the kind of

things we sneer at, but that's taking people on to the next level

about how you run the company and get experience in in dealing with

bigger issues of customer service. This is the way it has to go, but

people have to start and they have to be willing to go things at the

bottom. Isn't there the concern if this

becomes widespread, you end up supplying free labour to very

profitable companies? Well, we are in lard times and I

believe -- hard times and I believe what Michel has said. It is about

what you are being given and the gift of training and of skill and

of the first foot on the rung of the ladder, that's worth more than

the pay. It is a sense of achievement as

well. That work experience, as a youngster, you have done your bit,

your two weeks, four weeks, whatever the time is, but it is a

huge sense of achievement and with that, I think, you can go forward

and go on to that next rung which is maybe a full-time job.

But if it becomes too widespread, wouldn't there be a danger with so

many kids on work experience, it means that companies don't have to

create full-time jobs at the unskilled end on proper salaries?

Work experience is never going to take over from full-time employment.

That's for sure. I'm not going to overnight suddenly fill my kitchens

with work experience, no because they don't have the qualify kationz,

they -- qualifications, they don't have the skills. You need full-time

employees? Absolutely. There is something to be said about

getting the work habit. If you don't get it when you are young, if

you don't get up in the morning, if you don't get dressed, if you don't

meet other people, you only get a job by meeting other people? That's

why I'm saying, I support the idea of work experience and and Michael,

I am not snooty about what sort of work... You are not a job snob.

There is argue argue There is arrogance if you work at Tesco's,

that's below people. Once you have done your work experience, you have

got the opportunity to go on from that, to a proper, paid job, after

a relatively short period of work experience and my argument is today

when we have seen figures that show big increases in young people

without education or a job, or training, when we have seen youth

unemployment going up, the real problem is, is there a job there

once you have got the skills and done your work experience?

Otherwise all you are doing is you are giving people false hope. This

Government has done away with a lot of the programmes that would have

Youth unemployment rose under your Government too, even at a time when

jobs were generally booming, it rose? It's been a problem for some

time, it's getting worse at the moment. Jacqui's broadly on side.

The Government's tried to do it, we have been given the case for it.

The opinion polls suggest the public are in favour of this sort

of thing, yet it's turned out to be a PR disaster for the Government?

I'm not convinced about that. We still have a majority of working

people in the country and the majority of working people think

that there is a problem of youth disengagement from the labour

market and want to see kids knuckling down and getting that

first job. Whatever may be the ups and downs of this particular scheme,

the general philosophy is still very popular. The Government as

well, instead of saying this is a good opportunity, you should take

it, they've made much of the sanctions and playing the touch

angle. That I think is what has worried people about it. But there

has to be a bit of tough there. It's tough love and, come on, kids,

they do need a kick up the backside every now and then. It doesn't hurt.

They need discipline and they need to to to work on time! I'm quite

happen Foy kick my own kids up the backside, I kick my youngest out to

do his paper rounds most mornings... You're a good mum jiefplt but I

wouldn't be happy in ten years' time if he didn't have a job.

he's done the paper round he's up the chimney cleaning that as well.

Do you think there is a job snobbury in this country? There was

about being a waiter in British restaurants or a cook or so on, it

was seen as that's not what we do, now they are some of the best paid

jobs? I agree that it still does exist this job snobbury, I'm too

good to stack shelves, I'm too good to be a waiter, for example, and

we've got to get rid of that, we must get rid of it. People can take

pride in waiting and I think people could take pride as well in

stacking shelves. I always observe that it's rare in England to meat

an English waiter, whereas in Spain, every waiter is Spanish, in Spain

it's seen as a profession, I don't know why it isn't here. In France

as well. Michelle Roux, thank you to you. It's late, very late. Far

too late to save Andrew Lansley's reputation or the Commons fig trees,

but not too late to pour yourself another pint of the blue stuff.

