20/07/2017 Thursday in Parliament

Hello and welcome to the programme on the last day that Parliament sits

before the summer recess. Coming up, MPs are told new homes are on the

way for the rental tower survivors. The row over BBC pages spilled over

into the House of Lords and there is an admission from one of the

Conservative Party's big beast. I'm an animal, which all animals and

therefore I care. -- we are all animals. I'm predominantly

herbivorous. More from Michael Gove later. First the community Secretary

Sajid Javid has said permanent new homes will be ready for survivors of

the Grenfell Tower fire within days. Updating MPs ahead of the summer

break he appealed for anyone with information about how money people

may have been in the block on the night of the fire to come forward.

His comments came after survivors and their families heckled the new

leader of Kensington and Chelsea at an emotional meeting of the council.

We saw last night the very raw anger that some in the community still

feel towards the Council. It is entirely understandable as the Prime

Minister has up has said, the initial response from the local

authority was simply not good enough. There is not a lot of trust

there, not a lot of confidence and that is wide, want Kensington and

Chelsea Council takes over the recovery operation, it will do so

under the supervision of the independent grin full recovery task

force. He did everyone who had lost their home had been made an offer of

good quality accommodation. As of 10am this morning, 35 had been

accepted and ten families have moved in. Those numbers are slightly down

on the figures published recently as some people have changed their mind

as they are perfectly entitled to do so. Where residents have turned down

an offer we are finding suitable alternatives for them. 169 families

lost their homes in Grenfell Tower what but only ten have moved out of

emergency hotels and hostels and 25 more have been offered a temporary

home they feel they can accept. I accept the reasons may be complex

but can I tell the Secretary of State I'm still getting reports of

residents told they will be made intentionally homeless if they

refuse an offer despite the government's word this will not

happen. Resident offered accommodation with damp, leeks and

lack of full finishing, residents shown summer with too few fit

bedrooms for children and also being made an offer but then told the

details will only follow afterwards. Constituents and members of the

public say, what was going on in it a well the borough that they don't

seem able to cope with such a disaster on their doorstep? I ask

the Minister, was this just the feeling of one out of touch Tory

council or is it an endemic problem and what steps are the government

taking to make sure that such an inept and incompetent response to

such a terrible disaster could not happen again in what is really a

very wealthy area. This morning I met a number of local government

leaders who said they were completely in the dark about the

circumstances in which government would help them pay for essential

work on tower blocks. The secretary of State has said that local

authorities should go ahead and if they can't afford to pay for it than

in those circumstances government for help. He noted that the funding

comes out of the housing revenue account, rents are capped, borrowing

is capped so for many authorities the only way to pay for extra work

on tower blocks is to stop doing important work on other properties.

We'll secretary of state -- will be cyclic estate except that that is a

circumstance in which central government will pay and help local

authorities? It is the legal responsible at the local authorities

and housing associations to make sure properties are safe and that is

something they should already have been doing and where they have found

that might not be the case and they need to take action they should take

it and as I've said before, if they need help with that and cannot

afford it they approach us but so far are not aware of the single

local authority that has done so. Electrical safety is paramount

importance and it would appear that in the Grenfell Tower incident it

was caused by a fire in a fridge freezer. We'll be secretary of state

commit to introducing mandatory electrical safety checks in rented

properties bearing in mind that the DCLG working group that was looking

at this has concluded? I can tell the honourable gentleman this is an

issue of electrical safety products including product recalls that right

honourable friend the Business Secretary is looking at and I will

make sure he knows the honourable gentleman's concerns. This will have

a huge impact on an aspect of future government policy. I have always

been a passionate believer in the important role of urban regeneration

in holistic housing policy but will he confirm that in future when

schemes come forward we will learn the lessons of what happened at

Grenfell Tower in the wider of housing policy and ensure that those

lessons are learned and we have the most robust fire measures in place?

My honourable friend is absolutely right, there are many lessons to

learn from this terrible tragedy and we have talked about a number in

this has but one of those is certainly our wider longer-term

approach to social housing. Sajid Javid. Last week Theresa May

announced an enquiry into what is known as the contaminated blood

scandal. Thousands of haemophiliacs and other patients were given blood

products infected with hepatitis C and HIV in the 1970s and 80s. Over

two dozen people have died. The Labour MP Diana Johnson is a leading

campaigner for the victims of the scandal and she welcomed the inquiry

but told the Commons that she and many others were dismayed to see

that the Department of Health was in charge of establishing it. The

Department of Health, an integrated party at the heart of so much that

has gone wrong over the past 45 years, must have no role in how this

inquiry is established. It is akin in my view to asking South Yorkshire

Police to lead an enquiry into the Hillsborough disaster and I regret

that the government has not been able to understand that by putting

the Department of Health in charge at this time it immediately

undermined their excellent position to call a public enquiry last week

and in consequence contaminated blood campaigners boycotted a

meeting organised by the Department of Health at 10am today in protest.

