03/12/2015 Thursday in Parliament


03/12/2015

Georgina Pattinson presents highlights of Thursday 3 December in Parliament.


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Hello and welcome to Thursday in Parliament,

:00:12.:00:12.

Calls for a security review after MPs face intimidating

:00:13.:00:19.

behaviour following the debate on Syrian air strikes.

:00:20.:00:23.

Sadly, some of the abuse - I think we would all agree -

:00:24.:00:26.

for all members of this House, has been beyond the pale.

:00:27.:00:29.

Peers express concerns over the review into the powers

:00:30.:00:31.

of the House of Lords following the blocking of tax credit cuts.

:00:32.:00:35.

They were unprecedented. They did raise serious questions.

:00:36.:00:40.

And good news for those who are frustrated by poor or no broadband.

:00:41.:00:45.

By the end of this Parliament, people will have a legal right

:00:46.:00:49.

to request a broadband connection, no matter where they live.

:00:50.:00:52.

But first, the debate over Syria and the decision to give

:00:53.:00:55.

the go-ahead for air strikes against Islamic State miltiants has

:00:56.:00:58.

It has provoked passionate feelings on both sides of the argument, both

:00:59.:01:03.

Labour's Chris Bryant has called for a review of security for MPs

:01:04.:01:10.

and their staff as a result of abusive messages and intimidation.

:01:11.:01:15.

Several people have had their offices barricaded.

:01:16.:01:30.

Some have been called murderers, terrorist sympathisers, whatever. I

:01:31.:01:39.

hope the Leader would agree that whilst all members expect a degree

:01:40.:01:43.

of hurly-burly in political life, it is a fundamental principle that all

:01:44.:01:49.

members are sent not as delegates, but as representatives, with the

:01:50.:01:52.

full power to exercise their judgment and conscience, and to

:01:53.:01:57.

speak and vote without fear. No MP should ever be intimidated. Sadly,

:01:58.:02:03.

some of the abuse, for all members of the House, has been beyond the

:02:04.:02:08.

pale. Several members have had their offices barricaded.

:02:09.:02:10.

One member had her house surrounded, while many have had photos

:02:11.:02:12.

of dead babies pushed through their front door at home.

:02:13.:02:15.

Today I gather that some members have received photos

:02:16.:02:17.

MPs have broad shoulders - of course we do - but may I ask

:02:18.:02:21.

the Leader to review the arrangements regarding the security

:02:22.:02:23.

This is not just about members, it is about their families

:02:24.:02:28.

and indeed their staff, as several members have pointed out.

:02:29.:02:32.

Mr Bryant wondered whether the responsibility

:02:33.:02:34.

for funding security should be returned to officers of the House.

:02:35.:02:38.

The Leader of the House said he would not discuss security measures,

:02:39.:02:41.

but the authorities would continue to look at the situation.

:02:42.:02:45.

We are all subject to legitimate public scrutiny, but it will never

:02:46.:02:48.

be acceptable for members' personal safety to be put in jeopardy or for

:02:49.:02:53.

them to be the victims of activities that a court would judge illegal.

:02:54.:03:00.

But please, Leader of the House, let us never have another debate

:03:01.:03:03.

Such was the demand to speak in yesterday's debate that about

:03:04.:03:08.

50 members never got the opportunity to contribute, and many of those who

:03:09.:03:12.

did were confined to just a few minutes at the end of the day.

:03:13.:03:17.

We live in a new type of representative democracy,

:03:18.:03:20.

where MPs are lobbied and communicated with by means that were

:03:21.:03:24.

never anticipated, certainly when I was a new member of Parliament.

:03:25.:03:28.

Constituents expect to see their MPs in this House expressing their

:03:29.:03:32.

opinions, particularly on massively important issues of state such as

:03:33.:03:37.

yesterday's, and I am disappointed that the Leader of the House could

:03:38.:03:40.

not commit to the request from all around the House

:03:41.:03:43.

and the country to have a proper, structured debate that would have

:03:44.:03:47.

allowed everybody who needed to contribute to the debate to get in.

:03:48.:03:59.

