Browse content similar to 20/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme. | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
Stopping jihadists from crossing the continent - emergency talks are | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
being held as France says it's time for other European countries to wake | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
We hear from the Parisians who say they now need time to mourn. | :00:16. | :00:23. | |
I don't know how to live without being afraid of going out. | :00:24. | :00:31. | |
I'm feeling a little bit better, but it was really, | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
He just wanted to play football but was trafficked into prostitution. | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
A former Premier League player tells us how he was duped. | :00:44. | :00:52. | |
Because I was young and I was, like, small, so I was just screaming. | :00:53. | :01:02. | |
Yeah, I know what I'm here. I know what I came over here for. They | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
brought me here to play football. Adele's 25 is expected to be | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
the best selling album of the year - why you won't be able to listen to | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
it on music streaming services. Welcome to the programme, | :01:12. | :01:21. | |
we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News As you'll know by now, | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
your contributions to this programme are really welcome throughout | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
the morning. Texts will be charged | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria, and you can also subscribe to all | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
our features on the news app by going to add topics | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
and searching Victoria Derbyshire. A week on from the terror attacks | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
in Paris, France's Interior Minister says Europe must wake up to | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
terror threats. The Home Secretary, Theresa May, is | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
joining her counterparts in Brussels today to discuss security measures - | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
including moves to strengthen checks at external borders - after it | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
emerged that some of those behind the attacks entered France | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
undetected. Investigators are still looking for a key suspect, | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
Salah Abdeslam, who escaped after The suspected ringleader, Abdelhamid | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
Abaaoud, was killed in a raid It seems he was twice able to travel | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
into and through the EU from Syria, despite being the subject | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
of European Since the attacks on Paris | :02:29. | :02:29. | |
the city has been in a state of Across the French capital, | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
people have been taking part in vigils to commemorate those who | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
lost their lives. Some Parisians spoke to us about how | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
they feel people there are coping I don't know how to live without | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
being afraid of going out But also I feel very happy that | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
everyone seems to be so touched. I am feeling a little bit better | :02:55. | :03:04. | |
but it was really, Now we can feel that the people | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
are more calm and is now they are I am an au pair so I take care | :03:13. | :03:23. | |
of children and trying to be positive and supportive around them | :03:24. | :03:36. | |
when they understand to some degree Paris is known for a little bit | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
of a stressful city and people are But now it feels like it is not the | :03:40. | :04:18. | |
same, it is changing a little bit. People are sad and scared, | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
they don't say it but we can feel You can feel the mood | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
a little bit different. And they are angry, too, | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
but Paris will always be Paris. It has been amazingly resilient | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
in a way. It feels like heavy-hearted | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
but still people are moving forward and stuff and being as positive I | :04:48. | :04:49. | |
think as they can be. But it is understandable | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
because the world wants to know what Let's bring you some breaking news | :04:55. | :05:46. | |
from Mali. We are getting reports that Islamist gunmen have attacked a | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
hotel in the capital, Bamako. Automatic weapons have fire has been | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
heard inside the building. There are reports of hostages. The security | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
forces have cordoned off the area. Mali has been plagued by an security | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
since Islamist groups seized control of the North to years ago and | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
attempted to take over the country. They were blocked by the | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
intervention of French troops. We will keep you across the latest | :06:12. | :06:22. | |
reports. We hear that potentially 170 people have been taken hostage | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
in that hotel, around 30 members of staff and around 140 guests. Those | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
are the official reports. It is reportedly a hotel popular with | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
expats living and working in Mali. That is the latest as we have it, we | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
will keep you updated as we get more details. | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
Meanwhile, some Muslims living in the UK say they've experienced | :06:40. | :06:41. | |
more physical or verbal abuse since the Paris attacks. | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
Tell MAMA - a group which records anti-Muslim incidents says | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
the number of reports they receive has DOUBLED in the last week. | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
Humaira Mayet is a student in East London. | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
She says there's been increased hostility in the last week - a view | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
They are both here with me. Thank you for coming in. Tell us what you | :06:56. | :07:10. | |
have experienced, Humaira? I found that, on the Chu, you get a lot of | :07:11. | :07:25. | |
suspicious looks. -- on the Tube. I have not experienced physical | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
assaults or outward verbal abuse, but of a train stops in the middle | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
of a tunnel and the driver doesn't notify passengers immediately, you | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
start getting aggressive looks thrown at you. Are you sure that | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
is... And intentional thing that is being directed towards you? This | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
didn't use to happen before, I felt very comfortable travelling on | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
public transport before. Now I definitely feel that there is a | :07:52. | :07:59. | |
suspicion. I know there has been an increase in the number of British | :08:00. | :08:01. | |
Transport Police officers at stations. Whenever I walk past them, | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
I suck in my breath and I am worried that I am going to get... Going to | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
get questioned and searched. I shouldn't have too feel like that if | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
I am in -- if I am innocent, I should be able to feel innocent in | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
my own city. How does it make you feel when people look at you? Like | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
an outsider, like I am being vilified for a crime that I didn't | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
commit. What about you, Ayesha? Eyewitnesses airily echoed those | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
views. I think, on a personal level, I haven't experienced any | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
hostility, per se. I think there might be some apprehension, which is | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
normal and natural. In fact, some family members who have been in | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
central London, near Kingston, recently, they felt that people were | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
trying to be nice to them. I think, as a community, we need to remember | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
that we have human values that everyone celebrates. I think when | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
traumas like this emerge, we get so embroiled in the finger-pointing but | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
we forget to ask, why are we here? We need to keep that larger | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
perspective in mind. The vital question is that Islamic extremism | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
didn't rise in isolation. It has been, in large part, a product of | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
our governments' policies and the way we have engaged in the Middle | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
East. Moving forward, I think we need to rethink that engagement. | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
Isis, which has been blamed for these attacks, it is largely | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
documented that it has been a product of the Iraq war. When that | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
argument is put forward, some people will say, that is making excuses for | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
the actions of a group like Isis? I don't think it is making excuses, I | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
think it is trying to delineate the situation. It is like giving two | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
children or two toddlers guns. Isis, or extremists, do something. | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
The day after the Paris attacks we heard that France was launching air | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
strikes in Syria. That might be a popular response, but it might not | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
be the most prudent. That is like giving two children guns. We are not | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
blaming anyone, we're not trying to get broiled in these wars. What | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
would you say the response should be to Isis? I think a biker issue is | :10:30. | :10:37. | |
how we move forward, how we deal with this. I think a key issue is | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
getting to the bottom of how these groups are actually funded. I think | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
that is a vital concern. I don't see that much in the media at all. Is | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
that not the sort of thing that governments are doing, and trying to | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
work alongside communities to stop people being recruited? I don't | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
think they are doing enough to cut the supply lines to terrorist | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
organisations. In Britain, we make a lot of money out of the oil-rich | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
Middle East, and we need to rethink our trading partners, maybe, and we | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
need to get to the bottom of how these terrorist groups are funded. I | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
sit in my personal capacity as the member of a minority group. We have | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
been in the UK for a long time. Similar to Isis, which I think is | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
interesting, Isis claims to have a caliphate and we also have a head of | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
the community, but he has been spreading the message of love, peace | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
and loyalty, he has been touring the world. He sits in England and gives | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
a Friday sermon every Friday and he talks of these crucial notions of | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
integrating into society peacefully. Does that need to be heard more | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
widely? I think so. That can play a bigger part in helping us to be | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
heard. Today, in a large mosque in Morden, there will be a special | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
service this afternoon being held for Paris. It is called United We | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
Stand, it is from 2pm to 3pm, just before Friday prayers. Members of | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
all faith communities have been invited. From the 23rd of November | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
we are planning to launch a campaign on London buses. It will play an | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
advert for two weeks called United Against Extremism. | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
And on Skype, Ameena Beake is from the Muslim Council of Britain | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
What Is Your Perspective On What Is Happening After Paris? Good Morning. | :12:40. | :12:52. | |
What has happened, and we wholly condemn all the violence in the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
world, and the thing that has happened in Paris is absolutely an | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
act of pure evil, and has absolutely nothing to do with Islam, or with | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
the 99.9% of Muslims who do live normal, peaceful Islamic lives. That | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
is the first point we need to make. I think the hostile reactions that a | :13:16. | :13:23. | |
fuel of the British public have made towards this offer lots of different | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
reasons. I think that Isis are extremely clever. They are playing | :13:30. | :13:38. | |
on our fear as, unfortunately, are certain sections of the media. What | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
happens is you have a situation whereby the British public are wound | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
up into a frenzy of fear, that will breed anger which will then breed | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
hostility, when things like this happen. By doing this we almost | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
playing into the hands of Isis and doing exactly what I want. Let's be | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
very clear, Isis hate anybody who doesn't buy into their sick | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
ideology. That is a fact. We have got to unite together as the British | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
public, regardless of whatever religion background we are from, and | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
work together against this. The main key to working together against this | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
is by creating peace between ourselves and our communities, | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
really pulling together in the time of crisis that we face. Humaira, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
what are your thoughts? You are sitting there feeling fearful, | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
people are looking at you feeling fearful. What is the way to cut | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
through? One thing that really irks me is the fact that people seem to | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
think that because I am a Muslim I am somehow immune to being a victim | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
