Browse content similar to 04/07/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Fireworks and gunfire in Cairo, as the military oust the elected | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
president. Egyptian-born comedy producer Ash Atallah looks to the | :00:18. | :00:28. | |
:00:28. | :00:30. | ||
streets, not the skies. This revolution may have been explosive, | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
but the fuse that list it was people's everyday concerns. | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
High explosives and short fuses in Westminster, as David Cameron fires | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
a rocket at Ed Miliband. Five Live presenter Victoria Derbyshire is | :00:38. | :00:48. | |
:00:48. | :00:50. | ||
watching the display. It was quite a spectacular router witness, but did | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
all the punters go home happy? And sparkling performances at | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
Glastonbury, but will a rock star central banker be the answer to the | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
UK's economic problems? Top business firecracker Stuart Rose lights the | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
:01:08. | :01:08. | ||
touch paper and stands well back. The leader is important but it is | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
what is behind the leader that is really important, and that is the | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
:01:22. | :01:24. | ||
people in any business. Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week, a | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
lonely beacon of illiberal bias and prejudice shining through the | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
wishy-washy BBC metrosexual fog. Yet you join us tonight in existential | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
peril, in which even such basic liberties as the right to drink Blue | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
Nun on the job are in peril. Because we are under attack from an | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
all-powerful enemy within. Remember them? Whose tentacles, according to | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
Call-Me-Dave at PMQs yesterday, are spreading everywhere. I'm talking of | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
course about the dastardly Unite trade union, and its mission to | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
control the world. It's already taken control of the commanding | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
heights of a little known but vital institution of the British | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
establishment known as the Falkirk Constituency Labour Party. There are | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
also reports that it's infiltrated the commanding lows of Newsnight, | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
though since nobody's seen it recently it's hard to tell. And, of | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
course, we already know it had the power to force an unimpressive Ed | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
Miliband on an unimpressed Parliamentary Labour Party. So it | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
was only a matter of time before they came for This Week. As of 7pm | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
last night, around the time the military coup was kicking off in | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
Cairo, and no doubt Unite was behind that too, Commandante Len McClusky | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
became personally responsible for booking all of tonight's guests, | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
thinking up all of tonight's questions, writing all of tonight's | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
scripts, and choosing all of tonight's wardrobe. Though when he | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
saw the shirt-watch twins, even he had second thoughts about the | :02:41. | :02:49. | |
takeover. Anyway, welcome to Unite This Week. And speaking of muppets | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
on strings, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two men stuck in terminal | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
decline. Think of them as the Edward Snowden and President Morsi of late | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
night political chat. I speak, of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" | :03:00. | :03:10. | |
:03:10. | :03:14. | ||
Johnson, and #sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo. Your moment of | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
the week? Talking of airport terminal decline, President Evo | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
Morales this week set out from Moscow to go back to his homeland of | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
Bolivia and found himself put down in Bolivia because France, Spain and | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
Italy would not allow him to fly through their airspace because they | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
thought he might have Mr Edward Snowden on board. This seemed to me | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
a perfectly reasonable suspicion, since Bolivia and Ecuador and | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
Venezuelan are three posturing countries that keep playing to the | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
anti-American gallery around the world, and they like to tease the | :03:50. | :03:57. | |
world that they might give refuge to Mr Edward Snowden. It has been met, | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
the downing of his plane in Vienna, with the most amazing outcry from | :04:01. | :04:09. | |
South America. The president of Venezuelan has said it is -- the | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
president of Argentina, not a great friend of ours, she kicked up a | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
great fuss. I must say, I found the fact that he had to land in Vienna | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
pretty amusing. It has tickled your fancy, hasn't it? Mine is the news | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
about the reopening of the case into the disappearance of Madeleine | :04:31. | :04:38. | |
McCann. The Portuguese had all but closed the file. The family paid to | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
get the Portuguese file and page to get it translated. Then they had to | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
convince the UK police to investigate. That has very rarely | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
happened. And not just our own police force, which would have been | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
Leicestershire, which is the petition, wherever they live, but | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
the Metropolitan police force. for out of the Home Office budget. | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
This was a British girl missing and it seemed everyone had given up. | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
They spent two years having a review, and now they are going to | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
