19/01/2017 Thursday in Parliament


19/01/2017

Highlights of proceedings in Parliament on Thursday 19 January, presented by Alicia McCarthy.


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Hello and welcome to Thursday in Parliament.

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Coming up on this programme: The Lords warn the Government

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needs to be on its guard against an increase in hate crime.

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There has been a 40% increase. This is not a spike, this is a trend.

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A Ukip peer explains why he wants curbs on migration.

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And a Conservative peer bids goodbye to Barack Obama.

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Tomorrow we will be read of the most useless American President I have

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ever seen in my lifetime. Labour has called on the Government

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to head off a potential wave of hate crime, when the Supreme Court

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makes its expected judgment An earlier ruling in

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the High Court led to a backlash The latest crime figures

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reveal a 40% increase in hate crimes in the month

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after the referendum vote in England and Wales,

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compared with the same month The leader of the Labour Peers

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raised her fears about All of us want to maintain good

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relations with our EU neighbours as we move forward on Brexit and we do

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not want another spike in hate crimes that we saw

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following the referendum, or the attacks on judges

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following the court's decision. This week the Prime Minister said

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every stray word and every hyped up media report is going to make it

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harder for us to get the right deal Did the Foreign Secretary

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Boris Johnson not get the And can the noble lady confirm

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whether the Prime Minister has conveyed to the governments

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concerned, to those sections of the media that she was alluding to,

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that all agree that such histrionic reports can

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damage the interests and the reputation of

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the We all have a duty to behave

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in a responsible way but it is in society being tolerant,

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not just tolerant, but welcoming of the various communities

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that live in our country that we will make progress, and the media

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is part and parcel of that. Can she think of a single precedent

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where we have been asked to ask a hypothetical question

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in connection with a hypothetical Is it not extraordinary

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that there is an order to ask a It is hypothetical

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but I hope that I can reassure my noble friend

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that in fact what this Government is is prepared,

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and learnt the lessons from what we have seen

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in the last year. The latest crime figures show

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an increase of about 200 hate times per week, 2015-2016,

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compared with the year before. There has been a 40%

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increase in hate crimes This is not a spike,

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this is a trend. Police action is

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simply addressing the What assessment has the Government

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made of the causes of these Does the Government believe

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as we do that the increase in populism and nationalism is

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behind the significant and worrying I heard various tales

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post-referendum of the various Yes, and I will get

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to the point about pre-referendum, because in fact

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the numbers of hate crimes being reported

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are now The reasons behind some

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of the hate crimes What motivates people

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to provoke hatred It is generally based on certain

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characteristics of those people and of those communities

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and it has gone down to pre-referendum levels

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since As someone, and I declare an

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interest in my work as chairman of Kick It Out, where we monitor and

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have been monitoring for the last 23 years, hate incidents,

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which are at the lower That is nothing new about the level

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of hatred that exists within our society and we have got to tackle

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the issue of prejudice which we are To blame Brexit as a

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consequence of what we saw on June the 24th and since,

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is actually delusional. abuse that we are witnessing,

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disabled people who are being abused, you cannot blame that

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specifically on Brexit in the So I ask you to consider

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how we are taking action to effectively

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tackle prejudice which Over in the Commons at Business

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questions an SNP MP was also looking ahead to the Supreme Court

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judgement due next week The court will give a final ruling

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on whether or not Parliament should have a say on triggering Article

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50 - the formal start Now we know now it is almost

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certain that a vote will be required in order to

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trigger Article 50. So will he confirm that this bill

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will be subject to the maximum scrutiny, thoroughly amendable,

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and properly debated, in this House? Can we have a debate about how

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to win friends and influence people? Because the Foreign Secretary's

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starting to look like a dodgy character out of Allo Allo,

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doing his utmost to upset the very people that global Britain needs

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to negotiate with to get a good deal We now know that this Government's

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predominant obsession, everything that underpins its approach

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to leaving the European Union, is immigration and freedom

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of movement. The Government plans

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a great repeal bill to move EU rules and regulations

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into UK law. At Prime Minister's Questions an SNP

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MP had asked whether the bill would be subject to a process known

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as English Votes for English Laws or Evel -

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where Scottish MPs are excluded from voting on legislation that

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applies only to England. Will the Leader of the House

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do what the Prime Minister failed to do yesterday

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and that is to confirm that the Engslish Votes

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for English Laws procedure will not be applied

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to the great repeal bill? This bill will cut across many

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devolved competencies. There is going to be so many

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jurisdictions involved when it comes So will he do what the Prime

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Minister failed to do The leader of the House turned first

