24/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire


24/11/2015

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Residents in Brussels tell us they're too frightened to leave

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their house at all as the lock-down in the capital continues.

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I'm Patrick living in Brussels and I haven't left my home for two days.

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Also on the programme - watch what happens when we took

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Saturdays singer Frankie Bridge who's been called "fat" on social

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OK, so why did you? Just people getting replies from trolling and,

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you know, people join in. Watch that full exclusive film

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after 0930 this morning. Plus a student tells this programme

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he's been called a "rapist" and had to miss lectures after questioning

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the effectiveness of sexual consent Quite insulting to be invited to a

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class that emimplies, the very nature of it implies that I don't

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know how to treat other people. Hello, welcome to the programme,

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we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Throughout the programme we'll bring

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you the latest breaking news It's being reported that Turkey shot

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down a plane in their air space. Footage shows that.

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After 1030 we'll speak to former England cricketer Kevin Pietersen

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and we;ll look at a huge rise in so-called legal highs in prisons.

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As always - do get in touch to discuss all

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Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

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And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you

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are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria.

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You can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

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by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire.

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'It makes me want to cry, terrorists have shut down our city

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without a single bomb', - the words of one Brussels resident summing up

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The Belgium capital has been in lockdown since the weekend; schools,

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the metro, cinemas and other public buildings are closed and many people

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are staying off work over fears of a credible and imminent terror attack.

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In Paris, 11 days after the terror attacks which killed 130 people,

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So what's it like living in such a climate of fear?

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Patrick, Manuela and Elisa are in Brussels.

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And in Paris we can speak to Shantal,

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Thank you for joining us. We'll start with

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Thank you for joining us. We'll it's been like in Brussels the last

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few days? Good morning. The last few days we didn't go out that much. The

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last time we went to a party was on Friday evening. When we got

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last time we went to a party was on the morning, we heard that

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everything was on lockdown, that we the morning, we heard that

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had to avoid going to the city centre and, on Sunday, I still went

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with the car in the city centre to have a look what was happening and

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it was very calm. There were still people on the streets but very calm.

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Since Sunday, we just stay at home and we wait. If we don't have to go

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outside, we prefer to stay inside to avoid any risk. And

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outside, we prefer to stay inside to do you feel about that? I'm a bit

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shocked, Saturday in front of my apartment there was police, a black

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car with big man with machine guns, from the police, so it was worrying

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to see them just here in front of my apartment. Also because I'm not

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living in the centre. Then I went out yesterday actually just to do

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some groceries and there is a strange atmosphere in the city. In

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some groceries and there is a what way, give us an insight? People

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are starting to look at each other in a strange way. I mean, there are

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some strange looks, especially in front of the

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some strange looks, especially in usually go, there was a police car

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so usually go, there was a police car

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alert side. So in a sort usually go, there was a police car

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mistrustful way, people looking at each other with suspicion Exactly. I

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don't think this lockdown is helping us move forward.

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What would us move forward.

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government to do if they have warnings or, you know, evidence that

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there is an imminent terrorist attack? Yes, indeed, I mean the

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lockdown is a solution, but in the long-term, I mean if we know that

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most of the citizens are feeling worried, this is not the solution in

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the long-term I think to keep us in lockdown. Now they are even talking

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about finishing and ending the lockdown on Monday. This is

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something that has consequences in the long-term in the sense of how we

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feel as a community in Brussels. I'm not so worried about the terrorist

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attack, I have to say, but I'm worried about the long-term

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consequences of the actions and the feelings that we have. I wonder what

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you think will happen Wenlockdown is over, when security is relaxed, what

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then? That is the difficult thing because they are telling us that

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maybe tomorrow the Metros will be opening and the schools will be open

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but we'll still get a level four risk so the risk won't have

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decreased but they're opening up the city again because, I mean they have

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to, they can't keep us locked down for ever. Life has to go on at some

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point. But obviously there's still a major risk so that makes me a bit

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nervous. Yes. Shantal in Paris, good morning to you, thank you for coming

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on our programme. What do you say to your compatriots in Brussels where

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there hassen been a terror attack but where they are feeling really

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under pressure For me, because we have never been on a lockdown after

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the attacks, we just keep on going, we are stronger than ever. I have a

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14-year-old daughter, she has to go on the Metro, she has to go, she has

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to go to school and I tell her, don't panic about a terrorist, but

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be panicked about panic because they want to scare us. So that is it,

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yes, keep going, don't get the fear in your head, we have to two on.

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Patrick, what would you say to Chantal? I think she's right. You

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need to continue to live, but just take care where you go and maybe

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avoid the big risks. I think in the end we will have to go on with our

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lives and accept the fact that it's a new way of living, that you will

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always have the risks even if they find the guys now, there'll still be

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other terrorist cells in the future. We'll never have a zero risk.

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Marook, what would you say to Letitia, Alisa and Patrick in

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Brussels? Good morning. I would like to tell them that we stand by them

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because we've experienced that, we have been having attacks here and,

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although they haven't got the attackers, we just want to say that

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yes you have to keep on living and to not be afraid. Although the fear

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is legitimate, we can understand that people are afraid, but they

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have to overcome this and keep on living.

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Pierre-Marie you live a few blocks from where the police had that gun

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fight with the terror suspects last Wednesday in northern Paris, are you

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afraid? No, I am not afraid. I just am thinking about the new situation.

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I am very impressed at this situation. We have to do this. It's

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better, if you want to be free, we have to be alive before. At the

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moment, we have to be more careful in our life, we have to adapt. We

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have the adapt to this new situation. We can live if nothing

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happen outside. If something happen, unfortunately, it's not nice. I

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wonder how free you feel in Brussels? Less free than before.

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Especially after last week when I was going to work. Usually I take

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the tram to go to the centre and I have to say that I took the bike so

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I let fear come into me. So, we feel less freedom than before and this is

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not normal. I understand the Government, it's right to do this

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and it's its duty to protect us but I'm wondering if this is the right

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solution for a long-term plan. Letitia, when the Metro opens and

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schools open tomorrow as they apparently will, will you go back to

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work, carry on as normal, what? Yes, I've been trying to carry on as

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normal as I can actually. I live right in the centre and I'm kind of

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reassured by the police presence actually but obviously there are

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things you can't do, the shops and the Metro are closed and the Metro

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is important to me. When the Metro opens tomorrow, yes, I'll probably

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get back on it but I think it will be a case of it's going to be

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natural to be nervous, you are going to look at people and looking for

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danger. That is probably what is going to change. Chantal, you live

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close to the Bataclan Theatre, give us a sense of what it's been like

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there over the past ten, 11 days? We have been surrounded by a lot of

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soldiers, but I have to say that the people in general have been very

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positive. It's a bit of forced positivity, but I think it's in

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France people realise we can't live in fear, we have to continue and so

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I walk every day for five minutes to the Pepublique, I meet my locals

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here and we talk and yes, it's reality and there's nothing else we

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can do -- Republique. It's really interesting to hear you all discuss

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this together because clearly, we had the horrendous terrorist attacks

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in Paris and from what I'm gathering, I know it's only a very

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small snapshot but from what I'm gathering from the Parisian

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residents, it's an attitude of, we have to keep going and yet in

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Brussels where this's been no terrorist attack but the threat has

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been raised, you are sounding like the ones really living in fear.

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Indeed. More or less, yes. Don't live in fear, guys, keep going. You

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are safer than ever. You have all protection around you at the moment

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because they are on high alert, please keep going. I think that this

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is really like the problem of the fear that they are creating on us

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and it's, it might be justifiable, but it creates a long-term feeling

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in the city amongst the people living in the city that is not good.

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So yes, I actually agree with the previous person, Letitia that we

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need to keep going. We need to show our citizens here that we actually

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care about the city so go out and go in bars as far as they are open.

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Yes, it's hard when you see so many soldiers on the street. You have to

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remember that the chances of being caught up in an attack are very

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slim, so yes, you can't let that fear stop you getting on with life,

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especially not long-term. Indeed, yes. Marook, can you give us an

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insight into whether anything's changed in so far as the way you are

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treated as you walk around your city of Paris? Well, nothing has changed

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really. I'm a Muslim, a French Muslim woman and I keep my vale on

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me and the fact that I have this is something something, I've been

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having looks since way before these attacks or the Charlie Hebdo attack,

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but what I agree with, with all the people who've been talking here, is

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that yes, the French society have been very, very positive about it,

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we have been having a lot of good messages of, we stand united, but at

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the same time, the fear messages of, we stand united, but at

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PROBLEM WITH SOUND

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PROBLEM WITH I think we are just losing your line

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We got the gist of what you were there.

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We got the gist of what you were saying,

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We got the gist of what you were coming on the programme, I really

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appreciate it from Brussels and from Thank you for talking to each other,

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we wish you all the best. We will on the breaking news from

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Turkey, where a Turkish fighter jet has shot down a Russian plane, that

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is that is what is being reported at the moment. Officials in Ankara say

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it straight into Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings to

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turn back. Videos footage shows the plane on fire before it crashed into

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a hill. Defence officials in Moscow said the pilot ejected. Have a look

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at this. The two pilot apparently injected from the plane as you see

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it coming down towards the ground. Their fate at the moment is unclear,

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reports say one of them is in the custody of forces in Syria. They

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denied the plane had crossed into Turkish air plane. Reuters is

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quoting a Turkish official saying that two Russian planes had

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approached the border and were warned before they were shot down,

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saying they have footage that shows that their airspace was repeatedly

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violated. We will keep you a cross that story.

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In fact, we can speak to our News correspondent Andy Moore to explain

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what we know so far. What the Turkish military are

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saying, that they warned this jet ten times in five minutes that it

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was violating Turkish airspace, according to the Turks it ignored

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those messages and they said then it was shot down by two Turkish F-16

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aircraft. Turkey also says that it has briefed Nato and the United

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Nations and its allies about these latest development on its borders.

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Then we have the account of the Russian military, they said the

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aircraft was over Syrian airspace the whole time, they say they can

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prove that from their records. They say, confusingly, according to the

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Russian defence Ministry, that it may have been shot down by fire from

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the ground. We also know, according to the Russians, that the two

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personnel on board injected and parachuted, but the Russians say

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they don't know what has happened to the two pilot. There are reports,

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there are helicopters on the way to try to pick them up, but what

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happened to them we don't know at this stage.

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We will bring you more as we get it, of course.

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Saturdays' singer Frankie Bridge, herself a victim of online abuse,

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confronts a social media troll about why he insults strangers.

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And a student has told this programme he's been driven out of

:18:32.:18:34.

lectures and called a 'rapist' after he

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questioned the effectiveness of sexual "consent workshops".

:18:37.:18:37.

Turkish jets have reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on

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the border with Syria. Russia says the jet crashed in northern Syria

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and that it's two pilot rejected. It says the plane's entire flight was

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over Syria. Turkey says it warned the pilots they had entered Turkish

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airspace. Police in Paris are examining what's

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thought to be An explosives belt which may have

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been dumped by a terrorist who decided not to blow himself up.

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It was found among rubbish close to where a mobile phone used by the key

:19:20.:19:22.

suspect, Salah Abdeslam, was traced on the night of the killings.

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He's now thought to be in Belgium, where a big police operation is

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It remained under lockdown as the hunt for the suspect continues.

:19:29.:19:31.