reopen the investigation and it looks a very positive step forward. | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
Remarkable. She might still be alive. We shall see. | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
Now, it's just over two years since the Arab Spring reached Egypt, | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
leading to the fall of a dictator, the liberation of the Muslim | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
Brotherhood, and the election of the first democratic leader in the | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
nation's 5,000 year history, who happened to come from said Muslim | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
Brotherhood. But only a year after Mohamed Morsi won his presidential | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
majority, he now finds himself, and many of his supporters, under house | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
arrest, the military dictating political events and the country on | :05:39. | :05:49. | |
a knife-edge. So where now for the Arab world's biggest power, and what | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
will it take to keep the peace? We turned to Egyptian-born television | :05:53. | :06:03. | |
:06:03. | :06:22. | ||
producer Ash Atalla. This is his the streets of Egypt this week. The | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
country's first elected president thrown out by the Army after | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
millions of Egyptians took to the streets in protest. Impressive | :06:30. | :06:40. | |
:06:40. | :06:41. | ||
scenes, yes, but perhaps not such a big surprise. I was born in Cairo, | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
and I still have family there who I visit. When I was last in town, you | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
could sense things were bubbling over. Tensions were rising and talk | :06:51. | :07:00. | |
of a second revolution was in the air. The price of food is going up, | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
transport is gridlocked and rubbish goes uncollected. Driving around | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
Cairo, buildings are crumbling and there is a feeling of lawlessness in | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
the air. It is a breakdown of society. If my relatively | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
middle-class family are finding it hard, who knows how the rest are | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
managing. The former President Morsi was thrown out after only one year | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
in power, so it is not fair to blame him for everything, but his | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
priorities were wrong. He spent too much time trying to force through | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
Islamic law and not enough time worrying about the economy and | :07:33. | :07:41. | |
tourism. And whilst people are calling what happened this week and | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
military coup, I don't think that tells the whole story. In this | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
case, the military were not acting in isolation. Instead, they were | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
responding to the millions of people on the streets. Yes, President Morsi | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
was democratically elected, but having been so, he betrayed the | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
needs of the people and followed too narrow an agenda. You cannot turn | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
around the country like Egypt in a year, maybe not even five. But until | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
that Acis gets sorted out, I believe Egypt will remain a restless place. | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
-- until the basic gets sorted. The next leader needs to sort out the | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
streets, create jobs, and until they do so, the people of Egypt should | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
not be satisfied. From the shisha garden in west | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
London to our own little garden, always full of hot air, in the heart | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
of Westminster, Ash Atalla, welcome to the programme. Thank you for | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
having me. Isn't the danger that you have created a dreadful precedent | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
for a fledgling democracy, which is that if you do not like the | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
government commies and the military? Egypt has essentially taken the | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
opportunity to reboot the revolution. It is hard to get it | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
right first time. I think they were slightly tricked into the agenda | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
that the Muslim Brotherhood offered them. I think he came to power on a | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
ticket of inclusion, and there are many factions in Egypt. Having | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
seized power, he was like a child having too many sweets. It honestly | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
went to his head. I do not think he gave much of a careful what the | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
nation needed. You say it is a reboot, and that is what the people | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
in the streets would like to see as well, but can we be sure of that? | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
The Army is the most powerful institution in Egypt. The Army ran | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
in Egypt under Mubarak, and under Nasser as well. Why can we be sure | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
they will give it up and put it back on the democratic road? I do not | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
think Egypt could afford another three years of this not working. | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
That is what people here forget. There is a ticking clock because the | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
country is in sharp and fast decay. People say, is democracy not about | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
waiting until the incumbent has had their time and then putting them | :10:03. | :10:13. | |
out? I honestly do not think everyday people have that luxury, | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
because they are struggling to eat, businesses are going down the pan, | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
you cannot move around the country, it is in turmoil. You cannot get | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
diesel, and for years is a long time to watch your life fall apart. | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
have also sent a signal to the Muslim Brotherhood and it's like | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
throughout the Arab world, that next time you get elected into power, | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
