The Shaker Aamer Files Victoria Derbyshire

In this interview there is some graphic detail of his alleged abuse.

Knowing that I am coming back to my family, it was hard

to believe, sitting in that aeroplane, thinking that definitely

thinking how I'm going to face it, how I am going to be with the kids.

And seeing your wife and your children, including your youngest,

who was born on the day you were transferred

to Guantanamo Bay, give us an insight into that moment.

I knew I was going to fall down and start crying.

So I thought, it's best for me just to go with my wife.

My wife was going to guide me through it.

I thought, let me just see her, by herself.

Let her be comfortable again with me,

knowing what happened, how it happened.

I wanted to assure her I did not neglect her, I did not let her go.

She was crying and then I started crying.

And then your children, tell us about that.

I needed to know who they are, how they think, how they do things,

Did they run to you, did they hug you?

I was the one that was running to them.

Even though it has been a month and a little bit more,

but things change a little bit and they

start to realise that their dad loves them so much and he's trying

to do everything to comfort them, to be there for them.

And they are coming along, little by little.

What is it you are enjoying most about

Just to wake up and know that nobody is going to tell you what to do

Just to wake up without knowing you're going to be shackled,

I want to go back to 2001, if that's OK.

After living in London and marrying a British woman,

you decided to move to Afghanistan in 2001.

With your wife, who was pregnant I think,

I lived in this place for five years before I went to Afghanistan.

Four out of the five years I was homeless.

At the same time, the way my wife appeared, wearing the full niqab,

the way I was, wearing an Islamic dress and walking around,

you can see this guy is a very practising Muslim.

We were led to believe that you moved to Afghanistan

to work for a charity, is that not accurate?

It is not an official charity, as documented.

It was our own way of helping that society.

Sometime before Christmas you were captured by

the Northern Alliance, a group of fighters

They wanted me to say one thing and they would let me go.

That I worked with Osama Bin Laden and I was with Al-Qaeda.

You know, I wish I could film that film

Two days later, you were in American custody.

You were taken to Bagram airfield, and I think,

initially, you expected that the Americans would

As soon as you arrived, you say abuse by US soldiers began.

For example, you were taken to a concrete room and ordered

They ordered me to strip naked in front of a lot of men and women,

and soldiers, and it was shocking for me, it was shocking.

But actually they were doing it for the sake of the humiliation,

Alongside humiliation, you say there was beating

That is when somebody grabbed my head and smacked it

And all what I am trying to do is resist, hitting back,

My head was smacking the wall, back-and-forth, and then

Just my eyes are closed and, I'm you know, thinking,

Because you know, all that, my vision, I am sure is -

I can't even see what is going on, because everything in my mind

is running around, and as soon as I opened my eyes there

Just pain, pain after pain, I just, you know...

All I am trying to do is protect my head and trying

It is not like you can even think about it.

You know, all what you, I think all what you can think

about is how to save your head from blowing up.

And they sat me down, the wall behind me, and they start

talking to me, all of them at the same time.

One is an English accent, another with a Russian accent,

and two guys, the one who is the American,

he called himself Tony, and the other one is John.

Are you adamant that there was an English officer,

intelligence officer, agent in that room, when your head

I have no doubt he is an Englishman, because of the way he spoke,

the way he is very careful, the way he was sitting far away,

looking at me, you know, and because the day before,

"I'm with the MI5 intelligence service and I came to ask

So I have no doubt he was an Englishman.

Did this English intelligence officer take part in

Did he make any attempt to stop what was happening to you?

If what you have said is true, then he was complicit.

Because I hear it from others, not from him, not from John,

himself, but I hear it from others, that,

"Listen, this is all totally Americans."

But you said he could have intervened.

Do you believe that the then British Government,

they knew that people like you were allegedly

I do not want to say the Government, here.

I don't think it is to do with the Government,

as much as the intelligence services.

Which is totally, for me, different than Government.

Would you like to see the then Prime Minister Tony Blair

and the then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw held to account

for what you say happened to you at that time?

The only thing I would like to happen was for Tony Blair

and whoever was in the government at that time to tell the truth.

Do you believe Tony Blair knew what was going on at Bagram

If these guys at the head of state do not know,

After Bagram, you were moved to Kandahar.

First of all, when I get to Kandahar and they have something

called a welcoming party, where they really beat you up.

