02/11/2017 This Week


02/11/2017

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Tonight on This Week,

who is watching whom?

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Question Time, babe.

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David Dimbleby.

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He's good looking, you know.

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Is anyone watching us?

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This programme's complete rubbish.

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This Week?

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I thought they ditched

that long time ago.

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Edwina Currie casts her eyes over

the Westminster sex scandals.

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It may be gripping viewing,

and some of it is serious,

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but at the moment it's looking

like a low-budget movie that's

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turning into a witchhunt.

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What do you think of

Harriet and Michael?

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I liked Harriet's memoirs.

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Wha' gwan?

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Pod cake Andy Parsons

reviews the political week.

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We are kicking up a storm

at the This Week bakery,

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where we'll be revealing the winners

and losers of the last seven days.

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I wouldn't eat that.

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That's ridiculous.

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You know how to get

egg white, don't you?

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You break the egg white

and you pour it from one

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to the other, one to the other.

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Has the BBC pinched Bake Off?

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I prefer the Channel 4

version anyway.

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And funny girl Shazia Mirza thinks

people should be less offended

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by what's on the box.

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Try not to be offended

by everything you see on TV.

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I'm parched.

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Put the kettle on.

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OK.

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It's on too late anyway.

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Why do they put it on so late for?

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Cha!

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I'm going to my bed.

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Have we been taken off air?

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Evenin' all, welcome to This Week,

live from the heart of the Palace

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of Pestminster, where we've been

forced to create our very

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own Safe Space to shield us

from the unwanted attentions

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of sundry politicians with wandering

hands and an unhealthy

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obsession with knees.

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Yes, this is an oasis of safety,

a veritable refuge for snowflakes

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like us of a nervous disposition.

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Not a statute in sight to upset us.

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Never mind to tear down.

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And, of course, no jokes.

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Regular viewers may conclude that no

jokes is already one of this

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show's most distinctive hallmarks.

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But we want to make it clear that

jokes are an invidious weapon

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of repression in the hands

of the powerful and

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will not be tolerated.

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Plus, we can't think of any.

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Tonight's proceedings

will be conducted with

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Presbyterian solemnity -

though the BBC has asked me

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to point out other miserable

religions are available.

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Speaking of misery, I'm joined

on the sofa tonight by two guests

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that you could never mistake

for a ray of sunshine.

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They don't do weddings,

birthdays or bar mitzvah's

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but if you need folks to heighten

the gloom at a funeral,

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they're the best.

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I speak, of course of Harriet

#littlepinkbus Harman

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and Michael #choochoo Portillo.

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Welcomed to you both. Your moment of

the busy week?

You might be

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surprised, the centenary of the bell

for declaration, which was when the

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Foreign Secretary first declared

that an's policy was to provide a

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homeland for the Jewish people. The

commemorations have not been

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attended this week by the Labour

Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, which

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is remarkable in itself, but it made

me reflect the extent to which the

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reputation of Israel around the

world, really, has changed during my

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lifetime. In the 1967 war, most

people saw Israel as the underdog

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and felt that they were very hard

done by. Now, many people take the

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opposite point of view. Why is that?

I think it may be because of

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proportional representation.

How do

you work that out?

In their system,

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tiny parties are represented in

parliament and extremists, who

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favour the development of the

settlements, who take the hardest

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line on foreign policy, have two be

included in governments because of

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the proportional representation

system, and so the foreign policy

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and the settlements policy of

government is determined by these

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fringe groups, these extremists, and

it's most unfortunate.

From the bow

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for declaration to proportional

representation. You wouldn't get

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that on Newsnight, Harriet.

One of

the best arguments against

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proportional representation. I think

this week has been the moment. I

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think the tide is really turning and

I think the moment is about women

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not having to put up with being

preyed on by men at work, powerful

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men forcing themselves on younger,

junior women, people having to put

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up with homophobic and sexism at

work, and I think Michael Fallon

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losing his job as Secretary of State

last night is all highly

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significant. And I think that it's

really in the wake of the Harvey

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Weinstein revelations. Suddenly a

whole load of complaints that women

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had thought they just had to put up

with are now out there. And I think

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it has some way to go, but people

hate what is happening but it is

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actually alter the good and I think

it will be a positive change.

We

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will spend a bit of on that tonight.

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There are echoes of the MPs'

expenses scandal in Westminster's

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current meltdown over sexual

harassment and worse.

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One minister has already resigned,

another is being investigated,

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scores of other political names

are being bandied about,

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sometimes with corroboration,

often with no evidence whatsoever.

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It's become a good old

indiscriminate feeding frenzy,

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in which inappropriate behaviour,

sexual harassment and rape

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are being elided into one continuum,

doing the real victims of appalling

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acts no favours.

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But it is also a watershed moment.

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What was acceptable,

or thought to be only of minor

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concern, will be no more.

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New standards will be expected

from those in positions of power

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and new concern and procedures

for those mistreated

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or abused by the powerful.

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A belated move into the 21st

century or an overreaction?

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Edwina Currie was an MP

for over a decade.

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This is her Take of the Week.

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Westminster has got the tongues

wagging, the website is buzzing and

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Twitter in a Twitter. But in my

experience, it was never some kind

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of modern Sodom and Gomorrah. Why?

