11/10/2016 Tuesday in Parliament


11/10/2016

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Hello there and welcome to Tuesday In Parliament.

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Coming up: MPs condemn Russha's role in the conflict in Syria,

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Is it time to stop civil servants moving to well-paid jobs

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And there's a call for a change in the law to help

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If a convicted killer refusds to give information to reve`l

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the location of the victim's body, they should not be considerdd

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But first, the Foreign Secrdtary, Boris Johnson, says the UK hs taking

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the lead in highlighting what is happening in Syria.

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In his first Commons appearance in the job,

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he said that "all available evidence" pointed to Russian

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involvement in an air strikd on an aid convoy last month.

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Russia, a key ally of President al-Assad, has rejected

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the accusation, and said a TS drone was flying overhead

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Boris Johnson had come to the Commons to respond

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to an emergency debate calldd by the Conservative former

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International Development Sdcretary, Andrew Mitchell, who launchdd

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a strong condemnation of Russia's actions.

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Behaving like a rogue eleph`nt, shredding international hum`nitarian

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law, abusing its veto powers on the UN Security Council,

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and using the veto to protect itself from its own war crimes.

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Last week, Mr Speaker, the M10 hospital underground

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was attacked by bunker bombs to break through,

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bunker-busting bombs, to break through the roof of it

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and indeed cluster bombs ailed specifically at harming and injuring

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The location of that hospit`l was known to every combatant.

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There is no doubt, Mr Speakdr, that attacking that hospital

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I thank my right honourable friend for giving way, and he does make

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When it comes to Russia, we are not living in some khnd

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On the one hand, we see the Russians dropping bunker bombs on hospitals,

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but on the other hand, we are allowing them to comd

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and trade in our country as though nothing is going on.

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Does this not need a general review of our

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What the Russians are doing, Mr Speaker, to the United N`tions

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is precisely what Italy and Germany did to the League of Nations

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in the 1930s, and they are doing to Aleppo precisely what thd Nazis

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did to Guernica in the Spanish Civil War.

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In the 1930s, there was a united condemnation of what the Nazis

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and their airforce were doing in Spain,

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Isn't it time we had a unitdd, unambiguous, explicit,

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direct condemnation of what Putin is doing in support of Assad

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Not just from the Government but from the opposition

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The honourable gentleman has an extremely good point.

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What is needed, Mr Speaker, is a concerted effort

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by the international communhty, united, to make Russia feel

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the cost of their support and participation in the barbaric

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The Shadow Foreign Secretarx said the effort to hold

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Russian forces to account, and the anger people felt,

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must not prevent the UK frol working with the Russian goverment

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Now, that means securing and maintaining a ceasefire,

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isolating the jihadi extremists, opening safe...

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Absolutely, there is not a ceasefire now, and that's what I'm moving

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on to, because of course thdre is no ceasefire at the moment,

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And in the end we all know that we can only move forward by way

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of negotiations, and no negotiations will happen

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I thank the honourable lady for giving way.

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Can she present us with the evidence that she clearly has

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that it is realistic to belheve that the Russians will

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seriously engage in further ceasefire negotiations?

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And do you think for a minute they will stop bombing Aleppo

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If the peace that we want is not achievable, would she support

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the application of military force, if it were needed?

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I believe in using military force where military force

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can be effective, and where we can achieve the ends

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that we have identified we know what it is that we wish to `chieve.

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Personally, I believe that in a multilayered,

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multifaceted Civil War such as Syria, the last thing we need

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Mr Speaker, the suffering of Aleppo has gone on too long.

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Every day it continues, we must redouble our efforts to end

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it, and we suggest a four-point plan for the Government.

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We suggest that we begin with more statesmanship and less brinkmanship.

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Secondly, we must adopt the UN plan to escort the jihadis from @leppo.

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Thirdly, the Kerry and Lavrov plan needs to be revived and we lust work

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And fourthly, we must de-escalate overseas military involvement

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in the conflict from all 14 other nations involved,

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Peace in Syria seems as far away as it has ever been

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Russia and the United States have completely different

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aims for the region, particularly over the role

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or otherwise that President Assad has to play in the country's future.

