03/12/2015 Victoria Derbyshire


03/12/2015

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Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:09.:00:11.

This morning; British warplanes have carried out airstrikes in Syria,

:00:12.:00:19.

four tornado jets have each dropped three massive 500lb Paveway bombs

:00:20.:00:26.

The strikes started within hours of that vote by MPs.

:00:27.:00:41.

The ayes to the right 397, the noes to the left, 223, so the ayes have

:00:42.:00:48.

it, the ayes have it. Throughout the programme we'll get

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reaction from you, the military and people in Syria and

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from some of the politicians who I'm Angela, SNP and I voted against

:00:55.:01:08.

because I didn't believe we'd had enough answers to the questions. I'm

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James, Conservative MP for Kingston and Surbiton, I voted in favour of

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the air strikes, Daesh operate in Iraq and in Syria, we are extending

:01:23.:01:29.

into Syria, that is the sensible thing to do.

:01:30.:01:34.

Also on the programme, Oscar Pistorius was guilty

:01:35.:01:37.

of murder for shooting his girlfriends Reeva Steenkamp.

:01:38.:01:39.

A South African appeal court has ruled in the last half hour that

:01:40.:01:43.

a previous conviction of manslaughter should be overturned.

:01:44.:01:45.

We'll bring you the details and reaction.

:01:46.:01:51.

Guilty of murder with the defendant having had intent.

:01:52.:01:57.

Plus, we'll bring you reaction to the news that at least 14 people

:01:58.:02:00.

have been killed in yet another mass shooting at a health centre

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There was the shooter in a building. They went into a room and locked the

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Hello, welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News

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Throughout the programme we'll keep you right across events in Syria

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and we want your reaction to that vote and military action.

:02:43.:02:47.

Do get in touch in the usual ways and we'll read

:02:48.:02:51.

Plus, we'll keep you up to date with events

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in Switzerland where police have arrested two Fifa offiicials as part

:02:59.:03:02.

of an investigation into corruption in the world governing body.

:03:03.:03:07.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you

:03:08.:03:10.

are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria

:03:11.:03:15.

and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

:03:16.:03:18.

by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire.

:03:19.:03:22.

Within hours of that vote by MPs, RAF jets carried out

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Four planes were involved, each armed with three massive 500lb

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397 MPs voted for Britain to extend air strikes in Syria, 223 voted

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Do we go after the terrorists in their Heartlands from where they are

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plotting to kill British people or sit back and wait for them to attack

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us? Public opinion is moving increasingly against what I believe

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to be an ill-thought out rush to war. We are being asked to intervene

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in a bloody Civil War of huge complexity. We are being asked to do

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it without an exit strategy and no reasonable means of saying we are

:04:20.:04:24.

going to make a difference. Daesh are the fascists of our time and I

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believe there is still dignity in uniting with our allies in common

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cause against a common enemy in defence of our human commandality.

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When I go through the lobby... It will be for the refugees and it will

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be for the security in Twickenham. Most of the factions which are

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extremely locally based have no interest whatsoever in being drawn

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into battles against groups which basically share their sectarian

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agenda hundreds of miles away in areas in which they are unfamiliar.

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Mr Speaker, instead of having dodgy dossiers, we now have bogus

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battalions of moderate fighters. Our French allies have explicitly

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asked us for such support, and I invite the House to consider how

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we'd feel and what we'd say, if what took place in Paris happened in

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London, if we'd asked France for support and France had refused. As a

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Muslim woman, I'll stand with people of all faiths. We are justified in

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taking action to destroy Isis, they are a threat and won't rest until

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they have decitied us and everything we stand for. Mr Speaker, to join

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the already ongoing bombing campaign in the skies over Syria will only

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compound human suffering. Military intervention without credible

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peace-building plans will only make intervention without credible

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the situation worse, just as it did in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Socialist and Trade Unionists and others joined the national brigade

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in the '30s to fight against Franco. It's why this sbiesh House stood up

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against Hitler and Mussolini. It's why our party's always stood up

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against the denial of human rights and for justice and my view, Mr

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Speaker, is that we must now confront this evil. It is now time

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for us to do our bit in Syria and that is why I ask my colleagues to

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vote for this motion tonight. THE SPEAKER: The ayes to the right,

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397, the noes to the left, 323. THE SPEAKER: The ayes to the right,

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397, the noes to the left, 323, so the ayes have it, the ayes have it.

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Unlock. It was emotional, it was thoughtful,

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it was passionate, it was nuanced. I watched BBC Parliament yesterday,

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some of the speeches were brilliant, some were not.

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For the new intake of MPs, those who were elected to Parliament

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just seven months ago, none surely could have imagined

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they'd be voting on what could turn out to be the most important

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We've brought together some of those politicians elected

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in back in May, three who voted for extending air strikes to Syria.

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Alex Chalk, Gavin Robinson and James Berry voted

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for airstrikes, Two who voted against, Clive Lewis from Labour,

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As you can see, only Angela is here this morn, Clive and Louise pulled

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out at the last minute. Let me ask you then, seven months into this

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job, did any of you ever think you would be making a decision of this

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magnitude at this stage in your political career?

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I think in an ideal world you would never have to make decisions like

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the one we had to make last night. But the situation in Syria is far

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from ideal and the situation that we find ourselves in at home and abroad

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is far from ideal, so when the decision comes, we can't shirk it.

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We can't set aside the important decisions of national security just

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because we are new to Parliament. There is a heavy burden on our

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shoulders and last night not only the majority of young and new MPs,

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but the majority of MPs, made the right decision. Can I just add to

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that, one thing I think is good is that it's Parliament that's making

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this decision because it's the new convention. It used to be the Prime

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Minister acting under his powers, now there is that say for Parliament

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and our democracy's for it. Although it wasn't that long ago that David

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Cameron took the decision to use drones to kill two British Jihadists

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in Syria without Parliament giving its say-so, but I broadly take your

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point. Angela, in terms of you making your decision, you are just

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seven months into the job, what was that like for you? This is always

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going to be a difficult decision, irrespective of how long you are in

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the job. It will be at the forefront of your mind, the constituents and

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who you represent And the far-reaching impact this has. Nobody

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could forget that point or undermine the importance of that.

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What about you, James? Nothing can prepare you for having to take a

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decision as grave as sending our troops into battle. As an MP, there

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are lots of things that have to do, I had to speak at a funeral of a

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14-year-old girl ran over in my constituency. You have to listen to

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the arguments, not to take a decision lightly and go with your

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conscience and that's what I did. Nothing prepared you, but did you

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feel equipped to make that decision? I did, we had briefings from senior

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members of the military and the Cabinet and the RAF and we had all

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the information that I think we possibly could have had to make that

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decision. When you went to bed last night, were you nervous about the

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decision you'd reached or, did you sleep soundly? I didn't sleep

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soundly. I obviously voted against air strikes and felt really strongly

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that having spoken at great length, there are thousands of pieces of

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correspondence from constituents who didn't want us to take part in air

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strikes. So despite having taken the right decision for them, I don't

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rest easy with the decision that's been made because I have to think of

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people living in Syria and living with the consequences. Did you sleep

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soundly? Yesterday was a more difficult position than last night.

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In the run-up to the vote and the considerations that were made, there

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were quite a number of MPs last night who made their decision after

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the final speech with Hilary Benn, a speech that I think will be historic

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and recognised as such a significant contribution to Parliamentary life.

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Interestingly, the Shadow Foreign Secretary closing the debate and

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speaking for air strikes in obviously direct opposition to his

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leader earlier in the day? Yes. At the start he was complimentary

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towards his leader as well and recognised there was a burden on

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members of his own party. We can't get away from the fact that there

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was a huge burden on people of whatever decision they took at the

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end. A huge burden yesterday. Whilst there was not a sense of relief, I

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was pleased the vote had been taken and indeed comfortable with the

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outcome. Alex, I think you made up your mind finally just on Tuesday,

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the day before the vote. What was going through your mind until then?

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Well, I started from a position of I think probably a healthy scepticism.

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Every time you are being asked to commit British forces, I think

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you've got to make sure the case is absolutely made and initially my

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concern was look, it's an idealogy as well as an army, can you achieve

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anything from 35,000 feet. Because of the briefings we got, I asked for

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one with Theresa May in person and I said, these the things I need your

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assistance on, can you persuade me. By the end of it, the case had been

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made and I reached my decision with a clear conscience. Yes. I made my

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decision over the weekend, had briefings like the one that Alex

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mentioned and, to me, it was a very clear decision, one I reached with

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heavy heart, it was a grave decision, but it was quite clear hi

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the right one. I know there were MPs who, as Gavin says, weren't

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convinced by Hilary Benn's fantastic speech yesterday, one of the best

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I've heard in my life. There were Labour MPs in tears in that speech,

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listening to it, because a number of Labour MPs have come under an

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unbelievable amount of pressure, being threatened with deselection,

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having marches and nobody can prepare you for that. We would have

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liked to have talked to Louise and Clive who agreed to come on the

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programme yesterday to ask to put some of those points to them, but

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maybe we'll get to talk to a Labour MP at some point throughout the

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programme this morning. Angela, air strikes have now taken

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place, British involvement in Syria has happened. Four jets, each armed

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with three huge bombs, they have returned to Cyprus without the

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bombs. Britain is bombing IS targets in Syria? For me, the reason I voted

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against it is because I'm not convinced that any further air

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strikes will make the Belindaest bit of difference at this stage. There

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are already ten countries in Syria. What difference does the UK

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contribute and how will that help Syria, I'm not persuaded. It's a

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fair question and we'll ask the gentlemen who voted for the air

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strikes, but those bombs, we are told, have targeted oil fields

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controlled by IS, that is one of the ways they are funded. Is that not a

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good thing to take those out? The arguments coming through yesterday

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were about getting to the source, where is their funding and weaponry

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coming from and we in the SNP agree that action has to be taken against

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Daesh, we are not sitting back saying no action has to be taken,

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but I'm not persuaded this is the right action and I would like to see

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more action taken but in the right way. Your reaction, three men here

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who voted for air strikes, they have begun, British jets are involved,

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how do you react to that? It's unhelpful to talk about bombing

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Syria. How would you describe it then? We are attacking Daesh and we

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can't lose that focus. It's smack ticks though isn't it? It's not.

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Irrespective of where they are and how they are going to harm us or the

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people in the countries in which they operate, they are a target. --

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semantics. I have sympathy for the people horrifically oppressed,

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similarly for those in Iraq. 74 attacks alone by Daesh in the UK, we

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have to recognise the enemy is there, not the Syrian people, not

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the country of Syria, but the borders and we need to hunt them

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down. The reality is though that the

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Syrian people will have to live with it, that is where they live. Two

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million children are out of school right now. How does air strikes in

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Syria prevent young people from guaranteeing a future. Daesh will

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not encourage them to live in a tolerant, multi-Kellth cultural

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pacifist society. Daesh will not provide a good future for the

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children of Syria. Every day we allow them to dig in, gain oil

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wealth. More gay people thrown off buildings, more people brutalised

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and killed and more children out of schools. We have to step up, not

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particularly when they just inspire offences but they commission

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atrocities in Britain. I absolutely agree with you about

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the innocent people who will be affected but the decision taken last

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night will impact on their lives as well. None of us underestimate the

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decision but I know a lot of SNP MPs and a number of the more left-wing

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Labour MPs voted against air strikes in Daesh in Iraq in November 2014. I

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can completely understand the intellectual case for someone who

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voted against that voting against bombing Daesh in Syria as well, but

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for us to recognise a border which Daesh themselves do not recognise,

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they operate across both countries, for us to stop our air strikes at

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the border which diets themselves do not recognise, to me, makes no

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sense. I want to read messages from people having this conversation

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around the country, but a quick question, what is the Exeter

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strategy? I think Exeter strategy puts this into the confines of going

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after a country where you go to a place and keep. Daesh does not

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recognise borders. What we need to do is reduce their capacity, reduce

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the impact they will have here and in the UK and abroad. Reduce the

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impact they are having on people. What will success looked like? Less

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capability, less in fact, reduced threat in this country and to

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release the Rheims -- release a loose around the necks of the people

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suffering in strict -- in Syria. One viewer says, I watched the debate

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and felt sick when the MPs clapped. We are meant to feel safer now? As

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for the people in Syria, I could weep for them. One on Twitter says,

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not in my name. From Robert, this is a disgraceful vote, a rush to war, a

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sad day for us all. An e-mail from Lewis, this is ridiculous, not only

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to the majority of the public despise it but David Cameron is

:18:39.:18:43.

scaring people into voting by using the phrase terrorist sympathiser. It

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is manipulative. Alison says, I am an SNP supporter, but I am

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disappointed by their attitude toward Syria, don't they understand

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we are a target? Thank you for those.