The Children's Commissioner for England, Anne Longfield,

:19:32.:19:33.

says 85% of cases of child sexual abuse may go undetected.

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A report found that 50,000 children were identified

:19:36.:19:38.

as being abused between 2012 and 2014, but it estimates the true

:19:39.:19:42.

Police searching for a missing Sheffield student,

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Caroline Everest, have found a woman's body in a river.

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Our reporter can tell us the latest. Yes, a developing story, police said

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they found the body in the early hours of this morning as they were

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searching for Caroline Everest. She was reported missing on Sunday, she

:20:08.:20:10.

had been to visit a popular nightclub in the middle of

:20:11.:20:13.

Sheffield, last seen leaving their in the early hours of Sunday morning

:20:14.:20:18.

at around 1:30am, two-way, and did not turn up for a family Mail On

:20:19.:20:23.

Sunday. A big police hunt in Sheffield yesterday looks sadly like

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it has come to a conclusion with the discovery of the body. Police have

:20:28.:20:30.

not yet confirmed it is Caroline's body but they believe it is and have

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informed her family, who are now being supported by specially trained

:20:35.:20:36.

officers. Thank you.

:20:37.:20:40.

The NHS in England is to receive an extra ?3.8 billion

:20:41.:20:43.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will also

:20:44.:20:49.

It is up to them whether they spend it on help. -- on health.

:20:50.:20:59.

EasyJet has announced that it is cancelling all its flights to

:21:00.:21:01.

and from Sharm el-Sheikh until after the Christmas period.

:21:02.:21:05.

The airline said that all none of its planes will fly to

:21:06.:21:08.

the Egyptian holiday resort until January 6th because of safety

:21:09.:21:11.

concerns following the bombing of a Russian airliner last month.

:21:12.:21:13.

Two others are also suspended float in December.

:21:14.:21:15.

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:21:16.:21:19.

Arsenal have been present in the knockout stages in the last 12 years

:21:20.:21:26.

in Europe's elite competition, they have Dean as I grabbed at home but

:21:27.:21:30.

even beating them might not be enough to make it into the last 16.

:21:31.:21:33.

Chelsea play Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israel, they should win, possibly

:21:34.:21:37.

going through to the knockout game this evening with a game to spare.

:21:38.:21:42.

We will be light at 10am looking at all of the permutations.

:21:43.:21:45.

A great win for Sunderland last night, a rare clean sheet, a first

:21:46.:21:50.

away win beating Crystal Palace 1-0.

:21:51.:21:52.

Another day, another controversial comment from Tyson Fury, getting

:21:53.:21:55.

ready for his world title fight against Vladimir Critchlow at the

:21:56.:21:59.

weekend, doing a lot of media Bisbee. You can hear the build-up to

:22:00.:22:06.

that fight. He says boxing has got a big problem with doping and that he

:22:07.:22:09.

can tell straightaway is a fighter is cheating just by looking at his

:22:10.:22:14.

physique. His answer is to legalise doping in the sport to make it

:22:15.:22:19.

fairer. As you can imagine, a lot of reaction to that. That is all coming

:22:20.:22:22.

up at 10am. Let's bring you a little bit more on

:22:23.:22:28.

this Russian military aircraft which is being reported has been shot down

:22:29.:22:34.

on the Turkish Syria border by Turkish warplanes. The initial

:22:35.:22:41.

reports came from Russia's Interfax news agency citing their defence

:22:42.:22:44.

ministry as saying one of their plane had crashed in northern Syria

:22:45.:22:49.

and two pilot had ejected. Turkish military officials said Turkish jets

:22:50.:22:52.

shot down the plane after warning Russian pilots that they were

:22:53.:22:57.

violating Turkish airspace. More now from our colleagues who say that

:22:58.:23:01.

Syrian activists had said that at least one of the pilots has been

:23:02.:23:05.

captured and is being held in a mountainous area on the Turkey -

:23:06.:23:12.

Syria border. Russian military helicopters are searching for their

:23:13.:23:17.

pilots from the downed jet. Little bits of information coming in

:23:18.:23:21.

all the time on that, obviously we will bring them to you as soon as we

:23:22.:23:23.

have them. Next this morning, watch what

:23:24.:23:23.

happens when Saturdays singer Frankie, who's been trolled herself

:23:24.:23:25.

and called "fat" on social media, wanted to know what drives someone

:23:26.:23:31.

to send vile messages to strangers. She's been making a film

:23:32.:23:34.

for this programme about social media, and media generally, and the

:23:35.:23:37.

impact it can have on body image. As well as meeting a troll,

:23:38.:23:40.

she also interviewed a national magazine editor

:23:41.:23:42.

about "fat-shaming" articles, and We'll talk to her live after

:23:43.:23:44.

10.30am, but first this is the film It is important for me to look

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my best, because in my job people They expect me to look like Frankie

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from The Saturdays 24/7. I think the minute I don't look

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like that someone is going to In the past,

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especially when I was pregnant and I put on a bit of weight, people were

:24:14.:24:23.

very quick to make comments on Twitter, saying that I was fat

:24:24.:24:27.

and that I'd lost it, what it is. It really dragged me down,

:24:28.:24:32.

something I was already self-conscious about, and

:24:33.:24:36.

the minute someone draws attention What I think of social media,

:24:37.:24:40.

it is a weapon. People pick a platform, like Twitter

:24:41.:24:49.

or Facebook or whatever they want to use, and they launch hate at anyone

:24:50.:24:52.

and everyone they can find. I've been called fat, worthless,

:24:53.:25:01.

ugly. I've been called things

:25:02.:25:09.

like "whale", I've been told I I'm Frankie Bridge

:25:10.:25:11.

and I really wanted to make a film about how social media and

:25:12.:25:34.

the media are affecting body image. I've come

:25:35.:25:37.

along today to meet a great group of people to find out how trolling

:25:38.:25:39.

on social media is affecting them. I think a big,

:25:40.:26:00.

common misconception is that people think body image stuff is just

:26:01.:26:02.

about women, but that is not really People

:26:03.:26:05.

on my Facebook are always putting pictures of someone David Beckham or

:26:06.:26:11.

even Matt Smith or David Tennant. It is a perfectly normal human

:26:12.:26:14.

instinct to want to look People should just accept that

:26:15.:26:21.

and not make bad comments or good There's also a lot of banter

:26:22.:26:25.

which goes on on social media. Sometimes it is almost as if you put

:26:26.:26:30.

it under the umbrella of banter, you A lot

:26:31.:26:34.

of people have done that to me, and But a lot of the time it is not

:26:35.:26:38.

just banter and people have got You found yourself looking at

:26:39.:26:44.

images on pro-ana or thinspiration Yes, it must be when I was

:26:45.:26:49.

about 14 or 15. I was really into fashion so I was

:26:50.:27:04.

reading different weekly magazines. I'd been bullied and picked on

:27:05.:27:08.

and sent messages I went there

:27:09.:27:11.

because I was confused and I was The quickest and easiest option,

:27:12.:27:17.

the only option I seemed to have, I surrounded myself with it and I

:27:18.:27:23.

posted goal weights of 100lb. Fran, you have managed to turn

:27:24.:27:35.

the negativity into positivity. You spend your time posting positive

:27:36.:27:46.

pictures and messages onto When I first put up

:27:47.:27:49.

my first picture, which was a full I had a bit of tummy showing and I

:27:50.:28:07.

felt uncomfortable and I had not properly prepared

:28:08.:28:12.

myself for negative comments. But now I have been able to post

:28:13.:28:15.

things like this with these kind I get a lot of messages

:28:16.:28:21.

from young women, mostly, saying, "You're an inspiration, you're

:28:22.:28:30.

making me feel better about myself." That is the kind of thing

:28:31.:28:33.

which keeps me going. Because if I can show something

:28:34.:28:35.

like that and it makes someone feel good and appreciate

:28:36.:28:38.

the body they've got, it might dull or lessen

:28:39.:28:42.

the negative emotions they've got. I want to find out why people think

:28:43.:28:51.

it's OK to be nasty to people I'm here to talk to

:28:52.:28:54.

a troll to find out why. But for legal reasons I have

:28:55.:28:58.

to interview him anonymously. I want to see why he does what he

:28:59.:29:08.

does and if he can justify himself. But I'm actually really scared

:29:09.:29:12.

because I don't know what he's It was just to get a buzz,

:29:13.:29:15.

and people getting replies Sometimes it does become

:29:16.:29:44.

a competition between trolls. The buzz you say that you get, is

:29:45.:29:57.

that from being horrible to someone It is from getting the retweets

:29:58.:30:07.

and the favourites. Why do you think you enjoy

:30:08.:30:19.

the attention online? Would you be like that to someone

:30:20.:30:23.

in person? I've seen that you've said you

:30:24.:30:25.

would rape someone, and that you Would you say that to someone

:30:26.:30:29.

in person? No.

:30:30.:30:32.

No? So how come you feel it is OK

:30:33.:30:33.

online? Did you never think about how

:30:34.:30:36.

it would make that person feel? No, you don't think

:30:37.:30:47.

about what you're saying. I was bullied all the time

:30:48.:30:50.

at school. How do you feel it is OK

:30:51.:30:58.

for you to do that to someone else? Do you not see that someone of your

:30:59.:31:02.

age saying, " I just don't think", People say you're just acting

:31:03.:31:13.

like a child. Because I look back, it was terrible

:31:14.:31:21.

what I said, so I stopped. Because I know from when people

:31:22.:31:35.

have said things to me... They've never called me

:31:36.:31:38.

a bitch or said they are going to These are just comments about

:31:39.:31:42.

the way I look or my personality or something and that really hurt me,

:31:43.:31:50.

and I'm feeling insecure, when I'm I'm there to be a singer,

:31:51.:31:54.

not there to be a perfect person. It is hard when people say

:31:55.:32:01.

those comments to me. But I can't even imagine how I would

:32:02.:32:06.

have felt if someone had said some And as someone who's actually been

:32:07.:32:09.

bullied do you not see that is just as nasty, even though that is

:32:10.:32:18.

on the internet? That other person could actually

:32:19.:32:22.

hurt themselves Does it make you feel anything,

:32:23.:32:33.

hearing me saying how horrible it is Or me just being honest to you

:32:34.:32:40.

about how I feel Hearing from someone who has been

:32:41.:32:46.

trolled makes me feel terrible. And what

:32:47.:32:52.

the person has gone through. Have you ever apologised to

:32:53.:32:58.

anyone that you said anything to? If I could apologise to

:32:59.:33:00.

the people I've trolled, I would. Negative comments about body

:33:01.:33:07.

image on social media can make you So I'm here to meet someone who is

:33:08.:33:16.

trying to do something about it, a girl called Natasha Devon who is

:33:17.:33:22.

part of the Self-Esteem Team and she is

:33:23.:33:26.

at this school to do a class today. You're creating

:33:27.:33:48.

your own reality based on what you At the time

:33:49.:33:53.

when that is probably most relevant Natasha,

:33:54.:34:04.

how did you think that went? I'm really pleased you

:34:05.:34:08.

found it interesting. And I think you're in

:34:09.:34:15.

for a treat working with them later, because they are really

:34:16.:34:22.

enthusiastic and the questions they I'm quite confident with this lot

:34:23.:34:25.

that they will go away and think about it and carry

:34:26.:34:32.

on practising the tips I gave them. Do you find when you're looking

:34:33.:34:35.

through magazines and things like that, can you look

:34:36.:34:38.

at a picture of someone and think," Yes, I know that is not normal

:34:39.:34:41.

and it's almost impossible to look Do you find yourself

:34:42.:34:46.

following people that you look I know, as a girl, I sit there most

:34:47.:34:52.

nights, saying, "I'm going to bed". And I'm going to go to bed and look

:34:53.:34:58.

at lots of hot people on Instagram and think, "she's got really nice

:34:59.:35:03.

legs, she's got really nice hair". I can find myself the whole

:35:04.:35:17.

time comparing myself to these I know nothing about them,

:35:18.:35:20.

but I obsess over them. Do you find that you look

:35:21.:35:27.

at everyone else's profiles, even girls from school, and think,

:35:28.:35:30.