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And there is a concerning rhsk that the situation becomes ` proxy

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for broader tensions between the two countries, and indeed furthdr

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backsliding in international relations more generally.

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And that is why the right honourable member for Sutton Coldfield is right

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to question what impact this stalemate has for the role

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It has never been more necessary for the United Nations

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to play a role, and yet, in this area at least,

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it seems the impasse has never been more difficult to breach.

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It is the UK, week after wedk, that is taking the lead

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to go with our allies in America and in France,

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all the like-minded nations, in highlighting what is happening

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in Syria to a world where, I am afraid, the wells of ottrage

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I would certainly like to sde demonstrations outside

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Where is the Stop The War Coalition at the moment?

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And I believe that it's up to us in the Government to show a lead.

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If President Putin's strategy is to restore the greatness

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and the glory of Russia, then I believe he risks

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seeing his ambition turned to ashes in the face

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of international contempt for what is happening in Syria.

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We must continue to have the "closest possible econolic

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relationship" with the countries of Europe - that was the plda

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of George Osborne, whose six-year stint as Chancellor came

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to an abrupt end this summer when the country

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Mr Osborne, a leading figure in the Remain camp

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in the Referendum battle, was answering questions

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about the industrial strategies of successive UK Governments.

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Appearing with him at the Btsiness and Skills Committee were two other

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ex-ministers with plenty of opinions on how much governments shotld get

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involved in the running of the nation's industries.

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Whether we like it or not, one of the most important contextual

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factors for our industrial strategy is going to be the shape

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of future arrangements with the European Union.

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There is a lot of talk about the single market.

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What do we need in the European Union?

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What do we need for our industrial success,

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What do we need in terms of future arrangements with the singld market?

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I agree with what my successor said at the Conservative Conference,

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You know, he said the country did not vote to make itself poorer.

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That was not the intention of the majority who voted to leave

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the EU, and so, you know, we want to make sure

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that we continue to have thd closest possible relationship with the place

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That should not be to the exclusion of closer economic ties

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You know, I did not think that was inconsistent

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with being a member of the DU, but now we are leaving the DU,

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we should certainly pursue those avenues.

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We want to do more trade with Australia, to take an dxample,

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but that should not be at the cost of less trade with Germany.

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You know, we want to be doing more trade with Germany and more

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and in these discussions ovdr the next couple of years, you know,

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we need to try and find arr`ngements that enable us to do both.

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We have three ministers now in charge - a brilliant set

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of appointments in my view, because they can come up

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with the answers which have escaped me.

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But the ability to trade sedms to be an important part of our future

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And it seems to me such a rhdiculous statement,

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And if there are all of these markets which have escaped

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the attention of British exporters, it will be marvellous to have

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it pointed out to them by the new minister responshble

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Then a look at industrial strategies in general.

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Britain has been very, very bad at innovation

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and support for innovation, and that is the kind of thing which,

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through an industrial stratdgy, governments can do.

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I think it is much easier to point out the problem than for Government

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And then, I think in June of this year, you said, the coalition's

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industrial strategy is workhng well, but has been allowed to dec`y.

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Government is short-term - you know, maximum five years.

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But, you know, that is bettdr than the 24-hour news cycle,

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and it is better than just responding to events.

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We, you know, we had a bad system, and we were trying to make ht

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Oil and gas companies used to come and see me

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because I was their so-calldd relationship manager in Govdrnment,

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and they would ask me how the Government can help thel

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in their affairs in the Middle East and wherever, and I would s`y

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to them, there are these pl`tforms out in the North Sea,

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none of which seem to be made in Harland and Wolff,

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And one answer, which was very revealing -

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So I encouraged the process by which,

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through our industrial strategy through our energy groups,

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we did think about how to gdt better British procurement.

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There are always going to be inherent tensions.

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You know, when you are trying to buy military equipment,

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are you trying to give your soldiers and sailors and aircrew the very

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best equipment you can buy `nywhere in the world, or are you trxing

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to support a particular factory in a particular part

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And, you know, you have to balance the both.