Yes, beating up, beating up with M16s, jumping on your back,

That is one of the times when I felt like I'm

not going to live that night, I'm not going to survive that night.

Praying, this is my last few minutes.

There were threats against your family at that time.

One particular interrogator threatened to sexually

Yes, that was the hardest thing, the hardest thing I ever heard.

It was the worst experience I ever had in my life.

That is the time he told me, "Your wife and your daughter

is with us, and if you do not start talking, we will rape your daughter

and you will hear her crying, Daddy, Daddy".

It was worse than the beating, worse than everything,

For three or four days I did not say a word.

You don't know, you want to hit him, you hate him, but I thought, I will

die before it ends. Did you genuinely believe

they had your wife and daughter? Yes, I did not know when I separated

from my wife if she was safe Were British officers

at Kandahar as well? Did he take part

in anything? I would like to read a list

of claims that the US Department It comes from the official defence

file from 2007. In 2007 it concluded you were high

risk and were likely to pose None of the allegations are true

that they have been saying about me. You were an Al-Qaeda

operative, they say? Prove anything that you say is true,

prove it to the world. "You held a senior position

in a UK-based Al-Qaeda cell." You were a close associate

of Osama Bin Laden. Where is the British

intelligence at that time? Five years I have been

living in this country, how come an operative

for Osama Bin Laden? Working in London and they didn't

even know about it? If the British say otherwise,

why didn't you give it to the Americans to prove

I was communicating with him. "You were an Al-Qaeda recruiter,

finance and facilitator With a history of participating in

jihadist,? You indicated your willingness

to become a martyr and served as a sub-command and in

the mountains in Afghanistan. In Bosnia in the mid-90s you met

Babar Ahmed, who was later sentenced in the US for being behind a website

supporting terrorism. In fact I was with him last night,

and I saw him after 15 years. We were all doing what everybody

was proud at that time, You lived in London with the only

terrorist to be convicted I met a lot of people,

but it does not make me a bad guy. You had links to well-known British

jihadis like Abu Qatada I would be lying

if I say I knew him. I know of him because

he was in the mosque. Abu Qatada used

to pray in his place. I used to sit and listen

to his speeches and I know he is not He is not somebody horrible

as they say he is. Described by Spanish judge

as Osama Bin Laden's right-hand According to my own knowledge,

he had nothing to do with Osama Bin Laden,

and he never preached about him in his circles and he never

encouraged anyone to go to One final one from that department

file, you admitted you associated He attempted to put explosives

in a shoe and get on a plane. I do not know anything

about him, who is he? On Valentine's Day, you were

transferred to Guantanamo Bay, you didn't know it at the time, but that

is when your son was born. Did you have any idea what to expect?

I just have a general idea, but I was shocked.

Not the first day, the first second I arrived.

The first thing they tell you when they

drag you, they don't allow you to walk, they drag

They drag you, pulling you, and your feet hit the stairs,

and all that, and on the bus, and they said "This is the end,

this is the end of your life, you will never leave

And then they tie you to the bus and the ground with the chain

and your hands, they tie you, with your legs, and then

they start hitting you, left and right.

Even though it was in that dark time, in that dark moment of getting

You know, the closest thing for my mind is the Harry

They have an island which says Azkaban.

Where there is no happiness, they just suck all your

You don't have no feeling any more, and truly, that is how I felt

all the time, this is Azkaban, this is not where this

That is what they tried, you know, they want to make you feelingness,

That is what they tried, you know, they want to make you feelingless,

they want to deprive you from everything,

In terms of the interrogation you received at Guantanamo Bay,

They are not looking for answers, they are just

looking to blame you on something regardless, if you are telling

In Guantanamo they were more careful.

It is more discreet, it is more, you know,

all the method of the torture in Guantanamo is like I told

You said in a statement in 2013 that you were visited three times

in Guantanamo Bay by British intelligence officers.

Were they involved while the interrogations were going on?

What did they see, of the way you were treated?

They just know about it, as I told you last time,

just, about the guy whose name was John,

and Tony, he told me, "I know what they are doing to you.

But I promise you one thing, when you

come back to England, you will know we are not like them."

Which made me feel so good, so happy.

And that was the first time, you know, somebody

really, I thought was sympathising with me, because the other two

times, they were just coming to interrogate me.

You have described torture as a way of life, 24/7,

a world of mental and physical destruction.