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You can find a list of how your MPs vote on the BBC News website.

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Throughout the progrmame we'll bring you the

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We'll bring you reaction from the military, from Syrians

:19:06.:19:10.

living in this country and in Syria, and we'll bring you the latest live

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And more on the dramatic judgment overturning Oscar Pistorius'

:19:14.:19:24.

manslaughter conviction and replacing it with murder.

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Britain has carried out its first air strikes in Syria,

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just hours after MPs voted in favour of military action.

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Jets set off from their bases in Scotland and Cyprus,

:19:53.:19:54.

targeting so-called Islamic State targets in the east of the country.

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The jets dropped 500lb laser-guided bombs on oil fields

:19:58.:19:59.

The Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said

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I can confirm that four British Tornadoes were in action after the

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vote last night, attacking oilfields in eastern Syria, the oilfields from

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which the Daesh terrorists derive a huge part of their revenue.

:20:12.:20:22.

The Government won the vote with more than 170 -- with a majority of

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more than 170. More than 60 Labour MPs backed

:20:32.:20:32.

the Government in last night's Commons vote, including Shadow

:20:33.:20:34.

Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn. It is time for us to do our bit in

:20:35.:20:40.

Syria, which is why ask my colleagues to vote for this motion

:20:41.:20:42.

to light. -- tonight. 14 people have been killed

:20:43.:20:47.

in a mass shooting at The attackers, Wimbledon and a man

:20:48.:20:58.

in their 20s, were shot dead by police. It is the deadliest attack

:20:59.:21:02.

in the US since a school shooting in in 2012.

:21:03.:21:10.

In the past hour, Oscar Pistorius has been found

:21:11.:21:12.

guilty of murdering his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in 2013.

:21:13.:21:14.

The decision by South Africa's Supreme Court overturns a previous

:21:15.:21:16.

The judge said he had fired the fatal shots with criminal intent.

:21:17.:21:23.

Guilty of murder with the accused having had criminal intent in the

:21:24.:21:29.

form of dolus eventualis. The methods referred back to the trial

:21:30.:21:34.

court to consider an appropriate in terms of the -- in light of the

:21:35.:21:37.

judgment. Let's catch up with all

:21:38.:21:38.

the sport now. It's

:21:39.:21:43.

a phrase we often find ourselves saying and today there have been

:21:44.:21:46.

further arrests made for bribery. Swiss Authorities suspect two

:21:47.:21:51.

high-ranking Fifa officials may have accepted millions of dollars

:21:52.:21:54.

of bribes. They were arrested in dawn raids

:21:55.:21:57.

at a Swiss hotel in Zurich. That's where we will find sports

:21:58.:22:11.

news correspondent Richard Conway On May 7th Fifa officials were

:22:12.:22:14.

arrested in the very same hotel in Zurich on corruption charges,

:22:15.:22:20.

but the body will have more fingers On the field of play,

:22:21.:22:23.

there was a fantastic result for Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool

:22:24.:22:26.

in the League Cup last night. A 6-1 away win over Southampton,

:22:27.:22:28.

put them into the semi-final and set A trip to Wembley in February

:22:29.:22:31.

would be just the thing to really Their fans will be dreaming

:22:32.:22:36.

of an all-Merseyside final with Everton drawn with Manchester City

:22:37.:22:39.

in the other semi. So we'll see how that pans out,

:22:40.:22:41.

it's shaping up nicely. We'll take a look as well at

:22:42.:22:44.

Great Britain's Hockey team who are flying high at the

:22:45.:22:47.

World League Final in India. Lots of reaction to the fact that

:22:48.:23:01.

British jets have been dropping bombs in Syria. We will take you to

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RAF Lossiemouth now. Look at these pictures, we can see a plane, I'm

:23:06.:23:09.

told this is a transporter plane, taking off and heading for the

:23:10.:23:11.

British RAF base in Cyprus. On its way to the RAF base in Cyprus

:23:12.:23:53.

from RAF Lossiemouth, it will be joining the various other Tornado

:23:54.:24:00.

and Typhoon jets which are based in Cyprus. More Tornados heading out to

:24:01.:24:06.

eastern Syria overnight after the vote by MPs in the House of Commons.

:24:07.:24:19.

They are back there this morning. We will leave those pictures then

:24:20.:24:21.

up. That transporter plane on its way to

:24:22.:24:23.

the RAF base in Cyprus. So, the talking about whether to

:24:24.:24:26.

take military action is over. The first British air strikes

:24:27.:24:28.

against targets in Syria have begun. Just hours after MPs voted to extend

:24:29.:24:31.

the war against so-called IS by 397 votes to 223, four Tornados

:24:32.:24:36.

loaded with bombs took off from Our world affairs correspondent

:24:37.:24:51.

Richard Galpin is there. We have also seen a number of jets taking

:24:52.:24:55.

off from Lossiemouth in Scotland and East Anglia. Our correspondent Craig

:24:56.:25:01.

Anderson is that Lossiemouth, Alex Dunlop is at RAF Marham. I think we

:25:02.:25:03.

can talk to all of them right now. Let's start with you in Lossiemouth,

:25:04.:25:12.

if we make. We have just seen the transporter plane taking off for

:25:13.:25:19.

Cyprus. What would it be giving? -- what will it be doing?

:25:20.:25:25.

We saw buses arriving, it will be taking engineers, ground staff and

:25:26.:25:32.

maintenance supplies to RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus, to service the planes

:25:33.:25:35.

that left here this morning. We saw a total of six Typhoon warplanes

:25:36.:25:40.

heading off as well as one Tornado from here at RAF Lossiemouth,

:25:41.:25:44.

Lossiemouth being one of the main bases in the UK for the Typhoon. The

:25:45.:25:48.

tycoon is one of the most advanced warplanes anywhere in the world, it

:25:49.:25:54.

carries an array of precision guided bombs and missiles, as well as very

:25:55.:25:57.

sophisticated surveillance and reconnaissance equipment on board.

:25:58.:26:04.

As well as single-seat aircraft. They will be joining the Tornados,

:26:05.:26:09.

slightly older, not quite as fast as the Typhoons but still very, very

:26:10.:26:14.

capable, and of course the air strikes against Syria may have

:26:15.:26:18.

started but the air strikes against Iraq will continue, and these planes

:26:19.:26:28.

will be doubling the compliment of British warplanes currently based at

:26:29.:26:31.

RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Let's go to Cyprus, then, Richard

:26:32.:26:35.

Galpin, world affairs correspondent, talk through which jets have left

:26:36.:26:39.

there, what they have done and what has happened since they returned?

:26:40.:26:46.

Yes, there were four Tornados which were based here, which took off last

:26:47.:26:50.

night. As understanding is it was very soon after the vote in

:26:51.:26:54.

parliament, perhaps within an hour. They had obviously been pre-fight

:26:55.:26:58.

targets, they knew beforehand what they would hit. Essentially what we

:26:59.:27:03.

understand if they hit an oilfield under control of Isis militants in

:27:04.:27:09.

the east of Syria, an area called Omar, apparently, and they hit six

:27:10.:27:14.

targets in that oil fields, apparently, according to Michael

:27:15.:27:17.

Fallon, Defence Secretary, heating the wellheads. He said the mission

:27:18.:27:21.

was successful but they are still assessing the damage so we should

:27:22.:27:24.

perhaps he later in the day exactly what they managed to achieve. But

:27:25.:27:29.

clearly the significance of this is trying to take out the sources of

:27:30.:27:43.

revenue which Isis has, and the oilfields, several of them, are very

:27:44.:27:45.

important. They bring millions of dollars in revenue to the militants,

:27:46.:27:48.

so very significant revenue streams. It is only recently, actually, over

:27:49.:27:50.

the last few weeks or months, that any of the coalition partners led by

:27:51.:27:53.

the United States have started attacking the oilfields or the

:27:54.:27:57.

tankers taking the oil to the markets, which, in a way, is

:27:58.:28:01.

strange, given how much money they have been bringing to the militants

:28:02.:28:05.

to enable them to operate. But certainly the Americans and also the

:28:06.:28:11.

Russians have been bombing them over the last few weeks.

:28:12.:28:16.

Four Tornados each carrying three massive ?500-macro bombs, the jets

:28:17.:28:20.

returning without the bombs. Do we know how many oilfields, how much

:28:21.:28:24.

damage has been caused by those bonds? -- three massive 500 pounds

:28:25.:28:31.

bombs. My understanding is it was one

:28:32.:28:38.

oilfields, but I maybe wrong. Within that, they hit six different

:28:39.:28:42.

targets, the wellheads, so basically it. Then being able to get the flow

:28:43.:28:47.

of oil and being able to sell it on into the market, as I was saying.

:28:48.:28:51.

But at the moment we are waiting for the information to find out about

:28:52.:28:54.

how successful that targeting has been.

:28:55.:28:58.

OK, thank you, Richard Galpin in Cyprus.

:28:59.:29:01.

Let's come back to Britain, Alex Dunlop is at RAF mark. What has been

:29:02.:29:12.

happening there? Hopefully will be able to hear me

:29:13.:29:15.

over the din of another plane taking off, it has been very busy in the

:29:16.:29:18.

last ten minutes. Just before 9am this morning we saw one Tornado

:29:19.:29:20.

rolling down RAF Marham's long runway, taking off into the rather

:29:21.:29:23.

leaden sky above me. It was followed ten minutes later by another GR

:29:24.:29:31.

four, both safely en route to that base at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus. Once

:29:32.:29:37.

they are there they will join eight RAF Marham Tornados which are

:29:38.:29:40.

already based on the Mediterranean island. They have been there for the

:29:41.:29:46.

last 15 months also, patrolling the skies over Iraq, carrying out

:29:47.:29:51.

reconnaissance sorties and also as strikes up to 400 air strikes, and

:29:52.:29:56.

as Craig said it would double the RAF strike aircraft contingent from

:29:57.:30:04.

eight to 16. You can probably hear another RAF Tornado taking off

:30:05.:30:07.

behind me, I hope you can hear me. It is a very old hairpin, about 40

:30:08.:30:13.

years old. That said, it is bristling with technology, both in

:30:14.:30:16.

the cockpit and under the Fuser large,. It is a very valuable,

:30:17.:30:24.

proven asset, it has seen action in both golf pause, Afghanistan, Libya,

:30:25.:30:32.

back to Iraq and now, as of last night, back over Syria.

:30:33.:30:36.

Thank you very much, Alex Dunlop at RAF locking, Craig Anderson at RAF

:30:37.:30:40.

Lossiemouth and Richard Galpin at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus.

:30:41.:30:48.

