Browse content similar to 04/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9.15am, I'm Joanna Gosling, | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
A new offer for junior doctors from the Health Secretary. | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
A promise of a rise in basic pay but a cut to extra payments | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
Will it see off the threat of strike action in England? | :00:18. | :00:26. | |
I have worked about 40 hours over the weekend | :00:27. | :00:28. | |
and probably seen upwards of maybe 30, 40, 50 patients. | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
Archaic and slow - our court system is told it's not doing enough | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
Robin Williams' widow speaks publicly for the first time | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
since her husband's death, and reveals he had been suffering | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
Dementia killed Robin, it's what put his life, and that what I spent the | :00:45. | :01:00. | |
last year trying to get to the bottom of... What took my husband's | :01:01. | :01:01. | |
life? We're on BBC Two and the BBC News | :01:02. | :01:09. | |
channel until 11 this morning. I'll be presenting the programme | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
over the next few weeks whilst Victoria continues | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
her treatment for breast cancer. And you can still watch her video | :01:18. | :01:18. | |
diary following her mastectomy by going to our programme page | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
bbc.co.uk/victoria. Over the next couple of hours, | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
we'll keep you across the morning's Also ahead, a committee of MPs has | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
accused HM Revenue and Customs of such poor service that it's | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
a genuine threat to tax collection. The Public Accounts Committee says | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
customer service, which was described as absymal | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
two years ago, has got worse. We'd be interested to hear | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
your stories this morning. Texts will be charged | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch the | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
our website bbc.co.uk/victoria and you can also subscribe to all | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
our features on the news app by going to Add Topics and searching | :02:00. | :02:07. | |
Victoria Derbyshire. Junior doctors have been offered an | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
olive branch by the Health Secretary in a last-ditch attempt to persuade | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
them not to take industrial action. Jeremy Hunt is promising | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
an 11% pay rise but there will be cuts to extra payments | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
for working unsociable hours. At the moment, junior doctors | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
provide most of the staffing in hospitals during the weekends | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
but receive a higher rate of pay when they work outside of 7am | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
to 7pm Monday to Friday. Under the new deal, the number | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
of hours classified as normal would extend from 7am to 10pm | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
Monday to Friday. This week, ballot papers | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
are being sent out by the British Medical Association asking | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
its members whether they want There are no plans to introduce | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
the changes in Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland is yet to make | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
a decision. Here's what the the Health Secretary | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
Jeremy Hunt had to say earlier We have been wanting to negotiate | :02:51. | :03:05. | |
with the BMA since June but they have refused to sit around the table | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
with us. Instead they have balloted for industrial action, which starts | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
tomorrow, so I thought the only responsible thing to do is to | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
publish our offer when it is clear they are not interested in any | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
negotiation. But I just think that video diary that you showed sums up | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
the whole issue. Junior doctors are the backbone of the NHS. We totally | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
depend on them, they are the ones that work the bulk of nights and | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
weekends. I hope they will listen carefully to what Professor Sir | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Bruce Keogh, the NHS England medical director says today, when he says | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
the new proposals I am making, if they are lamented properly, will | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
improve Haitian safety by stopping hospitals -- if they are implemented | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
properly, will improve patient safety. By removing the disincentive | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
from hospitals to roster evenly throughout the weekend, which means | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
we have three times less medical cover at weekends. This is a very | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
good thing for doctors currently working extremely hard. They will | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
feel much better supported when they go into those A departments as a | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
result of these changes. The brittle medical Association says it has not | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
seen the proposals and is still planning to send out ballot papers. | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
-- the British Medical Association. This video diary describes what life | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
is like on the wards as a junior doctor. | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
Hi, I'm a junior doctor and I currently | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
It's my face along with the nursing staff and support staff | :04:40. | :04:50. | |
that's one of the first you see when you walk into the A Department. | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
I'm just about to start a run of four night shifts over a weekend | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
and I have spent the day trying to get my body into night shift mode. | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
I have just finished up treating an elderly lady who complimented me | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
on how young I look considering I'm a doctor. | :05:04. | :05:05. | |
I guess I'm one of the younger doctors in the hospital, but it is | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
important to realise that overnight in the vast majority of hospitals up | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
and down the country, our hospitals are run by junior doctors. | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
The registrar leading my A team tonight was a junior doctor. | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
The registrar looking after the wards and leading the team | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
The term "junior" is a bit misleading, really. | :05:28. | :05:38. | |
It does not always mean inexperienced. | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
Some of the registrars have ten or more years' experience. | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
I have worked about 40 hours over the weekend and probably seen | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
upwards of maybe 30,40, 50 patients over the space of the weekend. | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
The unfaltering trust that patients and family members put in us | :05:58. | :06:07. | |
on a day to day basis is second to none really. | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
It really is an enjoyable job and I would not swap it for anything else. | :06:13. | :06:21. | |
Let's talk now to some more junior doctors. | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
Dr Janis Burns, an anesthetic trainee, Dr Nadia | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
What is your reaction to the new proposal? It hasn't changed my mind | :06:31. | :06:43. | |
on how to vote. The 11% rise that is the headline Jeremy Hunt is going | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
with is not an improvement on the previous proposed contract, which | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
was not acceptable either. Previously, the review body had | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
recommended 14-15% increase in basic salary to offset the loss of the | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
banding supplement we would be getting. So offering 11% is even | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
less of an increase than was suggested. Even that proposal was | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
not enough to avoid the situation we found ourselves in. He has moved on | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
which ours will be classified as anti-social... Only by three hours | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
on a Saturday. The original proposal was Saturday seven AM-10 PM. He has | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
now decided he will take it from seven AM-7 PM on a Saturday instead, | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
so he is only offering three hours extra pay. It is not a big move at | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
all. With the 11%, which is less than the 15%, there is no actual | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
difference in pay at all, and it might even be more of a pay cut than | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
before, we don't know. I agree, but one of the things that concerns me | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
in the press release this morning was the move that our educational | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
supervisors will be involved in regulating the hours and making sure | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
that we don't work excess periods. That concerns me, because | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
educational supervisors are clinicians, doctors, they are our | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
seniors, they are not Human Resource Manager is. It is a bit disingenuous | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
to put that role on our educational supervisors. It muddies the waters | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
between their interests in our education and their interests in | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
making sure they are providing a service. While I think a work based | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
review system is a good idea, I don't think that our educational | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
supervisors are the appropriate people to be doing it. What about | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
what is good for patients in the end? A seven-day service, working | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
out a way of it being affordable for the health service in difficult | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
times? Yes, I haven't spoken to a doctor yet who wants patients... We | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
all want them to be better off, we want them to be looked after. We | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
struggle now, and as far as I can tell there are no plans to increase | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
the number of doctors all the funding. ?22 billion of efficiency | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
savings, and the promise of ?8 - 10 billion investment over the course | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
of the government. If we can't make ?22 billion of savings, ?8 million | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
is not going to negate that. Where is the extra money coming from to | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
provide seven-day services? If you want a seven-day service, you need | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
to invest more. The DDR be said that in their proposals, which Jeremy | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
Hunt totally ignored. You need to invest more resources. If you have | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
the same number of doctors working over a greater period of time, take | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
me away on a Wednesday, bring me on a Saturday... It is an allusion that | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
the service is going to work with this new contract. An e-mail that | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
says, people who are supposed to be intelligent, such as doctors and | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
teachers, do not realise that the country is broke, and every pound | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
they get has to be taken from someone else, many of whom are | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
poorer than they are. We are all in this together, apparently, in times | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
of austerity. We are not as well paid as people think we are, and | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
threatening us with a pay cut when we are already overworked and | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
demoralised, working conditions have gone downhill... Threatening us with | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
a pay cut is not going to strengthen morale, doctors will leave and that | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
will be much worse for the NHS. How much are you paid and how many hours | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
do you work? I am starting a new job today but my average hours per week | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
would be between 50-56 hours per week. I often need to supplement my | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
income, especially living in London where the cost of living is a lot | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
higher. The salary I get, I can just about afford my basic living costs. | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
I have a basic salary and a banding on top of that. My basic salary is | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
about 40,000, and then I have a 40% supplement. I will start by telling | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
you how much I pay per month in debt repayment for my student loans... | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
Tell us how much you earn. The average salary across the country is | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
?26,500. People will think doctors are paid a lot more than that. The | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
average salary for people highly educated, who have spent five or six | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
years in university accumulating massive debts, responsible for | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
paying their own registration fees, paying for their own continuing | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
professional development, which is a requirement for us to continue | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
practising medicine in this country, the average salary of those skilled | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
workers is not 26,000. Bankers get a lot more than we do. We get much | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
less than they do and we are just as intelligent. Why shouldn't more | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
hours be classified as normal working hours? We are 24/7 society. | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
I agree, but the bottom line, our society has not evolved where people | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
and children go to school seven days a week, they got five days a week. | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
Parents and families meet on a Saturday and Sunday. If children go | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