of a terrorist attack. Isis Starr not discriminating when they are | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
killing people in the West. I'm not immune to that bonds or bullets. | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
They are killing eight -- killing indiscriminately, they want to kill | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
anyone who does not believe that ideology, that is most Muslims. I am | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
just as much at risk as anyone else is when it comes to a terrorist | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
attack. Ameena? The sister is very right. We are all facing this | :15:16. | :15:23. | |
negativity, and this almost threat. It is threatening to divide our | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
society. What we need to look at is the logical side inside all of us, | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
and that, you know, Muslims have been living in Britain and the West | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
for a couple of hundred years now. We have not had any problems. | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
Neighbours are living peacefully amongst each other. We will exchange | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
gifts on Christmas and their TE Durcan is all the rest. We had to | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
keep it that way and almost intensified this -- exchange gifts | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
at Christmas and at Eid. The other lady was talking about the political | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
side. The politic may have a part to play, but as a community we need to | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
maybe put the politics on one side, on the grassroots level, and | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
concentrate on the British values that we hold so dear, which is | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
pulling together, supporting one another and trying to pull through | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
this very difficult time. What is the best way to do that? | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
I think communities really need to pull together socially, communities | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
need to not be looking at each other with any kind of suspicion. It is | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
very, very difficult to do, I think the media can help a huge amount in | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
this, bringing people together, such as this programme today is doing. | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
And making people understand may be that people who have not met Muslims | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
in the past and do not have any connection with Muslims, to | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
understand that Muslims are just normal people, we go about our | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
normal business in the UK, you know, we have jobs, we have kids and all | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
the rest of it. And we are active members of our society, just like | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
other people are too. Really good to talk to you all this morning, thank | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
you very much, and do let us know your thoughts, you know the usual | :17:13. | :17:13. | |
ways of getting in touch. There are reports that gunmen have | :17:14. | :17:23. | |
attacked the Radisson Blu hotel in Mali and are holding scores of | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
hostages. Automatic weapons fire has been heard coming from the hotel in | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
Bamako. It is understood security forces have set up a cordon and | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
reports of 170 hostages inside that hotel. Mali has been plagued by | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
insecurity since Islamist groups seized control of the North two | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
years ago and attempt to take over the country. They were blocked by | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
the intervention of French troops. We have received a statement from | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
the hotel group which owns and operates the Radisson Blu in Bamako | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
in Mali. It says, the group is aware of the hostagetaking that is ongoing | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
at the property today, and according to its information, two people are | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
blocked in 140 guests and 30 employees. There is no confirmation | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
of any gunfire or any injuries or deaths so far, we will keep you | :18:17. | :18:17. | |
updated. Theresa May has joined counterparts | :18:18. | :18:27. | |
in Brussels to discuss toughening up European security and border | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
controls following evidence that some of the terrorists entered | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
France and detected or posing as Syrian refugees. Senior police | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
chiefs say more budget cuts could affect the UK's ability to respond | :18:40. | :18:41. | |
to an attack like Paris. A 28-year-old man is due to appear | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
in court in Leicester today charged with murdering the teenager | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
Kayleigh Haywood. Stephen Beadman has been charged | :18:50. | :18:51. | |
with murder and one count of rape. The body was discovered on | :18:52. | :19:03. | |
Wednesday. A group of MPs is calling for the criminal courts charge of up | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
to ?1200, which is paid by defendants who are convicted, to be | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
scrapped. Those who plead guilty at the start pay less. The MPs fear it | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
encourages people to plead guilty regardless to avoid the risk of | :19:17. | :19:17. | |
higher payments. In sport, England look set to | :19:18. | :19:19. | |
appoint their first foreign head coach, as Eddie Jones steps closer | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
to the top job in English rugby. The former South Africa and | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
Australia coach, who led Japan at the recent World Cup, was in London | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
yesterday putting the finishing Let's catch up with all the sport | :19:29. | :19:30. | |
now and join Hugh, of Stuart Lancaster's successor | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
as England rugby coach. Yes, the RFU have confirmed | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
their first ever foreign coach, it's the Australian Eddie Jones | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
who joins on a four-year deal RFU chief exec Ian Ritchie | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
wanted international experience - he's got that, | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
Jones was the losing coach when England won the World Cup | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
back in 2003. Most recently, he was in charge | :19:54. | :19:55. | |
of the Japan side which stunned South Africa | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
at the World Cup. Jones himself will be speaking | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
at a press conference later this afternoon, but in a statement | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
he says he feels fortunate to take on possibly | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
the world's most high-profile However, English rugby | :20:06. | :20:07. | |
must now ask itself why Jake White, Michael Chieka, | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
Warren Gatland, even Englishman Jim Mallinder were all so ready | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
to rule themselves out of the job. Do England have the players | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
to compete at the very elite level | :20:21. | :20:21. | |
of the sport? Is there something wrong with | :20:22. | :20:23. | |
the structure of English rugby? And in Eddie Jones, | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
are they getting the right man, or just someone different after | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
faith was lost in Stuart Lancaster? but Jones believes the future | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
is bright for England. We'll talk about that | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
in more detail just after ten, Thanks, see you later. Back to the | :20:37. | :20:50. | |
breaking news that we have been bringing you of a hotel in Mali, | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
where 170 people have been taken hostage, the Radisson Blu in Bamako, | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
and the group that owns the Radisson Blu hotel has confirmed that a | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
hostagetaking situation is ongoing there. You can see the image on your | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
screen now, where the hotel is, 140 guests, 30 employees locked in by | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
two people in that hostagetaking, according to the owners of the | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
hotel. Reuters are actually reporting that ten gunmen are | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
involved in this hostage situation. So clearly a fluid situation, | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
reports just coming through. We will obviously check out those latest | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
reports, but some discrepancy on the number of hostage-takers at the | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
hotel, ten being reported by Reuters now. The hotel is telling us, | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
though, that it cannot confirm that number. Also hearing via Reuters | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
that several Chinese guests are among those trapped in the hotel, | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
that is according to a Chinese news agency, Xinhua. A Chinese guest has | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
told journalists he is among a number of Chinese guests trapped in | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
the hotel. It is a hotel which is popular with expats working in | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
Mali. It is an area that has had difficulties, so it is not an area | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
popular with tourists, but this situation unfolding in that hotel, | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
that Radisson Blu in Bamako in Mali, with 170 hostages reported to be | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
locked into rooms by potentially up to ten hostage-takers, but we do not | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
have confirmation as yet the specific numbers involved. We're not | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
getting reports at this stage of gunshot or injuries, or any further | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
casualties, so we will, of course, check out the latest and keep you | :22:51. | :22:52. | |
updated. A former Premiership footballer | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
has told this programme by a man who tried to force him | :22:56. | :22:57. | |
into prostitution. Al Bangura, | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
who's from Sierra Leone, was 14 when a French man | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
offered to take him to the UK what happened when he arrived | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
in Britain. This is basically like | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
when I was young and my dad was at the head | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
of a secret society. So basically | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
when I get to the age of 14, that I need to join the secret | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
society than my dad was in too. I said to my mum, I don't think | :23:25. | :23:33. | |
this is something I want to get involved with, because basically, | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
I don't live in the village, and all my life is living | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
in the city. And you know what I'm doing, | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
I want to play football. And I'm going to school so I don't | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
want to get involved in that. I knew this French guy, | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
and he promised to help me. But not knowing that he had | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
another different intention, Well, to try to like... | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
get me into this sex trade thing. So we travelled from Guinea | :24:00. | :24:09. | |
to France, in France for like a day, and we | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
came over him with the Eurostar. And obviously | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
this is where it started. And we went to like a place, | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
a building, I was there for like an hour, | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
an hour and a half. So all of a sudden I saw two | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
or three guys come around me, Yeah, because I was young and I was | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
like small, I was just screaming. They probably thought | :24:34. | :24:41. | |
I know what I am here for. Obviously, I did not know | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
what I came over here for. Not knowing that he is | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
probably here to play football. So I was screaming, shouting, | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
crying, just like proper screaming. I was just cold, I was shaking, | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
and I was crying. And I did not even know what to do. | :24:57. | :25:08. | |
I was all over the place. that you had been brought over | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
here to be a male prostitute? No. I do not think I would | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
have ever tried to do that if I knew that is what I was going | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
to come over here for. It was really sad for me. | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
It is quite emotional saying it now. Me saying that now, | :25:24. | :25:33. | |
obviously I am happy that I get over here, | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
but it is just too sad for me. and I didn't really know | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
how to speak English. I was cold, I was scared, | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
and I was crying. I could not even know | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
where to start. I am thinking, "I think this is | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
the end of my life." But I managed to see | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
loads of black people and that. So I met this guy, | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
I think he was a Nigerian guy. "Listen, this is my situation, | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
I want you to help me". And he said, "I cannot really | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
help you, the only thing I can do is put you on a bus | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
and go and apply for asylum." And he bought me a bus pass | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
and put me on the bus and I went to the Home Office, | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
and I explained my story. I explained what happened to me | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
and everything. But they did not believe what I am | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
saying because I haven't got any ID, I haven't got anything | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
to prove to them that this is my situation | :26:31. | :26:32. | |
that I have been through. But they gave me some advice, | :26:33. | :26:34. | |
saying that the only way we can look at your case, or look after you, | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
is for you to apply for asylum. So I applied for asylum, | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
