15/12/2015 Tuesday in Parliament


15/12/2015

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Hello and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament -

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The human cost of the recent floods is laid bare

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as MPs debate water defences and climate change.

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Parents are now telling me that their children are too

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frightened to go to sleep in case it happens again.

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The chief executive of Talk Talk tells MPs more needs to be

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done to get to grips with criminal activity online.

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exponentially and we all need to generation.

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exponentially and we all need to know more and learn more.

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And Tim Peake's space flight sparks a bit of pre-Christmas levity

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I think it is most unfortunate. I know it is the festive season but

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honourable members opposite are singing and it is not good.

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The government's been accused of letting communities down over

:01:06.:01:07.

the recent flooding in the north of England and Scottish borders.

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In a debate called by Labour, the Shadow Environment Secretary

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said not enough was being done in the UK to tackle climate change,

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and said ministers needed to look beyond flood defences with a focus

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Will she assured that there is more coordination with the Department for

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Transport, that our financial services do not keep investing in

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fossil fuels? And will see stop making short-term cuts to

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renewables, ignoring the long-term financial and human costs. Expert at

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the export is warning that this government is failing on climate

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change and failing to protect people from flooding. They are letting down

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communities dreading the next heavy rainfall and flooding down future

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generations will bear the brunt of climate change. The reality is

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without a strong economy under a Conservative government we wouldn't

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have money for these crucial schemes. Our party is investing in

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new power stations and making sure we had the energy supplies while

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reducing carbon emissions. It is our party that is investing to make this

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country more resilient and adapt to climate change and extreme weather.

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The party opposite have no plan. They shout these decisions when they

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were in office and they wasted our money. The damage and disruption

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caused by the flood has still been significant. The Scottish Government

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made it clear from the start that this game would be made to fund

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repair work. They also emphasised that money is available to fund a

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full flood prevention scheme. Preferred scheme has been chosen and

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we are now moving to detailed design. It is critical to get this

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right, as are only bold scheme can fail and even make things worse.

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She was the host of the high ambition coalition between developed

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and vulnerable countries, and her office was its headquarters.

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She deserves credit for the very constructive role that she played.

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Having said that, when I listened to her statement yesterday, I felt,

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while I do not want to be unfair to her, that her position

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was somewhat to say, Everything has changed and nothing

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has changed. In other words, internationally everything has

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changed, with high ambitions, zero emissions and all that stuff,

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but for the UK things are the same as before.

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Climate change is clearly not an esoteric matter, although some

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The impact on my constituency, throughout my county and on other

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The impact on the families who will be out of their homes

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at Christmas, the hundreds upon hundreds of children

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who are not able to look forward to Christmas at home,

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First, I express my sympathy to all those victims of floods.

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Monmouthshire has been affected by flooding in the past,

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of course, and all those who helped with the clean-up.

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However, I take issue with the idea that man-made climate change has

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It is unfortunate that the two issues have been mixed up.

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We have had few debates about global warming and climate change.

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Climate change has been with us for millions of years,

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I urge the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change to ask

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a few hard questions of those who are frankly displaying some

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Sue Hayman described what she had seen after the flooding. Last week I

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stood with a family standing on their soaked carpet.

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I stood inside homes in Cockermouth that stank of diesel oil.

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I watched families in Workington throw decorated Christmas

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I visited the flooded village school in Brigham and went to the town

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Parents are now telling me that their children are too

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frightened to go to sleep in case it happens again.

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Cyber attacks are the crime of our generation, TalkTalk's Dido Harding

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The firm's chief executive was answering questions

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about the cyber attack on TalkTalk's website on 21 October.

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Hackers accessed the personal details of 157,000 customers.