shut down the rest quickly, or they will remove you. I do not even think | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
the revolution is necessarily along religious lines. 90% of Egypt is | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
Muslim. This was not about Muslim against Christian. That was not my | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
point. What I was saying was that if you are like the Muslim Brotherhood, | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
or even more extreme, the signal you have sent is that if you get into | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
power, do not allow the Army, the opposition to get on. Close them | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
down the moment you get into power. I disagree. The signal they have | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
sent is, if you come into power and you are too hard line for what the | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
people want, they will not tolerate it. You cannot get away with that. | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
It is a difficult problem for the West, as we look in on this, because | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
we are meant to be against military coup is in democracies, and yet it | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
is quite clear that this is a popular move. The West needs to | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
understand its own interests. It seems to me that we have had a | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
rather Boy Scout attitude to foreign policy, which is that we have | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
supported the creation of democracy in all these places without | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
understanding what it may lead to. Now we find ourselves not able to | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
condemn the coup because we are really against Islamism, and we are | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
afraid that the Muslim Brotherhood was imposing Islamism in Egypt. I | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
think if we properly understand our national interest, they are that we | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
are against Islamism. It is against our interests that Islamism should | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
succeed in Egypt, in Syria, or in Turkey for that matter. The | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
extraordinary thing is that the two regimes that were successful at | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
suppressing the Muslim Brotherhood were Mubarak in Egypt and Assad in | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
Syria, and we played a part in the first and are trying to bring down | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
the second. Our foreign policy position is confused. Unlike William | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
Hague and the foreign office line, and the Prime Minister, you'd think | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
we should support the coup. You think we should say we are happy | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
this has happened. That is more or less what the West is saying. | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
President Obama says he wants to see the return of a democratic | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
government. Not the democratic government. When push has come to | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
shove, let's take Obama as a perfect case, he is refusing to call this a | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
coup. He is refusing to cut off the aid. He is refusing to say he wants | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
the elected government back in office. He understands that what he | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
really wants is to oppose Islamism, even if that involves a coup. | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
think the world, the West certainly, once a more moderate | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
government in place. That is what the Egyptian people thought they | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
were getting, and that is why, for that reason alone can that is why he | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
has been ousted. Egypt has been around for about 5000 years of | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
recorded history. And it has never had a democracy, in that 5000 years, | :13:39. | :13:49. | |
:13:49. | :13:49. | ||
never. Highly unlikely they would get it right in two years. Very | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
unlikely. But s disagree with Michael here. If Islamism cannot | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
take power through democratic means, then the danger is that the | :14:00. | :14:09. | |
militants - I mean this is a party that the Islam brotherhood looked to | :14:09. | :14:16. | |
create the kind of Government - I agree they didn't do it. There is a | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
mixture of intransigence and incompetence from Morsi. But for the | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
government to step in and say 48-hours when they could have | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
stepped in and said something's got to change and when you could have | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
been given longer to do what he said he was going to do in the first | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
place and didn't do, there was no lower house still in place in the | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
first place in the country, the constitution was a mistake. That | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
could have been amended but to say you are looking for another Algiers, | :14:42. | :14:50. | |
that's the problem. It led to years of... What is your response? Easy | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
wonder if the Army thought that he's going to ask us to sort this out | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
because that would be the next thing. If there's 20 million people | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
on the streets, you would imagine Morsi was going to say to the Army | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
leaders, please get these people home, please help me solve this. The | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
Army generals have probably looked around and said, I don't fancy this, | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
there is a lot of angry people out there, they are not going to go home | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
and we'll lose our own men and have to kill a lot of the people. I | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
wonder if they didn't have the stomach for the fight. The danger, | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
and it's a dangerer for a fledgling democracy that it's the streets that | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
have changed the government. It's not a vote or Parliament, the | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