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to whether there would need to be a bill in Parliament to trigger

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Article 50 beginning Until the Supreme Court has ruled

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we don't know whether any bill But any bill if it is

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to become law it to go through the full

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parliamentary process through the full parliamentary

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process in this chamber and the For any matter to be subject

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to the Evel arrangement it It must refer to a matter

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which is devolved The legislation here must refer

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only to England or to And third, there must be

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certification from Mr Speaker, that the clause or the

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Bill, or the statutory instrument, Those tests would continue to be

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the ones that would have to be met I think it is very clear to me

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that if for example we look at a measure that is repealing

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the European Communities Act 1972, clearly that has UK-wide

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implications and is not just confined to one part

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of the United Kingdom. Back in the Lords, a Conservative

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peer has lambasted Barack Obama as the most useless American

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president in my lifetime. Lord Blencathra was taking part

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in a debate titled "the challenges to the liberal international order

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posed by the development of populism Donald Trump is due to officially

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take over as US President on Friday. Lord Blencathra made clear

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he would be glad to see the end Tomorrow, my Lords, we will be rid

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of the most useless American President I have ever seen in my

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entire lifetime, whose only legacy He has withdrawn America

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from the world stage and left a disastrous vacuum that's been

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filled by Putin and China. He withdrew troops prematurely

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from Iraq and allowed Isil He laid down red lines on Syria

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on the use of gas in Syria and did nothing to enforce

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them when they were breached. He turned a blind eye

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to Russian hacking for seven years and nine months

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but suddenly became concerned, about Next time I visit the United States

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I will be able to use transgender I would say to the noble

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Lord his time is over, it is No one can accuse the

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Labour Party of not been I would never dream of doing

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that because they are And the Independent of December

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reported, the Labour Party is ramping up preparations to relaunch

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Jeremy Corbyn as a left-wing Senior party officials

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believe his unpolished authenticity could gather support from the same

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anti-establishment that has heralded the popularity of Donald

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Trump and Nigel Farage. So, my lords, I conclude

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there you have it. Populism is a wicked

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and evil thing if it is a right wing President Trump, but

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a good thing if it is a socialist Nobody can do hypocrisy better

:10:56.:10:59.

than the left liberal elite. But his world view was challenged

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by a former Liberal Democrat leader who urged politicians

:11:08.:11:10.

to leave their "tribes" and work together to counter the "dangerous"

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rise of populism and nationalism. He compared the situation

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today with the 1930s. The motto of the age you will recall

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was if you are going to lie, lie big Stick it on the side of a bus

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perhaps and send it around Our age bears horrible

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comparisons with that. Nor do I say that this

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was not a rational reaction I am not interested

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in who to blame but what Spare a thought for the lost tribes

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of Labour and the Tory party, If you are part of a Tory

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tradition of internationalism you find yourself in a party that

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has completely abandoned it? What do you do if you're

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one of those Labour members of Parliament who believes

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in the free market not as a master but as our servant and find your

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party has extensively rejected it? It's extraordinary in

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the last year how much politics has spun away

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to the to build that central

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consensus, that moderate liberal consensus,

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on which I believe the only chance lies

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of altering a very dangerous You're watching Thursday in

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Parliament with me Alicia McCarthy. The best way forward

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for the troubled region of Kashmir is a referendum,

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some MPs have suggested, so the people can

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determine their own future. The problems in Kashmir go

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back to the late 1940s when the area was divided

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between India and Pakistan. Both countries, which

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are now nuclear powers, The dispute has led to two wars

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and frequent conflicts and there has been an escalation of

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violence in recent months. After 70 years of inaction

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since the original resolutions were passed, requiring the conflict

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to be resolved by peaceful democratic means, it is

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easy to see why so many in the Kashmiri community think

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the United Nations has lost He said he appreciated

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the British Government had We wish to be friends

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with both India and Pakistan, but a candid and true friend is one

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who sometimes says things that the other friend

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may find unpalatable. I support my honourable

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friend's motion. This is not a question of supporting

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either the Indian Government or the Pakistani Government -

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it is about supporting Just as he and I campaigned for many

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years for a referendum to decide whether our country should be part

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of and governed by the European Union, surely the people

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of Kashmir should be afforded the same liberty of deciding

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how they want to be David Nuttall agreed that the people

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of Kashmir should have the right A right so historically exercised

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by the people of this country on 23rd of June last year

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when a majority voted No-one believes that there

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is an easy answer, but anything has to be better than having

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a military-controlled line of partition between the two

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neighbouring countries. Khalid Mahmood, the first MP

