22/11/2016 Tuesday in Parliament


22/11/2016

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Hello and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament.

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On this programme: What's the future looking like for US-UK relations?

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Boris Johnson comes in for some mockery over his new policy

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The Foreign Secretary, in the space on the last few weeks, has gone from

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not going to New York in case he is mistaken for Mr Trump to saying his

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key opportunity for the Western world.

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Not a bit of it, says a former

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I think this is a terrific opportunity for the civil service,

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and I haven't often, since I retired, wanted to be back in the

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civil service, but I do now. And MPs return to the debate over

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selection in education. We take the children at quite a

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young age that we think are going to be the most talented musicians and

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we give them a lead special training so that they can play to the highest

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standards in the world. But first, a fortnight is a long

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time in international politics. It's only two weeks since the voters

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of the United States Donald Trump's victory has prompted

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a huge volume of comment As he's slowly assembled his

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new team, the speculation has been intense over what his presidency

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means for America's relations with the rest of the world,

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not least with the United Kingdom. Donald Trump tweeted that

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Ukip's Nigel Farage would be an ideal choice to be Britain's next

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ambassador to the US, a comment that made for some

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interesting exchanges at Foreign Office questions,

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starting with a former Conservative Minister well known

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for his support for the unsuccessful Although there is no vacancy,

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would the Foreign Secretary think this is extremely generous

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of Donald Trump, to suggest who should be our ambassador

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in the United States, and in that measure of fraternity,

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might he suggest that the best person to fill the vacancy

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for the ambassador to the United Kingdom next year

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would be Hillary Rodham Clinton? Though I suspect the last thing

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she'd want to do is be associated I think the Right Honourable

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Gentleman might want to be Well, all right, Mr Speaker,

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you anticipate what Because, of course,

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my Right Honourable Friend would be On the other hand,

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as the House knows full well, we have a first-rate ambassador

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in Washington, doing a very good job of relating both

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with the present administration and the administration to be,

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and there is no Diplomats require diplomacy,

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and would my Right Honourable Friend agree with me that there should be

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no place for anyone who expresses inflammatory and what sometimes

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could be considered to be bordering on racist views in representing

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this country in discussions I am grateful to my Honourable

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Friend, and I think he catches the mood of the house,

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Mr Speaker, and I think we have We have an excellent ambassador

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in Washington doing a first-rate I think we are all relieved

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that the Foreign Secretary has In this post-truth world,

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we might have assumed that he might have been sympathetic,

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given they had campaigned together But can the Foreign Secretary

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perhaps outlined to the house his But can the Foreign Secretary

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perhaps outline to the house his thinking in terms of what he is

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going to say when he visits the United States of America

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about our future relations, given that we have always been

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the conduit between Europe I think my Honourable Friend asks

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a thoughtful and a very important question, because it is vital

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that we get our message over about, as I have said to the member

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opposite, the vital importance of Nato, of free trade

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and free enterprise, and of the sticking up

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for the values that I believe unite our two countries,

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and that is the message that I know that the Prime Minister will be

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getting across when she goes there, and certainly, it is the message

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that we will be delivering at all levels from

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the UK Government. Mr Speaker, as we meet today

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on the 53rd anniversary of John F Kennedy's death,

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we have this prospect of a very different president about to enter

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the White House in just Nevertheless, the Secretary

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of State said last week, and he has said again today,

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that this new president is, I quote, "a liberal guy

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with whom he shares many values". We have, he tells us,

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and I quote again, "every reason "to be positive

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about a Trump presidency". So can the Secretary of State tell

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us what reasons there are to be positive on the attitude

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of the new president to the issue I think it is vital

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that we are as positive as we can possibly be

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about the new administration-elect, and as I have said before

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to the house, I believe that the US I believe that the UK-US

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relationship is of vital importance. I think that President-elect Trump

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is a deal-maker, and when it comes to climate change, when it

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comes to climate change, this is something that the UK has

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led on globally. We have had outstanding success,

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and yes, I am very open with the House, it is something,

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it is a message we will be taking to the administration to be,

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that we believe it to be important, we believe it to be in the interests

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of the United States, Mr Speaker, the reality

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is that we have a new president who says that climate change

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is a hoax invented by the Chinese, who has repeatedly promised

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to scrap the Paris treaty, a president whose top adviser

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on the environment cause global a president whose top adviser

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on the environment calls global warming "nothing to worry about",

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and there is no doubt that this is a hugely dangerous development

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for the future of our planet, so let me ask the

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Secretary of State. When the Prime Minister goes to see

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the new president in January, will she have the moral backbone

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to tell him that he is wrong on climate change, and that he must

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not scrap the Paris treaty, and will she lead the world

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in condemning him if he does? I really must say to the right

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on the lady that I believe I really must say to the Right