streets have changed the government, just as they changed Mubarak last | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
time. That doesn't necessarily lead to Parliamentary democracy? I know, | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
but they are desperate and this is a the point I'm making. The people on | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
the streets are desperate. When I was last in Egypt, you can sense a | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
lawlessness in the air and the sense that ordinary people can't afford to | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
eat. You can look around and the towns are crumbling. Crime rates | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
have shot up? Yes and when you are hungry and angry and have no way of | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
living, you do all you can. They are a largely uneducated nation, so it's | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
not as if they are sitting around having intellectual arguments. | :16:18. | :16:28. | |
:16:28. | :16:28. | ||
see how the Army is going to try to reduce crime, but not produce food? | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
That's not the current government's fault. That's years and years of | :16:33. | :16:40. | |
neglect. The egg timer's run out. How do you think it's going to end? | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
You know, I think there are going to be years of restlessness, but | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
instead of talking about the constitution and education, whoever | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
comes in, they need to get people back to work and to look at the | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
economy. Whoever comes in, that's a very clear, not a simple, but a very | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
clear line they have to follow. Thank you for being with us. Thanks | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
for having me. It may be late, but we are open all hours which is | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
fitting for a nation of shopkeepers. Speaking of which, waiting in the | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
wings, the former Head of Marks & Sparks, Stuart Rose, he's whatter to | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
talk business, politics and the Bank of England. If you think you have | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
the moves like Jagger or Portillo, you can always show them off on the | :17:24. | :17:34. | |
Twitter, the fleece back and the interweb dance floor. | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
An election two years away should force its way on to the agenda here | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
in Westminster. Tom Watson resign today and there was Ed Ed Miliband | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
thinking his biggest headache this week was leaving his briefing notes | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
for Prime Minister's Questions in a Westminster loo. He'd obviously run | :17:57. | :18:06. | |
out of loo paper. This is Victoria Derbyshire's round-up of the week. | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
It's an exciting place, the Westminster village. Always some | :18:11. | :18:21. | |
:18:21. | :18:34. | ||
shenanigans going on. The thing is, One thing that's true about life out | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
here, you have to keep your eye on the Jones's, keep your eye on the | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
giddy social climb. Politicians are always saying they are not paid as | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
much as so-and-so up the street and you can only afford to live in | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
London if you are a Russian oligarch or banker. But there's always an | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
exception. The public would find it impossible to understand, | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
particularly the millions in the public sector whose pay is only | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
increasing by 1%, they would find it impossible to understand that their | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
Parliamentary representatives at a time like this would be receiving | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
pay increases far in excess of that 1%. The job of making sure people | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
don't step out of line and do what they shouldn't - oops - is the job | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
of the Police Service. They can only be a community Police Service if | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
they work on behalf of everyone. Theresa May announced a consultation | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
this week on the controversial use or overuse of stop and search. It | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
comes a week after claims that undercover officers tried to smear | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
the family of teenager Stephen Lawrence after his racist murder. | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
want to see stop and search used only when it's needed. I want to see | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
higher search to arrest ratios and better community engagement. | :19:48. | :19:58. | |
:19:58. | :20:01. | ||
# I want to turn the thing upside down... # | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
There are plenty of people who want to visit our fare shores and soak up | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
the rich cultural life of London. That's not the only reason they want | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
to come here, according to the Health Secretary. He's announced a | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
crackdown on health tourism. What price xenophobia Tweeted a certain | :20:18. | :20:25. | |
lady of the purple sofa. Oh yeah, she's Shadow Public Health Minister | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
now isn't she? It's a subject that goes down well with Tory | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
backbenchers and David Cameron will be hoping they'll be hanging on his | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
every word. As a doctor once had to listen incredulously to a patient | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
explain via a translator that she only discovered she was nine months | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
pregnant on arrival at Terminal 3 Heathrow, I was very pleased to hear | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
the Secretary of State for Health's statement tourism statement today. | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
hoped there would be all party support for it, but Labour's Health | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
Minister said it was xenophobic. We'll oppose the sensible change | :21:03. | :21:11. | |
which people will roundly support. Mr Hunt wants it made clear that | :21:11. | :21:21. | |
:21:21. | :21:28. | ||
visitors from outside the EU will houses is that you can always hear | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