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The former Chancellor, George Osborne.

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Now, Labour is accusing the Government of planning to send

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home overseas doctors as part of plans to make the NHS

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"self-sufficient" in doctors over the next decade.

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At the Conservative Party conference last week,

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Jeremy Hunt announced plans to train up to 1,500 more doctors a xear

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in England, in the hope it would no longer have to relx

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At Health Questions, the Shadow Health Secretary

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Jon Ashworth told the Commons that he feared it could lead

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to "ambulances being plastered with 'go home' slogans".

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The minister says there was no rhetoric

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Can he explain to the House what the Prime Minister

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meant when she said, quote, there will be staff

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here from overseas in that hnterim period until the further nulber

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of British doctors are able to be trained and come on board in terms

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of being able to work in our hospitals.

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Ambulances plastered with "go home" slogans?

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This is exactly the kind of ill-judged remark which H am

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surprised that the honourable gentleman, in his first

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but I very much hope he will use more measured language,

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rather than spreading this kind of inappropriate rumour.

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The interim period referred to was the period during whhch the

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We won't get new doctors coling under this increased

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allocation until 2023, and during that time, clearly,

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we will need to use all measures to ensure that we fill the spaces

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that I acknowledge we have over several of our hospitals.

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We have seen 8,000 fewer nurses trained,

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student nurse bursaries set to be cut, a reliance on agency staff

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and now, after six years, they are talking about self-sufficiency.

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So, can they tell us, post-Brexit, given that there were concerns

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that these plans did not go far enough, can he tell us what steps

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he will be taking to ensure that no staff from the EU

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And will the NHS, post-Brexht, still be able to recruit

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Health ministers have been very clear to reassure all those 53, 00

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EU citizens who are working within our NHS that their

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Regarding the position on clinicians, and I remind

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the honourable gentleman th`t although we have some vacancy rates

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which are acknowledged, we now have 7,800 more constltants

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employed in the NHS than there were in May 2010.

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We have 8,500 more doctors than in May 2010,

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and over 10,500 more nurses working on our wards.

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I welcome the 25% expansion in medical student places,

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but reject tying this to the elimination of 25%

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of overseas doctors who currently work in our NHS.

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The Secretary of State must know that with 10% of posts unfilled

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and ever-rising patient dem`nd, we will always need international

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Does he not recognise that he is creating unrealistic

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expectations and conflict whth this British-only medical servicd idea?

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The announcement last week was about adding more doctors to be trained to

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our UK based. We are not ch`nging any of the present arrangemdnts

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regarding international students being trained here or doctors and

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nurses working here. Does mx right honourable friend agreed with me

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that the government has a moral obligation to end the raid on poorer

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countries for their doctors and nurses? He is absolutely right to

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say that. I find it extraordinary that the party opposite says that

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our plan to train more doctors was nonsense. We currently have 800

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doctors in the NHS from Sri Lankan, 600 from Nigeria, 400 from Sudan,

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they are doing a brilliant job and I want them to continue but wd have to

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ask ourselves whether it is ethical for us to continue to recruht

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doctors from much poorer cotntries that really need their skills?

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You're watching Tuesday In Parliament,

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Ian Hislop and Richard Brooks from the satirical magazine,

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Private Eye, have been urging MPs to shut the so-called

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revolving door between the civil service and private firms.

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Private Eye has been investhgating how some civil servants go on

:16:28.:16:30.

to well-paid jobs in the sector they had dealings with

:16:31.:16:33.

Early in the proceedings, the committee chairman asked

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the journalists to go easy on criticising individuals.

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Can I make a general request that we are circumspect about making

:16:45.:16:51.

implications about individu`ls? You up protected by Parliamentary

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privilege. And you are addrdssing two people from Private eye.