Because by their nature politicians

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can be the most boring of people,

both men and women. Their ardour is

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more likely to be about taxes and

social welfare, and they are more

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likely to get agitated about

universal credit and select

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committee chairmanship than about

whether the secretary is wearing

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stockings. There are workplace

relationships. Some of them are

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famous. I'm thinking, of course, of

Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott. They

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are passionate about their politics,

and they want to share the euphoria

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of success, or the despair of

failure, with someone who

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understands. It may be a colleague

who is pouring that glass of wine in

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sympathy, and not the person waiting

at home. The lack of etiquette today

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about how to make such an approach

is proving harmful. There is a

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universe of difference between a

clumsy but unwanted pass and a

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sexual assault, or harassment, or

worse. Many of the allegations

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flying around in Westminster at the

moment are ancient. Some of them are

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consensus you will. A few involve

alcohol. And Westminster has a truly

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terrible history when it comes to

helping people who are our collects.

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-- who are alcoholic. But by

labelling all sexual approach in the

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workplace as unacceptable, we risk

two things. Firstly, ruining good

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men. And secondly, marginalising

those who really do suffer serious

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assaults, and they should be going

to the police.

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Edwina Currie joins us. Welcome.

Harriet, is it turning into a

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witchhunt?

Not at all. It is long

over Jude that things that have been

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swept under the carpet and women

have had to endure without any sense

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that they would be able to complain

and be fairly heard, and that if

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they did complain they would be

lambasted all over the newspapers, I

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think at last there is some sense of

fairness in all of this. The thing

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is that you go to work in order to

do a job and be treated as a

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colleague and be treated

professionally, not to be preyed on

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because you are younger, by some

older man who you feel you can't

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complain about because they are in a

senior position. I could not

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disagree more with you, Edwina,

about the idea that at stake is good

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men being lost. I think that what we

are going to have is a better

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working atmosphere.

Let Edwina

comeback.

I think we are getting a

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very unpleasant working atmosphere

in which, in many workplaces it's

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now almost impossible for one person

to make a comment to another person

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that is common about their

appearance, or even some good work

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they have done. Harriet, you were

Deputy Leader of your party, in a

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position to do something about this,

if you seriously believe that

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something needed doing. And yet some

of the complaints in the last week

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or two have been about members of

your own party, and the feeling they

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were not being properly dealt with.

I am all for dealing with proper

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complaints in a proper way. What

bothers me is that there does not

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seem to be any etiquette for how on

earth we might say to each other,

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you are looking very nice today, or

calm down, dear. Suddenly, it's

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being conflated into a sexual

attack. There is a huge difference,

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and that attitude that says all men

are basically predators, I really,

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really don't hold with that and I

really feel that it's very, very

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destructive.

I do think anybody is

saying all men are predators but

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unless we sort out those who are

predatory in Westminster, then

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everyone gets stained with that.

So

do that. Dismiss them, deal with

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them properly. Don't choose them as

parliamentary candidates, Harriet.

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The way to deal with it is to have a

complaints system that has an

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independent element, so that people

know they will be heard fairly, and

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also anonymity. There has to be

anonymity for complainants.

Wait a

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minute. That can then be a charter

for people who want to damage

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someone, or who are jealous, or who

have been rejected? One of the

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problems in Parliament is that you

do have people who fall in love with

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their MP, fall in love with somebody

who is powerful, and then they can

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be an absolute pain. And then you

are worried. How on earth do you

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reject them without them making a

whacking great complaint that can

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destroy you and your career, when

you are innocent?

There is one thing

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which is about when men are in a

powerful position and it is hard as

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a junior...

Is it only men?

Let me

finish. When men are in a junior --

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senior position and women are junior

and feel they cannot complain, but

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the other thing is tribal loyalty,

don't make a fuss, don't complain

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about your own party.

That is what

Bex Bailey was told, the young

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Labour woman.

Who is it who

overrules, who says party loyalty is

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more important?

I am saying there

are many reasons for a feeling of

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reluctance among younger women and

some men to report sexual predators

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because they feel it might be being

disloyal to their party.

Is it your

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feeling that there are lots of

sexual predators in Westminster,

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because it was never my feeling when

I was there?

Well, I think there are

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a lot of people who have had bad

experience and who have been preyed

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on in an unwanted way and who feel

there is nothing they can do about

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it. That is why will we need to do

is, on a cross-party basis, ensure

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we have a proper complaints system

which is independent and gives

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anonymity.

Soap people can make

anonymous complaints? How would you

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check the veracity?

What I mean is

reporting restrictions, so you can't

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be splashed all over the newspapers,

because people will not come forward

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if that is going to be the only

thing anybody ever knows about them

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in future. If you complain about a

minister, then you would be all over

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the newspapers.

So it would not be

anonymous. It would be confidential,

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is what you are saying?

It would not

be reported.

Let me hear from

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Michael. You have both had a good

run. Hold on, Harriet, let Michael

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have a say. I know he is just a man,

but give him a few minutes. What is

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your take on this?

Well, I suspect

there is a problem and also the

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great danger that in the hullabaloo

this will be taken too far, that

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very different sorts of issues will

be conflated together. I heard

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Edwina say that good men will be

lost. Michael Fallon, I think, is a

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very good man and I think he was

doing a good job and I think he was

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important to the government. I don't

own it what it is that's got him to

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resign.