Hearing speeches from all sides of the house, some really impassioned

:04:00.:04:05.

and powerful speeches. Some speeches that will be memorable in the

:04:06.:04:07.

history of this place. I think the debate we had yesterday

:04:08.:04:11.

showed this House at its best. We heard from 104 members

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after what had been, over a period of a week and a bit,

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about 20 hours of debate, discussion I think yesterday, this

:04:17.:04:20.

House got it right. The debate on Syria,

:04:21.:04:23.

as MPs mentioned, lasted over 11 hours and Mr Speaker

:04:24.:04:26.

chaired every single minute. Some of us are wondering whether,

:04:27.:04:30.

like Davros in Doctor Who, you have secretly had some kind of feeding

:04:31.:04:37.

and filtration system fitted into the chair, or some hidden tubes.

:04:38.:04:40.

Or perhaps it is down to drugs. May I also congratulate you,

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Mr Speaker, It is not for nothing that you have

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the title of Golden Bladder for the way you chaired

:04:52.:04:55.

yesterday's debate. And there was acknowledgement for

:04:56.:04:57.

the feat from someone in the know. May I pay tribute to you,

:04:58.:05:00.

Mr Speaker, for your Olympic When I was Deputy Speaker,

:05:01.:05:03.

I once had to sit in the chair for six hours, and halfway through I had

:05:04.:05:09.

to put out a call of emergency to the Chairman of Ways and Means to

:05:10.:05:13.

replace me for a couple of minutes. How you did it, I will never know,

:05:14.:05:16.

and I pay tribute to you. Peers have made

:05:17.:05:20.

a pre-emptive strike against any moves to strip them of the power to

:05:21.:05:26.

oppose some Government measures. There have been reports ministers

:05:27.:05:30.

want to prevent the House of Lords vetoing secondary legislation

:05:31.:05:32.

after it rejected the Chancellor's Peers were accused

:05:33.:05:36.

of triggering a constitutional crisis by ignoring a convention that

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says financial measures approved The former Conservative leader

:05:42.:05:45.

of the Lords, Lord Strathclyde, has been given the task of reviewing

:05:46.:05:52.

the powers of the Lords. In view of the 1994 resolution

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of this House that we have an unfettered right to vote

:05:58.:06:00.

on secondary legislation, which was confirmed by the Joint

:06:01.:06:05.

Select Committee on Conventions, if the noble Lord proposes reducing

:06:06.:06:09.

the powers of this House, she will ensure that a further

:06:10.:06:14.

Joint Select Committee of both Houses is established to

:06:15.:06:18.

consider the consequences both I certainly do not want to pre-empt

:06:19.:06:21.

my noble friend's conclusions when he comes forward with his response

:06:22.:06:30.

to the Prime Minister, but it is worth me reminding the House that he

:06:31.:06:36.

is looking into the constitutional issues that were raised

:06:37.:06:41.

by the proceedings in this House They were unprecedented -

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they did raise serious questions. My noble friend is looking

:06:44.:06:51.

at them while consulting widely - both members of the other place

:06:52.:06:59.

as well as here. When he reaches his conclusions,

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I am confident that we will have an opportunity to consider them

:07:05.:07:07.

carefully and decide next steps My Lords,

:07:08.:07:09.

does my noble friend accept that, had this House passed the secondary

:07:10.:07:15.

legislation on tax credits, it would have had the immediate force

:07:16.:07:21.

of law and prevented the Chancellor of the Exchequer abandoning his

:07:22.:07:25.

proposals in his Autumn Statement? My noble friend raises

:07:26.:07:32.

an interesting point. It is interesting because it

:07:33.:07:37.

allows me to say two things. It demonstrates what this House did

:07:38.:07:42.

- it withheld its approval from a motion that had already been

:07:43.:07:48.

voted on three times and decided The key thing

:07:49.:07:53.

about the review that my noble friend is doing is not what the

:07:54.:08:02.

views of this House were, but how it decided to express them and the

:08:03.:08:06.

route by which it chose to do so. My Lords, will Her Majesty's

:08:07.:08:12.

Government heed the serious concerns expressed by the Constitution

:08:13.:08:14.