"she is better than me"? There is a lot of pressure on us

:35:31.:35:33.

today with all the social media. You have to keep on posting to make

:35:34.:35:36.

you seem interesting, it feels like. You have to make your own life look

:35:37.:35:42.

as interesting as everybody else's. And if you don't do it, people are

:35:43.:35:46.

like," you didn't do anything". When you did,

:35:47.:35:50.

but you just didn't want to put it Or maybe having too much fun to

:35:51.:35:53.

be taking photos of yourself. LAUGHTER It is not just social media

:35:54.:35:59.

which is piling on the pressures It is magazines like this and other

:36:00.:36:03.

celebrity magazines with pictures of girls in bikinis and things about

:36:04.:36:09.

diets all over the front cover. I'm here to talk to the editor in

:36:10.:36:12.

chief of Star magazine Lebby Eyres, I'm sitting here looking

:36:13.:36:15.

at the front covers of some of your magazines and a lot of them

:36:16.:36:20.

seem to be about how people look. There is fat

:36:21.:36:24.

in capital letters there! Do you find that stuff like that

:36:25.:36:26.

really helps to sell your magazines? In that instance,

:36:27.:36:29.

that cover you're pointing out, that is the best selling issue we've

:36:30.:36:38.

had so far of Star magazine. I would say that both

:36:39.:36:41.

of those pictures that the girls are posing for worse set up probably

:36:42.:36:47.

with the celebrities themselves. And the story is

:36:48.:36:50.

about an argument they have. People are very quick to call us

:36:51.:36:53.

out on twitter if they think we've gone too far with something or

:36:54.:36:56.

we've been mean about someone. If a celebrity suddenly appears they

:36:57.:37:12.

are looking much skinnier than they If we don't say anything and we just

:37:13.:37:17.

say" wow, they look amazing in that dress", I think we're being

:37:18.:37:25.

irresponsible to our readers because then that overly skinny

:37:26.:37:30.

frame becomes the new normal. I've been airbrushed and everything,

:37:31.:37:32.

so people could say I'm being hypocritical by asking that sort

:37:33.:37:36.

of question. Do you think,

:37:37.:37:39.

because so many pictures are airbrushed now, that seeing the

:37:40.:37:42.

pictures where celebrities aren't, We did start a no airbrushing

:37:43.:37:46.

campaign in the magazine. If we do a shoot with

:37:47.:37:58.

a celebrity we don't airbrush it. Obviously, there are some pictures

:37:59.:38:00.

in the magazine that I don't have total control over, if we do

:38:01.:38:04.

a interview with a celebrity and But actually slimming people down

:38:05.:38:07.

in pictures is something that all After talking to Lebby,

:38:08.:38:15.

the editor of Star magazine, I've realised it will be very hard to get

:38:16.:38:21.

the magazines to change their way. As their biggest selling magazine

:38:22.:38:25.

of the year was the one with the word fat in big capital letters

:38:26.:38:29.

on the front. And two celebrities not

:38:30.:38:33.

looking 100% their best. It's been so interesting,

:38:34.:38:37.

meeting so many people affected by body image either through social

:38:38.:38:41.

media or the media. What is clear to me, though,

:38:42.:38:44.

is that it is a big problem, and it It might be hard to do,

:38:45.:38:48.

but there should be some way that social media sites and the police

:38:49.:38:55.

can shut down accounts quicker And if you want to share that film,

:38:56.:38:57.

you can find it on our programme Shepherds Bush Proof if ever sub it

:38:58.:39:15.

were needed that the best thing to do with a troll is nothing at all.

:39:16.:39:19.

Tweet from Anthony, this looks amazing, we should be strong and

:39:20.:39:23.

stand up to online bullying together. Gareth

:39:24.:39:26.

More now on the the trolls do need beating.

:39:27.:39:45.

shot down a Russian plane. Turkey says the plane violated Turkish air

:39:46.:39:54.

shot down a Russian plane. Turkey were involved in the downing of

:39:55.:39:56.

shot down a Russian plane. Turkey plane. You can see it coming down

:39:57.:40:03.

now. A Turkish military statement says; Moscow meanwhile says, sorry,

:40:04.:40:07.

it can prove the jet had not left Syrian air space. In the last few

:40:08.:40:11.

minutes, our colleagues at BBC Monitoring are reporting

:40:12.:40:13.

minutes, our colleagues at BBC armed opposition groups are claiming

:40:14.:40:14.

to have captured at least one armed opposition groups are claiming

:40:15.:40:19.

pilots, both ejected and Syrian opposition groups are saying they

:40:20.:40:20.

captured at least one of the opposition groups are saying they

:40:21.:40:23.

and that another pilot has been killed.

:40:24.:40:29.

and that another pilot has been According to the Saudi funded TV

:40:30.:40:32.

channel, there are pictures to confirm the killing of the pilot.

:40:33.:40:35.

Much more on that to come. The danger of legal highs -

:40:36.:40:37.

we'll be speaking to a man who became addicted to one

:40:38.:40:42.

legal drug while in prison. The Government has announced that

:40:43.:41:03.

Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland will receive proportionate

:41:04.:41:08.

increases. Norman Smith is at Westminster to

:41:09.:41:12.

increases. Norman Smith is at increase for the NHS. You have to be

:41:13.:41:16.

careful. 24 hours before the Chancellor's Spending Review,

:41:17.:41:19.

numbers will be flying all over the place, these numbers, the ?3.8

:41:20.:41:24.

million is the first instalment of ?8 billion that the Government

:41:25.:41:28.

promised it would give to the NHS during the course of this Parliament

:41:29.:41:33.

to it's a sort of down payment. It will be a big boost, it will deliver

:41:34.:41:43.

something like ?800,000 more operations -- 800,000 more

:41:44.:41:48.

operations, there'll be more diagnostic tests and there'll be

:41:49.:41:52.

more out-patient appointments. It also tells with it another story

:41:53.:41:57.

more out-patient appointments. It and, when the Chancellor and Jeremy

:41:58.:42:01.

Hunt visited a GP surgery in Streatham this

:42:02.:42:02.

Hunt visited a GP surgery in there about the sort of immediate

:42:03.:42:09.

pressures the NHS is under because we know the NHS is expected to have

:42:10.:42:14.

a ?2 billion deficit by the end of this year, something like two thirds

:42:15.:42:20.

of Trusts are in debt. On top of that, of course, we have got the

:42:21.:42:24.

difficulties with the doctors strike looming just around the corner,

:42:25.:42:28.

three days of industrial action pencilled in. We have got the winter

:42:29.:42:32.

pressures coming along and the Government wants to provide cash to

:42:33.:42:37.

ease the way for this seven-day NHS. This extra cash, yes, it provides

:42:38.:42:42.

some benefits, but it's also designed to ease some of the huge

:42:43.:42:48.

pressure now on the NHS. So if the NHS is getting that next

:42:49.:42:52.

year, what will that mean for other Government departments and the

:42:53.:42:55.

funding of them? The short answer is, if there's more cash for the

:42:56.:43:00.

NHS, there's more pain for everyone else, something the Chancellor

:43:01.:43:04.

himself acknowledged this morning, have a listen. It's all part of the

:43:05.:43:09.

NHS's own plan to improve the service it gives to our patients. We

:43:10.:43:13.

have to make savings elsewhere in Government to pay for all this but

:43:14.:43:18.

that goes to show if you have a strong economy, you have a strong

:43:19.:43:22.

NHS and social care system. So more cash for the NHS, other areas are

:43:23.:43:26.

also protected like defence, overseas aid and schools, but it

:43:27.:43:32.

means a big squeeze in some very, very sensitive areas, police numbers

:43:33.:43:35.

could be cut. They were cut by around 17,000 in the last

:43:36.:43:39.

Parliament, Mr Osborne's refused to rule out further cuts to police

:43:40.:43:47.

numbers. How far will he go to ease the pain from cuts in Tax Credits?

:43:48.:43:51.

He might have less cash to do that. Social care too, there are signs

:43:52.:43:54.

that local authorities are going to have to pick up more of the bill for

:43:55.:44:00.

social care, so, you know, on the eve of the Spending Review, we get a

:44:01.:44:04.

big announcement from the Chancellor saying good news on the NHS, but

:44:05.:44:08.

there's another side to this which is there's going to be real pain

:44:09.:44:14.

elsewhere announced tomorrow. Thank you very much Norman. Full

:44:15.:44:19.

coverage of the Autumn Statement here on BBC News. Kevin Pietersen's

:44:20.:44:25.

set up a tournament for underprivileged teenagers. We'll

:44:26.:44:29.

talk to him live after 10. 30. Here is Carol for the latest weather. How

:44:30.:44:33.

is it looking? It's cold for some of us today.

:44:34.:44:37.

Colder than it was for Scotland and Northern Ireland but a wee bit less

:44:38.:44:41.

cold across parts of England and Wales. Have you heard of our

:44:42.:44:46.

weather-watchers club I'll tell you about it, it's something that

:44:47.:44:50.

anybody can join in with and we invite anybody that is a member of

:44:51.:44:54.

the club to send in pictures of where they are. For example, this

:44:55.:44:58.

picture was taken tracking storm Abigail and so was the next one I'm

:44:59.:45:02.

going to show you. They are from different parts of the condition

:45:03.:45:10.

tri. -- country. We have thousands of members

:45:11.:45:13.

already, extending from the Channel Islands to Shetland. We had storm

:45:14.:45:18.

Barney, so you can see some of the damage from him. These pictures came

:45:19.:45:24.

in fairly instantly to us. A similar one, huge waves in the Isle of Wight

:45:25.:45:28.

and, more recently at the weekend, this picture was taken as the

:45:29.:45:31.

temperature dropped low enough for the rain to turn to snow. Here are

:45:32.:45:36.

the after-effects as well in Derbyshire.

:45:37.:45:40.

Anybody can join in this, just go online and you can add the weather

:45:41.:45:44.

where you are with your weather picture if you want or you can put

:45:45.:45:48.

in a symbol like this one saying it's sunny where I am. If you have a

:45:49.:45:54.

weather station in your garden, which I am sure you do, then add

:45:55.:46:02.

details there. I don't actually. It's a now-cast, not replacing the

:46:03.:46:09.

forecast, but it's a great idea. How is it today? Today not too bad for

:46:10.:46:14.

some of us. If you are heading out, make sure you bring your brolly. We

:46:15.:46:19.

have some blustery showers. Some of us will see some sunshine, but not

:46:20.:46:24.

all of us. The back edge of the rain is pushing away. You can see a

:46:25.:46:28.

plethora of showers across many other parts of the UK. Through the

:46:29.:46:32.

morning, we'll continue to see the rain move away. The gusty winds we

:46:33.:46:38.

have had across the English Channel will be easing. A lot of showers in

:46:39.:46:43.

the north and west. The east seeing something drier and brighter with

:46:44.:46:48.

sunny spells and the odd occasional showers coming through the

:46:49.:46:50.

afternoon. Picking up the forecast, you can see the extent of the cloud

:46:51.:46:55.

cover. One or two showers, some brighter spells but drifting across

:46:56.:46:59.

the southern counties, more cloud around, particularly so in

:47:00.:47:01.

south-west England where you could catch a shower. Showers on and off

:47:02.:47:07.

through the day in Northern Ireland and north-west England. There'll be

:47:08.:47:17.

showers in western Scotland. Most of them however will be in the east of

:47:18.:47:21.