to school seven days a week, fine, but at the moment Saturday and | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
Sunday are still regarded as the weekend. I already give up my | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
weekends to work and I am recompense for that at the moment. I am happy | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
to work weekend, I did not think I would become a doctor and not work | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
weekends and nights, but what I object to is it being made out... We | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
are not asking for more, we are just not asking for less. I contacted the | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
Department of Health in March or April to find out what was happening | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
with doctors' pay. I did not think that fast forward six months I would | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
be fighting not to have my pay cut. I don't want more pay, but I don't | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
want a pay cut. Jeremy Hunt says that in his latest proposals, 1% of | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
junior doctors will be worse off. He says there is no intention to make | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
junior doctors worse off, and that actually they are guaranteeing the | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
maximum hours that you can work per week will be reduced. 1% is still | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
too much, not a single doctors should lose out in this new | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
contract. All doctors work hard across the board. He says it is | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
still negotiable, should the BMA go back to the table? Yes, when the | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
Department of Health have taken away the threat of the imposition of a | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
new contract. This morning he said he would not definitely impose it, | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
so is it time for the BMA to go back to the table? When it is in writing. | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
He has used the press, the Telegraph, the Guardian, the BBC. If | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
Jeremy Hunt would like to put it into the press that he would remove | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
the threat of imposition and that he will have proper, genuine | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
negotiations, then the BMA will go back to negotiations happily. But we | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
are not being given what we are asked for. We walked away because we | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
have been going round in circles. We need to start going in a straight | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
line and the Department of Health are not facilitating that. The | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
original Lugosi Asians, lasting over two or three years. -- the original | :14:18. | :14:25. | |
negotiations. The Department of Health were not budging, that is not | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
negotiation, that is, we are going to do this and we will talk about | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
how bad it is going to be. We should not be worse off, at all. The BMA | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
have said they want assurances and that once Jeremy Hunt provide them, | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
I would support them going back to negotiations. So far that hasn't | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
happened. Do you think it is likely that this ballot for strike action | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
will be successful, and what then happens? There are two questions. We | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
have not seen the ballot papers yet... Nobody wants to walk out. But | :15:00. | :15:09. | |
what we envisage in the future, if this contract goes ahead, is a much | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
worse scenario and that is what we are trying to avoid. We have been | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
given so much support from our employers, from consultants, from | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
our hospital colleagues. We have been assured that if the situation | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
arose if we were to walk out, and we're not saying that will | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
definitely happen, there is still time for the government to respond | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
provide us with assurances where the BMA can return to the table and | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
avoid a strike. But if it came to that, we would put everything in | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
place to make sure that patients do not suffer and no one comes to harm. | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
It sounds like it is close to a situation where he is saying that no | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
junior doctors will be worse off, 1%, I know you are saying that is | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
still too much. If there were a guarantee that no junior doctor | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
would be worse off, then this would be an acceptable deal? It is one of | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
the assurances that the BMA have asked for, but there is also patient | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
safety. We want to make sure that no junior doctor will be worse off, | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
including those taking time out for academic training. But a single | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
doctor should lose pay, we want the threat of imposition removed, but | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
the current safeguards in place to ensure doctors are not overwork, to | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
protect the safety of doctors and patients, they need to be in place | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
and he has not addressed that at all at the moment. One of the things I | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
am concerned about, Jeremy Hunt keeps referring to doctors as the | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
backbone of the national health service. I find that quite insulting | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
to my colleagues. service. I find that quite insulting | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
a team. We work with nurses, porters, radiographers, | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
physiotherapists. We have all been subjected to pay restraint for | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
however many years, and to say we are the backbone, we are not, we are | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
part of a backbone. Multiple bones, we need everyone else. It is not | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
just our terms and conditions we are fighting for. We are doing it for | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
the negotiations that will succeed hours. We have to look out for the | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
rest of our team. It is not just about junior doctors, it is everyone | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
else in the National Health Service. It is a beginning of a fight for | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
everyone in the NHS, the doctors and nurses, the non-medical staff, they | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
are the heart of the NHS. If you start demoralising all of them, | :17:24. | :17:25. | |
are the heart of the NHS. If you are going to move on to the | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
are the heart of the NHS. If you the staff and the NHS will not | :17:30. | :17:29. | |
survive. Thank you Is the cost of going to university | :17:30. | :17:42. | |
deterring some would-be students? We will be finding out. Internet firms | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
will have two store details of online activity for 12 months on | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
under a new law, we will find out the details and look at how other | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
countries and all surveillance. A new pay offer for junior doctors | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
from the Health Secretary. Jeremy Hunt promises an 11% increase | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
in basic pay to see off strike action in England, but | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
there'll be cuts to extra payments The British Medical Association is | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
accusing the Government of failing to provide assurances that the | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
contract would be safe and fair. The only responsible thing for me to | :18:14. | :18:28. | |
do is the day before the ballot, after refusing to talk to the | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
government, is to say, look at the facts. Internet companies may have | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
to store details about online activity for a year and a new draft | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
surveillance law, ministers say it is necessary to fight terrorism and | :18:41. | :18:42. | |
serious crime. A group of MPs says that the level | :18:43. | :18:52. | |
of customer service provided by HM Revenue and Customs is acceptably | :18:53. | :18:54. | |
poor. And a genuine threat to tax The Public Accounts Committee says | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
customer service, which was described as abysmal | :19:03. | :19:04. | |
two years ago, had got worse, and they were particularly critical | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
of the failure to prosecute The Crown Court system in England | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
and Wales is "structured mayhem" with many delays, | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
that's according to a new report The study by the coalition | :19:14. | :19:15. | |
of 90 justice campaign groups says courts are not doing enough | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
for victims and witnesses. The widow of Robin Williams has | :19:20. | :19:29. | |
spoken publicly for the first The actor took his own life | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
last August, leading many to Susan Williams told Good Morning | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
America her husband had been She said, "He is not up yet. | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
What should I do?" Jess has the sport now, and news of | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
a trailblazer for women's motorsport Susie Wolff is retiring at the end | :19:44. | :20:01. | |
of the season, she was the first woman to take part in a Formula 1 | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
Grand Prix in more than 20 years but she says her dream is not going to | :20:06. | :20:07. | |
happen, she has been with the Williams team since 2012 as a | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
development driver, she has been in motorsport all her life, darting as | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
a young girl in karting. How accessible is carting for young | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
girls? -- motorsport. It is not the kind of thing that you will do in | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
the playground. When she retires Susie Wolff plans an initiative to | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
get more women into motorsport and show that it is not just a sport for | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
boys and it is an option for women as well. We will have a round-up of | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
the Champions League action from last night, wins for both British | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
sides in action, Manchester United and Manchester City, and in cricket | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
we are into the crucial fourth day of the test between England and | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
Pakistan, Mohammad Hafeez caused a lot of damage for England in the | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
morning session, he made 151, they almost stumped him much earlier. A | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
lead of 185 runs, we will have all of that for you at 10am. | :21:03. | :21:13. | |
Thousands of students are set to march for | :21:14. | :21:15. | |
The protest, organised by the National Campaign | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
Against Fees and Cuts, is calling for free education and full | :21:19. | :21:20. | |
But after violence has marred previous student protests, | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
The fact is, all graduates will pay less per month than they presently | :21:24. | :21:44. | |
do under the scheme inherited from Labour. The fact is, at least one in | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
four of the lowest paid graduates will pay less in total than they do | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
now. You have not got your message through. Given all of the other | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
pressures we have got, this is the best deal available to us. Seems to | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
me there is a big crossroads for Britain, the Cross Rhodes is this, | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
you would create a society where the next generation has greater | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
opportunities than the last? Do we pull up that ladder of opportunity? | :22:15. | :22:26. | |
It is about what you spend it on, education is the most important | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
thing, it is how we get our economy, our country's economy, it is how we | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
make it improve. 50,000 students have come to protest | :22:35. | :22:47. | |
peacefully, they have made a serious point, but they are in jeopardy of | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
being completely undermined by the outrageous and violent actions of a | :22:52. | :22:52. | |
small minority. Responsibility for smashing | :22:53. | :23:05. | |
property, for violence, lies with the people that perpetrate that | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
violence and I want to see them arrested and punished in correct | :23:10. | :23:10. | |
way. If we have lost your trust, that is | :23:11. | :23:26. | |
how I hope we can start to win it back... And 2016/17 we will replace | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
maintenance grants with loans for new students, loans that only have | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
to be paid back once they earn over ?21,000 a year. Let me be fair about | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
students, we welcome students coming to study. But the fact is, too many | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
of them are not returning home as soon as their Visa runs out. | :23:51. | :24:00. | |
We can speak with Debra Hammonds, organising the protest today, she | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
wants free education for students, and we can speak with a college | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
student going along to the protest, and we are joined from Leicester by | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
sayyid Ali, a law student who disagrees with free education for | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
students, as does fill, a politics student in Liverpool. -- Sayeed Ali. | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
You have organised this demonstration, there has been a | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
change in the politics with all of this with Jeremy Corbyn saying that | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
he would like to abolish tuition fees. Has this dynamic change? | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
Definitely, we are seeing that free education is no longer a pipe dream, | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
it has become a mainstream issue, when the Leader of the Opposition is | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
calling for new tuition fees, for maintenance grants to stay, and is | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
proposing that, as his first policy pledge in his election campaign, | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