Coming up, former Rugby Union star and anti-hope folkic captainer Ben

Cohen will be talking about the pearls of bitter rivalry -- anti-

homophobic. If bitterness and recrimination with your thing,

which we can attest to that they really are, you already follow us

on the Twitter, the Facebook and the interweb, formally known as the

Al Gore superhighway to nowhere. Tempers have been fraying in

Westminster this week even though MPs j just returned. My learned

friends insist that Eric Joyce has been charged tonight over a "hm hm"

disturbance in a bar following allegations of an altercation. You

are lucky Diane wasn't in the room. She knows how to pack a punch. We

have asked our very own tough man, Kevin Maguire, to don his boxing

gloves and give us his round-up of the political week.

Boxers have suffer add beating in the British Press this week, but

don't worry, Kevin, "The Hack" Maguire is here and ready to

Politicians have started scrapping ahead of next month's budget title

fight. About over what the Chancellor should do to prop up

squeezed middle weights, a couple of former champs re-etred the ring.

In the blue corner lame Thatcher boy wants tax cuts on businesses,

and in the yellow corner, David "Expenses" law Laws got in a jab of

his own. If we can decrease the income tax threshold, that gives us

the opportunity of ending the austerity in household budgets.

Nice footwork from Laws. He's no feather weight in the Lib Dem camp,

he's still sponging down Nick "Clogger" Clegg and he's a real Lib

Dem, one that is listened to. So George "Cruncher" Osborne might

heed his advice. There was no ducking and diving for Andrew "Dead

Man Walking" Lansley. He's had a bruising week. On his way to a

Downing Street exhibition fight where doctors, nurses and midwives

were foolishly banned from the ringside, the Health Secretary was

Duffed up by an old lady. Excuse me, I've got to get in there. I promise

you, waiting times in the NHS have gone down. It will not go private.

I've had enough of you, I've had enough of you and Cameron. I'm very

sorry you say that. The NHS is not for sale, there's no

privatisation... Lansley tried to show that he is a fighter, not a

quitter. And he might be down, but he's not out with a defiant snarl

of his owns. Sticks and stones et cetera. Ed "Don't Call Me David"

Miliband got Lansley with an upper cut. The Health Secretary should be

quiet and listen to the people who work in the Health Service.

If he'd done some listening before... He should calm down, Mr

Speaker, he should calm down. Let's finish him off with a quick

one - two. Lot me say to the Health Secretary, I don't think the Prime

Minister wants advice from him. many fists are flying. The

spectators must be confused, but the Prime Minister's certainly on

the back foot, Labour and Liberal Democrat pueg lists in the

coalition are sensing a potential knockout.

Picked up off the floor again was Greece, the prize, a second bail

out this time 130 billion Europes. The good European Cameron put on a

brave face. Greece has made its choice and we now have to focus on

the next step which is constructing a firewall that is large enough to

prevent contagion within the eurozone. The real fighting in

which people were killed, including Sunday Times journalist Marie

Colvin, was in Syria,. The Government made a statement. I want

us to tighten an economic and diplomatic stranglehold on the

Assad regime, I want the countries mooting in Tunisia tomorrow to

agree together what we are going to do to increase the pressure on that

regime to stop this killing. On the ropes was treez Da "Kitten

Heels" May. She struck back -- Theresa. The report reveals a

border force that suspended important checks without per motion,

spent millions on technologies but chose not to use them -- permission.

It sent reports to ministers that were inaccurate, unbalanced and

Will divide and rule conquer the problem? I'm not so sure. Can I

have some water over here? I know there's a drought coming, but I

might pass out. Oh that,'s better, I'm back in the ring. Take it a

right kicking was the Government's flagship jobs programme for young

people. What was billed as work experience was attacked as slave

labour, a charge Nick "Clogger" Clegg denied. It's not slave labour,

it's entirely voluntary. What the scheme is is very simple. We say to

employers, take on the young people, we'll pay them, the Government will

pay them through benefits but please keep them on for a few weeks

because it increases their chance of then finding work.