they put me into an accommodation while I was waiting | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
for my asylum to be solved. And all during this time all you | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
wanted to do was play football, all I wanted to do in my life | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
was just to play football. And for me personally, | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
football is my dream. That is what I always wanted to do, | :27:03. | :27:04. | |
to play football. But because I was 16 at that time | :27:05. | :27:12. | |
they could not even sent me back home or do anything to me so they | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
ended up giving me a two-year stay. I kind of forgot about what I had | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
been through in my life, because... It was sad for me, | :27:21. | :27:37. | |
but it ended up coming to like a good thing | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
in my life. I started meeting people, started | :27:41. | :27:42. | |
playing my football that I like. Started getting in touch | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
with people and all them things. And I got the opportunity | :27:46. | :27:47. | |
to join Watford when I was 16. And then things started | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
building up for me. How big do you think | :27:51. | :27:52. | |
this problem is? Do you think it is happening | :27:53. | :27:54. | |
to a lot of children, This, it is happening, | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
and think there are loads of vulnerable kids in Africa who want | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
to achieve what I have in my life. And their parents | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
really want to achieve what someone like me wanted | :28:05. | :28:06. | |
to achieve in my life. So I think there is loads | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
of honourable place that they will probably tell them, "Listen, | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
I want to help you play football." Some of them would not even | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
talk to their parents. Some of them, their parents | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
would use their last money to make sure they come over here | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
to play football and they end up | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
doing something else. So for me it is existing, and I just | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
think it is more important for me to have been through all them things | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
in my life and for me to say it, so that people out there know I have | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
been through that, I have survived. But what about the young kids | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
that are coming up? Are they going to survive, are they | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
going to be able to cope with that? So we really need to find a way | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
how to stop all of that. Let's talk now to Ed Hawkins, | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
a journalist who has spent the past two years | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
investigating the trafficking trade How rare is it for him to make it to | :28:54. | :29:13. | |
the Premier League? Extremely rare, probably one and several thousand to | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
have made it to a club and be given a contract. The numbers on this sort | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
of trade, the slave trade, if you like, is up to several thousand a | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
year. Since 2009, it has been 7000 two France alone, and very few of | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
those people make it. How many of them even get a trial? Very few | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
again, because the scam works where unscrupulous agents or Scouts will | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
say to a player, give me ?3000, ?4000, I will get you a trial at | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
PSG, Man City, wherever, and they were actually taken two France or | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
England, and the trial does not exist. The agent has gone missing, | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
they are siphoned off into drugs, prostitution, other sorts of crime. | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
How much is known about this problem and the scale of it? It is still saw | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
that in its infancy, because no-one is really getting a handle on it. -- | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
sort of. Fifa have paid lip service to it, there is a charity which | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
exists to help out these young players and try to stamp out the | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
issue that I've found in my investigation, a charity that does | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
not appear to do what they say they do, no-one really knows what they | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
do. So no-one is really tackling it, and no-one really knows the sort | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
of anatomy of it until now. And that is what I sort of set out to do, to | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
understand how they are moving these players and why they are moving | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
these players, and it is multifaceted, really. | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
So they are young footballers, originally? Talk us through it. They | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
are desperate to play in Europe, they want to be the next Messi or | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
whatever. An agent or scout will see an opportunity to make money out of | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
them, either because he believes this kid is good enough to play | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
football, or that they can get hold of some family money offer him for | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
this trial, which may or may not exist. The kids may go for a trial | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
and, most likely, he will not be good enough, then the agent washes | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
his hands off him and he is left abandoned in Europe with nowhere to | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
go. What good Fifa do? There is a Fifa rule called Article 19 which | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
prevents the international transfer of miners, but within football the | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
law was not really adhered to. You probably member was alone at but a | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
transfer ban for signing miners when they should not have done. It is not | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
really worth the paper it is written on. This culture permeates from top | :32:05. | :32:16. | |
to bottom in the game. It means that scouts and agents are able to go | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
around exploiting people. These kids that come over, they don't make the | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
grade, maybe they don't even get a triad sometimes, what happens to | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
them? -- don't get a tryout. Often they end up in drugs or crime. We | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
heard that story about prostitution. I met a boy in an east London sink | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
estate called JJ who was traffic from Guinea at the age of 17, he | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
thought he was coming for football, there was no trial. He ended up in a | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
home in North London being pimped out two other men. He escaped, he | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
went to the Home Office and has been given asylum in the UK because his | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
family threatened to kill him because of the abuse he suffered. Is | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
there any sign that the authorities are getting a grip on this? Football | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
authorities, no. The National Crime Agency reasonably up to speed, they | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
are talking about 600 kids a year coming into the UK. It is beginning | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
to build. The issue has been around for some years but hopefully it will | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
be taken about more seriously. Ebury much, Ed Hawkins. | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
Let's go back to the regular news coming out of Mali, Islamist gunman | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
have attacked a hotel and are taking people hostage. It is reported that | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
there are two 170 hostages in the hotel, potentially up to ten gunman. | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
It is unfolding in the Radisson Blue hotel in the capital, Bamako. We are | :33:47. | :33:53. | |
hearing that there are at least two macro private security guards who | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
have been injured. The hotel group which owns and operates the hotel in | :33:59. | :34:09. | |
Mali has issued a statement. It adds that two macro people have locked in | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
140 guests and 30 employees. There is no confirmation of any gunfire, | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
injuries or deaths so far. That has been slightly superseded, we are | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
getting reports of gunfire but we still have no reports of injuries. | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
The US Embassy in Mali has issued a statement to American citizens in | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
the capital. It says the embassy is aware of an ongoing active shooter | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
operation at the Radisson hotel. US Embassy staff have been asked to | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
shelter in place. All US citizen should shelter in place. Try that US | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
citizens are encouraged to contact their families. Monitor local media | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
for updates. US citizens should adhere to the instructions of local | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
authorities and monitor local media. Former BBC Africa producer Kate | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
Forbes is with me. You have stayed at this hotel in the past? Yes, it | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
is a decompression place where we all used to stay when we were | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
covering the war in the north of Mali. Mali has a big problem with an | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
Islamic... Islamic she had is movement mainly in the north. It has | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
been contained their most of the time, but we have had incidents in | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
Bamako before. -- and Islamic art macro movement. This is used by | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
NGOs, the World Bank the IMF. High-level NGOs, diplomats, it is in | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
the centre of town is quite expensive. It has security. When you | :35:40. | :35:48. | |
go in, you are met by security. But I am not sure how this happened. The | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
fact that high profile westerners would stay there would a target? | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
Yes. When we were considering options of somewhere to decompress | :36:03. | :36:04. | |
after having gone up and down covering the war in the north, we | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
were advised to think carefully about staying there because although | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
it was the best hotel, with everything we needed in it, it is | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
also extremely high profile. The French community there is very | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
strong, it is used for business meetings, for NGOs, politicians etc. | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
As you are saying, it is an area with a problem. Does that therefore | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
mean tourist stay away? The tourist industry took a real hate after the | :36:37. | :36:43. | |
war. French tourists small van anglophone tourists, I would say, | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
still go. Mali is an amazing country, it is definitely want to | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
look at, but jihadis are targeting tourist points because they know | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
that that will make people stay away. There have been previous | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
incidents, I think there was one in August? Quite if you have been | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
foiled, there have been small incidents. And in the North, it | :37:08. | :37:15. | |
became quite regular, the French Army working with the Mali Army have | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
done a lot of work to secure the North, but it has not stopped | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
small-scale terror attacks. This is the biggest we have seen. Tell us | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
more about the strength of that Islamic jihadis to movement and the | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
resources they have? When we went up into Timbuktu when it was freed by | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
the French, you could say, but also by the Malian army, there was a lot | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
of evidence of militant Islamist control of the town. They had burned | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
lots of books, they had tried to impose their own codes of dress on | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
female residents. Lots and lots of the rules. They had really taken | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
hold. The French went in, they got them out, but as with most jihadi | :38:02. | :38:10. | |
movement is, -- movements, you cannot say you have eradicated that | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
section of society. What about the rest of society and how this is | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
viewed? For the ordinary person in Mali, what the president said today | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
reflects their view, this is not Islam, this is not our religion, | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
this is not our society, this is not how we want our society to be. They | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
condemn it in strongest terms. I think we will get the latest from | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
our correspondent in a few moments. Let me bring you right up to date | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
with the very latest development that we have. At least two macro | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
private security guards, we hear, have been injured in the attack on | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
that riders and hotel -- Radisson Blu hotel in the Mali capital, | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
Bamako. It has been reported on Reuters. Gunman arrived at that | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
hotel at around 7am on board a vehicle which forced its way through | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
a security barrier at the hotel. The reports are that 170 people are | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
being held hostage in the hotel, 130 guests is, sorry, 140 guests, and 30 | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
members of staff, the initial report. That detail just threw about | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
the way they got into the hotel, forcing their way through a security | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
barrier in a vehicle, we were just hearing about the levels of security | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
