01/03/2016 Tuesday in Parliament


01/03/2016

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Hello and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament.

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On this programme:

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The Chancellor's accused of teeing up Project Fear

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when it comes to the economic impact of Brexit, but George Osborne

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insists he's only repeating what big independent institutions think.

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British exit would both cause an immediate economic shock

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and have longer economic costs.

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MPs hear from a former sex worker who says the laws on

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prostitution need to change.

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And there's a call to allow the Welsh to decide how to mark

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St David's Day.

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This Saint David's Day report did put the village of Llandewi Breffi

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on the map long before the contemporary Daffyd

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of Little Britain fame.

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But first, once again, it was a day when the referendum

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on our membership of the EU featured heavily in Parliament.

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At the start of the day, at Treasury Questions,

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the Chancellor announced he'd publish a document weighing up

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the costs and benefits of Britain's membership.

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It'll be put together by the Treasury and released

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sometime before the referendum,

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which is to be held at the end of June.

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The Chancellor insists it'll be a "sober" assessment.

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Both George Osborne and the Government are strongly

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campaigning for the UK to stay in.

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My responsibility as Chancellor is for jobs, livelihoods

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and living standards.

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It is clear to me that a UK exit from the EU would be a long,

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costly and messy divorce that would hurt all of those things.

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We have already seen the sterling fall and HSBC yesterday predicted

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a further 15-20% slump in the event of

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a vote to leave.

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The finance ministers and central bank governors

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of the G20 concluded at the weekend that a British exit would cause

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an economic shock, not just to the UK,

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but to Europe and the world.

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Mr Speaker, what people are asking for in this referendum campaign

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is a serious, sober and principled assessment from the Government,

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setting out the facts, and I can announce today

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that the Treasury will publish, before the 23rd of June,

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a comprehensive analysis of our membership of a reformed EU

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and the alternatives.

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It will include the long-term economic benefits and costs of

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EU membership and the risks associated with an exit.

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Mr Speaker, isn't it extraordinary that the Chancellor asked the G20

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to make that statement, and is not the case that he did

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in fact make the request to them in order that they

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could tee up this element of Project Fear?

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Chancellor...

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The idea that the US Treasury Secretary or the head

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of the IMF, or indeed the central bank governor of China,

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dances to a British tune, I'm afraid, is a bit fanciful.

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The central bank governors and the finance ministers of the G20

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are saying what, frankly, every major

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independent economic institution is saying,

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at the moment, which is that a British exit would both cause

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an immediate economic shock and have longer economic costs.

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Wouldn't there be a double whammy if Britain left the EU?

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First you've got that risk of depreciation,

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widely predicted, which leads to higher inflation and interest

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rates, but second, any notion that our exporters

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are going to benefit from a cheaper pound is more than offset

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by those additional tariff barriers that those firms

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will encounter worldwide.

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If my right honourable friend's rather apocalyptic view

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of our leaving the European Union is correct, was it not both either

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irresponsible or inaccurate of the Prime Minister to say

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he ruled nothing out, prior to the completion of the most

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unsatisfactory renegotiation?

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Well, we have secured a renegotiation which I think

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addresses the principal British concerns about our membership

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of the European Union.

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Now we can advocate membership of this reformed EU and I think

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we will be stronger, safer and better off

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in that European Union.

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Those who wish us to stay in the European Union say,

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on one hand, that we are an insignificant and too

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small an economy to stand on our own, but on the other hand,

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if we leave the European Union, it will cause an economic meltdown

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around the world.

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They both can't be true, Chancellor.

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Well, our argument is that we will be stronger,

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better off, inside a European Union.

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And that is the sort of positive choice we face as a country,

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and I don't think this is the right time.

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I mean, I, personally, don't think we should

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leave the EU, but even those who contemplate leaving the EU

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should think about this.

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With the economic situation the world faces at the moment,

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with the geopolitical situation we face in Europe,

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with Putin on our doorstep and the crisis in the Middle East,

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is this the right moment to leave?

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George Osborne.