So it was another gruelling week in Westminster. Queensbury rules, not

for Eric Joyce in the bar, I'm going to hang up my Governor F

gloves and do something safer. I say, anybody here play polo?

-- hang up my gloves. He's probably seeing stars after

that little outing! In a years' time, what's more likely, finding

Lord Lucan or Greek membership of the eurozone?

I think... Well, Lord Lucan is dead... Just a joke. Just a joke.

I... A bit slow on the uptake? guess probably Greece will be out

of euro. You think, yes? Probably. I don't think it's absolutely

certain, but what is to be absolutely certain is that the

policies being pursued by the graeck government under duress from

the European Union stand absolutely no chance of leading the graeck

economy to recovery, that's what I'm sure about -- Greek government.

In ancient Greek, a lot of contact with reality or an over estimation

of one's capability - discuss? is the Stour of the euro!

interesting thing about the Greek situation is that there does seem

to be a willingness to make short- term arrangements to keep them

within the euro. Now, there's no doubt, it seems to me, the

agreement reached this week is about actually getting them passed

March, getting them passed the next period. But the idea that by 2020

they'll be able to reduce their share of debt as GDP from 160 to

120% is wholly unrealistic. report the eurozone ministers were

given by the imMF and the eurozone secretariat said that it wouldn't -

- IMF. There's a terrible cliche of kicking the can down the road, but

that seems to be what they've done? Yes. And there's been a big change

of attitude since November until now because the United position of

the European Union in November was that it was unthinkable that Greece

should leave. The position is now much more divided. Quite a lot of

ministers within the eurozone now think that the more affordable

option is that Greece should leave. Is it not remarkable how the Greek

- I know there have been demonstrations and buildings on

fire - is it still remarkable how the Greek people are putting up

with this? They've lost almost 20prgs of their economy before the

minimum wage is to be slashed by 20%, pensions slashed more, 150,000

public sck for jobs to go in a country of only 10 million people -

- public sector jobs. You would think there would be revolution by

now? And people have almost responded with almost a desperation,

a quiet desperation. When you hear teachers and others talk about the

situation they find themselves in, you think, you know, we may have a

squeezed middle in the UK, people may be finding it tough, but what

people are having to go through in Greece is really unbelievable.

There has been a change of Government but not a change of

Government brought about through a democratic uprising. I think they

are being stoical, which is another Greek word. Yes. But when you are

faced with the inevitable, this is what you have to do. It's a

terrible time in Greece, but even for them, nowhere is as terrible as

in Syria. Marie Colvin's death and the French photographer, another

British photographer seriously ill, we have not managed to get him out

and another woman, not managed to get her out I don't think either.

Does this have an impact on the international community more than

the death of ordinary nameless Syrians does? Well, in a way it

does and in a way of course it shouldn't because thousands of

Syrians have died. Obviously it's been in the news but it hasn't

perhaps had the sense of urgency for us in Britain until now with

the death of Marie Colvin and the other deaths and injuries. The

international community still seems to me to be very short of options.

As long as there is the Russian veto, and there's no sign of that

changing, we are very short of options. I can't see a full

military intervention. No. I could see us moving to a no-fly zone.

Interesting though, I listened to the Government ministers being

questioned by people who were totally opposed to Iraq but saying

why are you not doing more about It is difficult. I think Michael is

right. It is hard to see what the right arroach would be. The context

in which the questions are asked is a reasonable amount of success for

French and British foreign policy in terms of the way they responded

in Libya and I think people in a simp Policic way, ask if it can

happen in Libya, why can't it happen in Syria?