Scotland. The chilly wind will mean more

:47:22.:47:27.

showers pack inland. Cold enough for a touch of frost,

:47:28.:47:31.

but we are not expecting frost in the west with all the cloud and

:47:32.:47:36.

wind. Tomorrow we start off on not a bad note in the east. We will have a

:47:37.:47:45.

lot of showers coming in from the west. Anywhere from western Scotland

:47:46.:47:49.

down towards the Isle of Wight and north-west of that where you can

:47:50.:47:52.

expect the cloud, drizzle and showers. In the east, dry with

:47:53.:47:57.

plenty of sunshine. We could catch some showers in north-east Scotland

:47:58.:48:01.

and also the north coast of Norfolk. In the east, despite the sunshine,

:48:02.:48:04.

it will feel cold in the west because of the wind. As we head on

:48:05.:48:09.

into Thursday, the cloud that was in the west on Wednesday moves towards

:48:10.:48:12.

the east so it will be a fairly cloudy day for the bulk of the

:48:13.:48:22.

British Isles. Not how the temperatures are slowly starting to

:48:23.:48:27.

pick up. As we head on into Friday, we are looking still at another

:48:28.:48:32.

weather front coming in. That will introduce wet and windy weather,

:48:33.:48:35.

slipping southwards and behind it, it's going to turn much colder into

:48:36.:48:41.

the weekend. We'll say hello to gales for some of

:48:42.:48:43.

us once again. Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:48:44.:48:47.

welcome to the programme. Our Russian warplane is shot down by

:48:48.:49:01.

Turkish fighter jets over Turkey's border with Syria. We will be live

:49:02.:49:06.

with the latest in four minutes. Also, watch what happens when we

:49:07.:49:11.

speak to Frankie Bridge, the victim of online abuse, to confront a

:49:12.:49:13.

troll. So, why did you? Because I get a

:49:14.:49:22.

buzz. Getting replies from the people I am trolling, the favourite

:49:23.:49:28.

and retweets. People joining in. Watch the full film on our programme

:49:29.:49:34.

page. We will speak to Frankie Bridge lives after 10:30am. Plus,

:49:35.:49:41.

warnings that legal highs are leading to an increase in violence

:49:42.:49:45.

in prisons. I wanted to hurt somebody all the time, I felt I

:49:46.:49:49.

wanted to harm myself, I just did not feel a human being.

:49:50.:50:01.

Turkey says it's shot down a military jet that violated

:50:02.:50:05.

Russia says the downed plane is one of

:50:06.:50:07.

its Sukhoi Su-24s, but it was shot down from the ground over Syria.

:50:08.:50:26.

Russian military helicopters are searching for the pilots,

:50:27.:50:28.

Police in Paris are examining what's thought to be

:50:29.:50:31.

an explosives belt which may have been dumped by a terror suspect who

:50:32.:50:35.

It was found among rubbish close to where a mobile phone used by the key

:50:36.:50:40.

suspect, Salah Abdeslam, was traced on the night of the killings.

:50:41.:50:42.

He's now thought to be in Belgium, which remains under lockdown.

:50:43.:50:45.

Residents in Brussels have told this programme

:50:46.:50:47.

We just stay at home and we wait. If we don't have to go outside, we

:50:48.:50:53.

prefer to stay inside to avoid any risk. Obviously I'm a bit shocked.

:50:54.:51:01.

Saturday, in front of my apartment, there were police cars, a black

:51:02.:51:10.

car, men with machine guns. We just keep on going, we are

:51:11.:51:14.

car, men with machine guns. We just ever. I have a 14-year-old

:51:15.:51:16.

daughter, she has to go on the Metro, she has to go, she has to go

:51:17.:51:20.

to school. And I tell her, don't panic about the terrorists, but be

:51:21.:51:25.

panicked about panic, because they want to scare us.

:51:26.:51:29.

The Children's Commissioner for England says 85% of cases of child

:51:30.:51:32.

A study found that while 50,000 children were

:51:33.:51:50.

identified as being abused over a two-year period, the true figure was

:51:51.:51:53.

Police searching for a missing Sheffield student,

:51:54.:51:56.

Caroline Everest, have found a woman's body in a river.

:51:57.:51:59.

18-year-old Caroline Everest was last seen in a nightclub in the

:52:00.:52:03.

city. The body, yet to be formally identified, was discovered in a

:52:04.:52:05.

river in the early hours of this morning. Her family have been

:52:06.:52:06.

informed. The NHS in England is to receive

:52:07.:52:06.

an extra ?3.8 billion Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland

:52:07.:52:09.

will receive proportionate increases but it's up to them

:52:10.:52:12.

whether they spend it on health. EasyJet has announced that it is

:52:13.:52:26.

cancelling all its flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh

:52:27.:52:28.

until January 6th. It follows the crash of a Russian

:52:29.:52:30.

airliner last month, believed to Monarch

:52:31.:52:33.

and British airways are stopping Let's catch up with all

:52:34.:52:36.

the sport now and join Olly. We'll show you last night's goal

:52:37.:52:39.

in the Premier League in just a moment, but it's the return

:52:40.:52:42.

of the Champions League tonight, English clubs have hardly lit up

:52:43.:52:48.

Europe's elite club competition. Arsenal have an incredible record,

:52:49.:52:50.

ever-presents in the knockout-stage for the past 12

:52:51.:52:52.

years, but even a win against Dinamo Zagreb tonight might not be enough

:52:53.:52:55.

to get them out of the group. For all their woes

:52:56.:52:58.

on the home-front, Chelsea could qualify tonight, they are in Haifa,

:52:59.:53:06.

playing Maccabi Tel Aviv. Conor Mcnamamra sent us this

:53:07.:53:08.

in the last few minutes Jose Mourinho is pleased that his

:53:09.:53:15.

full Chelsea squad have made this trip for what is now an important

:53:16.:53:20.

Champions League games at Chelsea. Mourinho had a swipe yesterday in

:53:21.:53:24.

the press conference at former Chelsea defender Graeme Bisson, who

:53:25.:53:28.

has been critical of Mourinho this season. But he made reference to

:53:29.:53:32.

2001, the last time Chelsea played in Israel, in the immediate

:53:33.:53:36.

aftermath of terrorist attacks, and low so was one of six players who

:53:37.:53:41.

decided not to make the trip to Israel for security reasons.

:53:42.:53:44.

Mourinho very much pleased that the full squad have come this time

:53:45.:53:47.

around. Realistically a better chance of silverware in the

:53:48.:53:49.

Champions League for Chelsea this season than the domestic league. He

:53:50.:53:56.

made reference to the fact it has not been the greatest system that by

:53:57.:54:01.

season on the home front but teams can have a good season in Europe.

:54:02.:54:06.

There is high alert as usual in Israel but no extra facilities put

:54:07.:54:10.

in place for the game. Chelsea left London 24 hours earlier than they

:54:11.:54:14.

normally would, not so much for security reasons but due to the

:54:15.:54:19.

length of the flight. Mourinho wanted them to have the extra time

:54:20.:54:22.

to stretch their legs before kick-off.

:54:23.:54:26.

Looks lovely there this morning. Could be gloomy in North London this

:54:27.:54:29.

evening. Arsenal third in their Champions League group and in

:54:30.:54:32.

serious danger of failing to make it through to the knockout stages. They

:54:33.:54:38.

face dynamos I grabbed. There could be a needle because Arsenal lost 2-1

:54:39.:54:43.

in Croatia to them. After that, aspiration player failed a doping

:54:44.:54:47.

test. Arsene Wenger feels Uefa have been far too soft on drugs offences

:54:48.:54:52.

and perhaps the result should have been overturned. To the match

:54:53.:54:56.

itself, they have to win but even if they do, they rely on other results

:54:57.:54:59.

to go their way. We want to win our game, anyway. It

:55:00.:55:04.

is true that we need a positive result from Bayern, but that only

:55:05.:55:10.

has an impact if we win, so let's focus on what we can do.

:55:11.:55:14.

Sunderland are on the up, slowly - they are now 18th in the

:55:15.:55:19.

Jermaine Defoe got the winner in the last ten minutes at Selhurst Park

:55:20.:55:22.

pouncing on some very poor defending from Crystal Palace's Scott Dann.

:55:23.:55:25.

Sunderland are now a point off safety.

:55:26.:55:28.

There's a world title fight coming up at the weekend and

:55:29.:55:31.

Great Britain's Tyson Fury, who is challenging Wladimir Klitschko for

:55:32.:55:33.

the World Heavyweight title, says that boxing has got "a big doping

:55:34.:55:39.

problem", and that the easist solution would be to legalise it.

:55:40.:55:44.

I think it would be more fair, because you have got people taking

:55:45.:55:51.

drugs and when you face a man who is not taking drugs, it becomes unfair,

:55:52.:55:55.

it is a disadvantage. But if everyone was taking drugs, then it

:55:56.:55:58.

would be fair, I think. In response, the

:55:59.:56:01.

British Boxing Board of Control says Fury's comments are simply wrong

:56:02.:56:03.

and they are working as hard as any That's all the sport for now,

:56:04.:56:06.

I'll be back with the headlines Hello, thank you

:56:07.:56:12.

for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme

:56:13.:56:16.

if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:56:17.:56:18.

Channel until 11am this morning. We will be bringing you the latest

:56:19.:56:27.

breaking news and sport, and an interview with controversial cricket

:56:28.:56:29.

captain Kevin Pietersen after 10:30am. We will also speak to The

:56:30.:56:38.

Saturdays single Frankie Bridge, who confronted a troll about social

:56:39.:56:43.

media messages. Thank you for your thoughts.

:56:44.:56:45.

One says, trolls are obviously people with a problem, I wonder how

:56:46.:56:51.

perfect they are. This tweet, it is sad that Frankie

:56:52.:56:56.

Bridge's comments that she was feeling insecure about her pregnant

:56:57.:57:01.

body before comment about being fat while pregnant.

:57:02.:57:05.

This e-mail, being called fact, etc, relates not only to young people but

:57:06.:57:10.

everyone. I am a professional singer and when performing on a number of

:57:11.:57:13.

occasions people have come to me and said, haven't you got fat, you have

:57:14.:57:16.

put weight on, you look different. Charming!

:57:17.:57:20.

Phoebe has tweeted, great to see women speaking up, I have watched

:57:21.:57:25.

from Hong Kong where body shaving is so common that people think it is

:57:26.:57:28.

OK. Rose tweets, people who call are

:57:29.:57:31.

cowards. This from Chuck, you have given the

:57:32.:57:35.

troll exactly what he wanted, some attention. I hope the interview does

:57:36.:57:39.

not give an incentive to others. Thank you for those.