Serial inappropriate

behaviour.

Yes. Because I once held

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his position, I would understand

that being alongside the Armed

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Forces Day after day, who have

extraordinarily high standards in

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almost everything, he would perhaps

apply to himself an extraordinarily

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high standard and that might be

appropriate. But it may be the case

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nonetheless a very good man has gone

down for a couple of mistakes,

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rather than a basic depravity.

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There are deep-seated cultural

issues in Westminster of power.

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Primarily still male power, which is

used inappropriately. Parliament

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doesn't have the procedures in

place. If you were a major company,

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if I was a multinational bank, they

have huge HR departments, procedures

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in place, Westminster has never done

that.

Andrew, there is a danger of

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assuming because there is an

imbalance of the sexes, there is an

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imbalance of power. We have 208

women MPs now, when we first

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started, there were 23. They are

still talking in the same way. One

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of the problems, there isn't an

extension of employment law to

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members of Parliament or to their

staff. They directly employ their

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staff. The rules have changed so

they cannot employ their wives in

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the way they used to, and that was a

very healthy thing to have in the

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past. That might need to change. But

it needs to change for any aspect of

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bullying comic needs to change for

all sorts of complaints to be

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resolved. There needs to be a

procedure that is broadly

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acceptable. I hate this idea,

because we have got a lot of blokes,

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there must be a lot of sexual

predator going on. I don't buy into

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it. If women behaved more like the

equals you would like them to be,

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Harriet and treated the men like

equals, you might find that gap

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doesn't exist?

I feel you are

another planet, Edwina Currie the

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nobody is saying they are all

predators, but there is clearly a

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problem.

Is there?

Yes there is. I

am sure Michael Fallon was pushed

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out by Theresa May, who actually, to

her credit, seems to want to have

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decent standards. There is a chance

now for the parties to get together

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to get over their tribal divisions

and say we want decent standards for

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everybody.

For example, if he put

his hand on Julia Hartley Brewer's

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like, that isn't an example of using

your power against somebody who is

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an inferior or dependent.

Journalists are very powerful people

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as well. It may be inappropriate and

foolish, but it doesn't represent

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what you are talking about, which is

the abuse of power, does it?

I don't

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think that necessarily, who knows,

Theresa May probably does and

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Michael Fallon...

My understanding

is, Michael Fallon could not give

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the Prime Minister and assurance

that more things wouldn't come out.

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I mentioned it because it is very

easy to fall into the idea that

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every one of these problems is about

an abuse of power. As Edwina said

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some may be consensual

relationships, some might be just

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folly, but those two need not surly

be an abuse of power.

It isn't Polly

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if you are Secretary of State.

It

wasn't, it is back in 2002 when you

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lot were in power.

You don't know

they aren't current.

Now you are

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possibly committing libel.

You

cannot condemn people on the basis

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of I suspect. It is not good enough,

Harriet.

If you let me finish my

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sentence...

No, I will exercise my

power. What is this about women

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being so weak and so useless. If

this gorgeous man puts his hand on

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my knee, I might tell him to push.

But I'm not to fall about. It would

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be my husband telling him to push.

Brief, final four, Harriet?

We are

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going to see change and it will be

the good. Sexual predation and

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sexual harassment going on in the

world outside Westminster, we can

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put our own house in order and

protect women outside as well.

The

0:19:290:19:34

danger is he might be behind the

curve?

Yes, this moment was the week

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was the tipping point. The Prime

Minister to her credit...

We are

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running out of time. In fact we are

well over so I will have to thank

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Edwina and move on.

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Now, it's late, Michael Fallon late.

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Or, as he's now known, Fallon Gone.

0:19:550:19:57

Speaking of bad wordplay,

writer and comedian Shazia Meeera

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has a black belt in verbal sparring.

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So she'll be shining our spotlight

on inappropriate jokes.

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Obviously, if she tries

to tell any, we'll dim

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the lights and cut the sound.

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Nothing can intrude on this

safest of safe spaces.

0:20:100:20:12

Including your inane comments.

0:20:120:20:13

But if you feel you can't help

yourself, then whiffle

0:20:130:20:18

away on the Tweeter, Fleecebook,

SnapNumpty and my new favourite

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social media site Yadda Yadda Yadda

@ I couldn't give a stuff.com.

0:20:210:20:27

It's not been a great week

for the public square.

0:20:270:20:30

Allegations of inappropriate

behaviour, sexual harassment and,

0:20:300:20:33

worst of all, rape have resonated

across continents and time zones,

0:20:330:20:36

from Hollywood to the House

of Commons, accompanied either

0:20:360:20:41

by belated mea culpas

or indignant denials.

0:20:410:20:43

Ministerial careers are in ruins,

TV series are being cancelled,

0:20:430:20:48

the air is thick with thespian

confessions and apologies.

0:20:480:20:50

Women, and some men,

who've bottled up terrible wrongs

0:20:500:20:55

for years are finally

finding their voice.

0:20:550:20:59

At least the Great British Bake Off

had a happy ending.

0:20:590:21:02

It was especially generous

of Pru Leith to lighten these dark

0:21:020:21:05

times by telling us the ending

before it had even finished.