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Honourable Lady that I believe she is being premature

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in her hostile judgments of the administration-elect,

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and any such premature verdict, I believe, could be damaging

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to the interests of this country. The Foreign Secretary,

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in the space of the last few weeks, has gone from not going to New York

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in case he is mistaken for Mr Trump, to saying

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he is the opportunity for the Western world,

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which is a political pirouette Can the Foreign Secretary

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realise what we're dealing with in the new President

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of the United States, and wouldn't this country's policy

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be helped by coherence, consistency, and a bit

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of common sense? I think that what the world needs

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now is the UK to build on its relations with the United States,

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which I think most people in this house would axe at our fundamental

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importance for our security, house would accept

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are of fundamental and that I have said very candidly

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to honourable members, those are the three essential points

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that I will be making to our friends, the vital importance

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of the transatlantic alliance and of Nato, the importance of free

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trade and free enterprise, and of jointly promulgating

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the values that unite our two countries.

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That is the message. A former head of the civil service,

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Lord Kerslake, has warned that there aren't enough civil

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servants to cope with the demands of His remarks follow a leaked memo

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last week from the consultants Deloitte, which said the civil

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service would have to recruit an extra 30,000 personnel

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to deliver Brexit. The Prime Minister's official

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spokesman said the consultant who wrote the memo had not been

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working for the government. Another former senior civil servant

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was enthused by the whole thing. How much do you think

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the government is making an increasingly impossible ask,

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particularly of departments in the present climate,

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with reducing the civil service, but overlaying more and more

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tasks, and now Brexit? Well, I think you have raised

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the big issue here, really, and I think within my personal view,

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there is a genuine issue about capacity to manage both

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the demands of Brexit, which is huge, complex and with big

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stakes, and at the same time, taking forward a set of other policy

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initiatives that government I think it is not possible to do

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that when the civil service is at its lowest number

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since the Second World War Another former civil servant wasn't

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used by the whole thing. -- was infused.

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and facing the civil service is definitely huge.

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We shall have to run domestically, policies that have been

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If we leave the customs union, we will need an awful lot more

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However, I don't think that should stop making the efficiencies

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in other areas which the government has set out to make.

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I think there probably will be a net increase in the size of the civil

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service as a result of this, and the government ought

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first of all to look to redeploying people.

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But they shouldn't stop trying to make efficiencies

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which are possible. I entirely agree.

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Go back to the remarks that the civil service helped win

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And of course, that is very reassuring.

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But there is something about the civil service in

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peacetime that lacks the same pace and urgency that the civil service

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How should ministers inculcate that sense of pace and urgency?

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I think this is a terrific opportunity for the civil service,

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and I haven't often, since I retired, wanted to be back

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in the civil service, but I do now, because I think

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that this is a very exciting time, and I think there's an opportunity

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to rise to it, and I am confident that, on past form,

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The civil service was in excess of a million in 1944.

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So we've seen a drastic change in size and composition.

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The second point I'd make is that of course the civil service

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carry on seeking to be more efficient, but what we've really got

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to resist is letting good people go and then finding we recruit them

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Meanwhile, the Lords has held a general debate on different

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The Prime Minister has maintained Britain will get the best exit deal

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so long as the Government doesn't provide a running commentary

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But some of her opponents say the policy is too secretive.

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A Conservative peer said keeping all your cards close to your chest

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But it's not always wise to clutch all your cards

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Occasionally, you need to play one to draw other cards out.

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And the whole process of negotiation, in my view,

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is one of creating a favourable atmosphere by gradually

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exposing your hand, and if, in doing that, you have the express

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endorsement of a sovereign Parliament at your back,

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you'll be much stronger in your negotiating position.

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I do not believe that, given the magnitude of the matters

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which are to be decided in this Brexit issue, that it could be right

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that Parliament has no involvement until the end of the negotiating

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process or that its role should be reduced to merely debating

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the situation and asking questions in a vacuum.

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And I do think the government should come clean before

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I think the government should be telling the country

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what the choices are - what are the upsides and downsides

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Lord Inglewood said that Brexit will be a long-drawn-out process.

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It's going to take, My Lords, 2-10 years!

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The elements of this are not as simple as exiting

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What about the treaties, whether it's staying in the single

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market or in the customs union, doing trade deals?

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Now, when Britain goes, the pressure will move to Berlin.

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Berlin will no longer be able to stand in the centre.

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It will have to take a much stronger role and a role which -

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let me tell you know, having recently been there -

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is not one that they are looking forward to taking.

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We can take a strong role and the worst they'll say,

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"Oh, the Brits throwing their weight around."

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Unlike us, if Germany tries to take a strong role,

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it brings out all the animus of years ago.