That is what is in in people's people's minds when they are

questioning why more can't be done. Let's come back to domestic matters,

the Health Service. The coalition, particularly the Tory strategy was

to put it on the back burner. It dominates the headlines. It

dominated Prime Minister's Questions and Andrew Andrew Andrew

Lansley having trouble in his entry to Downing Street. Is David Cameron

wise to stick with him? It would be worse to let him and worse to let

the legislation go. It is true it is a big matter in Parliament and

it is true that the Health Service matters to people, but I'm

wondering, these health pro forms are so confusing which is a very

big argument against them, but they are so immensely confusing that I'm

not sure that people quite have the sense of danger that Ed Miliband

hopes that they will have. Labour is trying to paint it as

this Government's poll tax, but the poll tax was an easy thing to

understand and if you were against t easy to find reasons to be

against it. This is more, I'm sure most of the House of Commons don't

know what reforms mean. Except that, of course, David Cameron wanted and

succeeded to detoxify the Tory brand with respect to the Tory

brand. The problem for him now is when waiting starts going up, when

it takes longer, accident and emergency units are missing their

targets for seeing people within four hours, although it isn't

because of the of the Bill... will get the blame.

People will blame the Tories and the Government and it will be

difficult. Could it be the coalition's poll

tax? No, for the reason you have given. The poll tax was a per

perfect storm because every single person in the country paid T

everyone was affected. Most people, most of the time, don't use the

Health Service. On the Budget, we have had David

Laws coming in saying the same thing as Nick Clegg. This huge push

to get everybody out of tax for the first �10,000. Do we think that's

going to be in the Budget? I think something like it will be

there. I don't... The full �10,000? I don't think this conversation

will be going on in public, unless George Osborne thought he could get

a long way towards it. Ed Balls said he would prefer a cut

in VAT, but if you can't have that, he will go with this. The

difference is he would borrow to pay for it? He identified the

problem being a lack of demand and a lack of confidence and therefore,

argued yes, you know, bringing VAT back down again would be the most

effective way of doing it, but I have got no doubt thea recognises -

- that he recognises the need longer term, not to close off doors

to Liberal Democrats, and has been willing to say, "If there are other

ways of doing t for example, increasing the personal allowance,

that's something to be considered." But that is not as progressive as

the Liberal Democrats like to describe it. It is of more benefit

to people on higher incomes and if you don't earn at all, you don't

gain from it. This is finally. Theresa May said

that the downgrading of the immigration controls began in 2007.

I believe that was when you took over the Home Office? It is your

fault? And if you read John Vine's report, in 2007 we strengthen the

requirement to check people against the warnings index. A lot of that

didn't happen. There were 350 times between 2007

and 2010 when it didn't happen for the reasons we have heard about,

but that report clearly shows that the biggest impacts were under this

Government and just today we learn that in the last year, fewer people

are being detained and caught at the border. Fewer people are being

caught and deported and fewer foreign prisoners are deported.

There were problems, but there were improvements happening and it is

worse now. When it comes to our competition,

we have met our match! What if Newsnight won some Mickey Mouse

awards last night. Big deal if the Today programme had an exclusive

with William Hague? Who cares if Loose Women blocked New kids on the

block. That's why we have decided to put aside our envy and put

Hopefully, rivalry of the best kind will be on display this week and

when the Six Nations take to the field and try their hardest to stay

within the rules. Old firm passions can be sometimes hard to fath

fathom. Why are you not fighting me now?

You want to tell me in my face. Tell me in my face.

Boxers have always this this thrived on a sense of over hyped

animosity. This week, we saw the down side of taking the hatreds a

punch too far. Downing Street was forced to hold a

summit on racism and home phobia in football which is stoked by bitter

terrorist rivalries. This is important for the football.

There are so many footballers who are role models for young people in

our country, we want to make sure football is about a power to do

good rather than anything else. Maybe it is a good job that

politics isn't a contact sport unless you are Eric Joyce,

otherwise we might be tempted to lock them up rather than lap them

Ben Cohen welcome to the programme. Thank you.

Do you need a bitter rivalry to bring out the very best in you as a

professional sports person? Well, you need competition. You need some

sort of rivalry, to bring the best out in you, you know, whether it is

competition for your club or international, keeping your

international spot. You need some rivalry.

