05/11/2015 Thursday in Parliament

Hello this is Thursday in Parliament,

our look at the day at Westlinster.

The headlines...

Flights to and from Sharm el-Sheik are grounded, leaving thous`nds of

Britons stranded, after a Rtssian passenger plane which took off from

the resort crashed at the wdekend.

We still cannot be certain what caused the loss of the aircraft

but we are reaching the view that a bomb on board is

a significant possibility.

As the Egyptian president vhsits the UK, MPs debate human rights

in his country.

The human rights record in Egypt has plummeted.

And peers warn about the dangers of pornography.

Objectification, exploitation and, very often, abuse.

About 20,000 Britons are stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh, after flights

between the UK and the Egyptian resort have been suspended.

David Cameron said it was "increasingly likely"

a "terrorist bomb"

caused a Russian passenger jet, which took off from the Red Sea

resort, to crash, killing all 2 4 people on board on Saturday.

In a statement to the Commons, Transport Secretary,

Patrick McLoughlin, said the safety and securitx

of the travelling public was the Government's highest prhority.

We still cannot be certain what caused the loss of

the aircraft, but we are re`ching the view that a bomb on board is a

significant possibility.

Were this to turn out to be the case, it

clearly has serious implications for the security of UK nationals flying

from Sharm el-Sheikh.

We have therefore taken the decision that it

was necessary to act.

The decisions we have made are based on a review

of all the information available.

Some of it is sensitive and I am not

able to go into detail on that information.

But the House can be assured

we have taken this decision on the basis of the safety of

British citizens.

He said specialist teams wotld be working with the Egyptians to allow

scheduled flights to begin `gain.

The decision to suspend flights is very serhous

indeed and has not been takdn lightly, but the safety and security

of the travelling public is of course

the Government's highest prhority.

We need to be confident security standards meet our

expectations and those of the public before we allow services to resume.

The airlines are working with us to bring their passengers home.

No UK-bound aircraft

will take off until it is s`fe to do so.

The Shadow Transport Secret`ry said the opposition supported

the government's move to ground flights to and from the resort.

Mr Speaker, given that the Government bdlieves

that the Metro Jet flight m`y have been deliberately targeted,

will he reassure the House on how he reached the concltsion

that there was no threat in the wider

Sharm el-Sheikh resort?

Will the Secretary of State also update the House on when he expects

the security review of the `irport to conclude and can he give

any further information on the possible new long-term leasures

he referred to in his statelent

Can I thank the honourable lady for the general support that has

been given by the opposition?

She is right to say this is not a decision that is taken lightly

and was taken after very careful consideration of the details

the Government had received.

As this is a very concerning time, information will be the key,

with many people getting their information from webshtes

Can we get an assurance that consular support

on the ground will be providing people with practical support?

The Foreign Office have deployed people and they are deploying more

people today to the airport and working with tour operators as well.

I understand what he says about websites giving information

and indeed, social media giving information, which can,

some of information has been put out and turned out to not be correct.

I think it is very important for people to check with totr

operators, check with the officials from the Foreign Office.

It has very serious implacations for the Egyptian tourist industry and

some of the Egyptian sensithvity that we have experienced relates to

that significant potential damage to their interests.

But could my honourable fridnd impress upon his Egyptian opposite

numbers that the same candotr and transparency in this investhgation

is probably the quickest wax to restore confidence, for people being

able to travel to Sharm el-Sheikh

rather than resorting to dissembling and cover-up?

Yes, I agree with my honourable friend.

I do not think there is any desire for anybody

to dissemble or cover-up.

The focus is on Sharm el-Shdikh and the airport there,

but now we know there is a suspicion Isis is targeting aviation.

Are you taking a review of security at British airports

We are always reviewing safdty at British airports.

So, that is something which does not stop.

I think anybody that goes to an airport sometimes will complain

about the level of intrusivdness that is there in those airports

But of course, we keep security under revidw.

As I say, in this particular case, this is where we were not s`tisfied

about some of the ways in which security measures werd being

carried out.

The current concern over flhghts into and out

of Egypt has coincided with a visit to the UK by the Prdsident

of Egypt, Abdel Fattah el-Shsi.

President Sisi has been the subject of widespread criticism

for the alleged oppression taking place in his country.

This led to protests in Central London, as scores of demonstrators

objected to his visit.

The Egyptian leader went to Downing Street for talks with David Cameron.

When an urgent Commons questions was asked about human rights in Egypt,

a Foreign Office Minister ddfended President Sisi's visit.

The visit provides an opportunity for the Prime Minister to elphasise

his desire to see more political progress in Egypt, including on

human rights and political freedoms, which are essential foundathons

for long term stability.