0:21:050:21:11

Here's Andy Parsons with his amuse

bouche of the political week.

0:21:110:21:20

There was supposed to be

three of us in the final.

0:21:430:21:47

Molly the dog ate Andrew's

profiteroles and when I said

0:21:470:21:49

I couldn't get all the ingredients

because of Brexit, Michael

0:21:490:21:52

stormed off furiously.

0:21:520:21:56

The Westminster week has been

dominated by allegations of sexual

0:21:560:21:58

harassment and inappropriate

behaviour, by MPs

0:21:580:22:00

towards junior staff.

0:22:000:22:04

A stony-faced Prime Minister

listened to MPs debate

0:22:040:22:07

the problem, to a House,

where, for once, women

0:22:070:22:09

MPs outnumber the men.

0:22:090:22:18

As members of Parliament,

our constituents will be rightly

0:22:180:22:20

appalled at the thought that some

representatives in Parliament may

0:22:200:22:22

have acted in an entirely

inappropriate way towards others.

0:22:220:22:25

These reports risk bringing

all of our offices into disrepute.

0:22:250:22:30

She's right, there is

obviously a problem.

0:22:300:22:32

It's a good thing, actually that

it's been exposed and it

0:22:320:22:35

has to be dealt with.

0:22:350:22:38

No woman, or man, for that matter,

coming to work in this House should

0:22:380:22:41

be subjected to unwanted sexual

advances from those who are in

0:22:410:22:44

a position of power over them.

0:22:440:22:48

Away from Parliament,

but part of the same culture,

0:22:480:22:51

the most serious allegation was made

by Labour activist, Bex Bailey,

0:22:510:22:54

who said she'd been raped at a party

event and then discouraged

0:22:540:22:57

from reporting the attack.

0:22:570:23:00

I was seriously, sexually assaulted

at a Labour Party event by,

0:23:000:23:08

it wasn't an MP, but who was more

senior to me.

0:23:080:23:13

I told a senior member of staff.

0:23:130:23:17

It was suggested to me

that I not report it.

0:23:170:23:19

I was told that if I did,

it might damage me.

0:23:190:23:22

Meanwhile, a sex pest spreadsheet

of 40 Tory MPs is circulating.

0:23:220:23:28

High-profile names listed

include Rory Stewart,

0:23:280:23:31

Dominic Raab and the PM's de facto

deputy, Damian Green.

0:23:310:23:36

They all deny the claims.

0:23:360:23:39

But last night, Defence Secretary,

Michael Fallon, who is not

0:23:390:23:42

included on the spreadsheet,

resigned over separate allegations

0:23:420:23:46

about past behaviour.

0:23:460:23:49

There are people saying

today, Michael Fallon

0:23:490:23:52

was a safe pair of hands.

0:23:520:23:55

That seems very much

the wrong choice of words.

0:23:550:23:58

In recent days, allegations have

been made about MPs'

0:23:580:24:00

conduct, including my own.

0:24:000:24:02

Many of these allegations have been

false, but I realise that

0:24:020:24:05

in the past, I may have fallen below

the high standards that we require

0:24:050:24:10

of the Armed Forces,

that I have the honour to represent.

0:24:100:24:15

I have reflected now on my position

in government and I am

0:24:150:24:19

therefore resigning.

0:24:190:24:22

While the Commons takes a long,

hard look at itself,

0:24:220:24:24

the Lords can be cut down to size.

0:24:240:24:28

Proposals for a new,

'one in, two out rule',

0:24:280:24:32

and limiting new peers to 15-year

terms would make the Lords

0:24:320:24:35

smaller than the Commons.

0:24:350:24:38

Well, eventually.

0:24:380:24:42

But there's over 800 Lords.

0:24:420:24:44

How about one in, 700 out?

0:24:440:24:49

We know that the House is too big.

0:24:490:24:52

A smaller, more effective House

would be able to strengthen public

0:24:520:24:55

confidence and build support

for our vital, constitutional law.

0:24:550:24:58

It is now up to us.

0:24:580:25:04

As well as fewer Lords,

the country is going to have

0:25:040:25:07

to cope with fewer bankers.

0:25:070:25:08

FAKE SCREAM.

0:25:080:25:14

The Bank of England warned

this week that a no

0:25:140:25:17

deal Brexit could mean that 75,000

banking jobs would go.

0:25:170:25:19

Scaremongering is a strong word,

but I do think there is a pattern

0:25:190:25:22

at the Bank of England

and they ought to reconsider

0:25:220:25:25

and look at the opportunities

of Brexit, talk up the City

0:25:250:25:27

of London, talk up our financial

services expertise and help Britain

0:25:270:25:30

succeed across the whole world.

0:25:300:25:33

Meanwhile, remainers have whipped up

a posse to go and see the EU.

0:25:330:25:40

REPORTER:

What brings

you here today?

0:25:400:25:49

We're going to see Michel Barnier

and a few other people

0:25:490:25:51

in the European Commission.

0:25:510:25:52

REPORTER:

Are you

here to stop Brexit?

0:25:520:25:54

If only it were that easy, no,

no we're here just to get

0:25:540:25:57

a better understanding.

