19/04/2012 This Week

Tonight This Week limbers up for the London Marathon. As the long-

running battle to deport terror suspect Abu Qatada continues, Home

Secretary Theresa May is finding the going tough. Barrister and

judge Constance Briscoe thinks it's time for the politicians to get

into shape. The Home Office needs to get back on track, to stop

making elementary mistakes, otherwise we are destined to lose

the race against terror. Charities are the big winners of the London

Marathon, but are Cameron and Clegg going wobbly over their charity tax

relief plans? Journalist and commentator Mary Ann

Sieghart does a bit of cleaning to keep fit. The Budget continues to

be an omnishambolic for the Government. David Cameron's really

got to clean up his act. And the US presidential race is

certainly a marathon campaign. But with the front runners flexing

their muscles, one of the voices of The Simpsons, Harry Shearer, gets

behind the characters. The circus is over. The big spending is about

to begin. On your marks, get set, go!

Evenin' all. Welcome to the This Week party. It's been quite a week

for us denizens of the international wet set. First we

jetted to Columbia, where Hilary Clinton was papped out on the pop,

while Secret Service agents hired their own local "refreshments" and

refused to pay for some of the "secret services" rendered and were

then sacked as a result. Then it was off to Italy, where it's

claimed former PM Silvio "Bunga- sconi" entertained strippers

dressed as nuns! Can it be true? Is the Pope - and the strippers -

really a Catholic? After that we made it to Paris, where up popped

Pippa Middleton with a pistol- packing French prat in toe. Her

Eurotrash "chums" proved money doesn't by you sense or taste by

holding a lavish fancy dress party with fire eaters, dwarves, and a

Day-Glo 18th century S&M theme, making Prince Harry's Nazi outfit

look tasteful by comparison. Finally, to dear old Blighty, where

Theresa May celebrated the arrest - yet again - of terror suspect Abu

Qatada by partying the night away with X Factor judges, Lorraine

Kelly, and some slack-jawed rapscallions from The Only Way Is

Essex! Though while the Home Secretary was comparing spray-on

tans, Qatada was lodging a last- minute appeal in Strasbourg. So it

now appears that the only way isn't Essex but the European Court of

Human Rights appeals process. Which doesn't sound like nearly as much

fun as vajazzling. Whatever that is! Speaking of the pointless and

the socially useless, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two of

Westminster's biggest party girls, the Kardashian sisters of late-

night political chat. I speak, of course, of #manontheleft, Alan 'AJ'

Johnson, and #sadmanonatrain, Michael 'choo choo' Portillo. And

by overwhelming public demand, #maninthemiddle, 'chatshow' Charles

Kennedy. Two people wrote in. Good to see you. Pleased to be back.

Michael, your moment of the week. Since Mr Vikram became chairman of

the bank, my stock has gone down. This week the shareholders noting

that the bank had acquired his hedge fund for $159 million and

paid him another �53 million thought maybe he had another money

already and the shareholders voted against his package in a majority.

Capitalism is only going to work when shareholders fight back and

stop these ludicrous salaries. At the moment the people who run the

banks are plundering the banks. Bankrupting the shareholders and

making off with the loot. It is important, because this is

happening in the United States. It is time that people in the United

Kingdom stopped saying we need competitive salaries because

salaries are higher in the United States. Smell the coffee. In the

United States the remuneration is coming down. Shareholders fight

back, it's a least. Who would have thunk it. Alan. Yesterday in the

Budget debate, my moment of the weeks there we were fighting

against the VAT increases in pasties and church repairs and

caravans. Static caravans. When we discovered there was one item upon

which VAT has been reduced from 20% to 5%. I found out it was ski lifts.

Ski lifts. Someone is taking the piste here. That's why you chose it

as your moment of the week. You wanted to get that line out.

benefits Aviemore, which is in the constituency of the Chief Secretary

to the Treasury. How clever. Do you have any ski lifts in your

constituency? I do as a matter of fact. It is a carve-up. Your moment

Mine is Scottish as well. I don't know how much traction hate had

south of the border. A particularly horrible murder case, dating back a

number of years, 15 years ago in Scotland, on a limited basis, but

they allowed the cameras into the court for the judge's sentencing.