The Prime Minister invited President Sisi to the UK because it

is in Britain's interest

to help Egypt succeed as a stable, prosperous

and democratic country and boost our strong commercial relathonship.

The UK government position on human rights also appears to be wdakening.

Asked if human rights were now ond of its

lower priority activities, Simon McDonald,

Permanent Secretary at the FCO, replied,

"Answering as Permanent Secretary,

"although it is one of the things we follow,

"it is not one of our top priorities.

"I would not dispute that rhght now the prosperity agenda is further

"up the list of priorities."

Will the Minister take this opportunity to confirm the TK

government is not downgrading human rights in favour of trade

It is now our view

that we raise human rights as a matter of coursd,

not instead of, but part of the package.

It is part of the process that every time I go into a meeting

and indeed every time my honourable friend from the Department for

International Development goes into a meeting, we raise these m`tters.

A Conservative MP recalled how President Sisi ousted Mohamled Morsi

in 2013.

Nobody should be in any doubt about what the price has bedn.

Possibly thousands of people were killed

when the squares were cleardd.

40,000 are in prison.

We have had the reports, we have seen death penalties handed out

with batches of several hundred

And many of us will have had first-h`nd

testimony of people being tortured in the Egyptian justice system.

And I am not entirely sure that inviting President Sisi to the

United Kingdom is wholly appropriate at this time until these issues are

fully addressed and there is some accountability for the condtct of

the operation in 2013 and the conduct of policies since.

As chairman of the all-partx Eygypt group

along with the member for Morley,

may I fundamentally disagred with my honourable friend and sax to

the Minister that we welcomd the visit of President Sisi and we

think it is a tremendous opportunity for the United Kingdom to engage

for all the reasons my honotrable friend, the Minister, has sdt out.

Egypt is an ally of ours and a key part in bringing `bout

regional stability, not least in the work that it has done in trying

to bring about a solution bdtween Israel and the Palestinians.

The human rights record in Egypt has plummeted.

The Minister knows that there was a trial where 520 death sentences

were issued after one hour,

683 were issued without a single defendant being prdsent.

We don't hear about it becatse 125 journalists are locked tp.

Can the Minister not understand that appearing to endorse Presiddnt Sisi

is likely to make people more engaged with radical terrorhsm

than the other way around?

Any government founded on democracy

and respect for human rights

will see stability and prosperity follow.

A government founded on oppression and denial of human rights will

never be a stable government and a prosperous country.

You're watching Thursday in Parliament.

Our top story:

Flights to and from the Egyptian resort Sharm el-Sheikh are suspended

as thousands of tourists are stranded.

And still to come:

What's wrong with a particularly twisted turnhp?

Now, the widespread availabhlity of pornography, especially on

the Internet, is having a ndgative impact on society and espechally

childhood, peers heard during a debate led by the Bishop of Chester.

The Bishop acknowledged his personal knowledge

of pornography was limited.

He'd been struck by warnings, including

an NSPCC ChildLine survey of 70 children aged 12 and 13, whhch found

that 20% had seen pornography that shocked or upset them.

The danger is that in tacitly or openly accepting the pervashve

presence of adult pornography in people's lives, we are choosing to

make the attitudes that lie behind and in pornography seem norlal.

Objectification, explanation and very often, abuse.

This leaves young people exposed to much damaging material,

which presents them with distorted images of life.

If this is true of both boys and girls, it is girls that suffer

the worst consequences, with poor perceptions of their own bodies and

the damage that comes from that

The sharing of sexually specific images on the Internet and lobile

phones is another dimension of the potential harm, especially when they

are shared with other peopld and indeed in adults, of course, this

can produce so-called revenge pornography

which I am glad to say has now been recognised as a criminal offence.

Since much of this, my lords, is historically unprecedentdd,

and moving so rapidly, we cannot say with any confhdence

where it will lead.

The regulatory issues to me are huge, far more complex, I think

than the Right Reverend indhcated.

As are those drawing the boundaries between what is

acceptable sexual experimentation and innovation and what is not.

There is a whole new world out there which no

generation of human beings has ever experienced before in the s`me way.

My lords, I am very, very exercised as a grandparent with

four grandchildren about thd uninhibited, unlimited effect that

pornography on the Internet has

And I believe there is an absolute moral duty resting on all of us to

seek to come up with a solution that will indeed protect the young.

Crossbencher Lady Murphy warned there was a lack

of accurate research on the subject to come to conclusions and said that

in Japan, where violent porn was watched, there was a low rape rate.

Fantasies do not translate into behaviours

and that is the core problel.

Sexual fantasies are no different.

They do not translate into behaviours.

The Minister told peers the UK was leading the world in the

fight to address the most hdinous crimes against children onlhne.