at that hotel, it has been seen as a potential target. Ben Geoghegan | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
joins me. It is an unclear pig show. One or two macro images appearing | :39:50. | :40:00. | |
online -- it is an unclear picture. You can't really get an impression | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
of what is going on. Difficult to put it together at the moment. | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
Conflicting reports about how many hostage-takers there may have been, | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
whether it is two, one report from Reuters say that around ten binmen | :40:18. | :40:19. | |
are believed to be inside the hotel. I suppose the best guide is from the | :40:20. | :40:33. | |
hotel 's owners. -- about ten gunmen. As far as their information | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
is can burned, they say that two people have locked in 130 guests, 30 | :40:39. | :40:50. | |
employees. Two private security guards may have been injured. There | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
is an indication that some guests were Chinese, but the hotel is in | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
the middle of an international area of Bamako, full of diplomats and | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
business people. We can expect a guest list to be pretty varied. | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
There is a member of staff who has given an account over the phone to | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
another news agency as saying that the attackers used grenades in the | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
assault. No information from that person on casualties or the number | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
of assailants involved. Conflicting reports, difficult at the moment to | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
get a clear picture of what is going on. The US embassy has asked | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
citizens to shelter in place amid reports of what they describe as an | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
ongoing active shooter operation. We have had a line from the Foreign | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
Office saying, we are in contact with local authorities and urgently | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
seeking further information following reports of an incident at | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
the Radisson Blu hotel in Bamako in Mali. The latest we are getting is | :41:54. | :42:01. | |
that the company is confirming, as you say, that 170 people are being | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
held hostage in what they describe as a brazen assault involving | :42:07. | :42:15. | |
grenades. I think the local security authorities are still grappling with | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
this. There was one Lieutenant Colonel, an adviser of the Defence | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
Ministry, he said a few minutes ago it is really not clear what has | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
happened. I think they are trying to get a handle on this. The US and | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
French embassies are asking citizens to take shelter where they are in | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
Bamako, and the commander of the Malian army says ten binmen stormed | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
the hotel, shouting a la black bar, or God is great, in Arabic. The area | :42:45. | :42:52. | |
has had in a street -- a history of issues? There was the military coup | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
in 2012, the French centre and forces. The problem has been mainly | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
confined to the north of the country, that has not prevented some | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
of these forces from going into southern areas and attacking, that | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
is what seems to be happening this morning. Thank you. We will keep you | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
updated but, for now, let's join carol with the weather. | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
We expect some snow over the next couple of days. We will not all see | :43:25. | :43:36. | |
it. It will turn colder. We have a weather front in the south of | :43:37. | :43:38. | |
England which will continue to move away, taking the rain with it. You | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
can see the change in the direction of the isobars, they will be coming | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
down from the north, from the Arctic, a much colder direction. You | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
will notice a change in temperature. We will lose the rain from the south | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
through the morning. Dry weather, sunshine and showers find it. But | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
behind this occlusion, it is already colder and the show we currently | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
have continued to turn more wintry through the course of the day, | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
especially over higher ground. We have that initially across Shetland, | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
then it'll come across the north of mainland Scotland. We are looking at | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
lots of dry weather. Showers across northern England. Across the | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
Midlands and into East Anglia and Kent, all the way towards the Isle | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
of Wight, we are looking at lots of dry weather with just the odd | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
shower. Dry weather to the south, blue skies, might show, some skies | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
across western parts Wales, it will be more cloudy at times. Eastern | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
Wales seeing the sunshine. Into Northern Ireland, a mixture of | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
bright spells, sunshine and showers, but increasingly in the cold air we | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
will see that falling as snow. Through the evening and overnight, | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
the wind picks up in the west across the Irish Sea and adjacent areas and | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
down the North Sea coastline. Gusting to gale force, possibly | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
more. Inland, gusting to around 50 mph. The snow is the other half of | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
the story. Snow across north-east Scotland and settling, even at low | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
levels. We will see some across the Southern uplands, Pennines and the | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
Vale of York, settling even at lower levels for a time. This area is a | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
mixture of rain, sleet and snow. Wintry showers. You might wake | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
tomorrow with a dusting but we do not expected last. | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
We are looking at snow showers across Snowdonia, the Brecon Beacons | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
and the tops of the murders. It is not really surprising that it will | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
be a cold night. -- the tops of the moors. Watch out for slippery | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
surfaces bursting. The wintry mix continues to slip | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
southwards tomorrow morning, getting towards the far south-eastern | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
corner. Rain, sleet and snow. There will be wintry flurries across | :45:53. | :45:54. | |
eastern England at times but it will clear for many. Gusty winds, it will | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
feel raw first thing, but the winds easing through the day. Wintry | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
showers across Wales and be moors. Temperatures tomorrow range from | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
three to nine, lower than it has been. When you add on the effects of | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
the wind, how it will feel if you are stepping out, it will be closer | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
to freezing or below. Sunday see something quieter with lighter winds | :46:19. | :46:19. | |
and snow flurries in the East. Hello, it's ten o'clock, | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
I'm Joanna Gosling. Welcome to the programme | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
if you've just joined us. Gunmen in Mali have attacked | :46:25. | :46:26. | |
an international hotel There are reports | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
hostages have been taken. We are looking at another | :46:31. | :46:44. | |
major Islamist terror attack this morning - this time in | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
the west African country of Mali. Two gunmen with automatic weapons | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
are understood to be holed up in the Radisson Blu hotel, | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
holding scores of hostages, There are reports that some have | :46:55. | :47:11. | |
been killed. The hotel is used by UN staff, Air France staff, and members | :47:12. | :47:20. | |
of the Chinese business community. Mali is a former French colony with | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
a significant Islamist insurgency, and there have been French military | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
boots on the ground to try to control it. Ben Geoghegan is here, | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
what is the latest? Well, we're still trying to piece things | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
together, but what we have heard is that there are about 170 hostages at | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
this hotel, 140 guests, 30 employees. It is an ongoing | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
situation, we believe. We have had comments from the US Embassy in | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
Mali, they are telling their citizens to shelter where they are, | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
amid reports of what they describe as an ongoing active shooter | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
operation. Conflicting reports about how many gunmen may be involved, one | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
report saying that there were ten gunmen believed to be inside the | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
hotel in the capital, but the report saying that it just involves two | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
gunmen, and the hotel's owning group, they say they are aware of | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
the hostagetaking, it is ongoing at the property. As far as their | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
information is concerned, they say there are two people who have locked | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
in 140 guests and 30 employees. A few photographs of the scene have | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
begun to emerge online now, you can see a sort of chaos as it looks like | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
security forces have closed off the area, parked cars in the middle of | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
the street, people waving their arms and so on. We are still waiting for | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
the detail both on what is happening outside the hotel and what is going | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
on inside as well. What are we hearing about gunshots being fired | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
on a potential casualties? Again, conflicting reports of gunfire, and | :49:01. | :49:07. | |
one or two suggestions that there may have been grenades. As we say, | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
we're just trying to piece together the information, bits of information | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
coming through. The hotel is in the west of the capital, in an area | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
weather is a lot of big international community, diplomats, | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
governments. -- where there is. A couple of accounts have come from | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
Chinese tourists, there is likely to be quite a large Chinese contingent | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
inside the hotel, but it is an international area, likely to be | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
tourists from all sorts of countries at the moment. What do we know about | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
levels of security at that hotel? Won't imagine they are high, but we | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
have not got the detail on that. There was a coup in 2012, the French | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
sending troops to try to deal with that, they pushed out Islamic | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
extremists, but there have been problems ever since with attacks, | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
one as recently as March, in which masked gunmen shot at a restaurant | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
and five people were killed, a restaurant that was popular with | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
foreigners. So there has been this ongoing insurgency, so you would | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
imagine that security in places like this hotel would be pretty intense. | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
We are just hearing a security source being quoted on the Reuters | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
news agency as saying that the gunmen have read some hostages, | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
including those able to recite verses of the Koran. Well, yes, | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
we're just getting this information all the time from the various | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
different news agencies. If that is happening, then obviously that still | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
means that, to some extent, it suggests that the hostage-takers are | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
still in control of that situation. By all accounts, a very dangerous | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
one. George Joffe is an expert on Mali, professor of politics at | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
Cambridge University, he joins us via Skype. We are just getting these | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
initial reports, tell us your thoughts based on the history of | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
Mali. Well, I think, first of all, we have to see this in connection | :51:09. | :51:16. | |
with the events in Paris. This really is a statement about the | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
French failures to subdue the Islamist groups in Mali that were | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
active in 2013, in January 2013, trying to take the capital, Bamako. | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
So in a way, it is a statement about what happened in Paris, and a | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
statement about the continued and rest in northern Mali, and the lack | :51:35. | :51:41. | |
of success of French and Mali and forces to suppress the Islamist | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
groups there. So the fact that this is a former French colony, you are | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
seeing that as being highly significant Ulster it is not that it | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
is a former French colony so much, it is the fact that the French army | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
intervened in January 2013 to protect the capital from being taken | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
over. At the same time, a dissident elements of the groups in Mali also | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
attacked Algeria, and a major gas facility there. So in a way, the | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
point really is that the groups concerned who are affiliated to | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