We'll speak to Lyse Doucet. I spoke to her earlier, she was explaining

:30:49.:30:55.

how President Assad's government's responded to Britain's decision to

:30:56.:31:01.

end the conflict in Syria. President Assad has been absolutely scathing

:31:02.:31:06.

in his criticism of the West's engagement here. Before the British

:31:07.:31:09.

vote, he dismissed the air campaign in saying it hasn't stopped the

:31:10.:31:14.

advance of Islamic state. Now this morning, the state news agency has

:31:15.:31:18.

accused the Prime Minister, David Cameron, of lying, saying they are

:31:19.:31:24.

jumping over, as they put it, international legitimacy in not

:31:25.:31:27.

doing like Russia did in seeking formal permission from the Syrian

:31:28.:31:31.

government to start bombing in Syrian air space. This is what the

:31:32.:31:35.

government's been saying here for some time, that if you would like

:31:36.:31:38.

this campaign to succeed, you have to have one command and at the

:31:39.:31:43.

centre of that command has to be Syrian government forces. In

:31:44.:31:46.

military sense, that makes absolute sense when you go to war, better to

:31:47.:31:52.

have one command with one goal but that's unthinkable for Britain and

:31:53.:31:55.

its allies and for Syrian opposition groups to fight alongside the man

:31:56.:32:05.

they see as the main enemy enemy. It's a reminder of how complex and

:32:06.:32:09.

bloody this battlefield is that Britain is now engaging in.

:32:10.:32:15.

You have been talking to citizens in Damascus, what do they say about yet

:32:16.:32:20.

more bombs being dropped in parts of their country? Remember that this is

:32:21.:32:26.

a country with an absolutely devastating war that is now going

:32:27.:32:33.

into its fifth year that large swathes of this country were

:32:34.:32:38.

absolutely ravaged. Five miles from where I'm standing in the relative

:32:39.:32:58.

centre, but five miles away are neighbourhoods that are totally

:32:59.:33:02.

empty. We asked people what they thought of the possible British air

:33:03.:33:07.

strikes, most didn't register that Britain would become involved but of

:33:08.:33:10.

course they welcome any action against the Islamic state, but

:33:11.:33:13.

that's just one part of a very messy and very bloody war that is going to

:33:14.:33:17.

take a very long time to end. So what they want to know most of all,

:33:18.:33:22.

is that this is going to be an action that will eventually bring

:33:23.:33:26.

this war to an end, not intensify it and make it even worse.

:33:27.:33:33.

Let me bring you this news to do with Oscar Pistorius.

:33:34.:33:37.

An Appeal Court in South-Africa has ruled that the conviction of Oscar

:33:38.:33:40.

Pistorius for culpable homicide should be replaced with murder.

:33:41.:33:50.

Mr Oscar Pistorius will have to go back to court. The Pistorius family

:33:51.:33:56.

say, we have taken note of the judgment that's been handed down by

:33:57.:34:00.

the Supreme Court of Appeal, the legal team will study the finding

:34:01.:34:05.

and we'll be guided by them. We won't comment further at this stage.

:34:06.:34:08.

Alongside the debate about whether to bomb so-called Islamic

:34:09.:34:12.

state yesterday ran one of slightly less importance -

:34:13.:34:15.

There are at least five names for the group - Islamic State, IS, Isis,

:34:16.:34:20.

Until now, David Cameron has insisted on calling the group Isil

:34:21.:34:26.

and criticised those, the BBC included, calling it anything else.

:34:27.:34:30.

But as he urged MPs to back air strikes in Syria yesterday,

:34:31.:34:34.

Mr Cameron changed his mind, saying they should be referred to as Daesh.

:34:35.:34:43.

America's leading the world in the fight to degrade and ultimately

:34:44.:35:13.

destroy the group known as Isil. Isil hasn't come from nowhere, it's

:35:14.:35:16.

not funded by nobody, it doesn't sell its oil to nobody, it doesn't

:35:17.:35:19.

receive its arms from nowhere. Intelligence by MI6 and other

:35:20.:35:45.

agencies has convinced him that some of the attacks are being directed by

:35:46.:35:51.

a hard core of leadership in Syria belonging to so-called Islamic

:35:52.:35:55.

state. I've corresponded with the BBC about their use of "IS", Islamic

:35:56.:36:01.

state which is even worse than either saying so-called IS or indeed

:36:02.:36:06.

Isil, but Daesh is clearly an improvement. I think it's important

:36:07.:36:07.

we all try and use this language. We can speak now with Hassan Hassan,

:36:08.:36:33.

who researches IS for the foreign affairs think-tank Chatham House

:36:34.:36:36.

and calls them Islamic State. And Miqdaad Versi from the

:36:37.:36:39.

Muslim Council of Britain, Good morning, why call them Islamic

:36:40.:36:50.

state? I call them that because they call themselves that. After the Iraq

:36:51.:36:55.

war, the group was established, the previous incarnation of the group

:36:56.:36:59.

was established, it used to be called Al-Qaeda in Iraq, then in

:37:00.:37:03.

200, they changed their name to Islamic state in Iraq, but the

:37:04.:37:07.

Americans kept using the word Al-Qaeda in Iraq for some time.

:37:08.:37:14.

Until the group left Al-Qaeda in 2013 and called itself Islamic state

:37:15.:37:18.

of Iraq and Syria, Isis, that's when the Americans and everyone else

:37:19.:37:25.

started using the word Isil, the acronym, or Isis.

:37:26.:37:29.

I think they have not caught up to the fact that the group has renamed

:37:30.:37:34.

itself, or rebranded itself as Islamic state. They are called

:37:35.:37:40.

Islamic state for the simple reason that they want to counter the

:37:41.:37:44.

tendency to say to not call them Islamic state, just to not

:37:45.:37:48.

legitimize it. I think this idea's misguided. You mean people say don't

:37:49.:37:54.

call it Islamic state because it legitimizes murder and heinous

:37:55.:37:57.

terrorists? Yes. David Cameron's been saying that. I think that's

:37:58.:38:01.

misguided because when you don't call it Islamic state, because you

:38:02.:38:06.

think that Islamic state as an idea is more pure, there's smog better

:38:07.:38:14.

and more ideal about the idea. You are addressing the group itself,

:38:15.:38:19.

rather than the idea and the basically the roots of the idea. I

:38:20.:38:25.

think that is dealing with the group rather than the idea. Miqdad, you go

:38:26.:38:34.

with Daesh, explain why? Daesh for me is for the local population and

:38:35.:38:38.

everyone else in the region, that is what they call it. It comes from

:38:39.:38:43.

Boak haarment and others, it's what the local population call them. They

:38:44.:38:50.

call themselves other things, but nobody calls them that other than

:38:51.:38:56.

than themselves. It's not the fact they call themselves, that's not

:38:57.:38:59.

what other media organisations do, we have to recognise what's become

:39:00.:39:04.

the term that is used in the local population. What is really important

:39:05.:39:09.

is that when it comes to the media here in the UK and how the

:39:10.:39:14.

population perceives this, we recognise, and it's seen from

:39:15.:39:19.

experts who look to Islamophobia, that the terminology in the media

:39:20.:39:23.

plays a role in the formation of the link between Islam and terrorism

:39:24.:39:35.

extremism. Don't you think the audience know what kind of a group

:39:36.:39:41.

they are? People who throw gay people off buildings, behead Western

:39:42.:39:45.

journalists and aid workers and rape women? Of course. Maybe I would have

:39:46.:39:49.

a less worry about this, but the problem is that we have a situation

:39:50.:39:56.

where over a quarter of young children believe Islam and terrorism

:39:57.:40:00.

are linked. Over half the population in the UK believe that Islam is a

:40:01.:40:05.

threat to our civilisation and liberty. These things don'ts happen

:40:06.:40:10.

by themselves, hey happen through this constant link between Islam and

:40:11.:40:14.

extremism. It's right that we need to talk about the issue and the

:40:15.:40:18.

yetteds of whether there should be an Islamic state which some people

:40:19.:40:24.

find important. They should be discussed openly and without any

:40:25.:40:27.

trouble at all. There is a big difference between that and the term

:40:28.:40:30.

used which, when you talk to Al-Qaeda, we don't translate the

:40:31.:40:37.

term, the Taliban, we don't translate, Boko Haram we don't

:40:38.:40:41.

translate. In Arabic, people are divided inside

:40:42.:40:45.

Syria and Iraq over what they call it. Islamic state don't call

:40:46.:40:52.

themselves that, but people who don't see themselves as part of the

:40:53.:40:56.

organisation, they call it something else. Any of those are fine. In

:40:57.:41:01.

English, translating is not normal. OK. Daesh, there is no consensus of

:41:02.:41:08.

the use in Arabic of the word Daesh, some people who don't like the

:41:09.:41:12.

organisation and people also who don't call the organisation also

:41:13.:41:14.

call it something else. Go all right, we are going to leave it

:41:15.:41:20.

there. Thank you. Not sure we are any clearer necessarily but we

:41:21.:41:22.

appreciate your contributions. An Appeal Court in South-Africa has

:41:23.:41:35.

ruled that the conviction of Oscar Pistorius for culpable homicide

:41:36.:41:39.

should be replaced with murder. Mr Oscar Pistorius will have to go

:41:40.:41:41.

back to court. The Pistorius family say, we have taken note of the

:41:42.:41:44.

judgment that's been handed down by the Supreme Court of Appeal, the

:41:45.:41:47.

legal team will study the finding and we'll be guided by them. We

:41:48.:41:50.

won't comment further at this stage. The court heard that mistakes had

:41:51.:41:53.

been made in the first trial of the runner, who shot his girlfriend

:41:54.:41:56.

Reeva Steenkamp in February 2013. The defendant should have been found

:41:57.:42:04.

guilty of murder. On a proper appraisal of the facts, he ought to

:42:05.:42:09.

have been convicted, not of culpable homicide but of murder on that

:42:10.:42:13.

count. In the interests of justice, the conviction and sentence imposed

:42:14.:42:16.

must be set aside and the conviction substituted with a conviction of the

:42:17.:42:18.

correct offence. Let's get more from criminal

:42:19.:42:30.

barrister Mani vest spvp itz who is in Pretoria. Your reaction to the

:42:31.:42:34.

overturning of the murder charge? I think the reaction is very simple. I

:42:35.:42:42.

think it's correct. -- Mannie Witz. It was found that on a question of

:42:43.:42:46.

law, the application of the law in South Africa what you would call

:42:47.:42:50.

second degree murder in the UK was wrongly applied by the judge and

:42:51.:42:54.

it's a question of law and, in terms of our criminal procedure act based

:42:55.:42:59.

on English law with a smatter of Roman Dutch law, they are entitled

:43:00.:43:02.

to substitute the correct conviction baseden a question of law and

:43:03.:43:06.

they'll end up with a further question of law, whether the

:43:07.:43:09.

circumstantial evidence which surrounded the matter, including the

:43:10.:43:13.

blastic evidence given on the reconstruction of the actual scene

:43:14.:43:15.

where the shooting took place should have been taken into account by the

:43:16.:43:21.

learned judge in the trial court which it was felt wasn't correctly

:43:22.:43:26.

done and they have now substituted which they believe that they have

:43:27.:43:29.

concurred is the correct decision. It's been changed from manslaughter

:43:30.:43:33.

or culpable homicide, negligent killing of a human being to murder,

:43:34.:43:37.

as you would call it in the UK, second degree murder, in other words

:43:38.:43:41.

it's not premeditated. Not premeditated? But intending to kill,

:43:42.:43:49.

is that the crucial bit? The crucial bit is that in any law in which we

:43:50.:43:53.

follow the English law in order to murder, you have to have intention,

:43:54.:43:57.

criminal intention. If there's no criminal intention, there's no

:43:58.:44:05.

murder, it can only be a competent manslaughter or culpable homicide

:44:06.:44:08.

conviction. They are confident that the way he acted was intentional and

:44:09.:44:13.

he should have realised that whoever was behind the door, including the

:44:14.:44:19.

late Reeva, that by his actions, he caused the fatal injury as it

:44:20.:44:22.

happened in this particular case. That's intention, one you have got

:44:23.:44:26.

intention it's murder, but it's not premeditated. I understand. It's not

:44:27.:44:32.

murder as us call it. Oscar Pistorius spent a year in jail and

:44:33.:44:36.

is now several years under house arrest for culpable homicide. He now

:44:37.:44:41.

presumably goes back to court for a new sentence? Yes, definitely. Part

:44:42.:44:46.

of the court order was that they referred it back to the trial court,

:44:47.:44:54.

the honourable Judge Musipa. In terms of the legislation, which for

:44:55.:44:58.

a first offender like Oscar Pistorius, is a minimum of 15 years

:44:59.:45:04.

and a maximum of 20, unless you can show compelling circumstances why

:45:05.:45:07.

the could should differ from the minimum sentence, that is the

:45:08.:45:12.

sentence you will get, so probably a minimum of 15. They'll take into

:45:13.:45:17.

account the one year he's already served. He'll get something off for

:45:18.:45:22.

that, minimum of a year and if there are other compelling circumstances,

:45:23.:45:25.

which I believe there are, in regards to his disability and

:45:26.:45:30.

various other parts of mitigation, they might be in a position to

:45:31.:45:35.

reduce the sentence from the minimum of 15 years which our legislation

:45:36.:45:40.

allows for. Thank you very much.