Explain what forced cell extraction involved.

by psychologists, people, they know how

to manipulate you, how to make you get scared,

so the guard comes and ask you for a very little thing,

like a pack of salt he didn't find in the

Like I told you, they start coming, there is like six

guards, and you will find yourself 15, 17 people coming towards you,

while all of these guards from the beginning of the block,

marching with big, you know, heavy steps, and you would be

waiting, "Oh my God", and everybody is shouting

they come in front of the door and they start

shouting "Go down, put your face on the floor, put your hands behind

you", things like that, because your head has to be

You have to stick your head with your

own self in the toilet to let them in.

And they won't even accept your hands to be shackled.

So they spray you, and your face, and then

they come with the shields so fast, and they just mash you in your face,

and they push you down, and the other guards they pull

throw you on the floor, try to pin you down

They tie you from the back and they put

your legs and push against your back.

Until they shackle you up and they throw

you outside on the floor, which is a very dirty floor,

and they search you and they keep you in that

Depends how much they want to put you under a lot of pain.

After that, they put you with nothing, you can be

sleeping with nothing for days and days and days.

In one year, in 2012, more than 300, 370, 380 times

in one year, and I am talking about sometimes seven,

I think at one stage you did make friends with ants in your cell.

For two years and ten months I never left my cell.

Never seen the outside, and I end up making friends

One of them is the ants, because they were beautiful.

The way they were doing things, I never knew

I start learning the different ants, the colours, the different way

of doing things and it was beautiful, because

I learned so much and they became so friendly with me,

And that is one of the things that kept me going, you know,

that I had somebody to talk to, I had some people to watch,

some insect to watch, to give me time, to

Did they ever break your spirit? Spirit? No. Did I ever think, that

is it? Yes. Did you think you would get out? I had no doubt, from day

one. I will be out. Because I had no doubt that I did nothing wrong to

deserve what happened. I knew that justice would prevail. After years

and years, justice will prevail. It took 27 years with Nelson Mandela to

get out, and to be the President of his country. It took me only 14

years to prove to the world that I am a good person and they are the

bad people. Will Guantanamo Bay ever close, in your opinion? Yes. When?

When the world knows the truth about it. When will that be? Very soon. Is

that not what we are doing? Telling the truth, telling the world what is

happening in Guantanamo, 12, 13 years ago and still happening? It is

still open. It is the way the story has been told. People have to

understand that Guantanamo did not change. It just went through phases.

The more it goes, it is more enhanced. The more they cover it up,

the more they do their thing and secretly, so nobody knows exactly

what is happening. What do you say to the critics who, even now, say

you must have been a security risk, that is why the Americans kept you

locked up for so long? I'm here. Everybody knows me now, everybody

sees me walking in the street. I am sure time will prove I am not a

risk. How much do you think what happened to you and others in

Guantanamo Bay is responsible for the growth of Islamist extremism? I

am sure there is a link. We have to understand there is a reason why it

happens. There is a reason why these people came about, whoever is doing

these acts. We have to understand there is a reason. The great reason

we all agree on is injustice. So, injustice breeds all of this anger.

The anger breeds all of this horrible things that happen after.

Will part of your pursuit of justice be pursuing legal action against the

British government? No. You're not going to take legal action? Not at

all. Not at all? Why not? Because I don't believe the court will solve

this problem. I don't believe it will bring justice, because of what

happened in the past. You are not interested in compensation? The

compensation issue, really, I can't talk about it for many reasons. That

is beside the point, I do not want to prosecute anybody, I do not want

anybody to be, you know, asked about what his role was in the past, I

just want people to tell the truth. I am doing it right now. So we can

really understand what happened and stop it from happening again. I need

you to, please, let me tell the world the truth about Guantanamo,

let them know exactly what is happening. The world has the right

to understand what is happening at this time. I hope that I did

something, and I am still going to carry on doing it, until, God

willing, I will close that place. I will do my best. If they need me to

go back, to help them to close that place, by Allah, I will go back.

Thank you very much. You can watch the full interview on our programme

page. In response to those allegations, the Foreign Office say

the UK Government stands firmly against torture and cruel, inhumane

and degrading treatment or punishment. We do not participate

in, solicit, encourage or condone the use of torture or cruel,

inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment for any purpose, neither

does the UK make use of any so-called enhanced interrogation

techniques. We have consistently made clear our absolute opposition

to such behaviour and our determination to combat it wherever

and whenever it occurs. The US Department of defence told us:

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