Committee and the Delegated Powers Committee of your Lordships' House,

:08:15.:08:19.

to the effect that the threshold between primary and secondary

:08:20.:08:22.

legislation continues to move upwards, with secondary legislation

:08:23.:08:26.

used increasingly for matters of policy and principle which should be

:08:27.:08:31.

the subject of primary legislation? My noble friend is examining how to

:08:32.:08:38.

secure the decisive role of the elected House on matters associated

:08:39.:08:41.

with secondary legislation. Clearly, it is important that all

:08:42.:08:48.

Governments use the right vehicle to secure Parliament's decision

:08:49.:08:53.

on their business. That is what all Governments seek

:08:54.:08:59.

to do, and it is what we have been My Lords, given that the Leader

:09:00.:09:02.

of the House has indicated that the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde,

:09:03.:09:16.

and his review team will take into account the views of members of your

:09:17.:09:19.

Lordships' House, will she take this opportunity to commend the view

:09:20.:09:22.

of one noble Lord who said in oral evidence to the

:09:23.:09:25.

Joint Committee on Conventions: "I think we can spend a great deal

:09:26.:09:27.

of time thinking "about how one could improve the

:09:28.:09:30.

convention on secondary legislation, They were the words of

:09:31.:09:32.

the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. Another noble

:09:33.:09:36.

and learned Lord gave evidence to the same Joint Committee - the noble

:09:37.:09:38.

and learned Lord, Lord Falconer. He said this

:09:39.:09:41.

about secondary legislation: "The question is not is the power

:09:42.:09:44.

there to vote against it? "is there a convention that

:09:45.:09:48.

says constitutionally we The answer to the question must be,

:09:49.:09:53.

and is, no. Now, how fast is

:09:54.:09:59.

your internet connection? Or are you one of the many people

:10:00.:10:03.

living in a broadband black hole? Slow connection speeds

:10:04.:10:08.

for computer users in rural parts of the UK is one

:10:09.:10:11.

of the most regular complaints made to MPs, and one of the things those

:10:12.:10:14.

MPs raise most often in Parliament. So the Culture Secretary had

:10:15.:10:20.

some good new By the end of 2017,

:10:21.:10:28.

95% of homes and businesses in the United Kingdom will have

:10:29.:10:33.

access to superfast broadband. As my right honourable friend the

:10:34.:10:35.

Prime Minister announced last month, by the end of this Parliament,

:10:36.:10:38.

people will have a legal right to request a broadband connection,

:10:39.:10:41.

no matter where they live. We will be consulting

:10:42.:10:43.

on these plans, which will put access to broadband

:10:44.:10:45.

on a similar footing with other Those of us who are long

:10:46.:10:47.

and strong advocates of universal service welcome the

:10:48.:10:51.

Government's U-turn on this matter. Only a few weeks ago,

:10:52.:10:54.

I was told by the Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy

:10:55.:10:57.

that this was not possible, I will be taking part

:10:58.:10:59.

in the consultation, but will there be any new Government

:11:00.:11:03.

money from the UK, the Welsh I would be extremely surprised

:11:04.:11:09.

if that was what my honourable friend said, as he has been

:11:10.:11:17.

a leading advocate of the universal service obligation policy, which

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will benefit all the honourable gentleman's constituents,

:11:21.:11:25.

just as it will every other Given the report that was published

:11:26.:11:27.

this week by Ofcom, which illustrated the differences in

:11:28.:11:34.

broadband speed in Northern Ireland and the fact that Northern Ireland

:11:35.:11:40.

has 73% coverage compared with 88% in the rest of the United Kingdom,

:11:41.:11:45.

what action will the Secretary of State and his officials take to

:11:46.:11:49.

address this matter? I believe that the Ofcom report

:11:50.:11:56.

showed different possible causes for slower broadband, including,

:11:57.:12:00.