We saw that on network television. There's been a lot of discussion

about where this might lead to. My mind was going back over 20 years,

in my first Parliament,' 73 to 1976. I was put on the committee into the

televising of the House of Commons. I was in favour of that. Sure. It

seemed natural. You look back at some of the dire warnings. It was

like reading the debates about giving women the vote, that it

would be the end of civilisation as we know it. A lot of the

discussions with journalists and the public now are taking place

about the courts. It is a static image of the judge. That will

change. You are only allowed to show the dispatch box. If

somebody's asleep you are not allowed to show that. Now it is

more flexible and I think the courts will go that way. Very good

moments of the week from all three. It can only go downhill from now on.

Like the ski lifts! If it does go down we'll get a ski lift to take

us back up. It's been a difficult Thursday of Theresa May. Maybe she

got confused and thought it was a Wednesday or a Tuesday! Whatever.

This morning the Home Secretary was force to do so come to the Commons

to explain how Abu Qatada, for it is he, managed to launch an appeal

against his portation and continued to run rings around the Home Office,

their well-paid lawyers and the legal system. Recorder and

barrister Constance Briscoe joins us for her take of the week.

The attempts to deport Abu Qatada has descended into a ridiculous

farce. The Home Secretary, Theresa May, ordered his arrest on Tuesday,

believing that the deadline for him to return to the European Court of

Human Rights had passed on Monday midnight. His lawyers believe that

the true deadline was Tuesday midnight. And so they then launched

a last-minute appeal with about an hour to go. Whether Theresa May is

right or wrong, it really doesn't matter. It is her handling of the

situation which really matters. It is farcical and it has left us in

this country as a laughing stock of Europe. If there was a deadline,

surely the best thing to do is to play it safe. You allow for a day

or two, one way or another. Being in this country for a very long

time and did it really matter whether there was a day or two

extra? Since 2001, successive Home Secretaries have repeatedly failed

to deport him out of the country. As a result of, that they've left

this country vulnerable to terror and to attack. We have been playing

cat and mouse between us attempting to deport him out of the country

and Europe telling us that we need to make certain guarantees. Of

course, we all respect the European Court of Human Rights, and of

course we must carry out the rule of the law. It should be a matter

of grave concern that a sovereign state cannot decide who can and

cannot remain in this country. We should not have to rely on Europe

to tell us that we cannot deport dangerous individuals who are a

threat to our national interest. Constance joins us. Welcome. Let me

put some of the points you were making there. A lot of people will

think constance is right that police stations of all the major

parties have failed and that Mr Abu Qatada's become a national

embarrassment, Alan? He has become a national embarrassment. In terms

of all politicians failed, Theresa May, she reminds me of that Eric

Morecambe sketch when he is playing the piano and Andre Previn says,

"You are playing the wrong notes" and he says, "I'm playing the right

found a problem with Article 6, the right to a fair trial. Witnesses

might be tortured. But showing her hand and almost laying down an

invitation for his lawyers to appeal on that basis, you had to be

way to do that was to wait until Wednesday. It looked like it was

rushed out to meet the headlines. understand that. You will

yours have been trying to deport this guy since 2001. I watched

Yvette Cooper play party politics with this issue. I think most

people will think a little bit of modesty on Labour's part as well as

contrition on the other part wouldn't go amiss. I don't play

that card. The Conservatives do. He was given leave to remain. We can

play that game as well. That's where your point is right. You have

to do it the right way. I believe in the European Court of Human

Rights. I believe that it is right to question these decisions against

Article 3 and Article 6 and Article 8. Due process can take a long time

Countries where they don't have due process they do it quickly. They

are not the countries I want to live in. Constance, clarify, one

thing I didn't understand in your take, you said we should always

respect the rule of law but also that we should have ignored the

European Court and put him on a plane. I didn't say that at all. I

said the rule of law, we should always respect that and carry it

out. At the moment, as I understand it, we could have question ported

him. All we needed to do was wait another 24 hours. It seems to me

that Theresa May foregot in was a leap year. I think that's where she

got her calculations wrong. Sorry, what makes you think if Theresa May

had not spoken that day things would have been any different.