:45:41.:45:47.

Still tocology. As British planes drop bombs on self-styled Islamic

:45:48.:45:52.

state targets in Syria, we'll talk to a former RAF Tornado pilot

:45:53.:45:55.

expecting to carry out future missions. Time for the weather now

:45:56.:45:58.

with Alex. It has been quite mild in the South,

:45:59.:46:12.

but to the north it has been quite chilly. We have got this divisive

:46:13.:46:18.

weather front. Stepping outside this morning, the temperatures do not

:46:19.:46:21.

feel like December in the South. Further north, much colder, down to

:46:22.:46:25.

-3 parts Scotland overnight. Temperatures rising with the help of

:46:26.:46:31.

a bit of sunshine but that boundary, that Waldrom front, is providing

:46:32.:46:37.

some soggy conditions. The rain pushing back into Wales and

:46:38.:46:40.

south-west England later on. Across the Midlands, much of eastern

:46:41.:46:43.

England, staying dry. Staying dry in the far north, but staying cold.

:46:44.:46:50.

Look at the temperature contrast. 13, 14 across the south-east, maybe

:46:51.:46:54.

15 in some sunshine. There will be some snow on the hills in southern

:46:55.:46:58.

Scotland and Northern Ireland, then the wet weather pushes away

:46:59.:47:02.

overnight. Behind it, clear skies, so it will be a much colder night

:47:03.:47:05.

across England and Wales, temperatures widely down to single

:47:06.:47:09.

figures and across the Glens of Scotland there could be a touch of

:47:10.:47:13.

frost. A bright start tomorrow, the many bus a sunny day, a few showers

:47:14.:47:21.

in the far north-west, where the rainwater and persistent later on

:47:22.:47:24.

and the breeze will pick up, too, but for many a fine day. Still a big

:47:25.:47:28.

temperature contrast, the cooler, fresher feel across England and

:47:29.:47:33.

Wales but still above average. We will see some lively weather on

:47:34.:47:36.

Friday night, getting very windy indeed for the start of the weekend,

:47:37.:47:41.

and there will be spousal rain as well, but it won't rain all weekend.

:47:42.:47:42.

But it will be blustery on Saturday. It's Thursday, just after 10am,

:47:43.:47:47.

I'm Victoria Derbyshire. This morning:

:47:48.:47:49.

British warplanes have already They set off from their base

:47:50.:47:58.

in Cyprus only hours after MPs voted by a majority

:47:59.:48:02.

of 174 to back the action. I don't rest easy with the decision

:48:03.:48:15.

that has been made because I have to think of people who are in Syria and

:48:16.:48:19.

people who now have to live with the consequences of those decisions. It

:48:20.:48:25.

was a huge burden yesterday and actually I would not say there were

:48:26.:48:29.

thousands of relief. I was comfortable with the outcome.

:48:30.:48:31.

A South African judge rules that Oscar Pistorius should have been

:48:32.:48:34.

convicted of murder, not culpable homicide, because he had fired the

:48:35.:48:52.

fatal shots that killed his girlfriend with criminal intent.

:48:53.:48:57.

The matter is referred back to the court in the light of these

:48:58.:49:00.

comments. Plus, yet another mass shooting

:49:01.:49:02.

in the United States - this time at a health centre for disabled people

:49:03.:49:05.

in California, where at least There was a shooter in the

:49:06.:49:22.

building, and they ran into a room and locked the door. I told her,

:49:23.:49:26.

turn off the lights, and I haven't tried to call her... I didn't want

:49:27.:49:30.

the phone ringing. Britain has carried out

:49:31.:49:36.

its first air strikes in Syria, just hours after MPs voted

:49:37.:49:42.

in favour of military action. Jets set off from the British base

:49:43.:49:58.

in Cyprus, targeting so-called Islamic State

:49:59.:50:00.

targets in the east of the country. The jets dropped 500lb laser-guided

:50:01.:50:03.

bombs on oil fields The Defence Secretary Michael Fallon

:50:04.:50:05.

said I can confirm that four British

:50:06.:50:07.

Tornadoes were in action after the vote last night, attacking oilfields

:50:08.:50:18.

in eastern Syria. Attacking oil wellheads and helping

:50:19.:50:26.

to disrupt the flow of revenue that diets get from the flow of oil.

:50:27.:50:28.

The Government won the vote comfortably with with a majority

:50:29.:50:31.

More than 60 Labour MPs backed the Government in last night's

:50:32.:50:34.

Commons vote, including Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn.

:50:35.:50:39.

It is now time for us to do our bit in Syria,

:50:40.:50:43.

which is why I ask my colleagues to vote for this motion tonight.

:50:44.:50:51.

14 people have been killed in a mass shooting at

:50:52.:50:53.

The attackers, a woman and a man in their 20s, were shot dead by police.

:50:54.:51:01.

It is the deadliest attack in the US since a school shooting

:51:02.:51:04.

Oscar Pistorius has been found guilty of murdering his girlfriend

:51:05.:51:16.

The decision by South Africa's Supreme Court overturns a previous

:51:17.:51:19.

The judge said he had fired the fatal shots with criminal intent.

:51:20.:51:27.

Guilty of murder with the accused having had criminal intent in the

:51:28.:51:35.

form of dolus eventualis. The matter is referred back to the trial court

:51:36.:51:39.

to consider an appropriate sentence afresh in light of the comments in

:51:40.:51:41.

this judgment. Let's catch up with all

:51:42.:51:47.

the sport now. Arrests at Fifa make

:51:48.:51:54.

the headlines once more. Two "high-ranking" Fifa officials

:51:55.:51:56.

taken by Swiss authorities on suspicion of accepting 'millions

:51:57.:52:00.

of dollars' worth of bribes.' Our sports news correspondent

:52:01.:52:04.

Richard Conway is Swiss authorities have confirmed two

:52:05.:52:14.

arrests were made at this hotel, where a number of Fifa officials

:52:15.:52:17.

were arrested back in May this year. They have not been

:52:18.:52:20.

were arrested back in May this yet, the two people taken this

:52:21.:52:27.

morning, but unconfirmed reports named them as two senior figures in

:52:28.:52:31.

South America, Central American football, significantly men who are

:52:32.:52:36.

Fifa vice president that have been arrested by the Swiss authorities on

:52:37.:52:40.

behalf of those US prosecutors. We will get more information on this

:52:41.:52:44.

later today, however senior the first sources told me that as many

:52:45.:52:48.

as 16 people could be indicted today, names could be revealed later

:52:49.:52:56.

wins the US authorities are prepared to release the information.

:52:57.:52:57.

And some news we have just receieved from Zurich - Fifa's executive

:52:58.:53:00.

committee will debate a proposal to expand the World Cup

:53:01.:53:02.

They wouldn't require votes from the 209 member countries and it could be

:53:03.:53:08.

From Switzerland to India now, and Great Britain's men's hockey team

:53:09.:53:14.

They are competing in the World League finals, and have already

:53:15.:53:21.

beaten the world's best side, Australia, in the group stages.

:53:22.:53:24.

Our Olympic sports reporter David McDaid is there ahead of their

:53:25.:53:27.

Great Britain already have reason to be pleased with their weak's work

:53:28.:53:37.

here, with two wins and a draw taking them through to the quarter

:53:38.:53:44.

finals as the poor winners. They beat Australia, the world champions

:53:45.:53:48.

and the world number ones. Later today, they face hosts India. India

:53:49.:53:51.

have had a different week to the Brits, only picking a 1 point from

:53:52.:53:55.

three matches but tonight here they will be roared on by 4000 passionate

:53:56.:54:01.

local fans. Here are the thoughts of both camps. They play attacking

:54:02.:54:05.

hockey, they have a lot of skilful players. What we hope to do is take

:54:06.:54:09.

the game to them. They are a good side, they have a lot of players. It

:54:10.:54:13.

will be top. They have beaten Australia with a good margin so it

:54:14.:54:18.

will be a tough game for us, but we're really happy that we're in the

:54:19.:54:22.

quarterfinals and have it has to be in the semifinals. We are looking

:54:23.:54:24.

forward to it. If Great Britain can come through

:54:25.:54:28.

against the Indians later on, they will play either Argentina or

:54:29.:54:32.

Belgium for a place in Sunday's final.

:54:33.:54:32.

Best of to Great Britain. That's all the sport for now

:54:33.:54:34.

but we'll have the League Cup and some big rugby news for you

:54:35.:54:37.

at around 10.30am. Thank you for all of your reaction

:54:38.:54:50.

to the fact that British planes are involved in military action in Syria

:54:51.:54:56.

on IS targets. This tweet: Where was all the opposition last year to the

:54:57.:55:00.

bombing of bias in Iraq? This from Tony: Here we go, the war

:55:01.:55:04.

movie complete with slow motion replay, bomb by bomb analysis and

:55:05.:55:10.

fourth umpire decision review. This from Charles: I watched the

:55:11.:55:14.

entire debate yesterday and whilst I had no wish to see further military

:55:15.:55:18.

action I was persuaded by the 'yes' lobby and particularly the wonderful

:55:19.:55:22.

and sincere speech made by the Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary

:55:23.:55:25.

Benn. We must take the fight to them, not sit and wait for the fight

:55:26.:55:29.

to come to our streets. The 'no' lobby failed to convince me that

:55:30.:55:33.

they had a coherent alternative strategy. I support the SNP but I

:55:34.:55:37.

have to say I am disappointed by their stance. Have they forgotten

:55:38.:55:45.

the attack on Glasgow airports so soon?

:55:46.:55:55.

Isis are a threat to our country, our pilots are the best in the

:55:56.:55:58.

world, stay safe. One says, what would those people

:55:59.:56:02.

say to the families of aid workers and journalists tortured and

:56:03.:56:06.

beheaded by the ruthless IS Kers also the Syrian girls used as sex

:56:07.:56:11.

slaves, the old women and gay people murdered at the hands of IS? And

:56:12.:56:17.

Danny, I am not a Conservative voter but I gladly support air strikes.

:56:18.:56:22.

This evil has to be eradicated. If Jeremy Corbyn was Prime Minister, he

:56:23.:56:26.

would gladly let Isis do as they please.

:56:27.:56:29.

Thank you for those, keep them coming in.

:56:30.:56:31.

The news overnight is that British games have dropped bombs on Islamic

:56:32.:56:35.

State target in Syria and are now back at their base in Cyprus. It

:56:36.:56:41.

happened within hours of MPs voting to extend British military

:56:42.:56:43.

involvement to Serbia. What impact could the British air

:56:44.:56:46.

strikes have on the fight against IS? Christian Fraser has been

:56:47.:56:52.

looking at this. A lot of the focus is today was on

:56:53.:56:57.