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Well, a little later in the day, the UK's top civil servant

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defended his decision to stop ministers who back Brexit

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from receiving some official referendum-related documents.

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Sir Jeremy Heywood was appearing in front of

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the Public Administration Committee.

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He explained exactly what the rules were.

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The area where the civil service is not going to be providing advice

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to ministers in that position is very specific and set out

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in the Prime Minister's letter

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and set out in my guidance to principal secretaries.

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That is the provision of briefing material,

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speech material, because we don't think it is appropriate.

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I don't think it is appropriate either -

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it didn't happen in 1975, very much the same precedent -

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to provide material to ministers who want to argue

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against the Government's position so that they can make that case

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against the Government.

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Can you give me an example,

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a practical example, of what material may have a bearing

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on the referendum question?

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You know, pick a department at large, say...

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Well, if...

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It's not happened,

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because the guidance is very clear on the subject.

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But if a minister wanted to argue against the Government position

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commissioned a brief of the facts that would stand up

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that position or a line of argument, that would be ruled out

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by the guidance,

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because that is exactly the sort of information

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which would have a bearing on the referendum question.

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This sounds much more reasonable and I very much welcome that.

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Can I just clarify, why, in your letter, you said,

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it will not be appropriate or permissible for the civil service

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to support ministers who oppose the Government's official position

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by providing briefing speech material on this matter.

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This includes access to official departmental papers,

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excepting papers that ministers have previously seen, on issues relating

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to the referendum question,

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prior to the suspension of the collective agreement.

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What papers do you not intend them to see?

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Briefings and speech material.

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So, only briefings and speech material?

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That's the basic principle, yes.

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When you say, OK...

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In the...

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In the Q and A, they can see or commission any papers produced

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by the departments in the normal way, except those that

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have a bearing on the referendum question or are intended to be used

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in support of their position on the referendum.

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That only applies to briefings and speech material?

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That is the material we are talking about, yes.

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So, any material facts are available?

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Facts are dealt with in a different paragraph.

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I mean, this is marvellous.

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What a breath of fresh air.

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I couldn't agree more.

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This is so straightforward(!)

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We might be able to shorten this whole session.

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That would be a pleasure.

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It would.

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Will there ever be a case where the paper does relate

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to the question of the EU referendum and yet it is passed to a minister

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who is pro-leaving the EU?

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I am not really going to get into hypothetical cases here.

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The spirit of this is very clear.

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These are situations which are going to happen and people

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will have to make decisions.

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It will only go so far, that is all I can say.

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All I can say is, the spirit of this is very clear.

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There is an official Government position.

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There is official Government business and anybody

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who is supporting that official Government business will get

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the same civil service support as usual.

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In one area alone, in those cases where ministers have decided

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they want to oppose the Government's official policy,

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the civil service will not be effected to provide

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briefing material or speech material

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to support that case against the Government,

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and I think it would be quite wrong if the civil service

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was involved in that.

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It would be a very significant change in the civil service's role

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in our country, to be actively briefing ministers

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against the Government policy -

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it would be a very significant change.

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I wouldn't support it and I don't think anybody in the Cabinet

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is asking for that, to be honest.

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Sir Jeremy Heywood.

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Back in the Commons, a senior Conservative argued

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that the Foreign Office should prepare for

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a UK vote to leave the EU.

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Crispin Blunt, who chairs the Foreign Affairs Committee,

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said that so far there was little sign of contingency planning.

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If the country votes out on the 23rd of June,

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a huge effort will be needed to disentangle the United Kingdom

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from its existing commitments

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and to work on new trade arrangements,

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to name but one element of the work that will need

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to be undertaken.

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A very large part of that effort will fall on the Foreign Office.

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Yet, the committee has found little or no evidence that the British

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civil service is making any sort of contingency plan

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in the event of Brexit.

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Brexit is not a remote possibility -

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it is a very real prospect in the hands

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of the electorate and the competing campaigns.

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And so, I urge ministers and their officials to begin

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planning, not just an outline, for the consequences of a decision

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by the British people to leave the European Union.