0:25:570:25:58

Some people suggesting

when it comes to a no deal,

0:25:580:26:01

if you're buying a house,

try suggesting no deal

0:26:010:26:03

and see how you get on.

0:26:030:26:04

In that scenario, you've

still got your old house.

0:26:040:26:06

We've set fire to our old house,

to burn down in two years' time.

0:26:060:26:10

HE COUGHS AND SMOKE ALARM BEEPS.

0:26:100:26:14

Although, some Jeremy Corbyn

supporters can stomach a no deal

0:26:140:26:18

if it means another election.

0:26:180:26:22

We have an exciting, real chance

for change in this country,

0:26:220:26:25

to reverse years of neglect

and build a better tomorrow.

0:26:250:26:30

Move forward with us,

or move over and get out of our way.

0:26:300:26:38

Len McCluskey, a man

who was elected on a 12% turnout.

0:26:380:26:42

Imagine having a party and only

12% of the people you'd

0:26:420:26:45

invited showing up.

0:26:450:26:47

It's like organising

your own Last Supper

0:26:470:26:49

and only Judas coming along.

0:26:490:26:53

To furnish his cred with the youth

vote, Jeremy Corbyn is set to appear

0:26:530:26:56

on celebrity Gogglebox tomorrow.

0:26:560:26:59

That does look quite nice.

0:26:590:27:01

It does look pretty good.

0:27:010:27:02

It's great, is that

garlic yoghurt as well?

0:27:020:27:04

I think it probably is.

0:27:040:27:05

That does look good.

0:27:050:27:07

Actually, you know what?

0:27:070:27:09

She's better than we are at this.

0:27:090:27:12

Yeah, OK.

0:27:120:27:13

At PMQs, Jeremy Corbyn

focused on tax evasion.

0:27:130:27:15

Our school budgets are being cut...

0:27:150:27:25

More people waiting

longer for treatment

0:27:250:27:29

on the National Health Service.

0:27:290:27:32

Does the Prime Minister think

it is acceptable that when it

0:27:320:27:35

comes to paying taxes,

there's one rule for the super-rich

0:27:350:27:38

another for the rest of us?

0:27:380:27:43

The top 1% of earners in this

country are paying 28%

0:27:430:27:46

of of the tax burden.

0:27:460:27:48

That is the highest percentage ever

under any government.

0:27:480:27:58

Mrs May told a chastened House

of Commons that a cross-party

0:27:590:28:02

approach was needed to tackle sexual

harassment, but no mention was made

0:28:020:28:05

of the sex pest spreadsheet.

0:28:050:28:06

But I can reveal the MP who is

on the spreadsheet, who has been

0:28:060:28:12

in a video with three males

in an extreme sex act, is...

0:28:120:28:18

KLAXON SOUNDS.

0:28:180:28:28

What?

0:28:280:28:30

Was I not supposed to

reveal it until later?

0:28:300:28:32

Oh, I'm terribly sorry,

I'm in a different time zone.

0:28:320:28:35

Thanks to the Rosalind

Miller bakery in London,

0:28:370:28:39

who bear no responsibility

for Andy's culinary efforts.

0:28:390:28:41

Andy's show, Peak Bullshit,

is currently touring

0:28:410:28:43

around the country.

0:28:430:28:46

Maybe stick to comedy not cakes

from now on, eh, Andy.

0:28:460:28:56

Michael, how significant is this

rise in interest rates?

Well, the

0:28:560:29:04

Bank of England seems to have been

itching to do this for a long time.

0:29:040:29:08

Mark Carney has been predicting an

increase in interest rates for

0:29:080:29:12

several years, it generally giving

forward guidance which he would have

0:29:120:29:16

done better not to have given, since

it was always wrong. I think their

0:29:160:29:22

enthusiasm to raise interest rates

is wrong. I think it is a bad

0:29:220:29:24

decision. Much of the inflation we

are experiencing is due to the

0:29:240:29:29

one-off effect of the pound going

down after the Brexit referendum.

0:29:290:29:34

It's going to hit some people. If

you have a £300,000 mortgage, I

0:29:340:29:39

think it is £39 a month extra money.

It will take extra money out of the

0:29:390:29:44

economy. I don't think the economy

is robust enough for that to happen.

0:29:440:29:49

However, because the Bank of England

has been wrong until now on interest

0:29:490:29:53

rates and Brexit, I suspect it's not

that significant because I don't

0:29:530:29:56

think we will see another increase

for some time.

The danger must be

0:29:560:30:01

that inflation is running ahead of

wages, squeezing living standards.

0:30:010:30:06

So families will have to cope with a

rise in interest rates, and this

0:30:060:30:09

might just be the first. It could be

a further squeeze on living

0:30:090:30:12

standards.

It will be but it's not

half as much as Michael said is the

0:30:120:30:19

impact on prices of the fall in the

pound. And inflation going ahead of

0:30:190:30:25

people's pay being stagnant. And

that is a huge problem, and they

0:30:250:30:30

have been predicting this as was

mentioned on the film, 75,000 jobs

0:30:300:30:37

to be lost in the financial services

sector potentially. Another Bank of

0:30:370:30:45

England prediction.

To clarify, it

was a separate report, and a member

0:30:450:30:50

of the Bank of England was asked to

comment on it and he chose the

0:30:500:30:54

75,000 figure, saying, that is about

right. It is not Bank of England

0:30:540:30:58

research.