Syria, but it is worth remembering so-called Islamic state is no

:56:58.:57:01.

respect of international borders, so their control and leadership is as

:57:02.:57:04.

much but it is worth remembering so-called Islamic state is no

:57:05.:57:06.

respect of international borders, so their control and leadership is as

:57:07.:57:11.

much focused. That is why over the last year also 8000 air strikes in

:57:12.:57:15.

all, twice as many, have been focused in Iraq as Syria, all the

:57:16.:57:20.

way to November. Let me show you the map for a second, we will go in some

:57:21.:57:35.

closer detail. The areas they have been focusing on, this corridor here

:57:36.:57:37.

from IS headquarters in Raqqa along this mean arterial route through the

:57:38.:57:40.

biggest city in the east of the city down to what we call the Sunni

:57:41.:57:42.

Triangle where the Shia led militias are trying to get a foothold. To

:57:43.:57:47.

remind you of what went on overnight, we know the plane set off

:57:48.:57:51.

from over year, Cyprus, from Akrotiri. The bombs that were

:57:52.:57:55.

dropped, as the Defence Secretary was saying, the Omagh oilfield here,

:57:56.:57:58.

the installations from which Islamic State have been profiting. Let's

:57:59.:58:04.

just have a look again, though, at this bomb pattern that I was talking

:58:05.:58:08.

about. You will see where they have been dropped, I have put them in

:58:09.:58:12.

blue circles. Hilary Benn quite elegantly was saying last night that

:58:13.:58:15.

air strikes alone will not change the picture on the ground, and that

:58:16.:58:19.

is true, but what they do is stop Islamic State from amassing hardware

:58:20.:58:22.

and troop build-up in areas where they could take new ground, so they

:58:23.:58:26.

stop them from going to Baghdad, this stop them from going to a town

:58:27.:58:32.

in the north of the country, they have been influential in doing that.

:58:33.:58:37.

If I show you this purple band here, this is the Kurds. If I showed you

:58:38.:58:40.

that a year ago it would do differently, so they have been able

:58:41.:58:45.

to take back control of some areas. Let's have a look at the targets.

:58:46.:58:50.

Many of the targets are fixed, the oil infrastructure which they are

:58:51.:58:54.

increasingly hitting, but also buildings, fighting positions,

:58:55.:58:58.

artillery positions on the ground. These targets are becoming fewer and

:58:59.:59:03.

farther between. A military analyst from the Royal United Services

:59:04.:59:05.

Institute has been telling me that the battle on the ground is

:59:06.:59:11.

changing. Those big, obvious area targets that

:59:12.:59:15.

can be preplanned before a fight, go out and hit this specifically, those

:59:16.:59:19.

have been hit. But in terms of forces on the ground that we can

:59:20.:59:24.

usefully in support of Turkish fighters and Free Syrian Army, there

:59:25.:59:27.

is definitely stuff there but it is harder to find. More dispersed, the

:59:28.:59:34.

RAF hugely effective at surveillance and picking up targets like this,

:59:35.:59:39.

this was a building being used by IS fighters in Ramadi. A drone involved

:59:40.:59:46.

in this particular occasion and the Paveway bomb that. There, a smaller

:59:47.:59:50.

munition than the ones the Americans are using, highly accurate,

:59:51.:59:53.

laser-guided so long as you pick the right target, of course. Just

:59:54.:59:57.

returning to the maps, the big questions on the lives of everyone

:59:58.:00:02.

yesterday, who is going to take control of Syria? It looks like a

:00:03.:00:07.

big paint job, it shows you how congested the battlefield is at the

:00:08.:00:11.

moment. Among the 70,000 moderate troops to which the Prime Minister

:00:12.:00:22.

referred, the Kurds, the so-called free Syrian forces and a lot of

:00:23.:00:25.

other smaller groups as well, often aligned to more extreme elements

:00:26.:00:27.

which are dominant, they have to be in this area in order to survive,

:00:28.:00:30.

and their main target is President Assad. Still an awful lot of work to

:00:31.:00:33.

do in Syria to find anything approaching a chord and their main

:00:34.:00:35.

target is President Assad. Still an awful lot of work to do in Syria to

:00:36.:00:38.

find anything approaching a, Christian.

:00:39.:00:42.

Jonathan Beale, our defence correspondent has been speaking

:00:43.:00:44.

to an RAF Tornado pilot, who's now expecting to fly over Syria.

:00:45.:00:51.

Talking ahead of yesterday's vote, the pilot said

:00:52.:00:53.

he didn't feel missions in Syrian airspace would be any more dangerous

:00:54.:00:56.

You've flown over Iraq. What do you think the differences will be flying

:00:57.:01:09.

combat missions over Syria? For myself as a tornado pilot, I feel

:01:10.:01:13.

like flying the tornado and moving to Syria will be doing the mission

:01:14.:01:17.

we are all trained to do, so in some respects, it will be no different.

:01:18.:01:25.

We do know that Syria has Russian aircraft there flying, it was

:01:26.:01:31.

recently Russian aircraft was downed, there are surface-to-air

:01:32.:01:34.

missiles, it's more dangerous isn't it? We have coordination measures in

:01:35.:01:42.

place in Syria, so if we were to go into Syria, I don't have any

:01:43.:01:45.

concerns about operating in Syrian air space. There are bigger threats

:01:46.:01:51.

there? Certainly threats there from Isis, we see that threat and operate

:01:52.:01:57.

with that threat in Iraq. The same threat as Syria. We have our own

:01:58.:02:03.

capabilities and tactics and techniques and procedures to

:02:04.:02:05.

minimise that threat to ourselves. Do you think you could make a

:02:06.:02:08.

difference on the ground? People are talking about this being a token

:02:09.:02:12.

evident essentially from the UK? We can absolutely make a difference.

:02:13.:02:17.

The tornado itself might be a slightly old platform but it's

:02:18.:02:20.

absolutely up-to-date with the capabilities it has. Some unique

:02:21.:02:28.

capabilities we bring to the operation, such as Brimstone,

:02:29.:02:31.

reconnaissance pod, absolutely up-to-date cutting edge platforms in

:02:32.:02:35.

terms of their capabilities. Very last question, when you are flying a

:02:36.:02:41.

mission, what is it like knowing that you are flying a combat

:02:42.:02:44.

mission, what do you think it would be like flying over Syria in a

:02:45.:02:48.

combat mission, just a sense of what it's like for you as a pilot knowing

:02:49.:02:54.

that you are targeting the enemy? Of course, it's serious, we take it

:02:55.:02:58.

very seriously, it's something that I've done a number of combat

:02:59.:03:02.

missions in a number of different theatres and I don't think myself

:03:03.:03:06.

I'll treat it any differently other than at the highest levels of

:03:07.:03:10.

professionalism possible, concentrating on the task and job we

:03:11.:03:14.

have been given. You will be more worried that it's over Syria that

:03:15.:03:17.

you are dealing with these missions? Absolutely not, no.

:03:18.:03:23.

Joining us now from Westminster is the

:03:24.:03:25.

He voted with his leader Jeremy Corbyn and

:03:26.:03:29.

against air strikes, unlike 11 of his shadow cabinet colleagues,

:03:30.:03:32.

What do you think of their colleagues? They voted in the athey

:03:33.:03:41.

wanted to with their conscience. That's why I called for a free vote.

:03:42.:03:47.

People will remember in Iraq all those years ago, the fact that you

:03:48.:03:50.

can party political decisions mixed in the vote seems to be wrong,

:03:51.:03:53.

whether you are going to back the leader or not. In matters of War and

:03:54.:03:57.

Peace, putting British troops in harm's way, it should be an MP's

:03:58.:04:01.

conscience and nothing else that decides that decision. I think

:04:02.:04:05.

people can have a high degree of confidence in the decisions that MPs

:04:06.:04:07.

reached last night because, on our side at least, that was purely in

:04:08.:04:14.

accordance with what they thought was the right thing to do. Do you

:04:15.:04:18.

not acknowledge that your leader failed to convince so many of your

:04:19.:04:22.

colleagues, almost a third of the Parliamentary party? Do you know, I

:04:23.:04:26.

think this issue really divides families and splits the country,

:04:27.:04:29.

it's a very split decision. I found that myself as I was weighing it up

:04:30.:04:35.

over the weeks running up to it. Very close decision, much harder in

:04:36.:04:39.

many ways than any other I've taken in Parliament and I think people

:04:40.:04:44.

have come down on either side of the lain. I don't think it's a bad thing

:04:45.:04:47.

that there's a difference of views within our party, but also within

:04:48.:04:52.

other parties in Parliament. I looked very carefully at what the

:04:53.:04:55.

Prime Minister was saying. I think you have to be as sure as you can be

:04:56.:05:00.

before you vote for military action. I just had too many doubts when it

:05:01.:05:04.

came to the vote last night, that's why I voted against.

:05:05.:05:08.

What swung it for you in the end then in terms of the doubts?

:05:09.:05:15.

I do think back to Iraq... Just remind us which way you voted for

:05:16.:05:21.

Iraq? I voted for. I've agonised about that decision ever since. Many

:05:22.:05:25.

in many ways, I can justify the original decision I took. What I

:05:26.:05:28.

can't justify is the lack of a plan for the aftermath. I was horrified

:05:29.:05:35.

as the chaos began to unfold in Iraq in years after the invasion. I

:05:36.:05:39.

applied that test to this vote. Was there a clear plan for Syria, for

:05:40.:05:44.

the aftermath? I couldn't see it. You know, the graphics you were just

:05:45.:05:48.

showing a moment ago kind of make the point - Syria is such a

:05:49.:05:54.

complicated situation right now. I didn't hear from the Prime Minister

:05:55.:05:56.

clarity about what was going to happen on the ground to those areas

:05:57.:06:00.

that were bombed, which troops would move in and secure it, I didn't hear

:06:01.:06:04.

the answers. That was the main reason why there were others too,

:06:05.:06:09.

but that was the main reason why I couldn't give my support to the air

:06:10.:06:13.

strikes last night. Some might say that because you voted against air

:06:14.:06:16.

strikes is alongside your leader Jeremy Corbyn, at least you won't

:06:17.:06:19.

get bullied by colleagues in your party for coming to a decision

:06:20.:06:22.

that's opposite what the leader wanted?

:06:23.:06:27.

It's outrageous that anybody should be bullied... Why isn't Mr Corbyn

:06:28.:06:31.

clamping down on it then? He has said something. I know how it feels

:06:32.:06:37.

because I voted for military action on a number of occasions. I promise

:06:38.:06:41.

you, it's the hardest thing you ever do in Parliament, it genuinely is.

:06:42.:06:45.

People agonise about it then go over and over it in the days after the

:06:46.:06:48.

vote and that will be happening today, MPs will be feeling like that

:06:49.:06:52.

today, that's how they'll be, feeling pretty down I guess some of

:06:53.:06:57.

them because nobody, nobody takes any relish in doing what's been

:06:58.:07:01.

done. I would ask people who're sending comments in just to think

:07:02.:07:04.

about that, these are decent people, they have done the right thing, as

:07:05.:07:08.

they saw it at the time, and they deserve a bit more respect than they

:07:09.:07:14.

sometimes get. People like Anne Coffee saying we are going to

:07:15.:07:18.

campaign from your e-mail selection coming from a group called Momentum

:07:19.:07:23.

which very much backs Jeremy Corbyn? It makes me sad about the current

:07:24.:07:26.

state of the Labour Party that people think they can treat somebody

:07:27.:07:32.

of that long-standing and experience in Parliament like Anne, could treat

:07:33.:07:36.

her in that way. She's served Stockport, her constituents, our

:07:37.:07:40.

party for many years, with distinction. People need to have a

:07:41.:07:42.

look at themselves before they think they can go around throwing threats

:07:43.:07:46.

at people like that. What should Jeremy Corbyn do? There's been a

:07:47.:07:50.

divisive situation, hasn't there, people have voted different ways. In

:07:51.:07:53.

the end, the right decision was taken. I'm asking you what the

:07:54.:07:56.

leader should do about the bullying of your colleagues? A firm line

:07:57.:08:02.

needs to be taken, a code of conduct around social media, there cannot be

:08:03.:08:05.

abuse of Members of Parliament by members of the Labour Party or

:08:06.:08:08.

supporters of the Labour Party. That isn't the kindparty I want to be in.