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Five people have been arrested and bailed in connection

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Ms Harding defended the company's security arrangements to the Culture

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Could I just begin by apologising again to all of the customers of

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talk talk for the concern and the inevitable uncertainty that this

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event has called. None of us know enough and I think any chief

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executive who looks you in the eye and said they know enough about the

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subject, it means they haven't gotten up about it yet. This is a

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cybercrime, it is the crime of our generation and it is growing

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exponentially and we all need to know more and learn more. A lot of

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people have written to us and says to us that you are simply not

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looking after them, and it makes them very cross with you as a

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company. You are not compensating them. Why are you not issuing

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adequate compensation? Well, I fully appreciate that customers worry and

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frustrated and many of them contact me directly to express those

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emotions. Anyone who is directly lost money as a direct consequence

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of this criminal attack, we absolutely wish to talk to them and

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deal with that on a case-by-case basis. And you will compensate them?

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I am not aware who of anyone who has directly lost anyone as a result of

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the attack. Ms Harding would not say how much

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money TalkTalk allocated to its security budget,

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but she did say she believed the attack would cost

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the company ?30 to ?35 million. If this had been a physical ram raid

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on a store, and that say it was one where not only goods were stolen but

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customers were beaten up, to try and get the analogy, I think the first

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thing that you would ask of the retailer is, where they following

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all of the appropriate health and safety and security regulations?

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Once they have demonstrated that they had, you would assume they were

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victims of a crime. The difference between the physical and the digital

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world is what counts as appropriate health and safety and security as a

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benchmark is something that we are all working out at the moment, there

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isn't that a group is an asymmetry, it is greater in the digital world,

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between companies who have to if 100% of the time and cybercriminals

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who only had to get lucky once. The way the digital world works is that

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all of the tools, it is like all of your potential cybercriminals

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worldwide, they all have access to the equivalent of a Kalashnikov and

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a nuclear bomb because it is cut and paste and sitting in the dark web

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for free. Dido Harding described how

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the events of the hack unfolded. After the attack, she received

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a ransom demand by email. She said the day after the hack,

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she decided the sensible thing to do I was clear that I needed to warn

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all my customers, that I could do something about it to help protect

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my customers. If the story you have painted, they must be a risk there

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that there are other companies, but will a similar amount of data, we

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received a similar e-mail asking for a ransom to paid and they pay it and

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no one would be any the wiser. I think there is that risk. If I may

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just finished my timeline, I was clear by the lunchtime on the

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Thursday that the sensible thing to do to protect the customers was to

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warn all of them because I could have made them safer. I could give

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them free credit monitoring. I could warn them not to accept these scum

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calls. For completely understandable reasons, scam calls. The advice we

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received from the Metropolitan Police was not to tell our

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customers. I totally understand why the police wanted to stay quiet

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because they have different objective, they want to catch the

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criminals. On the day when a Brit

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blasted off into space, an unexpected burst of singing

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on the green benches - perhaps to celebrate,

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or perhaps just sparked off But ahead of that space oddity,

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it was business as usual at Question Time - with MPs considering how

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to increase exports. Can he tell me how his department

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plans to make good use of our new trade relationship with China to

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help small businesses expand into these vital global markets? Can I

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commend Right Honourable friend on her efforts to encourage businesses

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in her own constituency to export more to China? While exports to

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China have doubled in the last five years, there is a lot more we can

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do, the recent visit by the Chinese president I think helped highlight

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that. The efforts that she is making with UK G8 and see BBC and others I

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think is an example to us. I was talking recently to a senior Indian

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business and I asked him how can we increase trade with India? He said

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the one thing you could do is the EU. Would the Secretary of State,

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either has Secretary of State, or personally, endorse these comments

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Chris Agro -- last week I was speaking to a lot of Indian

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businessmen and women and Indian students and I think we can

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certainly increase our exports to India in education. It is all very

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well but it is not working because the latest trade deficit is

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widening. Up to ?2.4 billion last quarter. Exports of goods, perhaps

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ministers should listen to this, exports of goods the UK actually

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fell last month by ?709. It is a pity we can't exports being because

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the Government is very good at that. What is his excuse for the dismal

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record on the trade deficit? The honourable gentleman shouldn't do

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down our world-class exporters. They are doing a fantastic job, and I

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will give you a few examples of what they can export. They can export

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wine to France, chocolate to Belgium, even export boomerangs to

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Australia. I feared it is the same boomerang that keeps coming back.