then I think there is a real feeling among students that now is the time | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
that we can achieve this. Why do you think you say that there is a real | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
feeling, RUC in more getting in touch? Meetings that may be in the | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
previous years got 20, now we have 200. -- are you seeing more getting | :25:15. | :25:25. | |
in touch? The cutting of maintenance grants was even worse than the | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
tripling of tuition fees, 1 million poor students are now not going to | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
receive financial support. The fees have not deterred students, record | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
numbers have been going. Those figures are really misleading. Since | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
tuition fees were triple, university places have been extended. The | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
government is now talking about capping places in universities, as | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
well as that, part-time students have gone down by 48%, working class | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
students, parents, mature students. These numbers show that even though | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
there is more students in general in universities, there is still a | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
problem, and with the measures now, I believe that the changes to | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
requirements of loans and the changes to maintenance grants is | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
going to determine working-class students. One third of students can | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
receive maintenance grants, they would not have gone if it were not | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
for that. I think the figures speak for themselves, when it comes to the | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
number of students that have taken up places at University recently. | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
There was a study in the Guardian recently which said that | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
working-class students and students from a lower socioeconomic class are | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
70% more likely now to go to university than they were in 2005 | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
under the Labour government. I think it is fundamentally wrong to expect | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
taxpayers to themselves may have never benefited from a university | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
education to pay for hours. I think that asking cleaners, binmen, and | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
other working people to pay for an education which we will ultimately | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
benefit from to a June of several hundred thousand pounds over the | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
course of our working lives is unacceptable. Syed Ali, what is your | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
perspective, you get a full maintenance grant, so you will be | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
affected by the changes to maintenance grants, what do you | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
think about free education? I think higher tuition fees has fostered a | :27:41. | :27:47. | |
culture in university of hard work, more students feel the need to go to | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
lectures and seminars, forcing them to take up extracurricular stuff to | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
boost CDs. They know that once they graduate, they will be in for a | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
fierce competition to apply for graduate roles, up to 70 students | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
applying for one role. It is completely unfair for taxpayers to | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
fund the education. Going to university is a luxury, it is a | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
choice that we make. More unfair on the 30 million British people who | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
live below the poverty line. Is it fare for them to fund our education? | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
What said is exactly the problem, this idea that because we are now | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
paying money and working hard and expecting more from universities, | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
this idea that we are consumers, like clients, in the university, is | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
a problem, it has led to education not been for the sake of learning. | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
Soon universities will be allowed to increase fees depending upon how | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
employable their students are, that means arts courses, sociology, | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
philosophy, all of these incredibly vital courses, they are already | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
being cut across the board. Because, of fiercely, your employability | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
chances will be lower. I know that you want to study art and film, | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
Sahayah, you are protesting, why is that? I'm protesting because | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
fundamentally I believe that education is a social good, it is a | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
right, it should be free and accessible. It is not just an issue | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
of tuition fees and isolation, we asked the then escalated progression | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
towards a system which is completely market eyes, education system | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
stripped of its value, inherent value, and sharing of ideas and | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
learning, instead we are seeing something where universities are | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
there to create the most employable graduates. What I'm particularly | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
concerned about is the scrapping of maintenance grants and covering my | :29:54. | :30:01. | |
living costs. It is the 1 million poor students that are going to be | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
affected by the cutting of maintenance grants. That is very | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
reflective of the Tory agenda as a whole, where from tax credits to | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
things like the maintenance grants, we are seeing those that are most | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
vulnerable and worse off who are getting hit hardest. It goes against | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
something that was from the arguments made for tuition fees in | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
2010, where it was that everyone, regardless of your family's income | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
would be paying the same. This is exactly going back on that. It shows | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
that the government is beginning to become completely unafraid to make | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
this change. You have said graduates will earn hundreds of thousands of | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
extra pounds over the course of their careers compared with | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
non-graduates, but it depends in the end on what kind of career you go | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
into, what if you want to study for the love of studying, an arts | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
degree, and not just have aspirations to earn a huge amount of | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
money over your career? If you do not, we have set up the repayment | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
schedule in place, so that if you do not earn more than 21,000, you will | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
not pay back your loan, the government will write it off within | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
30 years, and an awful lot of people do not actually pay back their full | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
loan. You can still go for the love of learning. But what we are saying | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
is, if you benefit, in your wages, you should pay back to the Exchequer | :31:31. | :31:38. | |
for the education you have received. Here is where the issue comes in, | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
the government knows that in a few years' time, the system of loans is | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
going to be worse for the British taxpayer than what we had before. | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
Because of that, it is currently trying to change, or it is going to | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
change, the repayment conditions of loans, it is proposing to freeze the | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
threshold of ?21,000, for the next couple of years, which will mean | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
that in effect, the lowest paid student will have to pay back more | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
of their alone. -- there loan. If you are a student, | :32:11. | :32:22. | |
you have already signed your contract for your student loan, you | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
may be paying back more. And this is going to affect women more than men | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
because of the gender pay gap. -- their loan. | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
Did the prospect of leaving with ?50,000 of debt affect your career | :32:36. | :32:44. | |
choice long-term? When I first looked at it, a loan of ?27,000 over | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
three years looked quite daunting. When I considered I could | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
potentially earn a lot more over time than a person who has not gone | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
to university, it made sense. The tuition fees that you pay go towards | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
improving facilities on campus, so it does benefit in the end. A final | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
thought, you said you think there is new momentum among students. What is | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
in store? Obviously we have 10,000, potentially more, students from | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
across the country... How can you be sure there are 10,000? When you were | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
talking earlier about people turning up to meetings on campus, it was | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
from 20 to 200, quite limited. There are 800 universities and colleges | :33:32. | :33:39. | |
across the UK. Students are actually talking about running a student | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
strike, looking at what is happening in South Africa, where the fees were | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
just stopped. Successful movements in Montreal in the past few years. | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
We can expect a mass revolt from students in the coming months. This | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
isn't just about fees and education. We are seeing the government being | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
defeated on tax credits, being defeated on the junior doctor | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
contracts. These movements are going to link up in the next few months | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
and the government is going to struggle a lot. Thank you for | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
joining us. Let us know what you think. Also coming up, worse than | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
abysmal, that's the damning verdict on the tax office from a group of | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
MPs. We will find out why its customer service is so poor. | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
Internet firms will have to store details of people's online activity | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
for a year under plans for a new surveillance law | :34:37. | :34:38. | |
It's all part of the Government's Investigatory Powers Bill. | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
Critics have branded it a "snooper's charter" for the police, | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
David Cameron says it's one of the most important pieces | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
Security chiefs say this legislation is long overdue | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
and it has the backing of three major reports in the last year | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
that broadly agree there should be no safe space online for criminals. | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
So how do similar laws work elsewhere? | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
We've been trying to find out what happens in other countries around | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
Anthony Glees is from the Centre for Security and Intelligence Studies | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
Tell us what we can learn from other countries, starting with how it | :35:18. | :35:28. | |
works in America. You have to distinguish between the general | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
position and the specific position. The general position in the United | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
states of America is that the CIA should not spy on Americans inside | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
America. And outside America. The general position is that the FBI can | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
investigate people with warrants, and the general position is that the | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
NSA can also gain access to Americans' communication from inside | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
America. That is the general position, because the two Patriot | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
acts passed after 9/11, which give the intelligence agencies in America | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
sweeping powers. So the things that are being done despite Edward | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
Snowden's allegations are not necessarily an awful. But when you | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
come to the particular issue, you have to ask yourself, how is anybody | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
going to know whether or not their communications have been | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
intercepted? And if they have been intercepted, whether they have been | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
lawfully intercepted? And the answer is that there is huge discussion in | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
the US at the moment particularly about the National Security agency, | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
the American version of GCHQ, as to whether their data collection | :36:47. | :36:48. | |
programmes are consistent with the law or break the law. At the moment, | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
the agencies seem to be winning, but who can tell how it will go? This is | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
secret activity. As for Germany, because of Germany's past, spying is | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
very carefully regulated. And it is strictly against the law that the | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
German version of GCHQ, the BND, also the German version of MA six, | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
it is against the law for them to do any surveillance on any German. -- | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
the German version of MI6. But it is not against the law for them to put | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
Germans outside Germany under surveillance if they are working for | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
foreign companies. In Brussels, for example, or in the United Kingdom. | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
