Browse content similar to 24/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, it's Thursday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire - | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
Europe's most wanted - police investigating the Brussels | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
bombings search for the man in white. | :00:14. | :00:15. | |
The Belgian authorities think he fled the city's airport | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
after the two men who were with him blew themselves up during | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
Officials in Brussels tell reporters that one of the suicide bombers | :00:21. | :00:29. | |
who attacked the city's airport was involved in making | :00:30. | :00:31. | |
the explosives for the Paris attacks in November. | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
I'm Jon Kay, reporting live from Brussels. A second national day of | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
mourning here as people stop and reflect in this square. You also see | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
them checking their mobile phones to check out the latest in the | :00:50. | :00:50. | |
investigation. Plus here, a warning that hundreds | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
of thousands of council houses and housing association homes | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
could be lost forever. There were always about 20, 20 5% of | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
the population who cannot afford to own their own home or rent on the | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
market -- 25%. What are we going to do about those groups of people | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
going into the future if we allow social housing to continue to | :01:15. | :01:15. | |
decline? Grief, confusion and recriminations | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
as police in Brussels investigating the airport and metro bombings | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
which killed at least 31 people are hunting for a suspect, | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
pictured wearing a white jacket on CCTV footage at the airport | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
shortly before the attacks took It's thought he escaped | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
after his two accomplices Unconfirmed reports suggest one | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
of the suicide bombers was Najim Laachraoui, | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
believed to have been involved in the planning of | :01:53. | :01:53. | |
the Paris atrocities. Some more names and nationalities | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
of the victims have Though only a handful have been | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
formally identified, as the city enters a second day | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
of national mourning. A focal point for tributes | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
is still the Place de la Bourse where our reporter Jon | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
Kay is this morning. What is the latest? | :02:11. | :02:22. | |
Good morning, Victoria. It is interesting to mention the victims | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
because there is a sense here in Brussels and across Belgium of | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
keeping the victims at the forefront of this. We have seen the CCTV | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
images of the suspect, the mugshots, the pictures from the airport and | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
Metro, but I think what people here want to do is keep talking about | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
those who lost their lives and that is why they are coming here, | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
reflected in the front page of the papers. 331 innocence, a total of | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
331 people believed to have lost their lives so far, though that is | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
expected to rise, and the 300 injured, some of them critically. We | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
are told to expect more deaths, the death toll to rise in the days | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
ahead. You can see from the faces the range of ages, backgrounds and | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
nationalities of those caught up in these attacks. But while the focus | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
on those front pages may be on the victims, the focus for the | :03:14. | :03:15. | |
authorities here is a manhunt, at least for one | :03:16. | :03:31. | |
man, maybe for more. All kinds of confusion yesterday, arrests had | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
been made, hadn't been made, looking for this person or that person. We | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
will get the latest as it stands from Simon Jones. | :03:37. | :03:38. | |
Solidarity, sympathy, defiance, fear. | :03:39. | :03:40. | |
The candles and tributes grow as Belgium enters a second day | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
The big question - where is this man? | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
The hunt continues for the airpoprt attacker who fled the scene | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
TRANSLATION: The suspect wearing a light-coloured coat and a hat | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
He left a large bag and departed before the explosions. | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
His bag contained the biggest explosive device. | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Two of the suicide bombers have been identified as brothers Brahim | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
and Khalid el-Bakraoui, petty criminals known to the police. | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
Brahim, in the middle, was one of the three attackers | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
On the left may be Najim Laachraoui, the suspected bomb | :04:10. | :04:26. | |
maker in the Paris attacks last November. | :04:27. | :04:28. | |
He is linked to Salah Abdeslam, the one surviving Paris attacker | :04:29. | :04:30. | |
The Bakraoui brothers have been linked to safe houses | :04:31. | :04:41. | |
Paris clearly connected to events in Brussels. | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
It has emerged that Brahim was deported from Turkey last year. | :04:45. | :04:46. | |
Turkey says Belgium ignored warnings that he was dangerous. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
TRANSLATION: Despite our warning that this person was a foreign | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
terrorist fighter, Belgian authorities could not find | :04:53. | :04:54. | |
Belgium insists he had been identified as a common criminal, | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
not a terrorism suspect, but questions are growing as to how | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
the police and security services have handled the terror threat. | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
Among the people confirmed dead, Leopold Hecht, a law | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
student in Brussels, and Adelma Tapia Ruiz from Peru, | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
mother of twin girls who survived the attack. | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
Overnight, London landmarks were lit up in solidarity with Brussels. | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
Today, EU interior and justice ministers will hold a crisis meeting | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
to discuss their response to Belgium's worst | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
48-hour is after those attacks, I have to say it feels rather more | :05:30. | :05:46. | |
calm here today, busier as well. People, after staying away, staying | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
at home yesterday, appear to be going to work, school, college, as | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
they might normally, but this is a new normal, and every Metro station | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
and bus station have intense security, we have seen the military | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
the street in public spaces, the investigations, the manhunt | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
continues, it is clearly a nervous, edgy here in Brussels. | :06:07. | :06:07. | |
Thank you. Here, a former head of MI6, | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
Sir Richard Dearlove, has questioned claims that leaving | :06:12. | :06:13. | |
the EU would compromise security. But the Defence Secretary, | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
Michael Fallon, said the recent terror attacks showed the need | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
for more cooperation with the EU. Live to Westminster and our | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
political guru Norman Smith. What has Sir Richard Dearlove said? | :06:23. | :06:35. | |
We have become used to the Brexit campaigners warning about the risk | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
to security from free movement in the EU, what is interesting about | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
Sir Richard's criticism is he focuses on the calibre and quality | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
of Brussels-based security organisations. So, for example, he | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
says they are of little consequence, he says that you recall, the main EU | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
law enforcement agency involves 28 nations of differing abilities in | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
terms of their approach to intelligence -- Europol. And he | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
raises questions about how secure they are, saying countries like | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
Britain doesn't want to put their intelligence into a leaking | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
organisation, and he said if we left it would make no difference to our | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
close working relationship with the United States, and far better to | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
have bilateral deals when it comes to intelligence. Against that we | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
have heard this morning from another former spy chief, the former head of | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
GCHQ, who said quite the opposite. His argument is that we are only | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
going to be safe if the intelligence operations in Europe are up to | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
scratch. How do we help them to be up to scratch? By cooperating with | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
them. The danger if we pull out is that it deprives them of a lot of | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
our intelligence, so we have two intelligence chiefs on either side | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
of the debate in the EU referendum, and it matters because the issue of | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
national security is becoming absolutely central to that | :08:06. | :08:07. | |
referendum campaign. Thank you, Norman. | :08:08. | :08:09. | |
And with with rest of the day's news, here's Annita in the BBC | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
A UN war crimes tribunal is to return its verdict today | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
in the case of the former Bosnian-Serb leader Radovan | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
He's accused of genocide and crimes against humanity related to the war | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
At least 100,000 people died in the conflict, | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
before an American-brokered peace deal brought the fighting | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
The verdict will be broadcast live on a big screen in Sarajevo this | :08:33. | :08:45. | |
lunchtime and we will speak to our correspondent there later this hour. | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
Police are appealing for information after two women were murdered | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
The attacks took place in different locations yesterday evening. | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
A 34-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
Australia says aircraft debris found off the coast of Mozambique | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
is almost certainly from missing Malaysian Airlines plane MH370. | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
Two parts of a plane were found separately by members | :09:11. | :09:12. | |
of the public and were flown to Australia last month for analysis. | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
Flight MH370 vanished in March 2014 with 238 people on board. | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
The bodies of a man and a woman have been found by rescuers searching | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
for two climbers who've been missing on Ben Nevis since February. | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
Rachel Slater and Tim Newton, from Bradford, failed to return | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
from an outing on the mountain and hazardous weather hampered | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
Police Scotland said the families of the two climbers | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
Victims of online fraud shouldn't be refunded by banks if they fail | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
to protect themselves, according to Britain's most | :09:46. | :09:47. | |
Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said that the public were being rewarded | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
for bad behaviour and should take more responsibility | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
In 2014, the last full year for which figures are available, | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
the cost of online fraud was ?479 million. | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
Currently, banks and credit card companies automatically pay out | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
unless they can prove that the victim was negligent. | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
But the police say as many as eight out of ten phishing or malware | :10:20. | :10:28. | |
attacks would be avoided if people didn't click on the link. | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
Two senior officers are now suggesting it might be time | :10:32. | :10:33. | |
for the public to take more responsibility. | :10:34. | :10:35. | |
The Commissioner of the Met Police, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, | :10:36. | :10:37. | |
is reported in the Times saying that automatic pay-outs reward bad | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