It has been challenged by

the Conservatives, who are not

0:30:580:31:04

publishing the 58 sector impact

assessment they have actually drawn

0:31:040:31:08

up. It would be better if they

published them, rather than simply

0:31:080:31:13

saying the assessment that is out

there is wrong.

I think they are

0:31:130:31:18

going to.

I thought they said they

were.

I think your party has pushed

0:31:180:31:23

them into it. There may be

redactions, but they will publish.

0:31:230:31:26

Give it to the Brexit select

committee, that is what has been

0:31:260:31:31

asked for.

I don't want to... The

economy has slowed down this year,

0:31:310:31:40

certainly in the first half. Are we

through the worst, or is it going to

0:31:400:31:45

slow even more?

I have no idea. The

economy may have slowed down but it

0:31:450:31:50

has done better than most people

predicted. I think it has been

0:31:500:31:54

pretty robust, given the number of

people, including the Bank of

0:31:540:31:58

England, Harriet Harman and everyone

else, who tries to do it down.

Mrs

0:31:580:32:02

May calling an election that Jamaat

that added to the uncertainty,

0:32:020:32:07

didn't it?

Of course it did, and

failing to win the election. So when

0:32:070:32:13

you factor that in, I think the

economy has done pretty well. So I

0:32:130:32:17

don't think we are on a downward

spiral. There is a robustness to the

0:32:170:32:21

economy that most people had not

spotted.

The problem with that is

0:32:210:32:26

that living standards are not even

where they were in 2010. So the idea

0:32:260:32:31

that the economy is doing well, I

suppose it could have done worse,

0:32:310:32:35

but for most people they feel they

are working harder and they are not

0:32:350:32:38

getting better off. And there is the

big unknown of what is going to

0:32:380:32:43

happen. March 1919 is only two more

Christmases.

2019, yes. You

0:32:430:32:55

underline my point about the Bank of

England. How you think the right

0:32:550:32:59

response to the fact that wages are

not keeping price with -- keeping

0:32:590:33:05

pace with prices is to take money

away from people in their mortgages

0:33:050:33:08

each month, I don't know.

What is

the biggest threat to growth and

0:33:080:33:12

investment? Three choices. Brexit,

Mrs May's weak and unstable

0:33:120:33:19

government, or the prospect of a

Corbyn government?

I think the first

0:33:190:33:27

two, and uncertainty.

You are only

allowed to choose one. I asked for

0:33:270:33:34

the biggest threat.

My moment of the

week was the whole week, so I am

0:33:340:33:41

changing the parameters. If people

are making investment decisions,

0:33:410:33:45

they do not know the context in

which they will be doing it.

So is

0:33:450:33:51

it Brexit?

I think the fear that we

will get a worst deal out of Brexit

0:33:510:33:55

because of the conflict in the

government, so they are the same

0:33:550:33:57

problem.

Michael?

I would love to

answer the question but all three

0:33:570:34:04

are important factors. All three of

them are important factors and they

0:34:040:34:09

feed off each other. I am fairly

optimistic about Brexit. We don't

0:34:090:34:13

know how it will be. The government

is weak are now that Michael Fallon

0:34:130:34:18

has left it. And if the government

is weak, there is the prospect of a

0:34:180:34:23

Corbyn government, which terrifies

many people.

If it terrifies

0:34:230:34:27

everybody we will not have a Corbyn

government. It terrifies the Tories

0:34:270:34:32

because it does not seem to be

terrifying the public in the way

0:34:320:34:35

they would like it too.

It does not

frighten you?

My worry about Jeremy

0:34:350:34:41

Corbyn was that the public would

turn away from him, the Tories would

0:34:410:34:46

be stronger, Labour would be weaker,

and we need the voters in order to

0:34:460:34:50

be in government.

So nothing to do

with principal, just whether you

0:34:500:34:53

would be in power.

I think it is

very important for Labour to be in

0:34:530:34:59

power. I do not have fundamental

policy disagreements with him, I

0:34:590:35:02

just thought he could not lead us

towards government, and June changed

0:35:020:35:06

that.

Is he a Marxist?

I have been a

Labour London MP with Jeremy Corbyn

0:35:060:35:17

for many years but I did not know

him very well because we were

0:35:170:35:21

engaged in rather different things.

You were in government and he was

0:35:210:35:26

kept on the backbenches.

I don't

think he sought to get into

0:35:260:35:28

government. Actually, what has

happened now is that he has done a

0:35:280:35:33

good election campaign, and

appealing manifesto, and he is

0:35:330:35:37

really moving things forwards and

people are finding that more

0:35:370:35:41

appealing.

Did you ever think he

would be favourite to win an

0:35:410:35:46

election?

No, I didn't, but I

thought we were going in the wrong

0:35:460:35:49

direction with voters and we

actually gained seats. So I was

0:35:490:35:53

happy to find that I was proved

wrong and it is interesting to see

0:35:530:35:56

how Jeremy Corbyn is doing and prime

ministers questions now. He is doing

0:35:560:36:00

the craft. He is saying, if she

can't lead, she should leave. That

0:36:000:36:07

is the craft of it.

So you are a fan

now?

Yes, I think I am.