Another department must surely take over responsibility for consulting

on the remit of this inquiry. The health minister said no decision had

yet been made on which department would fund the inquiry. As for the

meeting... The Secretary of State called this meeting because we want

to hear directly from the victims about what they want from this

inquiry. We are in listening mode, the

decision has not been taken which department will run it but

ultimately it is the minister I'm accountable to Parliament for what

happened in the Department of Health for those areas which are under my

responsibility and I want to be leading from the front having those

discussions. Does she agree that perceptions are as important as

reality in this matter and will to take away from this morning the

weight placed by honourable members on both sides of a house that

perhaps it would be perceived to be more objective if some other

department took the lead? A week ago the house united in agreement to

finally facilitate justice for those tragically affected by this scandal

yet recently as we have heard events have shown ministers to renege on

the promises of last week and have run roughshod over the effective

community. You may shake your head but that is at the community feels

and we have spoken to them. The Minister must remember the promises

made last week and ensure consultation is central to this

whole process is otherwise they will fail this community who must have

the justice they so rightly deserve. It is in taking forward this

consultation that we are delivering on the commitments made last week.

We made quite clear that we wanted to get this inquiry going as soon as

possible because frankly these people have waited long enough for

answers. We have not ignored the concerns expressed by many about the

role of the Department of Health in the inquiry and I repeat that no

decision has been made and the Cabinet Office is closely involved

with how we are taking this forward. The minister said the meetings had

been organised as soon as possible and before Parliament's summer

break. Can I ask the Minister to reflect that it is not reasonable to

ask campaign groups from Scotland to attend the meters at two days notice

and can I also ask that given there is a distinct legal system in

Scotland, has there been any thought to that and any discussion with

Scottish campaign groups and the Scottish Government? As I say, that

was the first of what we hope will be many conversations and the

campaign groups in Scotland arrangements were made for them to

dial into the meeting so they could participate. I have already started

discussions with these colours government about how this inquiry

will play out and affect the position in Scotland and I'm pleased

to say we are having those discussions in a spirit of healthy

cooperation and particularly looking at how we can make use of what has

already gone through with the Penrose inquiry. We will continue to

have dialogue and we are sensitive to those issues. You're watching

Thursday in Parliament with me, Alicia McCarthy.

There were some words of support in the House of Lords

who are being paid less than their male colleagues.

There were some criticism too of the large pay packets

The Radio 2 DJ, Chris Evans, is the highest paid,

earning around ?2.2 million last year.

I think we should all be very proud of the BBC as a

standard-bearer and a standard setter for high-quality drama,

entertainment, factual programmes and news and the publication

of the salary levels has received considerable comment,

some perhaps unfair, as other media outlets are not

We don't have any information on competitive context.

However, on the issue of gender pay equality

within the BBC, that criticism appears to be justified.

And whilst Eddie Mair's reference to the male anatomy

on Newsnight last night might be a bit much for your Lordships' House

on the last day of term, it's hard to understand

why the male Y-chromosome justifies a higher salary.

It is significant how many of our most senior, well qualified,

experienced women presenters and journalists are paid so much less

I'm very pleased that the director-general of the BBC has

admitted that this isn't good enough and that he is committed

to narrowing the gap to make it equal by 2020.

We've learned some lessons and I think it remains

to be seen whether the gloomy prognostications of those who think

I was shocked to see that neither Jenni Murray

nor Jane Garvey, who I believe are excellent broadcasters,

were not even mentioned which means they earn less than 150,000 a year.

I think that closing the gender pay gap by 2020

May I congratulate the Government on introducing for the first time...

Will my noble friend not take any solace from opposition

After all, none of the opposition parties have ever seen fit

This party, our party, has had two women prime ministers.

Let them put their actions where their mouths are

My Lords, I always listen to my noble friend and may I say just

as far as I'm concerned, I think I'm in an interesting position.