:57:40.:57:41.

Your contributions to this programme and your expertise really is key.

:57:42.:57:43.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:57:44.:57:47.

And you can watch the programme online wherever you

:57:48.:57:49.

are via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria,

:57:50.:57:51.

and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

:57:52.:57:54.

by going to 'add topics' and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.

:57:55.:58:00.

Let's bring you more on the breaking news from Turkey, where it Turkish

:58:01.:58:07.

fighter jets have shot down a Russian warplane.

:58:08.:58:09.

Officials in Ankara say it strayed into Turkish airspace and ignored

:58:10.:58:11.

Video footage shows the plane, a Sukhoi 24, on fire

:58:12.:58:19.

Let's have a look at these pictures now, that is after the plane crashed

:58:20.:58:35.

into a mountainous area. Defence officials

:58:36.:58:37.

in Moscow say the two pilots One report says one of them is in

:58:38.:58:39.

the custody of Turkmen forces in They are ethnic Turks who don't

:58:40.:58:53.

support so-called Islamic State or President Assad of Syria. The other

:58:54.:58:58.

pilot has been killed, according to a Saudi funded TV channel.

:58:59.:59:01.

Russia has denied that the plane had crossed into Turkish airspace.

:59:02.:59:05.

It says it was shot down from the ground, not by fighter jets.

:59:06.:59:11.

Let's talk to our reporter in Istanbul, Turkey saying one thing,

:59:12.:59:18.

Russia said another. Give us more detail about what Turkish officials

:59:19.:59:21.

are saying? Turkish officials are saying one

:59:22.:59:25.

thing, another Turkish official is saying about as well, so there are

:59:26.:59:30.

conflicting accounts of what has actually happened. Initially,

:59:31.:59:32.

Turkish presidential sources were saying that a Russian jet was downed

:59:33.:59:40.

by Turkish military fighter jets, but then another account of what

:59:41.:59:46.

happened took place and Turkish presidential sources are saying it

:59:47.:59:50.

could have been a Russian jet, but they are not being very clear on

:59:51.:59:55.

that. It could maybe be a Russian jet, maybe not. That is what Russian

:59:56.:00:00.

defence ministry sources are saying. They are investigating and saying

:00:01.:00:04.

they think it could be a Russian jet. Turkish military officials are

:00:05.:00:09.

saying that this particular jet was warned over ten times in five

:00:10.:00:14.

minutes before the decision to shut down -- to shoot down the plane was

:00:15.:00:20.

taken. They are saying that this jet had actually violated Turkish

:00:21.:00:23.

airspace, was warned several times, but the warnings were not adhere

:00:24.:00:29.

to, and it was shot down because of the rules of engagement. Earlier

:00:30.:00:33.

this week, the Turkish Prime Minister had warned Russia about its

:00:34.:00:46.

military incursions on Turkmens, the Prime Minister was saying that

:00:47.:00:51.

Russian air strikes were targeting the Turkmen minority in Syria,

:00:52.:00:58.

rather than the Islamic State targets, for instance. The Turkmen

:00:59.:01:01.

minority is very crucial for the Turkish Government, because the

:01:02.:01:07.

Turkmen are ethnically close to the Turkish people, and that was a red

:01:08.:01:10.

line for the Turkish Government. There were several warnings made as

:01:11.:01:15.

such, and this warning came just this week. The Russian ambassador

:01:16.:01:19.

was summoned to the Foreign Ministry for instance, and the Turkish

:01:20.:01:25.

Government has said they would take necessary precautions and measures

:01:26.:01:31.

if Turkish airspace, for instance, was violated, and that is what has

:01:32.:01:36.

happened today. Reports from the border area are suggesting that the

:01:37.:01:42.

jet was downed just over where a refugee camp was present, and this

:01:43.:01:52.

refugee camp was sheltering Turkmen refugees fleeing the Russian air

:01:53.:01:56.

strikes and fleeing the clashes with Assad forces. We have to remember

:01:57.:02:01.

that Turkmen minorities are an opposition group, opposing the Assad

:02:02.:02:05.

forces, the Assad regime, and opposing the Islamic State militants

:02:06.:02:10.

as well. So, they were taking shelter in this refugee camp, and

:02:11.:02:15.

just over this refugee camp, it seems, this jet was downed.

:02:16.:02:20.

Recently, this week, Turkey opened its borders for the Turkmen refugees

:02:21.:02:26.

fleeing the clashes and Russian air strikes and over 1500 Turkmen were

:02:27.:02:31.

welcomed in Turkey, so there was actually a sort of refugee crisis

:02:32.:02:34.

just at the border building up recently this week, and I did

:02:35.:02:42.

probably have a military crisis building up at its border as well.

:02:43.:02:47.

What is happening could be very significant, especially regarding

:02:48.:02:50.

what the fate of these two pilots are. The reports claim that they had

:02:51.:03:01.

objected -- ejected from the planes, one Turkish opposition member saying

:03:02.:03:04.

they captured one of the pilots but these are not verified reports. The

:03:05.:03:10.

fate of the pilots will be crucial, as to whether the tension between

:03:11.:03:14.

Turkey and Russia will escalate or not.

:03:15.:03:18.

Thank you very much. Our defence correspondent is with us

:03:19.:03:23.

in the studio. How serious is it if one country shoots down another

:03:24.:03:27.

country's played? It is very serious, there is a

:03:28.:03:32.

history here, Turkey has shot down two Syrian aircraft, also possibly a

:03:33.:03:37.

helicopter and a drone that it said was violated its airspace. The fear

:03:38.:03:41.

when Russia intervened in the campaign was that it might be a

:03:42.:03:45.

Russian jet involved in this way, and it seems to have happened, it is

:03:46.:03:49.

irrelevant whether it was shot down by ground fire or a Turkish jet. The

:03:50.:03:53.

difficulty of course is that there are lots of questions, still. Was

:03:54.:03:58.

the Russian jet in Syrian airspace, as the Russians insist, or had it

:03:59.:04:04.

straight into Turkish airspace? Is it simple to stray into somebody

:04:05.:04:09.

else's airspace? It is it simple to stray into somebody else's

:04:10.:04:14.

airspace? It despite arises, was it necessary for the Turks to shoot the

:04:15.:04:17.

aircraft down? They could have intercepted it,

:04:18.:04:24.

there was no indication, yet, that anybody had dropped bombs on Turkish

:04:25.:04:28.

territory. But there is the back story there, you heard from my

:04:29.:04:31.

colleague a moment ago, there is the minority in northern Syria which the

:04:32.:04:38.

Turkish Government feels affinity for, which may have a key role in

:04:39.:04:44.

any buffer zone established. That group has been under air attack in

:04:45.:04:49.

recent days and weeks, the Syrian Government forces, they are opposed

:04:50.:04:53.

to the Syrian Government, the Syrian Government forces trying to push in

:04:54.:04:56.

towards the border, being backed up by Russian air power. So clearly the

:04:57.:05:01.

Turks have been annoyed by that, they have made representations to

:05:02.:05:05.

Moscow about that. Maybe they decided to draw a line, who knows?

:05:06.:05:10.

But it is not a very helpful episode. It really does -, we have

:05:11.:05:17.

this discussion with the Americans, the Russians, about what they call

:05:18.:05:19.

the conflict in, not straying into each other's operations. The real

:05:20.:05:27.

problem, as many people bought, rests with the Syrian - Turkish

:05:28.:05:31.

border airspace, and sure enough that has caused this incident today.

:05:32.:05:38.

A Kremlin spokesman has said; a very serious incident but too early to

:05:39.:05:43.

draw conclusions about the circumstances. Absolutely, and I

:05:44.:05:47.

think also another crucial factor will be the fate of the crew. The

:05:48.:05:53.

jet is a strike aircraft, it has two-man crew, as you heard, and

:05:54.:05:58.

reports that parachutes were seen, possibly one of the crew is in the

:05:59.:06:01.

hands of one of the militia groups on the ground in Turkey.

:06:02.:06:04.

hands of one of the militia groups were actually to be dead, lost,

:06:05.:06:10.

handed over perhaps to some unpleasant organisation or whatever,

:06:11.:06:13.

clearly that would compound the problem. If the Russians were able

:06:14.:06:16.

to get their crew back safely, assuming that the two of them are

:06:17.:06:20.

actually alive, clearly that would go some way to mitigate the drama.

:06:21.:06:27.

Thank you very much. This just in, this is being reported by Reuters

:06:28.:06:30.

about something that is happening in Libya. A car bomb has killed five

:06:31.:06:36.

guards, it's being reported, at a checkpoint in Tripoli.

:06:37.:06:45.

That is all we know at the moment. That is being reported by Reuters.

:06:46.:06:48.

More on that to come. Now later this week a cricket

:06:49.:06:53.

tournament for underprivileged teenagers will get underway

:06:54.:06:56.

in the United Arab Emirates. There is a warning so-called legal

:06:57.:07:07.

highs are leading to violence in prisons. A drugs charity is

:07:08.:07:10.

concerned about the effects of the drugs and the gangs connected to

:07:11.:07:15.

dealing. The charity which helps prisoners addicted to drugs says in

:07:16.:07:19.

the past year, it's seen a seven-fold increase in the number of

:07:20.:07:25.

people coming to it for help with new psychoactive substances like

:07:26.:07:30.

Spice. Radio 1 Newsbeat's Jim Connolly has been speaking to one

:07:31.:07:37.

person who was addicted to Spice. I'm Dave, I'm 29, originally from

:07:38.:07:43.

London, I'm now in Hull, welcome to the Bridges in Hull, a residential

:07:44.:07:52.

centre. Went to prison in 2012, I was a drug addict, alcoholic. I went

:07:53.:07:58.

in and I thought I was going to be able to get away from drink and

:07:59.:08:03.

drugs, stuff like that. When I went into prison, I was still smoking

:08:04.:08:10.

cannabis. Then I came into this connection with legal highs, Spice.

:08:11.:08:16.

It's known as prison crack, green crack, whatever you want to call it

:08:17.:08:21.

really. It's so addictive that I found it more addictive to me than

:08:22.:08:26.

what I did when I was on crack from the age of 14. You can get it

:08:27.:08:30.

anywhere. You can get that more than what you can your dinner! You always

:08:31.:08:35.

know where the dinners are, but there's so much of it that you don't

:08:36.:08:40.

know where it's coming from. There's a lot of fights going on, people

:08:41.:08:46.

getting in debt for Spice, people liking like they are having heart

:08:47.:08:54.

attacks on it. People are vomiting, they're passing through bales and

:08:55.:08:59.

it's just so addictive. Once you get it in your system, you can't stop.

:09:00.:09:08.

Let's talk to Dan Rolfe who's spent in total 27 years in jail and was

:09:09.:09:12.

released last December. He swapped crack cocaine and heroin inside for

:09:13.:09:17.

the legal high, Spice. During his last prison sentence for commercial

:09:18.:09:22.

burglary that happened. It's believed Spice is a at pandemic

:09:23.:09:31.

levels in prison. Dan, tell us about taking spice and how you got it when

:09:32.:09:37.

inside? It literally came into my path the moment I walked in the

:09:38.:09:41.

prison. There is so much of it in there that, you know, the people

:09:42.:09:48.

selling it are always looking for new customers because there's so

:09:49.:09:52.

much of it. Never known anything like it. Coming in from the visitors

:09:53.:09:58.

or people who work? The majority get thrown over the wall because it's so

:09:59.:10:02.

cheap to buy. If they lose two thirds of it, they are still making

:10:03.:10:06.

five times what they paid, you know. The money in it is unbelievable. How

:10:07.:10:11.

do you pay for it when you're inside? You get family and friends

:10:12.:10:18.

to put money in bank accounts, tattooing, other services, you know.