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Can I say that the United Kingdom space sector, we have heard this

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great news about the launch today, Major Tim going up into space.

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Ground control can report that the UK space sector is almost doubled to

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11.8 billion... Mr Speaker, I figured it is most unfortunate, I

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know it is the festive season but honourable members opposite are now

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singing and it is not good, but it has doubled, it is important. I hope

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they might cheer these facts. ?11.8 billion in just seven years,

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employing 37,000 people. Seeing, but no member of this House can match

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David Bowie. I am irrelevant as far as ground control is concerned. Can

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I add our best wishes and congratulations to Major Tim Peakes.

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The first British just cannot to reach the International Space

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Station. Can I also paid tribute to Helen Sharman who was the first

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button to go into space. Let us all do our bit to -- Britain. In the

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same way that the moon landings inspired my generation. Yesterday

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the member for North Shropshire described the Prime Minister's

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negotiations as froth and nonsense and the Prime Minister's approach to

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his endless negotiations have been described as a shambles. Does the

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Secretary of State agree with UK business or the Eurosceptics on his

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own side? Firstly, if I may just associate myself with the comments

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the honourable lady made about Major Tim Peakes mission and how he is an

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inspiration for us all. Hopefully we can get more people interested in

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science. About the European Union, what I agree with is with almost all

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businesses that I have met, they want to see reform and changes in

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our relationship with the EU and they want to see it more

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competitive, easier trade deals, quicker and deeper trade deals, a

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deeper single market and less bureaucracy. I'm sure she agrees

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with that too and that is what we are fighting for.

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The Labour MP Frank Field, who worked with the Labour

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and coalition governments on welfare reform and poverty,

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has called for local authorities to seek out children eligible

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for free school meals, rather than waiting for parents to apply.

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He said there were children who were falling through the net -

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and housing benefit data could be used to make sure that children had

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the meal they were entitled to at school.

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I view the world I grew up in rather like a train journey. There were

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different compartments to that train, reflecting our social

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classes, particularly in England, it was a first-class compartment,

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second, third and fourth. But the crucial thing about this train

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journey was that we were all on board, and we were all heading

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towards a better tomorrow. In the past decade or so, the last

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carriage, that was class carriage, has become detached from the train

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journey to rest of us are on. Last night, in each of our

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constituencies, a large number of children went to bed hungry and took

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that hunger to school with them. The Secretary of State for Education, to

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her credit, it is concerned about this, and is concerned about the

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numbers of children who appear eligible for free school meals but

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get no hot meal at the beginning of the day. And she has a task force

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which is looking at good practice and trying to spread good practice.

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But we all know how long it sometimes takes for good practice to

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be spread. Already I think we have a record number of 126 members from

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all sides of the House with all kinds of opinions, wishing for this

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Bill to proceed. It is of course in the power of the Secretary of State

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to beat the Bill and seek these powers herself. It would not by

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itself, that move, bring a happy, more prosperous Christmas to those

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children, but it would lay the basis that, come the New Year, there would

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be fewer hungry children in Britain today than there are today, and I

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seek a leave of the Houston to introduce the Bill.

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His bill has little chance of becoming law without support

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But Frank Field stressed it had been supported by 125 MPs from parties

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across the Commons and urged the government to introduce

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A point he was making up to the very end.

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Free school meals, automatic legislation of eligible children.