Commander Chris Greany of the City of London Police, | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
the national coordinator for economic crime, told the BBC | :10:45. | :10:46. | |
that people should consider security in cyberspace as much of a routine | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
as locking their front door when they go out. | :10:50. | :10:51. | |
The police say this is not about blaming victims but trying | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
to ensure fewer people become victims in the first place. | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
But consumer groups argue that ending automatic compensation | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
could not only delay pay-outs but also discourage banks | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
from investing in online security themselves. | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
Ben Ando, BBC News at New Scotland Yard. | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
US President Barack Obama has shown off his dancing skills at a state | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
Hundreds of guests were entertained by an impromptu performance | :11:19. | :11:31. | |
as the president, shortly joined by First Lady Michelle Obama, | :11:32. | :11:33. | |
danced the country's national dance, the Tango, accompanied | :11:34. | :11:35. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News - | :11:36. | :11:48. | |
Throughout the programme we'll keep you up to date with the latest | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
Before 10am, we know affordable housing is a big issue for you, | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
we're going to detail the big changes that are coming | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
to council houses and housing association homes. | :12:05. | :12:06. | |
If you live in a housing association property, | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
do watch our film and tell us how the changes could affect you. | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
You can get in touch using the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE. | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
And I always try and feed some of your contributions | :12:19. | :12:20. | |
into our conversations throughout the morning. | :12:21. | :12:22. | |
And massive change of heart from Novak Djokovic? | :12:23. | :12:32. | |
It seems that way, we will start with the row going on over men and | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
women's pay Intel is. The 11 time grand slam champion Novak Djokovic | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
has apologised to a number of leading female players and has | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
spoken to Andy Murray, who criticised the world than the one | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
following comments he made on Sunday. Djokovic suggested male | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
players should earn more as they generate more income. Now, though, | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
he was -- he says he was referring to more pay across the board and is | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
trying to explain himself. I was referring to the tournament and the | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
wealth distributed to all the players, high ranked, lower ranks, | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
female, male, young, old. I was talking in the name of all the | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
players, I think that we deserve more of the wealth distribution that | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
is generated on certain tournaments, that's what I am referring to. All | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
genders? Yes, all genders. That is that put to bed, maybe not! | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
England's cricketers were not good enough according to Captain Owen | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
Morgan as they narrowly avoided embarrassment against Afghanistan. | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
England slipped to 57-6 but big hitting from David Willey and Moeen | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
Ali gave them a total of 142. Afghanistan were always behind in | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
the run chase as England won by 15 runs and afterwards Morgan was | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
understandably pleased with the contributions from Moeen Ali and | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
David Willey. Where the rest of our batting struggle today, those guys | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
should a great deal of application in the right manner, starting on to | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
bigger wickets like these is difficult, you almost need mistakes | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
before you actually click your brain into thinking, I have got plenty of | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
time here, I have to get runs under my belt and establish the | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
partnership. It is so different to the wickets we have played on. | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
Emphasising that throughout the side is very important. | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland meet in a friendly at the Cardiff city Stadium | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
tonight ahead of this summer's euros. Both teams have ended a long | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
wait to reach a major competition but Wales will be without key | :14:46. | :14:47. | |
players character bail and Aaron Ramsey. | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Looking forward to it, two important games for us, as it always is. | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
Everybody says two friendly games, but never go into a game playing for | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
Wales thinking it didn't matter. It is a big one for us. We are going to | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
play against some teams with exceptional individual players, | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
which obviously I was bail is. Aaron Ramsey comes into that category as | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
well, and that is note disrespect to the rest of the Wales squad, who are | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
good international players. From that point of view it would have | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
been good for our preparation to have to deal with that, but equally | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
the fact they are not playing sets us a different challenge. Scotland | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
also in action tonight, playing a friendly in the Czech Republic. That | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
is all for now. A British woman filmed sheltering | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
with her family in the aftermath of the Brussels airport attack says | :15:45. | :15:46. | |
she'd been reading just the day before, what to do in the event | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
of a terrorist attack. Pauline Graystone, who has lived | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
in Belgium for 20 years, was checking in at Brussels | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
International Airport She was with her | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
daughter and husband. The images of her on the floor | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
of the departure hall, amid the chaos of the attack, | :16:06. | :16:07. | |
have been seen around the world. The luggage was on the conveyor | :16:08. | :16:23. | |
belt. We'd just been checked in. At that moment there was a loud bang, a | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
crack. We all turned round and I said "what's that? ". It wasn't | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
obvious to me that it was a bomb. My husband thought it was. We | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
immediately dropped to the floor and we were basically there I don't know | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
how long. Probably a few seconds, maybe longer. Then suddenly there | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
was an even louder bang in front of us behind the check-in and this was | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
clearly a bomb because you could feel the heat and see the light, you | :16:50. | :16:57. | |
could smell the burning and lots of the ceiling fell down. This is when | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
it got very scary, it was like, this is it. You hear about these things | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
on the news, of course it's never going to be you is it, then suddenly | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
you think this is it and of course we'd heard two bombs, it was clear. | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Yes, I was just thinking, there's going to be another one, another | :17:14. | :17:23. | |
one. So it was numb terror, I guess. The first blast was behind us. By | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
the time I looked, the second had already detonated. I just saw the | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
blow, the aftermath. I crouched to the floor and remember just staying | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
there which seemed for a very long time but I don't think it was that | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
long. I remember hearing my mum telling me it was going to be OK and | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
that just to wait and make myself small so that's what I did. Did you | :17:46. | :17:56. | |
feel it was going to be OK? I did but no at the same time. I watch a | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
lot of cop things. It gives you a surreal image that maybe you could | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
die but it was fine. You were with your husband and daughter, did you | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
keep them close to you? Yes, clung on! I just grabbed both of them. I | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
mean, I just wanted us all to be as small as possible, so we were like | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
one group very close together. I just kept thinking, be as small as | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
you can, so we kept very tightly together. | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
That was Pauline Graystone and her daughter talking to Katya | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
Two days on from the attack, what's the atmosphere | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
As politicians and the media have variously placed blame | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
on the Government, the security services and disconnected | :18:45. | :18:46. | |
communities in Belgium, we can speak now to three Muslim | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
Nadia Fadil, a university lecturer, Hajib Hajaji, an anti-islamophobia | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
activist and Taouwfik Amzil, an entrepreneur who helps young | :18:56. | :18:57. | |
Welcome to the programme. Thank you for joining us. Nadia, how would you | :18:58. | :19:08. | |
describe the last couple of days? Right after the attacks, there has | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
been a quite impressive amount of solidarity. I think many people have | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
also showed that they were quite shocked also about the attacks. | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
There have been several weeks that it's been -- several wakes organised | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
by the communities in the city. I was surprised by the general | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
expressions of solidarities. Hajib, what would you say? Can you hear me? | :19:37. | :19:50. | |
Yes. Thoughts and prayers firstly for the victims to close friends and | :19:51. | :19:59. | |
family. We were shocked. As a human rights organisation, we have a right | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
to live in a peaceful country. We are astonished about this attack. | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
It's a global attack in all of Europe and now in Brussels. Some | :20:07. | :20:15. | |
people were wounded and some people died. This is the minority of the | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
Muslims. This is an attack of some groups, minority groups, and they | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
promote fire and we need to come bat them. -- come back at them. | :20:28. | :20:37. | |
How do you come back at them? Can you hear me? Yes, do go ahead? We | :20:38. | :20:47. | |
are now at a Crossroads. First, we need to make sure that people have a | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
feeling of security and living in a safe place. We then need to get to | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
the root cause which is, we are living in front of home-grown | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
terrorists. Those people, those bad guys, have been first going from | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
social exclusion to pelty crime to radicalisation. Most important here | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
is not to put the blame on the entire community. The community, the | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
Muslim community, has suffered and is suffering still now from all | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
these attacks. But on the other hand, we need to start a very | :21:21. | :21:32. | |
critical dialogue to make sure that the measures are set. We need to | :21:33. | :21:45. | |
have far more positive IDs and policies to take place and it means | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
simply making sure that all people here in Belgium or even in Europe | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
have the sense and feeling that they have access. We need to cut the risk | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
of radicalisation. If we don't do that in the mid or long-term, we'll | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
just have more and more attacks and this is exactly what Isis is looking | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
for, to divide people and make sure that racism, generalisation and | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
Islamophobia is increasing and then putting the word out for more | :22:19. | :22:26. | |
recruitment. Nadia, on that point about generalisations, a British man | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
here described on Twitter the fact that he went up to a Muslim woman in | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
Croydon just outside London and confronted her, these are his words, | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