The potential harm to children and young people with onlind

pornography mean the most responsible approach to

ensure they are protected should not jeopardise the rights of chhldren to

a safe Internet experience.

Children should be able to dnjoy the huge benefits

the online world has to offdr but must have the right to experience

a happy and healthy childhood.

And Lady Shields said the Government was taking action on a rangd

of fronts to tackle the viewing downloading and sharing

of abuse imagery online.

Myanmar, formerly Burma, goes to the polls on 8th November -

the country's first elections since a civilian government was

introduced in 2011, ending nearly 50 years of military rule.

But there are concerns about the elections.

The Labour MP Valerie Vaz asked an urgent question about thd release

of political activists and `bout human rights ahead of the election.

The Minister explained the situation in the countrx.

Burma goes to the polls this very Sunday `nd has

the possibility of being thd most important democratic opporttnity

for Burma in over 50 years.

Credible, inclusive and transparent elections would represent a huge

step at consolidating Burma's transition towards a democr`cy.

But we are under no illusions that these elections will be perfect and,

more widely, human rights rdmain extremely troubling.

But the Minister said the commitment to release all political

prisoners remained unfulfilled.

If the government really wants to move forward to democracy,

no political prisoners, Mr Speaker, should be behind bars.

Scores of political prisoners remain behind bars.

The country has yet to move forward to democracy.

Civil society groups need to push for amending the Draconian laws

that attempt to silence acthvists.

Large parts of the Christian majority state effectively remain

in a state of civil war.

More than 100,000 people have been displaced as a result of thd clashes

and remain in temporary camps.

The conflict shows that the government has failed to deliver

on its promise to end armed clashes in Myanmar before the 8th

of November vote.

Totally unacceptable to imprison people in the run-up to

the election, even if they `re freed, particularly given they

can't campaign under Burmesd law is particularly concerning that this

has all happened given, in 2012 the President did make an assertion that

political prisoners will be freed and much progress had been lade

since that visit in 2012 to London.

However, we have gone backwards recently

The Minister said the government had reports

of more people being arrestdd.

In relation to the number of groups that have signed tp to

the ceasefire, I believe it's eight out of 15 or 16, and that cdasefire

is broadly still in place.

Human Rights Watch yesterdax identified concerns over thd

electoral process being unddrmined by a systematic and structural

problem, including the lack of an independent election comlission,

ruling party dominance of state media and reservathon

of 25% of seats for the milhtary.

This is an anathema to us in this House to think that 25%

of the seats in this Chamber might be filled by military gener`ls.

This is not something that hs recognised, clearly,

as part of a modern democracy.

The Minister there.

Now, a repeat of the 2008 fhnancial crisis could be on the cards

unless the government thinks again on how it sells off its stake

in the Royal Bank of Scotland.

That's the view of a Labour MP.

Starting a lengthy backbenchers debate on the sale,

Kate Osamor said the sell-off should only proceed after a review of the

whole UK banking sector was made.

The UK has the most concentrated and homogeneous banking sector

in the developed world.

Just 3% of our banking systdm is locally controlled compared

to two thirds in Germany.

We are also uniquely reliant on shareholder-owned banks `t the

expense of other ownership lodels.

This lack of diversity makes us uniqudly

vulnerable to financial crisis.

Put simply, it makes it more likely that our

banks will suffer the same problems at the same time as it did hn 2 08.

Breaking up RBS and localishng our banking system would make us

more resilient to future shocks

I do favour, very much, the idea in this motion

of a new model of banking.

Since 2007, there's not been significant reform.

There's been almost nothing done to reign in the worst excesses

of fractional reserve banking.

And it's this, this ability to conjure credit out of nothing that,

first of all, creates chronhc malinvestment and credit bubbles in

the wider economy, but also, which make banks intrinsically unstable

and in need of bailouts - b`ilouts, incidentally,

which I've consistently opposed

We can debate and discuss the frailties which are still there in

the Royal Bank of Scotland today and what it has to do to improvd its

balance sheet but, I think, the real worry is that when banks ard in a

much better position than pdrhaps they are today, where the b`lance

sheets are strengthened, wh`t would stop the likes of Royal Bank

of Scotland, even in the ringfenced scenario, of putting additional

capital into investment banking

That's the problem.

It's the seduction of the charms of investment banking that we know

in the last decade, the last 2-3 decades,

has led to investment banks going down that road and, I think, that's

what we have to be very cardful of.

The easiest thing to do would be to leave RBS in state hands,

to duck the difficult questhons but, in fact, no one in today's debate

argued that the situation that we inherited in 2010, with large chunks

of failing banks in taxpayer hands, is a situation that we should

maintain forever.

The right thing to do for the strength of the economy

and for taxpayers is to start selling off our stake as part

of a phased disposal progralme.