We used to

0:36:070:36:16

hear from the Blairites that they

thought nationalisation was the

0:36:160:36:18

wrong thing to do, giving rights to

the trade unions was the wrong thing

0:36:180:36:22

to do, shoving at rates of taxation

was the wrong thing to do. Now it is

0:36:220:36:27

clear that it was not that these

things were wrong, it was just that

0:36:270:36:30

it made it less likely that they

would get back to power. Now that it

0:36:300:36:34

looks like they might get back to

power, all the things that were

0:36:340:36:37

wrong before are perfectly all

right. It is very revealing.

We are

0:36:370:36:43

not shoving up taxes, we are going

back on the 50p rate, going back on

0:36:430:36:47

the rail franchises which aren't

working.

I don't want to go through

0:36:470:36:51

the Labour manifesto again. I want

to ask a former Defence Secretary

0:36:510:36:55

what he makes of Gavin Williamson

being the new Defence Secretary.

I

0:36:550:37:00

do not know Gavin Williamson but I

have some very, very good friends,

0:37:000:37:05

whose judgment I trust completely,

who do know him, whose opinion of

0:37:050:37:09

him is the highest.

Really?

In parts

of Westminster it has gone down by

0:37:090:37:14

-- like a lead balloon. But my

friends think he is one of the

0:37:140:37:19

brightest stars in the firmament.

Nonetheless, it is unusual for

0:37:190:37:24

someone to go from Chief Whip to

Secretary of State. But if he is as

0:37:240:37:28

good as my friends tell me, he will

take that in his stride. Of course,

0:37:280:37:36

within a party there are lots of

people who would like to have been

0:37:360:37:39

promoted themselves and they will

use their sharp tongues to talk him

0:37:390:37:42

down. There is nothing surprising

about that.

We shall see.

0:37:420:37:49

It's a brave politician,

or any public figure,

0:37:490:37:50

who'd tell a joke these days.

0:37:500:37:52

Almost before the laughter has died

you'll be issuing grovelling

0:37:520:37:54

apologies for offending someone's

sensibility and condemned

0:37:540:37:56

to the gulag of social media

disapprobation until the online mob

0:37:560:37:59

has moved on to monster

some other poor sod.

0:37:590:38:01

The lines between what is acceptable

and what is not are being redrawn

0:38:010:38:04

and the new boundaries are not

always easy to discern, especially

0:38:040:38:07

for folks of a certain age.

0:38:070:38:08

These days the safest course

is probably an early

0:38:080:38:10

night with a cup of cocoa

and an improving book.

0:38:100:38:12

So is this the new normal?

0:38:120:38:15

Who knows?

0:38:150:38:16

That's why we're putting jokes

and taste in the spotlight.

0:38:160:38:24

This Week is such bad taste that

sometimes we are lost for words.

0:38:350:38:38

Meh.

0:38:380:38:40

Um...

0:38:400:38:43

Maybe keeping schtum is your best

bet when things get sensitive.

0:38:430:38:45

Following accusations

of bad taste, Michael Gove

0:38:450:38:47

apologised for this exchange

with Neil Kinnock on Saturday.

0:38:470:38:54

Sometimes I think that coming

into the studio with you,

0:38:540:38:56

John, is a bit like going

into Harvey Weinstein's bedroom.

0:38:560:38:59

John goes way past groping.

0:38:590:39:02

Way past grouping.

0:39:020:39:03

You just pray that you emerge

with your dignity intact.

0:39:030:39:10

Do you need to say anything

at all to be accused of bad taste?

0:39:100:39:14

David Walliams' Halloween costume

solicited accusations

0:39:140:39:15

of racism on Tuesday night.

0:39:150:39:25

It isn't only jokes

that can be bad taste.

0:39:250:39:27

How about readings of history?

0:39:270:39:30

White House chief of staff

General John Kelly said this

0:39:300:39:33

about the American civil

war on Monday.

0:39:330:39:35

The lack of an ability to compromise

led to the civil war.

0:39:350:39:42

Which has led to accusations that

Kelly is an apologist for slavery.

0:39:420:39:45

Happy and safe Hallowe'en.

0:39:450:39:49

Thanks, guys.

0:39:490:39:52

What about apologies?

0:39:520:39:57

Kevin Spacey came out as gay

in the same breath as appearing

0:39:570:40:05

to apologise for allegedly making

a sexual advance on actor

0:40:050:40:07

Anthony Rapp when he was a child,

provoking a backlash.

0:40:070:40:09

The gay community is saying, "Sorry,

it's not because you're gay,

0:40:090:40:12

"it's something you did

that was improper.

0:40:120:40:14

"And please don't connect the two".

0:40:140:40:19

Comedian Shazia Mirza

thinks some people go out

0:40:190:40:24

of their way to be offended.

0:40:240:40:25

So are we all too thin-skinned,

or are we really living

0:40:250:40:30

in an age of bad taste?

0:40:300:40:36

And Shazia is with us now.

0:40:360:40:42

Are we in a culture where we are

looking to be offended so that we

0:40:420:40:47

can be offended?

Some people are

offended and they do not know why,

0:40:470:40:52

some are offended on other people's

behalf, some are offended because

0:40:520:40:56

others are not offended enough, and

some are offended because they just

0:40:560:40:58

want someone to write to. You ask

someone why they are offended and

0:40:580:41:02

they can't tell you why. If you

don't know why you are offended,

0:41:020:41:07

you're not offended.