:10:19.:10:24.

Why did you swap to Spice? Mainly because it doesn't show up on urine

:10:25.:10:28.

tests so I didn't lose any time on it. I lost a lot of time in the past

:10:29.:10:33.

through positive tests. What effect would you say it has on inmates? The

:10:34.:10:39.

psychosis is the worst thing, people passing out, falling down stairs and

:10:40.:10:44.

people getting their hands shut in doors over like ?50 quid because the

:10:45.:10:50.

violence makes sure people pay. So the violence emanates from the fact

:10:51.:10:54.

that people need to be paid for delivering the Spice to fellow

:10:55.:10:57.

inmates, rather than the effect of the drug on someone making them

:10:58.:11:04.

violent? It depends because I know people with mental health issues and

:11:05.:11:09.

when they take Spice, they become very violent, antisocial, you know,

:11:10.:11:13.

it depends on the chemical make-up. How much do you think you took? Oh,

:11:14.:11:22.

I smoke at least two or three grammes a day, every day. What

:11:23.:11:28.

effect did it have on you? I don't know, it makes me very antisocial.

:11:29.:11:36.

Very guarded, don't trust nobody, paranoia. And now do, you take it

:11:37.:11:41.

now you're on the outside? No, I haven't touched anything in a long

:11:42.:11:47.

time now. I went through the drug programme in prison. We'll talk to

:11:48.:11:54.

Mike now. You say this is at pandemic proportions? Yes, the

:11:55.:11:58.

prisons are flooded with it at the moment. We are hearing these

:11:59.:12:02.

problems, we have the same problems in Scotland, Ireland, private and

:12:03.:12:06.

public sector jails. If people are chubbing it over the walls, that's

:12:07.:12:09.

not that difficult to pick up from a prison officer's point of view is

:12:10.:12:13.

it? No, you are right, but the resources are being cut drastically,

:12:14.:12:19.

we have had year on year budget cuts, major efficiencies, you need

:12:20.:12:23.

to put the resource in to manage the new policies. What effect is it

:12:24.:12:28.

having on people in jail and why should law-abiding citizens be

:12:29.:12:31.

bothered if inmates are taking Spice? They should be bothered

:12:32.:12:35.

because it's stopping people being able to rehabilitate effectively. By

:12:36.:12:40.

the use of spice, they are creating a violent atmosphere in prison,

:12:41.:12:45.

creating gangs, there is a massive trade of illegal substances coming

:12:46.:12:48.

into prison so that is creating a more criminality within a prison

:12:49.:12:53.

environment and that's not helping anyone to rehabilitate, so when

:12:54.:12:58.

getting released, they are keeping these addictions. Dan is out and

:12:59.:13:02.

it's better for him not to be in jail in terms of that addiction and

:13:03.:13:06.

the effect it's having on him and others? Of course and it's cheaper

:13:07.:13:10.

to pick the substances up in the outside world than in prisons, it's

:13:11.:13:14.

up to 18 times the cost it is on the street Valin side a prison. Right.

:13:15.:13:19.

Mike, the effect of spice on people, Dan's just given us an insight, what

:13:20.:13:25.

would you say? I back up what Dan is saying, we are seeing a lot more

:13:26.:13:32.

drugs in prisons and also a lot more violent incidents or emergency

:13:33.:13:35.

hospital admissions relating to the use of spice so it's grown in our

:13:36.:13:39.

experience about six or seven fold in the last year. OK. I think it's

:13:40.:13:45.

worth saying what is K spice? It's not an easy answer, it first came

:13:46.:13:50.

into prison as something that was chemical constituents that mimic the

:13:51.:13:55.

effects of strong cannabis so it's a colourless liquid sprayed on plant

:13:56.:13:59.

material but it's now a generic name to call for anything that's chemical

:14:00.:14:02.

in that prison because it's that vibrant a market. In terms of the

:14:03.:14:08.

solution, Mike from the Prison Officers' Association, are you

:14:09.:14:11.

saying we need more money and prison officers? Yes, that is part of the

:14:12.:14:14.

solution, but we also need to get the message out to prisoners of the

:14:15.:14:21.

harmful effects of Spice. Spice by the probation report released last

:14:22.:14:25.

harmful effects of Spice. Spice by year says 19 deaths were

:14:26.:14:26.

harmful effects of Spice. Spice by with it. I'm aware of

:14:27.:14:28.

incidents, colleagues that have been retired as a result of assaults from

:14:29.:14:34.

inmates that have become paranoid whilst using Spice

:14:35.:14:36.

inmates that have become paranoid many prisoners out to hospital. So

:14:37.:14:40.

it's not just the prison, it's the wider community, the prison

:14:41.:14:45.

officers, when a prisoner has been using Spice in prison, we are having

:14:46.:14:48.

to take those people out into hospitals, creating a massive cost

:14:49.:14:51.

to wider society. Thank you, gentlemen.

:14:52.:14:58.

Let's bring you more on the news that Turkey says it shot down a

:14:59.:15:03.

Russian military jet that violated its airspace. This is from Moscow,

:15:04.:15:08.

it is being reported on Reuters, President Putin's spokesman has

:15:09.:15:11.

called the downing of the Russian warplanes a very serious incident,

:15:12.:15:16.

but said it was too early to talk and conclusions. Presumably that is

:15:17.:15:19.

to do with the circumstances of the downing of the plane. Quote, it is

:15:20.:15:23.

impossible to say something without having full information, says

:15:24.:15:29.

President Putin's spokesperson. In Ankara, meanwhile, they say that

:15:30.:15:33.

Turkish fighter jets shot down the Russian warplanes near the Syrian

:15:34.:15:38.

border after repeatedly warning it after it violated its airspace. They

:15:39.:15:43.

say they gave the pilots ten warnings, ten opportunities to get

:15:44.:15:47.

out of Turkish space. The Russian defence Ministry said, though, that

:15:48.:15:52.

they can prove it plane had not strayed into Turkish airspace.

:15:53.:15:55.

Meanwhile, the fate of the two pilots not yet known at the moment.

:15:56.:16:00.

It is being reported on one TV channel in Saudi Arabia that one has

:16:01.:16:03.

died, and it is being reported elsewhere that one pilot is in

:16:04.:16:08.

captivity in the mountainous area of the - Syria border.

:16:09.:16:15.

More as we get it, obviously -- the Turkey - Syria border.

:16:16.:16:18.

Coming up, watch what happens when The Saturdays singer Frankie Bridge

:16:19.:16:24.

confronts a troll. She herself has been a victim of online abuse and

:16:25.:16:27.

speaks to a troll about why he insults complete strangers.

:16:28.:16:31.

Turkey says it's shot down a military jet that violated

:16:32.:16:37.

Russia says the downed plane is one of

:16:38.:16:43.

its Sukhoi Su-24s, but it was shot down from the ground over Syria.

:16:44.:16:46.

Russian military helicopters are searching for the pilots,

:16:47.:16:48.

One is reported dead, another is reported captured by Syrian rebels.

:16:49.:16:57.

Forensic experts in Paris are examining what's thought to be

:16:58.:17:03.

decided not to blow himself up. Abdeslam in Belgium, which remains

:17:04.:17:16.

under lockdown. Residents in Brussels have told us how they are

:17:17.:17:18.

affected. We just stay at home, and we wait.

:17:19.:17:22.

If we don't We just stay at home, and we wait.

:17:23.:17:26.

preferred to stay inside to avoid any risk. Obviously I'm a bit

:17:27.:17:33.

shocked will stop Saturday, in front of my apartment, there were police,

:17:34.:17:40.

a black car with big men with machine guns. We just keep on going.

:17:41.:17:46.

We are stronger than ever. I have a 14-year-old daughter, she has to go

:17:47.:17:51.

on the Metro, she has to go. She has to go to school, and I tell her,

:17:52.:17:57.

don't panic about a terrorist, but be panicked about panic, because

:17:58.:17:58.

they want to scare us. The Children's Commissioner for

:17:59.:18:01.

England says 85% of cases of child A study found that while 50,000

:18:02.:18:03.

children were identified as being abused over a two-year

:18:04.:18:08.

period, the true figure was more Police searching for a student who

:18:09.:18:11.

went missing in Sheffield on Sunday 18-year-old Caroline Everest was

:18:12.:18:17.

last seen in a nightclub The body, which is yet to be

:18:18.:18:22.

formally identified, was discovered in a river

:18:23.:18:27.

in the early hours of this morning. EasyJet has announced that it is

:18:28.:18:30.

cancelling all its flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh

:18:31.:18:40.

until January 6th. It follows the crash of a Russian

:18:41.:18:42.

airliner last month, believed to Monarch

:18:43.:18:45.

and British Airways are stopping Those are the news headlines, now

:18:46.:18:57.

for the rest of the sport. These are the headlines this

:18:58.:19:00.

morning, a big night for the English teams in the Champions League.

:19:01.:19:04.

Arsenal could fail to reach the knockout stage for the first time in

:19:05.:19:08.

13 years even if they beat Dinamo Zagreb at home.

:19:09.:19:11.

Chelsea are in Israel, despite their poor form in the Premier League

:19:12.:19:15.

victory for Jose Mourinho's side could see them progress to the last

:19:16.:19:18.

16. Sunderland are up to a deep in the

:19:19.:19:21.

Premier League after their first away win of the season. Jermain

:19:22.:19:27.

Defoe got the only goal of the game in the last ten minutes against

:19:28.:19:32.

Crystal Palace. Sunderland now one point of safety.

:19:33.:19:37.

David Habel returned to the rink in January, he says he wants to claim

:19:38.:19:43.

back his title. It is his first fighting over three years.

:19:44.:19:47.

Tyson Fury, you is challenging Vladimir Critchlow for the world

:19:48.:19:52.

heavyweight title next weekend, says boxing has a big doping problem and

:19:53.:19:56.

it may be fairer to legalise it. The British boxing board of control says

:19:57.:20:00.

the comments are unfounded and their doping controls are just as tight as

:20:01.:20:03.

any other sport. Those are the sports headlines this

:20:04.:20:04.

morning. Thank you.

:20:05.:20:13.

As we have reported, a Russian fighter jet has been downed by

:20:14.:20:18.

Turkey's forces on the border with Syria.

:20:19.:20:20.

Let's get the latest from Moscow and our correspondent there

:20:21.:20:23.

Tell us what the Russians are claiming? The Russian defence

:20:24.:20:30.

ministry put out a statement fairly quickly saying that, yes, a Russian

:20:31.:20:41.

plane, a macro -- Sukhoi Su-24 jet, had come down, but rather than

:20:42.:20:45.

confirming it had been shot down by Turkish fighter jets, they said it

:20:46.:20:48.

had apparently been shot down from the ground, apparently saying rebel

:20:49.:20:53.

forces in Syria had brought down the plane.

:20:54.:20:55.