Again, there is the general proposition that privacy is | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
inviolable, you should not allow people in agencies to look. In | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
specific cases, certainly not only can it be done, it is being done. | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
All states do it. The real issue is lawfulness and oversight, | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
proportionality and necessity. So comparing what happens in the United | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
States with Germany, are there claims in Germany that the hands of | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
the security services are tied because of what they can do within | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
Germany itself? The popular culture in Germany is very similar to the | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
popular culture in the United States of America. Which is that people | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
don't trust governments and they don't trust intelligence agencies. | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
If you come from a country with a Gestapo past, a Stasi past, that is | :38:25. | :38:32. | |
understandable. On the other hand, where the intelligence agencies make | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
mistakes, very serious mistakes from 2000-2007, where security officers | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
failed to stop racist murders of Turks in the Federal Republic, then | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
the German people jump up and down and say, why aren't these agencies | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
doing their job? In the United States of America, liberty is very, | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
very important. But what do you do if there are people that want to | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
destroy that liberty? The old distinction between Americans and | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
non-Americans was always that if you were not an American, you wouldn't | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
want to destroy America. The Islamist threat, though, includes | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
people who are perfectly ordinary American citizens. Thank you. | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
Catherine Guilyardi is a French journalist. | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
It was after the Charlie Hebdo killings that the French government | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
Tell us about the change and the impact it has had, the reaction to | :39:24. | :39:35. | |
that. Four months after the killings, the government proposed a | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
law that was passed in July. It allows the government to monitor the | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
phone calls and e-mails of suspected terrorists without the authorisation | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
of a judge. It calls for internet service providers to install | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
so-called black boxes, that sweep up and analyse meta data on millions of | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
web users. It forces them to make that data freely available to | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
intelligence organisations. Intelligence agents will be able to | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
plant microphones, cameras, keystroke technology in the homes of | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
suspected terrorists. One provision that was not bound by the | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
Constitutional Council in July has actually just been voted in October | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
without many French people knowing it, and only eight MPs were here | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
that day, the provision that actually says, now, the intelligence | :40:28. | :40:38. | |
service can actually allow, can actually intercept any | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
communications sent or received overseas. Widely criticised by | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
Amnesty international, because there is a lack of sufficient independent | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
oversight. Instead of getting a judge's approval, the Prime Minister | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
can only seek review of a new body that is called the National | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
community of intelligence. Without any need to abide by them. These are | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
the main criticisms. And Emily Taylor is | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
an internet governance expert. Do government always say the same | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
thing as it is going on behind the scenes? Do they always play by the | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
rules? What we have learned from the Edward Snowden | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
rules? What we have learned from the governments will use whatever data | :41:32. | :41:31. | |
is available to governments will use whatever data | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
ambitions to use more and more and more. So there is | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
ambitions to use more and more and which I think we should be worried | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
about, between the interests of states in monitoring, the sort of | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
dragnet surveillance which states in monitoring, the sort of | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
becoming more and more the ambition, and the alignment between those | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
interests and those of private companies on whose | :41:59. | :42:00. | |
interests and those of private platforms we are spending increasing | :42:01. | :42:01. | |
amounts of our online life. platforms we are spending increasing | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
popular top four websites across the platforms we are spending increasing | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
Yemen are Facebook, Google platforms we are spending increasing | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
in most countries. When Google had an outage a couple of years ago, web | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
traffic dropped by 50%. So we spend a lot of time on these sites, they | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
have a huge amount of data about us. It is only natural that the | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
have a huge amount of data about security services should want access | :42:35. | :42:35. | |
to that data. We know that when to that data. We know that when | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
interests are aligned, there is a gap. Who is looking after the | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
citizen? Thank you all for explaining how it works elsewhere. | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
That is how some other governments are using their surveillance powers. | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
The intelligence services have are using their surveillance powers. | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
they do need access to the information, but will it make a | :42:58. | :42:58. | |
difference to day-to-day policing? Why is it essential? | :42:59. | :43:07. | |
from our Belfast studio now. Why is it essential? | :43:08. | :43:20. | |
the last 15-20 years, elements of intelligence gathering, so | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
the last 15-20 years, elements of moved online. The | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
the last 15-20 years, elements of terrorism has changed. | :43:26. | :43:35. | |
the last 15-20 years, elements of disk wreak terrorist organisations | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
the last 15-20 years, elements of radicalisation of small radicals and | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
groups across the country. -- discrete terrorist organisations. If | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
the security services and the government are going to combat that, | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
they need the tools to do that. So much is done online, people are | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
radicalised online, they carry out intelligence gathering online and | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
they communicate online, so we need a piece of legislation that brings | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
intelligence gathering into the 21st century. Police and intelligence | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
agencies can already intercept communications with a justifiable | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
case. Phone calls can be listened to, vices hacked, e-mails | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
intercepted. What more is needed? -- devices hacked. Tracking the | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
websites that people have been using... Huge amounts of | :44:24. | :44:25. | |
intelligence can be gathered from that. These organisations and | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
individuals use the web to gather intelligence on what to target, they | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
may be looking at specific people and places. They may be looking at | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
bomb manuals online. By having access to that traffic, the security | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
services can tell a lot about the individual, their pattern of life, | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
and what sort of things they are interested in doing. That is vital. | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
The bottom line in all of this is do we want the state to act to protect | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
the lives of citizens? And where does the balance lie between the | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
rights of individual who may have their web traffic interfered with at | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
some stage, and the right of the person walking down the street when | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
a bomb goes off and is killed by it? It is a balancing exercise and the | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
state has to be seen to act, but it has to do so fairly, proportionately | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
and reasonably. Thank you very much. Still to come: Junior doctors are | :45:20. | :45:34. | |
offered a new pay deal from the government. We will get reaction. | :45:35. | :45:46. | |
I was going to start by talking about the weather watchers, it is a | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
brilliant new online club which allows the general public to send | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
their pictures in, or their data, from what they can see outside of | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
their back garden, send the data to the weather bulletins, it will not | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
replace the forecast, but sometimes we have this discrepancy with | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
weather, we say patchy showers, some hit and miss, other areas staying | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
dry, now people can send pictures in the exact what is happening. We have | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
a view weather stations around the country. Big gaps in between. Lovely | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
sunny picture here, sent in from a weather watcher from Oxfordshire. | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
Also allowing you to put symbols and temperatures if you have a weather | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
station there, I have one at home. You have the temperature and | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
humidity of the area, and other features as well, which will be of | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
incredible use to us for the weather bulletins. Recently we have had | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
fog, hit and miss, patchy in nature, so when people like this weather | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
watchers send in areas which are foggy and sunny, we can formulate a | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
good picture. Especially with winter coming up, there will be a lot of | :47:05. | :47:11. | |
pictures. You will be inundated! We love weather stories. It is a | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
brilliant thing for the public to get involved, they could name check | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
their town or village or even Hamlet, which is never usually | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
mentioned. It should be really exciting. -- hamlet. It is very | :47:25. | :47:33. | |
simple to do, once you are up and running, straightforward on the | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
website. What is going on is a lot of clout, outbreaks of rain, across | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
the south-east. There is going to be damp patches across many areas | :47:49. | :47:50. | |
through the morning, that rain will clear away from the south-east, | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
leaving drips and grabs around. Some sunshine spells around, some holes | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
appearing in the cloud, when you get the sunshine, it will feel mild, | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
15, 16 degrees, otherwise looking at 11 to 14 degrees, wind is light. | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
There will be mist and murk around, articulate central northern | :48:11. | :48:12. | |
north-east parts of England, into southern Scotland, rain becoming | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
more confined to northern areas of Scotland, any brightness will be | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
just the Hebrides. Looks like it will take loud it. On the cool side, | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
ten or 11 degrees. We lose the rain in Scotland, across the country, it | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
is going to stay pretty cloudy tonight, quite damp, mist and murk, | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
bit of a change coming into the south-west, versed a series of low | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
pressure, the breeze will be picking up, outbreaks of rain. -- first a | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
series of low pressures. The rest of the week will be mild but there will | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
be low pressure pushing in, rain, and turning windy, severe gales by | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
the time we reach the weekend. Here is the first area pushing in, | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
Thursday morning into the south-west, not very windy but the | :49:02. | :49:03. | |
breeze will be more noticeable than late. -- than of late. Dry start, | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
sunshine confined to the north of Scotland through the day, as the | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
band of rain and breeze continues to spread east across the country, | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
drawing up a little bit, but will still remain damp. 12 to 16 degrees | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
in temperature, pretty mild. Thursday evening, band of rain, | :49:23. | :49:23. | |
continuing to advanced East, for bonfire night, early on in the | :49:24. | :49:33. | |
evening there will be rain, eventually clearing away, and it | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
will be mild and breezy. That is how it is shaping up for bonfire night. | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
As we go into Friday, the next area of low pressure will move in, severe | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
gales to the north-east corner of the country, band of rain spreading | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
east, and a very mild day, temperatures 13 to 17 degrees. | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
Hello it's Wednesday, it's ten o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome | :50:01. | :50:08. | |
to the programme if you've just joined us. Coming up before 11: | :50:09. | :50:16. | |
Junior doctors in England are offered a pay rise | :50:17. | :50:18. | |