what your neighbours are up to. Normally it's Dave and his | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
neighbours having a domestic. But there's a huge row reverberating all | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
the way from Falkirk. It may be that Ed can't choose his own house mates, | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
particularly if they are paying the rent or buying the bread or keeping | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
the fridge stocked with milk. can't have a go at the vested | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
interest of the Tory party if we don't clear our own house. That's | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
just a fact of life and we have done over the years and we must do so | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
here. For most, it's a bit arcane, the detail of what Unite are | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
supposed to have done. No matter, David Cameron was delighted to | :22:06. | :22:14. | |
suggest over and over that the McCluskey tail was wagging the dog. | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
Of course, it hasn't been praised by Len McCluskey and Unite. Len | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
McKlausty who gave him the job. The press release, Mr Speaker, how Unite | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
plans to change the Labour Party! I know you are paid to shout by Unite, | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
but calm down a bit. This is what it says. "We give millions of pounds to | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
the party, the relationship has to change. We want a firmly class-base | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
and left-wing general election campaign". Ouch. Isn't it meant to | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
be questions to the Prime Minister. ? Oh well, it's a topsy-turvy world. | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
This is a Prime Minister who Haddiners for donors in Downing | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
Street. He gave a tax cut to his Christmas card list and brought Andy | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
Coulson into the heart of Downing Street. The idea that he's lecturing | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
us about ethics takes double standards to a whole new level. | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
Whatever the sound and fury in the Commons, it's the perception of Ed's | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
links with the unions that could prove most damaging, reminding us of | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
the soap opera storiline when Ed beat his brother to the leadership | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
with the packing of the union vote. I spoke to Tom Watson on Tuesday. He | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
felt he was thinking about his position. I said we should consider | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
that. I calm to the conclusion at lunch time today that it was right | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
that he went. I spoke to him and said that. See, I told you. Never a | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
dull moment in our little village. And it's bound to get even more | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
interesting as we head towards the race for the most important address | :23:48. | :23:56. | |
of them all. Cut will! ! | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
That wasn't Victoria's home. She hasn't had a huge BBC pay off yet. | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
She was filming at the Dalston house, an artwork commission bed I | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
the Barbican, free to visit until 4th August. You would have to be | :24:14. | :24:23. | |
brave go along. Alp, explain why Tom Watson has resigned? Yes. Falkirk | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
looks very much like someone was bucking the system, trying to | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
distort the election process signing up members. Indeed, there was a rule | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
apparently that I didn't know existed that unions can pay the | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
firstees subscriptions for Labour Party members. They were doing that | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
sometimes without the knowledge of the individual who was joining up to | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
try to distort... Why was that?The election process to get a certain | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
candidate elected. That certain candidate works for Tom Watson and | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
the investigation is going into the Unite union whose General Secretary | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
is Len McCluskey who's an old friend of Tom Watson. I think Tom Watson | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
thought, this is looking too much like I'm part of this story and | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
decided to step aside. It's the right thing to do. Fingerprints are | :25:15. | :25:23. | |
all over it? We'll wait and see what the investigation comes up with. | :25:23. | :25:30. | |
Whatever other reason to resign? Even if his fingerprints aren't all | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
over, this it looks very much like they are. It likes as though the | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
person working in the office is your candidate being selected in this | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
way. I think we could file that under D for difficult. Given that | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
it's bleeding obvious, why did it take two days for Mr Miliband to | :25:48. | :25:55. | |
work out if Mr Watson should resign? I guess he was reluctant to, without | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
the evidence, I mean he did stop the election process straightaway. Not | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
too sure whether he still knows what the final outcome is. He offered to | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
resign two days ago. There is some doubt as to whether - fair enough to | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
say look, we don't know the ins and outs of this yet - there was some | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
evidence that it was the Falkirk party rather than the chairman of | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
the Falkirk party's's been suspended rather than the Unite union. I | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
suppose he wanted to see all the evidence. His spin doctor's put it | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
about after the event today that Mr Watson was effectively fired? | :26:36. | :26:43. | |
Andrew, you are telling me news. I saw Ed Miliband say he's resigned. | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
Tom Watson on the news tonight has resigned. If he was fired... No, you | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
know how spin works, they don't really say that, they kind of imply | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