We have had no further clarification of that since the official statement

:20:56.:20:58.

but we understand from the Russian defence Ministry that they claim

:20:59.:21:07.

they did not violate the Turkish border, that they were flying at

:21:08.:21:11.

6000 metres and the Russians said both pilots did reject, but they

:21:12.:21:14.

don't know what happened to them after that. It is a statement which

:21:15.:21:18.

directly contradicts what the Turks have been saying, which is that two

:21:19.:21:22.

of their fighter jets warned this Russian plane ten times within some

:21:23.:21:27.

minutes that they had violated Turkish airspace and that then the

:21:28.:21:30.

plane was shot down under what Turkey says are the rules of

:21:31.:21:35.

engagement. An extremely delicate situation, an extremely difficult

:21:36.:21:38.

situation for the politicians to handle.

:21:39.:21:43.

Thank you very much. Let's talk to our security

:21:44.:21:47.

correspondent, Frank Gardner. What do you make of this?

:21:48.:21:51.

There is a massive gap between the two versions of the story. Either

:21:52.:21:55.

Ankara is wrong or Moscow is wrong, there is no common ground. If it was

:21:56.:22:00.

shot down at 6000 metres, that is higher than any surface to air

:22:01.:22:06.

missile that the rebels are known to control in that part of Syria, which

:22:07.:22:14.

is a bit odd. Turkey says that it warned the plane ten times in five

:22:15.:22:19.

minutes to leave its territory. That has not been corroborated by the

:22:20.:22:24.

Russians. This is the last thing that the coalition needs in trying

:22:25.:22:29.

to fight so-called Islamic state. President Hollande is seen President

:22:30.:22:33.

Putin on Thursday, and I think there will be enormous pressure from

:22:34.:22:36.

European leaders to try to calm this down and stop the Russians from

:22:37.:22:39.

retaliating, because they will be very angry about this. Turkey has

:22:40.:22:44.

been extremely defensive about its border, it has already in the past

:22:45.:22:48.

summoned the Russian ambassador, last Friday, to the Foreign Ministry

:22:49.:22:51.

complaining about Russian air strikes on rebels on that side of

:22:52.:22:55.

the border, pointing out there are no Islamic State forces in that

:22:56.:23:00.

area, and that it worries about the impact on refugees coming across its

:23:01.:23:04.

own border. In a way, this was almost like an accident waiting to

:23:05.:23:06.

happen. Thank you very much, Frank Gardner,

:23:07.:23:12.

security correspondent. It is being reported by Reuters, video sent by a

:23:13.:23:16.

Syrian rebel group to Reuters, claims to show one of the Russian

:23:17.:23:21.

pilots in mobile on the ground. An official from the group says he

:23:22.:23:27.

is dead. Not sure about the fate of the other, although reported earlier

:23:28.:23:30.

that he was in the hands of one of the rebel groups.

:23:31.:23:33.

Hopefully not Isis, given what happened to the Jordanian pilot in

:23:34.:23:38.

January, they burnt alive in a cage. But these are different rebel

:23:39.:23:41.

groups, they will not be particularly friendly towards the

:23:42.:23:45.

Russians who are bombing them, so this is a very unpredictable, this

:23:46.:23:49.

is how wars start, and obviously there was already a war in Syria, so

:23:50.:23:59.

the last thing anybody needs is a dip in Matic let alone military

:24:00.:24:01.

confrontation between Turkey and Russia.

:24:02.:24:02.

Thank you for that. The Russian presidential press

:24:03.:24:04.

secretary has just said it is too early to talk about a possible

:24:05.:24:07.

worsening of relations with Turkey over the jet.

:24:08.:24:10.

Let's talk now to Andrei Kolesnikov, a former Russian

:24:11.:24:12.

journalist who runs the domestic politics programme at the Carnegie

:24:13.:24:15.

Thank you very much for talking to us. You making of this? I think this

:24:16.:24:27.

is quite bad for relations between Russia and Turkey. The relations

:24:28.:24:36.

were quite bad until this incident, and it could be much worse. After

:24:37.:24:46.

that incident. One more important thing is that the majority of

:24:47.:24:58.

Russians are in an information war with the West, we are engaged in the

:24:59.:25:07.

war in Syria, and all these wars, Ukraine, Cold War, war in Syria, was

:25:08.:25:17.

without any victims. Now we can see that we have victims, and this is

:25:18.:25:24.

trouble for the concept of victorious war, of the preventative

:25:25.:25:31.

war. This is some kind of strategic trap for Putin and his inner

:25:32.:25:37.

circle, which articulated this concept of victorious war. So in

:25:38.:25:44.

order to prevent relations from getting any worse, what sort of

:25:45.:25:49.

wisdom do we need from politicians with cool heads? Yes, this is really

:25:50.:26:01.

a very difficult situation for both sides, if they want to prolong their

:26:02.:26:13.

relations in the sphere of the war with Isis and so on. I can't even

:26:14.:26:23.

imagine what Putin now can invent in order to explain that it wasn't an

:26:24.:26:32.

intention of Russians to make some harm to Turkey. I think there could

:26:33.:26:39.

be real diplomatic conflict with unpredictable consequences for this

:26:40.:26:44.

relationship between Russia and Turkey. OK, thank you very much for

:26:45.:26:49.

talking to us. Thank you for your time.

:26:50.:26:53.

More to come, obviously, on that developing story before the end of

:26:54.:26:58.

the programme. Later this week a cricket tournament

:26:59.:27:02.

for underprivileged teenagers will get under way in the United Arab

:27:03.:27:05.

Emirates, the result of months of work from former England cricket

:27:06.:27:06.

captain Kevin Pietersen, who was left out of the squad last year.

:27:07.:27:15.

His critics say he is arrogant and confrontational but many fans think

:27:16.:27:19.

His critics say he is arrogant and he's England's's he arose, someone

:27:20.:27:21.

who bought the game to the masses. He made his England

:27:22.:27:24.

who bought the game to the masses. and was part of the team that

:27:25.:27:27.

famously brought home the Ashes ten years ago. One of England's's

:27:28.:27:34.

leading run scorer was, he hit 1181 runs in 104 tests, including 23

:27:35.:27:38.

centuries. He was sacked from the England setup last year at which

:27:39.:27:41.

stage his international career appeared to be over. He then restart

:27:42.:27:46.

autobiography criticising several England players, saying there was a

:27:47.:27:49.

bullying culture in the dressing room. I deserve an opportunity,

:27:50.:27:54.

after five or six years of character assassination after character

:27:55.:27:57.

assassination, to get my side of events out. A clamour grew for him

:27:58.:28:01.

to be recalled to the salt before this summer's Ashes after he hit 355

:28:02.:28:16.

not out the story against Leicestershire, which prompted a

:28:17.:28:18.

meeting with the new director of cricket and former team-mate Andrew

:28:19.:28:21.

Strauss. But Strauss decided not to recall the 35-year-old, and it is no

:28:22.:28:23.

secret they do not get on. Everyone would agree that is the case. With

:28:24.:28:26.

the players? Between Kevin and the board. Let's not run away from the

:28:27.:28:32.

fact that that is the issue, that is the problem we need to aggressive

:28:33.:28:36.

there is any future the cabin in English cricket. At the moment, we

:28:37.:28:39.

are miles apart. Kevin Pietersen says he holds no grudges about the

:28:40.:28:44.

decision and is focusing on other things, including a cricket

:28:45.:28:46.

tournament for underprivileged teenagers in the United Arab

:28:47.:28:48.

Emirates. Let's talk to him now to find out

:28:49.:28:52.

more. Phil is in? Hi, thanks for having me. It is

:28:53.:28:59.

more. Phil is in? Hi, thanks for kids around the world

:29:00.:29:01.

more. Phil is in? Hi, thanks for travelled of international

:29:02.:29:04.

cricketers were years, you see the opportunities that some of us have

:29:05.:29:08.

had throughout our lives, I have also seen the

:29:09.:29:08.

had throughout our lives, I have against, played with, had practice

:29:09.:29:16.

had throughout our lives, I have is an opportunity to get back to

:29:17.:29:17.

had throughout our lives, I have these kids, to help them along their

:29:18.:29:22.

ways, take them to do by over the next ten days, 12 kids from six or

:29:23.:29:27.

seven different countries, 16 to 18-year-olds. We have got them

:29:28.:29:32.

passports and visas, they will come to do by, spend ten days, play a

:29:33.:29:36.

global tournaments at the end. We will give scholarships to some of

:29:37.:29:40.

the better players going forward and just help them on their way. We have

:29:41.:29:44.

got some wonderful videos of kids from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka where

:29:45.:29:48.

they talk about the opportunity, saying that it is not just them that

:29:49.:29:53.

is proud, but their brothers, sisters, families and villages that

:29:54.:29:57.

are proud. For me, I think this is probably going to be the proudest

:29:58.:30:00.

week of my sporting career because it is not just about me but making

:30:01.:30:05.

kids from different countries who don't have the opportunities and

:30:06.:30:11.

access to this scheme, just making them happy, seeing them smile.

:30:12.:30:16.

This is an absolutely amazing opportunity for the kids so all the

:30:17.:30:22.

best to them for this tournament as well. You say this is the proudest

:30:23.:30:28.

of your career. Since England dropped you, you've been working

:30:29.:30:31.

around the world in T20 competitions, what is the difference

:30:32.:30:36.

in feeling, I want you to describe your emotions here, the difference

:30:37.:30:41.

in feeling when you pull on a shirt for the Durban Dolphins or

:30:42.:30:45.

Melbourne, compared to a Surrey or Hampshire shirt or even the England

:30:46.:30:50.

colours? It's pretty similar because I treat every single game like it's

:30:51.:30:55.

my last and my work ethic whether I'm in Durban, India or the

:30:56.:30:58.

Caribbean or playing for Surrey, I treat it exactly the same. I don't

:30:59.:31:03.

create mountains out of mole hills, I don't let emotion take over so

:31:04.:31:07.

playing for the Dolphins like I was last week in South Africa would be

:31:08.:31:10.

the same as playing for Melbourne and the same for England because, if

:31:11.:31:15.

you start trying to put things on different levels, you can complicate

:31:16.:31:18.

things and I don't like to complicate things. You can also put

:31:19.:31:23.

too much pressure on yourself. The pressure was on me playing for

:31:24.:31:31.

England for ten years anyway, I felt the weight of expectation. Keep it

:31:32.:31:35.

even peg and trust your practise and I think if my practise is good

:31:36.:31:39.

enough, if I perform the next day I perform the next day but I couldn't

:31:40.:31:43.

have done anything differently to get the results the next day so

:31:44.:31:46.

there is no real difference. I understand. That is interesting. Are

:31:47.:31:51.

you resigned to not playing for England again? I mean no, if it

:31:52.:31:55.

happens it happens... Do you think it could? When I talk to

:31:56.:31:59.

journalists, they ask that question, it's not something I wake up every

:32:00.:32:05.

morning worrying about. I know. I wake up as happy as anything every

:32:06.:32:10.

day with my life and if it happens over the next however many years

:32:11.:32:14.

that I'm still playing cricket, it happens. If I have played my last

:32:15.:32:23.

game, I have played my last game. But this project is making me so

:32:24.:32:27.

happy this week. Quick question about England and South Africa, are

:32:28.:32:30.

England mentally tough enough to take on South Africa and I know what

:32:31.:32:35.

you think about Ian Bell being dropped, but answer the mentally

:32:36.:32:40.

tough thing first of all? ! I think we lack experience in going to South

:32:41.:32:46.