in a long running dispute over their contracts - but will it be | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
I do not want more pay, I do not want a pay cut, I did not think that | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
fast forward six months and I would be arguing just to preserve my pay. | :50:28. | :50:37. | |
court system is not doing enough for victims and witnesses. | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
A growing awareness of Lyme Disease, has led to more people worrying | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
We'll hear from people affected by it. | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
The thought that it could be like this for ever really does scare me | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
sometimes. There's a new pay | :50:51. | :50:52. | |
offer for junior doctors. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
promises an 11% rise but with cuts to extra payments | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
for unsociable hours. The British Medical Association is | :51:02. | :51:03. | |
due to start balloting industrial action tomorrow but junior doctors | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
told this programme they aren't Mr Hunt says he's still | :51:07. | :51:08. | |
willing to negotiate. They have proceeded to ballot for | :51:09. | :51:21. | |
industrial action that begins tomorrow, so I thought the only | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
responsible thing to do is to publish what the offer is today, so | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
it -- when it is clear that they are not interested in any kind of | :51:31. | :51:31. | |
negotiation. is expected to force internet | :51:32. | :51:39. | |
companies to store details about customers' online activity | :51:40. | :51:46. | |
for a year. New legislation | :51:47. | :51:48. | |
on how the police and security services access web data and private | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
communications is published today. A group of MPS says the level of | :51:51. | :51:52. | |
customer service provided by HM is unacceptably poor and a | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
"genuine threat to tax collection." The Public Accounts Committee says | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
customer service, which was described | :51:59. | :52:00. | |
as abysmal two years ago, had got worse and they were particularly | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
critical of the failure to prosecute Victims and witnesses in Crown | :52:04. | :52:17. | |
Courts can be confused, marginalised and alienated by the system in | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
England and Wales - according to the Criminal Justice Alliance. That's a | :52:21. | :52:22. | |
coalition of 90 justice campaign groups. Its report talks of | :52:23. | :52:24. | |
"structured mayhem" with many delays. And the widow of Robin | :52:25. | :52:26. | |
Williams has spoken publicly for the first time since her husband's | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
death. The actor took his own life last August, leading many to blame | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
depression for his death. Susan Williams told Good Morning America | :52:32. | :52:33. | |
her husband had been suffering from a form of dementia. Dementia killed | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
Robin, it is what took his life, and that is what I have spent the last | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
year trying to get to the bottom of, what took my husband's life? | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Jess. | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
Susie Wolff is retiring from motorsport, she was the first | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
Susie Wolff is retiring from to take part in a Formula 1 Grand | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
Prix for more than 20 years, but the Williams test driver feels her | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
Prix for more than 20 years, but the beyond her, she insists it was not | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
due to her being a woman. I do not believe it was just because of my | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
gender, in Formula 1 we talk about it being the pinnacle of the sport, | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
every driver is aiming for Formula 1, and there are many that do not | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
make it and I was one of those that did not but I got much more | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
attention because of my gender, because of the hope that a female | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
would make it onto the grid. There is more women coming in, getting the | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
job because they are the best in the job, not because of their gender, | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
nobody has been on a quest to get more women into motorsport. I want | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
to inspire the next generation, I want to make sure young little girls | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
realise want to make sure young little girls | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
for them, it is not a boy sport. Cricket, day four of the third and | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
final test between England and Pakistan under way, England started | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
well taking an early wicket, Mohammad Hafeez dragged his heels | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
in. -- dug his heels in. 151, before being called by Ian Bell. Pakistan | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
292-6 a few months ago, lead of 220 runs. Leading the series 1-0. | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
Manchester City arc through to the runs. Leading the series 1-0. | :54:11. | :54:17. | |
after a 3 -1 victory over serve all last night, goals from Raheem | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
Sterling and Fernandinho in the opening 15 minutes gave Manchester | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
City advantage. -- over severe. The attacking | :54:26. | :54:27. | |
City advantage. -- over severe. The Wilfried Bony adding another midway | :54:28. | :54:34. | |
through the half. -- over Sevilla. Good night for the red side of | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
Manchester as well, Manchester United beating CSKA Moscow, Captain | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
Wayne Rooney with the header late on. Tonight it is a small and | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
Chelsea in Champions League action, Arsenal are away to Bayern Munich, | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
Chelsea desperately need a win at home to Dynamo Kyiv to ease the | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
mounting pressure on manager Jose Mourinho. -- tonight it is Arsenal | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
and Chelsea. There has been a lot of criticism from many within the game | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
towards Jose Mourinho. When you get so much from the game and you are in | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
a position of responsibility, I do not doubt that Jose Mourinho loves | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
the game to death, lives and breathes it every minute but when | :55:14. | :55:15. | |
you do not take responsibility for your actions, there is an impact on | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
the rest of football. That is my concern. And finally, what about | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
this, for I welcome home for the New Zealand rugby team, fresh from the | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
All Blacks winning the World Cup, earlier this summer, they were | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
greeted to this. Ground crew for national carrier, Air New Zealand, | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
performing the Haka. Pretty impressive, thousands of fans there, | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
showing off their trophy, led by the captain, Richie McCaw, New Zealand | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
the first team in rugby union history to retain the World Cup. | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
Even more impressive, that the staff were doing that at 7am! | :55:55. | :56:02. | |
Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme | :56:03. | :56:13. | |
if you've just joined us, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
I'll be presenting the programme over the next few weeks | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
whilst Victoria continues her treatment for breast cancer. | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
you can still watch her video diary following her mastectomy | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
by going to our programme page bbc.co,uk/victoria. | :56:33. | :56:34. | |
so far this morning on proposals to increase the pay of junior doctors. | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
Tweet from Vivian - The hourly rate for Junior doctors is low. | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
They care about their patients, They need time off. | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
there are no un-social hours, illness is not 9-5, | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
join the world the rest of us are in. | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
All we hear is "overtime rates" and long hours, get over it. | :56:52. | :56:53. | |
Pay is what you can get not what you want. | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
Really keen to hear your story, | :56:57. | :56:57. | |
texts will be charged at the standard network rate. | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
And of course you can watch the programme online | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
wherever you are via the bbc news app or our website | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
bbc.co.uk/victoria -and you can also subscribe to all our features on the | :57:11. | :57:12. | |
news app, by going to add topics and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire' | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
Straight to that new, an olive branch has been offered by the | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
Health Secretary this morning in a lots to ditch attempt to persuade | :57:20. | :57:21. | |
junior doctors not to take industrial action, Jeremy Hunt | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
promises an 11% pay rise but there will be cuts to extra payments | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
forwarding unsociable hours. At the moment, junior doctors provide most | :57:33. | :57:34. | |
of the staffing in hospitals during the weekends but receive a higher | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
rate of pay when they work outside of 7am to 7pm Monday to Friday. | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
Under the new deal the number of hours classified as normal would be | :57:41. | :57:42. | |
extended. This week ballot papers are being sent out by the British | :57:43. | :57:44. | |
Medical Association asking its members whether they want to take | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
industrial action. There are no plans to introduce the changes in | :57:49. | :57:50. | |
Scotland and Wales - and Northern Ireland is yet to make a decision. | :57:51. | :58:00. | |
Live now to our political guru Norman Smith. He has done this by | :58:01. | :58:10. | |
the media, what is the calculation? This is high wire politics, I guess, | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
rough rule of thumb is that governments getting involved in bust | :58:15. | :58:22. | |
ups with doctors, nurses, is almost a guaranteed public-relations | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
catastrophe, the risks are immense. I think that his calculation is that | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
he has come up with this really sizeable headline four of 11% and | :58:31. | :58:37. | |
his hope is that a lot of people will think this is an awful lot of | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
money, a darn sight bigger pay rise than I am getting, what are they | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
moaning about? That is the calculation. The risk, of course, is | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
that we get sucked into a dispute with doctors, patient care, | :58:52. | :58:58. | |
splattered across the headlines. One thing that has struck me, I had a | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
long chat with Jeremy Hunt this morning and he clearly sees this as | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
a red line issue. He's not the backing off will stop his argument, | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
bluntly, is that in the manifesto the Conservatives headline the | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
postal was that they wanted to create a 7 days a week 24 hour NHS | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
and changing junior doctors hours is absolutely pivotal to that, trying | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
to make sure more of them work anti-social hours, work weekends and | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
so on and so forth because the argument at the moment is that it is | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
a ramshackle service at weekends and in the evenings and patient safety | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
is put at risk. The other way he's tried to make the argument is really | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
to paint the British Medical Association as some kind of style | :59:45. | :59:51. | |
calcitonin trade union, Don Willingham negotiate with their head | :59:52. | :59:54. | |
in the sand and saying no, no, no. -- unwilling to negotiate. He was | :59:55. | :00:01. | |
rebuffing the idea that he was grandstanding and seeking to beat | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
them about the head. There is no grandstanding at all, what normally | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
happens is you say what you would like to do and you ask them to sit | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
around the table and discuss it. They have refused to talk with us | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
about it. The only responsible thing to do is the day before they ballot | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
members for the industrial action, after refusing to talk to the | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
government, is to say, look at the facts. There is one other huge | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
hulking reason why this is high wire politics, and that is, the shadow of | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
Andrew Lansley, the last Health Secretary, Andrew Lansley, after the | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
last election, came waltzing along with plans to shake up the NHS, | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
involved in an almighty bust up, that led to his demise, major grief | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
and anxiety in government as they had to rewrite large chunks of the | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
plan. The real danger is that Jeremy Hunt suffers a repeat of the Andrew | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
Lansley years. Let's remember what happened to Andrew Lansley, take a | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
look at this, when he turned up for a Downing Street summit, on the NHS. | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
SHOUTING It is not for sale... SHOUTING | :01:11. | :01:20. | |
This is 1974, don't you... This is 1970... SHOUTING | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
Be under no illusions, everyone in government will remember what | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
happened to Andrew Lansley, will remember the political grief they | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
suffered from his attempt at reforms, and they will be incredibly | :01:40. | :01:40. | |
anxious. They will be concerned that Jeremy | :01:41. | :01:50. | |
Hunt has miscalculated and that there will be an upsurge of concern | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
for doctors. This is high while politics. -- high wire politics. | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
Joining me is Dr Johann Malawana, an obstetrics and gynaecology trainee, | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
and chair of the British Medical Association's junior doctors | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
What is your reaction to what Jeremy Hunt has outlined? Well, instead of | :02:08. | :02:19. | |