he posted this on Twitter "I confronted a Muslim woman today, | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
asked her to explain Brussels". She said "nothing to do with me," it was | :22:44. | :22:52. | |
a male write mouthed reply. Has there been anything like that in | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
Belgium? A few politicians have expressed the desire to hear Muslims | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
more ex-mes sitly condemning the attacks which is actually quite | :23:03. | :23:04. | |
remarkable because all the organisations, as far as I've been | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
able to follow, have come out with public declarations condemning the | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
attacks, so yes, I think the more problematic facet is that there is a | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
tendency to somehow connect, draw these connections between the | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
multicultural society that is considered by several opinion-makers | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
and leaders and in Britain you have also witnessed the same tendencies | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
to declare multiculturalism as a field experiment. That's one part of | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
the story. The other part of the story is to understand the attacks | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
themselves and the nature of the attacks and also that's been already | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
suggested by Tawfiq in his explanation. It's important to | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
understand the attacks in a context of global warfare and further | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
explanation of the attacks. There is an indirect connection between these | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
two in the sense that if you alienate a big segment of your | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
population and don't offer any ways to choose to have a productive | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
manner, there might be a tiny fraction of the communities that | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
could resort to arms. But if we want to understand the attacks, it's | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
important to situate them in the global War on Terror context in | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
which we have been living for 15 years now and that has, through the | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
implication of a number of young people who've left because they were | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
fed up with Europe basically, who've left to join the fight and the | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
battle in Syria, who have come back in order to take Europe as a | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
military target in the global warfare. | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
You work a lot with young Muslims in Brussels, how would you describe the | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
relationship between the local communities that you go into and the | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
authorities, and I'm talking obviously about the Government, the | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
police, Intelligence Services and so on? The most important here is that | :24:56. | :25:03. | |
we are creating bridges between local communities, youngsters and | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
the authorities and also other institutions. Why - because you know | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
it's a democratic situation in Brussels. We have a very big | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
important Muslim community in Brussels, art of the Institute of | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
Brussels. Those people, those youngsters are the future electors, | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
workers and tenants for Brussels and this is actually the message we are | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
passing to the Government, which is don't ignore this, it's an important | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
part of the population because you will need them at certain points, | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
they'll become the Brussels guys for tomorrow. So we need to make sure | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
that everybody has the feeling that he's part of the society which is | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
not really the case. We have very strong statements from youngsters | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
saying that there is nothing to live here in Belgium so maybe it's better | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
to go to Syria and die. This is very strong statements from youngsters | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
who've been born and raised and grown in Brussels, saying this. So | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
it shows that our social fabric is very weak. Today, more than ever, we | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
need to make sure that what happens in Paris, Istanbul and now in | :26:20. | :26:28. | |
Brussels, should not be happening. For that, at the government level or | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
at the social society level, it has to take the investing in money to | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
ensure it doesn't happen again, otherwise it's another war again. | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
Many families in Belgium desperately wait for news of loved ones, and the | :26:44. | :26:57. | |
majority of the people are trying to continue with daily life. Jon Kay | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
has been finding out how they are coping in the aftermath of the | :27:01. | :27:01. | |
attacks. Imagine facing this on your way to | :27:02. | :27:13. | |
work. Commuters wait to get inside the station. Checked one by one. In | :27:14. | :27:24. | |
the light of the attacks, we found few complaints. It's awful but we | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
have to do it. We are glad we have some controls, yes. We have to do | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
it. My grandson is born last night and I want to go to the hospital to | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
see him and I haven't had a chance and I think that the doors will be | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
closed until I'm home tonight. So how do you feel about the | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
security and waiting in your situation? Well, I can understand. | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
You can understand? Yes, security above everything. These weren't just | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
attacks on the capital of Belgium, but on Brussels as the home of the | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
European Union. The impact is only too clear. | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
During the working week, this area would normally be buzzing with | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
politicians and officials and journalists shuttling between all | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
the different EU buildings, but look, it's empty, the roads are | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
empty, the offices are pretty much empty and I can show you why. Just | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
down the hill there, by the barrier, that's the Metro station that was | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
attacked on Tuesday morning. It's not fun and I don't think it's | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
fun to live in any big city in Europe right now. Maria hasn't been | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
able to do her job as an interpreter since the attacks and her children | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
haven't been to school. But like so many here, she remains calm. How are | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
your kids, how are they doing? We are fine, we are fine, we told them | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
there are some mean guys there, but the world is not all mean and we | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
have to be careful, so I think you have to be honest with your kids and | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
stuff. But while some in Belgium are able | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
to continue with their plans, others are struggling to deal with this new | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
normal. People like Isabella. The atmosphere | :29:05. | :29:14. | |
is very nervous. It's very dangerous and I really, really, really scared. | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
You are scared? Yeah, I'm scared. These women have come up with a | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
novel approach in the fight against terror. Lifting people's spirits | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
with helium-filled balloons. We think that if you hold this balloon | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
it will give to people like some idea of peace and love. And a smile? | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
Yes. We hope so! Yes, that's what we need for the | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
moment isn't it. Everyone here has their own way of | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
dealing with the attacks. While living with the consequences. | :29:51. | :30:07. | |
This programme has been told that hundreds of thousands of council | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
and housing association homes in England could be lost | :30:12. | :30:13. | |
if the Government's home ownership plans are approved. | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
He's accused of genocide and crimes against humanity | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
Today former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic will find | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
out his fate at the International Criminal Tribunal in The Hague. | :30:21. | :30:22. | |
We will look back at what happened two decades ago. | :30:23. | :30:30. | |
This just in from the French news agency AFP, they are reporting the | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
Paras attack suspect Salah Abdeslam, who was detained in Brussels last | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
Friday, is now saying that he wants to be extradited to France, quote, | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
as soon as possible, to face charges, according to his lawyer. | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
Salah Abdeslam told me that he wishes to leave for France as soon | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
as possible, I will ask the investigating magistrate not to | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
oppose his departure, that is an about turn because initially his | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
lawyer was suggesting they would fight extradition from Belgium to | :31:02. | :31:02. | |
France. Annita is in the BBC Newsroom | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
and has more on that and a summary Police in Brussels are continuing | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
their search for a suspect, pictured wearing a white jacket | :31:09. | :31:17. | |
on CCTV footage at the airport shortly before the attacks | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
took on Tuesday. It's thought he escaped | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
after his two accomplices 31 people have been confirmed dead | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
with hundreds more injured, Here, the Defence Secretary, | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
Michael Fallon, has said the terror threat shows this isn't the time | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
to be leaving the European Union. He was speaking after a former head | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, argued that a British exit | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
could lead to important security gains for the UK, including greater | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
control over immigration A UN war crimes tribunal | :31:44. | :31:45. | |
is to return its verdict today in the case of the former | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
Bosnian-Serb leader Radovan He's accused of genocide and crimes | :31:53. | :31:54. | |
against humanity related to the war At least 100,000 people | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
died in the conflict, before an American-brokered peace | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
deal brought the fighting Police are appealing for information | :32:07. | :32:08. | |
after two women were murdered The attacks took place in different | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
locations yesterday evening. A 34-year-old man has been arrested | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
on suspicion of murder Australia says aircraft debris found | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
off the coast of Mozambique is almost certainly from missing | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
Malaysian Airlines plane MH370. Two parts of a plane were found | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
separately by members of the public and were flown to Australia | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
last month for analysis. Flight MH370 vanished in March 2014 | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
with 238 people on board. The bodies of a man and a woman have | :32:41. | :32:48. | |
been found by rescuers searching for two climbers who've been missing | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
on Ben Nevis since February. Rachel Slater and Tim Newton, | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
from Bradford, failed to return from an outing on the mountain | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
and hazardous weather hampered Police Scotland said | :33:00. | :33:01. | |
the families of the two climbers That's a summary of | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
the latest BBC News - The latest sport now | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
with Will Perry. The 11 time grand slam champion | :33:12. | :33:23. | |
Novak Djokovic has apologised to a number of leading female tennis | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
players and spoken to Andy Murray, who criticised the world number one | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
following comments he made on Sunday. Djokovic suggested male | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
players should earn more as they generate more income but he claims | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