:08:09.:08:13.

It's not just on social media is it, another colleague of yours has

:08:14.:08:17.

people hassling her office staff? Staff?! Well, I know, that's just

:08:18.:08:23.

completely indefensible. We are many the public eye and we take those

:08:24.:08:28.

decisions and we have to be held accountable for them, absolutely, I

:08:29.:08:34.

fully and completely ex-that, but do it with respect -- expect that, but

:08:35.:08:40.

do it with respect. With the leader contest test in the summer it was

:08:41.:08:45.

the same, people are being put off going into it at all at local and

:08:46.:08:50.

councillor level. If you are sitting with a keyboard, you can be more

:08:51.:08:53.

offensive than you are if you are speaking to somebody face-to-face

:08:54.:08:57.

and it's a bad culture. We need to draw a line under it. So Jeremy

:08:58.:09:03.

Corbyn should introdues a code of conduct? I would say so. If there is

:09:04.:09:06.

evidence that people are abusive to colleagues in the Labour Party,

:09:07.:09:09.

there should be no tolerance of that whatsoever, in my view. Thank you

:09:10.:09:14.

very much. Can I just say before I left, how much I admire the work you

:09:15.:09:18.

have done to give courage to other cancer patients, you know, it really

:09:19.:09:21.

is a fantastic thing that you have been doing, I just wanted to say

:09:22.:09:22.

that. Thank you very much and thank you

:09:23.:09:37.

for talking to us. It's worth remembering who are

:09:38.:09:43.

involved, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Qatar are involved, countries like

:09:44.:09:49.

Italy who've given machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades,

:09:50.:09:51.

ammunition and humanitarian aid. Andrew Brookes, a former RAF pilot

:09:52.:09:55.

with 30 years experience and a former US Air Force special pilot,

:09:56.:09:59.

Nolan Peterson who's been involved in air strikes and Iraq and

:10:00.:10:05.

Afghanistan previously and Kinder Haddard from the group Air Wars,

:10:06.:10:11.

monitoring casualties in Syria. Andrew Brookes, four British planes

:10:12.:10:15.

involved so far, targeting oil fields under the control of IS, what

:10:16.:10:20.

is your reaction? It's part of a team, as you said. The question does

:10:21.:10:24.

it make a difference, we'll have to see. There's always been a theory

:10:25.:10:29.

that there are panacea targets, if you just take something out, the

:10:30.:10:33.

whole machine falls apart. Oil is a classic but if it worked the

:10:34.:10:36.

Americans would have done it years ago. The fact they have been bombing

:10:37.:10:40.

more than us and haven't closed the air down doesn't give me a warm

:10:41.:10:44.

fuzzy feeling that a few extra bombs from us will shut down that

:10:45.:10:47.

particular facility. On that point then, why do you think the Americans

:10:48.:10:50.

haven't taken out those oil fields so far? It's very difficult. People

:10:51.:10:55.

think, you know, you're used to playing Star Wars on your computer

:10:56.:10:59.

and everything, it all works. These things are massive. To get the right

:11:00.:11:04.

pinpoint, the right bottleneck, is incredibly difficult a thing to do.

:11:05.:11:06.

The Americans have the technology to do that? You say that, it's

:11:07.:11:12.

intelligence-based. At the end of the day, people don't want to take

:11:13.:11:16.

over a desert. You want to leave something there that, if you like,

:11:17.:11:20.

the good guys can take over. They want to take over a going state.

:11:21.:11:26.

Whoever wins this, they want to be up and running very quickly. If you

:11:27.:11:30.

give them a wasteland, you haven't really given anybody a chance to

:11:31.:11:36.

post Assad to create a new Syria. Nolan Peterson, you have flown many

:11:37.:11:39.

of the missions and have been involved in air strikes in Iraq and

:11:40.:11:44.

Afghanistan. Can you give our audience an insight into what it's

:11:45.:11:49.

like flying one of those jets? I think the greatest concern for my

:11:50.:11:56.

pilot obviously is to limit civilian casualties, but the unique nature of

:11:57.:12:00.

the wash in Syria and Iraq right now is that the battlefield is so

:12:01.:12:03.

complicated and there are so many different elements on the ground

:12:04.:12:06.

that it's tough for pilots to know who is good and who is bad. For

:12:07.:12:12.

example, in Syria, you have the forces of the regime of Bashar Assad

:12:13.:12:18.

on the ground next to the Free Syrian Army and Isis. So it's tough

:12:19.:12:23.

for pilots to know exactly who the elements on the ground are without

:12:24.:12:27.

our own troops there to tell us what we are shooting at.

:12:28.:12:31.

So as a pilot then in the scenario that we are seeing now in Syria, how

:12:32.:12:37.

do you get the right intelligence, or is it inevitable that mistakes

:12:38.:12:42.

are going to be made? Unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that

:12:43.:12:44.

mistakes will be made. Normally, you have a lot of different meetings to

:12:45.:12:50.

tell who is on the ground and Iraq and Afghanistan, when I flew, we had

:12:51.:12:54.

technology like blue force tracking where we'd have a Google map-type

:12:55.:13:02.

map that would show us where friendly units were with icons so we

:13:03.:13:10.

could verify where people were. We don't have that in Syria and Iraq.

:13:11.:13:19.

We have another system to tell us. Looking at patterns of life and the

:13:20.:13:25.

behaviour of the infrared images, that is how we decide whether we are

:13:26.:13:31.

shooting at the good or bad guys. How many civilians have been killed

:13:32.:13:39.

by coalition air strikes in Iraq so far in Syria? Over the last 15

:13:40.:13:44.

months, there's been at least we think a minimum of 700 in Iraq and

:13:45.:13:57.

Sir. -- Syria. We collate all this information from the ground, press

:13:58.:14:02.

reports, recorder, Twitter and Facebook, YouTube, as well as daily

:14:03.:14:09.

reports saying where and when they have bombed. How do you know they

:14:10.:14:13.

are civilians, as opposed to extremists for example? The casualty

:14:14.:14:18.

recorders on the ground often have people who interview casualties and

:14:19.:14:21.

we know about Syria in particular, about 300 of them, we have names,

:14:22.:14:30.

ages and what they did, where they lived and just under half are women

:14:31.:14:36.

and children. The thing is, Daesh is in civilian centres, so the target

:14:37.:14:40.

could be an IS headquarters, for example, but it's inevitable that

:14:41.:14:43.

you are going to destroy some of the houses around or passers-by. You

:14:44.:14:48.

might get faulty intelligence or civilians might go into a different

:14:49.:14:52.

zone after the bomb has been dropped, so it's just impossible not

:14:53.:14:58.

to have civilian casualties even though we have precise weaponry.

:14:59.:15:03.

Because we have precise weaponry, we have less casualties than the

:15:04.:15:10.

Russians or the Assad regime. Figures have been published and

:15:11.:15:15.

whereas Assad killed 1,000 civilians, the Russians killed 260

:15:16.:15:21.

and the regime killed 13. Some events are bigger. We have had 64

:15:22.:15:26.

people being killed in one go because they have targeted a weapons

:15:27.:15:31.

depot. That explodes and causes secondary explosions. Thank you very

:15:32.:15:32.

much. Thank you for your messages about

:15:33.:15:48.

what IS should be called. E-mail from Martin says I think the BBC

:15:49.:15:51.

should carry on calling them IS and not bow to David Cameron, everyone

:15:52.:15:55.

in Britain knows them as IS. This e-mail from John, I find it amusing,

:15:56.:16:01.

all this talk about what to call this bunch of murderers, it's

:16:02.:16:05.

political correctness gone mad, a good old English word everyone would

:16:06.:16:11.

understand, they should be known as "scum" it is everything they stand

:16:12.:16:18.

for. By calling IS their name of choice, we give them power, we

:16:19.:16:22.

should call them Daesh, not only is it an acronym of their true name but

:16:23.:16:28.

it's also an insult to their ears, calling them Daesh kills two birds

:16:29.:16:30.

with one stone. Yesterday we reported on

:16:31.:16:35.

the 50-year-old woman who rejected life-saving kidney treatment

:16:36.:16:41.

because she felt she'd "lost her Our legal affairs correspondent

:16:42.:16:43.

Clive Coleman is back Remind us of this sad case you

:16:44.:16:52.

reported on yesterday? It is a desperately sad case about a

:16:53.:16:56.

woman who lived a life of sparkle, a champagne lifestyle, if you like, a

:16:57.:17:01.

woman who had four husbands, affairs, her life, these are the

:17:02.:17:04.

words of her daughter, revolved around her looks, men, material

:17:05.:17:09.

possessions. In recent times she was diagnosed with breast cancer, she

:17:10.:17:13.

had not wanted treatment for that because she thought it would make

:17:14.:17:17.

her fact, she had also had a long-term relationship that had

:17:18.:17:31.

fallen apart, she had fallen into debt. As a result of that she'd try

:17:32.:17:34.

to take her own life, she took 16 paracetamol tablets which were

:17:35.:17:36.

washed down with some champagne. That damaged her organs and as a

:17:37.:17:38.

result of that she needed life-saving kidney dialysis

:17:39.:17:40.

treatment. She didn't want it because she did not want to grow

:17:41.:17:43.

old, she said she did not want to be old, poor and ugly. There was a

:17:44.:17:48.

hearing in November, mid-November, in which the trust that were

:17:49.:17:52.

treating her, the hospital trust, wanted to have the Court of

:17:53.:17:56.

protection, which makes decision for people who do not have mental

:17:57.:17:59.

capacity, to order that she had the treatment against her wishes. The

:18:00.:18:03.

judge, in an incredibly difficult case, had to listen to the evidence

:18:04.:18:08.

of psychiatrists and, critically, listen to the evidence of the

:18:09.:18:12.

woman's daughters, who gave evidence that she simply didn't want to

:18:13.:18:15.

continue to live a life where she got she was going to be old and

:18:16.:18:22.

ugly. The judge made an order, refused the application by the

:18:23.:18:26.

hospital, that happened in mid-November. She died Barbie sadly

:18:27.:18:30.

on Saturday but it was only actually on Monday that we became aware of

:18:31.:18:35.

the judgment, the judge published the full judgment, which is why

:18:36.:18:38.

there is a slightly cheery chronology.

:18:39.:18:43.

Thank you. -- slightly curious chronology.

:18:44.:18:46.

The political fallout from the the decision by parliament

:18:47.:18:50.

to back British air strikes against Islamic State militants in Syria.

:18:51.:18:53.

And as an appeals court in South Africa convicts the

:18:54.:18:59.

Oscar Pistorius of murder, we'll bring you the latest reaction

:19:00.:19:02.

Britain has carried out its first air strikes in Syria,

:19:03.:19:08.

just hours after MPs voted in favour of military action.

:19:09.:19:11.

Jets set off from the British base in Cyprus.

:19:12.:19:15.

They targetted Islamic State group targets in the east of the country.

:19:16.:19:18.

The jets dropped 500lb laser-guided bombs on oil fields

:19:19.:19:21.

The Defence Secretary Michael Fallon backing said

:19:22.:19:25.

I can confirm, first of all, that four British Tornado were involved

:19:26.:19:36.

in strikes in the early hours of this morning in the eastern oilfield

:19:37.:19:40.

in Syria, specifically the Omagh oilfield, attacking oil wellheads

:19:41.:19:46.

there, hoping to disrupt the flow of oil and the revenue that the

:19:47.:19:47.