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of Kashmiri heritage, When a man goes out of a house,

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whether he be a father, a husband or a son, there is no

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guarantee that he will come back We have seen videos on YouTube,

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Facebook and other social media of people being summarily

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beaten up in the streets. by a disproportionate number

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of military personnel and beaten They are tortured and taken

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away, people go missing. In some instances, when they go

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missing, they do not come back. Another MP, whose parents came

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to the UK from Kashmir, talked about the use of pellet guns

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by Indian forces. They spray and maim

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through a six-foot circle. It is impossible to limit

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the number of casualties These are not precision weapons

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or defensive weapons, and their use in open public

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places must constitute That is why we see images

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of soldiers across Kashmir. They are there to protect

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citizens of all stripes. People who want to go to work,

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school, or university are allowed to do so only under the protection

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of the Indian army. Without the protection of Indian

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troops, we can see all too The National Human Rights Commission

:16:19.:16:21.

of India has freely criticised and called for punishments

:16:22.:16:28.

when the rule of law has not been That is not a level of freedom

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allowed to those residents in Pakistan, which is recognised

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as the world s leading The Foreign Office Minister Alok

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Sharma said he was very concerned" about violence

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in Indian-administered Kashmir and that pellet guns had been

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replaced by chilli powder shells. But he said the UK could not

:16:56.:16:59.

prescribe a solution to the situation in Kashmir

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or act as a mediator. MPs have been holding

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their annual debate to mark Holocaust Memorial Day,

:17:05.:17:07.

which falls on Friday Conservative former Cabinet minister

:17:08.:17:08.

Sir Eric Pickles recalled a visit to the Nazi extermination camp

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Treblinka in Poland - and criticised sinister deniers

:17:18.:17:20.

for continuing to say the Holocaust The best estimate is that somewhere

:17:21.:17:23.

between 700,000 and 900,000 Jews and around 2000 Roma were killed

:17:24.:17:37.

in Treblinka's gas chambers. More Jews were killed at Treblinka

:17:38.:17:45.

than at any other Nazi extermination There is a dignified

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monument and carefully laid stones remembering

:17:49.:17:55.

the different communities. I laid a wreath at the site and,

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following the visit, as most politicians do,

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I tweeted my observations. Within minutes, I received

:18:04.:18:07.

a tweet that said, "No one died at Treblinka,

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it was a transit camp. There were no gas chambers,

:18:13.:18:17.

no crematoria, no mass graves." I have no idea whether the person

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who sent me that tweet believed it or not, and it is too easy

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to dismiss this as yet another example of our post-truth world's

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fake news, which is all too prevalent on social media,

:18:34.:18:36.

but I think there is something To forget or belittle

:18:37.:18:39.

continues the holocaust. This month sees the release

:18:40.:18:48.

of the film Denial, which depicts one of the most

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infamous libel trials of the past 20 years involving

:18:54.:18:56.

the American historian, If one looks at the trailer,

:18:57.:19:03.

and at the comments made beneath it, there are thousands

:19:04.:19:13.

of abusive comments claiming Only a few days ago,

:19:14.:19:17.

David Irving claimed a new generation of

:19:18.:19:28.

holocaust sceptics - a fancy way of dressing

:19:29.:19:36.

up holocaust denial. Lord Pearson, has told the House

:19:37.:19:38.

of Lords that, "We don't want to go on letting in Bulgarian

:19:39.:19:47.

and Romanian gangsters He was speaking during a question

:19:48.:19:50.

about housing provision where a minister had been asked how

:19:51.:19:53.

many new homes would be needed to accommodate

:19:54.:19:56.

people coming to the UK. The higher migration

:19:57.:19:59.

scenario of the department's household projections shows

:20:00.:20:01.

that there are projected to be an average of 243,000

:20:02.:20:03.

new households forming each year Net migration accounts

:20:04.:20:05.

for an estimated 45% of this growth. In the main scenario,

:20:06.:20:11.

there are projected to be an average of 210,000 households forming

:20:12.:20:14.

per year, of which 37% A crossbench peer put

:20:15.:20:20.

the figure differently. It would mean building a home every

:20:21.:20:28.

five minutes, night and day, for new arrivals until such time

:20:29.:20:31.

as we get those numbers down. I know there is a strong view

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in the house that there is a lot All I'm pointing out is that it also

:20:40.:21:02.

calls. -- costs. It's a two-year cycle. We will next review it at the

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end of this year when some of the scenarios may well change because of

:21:10.:21:14.

the impact of the period of Brexit. The noble lord is absolutely right

:21:15.:21:18.

about the challenge of building more houses. That is certainly true. Most

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of that, as I said, is not to do with migration.