he was referring to more play across the board and said, I feel sorry if | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
in any way I heard Mike female colleague tennis players, I have a | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
huge respect for all of them. England's cricketers need to win | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
against Sri Lanka to keep on track for the semifinals at the World T20. | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
They were not good enough, according to Captain Owen Morgan, as they | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
narrowly avoided embarrassment to beat Afghanistan by 15 runs. | :33:58. | :34:05. | |
Wales meet Northern Ireland tonight ahead of the euros in a friendly. | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey are out of the vendor due to injury. | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
A loss of 370,000 council and housing association homes | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
by 2020 is what we're facing if current Government housing policy | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
continues the way it's going - that's what the Chair | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
of the Chartered Institute of Housing has told this programme. | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
David Cameron has said housing is a top priority for the Government | :34:31. | :34:44. | |
- he has promised to build 1 million homes this parliament, | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
carry out massive estate regeneration and, if a Bill | :34:48. | :34:49. | |
going through parliament at the moment becomes law, | :34:50. | :34:51. | |
will be offering housing association tenants in England the chance | :34:52. | :34:53. | |
to buy their own homes under a right-to-buy scheme which only | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
people living in council properties are currently entitled to. | :34:57. | :34:58. | |
But the Government also wants to make some more controversial | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
changes, like charging on or near market rents to people | :35:02. | :35:03. | |
in social housing who earn ?30,000 outside London | :35:04. | :35:05. | |
Our reporter Jim Reed has been taking a look at these changes. | :35:06. | :35:19. | |
It is being billed as the biggest shake-up in housing since the '80s. | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
An ambitious plan to build more so we all pay less. | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
Its critics say it could kill off affordable council housing | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
If what they want is ghettos and to kick out the poor, | :35:30. | :35:38. | |
then, you know, carry on what you are doing. | :35:39. | :35:40. | |
I would love somebody to answer that because I have never known it | :35:41. | :35:51. | |
I knew I would probably have to leave this house | :35:52. | :36:08. | |
because of my landlord dying last year. | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
The shock is being in the situation that I can't find anywhere to live, | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
Tam Avery lives with her teenage son a few hundred meters | :36:18. | :36:25. | |
She's worked all her life then last year she had a fall, | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
Now she's got to move in a few weeks and she is running out of options. | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
I've been looking for it must be now 14 weeks, | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
15 weeks, and privately I can't find anywhere to live and the main reason | :36:39. | :36:46. | |
Nobody wants housing benefit, and the council say there is not | :36:47. | :36:57. | |
enough properties and when there is one there are nearly 100 people | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
There are around 5000 council properties in this part of Kent. | :37:01. | :37:09. | |
There are 2500 people on the waiting list for social housing. | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
At the same time, there's a real shortage of affordable private | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
Most landlords simply refuse to take tenants on housing benefit. | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
I am stuck in the middle of no-man's-land. | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
Where do people go when they can't get a private rental and they can't | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
I would love somebody to answer that because I have never known it | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
If she stays here, she will eventually be evicted and can | :37:40. | :37:50. | |
Then the council may have to put the family | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
The other option is to move back into her parents' | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
I will end up sharing a bedroom with my 16-year-old son. | :38:01. | :38:11. | |
It shouldn't be this way and it shouldn't be my only option. | :38:12. | :38:23. | |
On housing there is one fact everyone agrees with. | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
We are just not building enough to keep up with our growing population. | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
We need more than 200,000 new properties every year. | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
a new housing bill is going through Parliament. | :38:35. | :38:47. | |
The Prime Minister says he wants to turn generation rent | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
He owns his home, I own my home, why won't we let those 1.3 million | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
In the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher gave millions of people living in council | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
houses the right to save up and buy their own home. | :39:05. | :39:12. | |
Now the Government wants to extend that right to the 1.3 million people | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
who live in housing association properties. | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
That is not-for-profit organisations which provide social housing in many | :39:20. | :39:21. | |
I have been living here now for 13 years. | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
All the children play out in the streets and the kids | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
You can see it is quite a shabby area where the shed was. | :39:33. | :39:43. | |
Fiona Daly has spent a decent chunk of her own money doing up a housing | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
authority home to better look after her disabled daughter. | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
Now she sees the chance to own her own place | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
I have actually looked into it myself and I could buy this | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
Then I could resell it for 330,000, so I would have a very good | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
It would be nice not to have the worry when we do retire | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
and we've got this as our security and we don't have to worry | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
about paying rent for the rest of our lives. | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
Tenants will be given a discount up to 103,000 off the market price. | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
20,000 families have already registered an interest. | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
Others worry about the long-term effects of the policy. | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
It is here in cities like Sheffield that it could bite. | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
Tens of thousands of council houses have already been sold off under | :40:41. | :40:49. | |
These will provide social rented homes for round about | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
New social housing is being built to replace them, | :40:53. | :40:59. | |
like this development 15 minutes | :41:00. | :41:00. | |
Some of them are one-bedrooms and we have duplos there. | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
These will be available for ?100 a week, well under the market rate. | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
But the worry is houses like this will not be replaced again | :41:11. | :41:12. | |
These homes behind me here, for example, if we are making them | :41:13. | :41:25. | |
available for the right-to-buy, we will be selling them at a lot | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
less than the homes cost us to build. | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
In particular a lot less than it would cost us to replace. | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
Our average value of a home that we will be selling | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
To replace them costs on average ?120,000. | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
We don't want to be seeing the stock that we are managing decline. | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
It is not what the region needs, it is not what the economy needs. | :41:45. | :41:53. | |
We want to be able to replace one-for-one. | :41:54. | :41:55. | |
Much easier to do that if you are in London | :41:56. | :41:57. | |
That is because house prices are so much higher in the South, | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
so selling off a property there means there should be more | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
than enough money to build another one. | :42:05. | :42:06. | |
That might not be the case in cities like Sheffield. | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
The Government has said housing associations will be compensated | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
and can opt out, but many are not convinced. | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
People who want to rent can't rent at affordable rates. | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
People who want to buy can't buy at affordable levels. | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
A year ago Teri Alafat was one of the most senior civil servants | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
in the Government's housing department. | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
Now she runs the Chartered Institute of Housing, an independent body. | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
Our problem with the bill now is that it is very focused | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
on delivering the supply that we need through home ownership. | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
We definitely think that we need more social housing and the reason | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
for that is that if you look across the developed world, | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
if you look at it historically, there is always about 20-25% | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
of the population who cannot afford to own their own home or to rent | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
What are we going to do about those groups of people | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
going into the future if we allow social housing | :43:07. | :43:08. | |
The Chartered Institute now thinks we could see the loss of another | :43:09. | :43:19. | |
370,000 low-cost social homes in the next four years. | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
That is almost one in ten properties, or a city | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
The Government disputes those figures and says it has been | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
building more council houses than the previous | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
But ministers also want to make better use of the homes we have got | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
and that has led to the most controversial part of | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
Under pay-to-stay, households earning more than ?30,000 a year | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
will have to start paying more to rent their council house. | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
The details have yet to be worked out but there will be a sliding | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
scale with higher earners paying the full market rate. | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
As you go up, you have the living room, where we watch telly and do | :44:05. | :44:15. | |
And over here, you will find the kitchen. | :44:16. | :44:29. | |
Salina came to this country from Portugal when she was 15. | :44:30. | :44:31. | |
She now works as a language teacher in an inner-city school in North | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
I would prefer not to show you upstairs because it is like | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
She and her husband bring home more than ?40,000 between them. | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
At the moment she pays ?160 per week rent for her two-bed flat | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
From next year she could be paying much more. | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
In a place like Islington it could be, for my flat, | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
It is impossible for somebody on ?40,000 to pay. | :44:54. | :45:04. | |
My daughter is 12 and she is in the local school at EGA and I am | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
going to have to tell her we might have to move out of London | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
If what they want is ghettos and to kick out the poor, | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
then, you know, carry on what you are doing. | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
But it is not right, it is just not right. | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
What do you say to people who might look at your situation and think, | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
"You earn a decent wage, your husband earns a decent wage, | :45:26. | :45:27. | |
we can't live in a society where social housing | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
I have thought about this very carefully. | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
When I got social housing, it was when I needed it. | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
I know there are families who need it now. | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
But the way the Government is looking at it, calling us rich | :45:45. | :45:51. | |
tenants, I cannot be considered a rich tenant when I can't | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
What is wrong is that market rent is so out of control. | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
Yes, I accept that London has become very expensive but at some point | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
Who is going to live in central London? | :46:05. | :46:13. | |
The sleek glass skyscrapers going up just a few hundred metres away | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
would suggest those customers are out there somewhere. | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