Africa. I think Cook's ander son and Broad are the only ones who've

:32:47.:32:49.

played international cricket in South Africa so it's the experience

:32:50.:32:53.

that we lack, but there are so many of us that got our predictions short

:32:54.:32:59.

of time. Having played in South Africa over the last few weeks, it's

:33:00.:33:02.

going to be tough, I know how hard South Africa is. I played my whole

:33:03.:33:07.

career and never beat South Africa in a test r test series, so it's

:33:08.:33:13.

going to be incredibly hard. It will be a good viewing spectacle. You

:33:14.:33:18.

said it was pathetic that England dropped Ian Bell? When you are

:33:19.:33:23.

playing against the best side in the world, you need experience. I saw

:33:24.:33:28.

some of the runs he's got in the UAE, they were hard runs, you don't

:33:29.:33:34.

just go to smash the 100, you've got to grind it out and he scored some

:33:35.:33:40.

tough runs there. If he didn't score runs in any Test matches in South

:33:41.:33:43.

Africa I would understand it more, before you go and embark on a

:33:44.:33:46.

journey over two or three months in South Africa against the best team

:33:47.:33:49.

in the world, you need experience. Thank you very much for talking to

:33:50.:33:53.

us Kevin. Good luck with the tournament. Thank you very much.

:33:54.:33:56.

What makes a troll send abusive messages?

:33:57.:33:58.

Is it the thrill of the number of retweets?

:33:59.:34:03.

That's what Saturday's singer Frankie Bridge tried to find out

:34:04.:34:07.

when she exclusively confronted a troll for this programme.

:34:08.:34:10.

Frankie has been trolled on social media herself, called "fat"

:34:11.:34:13.

and told she'd "lost it" when she was pregnant with her young son.

:34:14.:34:16.

Here's what happened when she met a troll who we've not

:34:17.:34:18.

been able to identify for legal reasons; there's some

:34:19.:34:20.

It was just to get a buzz, and people getting replies

:34:21.:34:45.

Sometimes it does become a competition between trolls.

:34:46.:34:51.

The buzz you say that you get, is that from being horrible to someone

:34:52.:34:59.

It's from getting the retweets and the favourites.

:35:00.:35:12.

Why do you think you enjoy the attention online?

:35:13.:35:18.

Would you be like that to someone in person?

:35:19.:35:20.

I've seen that you've said you would rape someone, and that you

:35:21.:35:23.

Would you say that to someone in person?

:35:24.:35:27.

So how come you feel it is OK online?

:35:28.:35:33.

Did you never think about how it would make that person feel?

:35:34.:35:41.

No, you don't think about what you're saying.

:35:42.:35:58.

I've seen that you've said you would rape someone, and that you

:35:59.:36:01.

Would you say that to someone in person?

:36:02.:36:14.

Because I know from when people have said things to me...

:36:15.:36:17.

They've never called me a bitch or said they're going to

:36:18.:36:20.

These are just comments about the way I look or my personality or

:36:21.:36:24.

something and that really hurt me, when I'm feeling insecure, when I'm

:36:25.:36:27.

I'm there to be a singer, not there to be a perfect person.

:36:28.:36:32.

It is hard when people say those comments to me.

:36:33.:36:35.

But I can't even imagine how I would have felt if someone had said some

:36:36.:36:38.

And as someone who's actually been bullied, do you not see that is just

:36:39.:36:43.

as nasty, even though that's just on the internet?

:36:44.:36:45.

That other person could actually hurt themselves

:36:46.:36:50.

You can watch and share the full film on our

:36:51.:36:56.

Frankie Bridge is with us now, along with Caroline Noakes, Conservative

:36:57.:37:00.

MP and chair of a Parliamentary group looking at body image and Abby

:37:01.:37:04.

Pell who was trolled after posting a picture of her six pack online with

:37:05.:37:07.

the words 'I have a kid, a six-pack and no excuse'.

:37:08.:37:10.

Frankie, what was it like meeting a troll?

:37:11.:37:14.

He seemed quite apologetic but didn't give me any reasons for it

:37:15.:37:19.

that I felt warranted what he'd been saying to people and a lot of it to

:37:20.:37:23.

me just seemed like he did it for attention. Yes. Which is interesting

:37:24.:37:29.

in itself, the fact that he wanted retweets or whatever, it's as

:37:30.:37:33.

straightforward as that? Yes, people see that as some sort of thing to

:37:34.:37:37.

make them popular. I find it weird that people see reality and the

:37:38.:37:40.

Internet as two completely different things. I think it's really faceless

:37:41.:37:44.

and I think he just saw it as a bit of fun and he liked the thrill of

:37:45.:37:49.

not being able to get caught. Yes. The impact on you when you get

:37:50.:37:54.

abusive messages, people say, it's part of the job, you are in the

:37:55.:37:58.

public eye, you are a singer, it's inevitable, but tell us about the

:37:59.:38:01.

impact on you? I think there is a line and sometimes it's crossed. I

:38:02.:38:05.

think I started in this industry when I was 12 and around that time

:38:06.:38:10.

there was no social media, I was really sheltered because I wasn't

:38:11.:38:13.

really allowed to be put in magazines and things like that, so I

:38:14.:38:19.

came into the Saturdays naively I think. I don't think it's right for

:38:20.:38:23.

anyone to say, you know, I don't understand why you would want to say

:38:24.:38:27.

those things to someone, why would you want to go out of your way to be

:38:28.:38:32.

nasty. I know people sit and chat and say, hasn't she got fat, but to

:38:33.:38:36.

actually say it so they know I've read it, that's what I found real hi

:38:37.:38:40.

hard to get my head around. I don't think I'll ever understand that even

:38:41.:38:47.

after meeting him. Caroline Noakes, is there a link between poor

:38:48.:38:51.

self-esteem when it comes to body image and the kind of stuff that

:38:52.:38:54.

goes on on social media? Absolutely and if you talk to teenagers they'll

:38:55.:39:01.

freely tell you they never upload a photograph, photo shop or filter and

:39:02.:39:06.

they are looking for approval and appreciation online which is tragic.

:39:07.:39:09.

Is that social media's fault or the individual's fault? A combination.

:39:10.:39:12.

We have a generation of teenagers that don't have confidence in

:39:13.:39:16.

themselves and that's why the APPG is calling for statutory PSHE and

:39:17.:39:26.

for lessons in... A lot of acronyms there, PHSG is a lesson Personal and

:39:27.:39:32.

social health education. Where you talk about personal body image and

:39:33.:39:37.

trolling and that kind of thing. Is your boss David Cameron listening to

:39:38.:39:39.

you when you call for compulsory lessons in that? I'm working hard on

:39:40.:39:44.

Nicky morgue tonne convince her that it's important, the Education

:39:45.:39:46.

Secretary. We want the see this in schools and we want teenagers to be

:39:47.:39:50.

equipped with the skills they'll need in an increasingly digital

:39:51.:39:53.

world so they have the self-confidence and the belief in

:39:54.:39:55.

themselveses to go out and face the world and go out and pay productive

:39:56.:40:01.

person in society to get jobs and it's terrifying when you hear there

:40:02.:40:06.

are as many as 60% of girls too afraid to put their hands up in

:40:07.:40:11.

school or don't take part in PE because they are worried they'll be

:40:12.:40:16.

bullied or body shamed. You think the police and social media should

:40:17.:40:20.

work together more quickly to take down abusive stuff? I don't

:40:21.:40:25.

understand the ins and outs of the Internet but I know you can close

:40:26.:40:29.

down someone's account if they say something abusive but they can make

:40:30.:40:32.

a new one and I don't know if there is any way to be able to stop that.

:40:33.:40:38.

When a line is crossed, the police should get involved. Abby what was

:40:39.:40:43.

it that made trolls attack you online? Just myself putting myself

:40:44.:40:49.

out there for criticism as it were and I think it was mainly the image

:40:50.:40:56.

that I put up with the caption. Did you want to wind people up? No, not

:40:57.:41:00.

at all. What did you think would happen? As I mum, when I was

:41:01.:41:05.

pregnant, I thought it wasn't necessary to get in good shape

:41:06.:41:11.

afterwards so I was proud of myself so it wasn't intended on boasting,

:41:12.:41:16.

to say look at me, it was to say if you are a mum or young girl worried

:41:17.:41:19.

about getting pregnant it's not the end of the world and it's possible.

:41:20.:41:22.

You can have children and still work hard on your fitness and things like

:41:23.:41:27.

that and achieve it. I wonder if that is having the same effect on

:41:28.:41:35.

some people, like we are discussing now, you know, the perfect image in

:41:36.:41:39.

magazines and so forth, you know, you look great, you are showing it

:41:40.:41:43.

to other people and they are thinking, oh, my gosh. Yes, I

:41:44.:41:47.

understand that but I was putting it in a way that, this isn't a

:41:48.:41:52.

photo-shopped or filtered image, I'm proud of my achievement, you know,

:41:53.:41:57.

to do with health and fitness, it wasn't about make-up or photo-shop

:41:58.:42:02.

filters. Can I ask you about photo-shopping because you have been

:42:03.:42:06.

photo-shopped, do you feel like you have a responsibility when it comes

:42:07.:42:12.

to that, could you stop magazines putting in photo-shopped pictures of

:42:13.:42:14.

you? I think it would be hard to. Why? I think as much as you saw in

:42:15.:42:20.

the programme people want to buy the magazines with people looking fat or

:42:21.:42:23.

whatever on the front, there is a side where people enjoy looking at

:42:24.:42:27.

the nice images or whatever, whatever you want to call it. I

:42:28.:42:30.

think it would be hard to get everyone to kind of stick together

:42:31.:42:35.

and stop retouching. If one person does it and you get trolled for the

:42:36.:42:40.

way you look, why are you going to want to, because is everyone going

:42:41.:42:45.

to be horrible and call you names. It's a double-edged sword. If

:42:46.:42:48.

everyone got together and did it yes, but it would be hard. It would

:42:49.:42:53.

work. Caroline, what do you think, because your group looked at this?

:42:54.:43:00.

The be Real campaign has been about convincing the advertising industry

:43:01.:43:06.

to cut down on the eshoping, or if you don't, have a liable saying it's

:43:07.:43:10.

been digitally altered. Be transparent. Chai says emotional and

:43:11.:43:19.

empowering, your film, another viewer says don't let others

:43:20.:43:23.

determine your self-esteem. Dean says, Frankie it's great to confront

:43:24.:43:27.

these insecure idiots that gain pleasure in hurting others. On

:43:28.:43:31.

Facebook, Diane says it's right that you address the issue, no-one

:43:32.:43:35.

deserves such abuse and these infantile trolls should be stopped.

:43:36.:43:39.

Interesting to know how they would feel if a member of their family

:43:40.:43:42.

were targeted. Thank you very much for coming in. Joanna is presenting

:43:43.:43:51.

the programme for the next week or so while I continue breast cancer

:43:52.:43:55.

treatment. Enjoy the rest of your day.

:43:56.:44:02.

Even at lunch, you see them running around, doing interviews

:44:03.:44:10.

They're really engaging with the world around them.

:44:11.:44:15.

And it builds so many skills, researching stories,

:44:16.:44:18.

discussing and presenting, but also giving them memories for life.

:44:19.:44:22.

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