that this was... Because what they were to counteract by putting it | :26:57. | :27:04. | |
about that this was the slap of firm opposition is the weak, weak, weak | :27:04. | :27:14. | |
:27:14. | :27:16. | ||
Mr Planned. That ease what they want to counteract? -- Mr Miliband. | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
He's seen this report for more than two days. He said in that interview, | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
in the clip we ran tonight, and I read the whole transcript, the | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
report clearly concludes that there was a sort sort of mass membership | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
that people were being signed up and the single cheque for them all was | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
being handed over. It's quite clear that that's what was happening. | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
said that, yes. When you see that, you know Mr Watson's link has been | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
pushed with Mr McCluskey and Unite. Whiled you take two days to make | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
your mind up? Look, he's resigned and it's the right thing for him to | :27:53. | :28:01. | |
do. How damaging is it for Labour for this to come back? Damaging. I | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
came back through the militant years. You could turn up at a | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
selection meeting with a pocketful of union votes. That was the one | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
union one vote time. That was the start of the process, not tend, | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
there were other things that needed to change. We know from the report | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
that was leaked that they were out to dominate the selection process in | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
41 constituencies, they have three officials working - their own report | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
- they have three officials working full-time on this, they describe it | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
as "a furious operation" and they are prepared to spend �10,000 on | :28:43. | :28:53. | |
:28:53. | :28:56. | ||
each of these operations to get are looking to get people with | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
working backgrounds into Parliament, and many people would say yes to | :29:00. | :29:10. | |
that on all sides of the house. The second bit of it, I have had | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
arguments with people like Len McCluskey four-year is, the second | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
part of it is the view that the reason we did not win elections is | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
because we are not left wing enough. And actually, if you go on a | :29:21. | :29:28. | |
class taste thing, we are the only people you want. Working-class | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
people who have aspiration and get their kids to do well and go to | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
university and qualify, their kids, by this viewpoint, are not fit to be | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
Labour candidates. They might have been sons or daughters of postmen, | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
but they now have university degrees and other jobs. It is very | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
depressing. You are our man on these labour issues. What do you make of | :29:51. | :29:58. | |
how Mr Miliband has handled it? did not think his interview was | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
great. It was the moment when he said he was incredibly angry, whilst | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
sounding not particularly angry. I get the feeling, you are not sorry, | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
you are just sorry you got found out. Sadly, it looks as if full kirk | :30:13. | :30:19. | |
is not particularly isolated. This embarrassment about how Ed Miliband | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
won the leadership had gone away, and this idea that he is the puppet | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
of the union is coming back now is really bad for him, I think. He is | :30:30. | :30:38. | |
not, is he? That is how the perception is created. A year ago, | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
with the report about public sector pay restraint, all hell broke loose | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
from people like Len McCluskey and he stuck to his guns. He said, we | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
will use the 2015-16 spending round as our starting point. Nothing that | :30:52. | :31:00. | |
he has done has been a sop to the unions. We have seen a much more | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
aggressive Prime Minister at Prime Minister 's questions, batting back | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
questions, trying to put the leader of the opposition on the spot, not | :31:07. | :31:14. | |
quite what PMQ 's is about, but that is what he is doing. I would suggest | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
we now see the hand of Lyndon Crosby, the new campaign leader, who | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
will take the Tories into the next campaign, in this more aggressive, | :31:23. | :31:29. | |
targeted approach. I think we do. I thought was a model performance in | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
that he repeated the point about Unite again and again. David Cameron | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
has not been good at repeating points. If you want to get something | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
across in politics you have to say until everybody is fed up of hearing | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
it. But I think it is coincidental with what Tories regard as a | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
seachange the political landscape, Labour backing down on schools | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
reform, backing down on public spending, the National Health | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
Service being such a mess, which put them on the back foot, and now the | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
Unite issue. So it has been a pretty good four-week period for the | :32:03. | :32:10. | |
Tories. I think it surprised them to find themselves in this position. | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
Moving on, should MPs get a pay rise? Objectively, MPs are | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
underpaid. But whether you can actually give them an enormous, ten | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
grand or more pay rise in the current climate, you might term | :32:26. | :32:34. | |
Parliament Square into Tahrir Square. It would be so provocative. | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
By what objective criteria are MPs underpaid? Sarah Wollaston, who was | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