Al-Qaeda wants to demonstrate that they are still active, acting in | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
sympathy with their compatriots and colleagues in France, and of course | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
with the Islamic State in the Middle East. That is a very interesting | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
collision of interests, because normally Al-Qaeda and Islamic State | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
are diametrically opposed to each other. What we are seeing here is | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
the beginning of a widespread demonstration, extremists of the | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
four actions against Europe and actions against France. -- extremist | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
sympathy for. So this is most likely a group affiliated to Al-Qaeda, not | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
IS? There is dispute about that, because groups in northern Mali are | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
supposed to be considering whether they will affiliated with Islamic | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
State rather than Al-Qaeda. There are three groups involved. One | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
originates from Algeria, they came to Mali in 2003, another is a split | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
off from that original group, and it involves non-Algerian extremists. | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
The third group that has been active alongside the other two. -- the | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
third group is a Tuareg group. They took over Timbuktu in 2012, and they | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
have been there ever since. The French did push them back in 2013, | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
but they were not able to eliminate them completely, and they have now | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
grown again. In a sense, they are demonstrating that they still exist, | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
they are powerful, and they are looking for new affiliation. So the | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
link with Paris is therefore quite significant. So you think this would | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
have been deliberately timed, then, to come after Paris? I do not know | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
if it was deliberately timed, I doubt if there was coordination | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
between the groups concerned, their means of communication are not that | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
good, but I think it is an attack in sympathy. There have been other | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
attacks on Bamako before, you heard about the attack on the restaurant | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
in March, but there were attacks last and the year before, and the | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
attacks take place there because it is a main centre for the aid | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
agencies and the foreign powers engaged in Mali. As you heard, the | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
Chinese are particularly active there, so it is a good place to make | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
a demonstration that will be noticed by the wider world. Bearing that in | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
mind, then, that hotel would have been seen as a potential targets - | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
what sort of security should there have been in place at that hotel? We | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
hear that the gunmen got into the hotel by breaking through security | :54:55. | :55:01. | |
in a vehicle. Well, I'm afraid to say that the Malian army, which is | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
responsible for security there, is notorious for the fact that it is | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
ill disciplined and ill trained. It received a lot of American help in | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
years past, but a lot of that was taken in corrupt collections by | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
members of the government. The result has been considerable | :55:18. | :55:20. | |
discontent inside the army, and there have been at least two army | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
mutinies in recent years against the government because of the | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
dissatisfaction of soldiers with their conditions of service. They | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
have also been involved, alongside French, and trying to suppress the | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
extremists in the north of the country, but again not very | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
successfully, and there is a lot of tension between North and South in | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
Mali, between different ethnic groups, and I think that has | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
probably played into the fact that the groups can penetrate quite | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
easily into the capital. George Joffe, for the moment, thank you. | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
Let's bring Ben Geoghegan back in, I know you across the latest | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
developments. Just reading the latest reports to appear on the | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
wires here about several wounded people evacuating from the hotel. | :56:05. | :56:11. | |
Now, we cannot confirm this, it is just another little bit of | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
information that one has to see in the context of everything else that | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
is coming in. I'm just going to read it as I see it for the first time | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
myself, the morning attack at the hotel has turned into a hostage | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
situation involving terrorists, and exchange of fire is still going on, | :56:26. | :56:32. | |
according to this report. At nine o'clock the situation had not been | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
brought under control, but a large number of security forces have been | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
deployed to the area, and some people have been interviewed at the | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
scene, they have talked about several people wounded and evacuated | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
by ambulance. So that is the latest we have heard on what is clearly an | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
unclear situation. But the headline is, and we have had several reports | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
to suggest this, 140 guests, 30 members of staff taken hostage at | :57:03. | :57:09. | |
this hotel. Also, another report was that the hostage-takers were | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
releasing some people if they were able to recite verses from the | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
Koran. Again, all unconfirmed, and it is going to be a while before we | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
get clarity. And no breakdown of where those guests might have come | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
from at this moment, beyond some reports indicating some Chinese. As | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
we have been saying, given the area where the hoteliers, you would | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
expect to have an international guest list, but we have heard from | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
several Chinese guests who have reported being trapped in that hotel | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
in the capital. But it is right in the middle of the sort of | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
international, political, diplomatic area, you would expect tourists and | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
business people from all over the world. Is it much of an area for | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
tourism, bearing in mind the problems Mali has had? Well, I guess | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
the tourist trade has been affected by the problems of a couple of years | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
ago, because there was that insurgency, and then the French | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
troops were sent in, Bamako was a no-go area for tourists a couple of | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
years ago, and it may be that things have improved, but of course the | :58:18. | :58:19. | |
Chinese are interested in doing deals in Africa, it is an area where | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
they want to help develop infrastructure in many different | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
countries there, so no surprise to hear that they are in the hotel. | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
Ben, thank you for bringing us right up to date. Let's go now to Paris, | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
Ben Brown is there, and there has been an update from the security | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
severs is investigating last week's rates, another body has been found | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
in the apartment which was raided. Tell us more. Yes, this is the big | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
police raid that there was on Wednesday morning, we were up there | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
one that was going on, Wednesday morning, Joanna, a seven-hour police | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
operation, police fired ?5,000 into that flat in Saint-Denis in the | :59:03. | :59:09. | |
north of Paris. -- 5000 rounds. We knew that one female had blown | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
herself up and another man was dead, and now we are hearing from the | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
Paris prosecutor that a third body, three dead terrorists in that flat. | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
They are also saying, and we knew last night, that one of them was | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who was one of the ringleaders, if you like, the | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
co-ordinate of last Friday's Paris attacks, and the man who the French | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
authorities were alarmed had managed to slip from Syria into friends | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
without anyone noticing. -- into France. We believe that the woman | :59:44. | :59:52. | |
who blew herself up, a passport in her name has just been revealed, it | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
was found in a handbag in the flat, so that seems to be the woman who | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
blew herself up quite early on in that police operation as police were | :00:02. | :00:04. | |
trying to get into the flat. And then a third body, who is that? That | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
is a key question for the police investigators here. If it is | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
26-year-old Saller Abdur slam, the man that police have been hunting | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
after these tariff attacks, that would be a breakthrough. -- Saller | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
Abdur slam. That seems unlikely, because he was seen leaving France | :00:24. | :00:25. | |
the day after the attacks, and at that stage the police did not know | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
they were after him, so he was checked at the border with Belgium | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
and allowed to go on his way. It is conceivable he came back to Paris | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
and was in that flat on Wednesday that the police raided in | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
Saint-Denis, but we will have to wait and see who that third body is, | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
they have not yet told us. Based on how long it took to | :00:42. | :00:51. | |
identify the bodies previously, when would you expect an identification? | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
It could be some time, it took a day or two macro to identify Abdelhamid | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
Abaaoud, and they did that by fingerprints from what was left of | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
his body. According to the Paris prosecutor his body was riddled with | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
bullets and shrapnel. It might take them some time, assuming they have | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
the original fingerprints or some sort of DNA sample, that is why it | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
is difficult to carry out sort of DNA sample, that is why it | :01:17. | :01:17. | |
is difficult to carry out this sort of identification. We are outside | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
the Bataclan cafe, where a week ago today 89 people lost their lives. | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
This was the scene of the deadliest attack last Friday. People have been | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
laying flowers here in the days since then. There will be a vigil | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
tonight in memory of the victims, at the Bataclan, and also at the scenes | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
of all the other attacks last Friday night which, in total, left 129 | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
people dead from 17 different nations. Thank you, Ben. | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
Some breaking news. The Metropolitan Police Service you done and reserved | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
apology to a group of women with whom its officers had relationships | :01:59. | :01:59. | |
well they were undercover. Our home affairs correspondent | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
Danny Shaw is in Central London. What has happened? I am here at the | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
Chambers of a legal firm where in just under an hour there will be a | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
press conference by the seven women who have been given an unreserved | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
apology by the Metropolitan Police because they had relationships with | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
five undercover policeman without knowing their real identities. The | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Metropolitan Police has issued an unreserved apology to the women and | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
a very detailed statement. It really couldn't be clearer, the statement | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
says that the relationships were abusive, deceitful and manipulative. | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
It says they were a violation of women's human rights and a gross | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
violation of the women's personal dignity and integrity, and an abuse | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
of police power, which caused the women significant trauma. I | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
unreservedly apologise, says Assistant Commissioner Martin | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
Hewitt, speaking on behalf of the Metropolitan. He makes another of | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
points. The women did not bring these relationships or what happened | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
in them on themselves, it may have reflected attitudes towards women in | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
the Metropolitan Police at the time. He says there is no place for those | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
attitudes. In some cases he believes that the undercover officers preyed | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
on the good nature of the women and manipulated their real motion 's, | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
leaving them at risk of further abuse. He says the questions about | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
weather the officers may have had genuine feelings for the women is | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
entirely irrelevant and it does not make their conduct except the ball. | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