Because the appeal came after. reason it's been delayed is that

Abu Qatada's lawyers put in an appeal which prima facie seems to

be within the time limit. obviously has an appeal and he's

appealed. He's done nothing wrong. I'm not saying he has done anything

wrong. Theresa May's decision to make a statement, even if it now

looks foolish, if we had waited 24 hours we wouldn't be in a different

position. That isn't right. Her statement triggered an appeal

process. She wasn't planning to deport Mr Abu Qatada tomorrow.

Even she admitted it would take weeks, if not months for the

process to go through. So it wasn't a window she could have stuck him

on a plane because he hadn't appealed in Strasbourg. Nobody is

suggesting she was going to put him on a plane. As I understand it, the

whole reason why she waited after the ruling in January was so that

the appeal process would be exhausted. Now, had she waited

another 24- 48 hours, he would not have got his appeal in time.

not? If they were planning, in they understood the deadline better than

she - that's the point isn't? don't know whether they understood

the deadline. All we know is as a result of Theresa May saying the

deadline had passed, they put in the appeal. There's a wired

political issue here and it is part, many will see it as a gulf between

the mass of what people think and the political establishment on the

left and the right. The people of this country don't think he should

be here. They are fid. He's been around for long enough, since 2001,

just get him out. And the politicians can't deliver. That's a

fair assessment. Most people would say the whole thing is barking mad.

We are going round the circles. God knows what the cash register is at

since this man first set foot in Britain to the taxpayer. I'm a

member of the Council of Europe. The House of Commons and House of

Lords, both houses of Parliament send a delegation, as do the other

46 countries. I was in strar earlier in the year --? Strasbourg

earlier in the year. David Cameron made, and I'm not from the same

wing as him, we are poles apart. He made a first class performance in

Strasbourg to address probably the most disparate parliamentary

Assembly in the world. You could be dealing with social assist

agrarians from Eastern Europe or UKIP and all point in between, or

We lose the chairmanship of the council in May. It is only for six

months and we do not get it again for 23 years. The reforms the

British Government wanted have already been watered down to get

the consensus of 47 countries. It is like herding cats to get

agreement there. Even if they got the reforms through without

watering them down, it would make no difference to a case like Abu

Qatada. I entirely agree. It is all very well whistling in the wind

about this, but if you are raid charge or a legislator, you have to

take the position that you abide by it the rule of law. -- if you are a

judge or legislator. We may think it is ridiculous, but we are signed

up to the European Commission of -- Convention on Human Rights. Very

few people think we should not be. When you look at its articles, they

appear broadly sensible and they seem to have lots of leeway to the

application of national law and circumstances. We believe the way

in which the court is interpreting some of these matters is wayward

and we are doing what we can to address that. But none of us can

grandstand and say, we would put him on a plane. We would not

because we have a duty as legislators and judges to abide by

the law. If you could wave your magic wand - and I am well aware

that the chairman of the European Court said there is no magic wand -

but if you had won what major change would you make in the way

the European Court works, or the relationship between the European

Court and our own Supreme Court in domestic circumstances. There are

two areas I would be concerned about. There is a delay in the

backlog of cases that the European Court, 152,000. The whole point was

speedy justice and it seems that backlog is because there are quite

a lot of cases that really ought not to be there. The second point,

I suppose, is that there should be a clearer definition as to the

national interest and how we, as a country, deal with that. Rather

than have our national law interpreted in the way that it has

been by the European courts. 50% of judges in the European Court have

no previous judicial experience. would say we need clarification and

perhaps a realignment as to what it is that they do. One was a TV

presenter before becoming a judge. I can see a future here! The very

quickly, Theresa May, will her head end up on a plate? It may. He said

with a smirk! Knocked over this. She has already stayed twice as

long as most Home Secretary is but she will not be their infinitely.

Charles? I do not think this is the thing that will bring her down.

Tomorrow in the Telegraph, Abu Qatada free in days after Theresa

May got the date wrong. Even the Tory press not giving her the

benefit of the doubt. The Left press had a go at Tony Blair and

the Tory press are having a go at Cameron. I think this is a Mayday

crisis for her. This is what I think. It is serious. Thank you.