Bayerische terrorists gain from oil. The Government won

:19:48.:19:50.

the vote comfortably with a majority More than 60 Labour MPs backed the

:19:51.:19:52.

Government vote, including Shadow Whether you are

:19:53.:20:15.

or not is not important. In matters of war and Besic had been the MP's

:20:16.:20:20.

conscience and nothing else that makes the decision. People can have

:20:21.:20:23.

a high degree of confidence in the decisions MPs reached last night,

:20:24.:20:27.

because, on our side at least, it was purely in accordance with what

:20:28.:20:30.

they thought was the right thing to do.

:20:31.:20:31.

14 people have been killed in a mass shooting at

:20:32.:20:34.

The attackers, a woman and a man in their 20s, were shot dead by police.

:20:35.:20:39.

It is the deadliest attack in the US since a school shooting

:20:40.:20:41.

Oscar Pistorius has been found guilty of murdering his girlfriend

:20:42.:20:47.

The decision by South Africa's Supreme Court overturns a previous

:20:48.:20:53.

The judge said he had fired the fatal shots with criminal intent.

:20:54.:21:02.

Guilty of murder, with the accused having had criminal intent

:21:03.:21:04.

The matter is referred back to the trial court to consider an

:21:05.:21:12.

appropriate sentence afresh in light of the comments in this judgment.

:21:13.:21:20.

There's other headlines come here is the sport.

:21:21.:21:23.

The main stories in sport this morning

:21:24.:21:27.

Swiss Aurthorities say they've take two 'high-ranking' Fifa officials

:21:28.:21:31.

They'll be discussing whether to expand the World Cup

:21:32.:21:45.

A great night for Liverpool, and the club's strikers especially -

:21:46.:21:53.

Divock Origi scored a hat-trick and Daniel Sturridge added two in their

:21:54.:21:56.

England fans might be wishing the RFU took a little longer

:21:57.:22:01.

Heyneke Meyer has stepped down as South Africa's head coach with

:22:02.:22:05.

immediate effect after leading the Springboks to

:22:06.:22:07.

And Great Britain's men are facing hosts India in the last eight

:22:08.:22:10.

of hockey's World League Finals this afternoon - they were unbeaten

:22:11.:22:13.

It could be a big day for them. We will have more sport including the

:22:14.:22:20.

latest from the UK study championship on BBC news throughout

:22:21.:22:22.

the day. Thank you. The vote that air strikes

:22:23.:22:26.

in Syria followed a ten hour debate on the right and wrong is of

:22:27.:22:31.

military action. Towards the end a powerful speech by the Shadow

:22:32.:22:33.

Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn was applauded by all sides of the house.

:22:34.:22:41.

Let's have a look. What is the reaction to the vote

:22:42.:22:47.

last night? Good morning. Do you have any reaction to the vote? I did

:22:48.:22:57.

not ask you to be here. Clearly that was Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour

:22:58.:23:00.

leader, reacting this morning as he left his home. I think we can hear

:23:01.:23:03.

Hilary Benn now in the Commons yesterday.

:23:04.:23:09.

Hopefully! Maybe not. Let's talk to Norman Smith instead, our political

:23:10.:23:13.

Guru at Westminster. Let's talk about Hilary Benn's speech, so many

:23:14.:23:19.

people were commenting on what a brilliant speech it was, and one of

:23:20.:23:23.

the best beaches in parliament ever. Explain to those who did not hear it

:23:24.:23:27.

what it contained? It is a shame we could not hear it,

:23:28.:23:32.

maybe we can in a few minutes. It was an amazing speech by him,

:23:33.:23:36.

because it was a moment when he held Parliament in his hands. The whole

:23:37.:23:40.

place was absolutely silent, gripped by what he had to say, not because

:23:41.:23:45.

it was a barnstorming rhetorical toured of course, it was because of

:23:46.:23:49.

the clarity of his arguments, the moral conviction with which he

:23:50.:23:54.

expressed them, and the scent of his own personal integrity which came

:23:55.:23:59.

across. But there was another reason, because it was also, I

:24:00.:24:03.

thought, a brave speech, a speech in which he basically confronted his

:24:04.:24:07.

own party and his own leader. Not in an abusive tone, but in which he

:24:08.:24:12.

laid down a direct challenge, saying to his party, look, we are an

:24:13.:24:17.

internationalist party, we cannot simply walk on by. We helped to

:24:18.:24:23.

found the United Nations, our sister Socialist party in France has

:24:24.:24:36.

appealed for our help, and, above all, Labour has always stood up

:24:37.:24:38.

against fascism, whether it was General Franco in Spain in the

:24:39.:24:41.

1930s, or Hitler's Nazis. You got a sense that he changed the mood in

:24:42.:24:44.

the house and some of those who were undecided actually came behind him

:24:45.:24:48.

because of his speech. I think we can now hear a bit of what he said.

:24:49.:24:55.

Socialist and trade unionists and others joined the International

:24:56.:24:58.

Brigade in the 1930s to fight against General Franco. It is why

:24:59.:25:04.

this entire house stood up against Hitler and Mussolini. It is why our

:25:05.:25:09.

party has always stood up against the denial of human rights and for

:25:10.:25:15.

justice. And my view, Mr Speaker, is that we must now confront this

:25:16.:25:21.

evil, it is now time for us to do our bit in Syria. And that is why I

:25:22.:25:28.

ask my colleagues to vote for this motion tonight.

:25:29.:25:35.

The reaction, you saw the reaction at the Commons, but even this

:25:36.:25:38.

morning MPs who have been around a long time are saying they have never

:25:39.:25:41.

seen anything like it. I was chatting with the Defence Secretary

:25:42.:25:44.

Michael Palin this morning, eight this was his reaction to the speech.

:25:45.:25:49.

It is one of the most impressive speeches I have seen in nearly 30

:25:50.:25:53.

years in Parliament. He put the argument extremely well. There were

:25:54.:25:58.

good speeches on both sides of the argument, and I think Parliament did

:25:59.:26:01.

justice to a very important decision.

:26:02.:26:05.

Even some of Mr Corbyn's supporters, you saw Mr Corbyn

:26:06.:26:11.

delivering the speech -- when he was delivering the speech, sitting

:26:12.:26:14.

slumped, flagging up the divide that is emerging this morning, John

:26:15.:26:18.

McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor, through gritted teeth, I thought,

:26:19.:26:23.

gave a rather nuanced response to the speech. Other listen to what he

:26:24.:26:27.

said. On the retreat itself, across the

:26:28.:26:33.

house, I thought the were excellent, Jeremy was careful in the way he

:26:34.:26:38.

approached it, I thought Hillary's rectory was great. It reminded me of

:26:39.:26:42.

Tony Blair's speech taking us into the Iraq war and I am always great

:26:43.:26:49.

test -- always aware of the greatest oratory but also the greatest

:26:50.:26:53.

mistakes as well. The greatest oratory can leaders

:26:54.:26:57.

into the greatest mistakes. He talked about the Tony Blair speech

:26:58.:27:02.

in 2002, I'm old enough to have been in the chamber when Tony Blair was

:27:03.:27:06.

making it. It was, again, one of those speeches which turned the

:27:07.:27:11.

mood. I have a clip of that. The outcome of this issue will now

:27:12.:27:16.

determine more than the fate of the Iraqi regime, more than the future

:27:17.:27:20.

of the Iraqi people, for so long brutalised by Saddam Hussein! ,

:27:21.:27:25.

important though those issues. It will determine the way Britain and

:27:26.:27:30.

the world confront the security threat of the 21st secretary, --

:27:31.:27:35.

21st-century, the relationship between Europe and the United

:27:36.:27:38.

States, relations within the European Union, and the way the

:27:39.:27:41.

United States engages with the rest of the world. It could hardly be

:27:42.:27:46.

more important will stop can I ask you, Norman, about the searing

:27:47.:27:53.

divisions in the Labour Party at the moment?

:27:54.:27:56.

We spoke to the Shadow Home Secretary Andy Burnham, I asked him

:27:57.:28:00.

about bullying of certain members who voted for air strikes. He called

:28:01.:28:04.

for Jeremy Corbyn to introduce a code of conduct for Labour members

:28:05.:28:11.

and supporters. It is pretty bad, isn't it? It is extraordinarily

:28:12.:28:16.

bad, not just the obvious division within the Labour Party, 66 Labour

:28:17.:28:21.

MPs, 11 members of the Shadow Cabinet, defying Jeremy Corbyn last

:28:22.:28:24.

night on what is one of the most fundamental issues we can ever face,

:28:25.:28:27.

War and peace. It is not just that but the nature

:28:28.:28:31.

of the division that is becoming increasingly bitter and personal and

:28:32.:28:37.

nasty. Not just, I think, on social media, though a lot of it is on

:28:38.:28:43.

social media, some of the stuff there has been pretty extraordinary.

:28:44.:28:47.

One Labour MP, Liz Kendall, yesterday received a tweet saying

:28:48.:28:51.

she should be part of the final solution, which would be a purge of

:28:52.:28:55.

Blairite scum like her. That gives you a sense of some of the animosity

:28:56.:29:02.

out there. The difficulty is this, many Labour MPs feel that although

:29:03.:29:06.

Mr Corbyn has condemned it, that he has also licensed it to some extent

:29:07.:29:10.

by almost encouraging the grass roots to put the squeeze on Labour

:29:11.:29:15.

MPs and the real fear is that some of them will basically be deselected

:29:16.:29:22.

because they are not corporate MPs. We heard Ken Livingstone this

:29:23.:29:25.

morning saying ineffective would be happy to see MPs who voted against

:29:26.:29:30.

Jeremy Corbyn deselected, and that is what is driving this, the fear

:29:31.:29:35.

that there is almost a hit list of non-Corbin MPs who risked being

:29:36.:29:38.

bumped off, and my sense is the Labour Party parliamentary party is

:29:39.:29:45.

now a profoundly disorganised and -- dysfunctional organisation at the

:29:46.:29:48.

moment where the leader is at odds with key figures in his own team,

:29:49.:29:53.

like Hilary Benn. You have a Parliamentary party at odds not just

:29:54.:29:55.

with the leader but with the party and the country, too.

:29:56.:29:59.

Thank you very much, Norman. Much more from Norman throughout the day

:30:00.:30:03.

on BBC News. This news just in to do with the BBC

:30:04.:30:07.

executive Alan Yentob, formerly the chairman of trustees of the failed

:30:08.:30:11.

Charity Kids Company, and the news is that he is stepping down,

:30:12.:30:41.

resigning as a BBC executive. Here is his statement: The BBC is

:30:42.:30:43.

going through particularly challenging times and I have come to

:30:44.:30:46.

believe that the speculation about Kids Company and the media coverage

:30:47.:30:48.

around my role is proving a serious distraction, so I have spoken to

:30:49.:30:50.

Tony Wall, the director-general, the boss of the BBC, and told him I

:30:51.:30:54.

think it is best I stepped down from Mike senior management role as

:30:55.:30:56.

creative director at the end of the year and focus on programme making

:30:57.:30:58.

and TV production, including the Imagine series. I love the BBC,

:30:59.:31:00.

continues the statement from Alan Yentob, and will continue to do

:31:01.:31:03.

everything I can to ensure it thrives and fulfils the great

:31:04.:31:05.

expectations we all have of it. This statement, too, from the

:31:06.:31:07.

director-general, Tony Hall, on the news that Alan Yentob is resigning

:31:08.:31:12.

as creative director of the BBC but will continue making programmes,

:31:13.:31:16.

this from Lord Paul: Allen is a towering figure in television, the

:31:17.:31:20.

arts, add a creative force for good for Britain.

:31:21.:31:23.