a GP, had the guts to point out that she took a �40,000 pay cut to become | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
an MP. I took a huge pay cut to come and do this. D-Ream and we are very | :32:51. | :33:01. | |
:33:01. | :33:08. | ||
grateful. And we are very grateful. There is one camp that says, the pay | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
is about right, and another that says apply the recommendations, but | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
there are not many people in that camp, in the outside of Parliament. | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
I suspect their pay should be higher but I do not see any way they can | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
take it. They used to vote for their home page and then they were told | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
not to vote for it. And now they are told they cannot take the | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
recommendation from the independent body. Three votes for no pay rise. I | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
am sorry. Now, unlike the stiffs over on Today | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
or Newsnight, we're totally rock 'n' roll here on This Week. And as the | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
BBC's only political super-group, we know how to put on a show. As the | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
charismatic front man, I like to rock the mike. As the sharp-dressed | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
lead guitarist, Alan likes to wield the conversational axe. And as the | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
onstage backing dancer, hired largely for his pretty boy looks, | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
Michael's more than happy to shake his maracas and make the girls | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
scream. So when it comes to performing, in business or in | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
politics, just how much does star quality really matter? We've decided | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
to turn our amps up to 11, and find out, and put rock stars in this | :34:11. | :34:21. | |
:34:21. | :34:32. | ||
after 50 years in the business, and pulling a record crowd in the | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
process, proves rock stars do not get any bigger than the still | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
Rolling Stones, unless your name is Mark Carney and you are the new | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
governor of the Bank of England. His arrival at Threadneedle Street this | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
week was greeted with knicker throwing delight. Elvis has well and | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
truly into the building. At Old Trafford, the new manager has even | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
bigger boots to fill, yet Manchester United decided against hiring a rock | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
star manager, judging there were enough superstars out on the pitch. | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
So, are charismatic leader is the key to success, or do they end up | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
being more trouble than they are worth? Would politics be better | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
served by leaders with genuine star quality, rather than the dull middle | :35:16. | :35:23. | |
managers we seem to have today? SAS have a famous motto. Who dares | :35:23. | :35:33. | |
:35:33. | :35:35. | ||
wins. We dare. We will win. If only they made them like they used to! | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
They don't make them like they used to. Thank God for that. Stuart Rose | :35:40. | :35:47. | |
is with us. Looking like a rock star with your scarf. I have just come | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
from a wedding and I am proud to wear it to celebrate a friend's | :35:50. | :35:58. | |
wedding. You can wear what you want. As long as it is not his shirt. We | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
used to talk of the rockstar Chief Executive, and you were regarded as | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
a rock star Chief Executive. They have gone out of favour. We live in | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
a 24-hour world. What happens in Cairo or Los Angeles is known a | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
minute later, and if you are a leader you have to be able to react | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
to all of the inputs coming towards you. It is a 21st century need. You | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
cannot avoid it. You have to be good at media, whether spoken media, | :36:26. | :36:33. | |
visual, social, and that is part and parcel of the job. From that has | :36:33. | :36:40. | |
come the cult of personality. do not really know, the public in | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
general, do not really know who the Chief Executive 's of all of the | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
FTSE 100 companies are. Well, they know more than they used to know. | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
They do not know your successor. They probably do. I can break it | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
into sectors. I used to ask journalists why they wrote about | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
Marks and Spencer and they said business is a subject that readers | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
are interested in and people relate to the shop. They used to use it as | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
an example. But they wrote about it because of you as well. I had an | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
unusual start. In my first week there was a battle with Philip Green | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
about the ownership, in private or public. We had to ramp it up and it | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
became personalised. Did he try to hit you? People me from my car and | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
made accusations, yes. I forgot about that. Is it more important to | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
have the front man or the backing band? A front man is only as good as | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
the backing band that he has got. The Americans have an expression, | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
all hat and no cattle. There is no point in having the hat if you have | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
not also got the capital. If you are Mark Carney, coming to the Bank of | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
England, clearly, he has to know a lot about economics, has to have a | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
track record, has to have all the skills necessary to get people to | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
deliver what they have to deliver and reform the banking sector. But | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
he also needs to sell the story. In our world, that is an extra skill | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