Now, it's too late to prevent a fracking earthquake toppling the

Blackpool Tower, but not too late to brace yourself for our next

guest. Because coming up, voice of the Simpsons, star of This Is

Spinal Tap, Harry Shearer, who'll be explaining the desire to become

President of the United States. And for those with more limited

ambitions, kid yourself that you matter, by following us on The

Twitter, The Facebook, and the plain old vanilla interweb.

Now, politics is a dirty business at the best of times. But even we

were shocked to see how grubby David Cameron's Downing Street

operation is looking these days. If you ask us, the whole place could

do with a spring clean and a spray of air freshener to dispel the

whiff of panic. We've always liked to lend a hand to those in need so

we've asked the Independent's Mary Anne Sieghart to head off to David

Cameron's flat above Number Ten, feather duster at the ready, to

give us her round up of the Look at the state of this place!

Sam and Dave have let it go downhill since they have not had to

keep it spruced up for kitchen suppers with party donors. I bet

Dave wishers many of the measures in this had been left before they

were announced to the country. Budget 2012, known in polite

circles as a shambles, has caused no end of troubles for the

Government. Pasty tax, Granny Tax, and now the decision to limit the

amount of tax relief that top-rate taxpayers get back from charity

giving. He was supposed to be bashing the rich, but now he is

accused of bashing charities, because their income is going to

fall by about half a billion pounds. It looks like Dave has realised

what a mess his neighbour has been making. This was never going to be

introduced until next year - plenty of time to get it right, consult

and listen. The principle is more for charities and philanthropic

giving, yes. Allowing people to drive down their tax rate to 10%

when they are the richest in the country, No.

And this must have been in a few years. I bet I could get a few bob

on eBay for this. This man made a rare visit to the TV studios this

week to give the current Prime Minister some advice. What they

should do now that they have the time - I have been through

situations like this and sometimes things slip through - the important

thing is to correct them and not to end up in a battle with the

philanthropic sector that they will find difficult to win.

Government is in a right lather. Some of its proposals, like the

charity staff, were badly thought- out. Others, like the Granny Tax

and pasty tax were justifiable but really badly sold. Ministers have

been so scalded by the bad press that they are not prepared to stand

their ground. It is a complete mess. Ed Miliband is starting to clean up,

with the latest polls giving him a nine-point lead. But if Ken

Livingstone does not win the London mayoral election and Labour lose

control of Glasgow City Council at the local elections, those

mutterings against Ed Miliband's leadership could start again. But

none of the political leaders is immune because Tory backbenchers

are muttering about Cameron's leadership and the loss of grip in

Number 10. Meanwhile, poor old Nick Clegg is watching his party's

ratings go down the plughole. I bet he longs for the sunny days of

I need a breather. George Galloway returned to the House of Commons

for the third time this week. Let's hope he remembers which

constituency he is representing because after the by-election in

Bradford West, he tweeted that he was the new MP for Blackburn. It

must be so confusing going from Scotland to London, to somewhere up

in the north-west. The Prime Minister took the opportunity at

Prime Minister's Questions to welcome him back, but mainly to

have a dig at Ed Miliband, whose party should have held Bradford

West. He lost the Bradford by- election. That was a great success.

He has given one person a job opportunity, George Galloway.

Meanwhile, Ken Livingstone had to come clean about his own tax

affairs, and this from a man who said tax avoiders were rich

bustards who should not be allowed to vote, which gives Cameron a

sitting target. We have a Labour candidate for Mayor of London who

is paying less tax on his earnings than the people who claimed his

office. I think that is disgraceful. Why will he not condemn it?

thought he only cared about rich people. He certainly cares about

Boris, because if he wins London again it will be a triumph for the

Tories. But it might be a problem later because it puts Boris in a

strong position to get back into the Commons at the next election

and challenge George for the Tory leadership.

And there has been a stubborn stain in the British justice system which

even Theresa May has been unable to scrub out. She gleefully announced

this week that the extremist Muslim cleric Abu Qatada was finally going

to be deported. Officers from the UK Border Agency arrested and

detained Abu Qatada and served notice that we are resuming his

deportation. The assurances and information the Government has

secured from Jordan mean we can undertake deportation in full

compliance with the law and with the ruling of the European Court of

Human Rights. Only to discover the next day that he has lodged an

appeal. She says it will not stand and it turns on how many days

elapsed since the original judgment. How hard can it be to count them,

even in a leap year? I know the Home Office is shambolic but you

would have thought civil servants could count to 29th. Cameron has

got to clean up his act, fast. It is bad enough if the voters do not

agree with what he is doing, but if they think he is weak, incompetent

and willing to do a U-turn when he is criticised, it is a whole lot

worse. She is now serving tea and scones.