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The debate looked at how much money was being allocated to

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the Foreign Office.

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Crispin Blunt argued it wasn't enough.

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The Office remains overstretched and underfunded for

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the tasks it faces.

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Its actual funding base is dysfunctional

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and, if it does not actually distort policy decisions,

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it certainly means that resource allocation is

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no longer allowed with actual British interests.

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We know that, since 2010, the Government has repeatedly

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cut the budget for the Foreign Commonwealth Office.

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And now we have a Foreign Office that is not only

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the smallest office of any one department but one which has already

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had its budget slashed by 16% in real terms.

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According to the report, mentioned several times

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in the debate today, by the House of Commons Foreign

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Affairs Committee, we spend less on diplomacy than Canada,

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France, the United States and even New Zealand.

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While I welcome and support the announcement

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that the FCO's budget will be protected in real terms,

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this comes after five years of cuts that have

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reduced the workforce to an all-time low and risked

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undermining its ability to have influence in the world.

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The threats to our security from Daesh cannot be effectively

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addressed by solely dropping bombs in Syria, Libya

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or, indeed, Iraq.

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The effects to our economy from events in China

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and the Eurozone cannot simply be washed away

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by the Treasury.

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We need to equip the FCO,

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not only to meet the challenges of today,

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but to be able to rise to meet the unknown challenges of tomorrow.

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The minister insisted there had been cuts under Labour,

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leading to cutting of jobs and the closure of the language

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school, and he defended the current settlement.

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We would all like to feel that the budgets available

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to us were unlimited.

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In the real world, the budgets are finite and are constrained to...

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By the Government's overall need to bring

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down the deficit and address a long history of this country

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living beyond its means,

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in terms of the public finances.

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The overall resource departmental expenditure

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limit for the FCO will rise in line with inflation.

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That is in each of the four years covered by the spending review,

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increasing our funding from ?1.1 billion in 2015-16

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to ?1.24 billion by 2019-20.

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We believe that this settlement will enable the department

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to maintain our world-class diplomatic service,

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including our network of posts around the world,

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which host not only the FCO but also 32 other

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Government departments and agencies.

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The Foreign Office Minister, David Lidlington.

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You're watching Tuesday in Parliament,

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here on BBC Parliament, with me, Alicia McCarthy.

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The Home Affairs Committee is investigating whether it's time

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to change the laws on prostitution.

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Some of the activities around prostitution are illegal,

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such as kerb-crawling or soliciting on the streets,

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but the act of exchanging money for sex is legal.

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Campaigners say the people who buy sex should be criminalised.

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MPs heard some powerful testimony from a woman who was a sex worker

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for six years.

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The rape and violence is horrendous.

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My own experience...

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You know, three rapes, one gang rape which happened inside.

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My friend did not survive.

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I can't...

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I can't fathom how any Government would sanction an industry that...

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And the only way to...

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You know, I was beaten and abused and raped by buyers.

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Removing them or making them a smaller amount,

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do you know what I mean?

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It does not make it more dangerous.

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Prostitution is one other form of violence against women

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but the problem is that our laws do not yet

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reflect that because, at present, overwhelmingly,

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the burden of criminality falls on those who sell sex and I think

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we are all agreed that that is wrong.

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Women who are exploited through prostitution should not be

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punished for that.

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Nobody selling sex should be criminalised for it.

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But what we need to do, as a society, is send a message

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to the minority of men in this country, because most

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men do not pay for sex, but we need to send a message

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to that minority that it is not an acceptable way to treat another

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person, and we know that the threat of criminal sanctions

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are a key method for discouraging paying for sex.

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But an alternative view was offered by another witness.

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Do you believe that we should change the law on prostitution?

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Do you think it is ready to be changed?

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Yes, I do believe that the law on prostitution should be changed,

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but perhaps not in the manner in which the committee

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is considering it at present.

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We, as sex workers, are seeking the right to

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work together for safety

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and, in doing so, to increase our labour rights,

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as well, as workers.