talking to us and putting the proposals to the junior doctors | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
committee of the BMA, Jeremy Hunt has gone for headlines and released | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
the information in this way. What we keep saying is instead of going for | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
the headline figures, let's look at the detail and work out what is a | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
safe contract for doctors in this country. Safety for doctors | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
translates into safety for patients. If doctors are working in safe | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
practices, they make decisions not when they are tired, and therefore | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
they are safer for patients. On the issue of how he went about it, he | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
was questioned that this morning and he said it was the right thing to do | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
the BMA would not enter into negotiations and there was no other | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
way. We have been clear, we want to see meaningful negotiations. We are | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
very clear that the only way of achieving a solution that we all | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
know needs to happen for the NHS is we have meaningful negotiation, the | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
government takes away the threat of imposition and actually talks to us | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
about how we solve the problems for the next generation. Hasn't he | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
effectively done that this morning by saying, this is out there, we are | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
still willing to negotiate? The style he has approached this says a | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
lot about his thinking. Instead of talking to us, he has put out a | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
headline grabbing figure and attacked me and the BMA and doctors | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
in this country. Is it enough to get the BMA back to the table? We are | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
now working furiously to unpick what he has proposed, because it is a new | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
proposal he has put out. Every week, we see a proposal and a headline | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
that the government has put out. Every week, when we get into the | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
detail, the whole thing unravels. We have had this problem for weeks and | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
months. The government keeps putting out headlines rather than dealing | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
with us in a professional way the way doctors up and down the country | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
want. We are not politicians, we don't do megaphone politics across | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
the dispatch box. We just want to be engaged professionally. So will the | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
ballot go-ahead? We will spend today looking at the detail. So it might | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
not? If the proposal is amply a rehash of what has happened before, | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
then the course of action is clear. -- simply a rehash. We have tried to | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
work with Jeremy Hunt and the Department of Health to achieve a | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
goal that we all say we want, a safe NHS that is there | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
goal that we all say we want, a safe doctors. He says there are material | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
differences in what is offered. He points to the pay increase on the | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
table and the changes in hours that will be classified as overtime. So | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
it looks like there has been some compromise on that. Also a guarantee | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
of an absolute limit of 72 hours that junior doctors would have to | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
work in any week, which is lower than the current 91. On the face of | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
it, it sounds like there is movement. If that is as it seems, | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
would it be enough? We really want to see safeguards on the hours. We | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
have had experience over decades of looking at junior doctors' working | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
patterns, and we know if there are not proper safeguards in place, | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
trusts overworked junior doctors. Why not just go back to the table | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
and carry on negotiations? We have been going through the process for | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
two years and the government were intransigent about the position. But | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
he says he is frustrated that the BMA won't negotiate? It is not just | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
a negotiation to sit around a table, it has to be meaningful. You cannot | :05:50. | :05:51. | |
negotiate it has to be meaningful. You cannot | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
threatening you it has to be meaningful. You cannot | :05:55. | :05:55. | |
of measures before you can it has to be meaningful. You cannot | :05:56. | :06:04. | |
figure, this is not an 11% pay rise by any | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
figure, this is not an 11% pay rise What he is saying, looking at the | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
figure, this is not an 11% pay rise area to another. That says a lot. | :06:13. | :06:13. | |
Instead of being area to another. That says a lot. | :06:14. | :06:22. | |
true, if you are area to another. That says a lot. | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
from one area to another. That says a lot. | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
clear, you're going to look at the proposals carefully today and you | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
will decide definitively by the end of today if the ballot will go ahead | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
or be called off? Essentially, if what is in the proposal is simply | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
what we have had before, it's very clear that we have a course of | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
action, and junior doctors up and down the country are absolutely so | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
upset about what is going on and how they are being treated. Doctors up | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
and down the country are focused on making sure we have a safe NHS for | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
patients and doctors, and that is our key focus, always the safety of | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
patients. Thank you very much. The victims and witnesses | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
of crime often suffer a huge amount of avoidable frustration | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
and distress because they are not adequately supported during | :07:08. | :07:09. | |
the most serious criminal trials. That's the claim from the | :07:10. | :07:11. | |
Criminal Justice Alliance, which is a coalition of 90 organisations | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
involved in policy and practice The report found that | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
the court experience is alienating and chaotic for victims, | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
witnesses and defendants alike. We're joined now by Clive Coleman, | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
our legal affairs guru. Tell us about what is being claimed. | :07:28. | :07:42. | |
The clue is in the title, Structured Mayhem, Personal Experiences Of The | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
Crown Court. It makes a number of findings. It says the language used | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
is old-fashioned, it is elaborate, ritualised and alienating for | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
people. It says the wigs and gowns worn by barristers and judges create | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
a sense of otherworldliness. Whilst that preserves the all of the Crown | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Court, it also alienates victims and witnesses. -- the aura. It talks | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
about the process being chaotic, delays and frustrations. Bringing a | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
large cast of characters together over the requisite period of time, | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
together with documents, evidence, video recording and physical exits | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
is a challenging task video recording and physical exits | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
often does go wrong. It is a provocative report and | :08:30. | :08:31. | |
often does go wrong. It is a pretending the Crown Court is | :08:32. | :08:33. | |
running perfectly pretending the Crown Court is | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
smoothly. What I should say about the report, the sample is pretty | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
small. They talked to 90 adult court users, some professionals in the | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
system, and they observed 200 hours of court time. Every year in England | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
and Wales, thousands of defendants are tried. That gives you an idea of | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
the size of the sample. There is already a huge amount being done to | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
try and address a number of these issues. Initiatives such as a | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
Management scheme which is designed to get earlier hearings in cases in | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
the Crown Court so everyone gets their ducks in a row, you know what | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
the evidence is and which witnesses are going to be called, which will | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
need special attention, such as giving their evidence by way of | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
video link. There is also a system called Digital case management, | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
which is designed to ensure that you do not have a morass of documents | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
flying around, you have everything in an electronic case file that the | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
barristers and the judge can access through secure e-mail and secure | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
Wi-Fi. So there is a lot of work being done. A lot of people working | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
within the system will say, yes, they are trying very hard but they | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
need resources. The Crown Prosecution Service, which is the | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
gatekeeper for a lot of this evidence that gets the whole thing | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
going, has suffered some pretty savage cuts in terms of its | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
resources in recent times. Thank you, Clive. | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
We can speak now to Zoe Dronfield, who in 2014 was kicked in the head | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
and stabbed by her on-off boyfriend in what the judge later | :10:07. | :10:08. | |
He was jailed for 14 years in March this year. | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
Also here with us is Kirsty Brimelow QC, who's a criminal barrister. | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Thank you both for joining us. Zoe, as we heard, you were involved in a | :10:17. | :10:24. | |
court hearing as a witness and a victim. How did you feel about the | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
court proceedings? Well, it took a long time to get to court, over a | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
year and a half. My life was put on hold while I waited for that | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
process. A longer time waiting for it to get to court, the | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
communication was very slim. -- along the time. I wasn't updated, I | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
would find things out late. Your life is put on hold. What could have | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
been done differently? Communication. There was a severe | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
lack of good indication between the various agencies that deal with you. | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
The CPS, the police. -- a severe lack of communication. They are | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
meant to update you on what is going on. Kirsty, do you think this is a | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
fair assessment of what is going on? As Clive said, it is a small sample. | :11:17. | :11:25. | |
In 2014, there were 127,000 defendants in the Crown Court. | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
Unfortunately, the authors of the report seemed to have a | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
misconception about the justice system in this country, in that it | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
is adversarial. They seemed to expect it to be more of an | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
inquisitorial system. That comes through in the report, so there are | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
a number of inaccuracies. However I completely accept what they are | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
saying, that there should be the communication and care for | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
witnesses. But the difficulty is when there is a government that is | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
constantly cutting, so on one day there will be an usher and a clog in | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
a court, and the next day there is one person doing both jobs... -- a | :12:04. | :12:14. | |
clog. -- a clerk. When Zoe says communication would have made her | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
life better, that is not difficult to achieve, is it? Well, it all | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
needs financing. There is a witness service system, a witness care | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
system. One of them is staffed entirely by volunteers. And they do | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
their best. The government doesn't even think it's sufficiently | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
important to pay those people. And I have found from my own experience in | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
the Crown Court system that it's just getting on its knees now, we | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
are getting examples like this with a huge delay of accessing the | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
court... You also have the position where the paid for barristers, you | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
have seen on two occasions, a profession, really, which is deeply | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
conservative, has actually been on strike. Saying that barristers | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
cannot afford to do this work any more. And they are part of the | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
system that is keeping it going. One thing from the report, although it | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
observed some chaos, it did say that it all moves forward, but that is | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
only because the lawyers and the judges work all hours to ensure it | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
keeps going. I wish those problems were addressed. Some breaking news | :13:25. | :13:33. | |
we are getting, the NHS Trust which ran Stafford Hospital has pleaded | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