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Attacking individuals is sort of what we do. I appreciate th`t. We've

:17:00.:17:05.

had the professors in. Now xou have us. Having you in here is lhke

:17:06.:17:11.

having a wayward dog off thd lead. That's flattering. Given th`t people

:17:12.:17:16.

are not going to have the opportunity to respond in epual

:17:17.:17:17.

measure. The journalists complained

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that Advisory Committee on Business Appointments had not

:17:20.:17:21.

rejected any requests from public Out of 700 possibles, they've turned

:17:22.:17:35.

no one down. So no job which anyone has taken, no minister, no civil

:17:36.:17:38.

servant is in anyway a conflict of interest or unsuitable. Just none.

:17:39.:17:43.

So the system is obviously working absolutely brilliantly. How

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effective do you think it is in policing the boundary betwedn public

:17:56.:17:58.

and private sector? I don't think it's effective at all. It's an

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advisory body. It requires people to disclose information about

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themselves which they often don t do. And it has no sanctions. I can't

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see that it works. Could it not be that those things which wouldn't get

:18:17.:18:21.

through decide on balance they might do better not to ask. No, bdcause

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we've seen some of the things that did get through and they ard

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shocking. Pages and pages of them. Defence industry outsourcing,

:18:35.:18:38.

banking. It's pretty disgraceful. I don't think there are many landarins

:18:39.:18:44.

sitting there saying I won't take that job because of what might be

:18:45.:18:47.

said to me. That's simply not happening. It's now routine. The

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question was, how is it cophng with the boundary. It's not. It's melting

:18:54.:18:59.

away any boundaries that exhsted. We now have this stage where the

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revolving door is now so accepted that there is no real distinction.

:19:07.:19:12.

You have very senior people responsible for very import`nt areas

:19:13.:19:15.

of public policy, who just see their public role as one part of `

:19:16.:19:18.

portfolio career. There was high praise, indedd,

:19:19.:19:20.

from a Labour committee member. In balance to the chairman's lesson,

:19:21.:19:30.

which is welcome, I have bedn a beneficiary of privatised shnce

:19:31.:19:35.

almost your first edition and you've provided a unique source of

:19:36.:19:40.

information over those years. I believe that in this instance and in

:19:41.:19:46.

many others you are doing a job that politicians have failed to do. The

:19:47.:19:53.

politicians of all covers, dither item of cowardice or self-interest.

:19:54.:19:56.

It's a very nice tribute. I would say that my colleague, Rich`rd,

:19:57.:20:00.

should take most of the record for that. He's a classic exampld of

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someone who was a fairly senior civil servant. We decided r`ther

:20:05.:20:07.

than go for a leading accountant or missile company, he would look work

:20:08.:20:10.

for prime time, which is a terrible career choice. And it shows that

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it's possible. It's possibld not take the none money.

:20:20.:20:21.

Ian Hislop, the editor of Private Eye.

:20:22.:20:22.

A Labour MP is calling for ` change in the law so that killers

:20:23.:20:26.

are denied parole if they rdfuse to reveal the location

:20:27.:20:28.

of their victims' bodies Conor Mcginn wants to bring

:20:29.:20:30.

in what's become known as Helen's Law.

:20:31.:20:32.

It's named after Helen McCotrt, who was abducted and killed

:20:33.:20:35.

Simms was convicted by overwhelming DNA evidence, but never admhtted

:20:36.:20:42.

what he did or disclosed the whereabouts of the

:20:43.:20:47.

The victim's mother, Marie LcCourt, has since campaigned

:20:48.:20:52.

for a change in parole terms, as Conor McGinn explained.

:20:53.:21:02.

As Marie has so eloquently `nd repeatedly said, this campahgn is

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not just about them but injtring others who find themselves hn such

:21:09.:21:12.

horrific circumstances do not have this added pain visited upon them.

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Just yesterday, the Home Office revealed to me that there h`d been

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30 murders when nobody had been recovered in England and Wales since

:21:22.:21:26.

2007 alone. But as it currently stands, the English legal sxstem

:21:27.:21:30.

does not require a convicted murderer at the end of their tariff,

:21:31.:21:37.

to reveal the location of a victims remains before being releasdd. Marie

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believes that his parole is granted to Helen's killer, who hopes of

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finding her daughter will ndver be realised.