that he needs, and he seems to have it. But it can work against you | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
because if it goes wrong, it goes wrong big-time. Are we not building | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
him up for a great fall? Possibly. When Mervyn King took over, it years | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
for him to be well-known but this man is like the Mick Jagger of | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
central banking. It can only go downhill. There is a danger that you | :38:41. | :38:51. | |
:38:51. | :38:51. | ||
build up expectations. Enoch Powell always said that political careers | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
ended in tears. What do you think of the way we are building up Mark | :38:56. | :39:02. | |
Carney to be this Superman from Canada? I think it probably starts | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
with the government. The government is so worried about growth, jobs and | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
what is going to happen to interest rates, that I think they feel they | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
have a golf bag with no clubs in it. The one thing they are hoping | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
for is that Mark Carney can pull something out of the fire. I think | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
this build-up of Mark Carney as a superstar has emanated from a | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
feeling that ministers are putting so much reliance on him. On the | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
general point about superstars, I think they are good for periods of | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
change your crisis. I think of Margaret Thatcher and Winston | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
Churchill. Extraordinarily in history, the government that | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
achieved most in terms of social change was the post-war Labour | :39:41. | :39:49. | |
government, which was led by a managerial type. The opposite of a | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
rockstar. A bank manager of the old-fashioned sort. He just got on | :39:54. | :40:01. | |
with it. I can understand the superstar, chief executive, | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
politician, but Governor of the Bank of England, I would think that | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
public want something different. Clement Attlee type figure might be | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
more reassuring than a George Clooney superstar. What is the most | :40:13. | :40:21. | |
important word today for people, trust. Without being too flippant | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
commie cannot trust teachers in some places, you cannot trust the police | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
because they record on the serrations, you cannot trust your | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
bank manager, so people want to trust people. I suspect in Mark | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
Carney, the expectations are very high. They are genuine | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
expectations, so let's hope he does deliver. Because the backlash will | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
be difficult if he does not. demands of the modern age force | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
rockstar types into positions you would not associate with being a | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
rockstar, whether Governor of the Bank of England, leader of political | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
parties. As you say, you have to perform well in the media to get on | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
in a particular profession. And if you do, the media take more interest | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
in you. And people like big personalities. They complain about | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
the grey, the Dahl, every politician today, with two exceptions here, | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
every politician comes from the same mould, on the left and the right. | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
Absolutely true. We have seen high-profile examples of people who | :41:23. | :41:32. | |
were very high end up fallen very low. Are you looking over here? | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
is the problem with the approach in politics and public life. Most rock | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
stars seem to go on forever. But in public life, quite often the | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
faster, the further you rise and become a rockstar type, the more | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
brutal the fall. It is interesting, the question about why they deliver. | :41:53. | :42:00. | |
Rock stars keep delivering the same old stuff, the old favourites. | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
just say that Boris is to watch out for that, because he is being built | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
up into this huge charismatic figure. To be successful anywhere, | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
as Stewart said, you need the backing band, whether the cabinet, | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
or people working around him. You cannot do in government what you can | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
do in a more ceremonial role as the Mayor of London. Boris is a really | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
charismatic guy and I want to see him built up and built up and built | :42:27. | :42:36. | |
up. Tony Blair was a rockstar politician. He was, and so was | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
Margaret Thatcher. And in a 24-7 media, people are looking much more | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
now to the Prime Minister, rather than the cabinet. Clement Attlee, | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
famously when he was being interviewed, the BBC asked if he had | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
anything to say and he said, no. You would never get away with that now. | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
Now, you do not answer the question but you speak for three minutes. Not | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
you personally! If you could come back in this life, would you come | :43:08. | :43:18. | |
:43:18. | :43:20. | ||
back as yourself or Mick Jagger? Mick Jagger, he is the lead singer | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
of a rock band. I thought it was a difficult philosophical question. I | :43:27. | :43:34. | |
would say myself, but I hope I mean that. Jagger. Paul McCartney. | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
shopping in Marks & Spencer? Yes. That's your lot for tonight folks, | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
but not for us, because it's Abu Qatada's going away party at | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
Annabel's, and we're all off to say our final goodbyes to one of This | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
Week's oldest and most loyal viewers. Hello, Mrs Q. Don't wait | :43:49. | :43:56. |