Michael, four weeks since the Budget, and it continues to unravel.

Can you remember a Budget that keeps on giving, but not in a good

way, for the Government? Yes, I can probably remember a couple. 1981,

Geoffrey Howe's budget, that rumbled on and on, and I think it

turned out to be one of the great budgets of modern time. But that

was over the whole macro-economic stance. And Gordon Brown with the

10 pence tax. For what it is worth, I think this will turn out to be

very important and outstandingly successful Budget because he

tackled things he needed to tackle, the top rate of tax and the rate of

corporation tax. But, yes, the Government now seems to be

incapable of explaining its policies. And to make unpopular a

provision that stops the highest earning people from deciding they

will pay nothing at all towards the National Health Service, towards

defence, towards education, to make that unpopular is a kind of

perverse triumph for Government. Here is an existential question -

is it classic mid-term blues, or, as some people even in Downing

Street think, there is something more systemic about this, something

more serious? There is something more systemic but that is not mean

it is not recoverable. There has been a massive loss of form by the

top players. Both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the

Exchequer have lost form in the last few weeks. They seem incapable

of explaining their policies at the moment. But that has happened

before two governments and they have got better thereafter. There

is an awfully long time between now and the election. It is serious.

They are 11 points behind in one of the polls. The whiff of panic that

was mentioned just now, there will be a whiff of panic. Charles, the

incoming missiles are targeted at the moment at Mr Cameron and Mr

Osborne. But there is bound to be, by virtue of coalition politics, on

all of these things, collateral damage for your party as well.

Precisely so. We were discussing this very point on Tuesday evening.

Nick Clegg was making that very point, that with local elections

coming up in two weeks, that is going to be difficult for both

governing parties, both coalition partners. But if the Conservatives

take this heavy shelling and it carries on for the next fortnight,

and it is not showing much sign of abating... The Abu Qatada thing

adds to the criticism of incompetence. Yes, incompetence,

out of touch, all of these things. The Conservatives might well take a

hit but we would get caught in the slipstream and we are not in a

strong position, as we know. So you have to look at it not just in

terms of partisan politics, even as coalition partners, but competing

in two weeks, hand to hand combat in the streets in certain areas at

the moment where we are head to head. The fact is that the

coalition overall takes the Dent, we probably take a disproportionate

Terms of polls these are good times for Labour at the moment. The kind

of midterm lead that an opposition party expects has materialised.

Tomorrow's poll in the Times will put Labour ahead. Yet your party

lost Bradford West. It is in danger of losing Glasgow to the

nationalists in the local elections. And according to the polls, this

Labour City of London, Mr Livingston doesn't look like

winning that. No, and we shouldn't get carried away with the polls at

this stage. They could have a medium term increase. Bradford West

was a problem, but you can't replicate the Galloway factor. She

very eloquent. You can't detract from his campaigning skills. They

that very well. If Respect could produce 300 Galloways it would be a

problem. All the people who talk to me say it doesn't feel that Boris

is six points ahead on the streets. Ken has a great deal of substance

that frankly I don't think Boris has got. He's got the charm and

other attributes. How do you explain this. The polls for London

show that Labour as are 8 to 10 points ahead. The same points show

a 13-point discrepancy. Why? Don't ask me to explain the polls. He's

been damaged by some of that stuff. Even Alan Sugar is saying don't

vote for Ken Livingstone. You can't, because your party put him in the

Lords as well. You must be over the Moon that the Conservative

candidate looks like winning London. Well, we'll wait and see on the day.