I am told, Christmas fairy lights. That is why it is making available

:12:01.:12:05.

an app to measure I can tell the honourable lady that

:12:06.:12:08.

in Northern Ireland, we expect that by the end of the superfast

:12:09.:12:12.

broadband project, 87% of homes There won't be many successful

:12:13.:12:16.

business parks where the highway stops short of the park

:12:17.:12:21.

and people have to get out of their Can we apply

:12:22.:12:24.

the same logic to another important highway - broadband -

:12:25.:12:32.

and make sure that business parks are properly connected so that small

:12:33.:12:36.

businesses can thrive and prosper? Telford residents in the Trench Lock

:12:37.:12:41.

and Lightmoor new-build areas, and of historic Ironbridge,

:12:42.:12:45.

tell me that struggle daily with inadequate When can they expect

:12:46.:12:50.

the same, connectivity -- they struggle daily with

:12:51.:12:56.

broadband. Point-to-point wireless can provide

:12:57.:13:10.

a solution today - up to 30 megabits - but the organisations

:13:11.:13:12.

behind those facilities will not invest because state aid will one

:13:13.:13:15.

day bring fibre to those communities Five years after abandoning Labour's

:13:16.:13:19.

universal service commitment and having delayed his own super-slow

:13:20.:13:27.

crawl-out at least three times without proper consultation with

:13:28.:13:31.

either Ofcom or the industry, the Prime Minister magics a universal

:13:32.:13:35.

service obligation out of thin air. The Minister for Culture

:13:36.:13:39.

and the Digital Economy, with whom I have the deepest sympathy,

:13:40.:13:43.

is forced to pretend that it is part of some strategy that has not been

:13:44.:13:46.

published or even consulted on. The Chancellor, however,

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is not in on the trick. The comprehensive spending review

:13:50.:13:52.

does not mention the issue once. Does the Minister have any idea of

:13:53.:13:56.

how much the obligation is going to cost - or it just a sop to his Back

:13:57.:14:01.

Benchers, whose mailbags are bulging That was a good try

:14:02.:14:23.

by the honourable lady. But in actual fact, we are making extremely

:14:24.:14:30.

good progress. We will achieve 95% by the end of 2017. The universal

:14:31.:14:37.

service obligation is to allow those few remaining homes that do not

:14:38.:14:43.

benefit to have a legal right to require broadband. As to the costing

:14:44.:14:48.

of it, we are in discussion with the industry about it and will be

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consulting. We welcome all input including those from the honourable

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lady. You're watching Thursday

:14:55.:14:55.

in Parliament on BBC Parliament. tracking the tax evaders

:14:56.:14:58.

in Britain's overseas territories. But first - measures to toughen up

:14:59.:15:03.

charity regulations have had The Charities Bill

:15:04.:15:06.

will give the Charity Commission And there'll be a new system

:15:07.:15:12.

of self-regulation to ensure that vulnerable people

:15:13.:15:17.

in particular are not put under It follows the death of pensioner

:15:18.:15:19.

Olive Cooke, who received numerous For all that, the Minister dealing

:15:20.:15:28.

with the Bill emphasised that Nevertheless, he said, there

:15:29.:15:34.

were challenges for charities. I myself have dressed up

:15:35.:15:38.

as a sumo wrestler. I have carried a pedometer

:15:39.:15:40.

for a week. I have even lost two stone to race

:15:41.:15:42.

a charger Charities channel the best

:15:43.:15:45.

of our instincts against

:15:46.:15:50.

the worst that life can inflict. Sickness of mind and body entrenched

:15:51.:15:52.

poverty, national disaster, in any other kind of enterprise charities

:15:53.:16:01.

trade upon their reputation. Scandals

:16:02.:16:03.

of poor governance or unscrupulous Tarnishing the vast majority

:16:04.:16:05.

of charities that are well run Earlier this year we saw

:16:06.:16:10.

the tragic case of Olive Cooke. Britain's longest

:16:11.:16:18.

serving poppy seller. For years,

:16:19.:16:20.

she was targeted with hundreds of Over 70 charities had bought

:16:21.:16:22.

her details or swapped them In one month alone, she apparently

:16:23.:16:29.

received 267 charity letters. Sadly, since then, more cases

:16:30.:16:37.

of unscrupulous fundraising This is a good and important bill

:16:38.:16:41.

and we on these benches welcome it. There is some room for improvement,

:16:42.:16:53.

of course, and I will come to that in my speech but

:16:54.:16:56.

its objectives are to be welcomed. We all know the vital role that

:16:57.:16:59.

charities play in building a strong Thousands of people around

:17:00.:17:02.

the country give up their time every day as trustees and volunteers

:17:03.:17:07.

and thousands more depend on vital But she said Labour would try

:17:08.:17:10.

to stop the Government removing measures on housing associations

:17:11.:17:14.

added by the House of Lords. The clause sets out that the Charity

:17:15.:17:16.