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And that's why the Germans do not like it and that's why the Germans

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are very unhappy at us leaving, because we have been the sensible

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people who have helped to deliver a European Union that works.

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Why is it that the government have been so desperately anxious to cut

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Parliament out of the loop over Article 50?

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Nobody has given an explanation of that, the public is entitled

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to know, and the proceeding is quite extraordinary.

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I hope we won't be told that it's in order to save time,

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because it really would be the most terrible insult to Parliament

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to be told that to consult Parliament is a waste of time.

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And, anyway, it would be an untrue explanation, because the government

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now, by appealing the decision of the High Court, have lost more

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time, perhaps six or seven week at least, precisely in order

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to be able to prevent Parliament from getting in on the action.

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You're watching our round up of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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A plea for better financial help for people who donate organs.

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A strong defence of selection in education has been mounted

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in the Commons by a former Cabinet Minister.

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In the latest debate on social mobility, John Redwood told

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the House it was perfectly normal for talented musicians

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or footballers to be selected, so why couldn't the principle be

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If a young person from a poor background becomes a top footballer,

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that is a transformational event in their lives

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And why do they not understand that exactly the same arguments apply

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We take the children at quite a young age that we think

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are going to be the most talented musicians and we give them elite

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special training, so that they can play to the highest

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standards in the world. I'll give way.

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Thank you for giving way, I am glad he mentioned football,

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because, actually, 13% of our national football team

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went to private schools, which is double the number

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of people who go to private schools nationally.

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Does he think that might account for the performance

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If we're missing out on the talent that exists

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And would he recognise that that is precisely the problem

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We're missing out on talent as a result of too narrow a focus.

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I don't think we're going to get a better team by training them less,

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and no longer giving them any kind of elite education.

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I really think they're being obtuse on the benches opposite.

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By the time they would take the 11-plus, children

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from the most disadvantaged backgrounds are already,

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The evidence shows that investment in early years is the best way

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to close the attainment gap between the most disadvantaged

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Does the Honourable Lady agree with David Cameron, who said,

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"There's a kind of hopelessness about the demand to bring back

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grammars, an assumption that this country will only ever be able

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to offer decent education to a select few"?

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I thank the Honourable Member for her contribution,

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and I find myself agreeing with the former Prime Minister,

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who was elected to make those contributions within this debate.

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That was the platform and the manifesto that

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the Conservative Government stood on, that they're

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I was setting out why this Government believes that driving

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But I also wanted to set out that, in reality, as challenging

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as it is for our country, no country in the world has

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managed to crack the issue of social mobility yet.

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That is because it's highly complex, many factors feed into it

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and because improving social mobility is, as the Social

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Mobility Commission says, a long-term issue which needs

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a long-term approach, and not to be simply treated

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like a political football for short-term political gain.

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If we are serious, and if the government

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is serious in believing, that more selective schools raises

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standards across the board, then they would have proposed only

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introducing those schools in pilot areas and those areas

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But the Green Paper talks about local demand being a driver

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and my question to the ministers is what if those areas most in need

:18:52.:18:54.

of standards being raised opt out of having new schools?

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The real problem with selective education is not that you end up

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with good schools and poorer schools, it's not that one

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set of teachers works harder than another.

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It's that whole swathes of our young people will be labelled -

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wrongly, of course - as having failed.

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And with that, social mobility falls.

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Let's open up opportunities to people, regardless

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of their ability to pay, and that's exactly what we do

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in those areas that offer selection in the state sector.

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But Trafford is outstanding, Mr Speaker, not just because

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It's also the outstanding quality of the high schools.

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And this persistent myth from the 1950s and '60s that,

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if you have grammar schools, you have sink schools is an utter

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In selective areas, and the concern is that nonselective schools do

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worse, because the selective schools have in some sense

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And there is not clear evidence for that.

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There are reports on both sides, giving both points of view.

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The Sutton Trust, in 2008, found no such effect.

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I could take members of this House to the grammar schools in Sutton,

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next to my constituency, and I will show you classes

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of young Tamil kids, first and second generation,

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on free school meals, there because their parents

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understand the importance of education and they live

:20:24.:20:27.

the immigrant's dreams, which many members in this House

:20:28.:20:30.

have shared and benefited from, but it's our own white working class

:20:31.:20:36.

kids who are not getting the benefit of that, and the issue,

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I would suggest, is so much bigger than the type of school.

:20:40.:20:46.

There's been a significant misinformation put out there

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about the achievement in the education system in Kent.

:20:49.:20:50.

Children in Kent achieve above national average

:20:51.:20:52.

The system does well and we know that, particularly within that

:20:53.:20:56.

system, children on low incomes, children with free school meals,

:20:57.:20:59.

or in receipt of pupil premium, are doing especially well

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in our grammar schools that enables those children to make up the gap

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between themselves and other children with greater advantages.