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The 22nd of January, 2016. In case people didn't here, unless the

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Secretary of State acts before then. The Speaker there, noting

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a hint when he hears one. You're watching

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Tuesday in Parliament. Still to come: Peers agree that

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people with Downs Syndrome have been let down by society, in the words

:17:27.:17:29.

of the minister, "forever." MPs have accused the Director

:17:30.:17:35.

of Public Prosecutions of being "complacent"

:17:36.:17:37.

and being in "a bubble." Alison Saunders was appearing before

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the Justice Committee when she was challenged over

:17:42.:17:44.

the standard of prosecutors in court and the treatment of victims

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and their families. I'm concerned there may be

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an element of complacency because in February 2015,

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the report on the investigation on prosecution of fatal road traffic

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incidents by Her Majesty's CPSI found that the overall standard

:18:02.:18:05.

of communication was poor in 75% of cases and they noted

:18:06.:18:12.

that there was no specialist training of prosecutors,

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so isn't it right that the CPS needs to do a better job in respect

:18:21.:18:23.

of fatal road traffic accidents? I think we have a standard

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that we should meet with bereaved families in any case

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and we have a higher standard of care to make sure we are meeting

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them and understanding the issues. All fatal road traffic

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accidents should go through a Deputy Crown Prosecutor

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for sign-off whether we are prosecuting them or not and those

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Deputy Crown Prosecutors have been trained and meet regularly

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so that they can talk to each other as well about issues including legal

:18:51.:18:55.

issues around fatal road traffic cases and therefore we have our most

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senior and experienced lawyers working on those cases

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and signing them off. So you're saying

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there is no problem? There is always room for improvement

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no matter how good we get. One of the most depressing things

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that anyone can possibly do is to go to court and see the standard

:19:15.:19:18.

of the Crown Prosecutors. Half of which, particularly

:19:19.:19:20.

magistrates' courts, where it is little

:19:21.:19:21.

more than a shambles. You have Crown Prosecution,

:19:22.:19:29.

and you can see they're literally reading the case file out

:19:30.:19:34.

for the first time cos they have never seen it before

:19:35.:19:37.

reading it out in court. It is a shambles and if a victim

:19:38.:19:41.

is actually sat there coming to see their bit of justice

:19:42.:19:50.

being done, what must they think when they see a Crown Prosecutor

:19:51.:19:53.

reading it out for the first time Do you not think you're a bit

:19:54.:19:56.

complacent about the standards No, I've never said there is nothing

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we can learn and if you go to magistrates now, you won't see

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prosecutors shuffling papers because papers are no

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longer in existence The majority of cases are now

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transferred digitally. I'm not being complacent at all,

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but what happens are those If they're going to guilty plea

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courts, they go in and they're dealt In some places around the country,

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less than 3% of cases are going with presentence reports,

:20:22.:20:30.

most are dealt with there and then and we can see from national figures

:20:31.:20:33.

that the number of hearings For not guilty plea cases,

:20:34.:20:37.

they are being dealt with at the first date of hearing

:20:38.:20:43.

because we are talking to the defence, the defence have

:20:44.:20:45.

papers, particularly digitally where we know their addresses

:20:46.:20:48.

and can send them the papers securely and we are able

:20:49.:20:53.

to list cases for trials. In some areas, we are having reports

:20:54.:20:56.

from the magistrates' courts, and from the police and prosecutors

:20:57.:21:00.

that the number of trials has been If we can put that out

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across the country and have that consistently, it would make a huge

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difference to the way in which justice is delivered

:21:10.:21:12.

and also the number of guilty plea sentences on the first hearing

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is going up. With respect, I think

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you are in a bubble, probably being told what you want to hear

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because actually every magistrate there is will tell

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you there are prosecutors reading of the case for the first time

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and that is unacceptable and you really should

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know about that. I go to court quite frequently

:21:28.:21:33.

and talk to magistrates frequently. I have regular meetings

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with magistrates' chairs, magistrates' benches,

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magistrates' associations as well as other colleagues,

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so I'm told very quickly. I have many ways of

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assessing performance. We have a very large suite

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of performance measures which we go through, we have local and national

:21:52.:21:54.

criminal justice boards, so I would very much hope

:21:55.:21:58.