I serve a female Prime Minister,

I'm answering a question from a female

In my department, there is a female Secretary of State,

a female permanent Secretary, a female Government whip

When I go home after a very pleasurable day,

I go home to a wife and four daughters.

Some of the salaries are not just large,

they are extraordinarily large by any standards.

And when you contrast that with the public servants

who are dealing with life and death issues day by day,

have got really seriously out of order at this time?

And could the noble Lord Minister use his influence

to indicate to the BBC that frankly this talk about,

"we could lose these fantastic talents," why not?

The culture secretary has said she is still minded

to refer Rupert Murdoch's 21st Century Fox takeover

Updating MPs, Karen Bradley said she was yet to reach a final decision

which could take some weeks and could happen while MPs

Mr Murdoch owns 39% of the satellite broadcaster and has

proposed an ?11.7 billion deal to take full control of Sky.

Several MPs argued that no decision should

be announced while MPs are away from Westminster.

to make my final decision on referral.

What I can do, however, is confirm to the House that having

carefully reviewed the parties' representations and in the absence

of further proposed undertakings, I am currently still minded to refer

The media watchdog Ofcom has said the takeover

risks giving the Murdoch family increased influence over

the UK's news agenda and the political process.

Unless new evidence from other representations changes

my mind in the coming weeks, the bid will therefore be referred

to a face to review on at least one ground, media plurality.

I thought it would be helpful to set out my current view

to the House, given the public interest to this case, and also to

the parties so that they can be as clear as possible

about my intentions and the likely next steps for this bid.

Bearing in mind the obligation to act promptly as part

of this quasi judicial process, I expect I will be in a position

to come to a final decision of referral, including in respect to

the broadcasting standards ground, in the coming weeks and

This is one piece of Government indecision that we welcome.

It is right that the Secretary of State is taking

her quasi judicial responsibilities seriously.

She will be aware that whatever decision she makes, there

is a strong possibility of judicial review by one side or the other.

No doubt, that has influenced her decision to tread carefully and

It is not her job to operate to 21st Century Fox's corporate timetable.

They have to abide by the parliamentary timetable

and she should demonstrate to them that she is,

as an elected representative of the people,

The fact that a decision will likely be during summer recess

speaks to a developing pattern, Mr Speaker, that we have seen

during the election with major decisions being made

It means it's being kicked into the long grass

and members in this House will not get an opportunity

The committees of the House are yet to set and there

should be an opportunity for those committees,

relevant committees, to scrutinise any decision made.

The beginning of September, she can come back

after having a good summer, and scrutinising the issues

I think it's the right thing to do and she shouldn't,

as my right honourable friend said, give in to the old tricks

of the Murdochs, which is to try and bully people

into making wrong decisions and rushed decisions.

I have said in my statement, I may make a decision

over the course of the summer recess, but it may take longer.

I am taking the time to look at all representations, including the

representation from the right honourable gentleman

and the other right honourable gentleman who isn't here

to make sure that we do consider all those points

and I will look at the evidence and make a decision

The elections watchdog has said that reports of people voting more

than once in June's election are troubling,

but there is little evidence of widespread abuse.

The Electoral Commission has said 38 MPs have

highlighted people, including students, claiming to have voted

It said individual electoral registers is by councils should be

better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

Well, the whole issue of how boundaries are drawn up

and who is included on the electoral register was raised by MPs

2.9 million new people registered to vote as part of

a record electorate this past general election and a similar spike

So surely we should now heed the Electoral Commission's own

recommendation that these boundary reviews should take place

after major electoral events to take these new people

into account and make sure that the 2022 election is not

fought on harking back to outmoded things in 2015.

The current view of parliamentary constituencies is a matter

for the boundary commission, but the Electoral Commission has however

previously recommended that Parliament and the boundary

commission should consider whether it would be more appropriate

to base future reviews on electric data taken from the registers used

for elections instead of the register published

It's quite clear that it's perfectly reasonable for students and others

to be registered in two places if they're residents normally in both.

Would she agree with me, that it's sensible to take one in 100

of the late registrations, check with other districts whether they're

double registered and whether there is double voting.

That will give us scope as to whether or not

and how much fraud there was during the last election.

I'm sure the Electoral Commission will take heed

of the honourable gentleman's suggestion, but the Commission does

take very seriously any suggestion that individuals voted twice.