Was it different depending on who you played? Did you step up a gear

when you were playing the Welsh? Or the Scots? To be honest with you,

whenever you put on the white shirt, you generally want to perform 10%

more than you probably would. There is some teams you play there

is more rivalry, playing Scotland at Murrayfield is a bit different

to playing Italy in Rome? They have different challenges. There is

different challenges. One, if you are playing Scotland, there is a

rivalry there, of course, whenever we play the Celtic nations there is

a rivalry against England. You see these countries that raise their

game by 10% and you know, we probably do as well. There is that

rivalry there. But when you play against the Italians, it is a

different passion that they have and... And they are getting better?

They are getting better. You don't want to get shown up by someone who

might not be as good as you, William or Gareth Thomas are world-

class players and they can do things that will make you look

silly on the pitch. What about rivalry with your own

team-mates? Deaf lit any. You get more injuries and more rivalry

within a team to get that start in Jersey at the weekend. You need

that competition within clubs because more healthy competition,

you are going to climb the league. You want people who want to play

for their country. They want to strive to be world-class people. If

they have got that in the teamks and people are fighting for their

positions, they will bring the best out in their team.

All that is healthy and it makes for a better sport and better teams

and better games for the spectators to watch. It has a dark side when

that kind of, when a bitter rivalry uses ratism and hom and homophobia

to underline that rivalry? It is sad to see. It happens? It does

happen. I have to say that a rugby crowd is different to a football

crowd and maybe very different, a football crowd will be different in

Europe than in the UK, but it does happen, yeah. It is sad to see that.

David Cameron said there, you woe no sportsmen are role models and

they really do young players and The Next Generation really want to

emulate sportsmen, especially footballers. They have got a huge

role to play within their local community and probably worldwide,

global rock stars really in the sports world.

Surely, it is an international brand.

Exactly. Clearly the sporting authorities

and the teams have to do all they can and more to sort this out. Is

the Government right to get involved? Can the Government help?

I think so. I think so. They need to attack it - they did a great job

in racism in sport and espitionally in -- especially in football.

You think it has got better? They attacked it from grass-roots level

and they came in from the top. The FA backed it and they attacked it

from both angles. They really squashed it and really contained it.

As I said before, sportsmen and women across the world really have

a role to play and they do, a lot of sportsmen and women, really let

that part of their performance down. We know the top sports brands in

the world are really looking at personal endorsement contracts so

they can hold them accountable because they know that there is a

direct impact to, you know, what the players are doing to the next

generation or current generation. Is the Government right to get

involved? I think so. It is an issue that goes beyond football or

beyond rugby or the sport that it is in and particularly in football,

some of the recent racism incidents I think suggest that we've gone

backwards. The other thing is that Government likes to be associated

for positive reasons with that type of role model that sportsmen can

bring. When I was Home Secretary, I was grateful to have members of the

England football team work with us on trying to prevent people

carrying knives. There is no doubt that young people are more likely

to listen to David Beckham or or Rio Ferdinand than to me.

I am backing a campaign with the Home Office, and we know home

phobia is the last fob phobia to be kicked -- phobia to be kicked into

touch. But we have a long way to go and by getting top sports men and

PMs or Royals to back that within schools, we can really educate the

children of what homophobic slurs mean and do to youngsters.

Michael, what's your view on this? The Government is right to be

involved. I don't think there is a great deal the Government can do. I

think hard work has been done within the sports and that's where

the hard work has to be done and Ben has done a lot of. It. There is

a problem with racism and we have seen the incidents, but in a way

homophobia is worse than racism in football, isn't it? It is something

that is about and something that hasn't been touched on in the years

before, but it is becoming more prominent. We know that what

bullying does. Anyone who is perceived to be different gets

bullied and whether that be homophobia or racism or it could be

the colour of their hair or size. There is a lot of work to do.

There is a lot of work and we're glad that you're doing it.

That's your lot for tonight. I would like to leave tonight by

saying thank you so much. Nothing makes me prouder than coming home

with six BAFTAs and coming to the RTS Awards and winning. I am proud

to be in a room with all of you here tonight!

Andrew, I am sorry, I am going to have to cut you off. I am sorry to