He served the BBC with distinction in a number of different executive

:31:24.:31:27.

roles, all of which characterised by his energy, creativity and

:31:28.:31:31.

commitment to public service. He has an extraordinary bulk of

:31:32.:31:34.

achievement. For the record, BBC News considered whether Alan Yentob

:31:35.:31:39.

had influenced the BBC's journalism on the reporting of Kids Company.

:31:40.:31:43.

They concluded that he did not. Despite that, I do stand his

:31:44.:31:58.

reasons. In doubt as creative director. He has been thinking about

:31:59.:32:00.

this carefully for some time and we have discussed it privately on a

:32:01.:32:03.

number of occasions. I'm pleased he will continue his work at the BBC as

:32:04.:32:06.

a programme maker in the future. There were reports that as a trustee

:32:07.:32:08.

of the failed charity Kids Company Alan Yentob was accused by a number

:32:09.:32:11.

of BBC journalists of trying to interfere with their coverage of

:32:12.:32:13.

what happened to Kids Company but as Tony Hill, director-general of the

:32:14.:32:17.

BBC, says in this statement, BBC News considered whether Alan Yentob

:32:18.:32:21.

had influenced the BBC News journalism on the coverage of Kids

:32:22.:32:24.

Company but concluded he did not. So the news is that Alan Yentob will

:32:25.:32:29.

no longer be a BBC executive, he will no longer be the creative

:32:30.:32:33.

director of the BBC, he is resigning from that role but will continue to

:32:34.:32:36.

make programmes. More reaction on that to come.

:32:37.:32:41.

Some reaction to the air strikes from Syrians living in this country

:32:42.:32:44.

in just a moment. 14 people have been killed and

:32:45.:32:46.

seventeen injured in a mass shooting A few hours later, two suspects,

:32:47.:32:50.

28-year-old Syed Farook, and 27-year-old Tashfeen Malik were shot

:32:51.:32:56.

dead in a gunfight with police. President Obama said the

:32:57.:33:07.

United States has a pattern of mass shootings that has no parallel

:33:08.:33:11.

anywhere else in the world. A more unlikely venue for a shooting

:33:12.:33:22.

rampage it might be difficult to find.

:33:23.:33:35.

14 dead, 17 injured after gunmen opened fire on a holiday party at a

:33:36.:33:41.

Centre for People with special needs.

:33:42.:33:48.

My daughter's in there. She texted us about 30 minutes ago and said

:33:49.:33:53.

there was a shooter, he'd shot about 20 to 30 people she thought.

:33:54.:34:01.

There was a shooter in our building. They went into a room and locked the

:34:02.:34:08.

door. They told her turn off the lights and I haven't tried to call

:34:09.:34:13.

her because I didn't want the phone ringing. For several hours, the

:34:14.:34:19.

attackers were at large before police spotted a suspect vehicle and

:34:20.:34:25.

gave chase. There was a fierce gun battle in which two suspects, a man

:34:26.:34:29.

and woman, were shot dead. Police recovered hand guns and assault

:34:30.:34:33.

rifles. Another man is in custody, although it's not known if he was

:34:34.:34:37.

linked to the attack. President Obama's reiterated his call for

:34:38.:34:42.

tougher gun control laws here. We have a pattern now of mass

:34:43.:34:47.

shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the

:34:48.:34:52.

world. There are some steps we could take not to eliminate every one of

:34:53.:34:56.

these mass shootings, but to improve the odds that they don't happen as

:34:57.:35:00.

frequently. The motive for this attack remains a

:35:01.:35:05.

mystery, but theories ranging from a work place dispute to terrorism have

:35:06.:35:10.

all been advanced, but not since the Sandy Hook massacre three years ago

:35:11.:35:14.

have so many died in a single instance of gun violence.

:35:15.:35:18.

A short time ago I spoke to Cliff Cummings who owns

:35:19.:35:21.

There were helicopter flying overhead, you had probably 400

:35:22.:35:33.

responding officers, multi divisions came, the Cher rich's department,

:35:34.:35:38.

the local Police Department and it just went on and on, highway patrol.

:35:39.:35:46.

There was a massive response. I want to compliment the chief and all the

:35:47.:35:48.

law enforcement guys who did such an amazing job getting this situation

:35:49.:35:54.

under control. We were very fortunate in that there was a

:35:55.:35:58.

training exercise going on about a mile and a half from the shooting

:35:59.:36:03.

area and they were able to respond incredibly quickly. The very sad

:36:04.:36:07.

part of this I learned a little while ago is that the couple who did

:36:08.:36:11.

this had a six-month-old baby who is in the care of a neighbour I'm told

:36:12.:36:16.

or a relative, so what prompted them to do this is just beyond me. It

:36:17.:36:21.

shows one thing, that it can happen anywhere. What is the solution, do

:36:22.:36:25.

you think? There isn't one. I can tell you right now, in my mind, I've

:36:26.:36:29.

thought through this many times, I've had this discussion, I don't

:36:30.:36:34.

know that there is a solution because of the sheer numbers of what

:36:35.:36:39.

you would have to do. There are literally millions of guns out there

:36:40.:36:42.

that are not registered. I don't know that you can solve a problem

:36:43.:36:45.

that numbers in the millions. Many people

:36:46.:36:48.

in Syria are all too used to the frightening sound of explosions

:36:49.:36:51.

and the grim news of casualties. So, how will the addition of British

:36:52.:36:54.

firepower affect people living Rozin Khaleel Hamjool,

:36:55.:36:57.

an 18-year-old Yazidi women who moved here with her family

:36:58.:37:04.

when she was ten. Hello, Rozin, thank you for talking

:37:05.:37:15.

to us. Tell us about the reaction from your friends, family, back in

:37:16.:37:19.

Sir yarks to the fact that the British are now involved militarily

:37:20.:37:25.

in your country? I think so far from what I've heard from both of the

:37:26.:37:30.

areas like in Iraq and Syria and as well as my family here now, I think

:37:31.:37:36.

it's a very positive one that it's a good thing that they have started

:37:37.:37:42.

these air strikes. However, I think they want to know if the

:37:43.:37:48.

humanitarian aid will also be talked about in perhaps Parliament.

:37:49.:37:53.

Yes. Which is a very fair question. I'm also going to bring in, many I

:37:54.:38:00.

Fay, Mohammed Izreb who lives in the UK and is from Syria. Tell us about

:38:01.:38:06.

your own friends and family back home and what, if any, difference it

:38:07.:38:13.

makes to them that the British are involved militarily in your country?

:38:14.:38:17.

To be honest, it was disappointing seeing what happened yesterday in

:38:18.:38:20.

the Parliament. The whole discussion was about Isis and although it's a

:38:21.:38:24.

big threat in Syria, the main threat in Syria really is the Assad regime,

:38:25.:38:30.

mainly 80% of deaths are caused by the Assad regime and it was only a

:38:31.:38:33.

few people yesterday in the Parliament who managed to discuss

:38:34.:38:39.

the civilian protection. Most of the deaths in Syria happen due the

:38:40.:38:43.

aerial bombardment so how can we assure Syrian people that that we

:38:44.:38:50.

are not going to respond to that. I was hoping to see some part of that

:38:51.:38:54.

discussion going on in addition to bombing Isis. I don't know if you

:38:55.:38:59.

know Mohammed, but going on in Vienna are these so-called peace

:39:00.:39:06.

talks, there is an ambitious time frame for a ceasefire in Syria

:39:07.:39:11.

within six months and then within 18 months free ahhed fair elections we

:39:12.:39:16.

are told - this is the plan - which will lead to an inclusive Government

:39:17.:39:18.

representing all the people of Syria? We heard those talks for a

:39:19.:39:23.

long time now. Syrian people can't believe it any more. We have

:39:24.:39:28.

experience that the Assad regime only respond to political talk when

:39:29.:39:33.

there is actually some military threat. That is what is happening

:39:34.:39:37.

two years ago when we threatened we are going to do something against

:39:38.:39:41.

the chemical weapons. Suddenly the Assad regime decided to sit on the

:39:42.:39:44.

table and give up his chemical weapons. It's the same now, if we

:39:45.:39:49.

just only sit on the table without enforcing that, with actually

:39:50.:39:52.

credible military threat to say that unless something happens, we are not

:39:53.:39:57.

going to let those civilians die every day. 150 die in Syria every

:39:58.:40:02.

day, that's a Paris attack happening every day in Syria. And Syrian

:40:03.:40:08.

people will have listened to this debate without hearing any singling

:40:09.:40:12.

word to assure them that civilian casualties will not happen. 150

:40:13.:40:16.

people every day multilied by six months and you can guess the total

:40:17.:40:20.

loss of life if that even happened after six months. That is

:40:21.:40:23.

extraordinary and thank you for reminding us of that. Rozin, our

:40:24.:40:28.

audience remembers what happened to the use still people at the hands of

:40:29.:40:34.

IS earlier this year. Do your friends and family in Syria feel

:40:35.:40:39.

they are more at threat from IS or President Assad as Mohammed was

:40:40.:40:45.

saying? I think the big problem is that

:40:46.:40:55.

actually I don't know much about the President Assad's involvement with

:40:56.:41:03.

IS and the whole situation really, but what Islamic state is doing and

:41:04.:41:12.

the theology is completely wrong and against humanity and that should be

:41:13.:41:17.

everyone's worry, surely. Mohammed, you've clearly said that

:41:18.:41:20.

there doesn't seem to be, or you don't have much faith in the plan to

:41:21.:41:26.

remove President Assad from power - I wonder how you think things will

:41:27.:41:32.

unfold then over the next six months, 12 months, 18 months?

:41:33.:41:38.

I mean, I'm hoping there'll be more political pressure on Assad regime

:41:39.:41:47.

and I hope that a real and legitimate pressure... That pressure

:41:48.:41:50.

would have to come from Russia because they are allies but there is

:41:51.:41:55.

no sign that President Putin wants President Assad to go? I don't think

:41:56.:41:59.

Putin would want to see Assad going. They are claiming now that they are

:42:00.:42:03.

bombing Isis, Russia do. All you are seeing is bombing of hospitals and

:42:04.:42:07.

civilian areas, where Isis is not even there, they are just bombing

:42:08.:42:11.

the Free Syrian Army under the big umbrella of bombing Isis. Only two

:42:12.:42:18.

days ago, we had a hospital bombed by Russian airplanes. They are using

:42:19.:42:23.

cluster bombs. I mean, that's the risk here, we look to the eyes of

:42:24.:42:31.

Syrians, as if we are joining Russia in bombing and Russia is not bombing

:42:32.:42:39.

Isis but the Free Syrian Army. So they won't be able to differentiate.

:42:40.:42:50.

To Syrians, we have to take things in balance. When 150 people die

:42:51.:42:55.

every day because of Assad, there is a lot of people, but it's not the

:42:56.:43:00.

same level, 5% of the death toll in Syria is caused by Isis, so it's

:43:01.:43:05.

still horrendous but you can see why Syrian people are putting more

:43:06.:43:08.

emphasis on Assad. Thank you both very much for talking

:43:09.:43:10.

to us. Thank you for your many, many

:43:11.:43:23.

messages. We do read them all, I promise you. This viewer on WhatsApp

:43:24.:43:28.

says, I totally agree that Britain should have gone in sooner to carry

:43:29.:43:33.

out air strikes on Isis. E-mail from Robin, Daesh are already killing

:43:34.:43:39.

civilians indiscriminately, raping, beheading et cetera. What would have

:43:40.:43:44.

happened in 1944 if he said we couldn't attack when Hitler and his

:43:45.:43:47.

vile regime were already killing millions? Get real, Jeremy Corbyn,

:43:48.:43:51.

and supporters in the long run, Daesh have to be stopped before

:43:52.:43:55.

there are no civilians left. And this tweet from Lynn,

:43:56.:44:01.

practically every Syrian person who's asked says it's

:44:02.:44:03.

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