Peers have dismissed a call for a national debate on Islam, sponsored

by the Government, as divishve.

The idea came from the Ukip peer Lord Pearson, who revealed that he'd

written a short summary of Hslam.

Some noble Lords may not be aware that abrogation means that where

there is contradiction in the Koran, its later more valid versus outweigh

its admirably peaceful earlx texts.

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, together with some Koranic

scholars, I have written a short summary of Islam, which I whll send

him, and that we are asking the Guardian newspaper to hold

an open debate as to its accuracy?

And second, my Lords, given the seriousness

of our domestic situation, couldn't the government itself sponsor

a council of our Muslim leaders in which they could clarify the

modern meaning of their relhgion and cast the extremists out of Hslam?

My Lords, I look forward to receiving the noble Lord's summary

of the great religion of Islam, but perhaps, on his reflection, he would

have also noted, with the exception of one verse in the holy Koran,

every verse of the holy Kor`n starts with the word, "in the name of God,

the gracious, most merciful", which underlines the true sdntiments

and principle of that relighon.

In terms of engaging in deb`te, the government has been verx much

engaging in debate across Mtslim communities.

Indeed, the Prime Minister recently launched an engagement forul where

he is meeting with people of all denominations from across the Muslim

community and beyond to enstre we confront extremism, as I sahd

earlier, in all its ugly guhses

Does the noble Lord think it's helpful or constructive that any

religious text, be it from the Koran, the Old Testament or even the

Hebrew Scriptures, taken and quoted selectively, should be used in a

negative, divisive and political way to put whole communities on trial?

One peer quoted some very offensive remarks he'd read

in newspaper cuttings.

What are the government's vhews of the following comments?

"Most Nigerians are generally bad people."

"Jewish bankers financed Hitler "

"Islam is a cancer."

And what should be our response to a political party that holds such

views?

The views that the noble Lord has just arthculated,

which he's reporting to the House, are abhorrent and I think I speak

for the whole House.

First of all, I wasn't award that the noble Lord, Lord Pearson,

was a scholar of Islamic thdology.

I do not profess to have anx such expertise but I am concerned that

such a debate as he advocatds could be divisive and further exacerbate

the current rise in Islamophobia.

My Lords, I, like the majorhty, the vast majority of the 1.6 billion

Muslims around the world, w`s taught that peace, compassion and obeying

the law of the land are fundamental.

To me, that is the nature of Islam.

Now, about a third of the 41 million tonnes of food

that's bought in the UK every year is wasted and the highest proportion

of this is from households.

And the cost?

The campaigning organisation Wrap estimates that each household wastes

?480 - that's a total of ?12 billion a year.

Labour's Holly Lynch asked the environment, food and rtral

affairs team what progress was being made on combating food wastd.

We heard from Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's War

on Waste documentary this wdek that supermarket practices, such

as unnecessarily strict cosletic specifications for products,

are contributing to huge amounts of waste in the supply chain.

Can I ask the Minister what he's doing to

ensure that supermarkets take much greater responsibility for reducing

food waste in their supply chains?

I'd like to pay tribute to some of the retailers.

Tesco's has made progress on bananas, there's been good progress

from the Co-op on potatoes for the Marfona range, which basically

reduces by 30% potato waste.

But I absolutely agree retahlers have to play a larger role

in reducing food waste in gdneral.

The consumers have a role to play, too.

What's wrong with an overbent banana?

What's wrong with a particularly twisted turnhp?

They can still taste just as good!

We've got to educate the consumer.

What will the Minister do about doing just that?

Ministers and Shadow Ministdrs walking around with strange,shaped

fruit is not always very positive!

However, in order to encour`ge this, I would be delighted to be seen

eating a wobbly banana.

Notably in the company of the honourable member for Lichfheld

Two new peers have taken their seats on the red benches.

They were, until recently, more at home on the green bdnches.

The Former Lib Dem leader Shr Ming Campbell and the former Lib Dem MP

Don Foster are now both peers.

Sir Ming will now be Lord C`mpbell of Pittenweem and his colle`gue

Lord Foster of Bath.

Know ye that we, of our espdcial grace, certain knowledge and mere

motion, in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other

powers on that behalf us en`bling do, by these presents, advance,

create and prefer our right trusty and well-beloved councillor,

Sir Walter Menzies Campbell, knight, member of our Order of

the Companions of Honour, commander of our most excellent Order of the

British Empire, one of our counsel, learned in the law, to the state,

degree, style, dignity, title and honour of Baron C`mpbell

of Pittenweem, of Pittenweel in our county of Fife.

I, Donald, Lord Foster of B`th, do swear by Almighty God th`t I will

be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth

her heirs and successors, according to law, so help md, God.

Thanks for watching and frol me Georgina Pattinson, goodbye.