To some this is a sign of progress and growth, | :46:24. | :46:25. | |
to others a signal that it is time to move on, whether of course | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
You can watch and share that film online through our programme page. | :46:29. | :46:37. | |
Later at 10:15 we'll be hearing from Housing Minister Brandon Lewis | :46:38. | :46:49. | |
and speaking with a group of people affected by these housing changes. | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
If you're live in a housing association house, do you welcome | :46:53. | :46:54. | |
Are you going to be affected by the new pay to stay rules? | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
Still to come, the latest from Brussels as the lawyers for the | :47:00. | :47:20. | |
Paris attacks suspect, Salah Abdeslam says he won't fight | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
extradition from Belgium to France. Former Bosnian Serb leader | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
Radovan Karadzic, the man accused of war crimes including the worst | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
mass killing on European soil since World War II, will find out | :47:31. | :47:32. | |
this lunchtime his fate at the International | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
Tribunal in The Hague. First indicted for war crimes | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
by the United Nations 21 years ago, he faces 11 charges of genocide, | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
crimes against humanity and breaches of the Geneva Convention | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
for his role in the Bosnian War, including the Srebrenica massacre | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
in 1995 where Bosnian Serb forces killed more than 8,000 | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
Bosnian Muslims who were meant to be During his five year trial | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
where he defended himself, Mr Karadzic said he has a clear | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
conscience and there was 'no shred The civil war in | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
Bosnia was horrific. The world watched in horror | :48:13. | :48:21. | |
in the way the world is watching the civil war in | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
Syria now in horror. The charges against Karadzic | :48:26. | :48:27. | |
by the International War Crimes Tribunal, well, there are 11 | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
counts, specifically that he was the political | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
mastermind behind the massacre That was the worst massacre | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
in Europe since the Second World Thousands of unarmed Muslim men | :48:39. | :48:51. | |
and boys in Bosnia were massacred. He is also accused of masterminding | :48:52. | :49:03. | |
ethnic cleansing, when hundreds of thousand of people were just | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
driven from their homes in Bosnia. And also the siege of Sarajevo, | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
the capital of Bosnia. There was sniper fire, | :49:11. | :49:12. | |
there was mortar fire, Well, the wheels of justice | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
on Karadzic have moved really The hearing against him | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
began way back in 2008 It was very bizarre when they did | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
find him because he was hiding He had grown a huge, | :49:30. | :49:39. | |
bushy beard, he had big, thick-rimmed spectacles, | :49:40. | :49:47. | |
and he was a New Age healer with an assumed name, | :49:48. | :49:49. | |
a false identity. He was carrying out lectures | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
in alternative medicine. He even had a website | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
offering advice to people I did actually catch up with him | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
just before he went on the run. And are you guilty | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
of war crimes? I am President and I make my | :50:07. | :50:08. | |
decisions and give my orders that are all known in public and we have | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
never issued any wrong order. I think campaigners | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
for international justice think it is really important to put | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
on trial people who are accused of war crimes in however | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
many years it takes. And it has taken a number | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
of years with Karadzic, both to capture him | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
and put him on trial. They would say, the International | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
War Crimes Tribunal, that partly it is a deterrent | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
to stop other despots and dictators in the future carrying out terrible | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
atrocities and war Other people will say actually quite | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
a lot of people have been prosecuted and convicted at the war | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
crimes tribunal and there are still terrible atrocities going | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
on even now in places like Syria. Bob Donia gave evidence | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
during the trial as an expert witness, and was cross-examined | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
by Radovan Karadzic himself. Let's talk to Bob now. How would you | :51:12. | :51:25. | |
describe describe Radovan car joining? As a cross-examiner, he was | :51:26. | :51:40. | |
methodical, Aggressive and determined to get the answers he | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
wanted from me and other witnesses for that matter. I walked away | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
feeling that his most distinguishing trait was that he had enormous | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
powers of persuasion and a wide repertoire of strategies he'd use to | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
persuade people. The other thing that characterised him was a great | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
ability to change moods and approaches seamlessly depending on | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
what the situation called for. He could be calm and even charming and | :52:15. | :52:21. | |
cooperative and inviting and then 30 second on the later he would show a | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
burst of anger if an effort to get what he wanted from me, the | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
respondent. What specifically were you giving evidence about, Mr Donia? | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
I was an historical expert witness, so my task was to provide the judges | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
with a background of the events prior to and around the time of the | :52:46. | :52:53. | |
deeds alleged in the indictment. I did that and then learnt that in the | :52:54. | :53:07. | |
cross-examination, that Karadzic relied on the perpetual persecution | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
of the Serb people and of himself. So much of our exchanges centred on | :53:12. | :53:21. | |
the history of the Serb people and of Bosnia in the several years prior | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
to the time the war broke out. He was tried for leading the | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
slaughter of thousands of Bosnia Muslims and Croats. What with was | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
his defence? Well, he first of all is, was and remains in deep Dee Nile | :53:37. | :53:44. | |
about the -- denial about the deeds that he touched off or set in | :53:45. | :53:57. | |
motion. He totally denied responsibility for anything. The | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
other part of his defence was that the Serb people did nothing wrong. | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
There were crimes committed but they were committed by elements that were | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
rogue elements or paramilitaries which were not legitimately a part | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
of the Serb people. How significant could today's | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
judgment be and what are you expecting? I think it's going to be | :54:21. | :54:31. | |
a landmark event. Not only in the history of the trials of alleged war | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
criminals at The Hague, but also in the history of the tribunal which | :54:37. | :54:44. | |
has been plagued for the last several years with rather | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
inconsistent judgments and certain amounts of internal disagreement | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
among the judges. I think it's a very important decision, both to | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
secure the legacy of the tribunal and to show that these crimes can't | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
be committed with impunity any more. I think it's fair to expect that he | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
will be convicted on at least some of the charges, apart from genocide, | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
that is the crimes against humanity and violation of the laws in customs | :55:17. | :55:25. | |
of war. The yen side charges, it's very difficult to predict or foresee | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
what the judges will do -- the genocide charges. The charges | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
pertaining to Srebrenica have been litigated before in other cases and | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
other persons have been found guilty of actually committing genocide or | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
aiding and abetting genocide. So there's certainly reason to believe | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
that Karadzic will also be convicted on that count. Sorry, do finish your | :55:52. | :56:02. | |
sentence. On the other hand, the charge of genocide in 1992 is going | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
to be a very difficult one for the prosecutors to prevail on. That has | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
also been litigated on before but without success in some other cases. | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
Thank you very much for your time today, Bob Donia, who gave evidence | :56:20. | :56:21. | |
at the trial of Radovan Karadzic. Now let's talk with Guy Delauney | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
in Sarajevo, the capital of Bosnia, for us this morning where | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
the verdict will be shown Guy, firstly is it still the plan to | :56:30. | :56:40. | |
have the verdict live this lunch time? We are not having a screen | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
here, the weather put paid to that, but people will be keenly following | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
events. I've been speaking to all sorts of people about what they are | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
going to do. You can see this green monument, a monument to the children | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
killed during the siege of Sarajevo. There were more than 500 names | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
inscribed on that monument. In fact, an estimated 1600 children were | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
killed during the siege of Sarajevo and that's one of the key charges | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
against Radovan Karadzic that he knowingly ordered those under his | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
command to shell and snipe civilians in Sarajevo during the four-year | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
siege of this city. Down there yesterday, I spoke to a man who'd | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
lost his 13-year-old son to a hand grenade attack in 1992. He described | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
Radovan Karadzic as the worst man in the Balkans and said he and other | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
parents who'd lost children would be planning to waffle together today in | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
an association that they have. They would be watching the verdict today | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
very keenly -- planning to watch together. He said he could never | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
forgive what had happened but wanted Bosnia to move on. Thank you very | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
much. Still to come, Adam Johnson will be sentenced this morning after | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
being found guilty of sexual activity with a 15-year-old | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
schoolgirl. The NSPCC are calling for the Football Association to do | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
more to protect children. We'll talk to them in the next hour. Time for | :58:06. | :58:12. | |
the latest weather now with Carol. Good morning. This weekend we have | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
got a bit of everything. Stronger winds, spells of rain and also some | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
sunshine. We have started off on a dry and bright note across central | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
and eastern areas. Rain and gusty winds already in the north and west | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
will continue to push south through the course of the day, eventually | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
getting into the far south-east and east later. Brighter skies, sunshine | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
and showers will be the case this afternoon across Northern Ireland. | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
Temperatures roughly where they should be at this stage in navrmt | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
for Scotland, a similar story -- for stage in March. Sunny spells and | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
showers in Scotland. The showers continuing behind the band of rain | :58:54. | :59:02. | |
down towards the Peak District. Parts of Kent staying dry until | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
later, but the rain is coming your way. Across the south, we are back | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
under that rain and, despite the temperatures, it will feel chillier | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
if you are stuck under it. The same in Wales, the rain becomes ensconced | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
into the afternoon and early part of the the evening. Through the | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