Sometimes

people are offended because things

0:41:070:41:12

are offensive sometimes.

Sometimes

people are offended and others join

0:41:120:41:15

in and go, I am offended as well. It

is contagious because once one

0:41:150:41:21

person says it, others join in and

go, yes, that's right, I'm offended,

0:41:210:41:24

but I don't know what about.

Why has

it come to this?

It hasn't.

Some

0:41:240:41:33

people are offended on other

people's behalf because they feel

0:41:330:41:36

they should be. We are fine. Don't

be offended for us. I'm fine.

Should

0:41:360:41:42

Michael Gove have apologised for his

Harvey Weinstein joke?

I'm a

0:41:420:41:47

comedian. When I heard that, I

laughed, I thought it was funny. But

0:41:470:41:51

context is everything, and he was in

the studio at 8:10am on Radio 4,

0:41:510:41:59

60th anniversary celebrations. It

was not a comedy club. So context is

0:41:590:42:03

everything. If I said that on stage

at a comedy club, people would have

0:42:030:42:07

laughed.

It was a live audience and

they did not seem offended.

John

0:42:070:42:13

Humphrys laughed, Neil Kinnock

laughed, he got a round of applause.

0:42:130:42:20

Should he have apologised?

I think

if you are somebody who cares about

0:42:200:42:27

what Harvey Weinstein has been

doing, preying on people and getting

0:42:270:42:30

away with it for years, it's not

that funny, really. It's not the

0:42:300:42:36

sort of joke I would make myself.

So

Charlie Chaplin should not have made

0:42:360:42:41

jokes about Hitler?

I have long been

accused of being a humourless

0:42:410:42:48

feminist. I will give you two

examples I protested about, because

0:42:480:42:52

they were offensive and hurtful.

We

need to be quick.

This was a

0:42:520:43:00

hospital right magazine back in the

day and people like Andrew say these

0:43:000:43:03

things are perfectly all right. Two

jokes. One was, how do you get 100

0:43:030:43:08

dues into a mini? One in the driving

seat, 99 in the ashtray. That is not

0:43:080:43:14

funny.

We will stop with that one

example and we will not bother with

0:43:140:43:19

a one-minute's silence that you

would dare to think what I will

0:43:190:43:22

think about that, because you have

no knowledge at all. David Walliams

0:43:220:43:27

Wenger Kim Jong-il and costume...

But the thing is, Andrew.

Be quiet.

0:43:270:43:40

It was Halloween and I have people

-- seen people dressed as far worse.

0:43:400:43:45

It was fancy dress and it was

Halloween, it was in context.

Do you

0:43:450:43:50

think more now about your jokes

because of the danger of a reaction

0:43:500:43:55

that you might not have got five or

ten years ago?

As a comedian, if you

0:43:550:43:59

are not offending someone, you are

not doing well. You are just not

0:43:590:44:04

doing the job, because someone is

bound to be offended by anything you

0:44:040:44:07

say. Anything.

Firstly, there is a

danger that people being offended as

0:44:070:44:12

a way of clamping down on free

speech. Secondly, the Kevin Spacey

0:44:120:44:17

case, I am ready worried that great

art that would be created in future

0:44:170:44:21

is not going to be created because

this man is going to be ostracised.

0:44:210:44:26

And I have long thought about the

connection between the artist and

0:44:260:44:30

the art, the art is separate from

the artist.

What are you up to?

I am

0:44:300:44:37

on tour, going round the country

offending people.

Good luck with

0:44:370:44:40

that.

0:44:400:44:42

So that's it for another week.

0:44:420:44:43

Scripts were by Molly

the Dog, location catering

0:44:430:44:45

by the Greasy Spoon,

wardrobe by Army Surplus,

0:44:450:44:47

and the show was shot

on location in Lou Lou's.

0:44:470:44:50

But we're not hanging around

for the after-party.

0:44:500:44:52

We're heading for

the This Week bunker.

0:44:520:44:53

Yes, we've invested in a luxury

bunker to keep us safe

0:44:530:44:56

come the Armageddon.

0:44:560:44:57

It comes complete with a heated

dog basket for Molly,

0:44:570:44:59

a yoga mat for Harriet and a toy

train set for Michael.

0:44:590:45:02

Plus, of course, Blue Nun on tap.

0:45:020:45:04

The End of Days?

0:45:040:45:05

We can hardly wait!

0:45:050:45:06

Nighty-night, don't let Sandi

and Sandra from Gogglebox bite.

0:45:060:45:16

David Dimbleby, I can't even

pronounce it. David Dimbleby. I

0:45:170:45:22

can't say his name.

Dig a B?

When

I'm on TV, I have to eat first,

0:45:220:45:35

babe. I can't concentrate. What's

going on?

What's his name?

I don't

0:45:350:45:42

know. Google him. Who is the

presenter of this Week?

Andrew Neil

0:45:420:45:50

is the presenter of this week.

Yes,

him.

Here's my mate. Diana.

Not

0:45:500:46:02

Diana, Diane.

The one where they sit

down, very, very close.

0:46:020:46:12

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