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At present, the sex industry is the only industry in the UK that

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I can think of which compels me, as a woman, to work alone,

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and leaves me wide open to attack from predators and attackers.

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I speak from 22 years of experience across a vast range of activities

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within the sex industry, from on-street selling to

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webcam work to lap-dancing to escorting.

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It is my view that when two consenting adults come together

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behind closed doors, then the state does not have any

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right or a role to intervene.

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The state should intervene when harm occurs.

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And we can debate the "harm" all day.

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I should just say, at this point, that I witnessed first-hand,

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whilst I was working on the street, the effects of further

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criminalisation in 1993, and precious police resources

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were driven away from looking after us to chasing down our

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clients, and the levels of violence against sex workers

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went through the roof.

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In Ipswich in 2006, five prostitutes were murdered by Steven Wright

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in the space of a few months.

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Leading the police investigation was

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Detective Superintendent Alan Caton.

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Now retired, he thinks buying sex should be illegal.

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We don't, in this country, send a clear single or principle

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to what our view is around prostitution.

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I formed my view after the very tragic events in 2006,

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where all of the women who were murdered and all

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of the other women who were working on the streets of Ipswich

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at the time were drug-addicted.

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When we spoke to those women, they were using drugs before

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they went out onto the streets so that they could face

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what they were doing.

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None of the women I spoke to, certainly, would have said

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that was their choice.

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They would want to get out.

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Most of the men, when we spoke to the men, why did they do it?

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It was because they could do things that they can't do at home.

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These are not disabled individuals, as the discussion went earlier,

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these were primarily married men, men with partners,

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men with children, who feel that they can go out and exploit

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women for payment.

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Alan Caton concluded that prostitution cannot be made safe.

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It was, he said, an inherently dangerous activity.

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Russia has an important role to play in maintaining a partial truce

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in Syria, the Foreign Office Minister Tobias Ellwood has

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told the Commons.

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But at the same time he and many MPs condemned Russia's military

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involvement in the country.

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Violence has reduced since the cessation of hostilities

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was implemented on the 27th February, although there have been

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reports of violations.

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The agreement excludes attacks on so-called Islamic State

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and the al-Qaeda-affiliated Nusra Front.

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The Syrian conflict is now almost in its sixth year and as a result

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of that, and the brutality and the terror of Daesh,

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over 250,000 people have lost their lives, half

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the population have been displaced and over 13 million people

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are in need of humanitarian aid.

0:17:270:17:31

Russia's military intervention last autumn has compounded

0:17:310:17:35

the violence and Russia's claims to be targeting terrorists has

0:17:350:17:40

carried out strikes on moderate opposition groups and on civilians.

0:17:400:17:44

Over 1,300 civilians have been killed and over 5,800 have been

0:17:440:17:49

injured by Russia or regime air strikes since the start

0:17:490:17:53

of Russia's campaign.

0:17:530:17:56

The cessation of hostilities is an important step towards ending

0:17:560:18:00

the terrible violence in Syria and bringing

0:18:000:18:02

a lasting political settlement.

0:18:020:18:06

The cessation came into force on the 27th of February.

0:18:060:18:10

Since then, we have seen a reduction in violence,

0:18:100:18:13

which is of course, a huge step forward.

0:18:130:18:16

But we need to see this sustained and to see a reduction in the number

0:18:160:18:20

of reported violations.

0:18:200:18:24

We have received reports of a number of violations which we have passed

0:18:240:18:28

on to the UN and ISSG co-chairs in Vienna.

0:18:280:18:33

We need swift action to reduce these violations and we look to Russia

0:18:330:18:39

in particular to use its influence with the regime to ensure

0:18:390:18:43

that the cessation endures and that there are no further violations.

0:18:430:18:49

Can the Minister address how it is even conceivable

0:18:490:18:51

that the monitoring of this agreement is being jointly conducted

0:18:510:18:54

by Russia, the same party that is responsible for the vast

0:18:540:18:57

majority of recent civilian deaths?