guilty at Stafford Magistrates' Court to health and safety breaches | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
relating to the deaths of four elderly patients in its care. The | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
NHS Trust that Rand Stafford Hospital has pleaded guilty to | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
breaches relating to the deaths of four elderly patients. -- that Rand. | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
Back to the issue of how people are treated within the court system, did | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
you feel when you were part of the trial that you knew what was going | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
on? No, absolutely not. A real lack of empathy from the staff within the | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
court settings. You are not told anything because you are part of the | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
evidence. You are not able to have a conversation with the prosecuting | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
barrister. They say hello and wander off. You are a bit bemused and it is | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
daunting. It is like walking into a different world, the wooden | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
benches, the wigs that they wear and everything. Did you feel in the end | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
that your voice was heard and justice was done? Were you happy | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
with the outcome in the end? I felt justice was done but I have no idea | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
if my voice was heard because I had special measures, I wasn't able to | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
get any feedback from the court case, I just knew the sentence, | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
that's it. Then it is, you have the sentence details, off you go and | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
carry on with your life. I have no idea because I was not able to | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
listen to the trial and know what was going on. Is that something you | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
can see is an issue, that there is an obvious solution to? Probably to | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
have an understanding about the process. I didn't have an | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
understanding, we were discussing that before... Not understanding | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
what is happening next, being thrown into this whole different world, | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
this is what is happening... From moment to moment, you are pillar to | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
post and you don't really understand. We were chatting before | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
we came on about Zoe's experiences. It is an experience which | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
undoubtedly is not unique to her. As to what can improve, you need better | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
communication, you need somebody explaining to you what goes on. That | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
there are parts of the hearing where you, as a witness, will not be in | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
court because of the rules of evidence which are there to ensure a | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
fair trial. Probably that could be done in advance of the trial so you | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
would be much more prepared and your expectations would be managed | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
better. But it comes down to resources. Who is going to do this? | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
There is no funding available. There are more cuts. I am very proud of | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
the Criminal Justice System in this country. I think it does work well, | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
it obviously has its faults, but it is so dispiriting to see what is | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
happening. Zoe's experience is going to become more and more intense and | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
widespread. Because there is no one there to assist. Obviously it is not | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
nice for the victims or the witnesses to feel like they are in | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
the dark, but in the end, does it have any impact on whether justice | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
is done and should people have faith over all in the system? | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
I want Zoe to feel, at the end, that can fend defended was convicted, | :16:53. | :17:01. | |
serious case, he had a lengthy period of imprisonment. -- at the | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
end, the defendant was convicted. I would like her to feel more | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
favourable towards the court system, she is not, she did not feel happy | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
about it, there is a lot that must be changed. There is straightforward | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
changes that can be made but it needs funding to get more bodies in | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
place, to assist witnesses and explain what is going on much | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
better. Obviously things can be done. In terms of barristers, one | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
thing that I would say, the council has been working hard to train | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
barristers, so that we are much more empathetic, in terms of dealing with | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
people who are vulnerable, special measures are there which seem to be | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
working well. Do barristers not necessarily see everyone as humans | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
in the system? There has been terrible example is of cases, | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
particularly with sex cases, where barristers have paved appallingly. | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
Thankfully this is 20 years ago. What I wish would happen in terms of | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
a report, it would acknowledge the progress that has been made and the | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
changes that have been made, so that Zoe, for example, could have special | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
measures, so that she is not physically in the courtroom, so it | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
is done down a link. I was in the court, behind a screen. You can do | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
it through a link, so that is an option, or behind screens. The | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
it through a link, so that is an is that it achieves better | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
protection, so that it is a bit better. There needs to be more. I | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
wish we had the government behind the criminal justice system making | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
it better. The whole process makes the victim feel like they are on | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
trial, that is what must change. You will get that to an extent with this | :18:46. | :18:47. | |
adversarial system, that is the will get that to an extent with this | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
difficulty, you will not feel like you being believed. That is going to | :18:52. | :18:53. | |
be quite you being believed. That is going to | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
can be more communication. If you you being believed. That is going to | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
are put in a situation where you are in the same room, with the offender, | :19:02. | :19:03. | |
asked in the same way in the same room, with the offender, | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
offender, you feel like you are on trial, it is the same process | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
happening to them. There are other things that | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
happening to them. There are other could go on for | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
happening to them. There are other very much coming in, the | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
Breaking needs to bring you about the Crown Prosecution Service being | :19:28. | :19:48. | |
fined ?200,000, by the data protection watchdog, the information | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
Commissioner's office, over the theft of laptops containing videos | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
of police interviews linked to 31 investigations, many of them | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
involving sex and violent offences. ?200,000 fine for the CPS from the | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
information Commissioner 's office over the theft of those laptops. | :20:05. | :20:23. | |
They proceeded to ballot for industrial action that starts | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
tomorrow, so I thought that the only responsible thing to do is to | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
publish what the offer is today, when it is clear that they are not | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
interested in any sort of negotiation. There is a new pay | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
offer for junior doctors, Jeremy Hunt has promised an 11% rise | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
offer for junior doctors, Jeremy with cuts to extra payments for | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
unsociable hours, the British Medical Association is due to ballot | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
industrial action tomorrow, junior doctors have told this programme | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
that they are not happy with the new proposal. Jeremy Hunt says he's to | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
negotiate. Scathing criticism | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
of the tax office by MPs says And the Public Accounts Committee | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
warns that prosecutions of offshore tax evaders are | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
'woefully inadequate'. revive its women's fashion range | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
failed to attract enough shoppers. Clothing accounts for about 40% | :21:14. | :21:15. | |
of sales. And the widow of Robin Williams | :21:16. | :21:17. | |
has spoken publicly for the first The actor took his own life | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
last August, leading many to Susan Williams told Good Morning | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
America her husband had been It was the dementia that killed him, | :21:30. | :21:43. | |
it is what took his life, and that is what I have tried to spend the | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
last year getting to the bottom of. There is new is in sport of a | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
trailblazer deciding to retire. Susie Wolff is retiring from | :21:52. | :22:00. | |
motorsport, she was the first woman to take part in a Formula 1 Grand | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
Prix for more than 20 years, but the Williams test driver feels her dream | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
of reaching the starting grid was beyond her, she insists it was | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
not due to her being a woman. Cricket, | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
day four of the third and final test between England and Pakistan under | :22:19. | :22:20. | |
way, England started well taking an early wicket, Mohammad Hafeez has | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
taken charge. First half goals from Raheem | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
Sterling, Fernandinho and Wilfried Bony secured a victory for | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
Manchester City over their Spanish opponents Seville, 3-1. They are | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
through to the next round of the Champions League. Wayne Rooney with | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
a late header gave Manchester United a win at Old Trafford over CSKA | :22:47. | :22:48. | |
Moscow in the Champions League. So the tax office is under fire from | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
MPs, they accuse it of failing to tackle evasion by the wealthy and | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
offering such bad customer service The Public Accounts Committee said | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs answered only half | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
of all calls made and only 39% of them within | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
five minutes. Only half the calls being answered. | :23:10. | :23:25. | |
We have had examples of people who have listened to the phone saying, | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
hold on, your call is important to us, 300 times, and still have not | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
got through. That basically... The committee says is a system where | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
people who are trying to pay their tax are being discouraged from | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
getting in touch with the tax collectors. On top of that, wealthy | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
individuals who are hiding money overseas, simply are not being | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
prosecuted. HMRC has prosecuted only 11 people in the last five years for | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
hiding money overseas. They have even been given a list of 3600 | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
people with private bank accounts in Switzerland that they did not know | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
about and they have prosecuted one person. What has been said in | :24:03. | :24:11. | |
response from HMRC? They say they are collecting a record amount of | :24:12. | :24:13. | |
tax and they say they are disappointed that the record results | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
have been overlooked, and they continue: | :24:17. | :24:29. | |
This morning you've been getting in touch about this story, | :24:30. | :24:31. | |
here are just some of the many messages we've received today. | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
Tanya from Wiltshire has been in touch: | :24:35. | :24:35. | |
"I spent over an hour and a half on hold. | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
When I did get through, he was extremely brash and put me | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
"My personal experience with the HMRC Customer Service Line | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
Mr P Wells from Sudbury e-mailed to say: | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
and waited 45 minutes for an answer." | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
And Andrew Vaton from Milton Keynes who runs a small business got in | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
"If I have any queries involving tax issues I'd have to | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
take the morning off now to wait until someone answers the phone!" | :25:00. | :25:01. | |
Please do keep your stories coming in. | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
Is anything going to change? There is 3000 extra staff, but that is not | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
going to persuade the committee that they have done enough, two years ago | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
they looked at this and they thought that customer service levels were | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
abysmal, now they say they have got even worse and they are a threat to | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
the tax collection system, that is how bad they are judged to be. Keep | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
getting in touch with that and everything else we are talking | :25:32. | :25:32. | |
about. An Indonesian court has convicted | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
two British journalists accused of violating the country's | :25:36. | :25:37. | |
immigration laws. Neil Bonner and Rebecca Prosser have | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