overnight period, fronts bringing this rain will continue to edge off | :59:24. | :59:30. | |
into the near continent. Just the back edge of the rain clinging on. | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
The temperatures will drop tomorrow. Where the cloud breaks in the north, | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
we could see pockets of frost. Then we lose the rain, which clears off | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
to the near continent completely. High pressure leaving us with a | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
settled day and lengthy sunny spells. The wind will strengthen, | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
the cloud will build and that's ahead of the next weather front | :59:52. | :59:54. | |
coming our way. That front during the course of Saturday will be | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
moving from the west to the east, again accompanied by windy | :59:59. | :00:00. | |
conditions and we'll be looking at coastal gales as well. By the time | :00:01. | :00:02. | |
we get properties, and when there is one, | :00:03. | :01:22. | |
there were nearly 100 people going for it. | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
All that to come, but first Annita is in the BBC Newsroom | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
for us with the latest on fast-developing events in | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
Police in Brussels are continuing their search for a suspect, | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
pictured wearing a white jacket on CCTV footage at the airport | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
shortly before the attacks took on Tuesday. | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
It's thought he escaped after his two accomplices | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
31 people have been confirmed dead with hundreds more injured, | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
Salah Abdeslam - one of the suspects in last year's Paris terror attacks- | :01:50. | :01:57. | |
will not fight extradition from Belgium. | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
He was arrested and wounded in a police raid on Friday | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
His lawyer said that he wants to return to France to explain | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
TRANSLATION: Salah Abdeslam have asked to be extradited to France, | :02:10. | :02:22. | |
the process will take approximately two weeks. On March 31 he will | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
appear in court to execute the European extradition warrant, we | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
need 15 days to finish the process but there will be no appeal or | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
challenge, we will implement his wish and this is a good thing. | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
Here, the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, has said the terror | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
threat shows this isn't the time to be leaving the European Union. | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
He was speaking after a former head of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
argued that a British exit could lead to important security | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
gains for the UK, including greater control over immigration | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
A UN war crimes tribunal is to return its verdict today | :02:50. | :02:59. | |
in the case of the former Bosnian-Serb leader Radovan | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
He's accused of genocide and crimes against humanity related to the war | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
At least 100,000 people died in the conflict, | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
before an American-brokered peace deal brought the fighting | :03:11. | :03:12. | |
Adam Johnson, the ex-Sunderland football player, has arrived at | :03:13. | :03:23. | |
court and is due to be sentenced after he was found guilty of one | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
count of six-year-old activity with a 15-year-old schoolgirl. Johnson | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
was told by a judge he faced a substantial prison sentence after he | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
was found guilty of one offence of six-year-old activity with a child | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
by a jury earlier this month. The winger had already admitted another | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
count of the same offence and also grooming the teenager. | :03:43. | :03:44. | |
Police are appealing for information after two women were murdered | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
The attacks took place in different locations yesterday evening. | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
A 34-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Australia says aircraft debris found off the coast of Mozambique | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
is almost certainly from missing Malaysian Airlines plane MH370. | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
Two parts of a plane were found separately by members of the public | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
and were flown to Australia last month for analysis. | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
Flight MH370 vanished in March 2014 with 238 people on board. | :04:14. | :04:24. | |
The bodies of a man and a woman have been found by rescuers searching | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
for two climbers who've been missing on Ben Nevis since February. | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
Rachel Slater and Tim Newton, from Bradford, failed to return | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
from an outing on the mountain and hazardous weather hampered | :04:36. | :04:37. | |
Police Scotland said the families of the two climbers | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News, Victoria - | :04:44. | :04:52. | |
Do get in touch with us throughout the morning - | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
I have got some comments from you about housing, I will read those | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
after the sport. Wales and Northern Ireland meet | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
for the first time in 12 years tonight for a friendly in Cardiff | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
as both gear up for a long awaited appearance at a major tournament | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
at the Euros this summer. Wales have plenty of injuries | :05:14. | :05:15. | |
with key players Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey missing | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
out this evening. We can go live to the Cardiff City | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
Stadium and say good morning Good morning. Tonight is a chance | :05:21. | :05:34. | |
for two history making teams to test each other, both having waited | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
decades the tournament football. For Wales, 58 years of pain and waiting, | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
just two months to go now. Getting to that tournament was no small | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
measure down to the talents of Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey, both | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
missing tonight, but Chris Coleman said it is an opportunity to show | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
they are more than a one or two man team, that they have other key | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
players who have got them over the line, so expect a slightly different | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
line-up, maybe younger talent coming through, possibly some young players | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
getting their chance to stake a claim for a place in that squad that | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
will fly to France in June. According to Chris Coleman, it might | :06:12. | :06:21. | |
be a friendly but it will be feisty, he wants his team to show they have | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
a bit of metal without the big-name players, he says they should take | :06:25. | :06:26. | |
pride in every appearance they make for Wales. | :06:27. | :06:28. | |
I'm looking forward to it, two important games for us, as it always | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
is. I know everybody says two friendly games, but I have never | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
gone into a game playing for Wales thinking that it didn't matter, | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
neither do the players. So it is a big one for us. What | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
about their opponents, Northern Ireland? They have had just 30 year | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
wait, short by comparison for major tournament football, and they go | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
into it in very, very good form, unbeaten in eight games and so | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Michael O'Neill said to his players they need to carry on that momentum | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
if they are going to make any sort of mark when they reach France in | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
June. Then might be disappointed that there is no Gareth Bale or | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
Aaron Ramsey this evening to test their mettle because their opponents | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
this evening will be pretty tough, but they said they will concentrate | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
tonight despite the line-up, because they need to make an expression. | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
-- an impression. We are going to play against brilliant individual | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
players, which Arab Baylis, and Aaron Ramsey as well, which is in | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
notice respect to the rest of the squad, who are all great | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
international players. It would have been good for our preparation to | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
have to deal with that, but equally the fact they are not playing sets | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
us a different challenge. So we are told tonight it will be | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
more feisty than friendly, lots of players battling to prove a point | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
that they are worthy of a place when the European Championships, round in | :08:01. | :08:01. | |
June. Scotland are also in action tonight, | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
they're playing a friendly That's all the sport | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
for now Victoria. I'll have the latest headlines | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
for you at 10.30pm. Police in Brussels investigating | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
the airport and metro bombings which killed at least 31 people | :08:14. | :08:22. | |
are hunting for a suspect, pictured wearing a white jacket | :08:23. | :08:24. | |
on CCTV footage at the airport shortly before the attacks took | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
place. It's thought he escaped | :08:28. | :08:28. | |
after his two accomplices Unconfirmed reports suggest one | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
of the suicide bombers was Najim Laachraoui, | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
believed to have been involved in the planning of | :08:37. | :08:38. | |
the Paris atrocities. Some more names and nationalities | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
of the victims have though only a handful have been | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
formally identified, as the city enters a second day | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
of national mourning. A focal point for tributes | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
is still the Place de la Bourse where our reporter Ben Brown | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
is for us this morning What is the latest from their? I | :08:56. | :09:09. | |
will bring you the latest we have coming in at that Salah Abdeslam, | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
the 20 the Gibraltan was arrested last Friday, a key suspect who has | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
been here in Brussels but who was wanted after the Paras attacks -- | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
the 26-year-old man. He was thought to have escaped after the Paras | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
attacks from France into Belgian comedy was finally arrested after | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
four months on the run last Friday, lots of links between him and the | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
Paras attack of and also the Brussels | :09:33. | :09:45. | |
attackers here, it is thought after he was arrested the other attackers | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
may have brought forward the bombings that we saw at the airport | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
and at the Metro. He has now said through his lawyer he does not want | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
to be extradited to France, he was originally fighting extradition, he | :09:55. | :09:56. | |
now says he wants to go to France as quickly as possible, he says, in | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
order to explain himself in front, and he has said he did not know | :10:00. | :10:01. | |
anything about the attacks that were carried out here in Brussels. The | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
prosecution will probably take that with a pinch of salt and say that he | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
would say that, wouldn't he, but that is the latest on Salah | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
Abdeslam. The latest here, we're in customer | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
balls, which has become a focal point for the grief and mourning | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
here and you can see a makeshift shrine -- Place de la Bourse. People | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
have been coming here to lay flowers, light candles. I will show | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
you a bit more, there is another bigger shrine over here. This is | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
where, through the day, people come and they want to express their | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
sadness and their grief, and their feelings of horror, really, at what | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
has happened here in this city. You can see some of the messages that | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