0:18:580:19:01

If the reports of Russian and regime violations are verified,

0:19:010:19:05

what measures will the UK pursue to force a change in

0:19:050:19:08

the calculations of both Putin and Assad?

0:19:080:19:11

The UK has a critical role, Mr Speaker, to play in giving

0:19:110:19:15

everybody confidence in the system, in particular, the violations

0:19:150:19:19

will be called out and the agreement protected.

0:19:190:19:22

Russia has absolutely no desire to bring hope or humanitarian

0:19:220:19:27

relief, I'm sure, to many areas Syria.

0:19:270:19:30

What they want is to increase fear, despair and the collapse

0:19:300:19:33

of the opposition.

0:19:330:19:42

I am sure they also hope that the peace period will bring

0:19:420:19:45

a greater influx of refugees fleeing from Syria towards the West.

0:19:450:19:47

It isn't simply just about Syria here.

0:19:470:19:49

It's about the wider strategic implications of what is happening

0:19:490:19:52

not just here, but also the role Russia is playing

0:19:520:19:56

on the international stage, not least with Ukraine and indeed

0:19:560:19:59

Crimea, and the consequences of the influx of refugees and that

0:19:590:20:04

political impact that it is having across Europe as well.

0:20:040:20:07

And we are not blind to that, whatsoever.

0:20:070:20:10

The most credible and consistently effective ground forces

0:20:100:20:13

against Daesh in both Syria and Iraq are our friends the Kurds and yet

0:20:130:20:18

again and again, our Nato ally Turkey uses any excuse,

0:20:180:20:23

including the present ceasefire, to attack them and degrade them.

0:20:230:20:29

When is Her Majesty's government going to take this issue seriously?

0:20:290:20:35

My honourable friend articulates the complexity of the challenge

0:20:350:20:38

that we face in Syria with so many moving parts and so many

0:20:380:20:41

organisations and indeed entities pursuing quite separate agendas.

0:20:410:20:47

That makes it very, very difficult indeed.

0:20:470:20:49

Asked about aid drops, he said these were not ideal.

0:20:500:20:53

Their destination could be affected by the weather and they were likely

0:20:530:20:56

to be taken away by the strongest people who found them.

0:20:560:20:59

Aid convoys, though slower, would do a better job.

0:20:590:21:03

Now, are too many claims for whiplash injuries being made

0:21:050:21:07

by people involved in minor road accidents?

0:21:070:21:11

At Lords Question Time, a Conservative peer said Britain

0:21:110:21:13

was now "the whiplash capital of the world" and accused insurance

0:21:130:21:18

companies of taking a cavalier approach to claims.

0:21:180:21:22

First, a former surgeon explained more about the nature

0:21:220:21:25

of the injury.

0:21:250:21:35

The whiplash phenomenon is thought to occur usually when a vehicle

0:21:350:21:38

is struck heavily from behind with the

0:21:380:21:40

result that the passenger or the driver in the vehicle

0:21:400:21:42

that is hit has a sharp flexion of the neck

0:21:420:21:44

followed by a sharp hyperextension.

0:21:440:21:46

Now, if it happens that the individual in question has

0:21:460:21:48

already got disc degeneration in the neck,

0:21:480:21:50

there is no doubt at all that this may on occasions result in actual

0:21:500:21:55

damage to the spinal cord with significant physical results.

0:21:550:22:00

The noble Lord, with his experience as a neurologist, of course

0:22:000:22:02

highlights the complicated nature of this injury

0:22:020:22:06

and the fact that the injury is not detectable usually on scans.

0:22:060:22:10

He also makes the point about pre-existing degenerative

0:22:100:22:12

injury, which can exist.

0:22:120:22:15

When he next meets the industry, ask them to explain

0:22:150:22:18

cases such as that of Mr John Elven of Watford.

0:22:180:22:21

He was involved in a negligible traffic incident where

0:22:210:22:25

there was no apparent damage to either vehicle.