Commission should ensure that independent charities are not

:17:17.:17:20.

compelled to dispose of their assets in a way that is inconsistent

:17:21.:17:22.

with their charitable purposes. We will continue to defend this

:17:23.:17:25.

clause to give housing associations the statutory backing to ensure they

:17:26.:17:29.

can make their decisions in the best interests of their tenants, not be

:17:30.:17:32.

bullied by a government determined to sell off and run down affordable

:17:33.:17:35.

housing. We think it's absolutely right

:17:36.:17:37.

that charities have the freedom to dispose of their

:17:38.:17:39.

assets One MP focussed

:17:40.:17:41.

on the possible impact of the I'm concerned that the wording

:17:42.:17:45.

of the bill says that the Charity Commission shall issue a warning to

:17:46.:17:54.

a charity trustee or just trustee for a charity that

:17:55.:17:59.

it considers guilty of some form of I note also within subsection two,

:18:00.:18:02.

sub clause two of clause one that the Charity commission simply

:18:03.:18:13.

on that point may issue A Labour MP was also worried about

:18:14.:18:18.

the impact of extra regulations. Across England and Wales there

:18:19.:18:28.

are 943,000 trustees. I think we in this house bear some

:18:29.:18:32.

responsibility to make sure we don't The bulk of charities

:18:33.:18:37.

in this country, they are not like kids company who appeared to have

:18:38.:18:46.

got away with a remarkable amount. We are talking about people who

:18:47.:18:50.

give up their time on management committees, often when they don't

:18:51.:18:53.

have very much time to give up. We don't always do that well

:18:54.:18:58.

in terms of diversity of trustees. I think it is only about one in

:18:59.:19:02.

200 between the ages of 16 and 24. So I am rather reluctant, if we do

:19:03.:19:12.

anything that scares too many off. MPs have called for faster progress

:19:13.:19:17.

by Britain's overseas territories in improving the transparency

:19:18.:19:21.

of their banking and tax systems. The territories,

:19:22.:19:24.

which include the British Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands,

:19:25.:19:27.

have agreed to central registers, disclosing information on who owns

:19:28.:19:29.

and profits from a company. Two years ago, David Cameron urged

:19:30.:19:32.

British overseas territories to get their house in order, and there'll

:19:33.:19:37.

be a summit next year to focus on How satisfied is he that there

:19:38.:19:42.

really was significant progress in relation to the signal stance

:19:43.:19:57.

that the Prime Minister has taken The strong indications that were

:19:58.:20:01.

made in terms of the criteria that were sent out

:20:02.:20:04.

by the Treasury, in terms of the requirements for real transparency,

:20:05.:20:08.

for proper registers, of beneficial In these overseas Territories,

:20:09.:20:10.

because these are the locations, they are the roots of shelter

:20:11.:20:17.

for all the scams and shams An enormous amount of progress has

:20:18.:20:20.

been made in the last few years in relation to financial services

:20:21.:20:24.

transparency, particularly I think the I think all members

:20:25.:20:26.

of the overseas territories signed up by all members and agreed to

:20:27.:20:33.

by the UK Government. They agreed to hold beneficial

:20:34.:20:37.

ownership information on respective jurisdictions

:20:38.:20:40.

by settlement registers. There's a lot more text

:20:41.:20:44.

but I'll end with a final sentence. We agree that addressing this issue

:20:45.:20:48.

will be given the highest priority and that progress on implementation

:20:49.:20:51.

will be kept under continuous Labour's Catherine West told MPs

:20:52.:20:54.

that the Financial Times has reported the Cayman Islands have

:20:55.:21:01.

refused the UK's request to give law The Prime Minister has been calling

:21:02.:21:04.

on Surely it's clear now that

:21:05.:21:11.

his government must redouble its efforts to bring

:21:12.:21:17.

the standards of to scratch. In fiscally difficult times at home,

:21:18.:21:19.

the overseas Territories being leaders in international finance,

:21:20.:21:21.

should have world leading standards, not world leaders in enabling

:21:22.:21:24.

corruption and tax evasion. My party made a manifesto commitment

:21:25.:21:29.

to require the overseas territories to produce a publicly available

:21:30.:21:31.

registers of the real owners When will the government match

:21:32.:21:34.

our and indeed the general public's I have much more to say for BBI,

:21:35.:21:41.