:21:06.:21:13.

The ongoing debate on social mobility.

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The main focus of attention at Westminster this week

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is the Autumn Statement , which will be delivered

:21:19.:21:20.

for the first time by the Chancellor Philip Hammond.

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More often than not in Budget speeches and Autumn Statements,

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there are announcements concerning additional money

:21:25.:21:26.

So, by way of a pre-cursor to the Autumn Statement,

:21:27.:21:30.

MPs been arguing over the state of the NHS finances

:21:31.:21:33.

Public health budgets, which fund projects to tackle

:21:34.:21:39.

teenage pregnancy, anti-smoking interventions, alcohol consumption,

:21:40.:21:44.

sexually transmitted disease infections, this public health

:21:45.:21:47.

budget has been cut by 9.7% by the end of this Parliament -

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a completely false economy, leading to greater demands

:21:53.:21:56.

on the acute sector and, of course, we all know -

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as My Right Honourable Friend, the member for Worsley,

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so brilliantly outlined last week - the adult social care

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budget has been slashed and is on the brink.

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I'll give way. I'm extremely grateful.

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I think the House will take him somewhat more seriously if he did

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point out that, by 2019-20, the real terms increase in spending

:22:16.:22:21.

on the health service will be ?10 billion and, during the last

:22:22.:22:26.

election, his party only promised to increase spending

:22:27.:22:33.

in this Parliament by a quarter of that - ?2.5 billion!

:22:34.:22:40.

The Right Honourable Gentleman was the Minister who took

:22:41.:22:43.

the Health and Social Act through this Parliament,

:22:44.:22:45.

which wasted ?3 billion on an unnecessary top-down reorganisation.

:22:46.:22:48.

He should be apologising to the House,

:22:49.:22:51.

Now, I want to make a little bit of progress.

:22:52.:22:57.

We are seeing unprecedented cuts to social care,

:22:58.:23:02.

that has meant the numbers of people aged over 65 accessing

:23:03.:23:04.

publicly-funded social care will fall by 26%.

:23:05.:23:07.

Does he agree with me that, when funding is cut,

:23:08.:23:10.

then our hospitals seek to raise cash in other ways?

:23:11.:23:13.

Like the unacceptable level of car parking charges in our hospitals.

:23:14.:23:19.

Charges which the government promised, before

:23:20.:23:21.

As we have the Leader of the Opposition here, he said,

:23:22.:23:25.

the King's Fund said, "Claims of mass privatisation

:23:26.:23:27.

were and are exaggerated," so let's not go chasing down rabbit holes.

:23:28.:23:30.

But the result of this government's, then to be images is that real

:23:31.:23:38.

terms spending per head has gone up by 4.6%.

:23:39.:23:40.

That is double the rate of Scotland, three times the rate of Wales.

:23:41.:23:46.

And he also mentioned the National Audit Office.

:23:47.:23:52.

What he didn't mention about the numbers quoted in the

:23:53.:23:54.

NAO report was they are last year's figures and what he chose not

:23:55.:23:57.

to mention was this year's numbers, published last week,

:23:58.:24:01.

which showed 40 fewer trusts in deficit.

:24:02.:24:03.

Yes, a year ago, half of trusts were missing their financial plans,

:24:04.:24:06.

but now, 86% of trusts are hitting their financial plans.

:24:07.:24:12.

A Labour MP says organ donors should be guaranteed

:24:13.:24:14.

the right to paid leave, so they can recover from operations

:24:15.:24:17.

Louise Haigh introduced a Bill under the ten minute rule.

:24:18.:24:23.

It would bring in statutory leave for donors.

:24:24.:24:27.

She said the lack of any legislation was holding back potential donors.

:24:28.:24:31.

For young people in particular, who have the highest likelihood

:24:32.:24:35.

of donating high-quality bone marrow, that time out

:24:36.:24:39.

of the workplace may completely deter you.

:24:40.:24:43.

So that's why my Bill will guarantee living organ donors the right

:24:44.:24:46.

to paid time off to allow them to recover safe in the knowledge

:24:47.:24:49.

that they will not be financially penalised and that their job will be

:24:50.:24:52.

These guarantees will not only bring peace of mind,

:24:53.:24:56.

but will help increase the number of living donors

:24:57.:24:59.

from 1000 and bridge the gap between availability and need.

:25:00.:25:02.

But crucially, it will send a clear signal from government

:25:03.:25:05.

and from this House that, if you are prepared to give

:25:06.:25:12.

an organ to save a life, the law will back

:25:13.:25:15.

you every step of the way. Hear, hear!

:25:16.:25:17.

but is unlikely to become law in its present form.

:25:18.:25:23.

Do join me for our next daily round up.

:25:24.:25:27.

Until then, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye.

:25:28.:25:33.

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