0:22:250:22:29

And at the first opportunity, he notified his insurers,

0:22:290:22:31

Esure, that he was subject to what he believed was going to be

0:22:310:22:36

a false whiplash and damage claim.

0:22:360:22:40

Despite a series of requests,

0:22:400:22:42

Esure have given no indication that they

0:22:420:22:44

have investigated this case in any way.

0:22:440:22:47

Is this not an example of the reason that the industry is known in this

0:22:470:22:51

country as the whiplash capital of the world and it's the consumer

0:22:510:22:55

that ultimately pays for this cavalier attitude?

0:22:550:23:00

Hear, hear.

0:23:000:23:02

My noble friend is quite right to draw the House's attention

0:23:020:23:04

to this very major problem with the significant increase

0:23:040:23:07

in the number of claims and our large number of claims

0:23:070:23:11

in comparison with other European countries.

0:23:110:23:13

Anyone who is notified of what sounds suspiciously

0:23:130:23:16

like a fraud should not do anything to encourage it.

0:23:160:23:20

If individuals are invited to take part in such an endeavour,

0:23:200:23:25

they are potentially committing a criminal offence.

0:23:250:23:29

Will my noble friend the Minister

0:23:290:23:30

accept, and I'm declaring my interest as set out in the register,

0:23:300:23:35

that there is serious concern not only in this House,

0:23:350:23:39

but also in the insurance industry, at the way

0:23:390:23:42

in which we have allowed to happen a situation

0:23:420:23:45

where 80%, 80% of all personal injury claims are said to be

0:23:450:23:50

whiplash claims.

0:23:500:23:53

And will he find some way of stopping these cold callers?

0:23:530:23:58

One of my colleagues as had a cold call from a claims management

0:23:580:24:02

company calling itself the Department of Compensation!

0:24:020:24:07

LAUGHTER.

0:24:070:24:12

Individuals can have a telephone preference service installed

0:24:120:24:14

on their telephones and we are also exploring the possibility of

0:24:140:24:16

call-blocking devices for vulnerable consumers.

0:24:160:24:19

When somebody rings you, as they ring me from time to time,

0:24:190:24:22

inviting me to take part in a fraud, I endeavour to extract details

0:24:220:24:27

from them without revealing the particular position I hold.

0:24:270:24:32

Unfortunately, my voice appears to cause them only to put

0:24:320:24:36

down the phone.

0:24:360:24:41

A Liberal Democrat is calling for the Welsh Assembly

0:24:410:24:43

to have the power to set bank holidays in Wales.

0:24:430:24:46

It's not the first time the case has been made to devolve the power

0:24:460:24:49

to Cardiff Bay.

0:24:490:24:50

Mark Williams argued it was time for Wales to have a power that

0:24:500:24:53

Scotland already has.

0:24:530:24:55

He set out the case on the feast day of Wales' national saint.

0:24:550:24:58

It was in the village of Llanddewi Brefi in 550 AD,

0:24:580:25:03

at a raucous meeting of the Synod of the Welsh Church,

0:25:030:25:06

that David, finding it difficult to make himself heard,

0:25:060:25:09

placed a cloth on the ground and earth rose to form a mound

0:25:090:25:13

on which he could stand and preach.

0:25:130:25:17

So, this St David's miracle did put the village of Llanddewi Brefi

0:25:170:25:21

on the map long before the contemporary Daffyd

0:25:210:25:25

of Little Britain fame.

0:25:250:25:27

It should therefore be of no surprise that the calls

0:25:270:25:31

for the possibility of St David's Day becoming a bank holiday

0:25:310:25:33

in Wales are particularly strong in my constituency.

0:25:330:25:36

Mr Williams won the right to take his bill forward

0:25:360:25:39

but without government support, it won't become law.

0:25:390:25:42

And that's it for now, but do join me at the same time

0:25:430:25:46

tomorrow for another round-up of the day at Westminster,

0:25:460:25:48

including the highlights of Prime Minister's Questions.

0:25:480:25:51

But until then, goodbye.

0:25:510:25:55

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