have been laid out, peace, messages like, I am Brussels, an echo of eye | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
and Paris and I and Charlie, after the attacks that we saw in Paris -- | :10:57. | :11:05. | |
I am Paris, I am Charlie. We can talk to Rhiannon, a student | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
from Aberystwyth, you are living here in Belgium at the moment? Why | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
have you come here to plaster the borders? -- Plas de la Bella was. | :11:14. | :11:25. | |
Hearing the news, filling the secluded, it felt surreal and I came | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
a duty to come here and pay my respects. Being here in Belgium, do | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
you feel that there could be more attacks? I certainly think it is a | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
possibility, but it is hard to tell, it could happen anywhere, so it is | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
unlikely to happen in the same place twice, so really it is impossible to | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
know. A lot of people were predicting there could be attacks in | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
Brussels after the Paras attacks, were you almost expecting something | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
like this to happen? Definitely, we were expecting something in November | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
but nothing happens when you expect it to, so it has been over our heads | :11:59. | :12:06. | |
this entire time. I just hope that the worst is over. What are your | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
feelings after these attacks? You wanted to come here to pay your | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
respects to the dead and remember the dead? Yes, I think it is so | :12:16. | :12:23. | |
horrific, I feel so upset by it and so shocked, really. You can see | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
these things on the news but you never expected to happen so close to | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
you, and so I certainly felt a duty to come here. But you are still | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
going to stay living in Belgium for the time being, you don't want to go | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
back to Britain for now? I don't think it is necessary to change a | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
big thing because of this, because then you have let them win. I want | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
to finish my university course here, and then move home. Good to talk to | :12:51. | :12:58. | |
you, Rhiannon, thank you so much. Let me just tell you about the | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
latest we have on the casualty figures from the health ministry | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
here, 31 dead is the death toll, they are saying 300 were injured in | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
the bombings at the airport and the Metro, a huge number of casualties | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
taken to hospitals, a lot of them suffering from burns and shrapnel | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
injuries, too. We hear from the health ministry that they are almost | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
injuries that you would see on a battlefield, | :13:23. | :13:37. | |
some 60 of the injured are in intensive care, some are in a coma, | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
they have not been identified. At the moment, the authorities having | :13:42. | :13:43. | |
trouble identifying all of the casualties, which is making things | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
even harder for the relatives of loved ones who are missing. That is | :13:47. | :13:47. | |
the latest from Brussels. Here, a former head of MI6, | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
Sir Richard Dearlove, has questioned claims that leaving | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
the EU would compromise security. But the Defence Secretary, | :13:56. | :13:57. | |
Michael Fallon, said the recent terror attacks showed the need | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
for more cooperation with the EU. Live to Westminster and our | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
political guru Norman Smith. Fill us in. | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
It is interesting, the questions about the Belgian security forces, | :14:07. | :14:08. | |
the calibre and whether they were fully on top of the situation has | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
really sparked a debate here about whether we were safer in other | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
outside of the European Union. People like Theresa May, David | :14:19. | :14:28. | |
Cameron, by and large saying that we are safer in, but this morning we | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
had the former head of MI6, one of our top former spooks, man called | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
Sir Richard Dearlove, basically saying, no, that is wrong. Let me | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
give you the exact quote from Sir Richard Dearlove. He said: The cost | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
to Britain would be low in security terms from leaving the EU. | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
What is interesting about his argument, he is not basing it just | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
around arguments of what sort of controls we have over our borders if | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
we remain in the EU, he is questioning basically whether EU | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
security bodies are good enough, because he says organisations like | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
Europol, the European law-enforcement agency, is of little | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
consequence. He says that because you have got 28 different countries | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
all sitting around a table... Excuse me, we have got a fire alarm going | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
on here, probably better if you come back to me in a bit because in my | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
experience this can go on for some time and is quite annoying and quite | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
loud, so we probably should just leave this for the time being, I | :15:37. | :15:38. | |
think. Yesterday, John Reid told us he | :15:39. | :15:50. | |
thought a further terrorist attack in Britain was now inevitable. | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
Unfortunately, we can't guarantee, nor can any Government, that this | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
sort of thing won't happen. Politicians ought to be honest with | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
the British people and tell them, this will happen, this will happen, | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
and it will happen here because the terrorists only have to get through | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
once so we can quote the statistics and how many plots have been foiled, | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
but the terrorists will get through. So you are expecting another attack, | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
another terrorist attack in this country at some point in the future? | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
Yes, yes I am. I don't think that's a secret because, as you know, we | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
are at the second highest level of threat which is severe which means a | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
terrorist attack is likely. And Britain has been at that threat | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
level for some time? For some time. When I was Home Secretary, it was | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
moved up to critical which means not only is an attack likely but we have | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
information that it's imminent. It's different in the UK from, for | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
instance, Belgium and I think you were raising some difficult issues | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
in your previous interview. With the ambassador? Yes. At a time like | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
this, our first thought is for the victims and condolences and | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
solidarity with the nations and the individuals who've been affected. | :17:14. | :17:21. | |
But, you know, you have to have a delicate and difficult balance with | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
the issues raised. Belgium's historically had a degree of | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
political instability. I think it's recognised that their Intelligence | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
Services aren't as integrated in working together as perhaps ours are | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
now. We use the police in a relationship with the Intelligence | :17:43. | :17:44. | |
Services because, on the ground in the communities, you can pick up | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
some pretty vital information and I think we are quite well resourced. | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
John Reid talking to us yesterday. Let's look at what is being done to | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
prevent terror attacks from happening in the UK. Frank Armstrong | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
is former assistant commissioner of the City of London police who looked | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
after Tony Blair when he was Prime Minister and the aviation security | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
expert Matthew Finn is in our Westminster studio. Frank, do you | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
agree with John Reid? I think John Reid makes a very good point. It's | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
possible, Victoria. You have to look at the facts. In the last three | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
years, there has been a 57% increase in arrests related to terrorism. | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
There are a number of outstanding trials which still have to come to | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
court. There were convictions yesterday, potential drive-by | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
shooting. Looking at all the facts, Brussels, Paris, a Eurostar trip | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
away from London, I think, you know, we do need to be concerned, we do | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
need to be vigilant. The threat level severe and has been for some | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
time as I said to John Reid yesterday but it's not been raised | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
to the highest level which means an attack is imminent, that's surely | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
significant? There will have been discussions. JTAC would look at the | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
whole picture and make recommendations. I'm sure it's been | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
closely scrutinised. We have thwarted seven attempts in the last | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
12 months. I'm sure the Security Services and the police are doing | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
everything they can to make sure that the public are safe. Mr Finn | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
you have said one-size-fits-all doesn't fit with the security in | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
this country, what do you mean? What's required in security context | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
is to make sure you are managing risk, a good security framework is | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
about managing the risks as you understand them in that specific | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
context. So what I mean by that is, what works in one airport or one | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
part of the world would need to be adapted in a different part of the | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
world or the airport. So if we are always applying the same tools and | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
techniques and procedures to every single person going through | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
security, we are missing the opportunity to actually look at the | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
potential risks the individual travellers may pose. What we are | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
seeing in the US for example, is a programme called TSA Pre--check. | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
There are a lot of people in the industry looking at this. This is a | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
way of working with data to see for example whether a person's | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
travelling on a one-way destination ticket which may be of concern. That | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
would potentially reveal something about that person's behaviour which | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
would give you cause to be vigilant, screen them in a different way and | :20:31. | :20:41. | |
focus your attention on that person. So would you check that ticket, | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
whether it was one way or return or whatever when the passenger arrives | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
or would you have done it before they get to the terminal? There is | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
an interesting debate in Brussels at the moment which is nearly coming to | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
a close and that's around a piece of data called passenger name record | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
data or PNR. That's something the Governments across the 28 member | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
states of the European Union are looking to use in their response to | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
combat serious organised crime and Counter-Terrorism. So in an | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
environment like JTAC or indeed the UK's national borders targeting | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
centre, you could be using that data before anyone gets anywhere near the | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
airport to see what patterns may emerge. What if they've not bought a | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
ticket, what if they are not on a passenger list, what if, as far as | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