It is a clear statement, a clear apology, and substantial | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
compensation is also been awarded to the seven women, but I am told that | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
is not what they were seeking. What they wanted above all was an apology | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
from the Met Police, and today they have it. Thank you, Danny. | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
One of the women had a relationship for more than four years with | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
She told our home affairs correspondent June Kelly how he | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
We attended relationship counselling for about 18 months, because I | :04:01. | :04:10. | |
wanted a baby, and he didn't. We were planning for a future. We had a | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
very domestic lifestyle. I was a schoolteacher, he was a joiner. He | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
would go out to work at six o'clock every morning, the back-out about | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
5:30pm. We would have said that together, we might go out to a | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
meeting, or not. He was completely integrated into my life, he is | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
ingrained in all the memorabilia of my life, the family photos from that | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
period of my life. My mother got remarried during that time, my | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
stepbrother got remarried. He was a very big part... He was my life for | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
five years. And then, overnight on he disappeared. And when he | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
disappeared, what did you think? I did not know what to think. It | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
didn't make sense. I knew a little bit about depression and I | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
understood that he was not functioning very well. After a | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
relatively short space of time, a few weeks, I met with another | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
activist who asked me lots of questions and said that we needed to | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
check that he, basically, wasn't a spy. At that point I know what this | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
person was talking about, but came away thinking, could he have been a | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
spy? It made everything slotted into place, if he was. It would have made | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
sense of the fact that I never met his family, they'd sense of the fact | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
that I never saw any photographs from when he was younger, the | :05:36. | :05:43. | |
legend, that I now realise it was, to avoid me digging further into his | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
background, would have all been part of that. And I convinced myself, | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
despite the fact that most people around me thought I was going | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
insane, but I convinced myself that that was what the truth was, that he | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
was a state agent of some sort. I wasn't sure weather that was MI5 or | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
special Branch. I would have recurring dreams for about a year | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
and a half where I would see him in the dream and ask him, are you | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
Special Branch or MI5? Then I would wake up. | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
Let's go back to the breaking news out of Mali, 170 people being held | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
hostage in a luxury hotel in the capital, Bamako. The latest reports | :06:27. | :06:35. | |
suggest that six staff members are inside the hotel, six staff members | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
of Turkish airlines. It is the first information we are getting | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
specifically of those caught up inside this hostagetaking in the | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
Radisson Blu in Mali. Turkish Outlines says six staff members are | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
in that hotel. It has a lot of international best working in the | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
diplomatic community. The government, also add port is | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
workers, and Turkish Airlines says six of its workers are caught up in | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
the siege. There is some security at this hotel equals it would have been | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
seen as a potential target in a country which has had problems with | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
Islamic extremism following a military coup in 2012. There have | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
been various incidents. Mainly the North is insecure, but there have | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
been militant attacks further south this year. This is the hotel, the | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
Radisson Blu in Bamako, the capital of Mali, which is under attack right | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
now. There are reports that some hostages who were able to recite | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
verses of the Koran were freed. The hotel is saying that in terms of the | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
numbers seized, 140 guests and 30 employees of that hotel. The reports | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
are that up to ten gunmen stormed the hotel, shouting Allahu Akbar, or | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
God is great in Arabic, before firing on the ground and taking | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
hostages. I can bring in one of our | :08:13. | :08:24. | |
correspondents from BBC Afrique. Please bring this up to date. Some | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
of the hostages who were able to recite verses from the Koran have | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
been saved, others are still inside the hotel. There is a massive | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
security operation going on as we are speaking. It involves the French | :08:40. | :08:49. | |
forces, the Mali troops and the US forces present in Mali. It is early | :08:50. | :08:59. | |
in the morning, that these gunmen came. Our correspondent on the field | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
told us that the gardeners who saw them coming were frightened and had | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
to leave the place. When they came, they went straight to the seventh | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
floor. Weather they had a specific target, we don't know. They are | :09:14. | :09:23. | |
presidential suites and a number of international guests stay there. At | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
least the staying at his hotel, which has 190 rooms. -- as we speak, | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
many guests are staying at this hotel. The seventh floor is where | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
the highest profile guests would be? That is what we understand. They | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
stormed the hotel, they went straight to the seventh floor. We | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
don't know if they were targeting a particular person or group, but what | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
is sure is that there are reports coming from Bamako, recently the | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
founder of an Islamist radical group issued a video asking his followers | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
to attack French forces and French interests in the country. A former | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
French colony, and following on from the Paris attack, people might | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
wonder whether there is a link, whether the timing is medical | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
incidents? That is what many people would ask. -- whether the timing is | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
not a coincidence? Radical groups, whether rebel groups, Islamist in | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
the country, they have not been happy about the French intervention | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
three years ago. Some of them may think that it is a containment | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
strategy, they had been contained but not defeated, Mali being a very | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
complex country. More than 1 million square kilometres. The northern part | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
has a desert area with lots of mountains. It has been a hideout for | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
the Islamist 's. They are now showing that they can come out and | :11:02. | :11:09. | |
strike, and in the North, West but also in capital, Oracle, to degs | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
target. Earlier I spoke to Kate Forbes, a | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
reporter who has previously stayed at this hotel. | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
It is a decompression place where we stayed when we were covering the war | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
in the north of Mali. Ali has a big drop them with the Islamic she had | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
is movement, mainly in the North -- Mali has a big problem with the | :11:35. | :11:43. | |
Islamic, jihadist movement. This hotel is used by NGOs, the World | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
Bank, the IMF, those sorts of high-level NGOs, diplomat. It is in | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
the centre of town, quite expensive. It has security on the front of the | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
building. When you go in, you are met by security, but I am not sure | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
how this happened. The fact that high profile westerners would stay | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
there would make it an obvious target? It does. When we were | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
considering our options of somewhere to decompress after having gone up | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
and down covering the war in the north, we were advised to think | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
carefully about staying there because although it was the best | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
hotel with everything that we needed, it is also extremely | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
high-profile. The French community there is very strong. It is used for | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
business meetings, for NGOs, politicians et cetera. It is an area | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
that has a problem. Does that mean that tourists should stay away? The | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
tourist industry took a real head after the war. French tourists more | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
than Anglophone tourists, I would say, still go. Mali is an amazing | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
country, it is definitely one to look at. But jihadis are targeting | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
tourist points because they know it will make people stay away. There | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
have been previous incident, I think there was one in August? Quite a few | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
have been foiled, there have been small incident. And in the north, it | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
became quite regular, the French army working with a million army. | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
They have done a lot of work to secure the North. -- working with | :13:33. | :13:42. | |
the Malian army. Tell us more about the strength of the Islamic she had | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
is to movement and their resources? -- the Islamic she had movement? | :13:51. | :14:00. | |
There was a lot of evidence of militant Islamist control of the | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
town. They had burned lots of books. They had tried to impose their own | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
codes of dress on female residents. Lots and lots of other rules. The | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
French went in, they got them out, but as with most jihadi movements, | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
you can't say that you have ever eradicated that section of society. | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
What about the rest of society, how this is viewed? For the ordinary | :14:32. | :15:06. | |
person, it reflects their view, this is not Islam, this is not our | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
religion, this is not our society, it is | :15:10. | :15:20. | |
a French presidential source has reportedly said French people are | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
among those held in the hotel siege. It follows on from Turkish | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
airlines confirming that six of its staff are not hotel. There have been | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
reports that several Chinese are in that hotel. No further details of | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
who is caught up in this 170 hostages being held in that hotel in | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
the capital of Mali, Bamako. The Foreign Office says it is monitoring | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
events. Let's bring you up to date with the latest developments. | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
The Radisson Blu hotel in Bamako is under attack from gunmen, 170 people | :15:57. | :16:08. | |
are held hostage. There is a massive ongoing security operation. Those | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
being held are said to be a guests and 40 staff. It is understood the | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
attackers be' car rammed through a security barrier. -- said to be 130 | :16:21. | :16:28. | |
guests. Mali has been plagued by insecurity since Islamist groups | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
seized control of the North and were then blocked by French troops. | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
A week on from the Paris terror attacks, Theresa May is urging the | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
European Union to rapidly implement further border security measures. | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
She is joined counterparts in Brussels for an emergency meeting in | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
the wake of the Paris attacks. It follows evidence that some of them | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
ended France undetected or posing as Syrian refugees. -- entered. | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
Senior police chiefs say more budget cuts could affect | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
the UK's ability to respond to a terror attack like Paris. | :17:04. | :17:05. | |
in the Chancellor's Spending Review next week. | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
charged with murdering 15-year-old Kayleigh Haywood. | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
Stephen Beadman, who's 28, is also charged with rape. | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
Kayleigh was last seen in Ibstock, Leicestershire, on Friday evening. | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
Back to developments in Mali, 170 people being held hostage in a | :17:17. | :17:34. | |
luxury hotel in Bamako, the rad as in the is popular with those in the | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
diplomatic community. -- Radisson Blu. It is also popular with the | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
government and those who work for airlines. It is... Just hearing, let | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
me just tell you that the Malian president is returning to the | :17:52. | :18:00. | |
country. He has broken off a visit to Chad, where he has been attending | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