However, there is so far little evidence of widespread abuse

As the honourable gentleman points out, in certain

circumstances it is possible for someone to be locally

registered to vote in more than one place, including students

However, it is a criminal offence to pass more than one vote

on their behalf in a UK Parliamentary general election.

The commission is correct to highlight the discrepancy between

the 1st of December assessment of what an electorate is

In my constituency, the difference was 8000

in terms of the 2015 election, which is over 10%.

Would she welcome an investigation

by the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee

into the ongoing way that we deal with that discrepancy?

I'm sure it will be a matter for the committee

and its new members when it is constituted to consider

the best way to look at the issues,

but I think we all want to make sure that registers are as

complete as possible, that people aren't missed out

and we don't see a reduction in the number

of people registered to vote so that when

the boundary commission considers Parliamentary

they do so on the best available registers that they can have.

Now to environment questions, where animal welfare

and fox hunting came up for discussion.

A Conservative backbencher wanted to know...

Will the Government commit to increase

the penalties for people convicted of animal cruelty?

It's something I'm actively reviewing.

As the honourable gentleman knows, I'm not someone

who will automatically reach for stronger criminal sanctions

as the only route to dealing with a particular problem,

but there are particular cases of animal cruelty where we may well

need to revisit the existing criminal sanctions in order to make

sure that the very worst behaviour is dealt with

Across the country, complaints are still frequently made

to the police concerning the killing and chasing

of foxes and hares by hounds which are part of organised hunts.

What steps will the Secretary of State take to ensure

better enforcement of the Hunting Act which clearly represents

The law of the land must always be enforced without fear or favour.

While another MP wanted assurances that animals would still be

Can my right honourable friend confirm that

Article 13 of the Lisbon Treaty, which categorises animals as

sentient beings, will be part of the Repeal Bill?

Before we entered the European Union, we recognised

in our own legislation that animals were sentient beings

and I am an animal, we're all animals,

and therefore I care... LAUGHTER

I'm predominantly herbivorous, I should add, however.

But it's an absolutely vital commitment that we have

to ensure that all creation is maintained, enhanced and protected.

Labour's Ben Bradshaw raised a recent outburst on Twitter

by Michael Gove's former political adviser Dominic Cummings

who was also the campaign director for Vote Leave.

In his tweets, Dominic Cummings was less than complimentary

about the Brexit secretary David Davis.

Is "as thick as mince, lazy as a toad and as vain as Narcissus"

an appropriate description to use of a fellow Cabinet member?

And if hard Brexiteers in our Government are falling out

in this way, Mr Speaker, how on earth

can the Secretary of State expect our European Union partners

The right honourable gentleman, I'm sure is aware,

that we're working well together in Government.

And I don't recognise the description that he just gave

The Lib Dem former Business Secretary Vince Cable

has been announced as the new Liberal Democrat leader.

He takes over from Tim Farron, who stepped

down from the job after the June general election.

Dr Cable lost his Commons seat at the 2015 general election,

regaining it in the election in June.

No other candidate stood for the job.

Finally, what with the announcement of the new Doctor Who and the row

over gender equality pay at the BBC, the shadow Leader of the Commons

argued women seemed to have been in the news a lot over

So, Valerie Vaz used the last business questions of the session

to pay tribute to some inspirational women in politics

Their inspiration lives on in the six schoolgirls from the

Afghan robotics team who beat the Trump ban and took silver medal

England's cricket team in the World Cup final

and the football team in Euro 2017 this Sunday.

The honourable member for Livingston, I think

played alongside some of the Scottish team.

Maybe she should have been in the team.

And this month, Madam Deputy Speaker, we celebrate 100 years

but we're now driving the Tardis.

But the Leader of the Commons came unstuck when she joined

in the tributes, referring to the design of the new ?10 note.

May I join with the honourable lady in celebrating

the achievements of women, not least of which yourself

in that chair, Deputy Speaker, the honourable lady opposite and may

to her place as the new shadow deputy leader

and I very much wish her every success

and look forward to working with her.

I would just add one other great lady to that

lovely list who I'm delighted to join in celebrating and that's

that of Jane Austen, who will feature

on the new ?10 note which I think is another...

Greatest ever authors! Greatest ever authors.

And that's it from us for now, but do join me on Friday night

at 11pm for our round-up of the week including a chat

with three leading experts on what we have learned so far

about the shape of this Parliament and what to expect

when MPs and peers return in the autumn.

But for now, from me, Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.