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Conor McGinn explained the changes he wanted to sed.

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In essence, the proposals are simple. If a convicted killdr

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refuses to give information, they should not be considered elhgible

:21:56.:21:59.

for parole and they should stay in prison. Effectively, it would mean a

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life tariff for murderers who refuse to disclose the location of their

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victims and enable their relains to be recovered the families a chance

:22:09.:22:09.

to pay their last respects. Mr McGinn won the right

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to take his bill forward, but it will only become law if it

:22:12.:22:14.

gets Government backing. A minister has hinted

:22:15.:22:16.

that the long-awaited decishon on expanding airport capacity

:22:17.:22:18.

in the south east of England After years of deliberations

:22:19.:22:21.

and delays, it's thought we'll know in the next few weeks

:22:22.:22:27.

whether the Government favotrs a third runway at Heathrow

:22:28.:22:29.

or a second at Gatwick. At question time in the Lords,

:22:30.:22:34.

peers were clearly hoping to be put The government is committed to

:22:35.:22:48.

delivering the infrastructure prospects -- projects the country

:22:49.:22:54.

needs. Including delivering runway capacity on the timetable sdt out by

:22:55.:23:00.

the airports commission. It is vitally important we get thd

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decision right. The governmdnt commissioned extra work, looking at

:23:04.:23:09.

the three options short listed by the commission. Ministers are

:23:10.:23:12.

carefully considering all evidence and will be in a position to

:23:13.:23:19.

announce a preferred scheme shortly. It sounds as if we are getthng

:23:20.:23:23.

closer. Wouldn't it be wonddrful if this was the last time that I asked

:23:24.:23:32.

the same question? About thd third runway at Heathrow. Wouldn't it be

:23:33.:23:40.

more wonderful, and the last time I got the same answer. I agred with

:23:41.:23:45.

the sentiments my noble fridnd expresses. Last time, he sahd that

:23:46.:23:54.

shortly would be soon. Is it any sooner? Well, I suspected this

:23:55.:24:00.

question may come up and I've been thumbing through my thesaurts which

:24:01.:24:05.

is quite well read. All I c`n say is, perhaps shortly will also mean

:24:06.:24:09.

imminently. What is the current status of the Conservative Party

:24:10.:24:15.

pledge of 2009, no ifs, no buts no third runway at Heathrow? H`s the

:24:16.:24:20.

noble Lord is aware, the prdvious primer Mr made that statement when

:24:21.:24:24.

he was looking at a very different proposition. Since then, thd

:24:25.:24:31.

commission has reported back. It has presented three viable options and

:24:32.:24:33.

as I've said already, the government will be looking to make a c`ll on

:24:34.:24:39.

Southeast capacity shortly. With the noble Lord confirm that in laking

:24:40.:24:43.

this decision the government will consider the possibility of one of

:24:44.:24:47.

the two Heathrow options and Gatwick? We probably need both of

:24:48.:24:55.

them. In reality, if one of the Heathrow options is chosen, the

:24:56.:24:58.

legal objections might drag it on. At least we can drag -- get on with

:24:59.:25:04.

one airport in the meantime. Can you confirm rumours that the current

:25:05.:25:07.

Foreign Secretary is going to go back on his promise to lie hn front

:25:08.:25:12.

of the bulldozers if Peter hs chosen? My right honourable friend

:25:13.:25:18.

the Foreign Secretary has a very important job at a Foreign Secretary

:25:19.:25:22.

and he's doing a sterling job in that respect. As far as the issue

:25:23.:25:30.

about expansion is concerned, the commission reported back on the need

:25:31.:25:35.

to increase capacity by 2030 with the addition of one runway hn the

:25:36.:25:38.

south-east and that is wherd the government's decision is focused.

:25:39.:25:41.

Time for me to fly off now, but do join me again tomorrow,

:25:42.:25:44.

when, among other things, we'll have the highlights

:25:45.:25:47.

But for now, from me, Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.

:25:48.:25:49.

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