a meeting of GE five Sahel members to discuss security in the meeting. | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
-- G5 Sahel. These are the first pictures we are getting of the | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
scenes outside the hotel. There is a large security presence, and I can | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
bring in Ben Geoghegan, who can bring is right up to date with the | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
latest developments. Yeah, just watching bits and pieces on social | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
media, looking at the footage. From what we have been able to see so | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
far, it does not look as though there are lots of security there. | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
One bit of footage from a Chinese tourists inside the hotel is looking | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
down onto quite an empty street, so not quite sure just how big a | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
security operation or where it is, but obviously a lot of things about | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
this are still unclear. As you were saying, 140 guests, 30 employees | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
taken hostage earlier this morning. Conflicting reports about how many | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
gunmen, there was a report of a car being rammed through security, | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
people shouting God is great in Arabic. The hotel owners have put | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
out a statement saying, as far as they knew, there were two gunmen, | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
and conflicting reports about whether they were just gunmen, or | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
whether they had grenades as well, there were reports of people hearing | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
explosions at the hotel. The US embassy is telling its nationals to | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
stay inside, and they have described this as an ongoing shooter | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
operation. That is their language. We have also had reports that a | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
number of people have been evacuated and have been taken to hospital. You | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
were saying earlier that there was a report about people being released | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
if they knew some of the verses of the Koran. Again, we have not | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
confirmed that, but it is coming up on the wires. Also, Chinese tourists | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
in no tell, six members of staff belonging to Turkish Airlines. We | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
know this is an international area of the capital, so bound to be | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
tourists from different countries there. And obviously this is an | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
ongoing situation, and we don't yet have a clear picture, but it seems | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
as though a people, at the beginning of this, had been taken hostage. We | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
can bring in a survivor of the attack in Bamako, he escaped from | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
the hotel gym. Thank you for joining us, tell us where you are. You are | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
welcome! I am in Bamako, I am living in the rad as an complex for the | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
last two years, and everyday I do my daily work-out, from six o'clock | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
until eight o'clock in the morning. Usually during that time, there are | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
a few people, but today it was extremely quiet. There were two | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
people inside the gym, they left, and I was a bit worried, because it | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
was quite during the process. We have the music on all the time at | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
the gym, so I didn't hear any gunshots. I left the gym, and I | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
tried to go in the lobby. I opened the lobby door slowly, and I saw | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
bullets on the ground. So I closed the door of the lobby, and I went | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
door to door, I came back into the gym, and from there I left the | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
hotel. Outside the hotel, there were police and military, they escorted | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
me out and brought me into my house, which is literally near Radisson, 20 | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
or 30 metres. So tell us more about the evidence you saw inside the | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
hotel, you saw bullets on the ground? Yes, I just opened the door | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
for two seconds, and I saw bullets on the ground, and I closed the door | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
slowly and I left. I mean, everything was clean and clear at | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
the gym area. I didn't see any people, but there were no bullet | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
holes or anything, that was it, I went out. Obviously I went out. You | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
mentioned music in the gym men she did not hear anything, tell us what | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
you did here that finally gave rise to you having concerns. -- you did | :22:16. | :22:23. | |
not hear anything. I did hear sporadic gunshots, but the gym, from | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
the lobby, it is a separate part, so it is quite far away, and it is very | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
difficult to hear anything. So you managed to get away, and are you | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
back at home now? Yeah, yeah. How close is that to the hotel? It is | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
adjacent, we are in the complex near the hotel, which is like 30 | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
centimetres, I walked there every morning. I walk there every | :22:52. | :23:00. | |
morning. It is near, we are in the complex, about 20 villas which are | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
adjacent to the hotel, it is near. Can you see and hear what is going | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
on right now? Can I see? If I go out in the street, yeah, I can see | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
something, but the security guards have advised us to stay home. OK, | :23:17. | :23:25. | |
stay home, stay safe. But I can hear sporadic gunshots, there have been | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
quite a few, yeah, even in the last minute there has been something. | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
There have been reports that the gunmen have grenades, have you heard | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
any explosions? No, well, I heard one explosion, but it could be like | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
the military trying to get inside the hotel. It could be anything. But | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
that was some time ago. Tell us who would stay at this hotel, who is it | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
popular with? I mean, this hotel is mostly popular with foreign | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
diplomats, people of the UN, businessmen flying in the country, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
military people, especially the French, the French operating in the | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
country for the last few years, mostly in the North to fight the | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
terrorists up there. It is mostly popular for foreign people and | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
businessmen who come in the country. We are hearing that Malian special | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
forces are at the scene of the hotel siege, they are giving... Oh, and | :24:31. | :24:38. | |
France is providing logistics and intelligence support according to a | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
French diplomatic source. We are hearing that security forces are | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
storming the hotel. Can you hear, that is according to the AFP news | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
agency, can you hear anything different at the moment? We are | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
getting reports that the hotel is being stormed. Now? Before I could | :24:55. | :25:04. | |
hear something. We know that they are gathering special forces, more | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
people, in the area. Even the guards in the complex are well armed now. | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
We are in the complex. How much security did you see when you left | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
the hotel? What was there in terms of police, army and other security? | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
Yeah, there was some people there, some police, and I saw some French | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
guys as well, especially Malians, which escorted me home. But it was | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
early time. I did not even finish my work-out, I did not have time to | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
finish my work-out, I left early, or something? Which was just the | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
beginning of the gathering of the forces. We are just getting reports | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
from the news agencies all the time, we are hearing that around ten | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
people have been evacuated from the hotel. Special forces have been able | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
to liberate and free around ten people, that is according to the AFP | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
news agency. There were also reports earlier that gunmen had let people | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
go if they were able to recite verses of the Koran. The Koran, that | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
is correct. I mean, if they are trying... If they try and ask them | :26:25. | :26:32. | |
to, you know, say something from the Koran, it seems to be obvious, the | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
motive behind this operation, this terrorist attack, what they are | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
trying to do. It is a hotel that, as you say, you use on a daily basis, | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
have you been concerned about security? Well, I was a bit | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
concerned, but we have, in the last few days, there was a mining | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
conference here, and there were many foreign people, and it was nice and | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
quiet, so to be honest with you, I did not really believe anything like | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
that would happen today or especially at this time in the | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
morning. This is not the time that, you know, the flight crews or people | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
check in. You mentioned foreign diplomats, people working for the | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
UN, militarily staying at that hotel. Yeah. Is it popular with | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
tourists? I mean, I would say the Radisson hotel, it is like, you | :27:38. | :27:45. | |
would say like most companies are there, where expats go for | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
restaurants and for drinks, this is the area where they live as well. So | :27:51. | :28:00. | |
this is a place which is under threat, which it was today. Michael, | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
thank you very much indeed for joining us, Michael managed to | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
escape from the hotel in Bamako, where he had been using the gym. He | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
was in the gym as events were unfolding and got away safely to his | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
home nearby. Ben Geoghegan is here, staying across all the latest | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
developments, bring us up to date. The latest we have had, a number of | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
people, I think around ten people, being evacuated from the hotel as a | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
was old of the security forces going in there. It appears as though they | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
may have rescued them. -- as a result. But as they went through the | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
hotel, there was a number of witnesses who saw the body of a man | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
lying on the floor, so that is the latest report we have had, but the | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
bigger picture is of about 170 people, earlier this morning, taken | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
hostage at the hotel, 140 guests, 30 employees. I think there are now | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
more reports than there were of the number of being gunmen being around | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
ten, rather than two, which is what the hotel owners said in a | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
statement, just two gunmen. More reports are now suggesting there | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
were more gunmen than that. They broke through a security barrier, | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
went into the hotel. As we have heard from our own reporter in the | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
Beijing, apparently they went straight up to the seventh floor. We | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
don't know why, but apparently they targeted that area have the hotel. | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
-- -- our reporter in the region. The US and French embassy say they | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
want their people to stay indoors, the Americans describing this as an | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
ongoing shooter situation. The British Embassy in London is saying | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
are urgently trying to find out if British nationals are trapped in the | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
hotel, a very international place, likely to be tourists, business | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
people, diplomats, military officials from all over the world. | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
This is an ongoing hostage situation, very different, | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
obviously, from Paris, which will be fresh in people's mines. Yes, | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
totally indiscriminate. It looks as though, from some of the reports, | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
and again we must be careful about repeating all of this, but some | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
reports are suggesting that the hostage-takers have read a number of | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
people once they have been able to test their knowledge of the Koran, a | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
number of people having been released at they have been able to | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
recite passages from the Koran, so a hostage situation, we do not know if | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
there are demands they are likely to make, it seems as though they are | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
dividing people up, deciding to keep some and release others. | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
The Reuters news agency says that French nationals are among those | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
held up, according to a source close to President Hollande. French people | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