:21:23.:21:25.

My Lords, do the Government believe our National Health Service

:21:26.:21:28.

and our social care arrangements can survive...?

:21:29.:21:29.

That heckle coming from Labour's Lord Foulkes.

:21:30.:21:38.

My Lords, I have never denied that we need migrants, it is just

:21:39.:21:44.

that we do not want to go on letting in Bulgarian and Romanian

:21:45.:21:47.

Does the Government believe our NHS and social care can survive this

:21:48.:21:56.

sort of increase with their present funding arrangements,

:21:57.:21:58.

or do we have to consider something more radical for the longer term?

:21:59.:22:05.

My Lords, if I may try to address the joint

:22:06.:22:09.

question asked by the noble lords, Lord Pearson and Lord Foulkes,

:22:10.:22:15.

it is certainly the case that, across broad sections of public

:22:16.:22:17.

life, certainly including the NHS, we are heavily dependent on people

:22:18.:22:20.

Net migration will probably fall as a result of Brexit,

:22:21.:22:31.

but it will be some time before that happens.

:22:32.:22:33.

Still, we face all sorts of challenges in seeking

:22:34.:22:35.

Does the coming to power of Donald Trump in the US mean

:22:36.:22:47.

we could end up eating inferior food in the UK?

:22:48.:22:50.

That was suggestion at the start of the day

:22:51.:22:52.

The Commons was looking at how Britain's departure from the EU

:22:53.:22:56.

will impact on food, farming and the rural

:22:57.:22:58.

President-elect Trump spoke last week of the UK securing a very quick

:22:59.:23:05.

trade deal with the US once it has left the EU, which has led to fears

:23:06.:23:09.

that that could mean harsh compromises on issues such

:23:10.:23:11.

as the environment, animal welfare laws and food safety.

:23:12.:23:15.

Will the Secretary of State today reassure the house and people

:23:16.:23:18.

across the United Kingdom that any trade deal with the US will not

:23:19.:23:21.

involve such compromises, which would jeopardise our food

:23:22.:23:31.

Will she reassure us that she understands that a very

:23:32.:23:38.

quick deal is not necessarily the same as a very good deal

:23:39.:23:41.

The party on this side of the house is the only party that made a

:23:42.:23:46.

commitment to reflect animal welfare standards

:23:47.:23:52.

in trade negotiations, and that remains a commitment

:23:53.:23:53.

of the Government. There are opportunities for our

:23:54.:23:55.

agricultural sector in the US, particularly in sectors such

:23:56.:23:57.

as dairy, and possibly in sectors My colleagues in the Department

:23:58.:24:00.

for International Trade will obviously lead on these matters

:24:01.:24:03.

once we leave the European Union, but there will be potential

:24:04.:24:06.

opportunities for UK 90% of our beef and lamb export in

:24:07.:24:17.

this country are to the EU. So, the Prime Minister's threat to walk away

:24:18.:24:21.

from the single market with no deal for them would not be bad, it could

:24:22.:24:27.

leave them facing tariffs of up to 20% and that could be catastrophic.

:24:28.:24:31.

What assurances will there be to the farmers and crofters that the

:24:32.:24:35.

Government will not leave them exposed in this way? Well, I think

:24:36.:24:38.

the Prime Minister gave the assurance that we are seeking a good

:24:39.:24:43.

deal and no deal is better than a bad deal, which I then think anyone

:24:44.:24:48.

can disagree with. As the free ourselves from the Common

:24:49.:24:51.

agricultural problem that has added so many your graphic burdens to our

:24:52.:24:54.

farmers, what assessment has my honourable friend made of the

:24:55.:24:57.

financial burden that our farmers are facing as a result of the common

:24:58.:25:03.

agricultural policy and what extra freedom will this mean for our

:25:04.:25:08.

farmers any future? Unnecessary rules cost farmers millions of

:25:09.:25:14.

pounds and up to 3 million -- 300,000 man hours. I will be paying

:25:15.:25:20.

very close attention to these in the coming months as they look to better

:25:21.:25:24.

solutions for us rather than 28 EU states. Full Andrea Leadsom.

:25:25.:25:28.

And that's it from me for now, but do join me on Friday night at 11

:25:29.:25:32.

for a round up of the week here at Westminster -

:25:33.:25:35.

including a lively debate between Conservative,

:25:36.:25:36.

Sir Bill Cash and the Lib Dems Lady Ludford

:25:37.:25:39.

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