been sentenced to two and a half months in jail and | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
received a fine of around ?1,600. The journalists were making a film | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
about piracy for a London-based production company when they were | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
arrested by the Indonesian navy. They've been imprisoned since May | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
of this year so with the time already served they | :25:55. | :25:56. | |
could be free within days. who's Rebecca's sister | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
and is in Indonesia. Thank you the joining us, you were | :26:00. | :26:08. | |
in court yesterday to see your sister sentenced, what was it like? | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
Really nervous. You may know that the charge against them carries a | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
maximum sentence of up to five years, and so obviously, we were | :26:21. | :26:22. | |
very worried about the outcome of the hearing. And so when the | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
translator told me that they had been given two and a half months, | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
and knowing they had already served that time, it was an enormous | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
relief. I burst into tears. There and then. It was a very emotional | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
day. Becky and kneel as well, extremely relieved, they have had | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
this hanging over their heads for more than five months. And so it was | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
an extremely emotional day for all of us. Are you expecting now that | :26:53. | :27:02. | |
she could be out, we're waiting to hear from the prosecutor 's office. | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
We're hoping that we will hear today. Their sentence expires | :27:08. | :27:16. | |
tomorrow. If an appeal is not large they should be released from prison | :27:17. | :27:18. | |
tomorrow, although they will still be held in immigration detention | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
while their case is processed. We are not quite out of the woods yet | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
but we really hope that the prosecutors do not decide to appeal | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
the sentence. How is Rebecca coping with all of this? I saw her on | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
Sunday, just before the trial, both her and kneel were really anxious. | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
Rebecca has been incredibly strong, through this whole process, I am so | :27:48. | :27:55. | |
proud of her. Sorry... Today she was very relieved, she still has the | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
prospect of a possible appeal, they have that in mind. She has made some | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
good friends among the other prisoners. A lot of what she has | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
talked about today was worrying about what will happen to them in | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
the future more than herself, really. Obviously this is an | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
emotional time for all of you, how difficult has it been to watch your | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
sister going through this? It has been every ordeal for the whole | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
family. Having my sister 7000 miles away from home... It has taken a | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
real toll on my mother and father and Neil Warnock riposte mother and | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
father as well. This is my second trip out here, I came out the first | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
time when I was first moved to prison, that was the first time I | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
had seen person she had been detained. For us, it has been | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
nothing short of a nightmare. And we are now just hoping that the | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
nightmare is going to be over within the next few days. Do you think this | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
experience will have fundamentally changed your sister in the end? If | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
anything I think it will make her stronger, I have been very impressed | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
with her compassion. She is a film-maker, she likes to tell people | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
stories, and I think that she has had a real exposure to some very | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
heartbreaking stories through this process, and if anything, I think it | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
will inspire her, not deter her. Stay in touch and let us know what | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
happens tomorrow, thank you very much for joining us. | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
Lyme disease is a bacterial infection that's spread | :29:42. | :29:43. | |
It's estimated that up to 3,000 new cases of the disease are diagnosed | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
Symptoms can include a distinctive rash, tiredness, | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
The disease can be treated effectively if it's recognised early | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
on, but diagnosis is difficult because so many | :29:55. | :29:56. | |
of the symptoms are similar to other conditions such as chronic fatigue. | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
Nicola Beckford went to meet two women to find out what it's | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
VOICEOVER: Lyme disease can be a debilitating illness with symptoms | :30:03. | :30:22. | |
including chronic fatigue, fevers and heart problems, anyone can get | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
it but how easy is it to get a diagnosis? | :30:27. | :30:37. | |
The NHS estimates there is up to 3000 cases of the disease in England | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
and Wales each year, about 15% of cases are contracted overseas. It is | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
and Wales each year, about 15% of spread to humans by a bite from an | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
infected tick. They live in woodland as well as city parks and gardens. | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
It can be treated with antibiotics if caught early but if treatment is | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
delayed or the disease is misdiagnosed, it can lead to serious | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
long-term problems. There is controversy over what is known as | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
chronic Lyme disease, these patients have the sentence of Lyme disease | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
but have normal blood tests. Public Health England says that it is | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
difficult to say whether these patients definitely have the | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
disease. Many other infections can trigger identical symptoms. Jessica | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
tested positive on the NHS. It took her seven years to get an NHS | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
diagnosis. Before I had Lyme disease, I worked | :31:29. | :31:40. | |
in the fitness industry and I interchange that with my equestrian | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
career. I was very ambitious and driven and I wanted to travel the | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
world, so I dipped in and out of both careers. I was in peak physical | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
shape, I would run marathons, a keen runner at the time. At the time I | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
was working on a contract in Germany and I had been there for about 12 | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
months. When did you start to feel ill? I started to feel really, | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
really tired. Flu like. I thought I was coming down with something and | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
didn't really think much of it. Then I started to get severe migraines, | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
really searing headaches, they were stroke like migraines, so I would | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
lose my speech. I wouldn't be able to communicate with people. It was | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
quite frightening at the time. I just thought I had been doing too | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
much. And then out of nowhere, probably four months after the | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
initial bite, I had really terrible depression. Nobody was connecting | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
the dots, and I wasn't connecting the dots, because Lyme disease | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
wasn't something I had ever heard of. I was researching night and day | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
from my bed, I stumbled across Lyme disease, started to look into it and | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
I knew, I just knew as soon as I started reading it, I thought I'm | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
pretty sure it was what I had. You used to be superwoman. Wonder | :33:05. | :33:31. | |
Woman! So when you look back at those photos... I can't. I'm | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
heartbroken. I am. I went through a phase... I had to | :33:36. | :33:48. | |
deactivate my social media, because I felt this responsibility to all | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
the people that followed me to be this inspirational person. And | :33:53. | :34:01. | |
behind closed doors, I was just so unwell. Looking back through my | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
photos and stuff, I just feel devastated. Devastated, because this | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
isn't the life I wanted for myself at all. I felt like I have the world | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
at my feet. I had just taken some professional athletes onto my books | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
as a sports nutritionist. I was so excited about my future. I really | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
was. I always thought I was destined to do stuff with my life, and having | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
it all taken away like that, now knowing it was because of an insect | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
bite, it's hard to comprehend. The doctors I have come into contact | :34:38. | :34:49. | |
with, they just don't listen, they don't see what's in front of them. | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
They just assume they know what's right. And maybe they do a lot of | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
the time, but I don't think I was listened to at all. The test that I | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
have is a private test from America. And they don't accept it. I was | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
negative on the NHS test. It is hard to talk about. I try not | :35:11. | :35:28. | |
to think about it too much. Because the thought that it would be like | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
this for ever scares me sometimes. So I just take my pills and I stick | :35:38. | :35:45. | |
to my diet. Just hope that each day is better... | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
Just the fact that we don't get any support in this country from | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
doctors, just anyone... It shouldn't be this way. One day you will feel | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
relatively normal and you will be able to do kind of normal things, | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
and then the next day you won't be able to get out of bed. Could you | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
not get help on the NHS? No. Did you go to the NHS? We did, but the test | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
I have is a private test from America and they don't accept it. | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
And I was negative on the NHS test, because their testing is not | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
sensitive enough. So they didn't pick up the infection. My parents | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
have paid taxes for a long period, and we have spent ?100,000 on | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
medical bills. It's not right. Public Health England advises the | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
government and the NHS on health matters. Their laboratories at | :36:48. | :36:55. | |
Porton down test patients for Lyme disease among other things. I don't | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
think there is enough knowledge about Lyme disease. We know it has | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
spread, the cases have increased, we have had confirmed cases from | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
virtually every corner of the United Kingdom. There are a lot of | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
frustrated, ill patients who feel they have had a rum deal. Going | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
abroad and spending a lot of money often is not the answer, because a | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
lot of the treatments are not evidence -based. There will be a lot | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
of people who think they have Lyme disease, they have gone abroad and | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
they will be listening to you and saying, I don't buy it. What would | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
you say to them? Patients with confirmed Lyme disease get better | :37:36. | :37:46. | |
usually on short-course antibiotics. Patients with chronic symptoms | :37:47. | :37:48. | |
nobody really understands the pathology behind it. But it's not | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
believe that long-term antibiotics help in those situations. Early in | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
the disease, the test is going to be negative. In certain other | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
conditions, the test may be negative as well. I think we need a better | :38:02. | :38:09. | |
test to predict active in -- infection. Public Health England are | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
currently talking to foreign clinics and looking at alternative research | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
techniques for diagnosing Lyme disease. They say that GPs should | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
take all patient symptoms into account and not just treat them on | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
the basis of a single test. But in the meantime, patients like Jess and | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
Hayley fear that many more cases could go undetected. Nicola on | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
Facebook says she has been suffering it for years and that doctors keep | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
sending her away. Joanne: doctors need to have open minds and | :38:41. | :39:01. | |
consider empirical treatments. Trevor on Facebook says, very | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
worrying, like all dog owners, I check my pet for ticks and flees | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
every day but until recent articles I was not aware that my family and I | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
were at risk. More detail on the news about the NHS Trust that ran | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
Stafford Hospital pleading guilty to significant health and safety | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
breaches connected to the deaths of four elderly patients in its care. | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
Stafford 's magistrate court has heard this morning that three of the | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
deaths occurred after false, while another happened after a patient was | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
given penicillin despite hospital staff being told she was allergic. | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
-- after falls. They pleaded guilty to four offences through its | :39:45. | :39:46. | |
solicitor and will | :39:47. | :39:47. |