are present and the president is following the situation closely. | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
Separately, a diplomatic force says that Marley and special forces are | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
up the scene and France is providing logistical support -- says that | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
Malian special forces are at the seams. Apparently the gunmen | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
attacking the hotel were shouting Islamic slogans. And also there are | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
reports that they have apparently allowed some people to go if they | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
could recite verses of the Koran. The French will be incredibly | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
anxious, wondering whether they have somehow been targeted. It is a | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
former French colony and the Frenchman Terry went in to disrupt | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
the insurgency a couple of years ago -- and the French military went in. | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
We just don't know whether they have been targeted, whether they were a | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
particular target or they have just been caught up along with several | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
dozens of other people who it seems are still being held hostage at this | :32:04. | :32:12. | |
hotel. So these are the first moving pictures that we have from the | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
scene. Looking at these pictures that we have, there does not seem to | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
be a huge amount of movement around outside. We are seeing these UN | :32:23. | :32:31. | |
vans, another vehicle, but as we understand the it is personnel from | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
the UN and local security and French army dividing logistical support. | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
And the local police, by the looks about the occult. You do not know | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
where these pictures are being taken from, a cord and has probably been | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
set up for away from the hotel. We don't know if this is close to the | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
hotel or some distance. The traffic seems to be moving reasonably | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
freely. I was looking at footage filmed from the hotel by a Chinese | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
tourist which came upon social media. That seemed to show empty | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
streets below the hotel itself. Difficult to say how many security | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
forces are there. You would imagine that, given what has gone on in the | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
country for some time, in an area like that the securities says would | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
have been ready to deploy fairly quickly and we would expect quite a | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
large presence by now. We have a reports of at least three hostages | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
killed. This is just one news agency, AFP, no further | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
confirmation, but AFP says the country's security minister has said | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
security forces are stalling the establishment and there are reports | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
that at least three hostages have been killed. -- storming the | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
establishment. It sounds like there is a storming under way as the | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
security forces tried to bring this hostagetaking to an end, but these | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
are reports, we are finding it difficult to get reports on the | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
ground. This is the latest from AFP, one of the big agencies, saying | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
three hostages have been killed. I think the same agency reported that | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
security forces had gone into the hotel and managed to allow ten or so | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
people to escape. There were reports of a wad Eli Ying on the floor. -- a | :34:22. | :34:33. | |
body lying on the floor. It is possible. It does look as though | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
that may have been fatalities, people may have been killed. The | :34:41. | :34:49. | |
latest copy from AFP quotes a spokesperson talking about what is | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
happening right now in terms of storming the hotel. They are saying | :34:54. | :35:03. | |
that there are two to three hostage-takers? We have had | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
conflicting reports. Several reports say as many as ten. You would | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
imagine that to mount an operation like this, perhaps the terrorists | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
would go in with more than two people. It is quite a large hotel, | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
190 rooms. They may not be able to gain control in the way that they | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
seem to have done with just two people. It would make sense that | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
there would perhaps be more than that. It is one of those things, we | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
don't know for sure. Conflicting reports, people say only two gunman, | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
others say ten. The company that owns the hotel, in its statement a | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
little while ago, said they thought there were just two hostage-takers. | :35:48. | :35:55. | |
We are hearing from the US Embassy in Mali that it is asking citizens | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
to shelter in place. The French authorities are also saying that any | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
French citizens must shelter. In terms of nationalities involved in | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
this hostagetaking, Turkish Airlines say that six employees were in the | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
hotel. We have had reports of some Chinese in the hotel and French | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
presidential sources say there were some French in the hotel, but we | :36:22. | :36:30. | |
don't have numbers. The AFP, sorry, the AP newsagency is quoting | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
somebody who has been able to leave the hotel. She was a guest and | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
managed to leave with six other people. They were escorted out by | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
security forces as the gunman reportedly rushed towards the fifth | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
or sixth floor. She said, I think they are still there, I have left | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
the hotel, I don't know where to go, I am tired and in shock. | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
Earlier we spoke to a man who lives just by the hotel, he was in the | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
hotel as this was unfolding, using the gym. He said he did not yet | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
anything as he was listening to music. It was only when he left the | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
gym that he saw blitz on the floor and realise that something was under | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
way -- bullet is on the floor. He returned safely home. | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
Let's bring in someone from the Africa programme at Chatham House, | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
which specialises in the Central African Republic. There are 170 | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
hostages, we understand, inside this hotel. What is your perspective? It | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
is very hard to tell exactly what is happening on the ground with all | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
these crisis situations, but the more important background is that on | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
the one hand, the jihadists in Mali have been losing political ground. | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
There was a peace agreement in the middle of this year between the | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
non-jihadi rebels campaigning for autonomy for the North, and the | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
Government. That is shifting the political momentum a little bit | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
against the radicals. They then fought back. We have had a series of | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
attacks. There was a hotel siege in a small town in the centre of the | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
country in August. The Malian special forces managed to end bad, | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
but there was considerable loss of life. In October, in a recording | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
which is only just emerged, one of the leaders of the original jihadi | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
takeover of northern Mali basically reaffirmed his face in the jihadist | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
struggle, rejected the peace deal outright. Last week a senior figure | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
in the FLM, and the jihadist group, was captured by security forces. In | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
some ways, they are on the defensive, politically, but in | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
security terms, because they have moved from conventional combat to | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
scatter-gun terrorism, if you like, all over the country, it is very | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
difficult to tackle because you never know when the next attack will | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
be. There have been attacks pretty much all over Mali this year. The | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
situation predates Paris. The French are caught up in Mali, a former | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
French colony. Their military has been on the ground in Mali. Some | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
might wonder whether this is another attack on France? As far as the | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
jihadists are concerned, they will see it as an attack on France. The | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
devices -- decisive factor in the crisis at two or three years ago was | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
when the Malian government, with the support of the whole population, | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
pretty much, the French army intervened decisively to end the | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
jihadist takeover in the north of the country. There is very little | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
popular support for the jihadist agenda at all in Mali. Islam in Mali | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
is traditionally very relaxed, tolerant, pluralistic. The country | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
has quite a long democratic culture. Jihadism is very much in variance | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
with Malian traditions. But because the French played that critical role | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
in 2013, and maintain a force in the north of the country, basically | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
helping the Malian Army tackle terrorism, that means that anything | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
French in some ways will be viewed as a target. A very different attack | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
from what we have just seen happening in Paris. Talking to one | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
expert who was saying that this is Al-Qaeda affiliated militants rather | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
than Isis militants? It is hard to define. With these international | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
terrorist franchises, people can announce that they are the local arm | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
of this or that movement, it is quite hard to pin down. But one of | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
the main groups that led the jihadist takeover of northern Mali | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
back in 2012 was Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Maghreb, which was formerly | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
affiliated to Al-Qaeda. What we don't know about many recent | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
incident, some of them may have connections to that group. Some of | :41:12. | :41:18. | |
them may be linked to other groups. The hotel siege in August seems to | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
have been essentially a local preacher with some violent followers | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
tapping into certain local grievances among sections of the | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
community and attracting some local young men to join his group. That is | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
very different to the, how can one put it, international jihadist | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
involved in the crisis of three years ago. At this stage in this | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
stage we do not know who the gunman are. They could have been motivated | :41:46. | :41:55. | |
by both local factors and this international wider agenda. | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
Everybody in Mali, cost the country has very close links to France, | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
everyone not only will have seen the news from Paris but many people will | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
know people in front. -- in France. There have been cases in the French | :42:10. | :42:17. | |
siege back in January, the siege in the Jewish supermarket, it was a | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
Malian resident in France who rescued many of the hostages, | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
somebody working in the supermarket. There is quite a strong connection. | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
It is quite possible but French events have triggered this. | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
Let's bring in Ben Geoghegan, staying across the latest | :42:36. | :42:37. | |
developments. A report has come in that 20 of the | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
hostages have been released or evacuated by the security forces. A | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
number of reports quoting a Malian government minister saying at least | :42:50. | :42:51. | |
three of the hostages have been killed. The minister said security | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
forces were storming the building and had managed to free around ten | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
of those detained. I think that number has perhaps gone up to 20. It | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
looks as though this operation is still under way but it seems like | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
the security forces are having some success. One of the line is that | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
President Obama has been briefed on this attack by the national security | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
adviser, he is following events as well. Ben thank you very much. You | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
have been watching our continuing coverage of events in Mali, where a | :43:27. | :43:34. | |
hotel siege is under way. 170 hostages reportedly held in Bisla | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
three -- this luxury hotel in Bamako, the capital of Mali. | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
Continuing coverage on BBC news throughout the day. I will say | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
goodbye. Have a lovely weekend. See you soon. | :43:51. | :43:53. |