As they say. Would you care tonight to make a ringing endorsement of Mr

Boris Johnson? No., I wouldn't. Would you care tonight to tell us

who you are going to vote for in the London mayoral elections?

will be looking for a candidate who endorses a third runway for

Heathrow Airport. That is fundamentally important for the

capital. I cannot understand any candidate presenting himself or

herself without such an idea. You've waxed lyrical on the couch

that you would have voted for the man with 30 years of experience of

keeping Londoners safe. Briefly Charles, is Labour in danger of

losing Glasgow Glasgow to the nationalists Has is almost as bad

as losing London to Boris. I was in Glasgow yet. I was speaking to two

sage and long in the tooth Labour politicians, one of whom is

retiring as councillor after many decades. Their private view was

Labour would probably emerge as the largest party on Glasgow City

Council, short of an overall majority. It is not quite a

symbolic defeat. A lot of hacks north of the border are sharpening

their pencils to write some negative stories about the SNP and

Mr Salmond. That might well get written up if there's a defeat or a

setback for the SNP. How much do you think is George Osborne did

blame for the current sense of incompetence and out of touchness?

As I said already, I think George has failed to explain policies

which seem to me to have absolutely than most other European countries,

and which is solidly supported by both parts of the coalition. So you

think it is still going to come right? I think the growth rate in

the economy is very low, which austerity package. OK. On that

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 135 seconds

unusual agreement there... # I am so in love with you.. #

let's get on with it. We are joined by the voice of many

of the iconic Simpson's characters. Montgomery Burns. Yes, interesting,

a man of many powers. And Principal Skinner. Absolutely. But not Willy

We saw you playing Nixon in this programme on Sky Arts next week, in

doing that, did it give you any insight into the kind of

personality that makes you want to be President? He is a special case.

He was a tremendously twisted psyche with burning resentments.

Huge chips. Huge chips and paranoias and fears, something very

rare in America, blazing class resentment. He hated the Ivy League.

And the fancy people. But normally, when you think that somebody has to

look in the mirror and say, "You are the leader of the free world"

no-one who puts himself up for President is probably psyche

alongically eligible for the job. Just by wanting to be. Just by that

desire or sense, because they are saying I'm going to spend two years

of my life raising more money than God has to repeat the same four

sentences coast to coast, eat the worst food prepared by man just to

prove, "I like what you like." It is a nonsensical concept. It should

be a random lottery the Saturday before election day and you choose

who to vote for. Does that mean why the cast of characters in the

primary race was more dysfunctional than the cast in the Simpsons?

be fair, less yellow. The cast of characters was amazing. You had

mishally batchman who -- Michelle batchman. And Herman Cane, the

black pizza magnate, I don't think that praise has been used enough,

whose sole platform was a tax plan summed up with three numbers - 999.

In Britain that's what we use to call the police. Of course. And

Rick Perry, the Governor of Texas, who in a television debate said

there are three departments of the United States Government I want to

abolish. The Department for Education, the Department of Energy

and... Oops, and this was the end of him. And Rick Santorum, who quit

the race last week. A former Senator from Pennsylvania, rejected

by his home state by a vast margin, who talked a lot on the campaign

trail. He is a right-wing Republican, appealed to

fundamentalists. Talked a lot about his three-year-old daughter who was

born with a chromosomal defect, and as a member of the rifle

association, he enrolled her as a life member.

Newt Gingrich is still He hasn't quit yet. He visits zoos and was

bitten by a penguin last week. Obama and Mitt Romney different

politically. Policies and issues will matter. But I have to say that.

Personality will matter too won't it? This will be a big personality

election. I think it will be the subtext of Mitt Romney's campaign.

I was saying on Twitter 8 months ago nominee rhymes with Romney. The

subtext of his campaign is we tried charisma, it didn't work. That was

a New York mayoral candidate who tried that against the famous Mayor

Lindsay, a squat campaign. Had enough of car is match. Mitt Romney

has zero charisma but Americans are suckers for this idea that a

businessman can run this bar than a politician. And we in New Orleans

where I come from will experience of that and it didn't work out too

well. Your programme is on Sky Arts

week on Thursday. You are works than Theresa May!

look forward to that. That's your lot for tonight, folks.

But with half the BBC now broadcasting from a bothy in the

Salford Wheel Tappers' and Shunters' Club and the House of

Lords being encouraged to relocate to the abandoned tripe factory next

door, a tripe factory being quite fitting some may say, we leave you