Caymans and Bermuda. It is wholly untrue to say that

:21:42.:21:48.

the position at the end of the joint mysterious conference

:21:49.:21:55.

was one of obstruction from Cayman, Now was George Osborne just a

:21:56.:21:57.

"lucky Chancellor" - as some of his critics said - at the time

:21:58.:22:06.

of last month's Autumn Statement? The independent Office for

:22:07.:22:10.

Budget Responsibility, the OBR, said public finances were set to be ?27bn

:22:11.:22:12.

better off by 2020 than forecast. This was mainly

:22:13.:22:22.

down to better tax receipts During a debate in the Lords

:22:23.:22:27.

on the economy, Peers discussed whether Mr Osborne

:22:28.:22:30.

had been lucky, or clever, or both. As we know, to paraphrase

:22:31.:22:33.

Napoleon Bonaparte, it's not enough to be a good Chancellor of the

:22:34.:22:37.

Exchequer, it's important to be a Although Chancellors

:22:38.:22:40.

on the whole create their own luck, as somebody, a golfer, I think,

:22:41.:22:49.

once said, "it's funny how the My lord, I do congratulate

:22:50.:22:52.

my noble friend Lord Carrington of Fulham for his excellent

:22:53.:23:11.

introduction to this short debate. If I could supply one small

:23:12.:23:14.

addition, it was Gary Player who was "the more I practice,

:23:15.:23:17.

the luckier I get." He was commenting on the supposed

:23:18.:23:20.

luck for the ?27 million extra which the Office for Budget Responsibility

:23:21.:23:23.

discovered in the last few months. First of all, the Chancellor created

:23:24.:23:26.

the Office for Budget Responsibility so it's an entirely independent body

:23:27.:23:30.

that came up with this new figure. Secondly, he has created

:23:31.:23:33.

the conditions in which the Office for Budget Responsibility could come

:23:34.:23:35.

up with such a figure. So he did, as my noble friend

:23:36.:23:38.

pointed out, deserve his luck. The Autumn Statement gave

:23:39.:23:41.

the Chancellor and early Christmas In the guise of the Office

:23:42.:23:43.

for Budget Responsibility. The figures in the last three months

:23:44.:23:46.

alone improved by ?27 million and like a nervous gambler, the

:23:47.:23:49.

Chancellor has cashed in all his chips on this issue, despite the

:23:50.:23:52.

issue that the OBR said there is more than a 50% chance

:23:53.:23:55.

of the government achieving This, my lord, from

:23:56.:23:57.

a Chancellor who has consistently Peers debated many of the

:23:58.:24:04.

Chancellor's announcements. Including

:24:05.:24:15.

the 3% extra on stamp duty or buy-to-let properties

:24:16.:24:17.

from next April. Empty properties for people when

:24:18.:24:22.

people are inadequately housed, or However, these proposals are

:24:23.:24:30.

not without complexity. And apologising, my lords,

:24:31.:24:37.

if I have missed further detail, I asked the government in

:24:38.:24:42.

the promised consultation on policy First,

:24:43.:24:46.

we need to encourage older people to move at the right time from

:24:47.:24:53.

a family home to something smaller. That transition could be difficult

:24:54.:24:57.

enough for people who are ill or vulnerable or recently widowed, for

:24:58.:25:01.

instance, without the threat of a stamp duty penalty if their sale and

:25:02.:25:06.

purchase do not precisely coincide. Secondly and finally not without

:25:07.:25:14.

interest for the clergy of my diocese, I refer to those who occupy

:25:15.:25:19.

tied accommodation during employment or service, as a condition of

:25:20.:25:24.

employment, often on low or modest incomes,

:25:25.:25:28.

they seek what may technically be a second home in order to provide for

:25:29.:25:33.

their housing needs in retirement. I'll be back with the weekly

:25:34.:25:41.

round up, looking at what's been going on

:25:42.:25:46.

in the Commons and Lords this week. Until then, from me,

:25:47.:25:50.

Georgina Pattinson, goodbye.

:25:51.:26:00.

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