I am not in a bubble. A hospital trust has apologised

:21:59.:22:00.

for placing a "do not resuscitate" or DNR order on a patient

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with Down's Syndrome - and listing his learning

:22:06.:22:07.

difficulties among the reasons The family of Andrew Waters was not

:22:08.:22:09.

consulted or informed and found out only after he was discharged

:22:10.:22:19.

from hospital in 2011. His case was raised

:22:20.:22:21.

in the House of Lords. My Lords, in considering Mencap's

:22:22.:22:27.

estimate that 1,200 people with learning difficulties die

:22:28.:22:29.

needlessly in NHS care every year, will the Minister look

:22:30.:22:31.

at the inspiring work of the Blue Apple Theatre company,

:22:32.:22:35.

which includes actors with Down's syndrome performing either Hamlet

:22:36.:22:42.

or their play Living Without Fear, which was staged in Mr Speaker's

:22:43.:22:46.

House, and then consider how best we can counter a slide

:22:47.:22:49.

into eugenics, discrimination and non-resuscitation orders,

:22:50.:22:52.

as in the case of Andrew Waters, and look for ways to promote

:22:53.:22:55.

positive and life-affirming attitudes towards people

:22:56.:22:57.

with Down s syndrome? Perhaps I could address first

:22:58.:23:04.

the particular issue of Andrew The doctor who signed the DNR

:23:05.:23:06.

order was a junior doctor It was a misjudgement,

:23:07.:23:12.

he apologised for that mistake, and he has learnt from it

:23:13.:23:19.

by using his experience to teach other doctors how to deal

:23:20.:23:22.

with similar issues. It is important to make that

:23:23.:23:26.

statement first ` the reaction of that junior doctor was the right

:23:27.:23:29.

one, having made that mistake. Does the Minister know how

:23:30.:23:33.

widespread such discrimination is against people with

:23:34.:23:35.

learning difficulties? What reassurance can he give

:23:36.:23:37.

to parents such as those I met recently in the House

:23:38.:23:40.

of Commons Dining Room, who were terrified to allow

:23:41.:23:46.

their disabled son to go into hospital because they knew

:23:47.:23:48.

they were going to be put under They were also afraid that,

:23:49.:23:52.

even if they refused but were not at his bedside 24 hours a day,

:23:53.:23:59.

it would happen anyway. I have no evidence that this

:24:00.:24:03.

is a systemic problem, but it is absolutely the case

:24:04.:24:06.

that this group of very vulnerable people have been let down not just

:24:07.:24:13.

by doctors and clinicians but actually by all of us `

:24:14.:24:18.

the whole of society, for ever. The report produced three weeks ago

:24:19.:24:21.

called Building the Right Support recognised that we have let down

:24:22.:24:25.

this group for decades, and I hope that over the next five

:24:26.:24:28.

years we can start to make amends. The assumption that pregnant women

:24:29.:24:35.

who are expecting a baby with Down's syndrome will abort that

:24:36.:24:38.

child affects public As one woman with Down's syndrome

:24:39.:24:40.

put it when speaking at a conference on prenatal diagnosis,

:24:41.:24:50.

"You want to kill us", which is a hard perspective

:24:51.:24:53.

for an adult with Down's I am grateful to the Minister

:24:54.:24:56.

for picking up the point that medical nursing students need

:24:57.:25:00.

to learn from people with learning disabilities, so that

:25:01.:25:02.

their attitudes change. That familiarity with and being

:25:03.:25:06.

comfortable with people with learning disabilities

:25:07.:25:08.

will change things. The minister agreed,

:25:09.:25:12.

saying that medical training was not just about passing exams,

:25:13.:25:14.

but learning how to deal Kristina Cooper's here

:25:15.:25:16.

for the rest of the week,

:25:17.:25:23.

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