we know the suicide bombers that turned up in Brussels on Tuesday may | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
have turned up that morning without buying anything in advance, they are | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
going to blow themselves up? That is an excellent point and that's where | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
the distinction needs to be made because an airport is essentially | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
divided into two parts, there's the regulated area, then the other | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
air-side area. What we saw in Brussels, the tragedy that unfolded | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
there was the exploitation of the soft target, the vulnerable side, | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
the public space. So what we need to do as an industry together with | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
Government, and this is a global issue, not just about Belgium or | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
about Brussels, is to look holtistically at how we can secure | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
the entire airport campus by working together using different tools, | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
techniques, data et cetera because you are right, someone could be in | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
that departures hall that has no business being there, they are not | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
travelling, they are not there to say goodbye to a fellow passenger | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
that might be leaving that day. Frank Armstrong, as a former | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
assistant Commissioner of The City of London police, you ordered police | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
on to the streets of the city after 9/11 and a lot of people said, that | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
made them feel very uneasy, rather than reassuring them? What was | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
interesting, we put additional firearms officers out on the City | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
and because people weren't used to it, they were concerned. Since then, | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
we have had 7/7, we have seen attacks across the globe, people are | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
more used to seeing police officers with firearms, so it's very much | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
about reassurance and a preventative measure. People are getting used to | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
it and, as you see in Brussels, the Army are deployed there. At some | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
stage, the Army could be deployed here, worst case scenario. Again, | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
would that be for reassurance purposes? We have limited resources. | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
If there was a state of emergency, we've got to use all the resources | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
possible and the Army would be a last resort but in the back of our | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
minds, we need to know they are there to assist. It's basically to | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
keep the country safe. Thank you both very much. | :23:37. | :23:44. | |
Still to come: Adam Johnson is running into court there this | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
morning ahead of his sentencing for sexual activity with a 15-year-old | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
schoolgirl. The NSPCC call on the Football Association to do more to | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
protect children. Next, Boko Haram, the militant group based in Nigeria | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
who kidnapped almost 300 schoolgirls two years ago. It was also in 2014 | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
that the extremists started to use female suicide bombers. As the | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
insurgency has been pushed out of the region's towns and villages, | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
events have taken a more sinister turn. Girls as young as 12 are being | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
strapped with explosives and sent to blow themselves up in busy | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
communities. In an exclusive interview for BBC Africa, Anne Soy | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
has spoken to a teenager who risked her life to escape after being told | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
she'd been chosen for the mission. Some details including her name and | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
voice have been changed to protect her identity. | :24:46. | :24:55. | |
This is Hawa, she's about 17. She married into Boko Haram and moved | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
into one of the camps with her fighter husband. Today, she isn't | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
meant to be alive. She's supposed to be a human bomb. | :25:08. | :25:15. | |
Two of her friends did just that, killing themselves and 58 others, | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
mostly women and children. Just 24 hours before she was due to | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
detonate, she's kept the clutches of the militants and has decided to | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
tell us her story -- she escaped the clutches of the militants. We have | :25:35. | :25:42. | |
agreed to keep her identity secret. My first husband took me to the Boko | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
Haram camp. He said they would take me to the bush and move all the evil | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
spirits from my body. I knew they were Boko Haram but followed them | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
willingly. I said, if you help me remove the sickness, I will follow | :25:57. | :26:04. | |
you. It wasn't a pleasant life. When they came back, they would gather us | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
and tell us about the attacks and they would ask us to study what they | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
were teaching us. That's how we got indoctrine ated. They said, if we | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
died, we'd enter paradise. Once, a woman went somewhere without telling | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
them. They gathered all the women together and killed her in front of | :26:23. | :26:30. | |
us as a warning. They shot her. They wanted me to marry again after my | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
husband left and I said no, I won't. That's when they told me I should | :26:35. | :26:44. | |
take the bomb. Does that mean they only asked women to be suicide | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
bombers? Yes, when they are tired of you, they'll tell you to two on a | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
suicide mission. We were told to detonate at a camp. I said no. Since | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
my mum was residing in that area, I wouldn't go and kill people, I would | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
rather go and live with my family, even if I die there. So I sneaked | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
out very early in the morning without their knowledge. The | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
following morning I got there. That is when I learnt there had been a | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
bomb-blast. I saw a video of the mutilated body of one of the girls. | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
It wasn't pleasant to see. It isn't a good thing to carry a bomb to kill | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
fellow human beings. This is the spot where the February attack | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
happened. There are still bloodstains on the a road, a | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
constant reminder to residents of what happened here during that | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
attack. Many are survivors or even lost their loved ones. We are told | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
there was a huge crowd crossing the road from one side of the camp to | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
the other to collect water and food. Queueing in the camp is now banned, | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
instead the line is formed and residents sit quietly waiting for | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
their turn. Mass cooking is forbidden. Instead, meals are | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
prepared in small communities. All this to prevent further attacks. But | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
people here are still scared. They can't trust anyone, not even churn | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
children. Fatima was injured. She still can't sleep after what she's | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
saw. TRANSLATION: We brought our | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
containers to get water. At the same time, a soldier was trying to | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
arrange our queues. There was this woman wearing a red veil. She had | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
long hair. She said, can't we beat up this soldier who is trying to | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
disperse us. When I heard that, I turned back to look at her. As soon | :28:41. | :28:48. | |
as I walked on to the road, she shouted, pretending that her stomach | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
was hurting her, so people rushed to help her. That was when the bomb | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
detonated. It was like something was put around us. I saw a ball of fire. | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
I was frightened when I saw blood all around me and the dead bodies. | :29:03. | :29:12. | |
We are still terrified. For this woman, her ordeal is over. She | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
finally feels safe and is planning her future outside of Boko Haram. If | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
I will marry again, I won't have anything to do with the mill tans. I | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
will marry if I find a suitor. I want to go to school. Had it been I | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
went to school, I would have known everything I wanted to know. I'm so | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
happy and excited for that. Coming up: We'll have the latest | :29:34. | :29:44. | |
from Bradford Crown Court as former Sunderland player Adam Johnson is | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
due to be sentenced after he was found guilty of one count of sexual | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
activity with a 15-year-old schoolgirl. | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
And where are you going to live? The Government says housing is a top | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
priority but hundreds of thousands of council and Housing Association | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
homes in England could be lost if its new plans go ahead, say critics. | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
We'll talk to some who could be affected. | :30:07. | :30:15. | |
Annita is in the BBC Newsroom and has more on that and a summary | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
Police in Brussels are continuing their search for a suspect, | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
pictured wearing a white jacket on CCTV footage at the airport | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
shortly before the attacks took on Tuesday. | :30:27. | :30:28. | |
It's thought he escaped after his two accomplices | :30:29. | :30:29. | |
31 people have been confirmed dead with hundreds more injured, | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
Salah Abdeslam - one of the suspects in last year's Paris terror attacks- | :30:34. | :30:42. | |
will not fight extradition from Belgium. | :30:43. | :30:43. | |
He was arrested and wounded in a police raid on Friday | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
His lawyer said that he wants to return to France to explain | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
TRANSLATION: Salah Abdeslam has asked to be extradited to France, | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
the process will take approximately two weeks. | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
TRANSLATION: Salah Abdeslam has asked to be extradited to France, | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
On March 31st he will appear in court to execute the European | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
extradition warrant, we need 15 days to finish | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
the process but there will be no appeal or challenge, | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
we will implement his wish and this is a good thing. | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
Here, the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, has said the terror | :31:18. | :31:19. | |
threat shows this isn't the time to be leaving the European Union. | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
He was speaking after a former head of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
argued that a British exit could lead to important security | :31:26. | :31:27. | |
gains for the UK, including greater control over immigration | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
A UN war crimes tribunal is to return its verdict today | :31:30. | :31:42. | |
in the case of the former Bosnian-Serb leader Radovan | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
He's accused of genocide and crimes against humanity related to the war | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
At least 100,000 people died in the conflict, | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
before an American-brokered peace deal brought the fighting | :31:53. | :31:54. | |
Adam Johnson, the ex-Sunderland football player, has arrived | :31:55. | :32:04. | |
at court and is due to be sentenced after he was found guilty of one | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
count of sexual activity with a 15-year-old schoolgirl. | :32:09. | :32:09. | |
Johnson was told by a judge he faced a substantial prison sentence | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
after he was found guilty of one offence of sexual activity | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
with a child by a jury earlier this month. | :32:16. | :32:17. | |
The winger had already admitted another | :32:18. | :32:19. | |
count of the same offence and also grooming the teenager. | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
Police are appealing for information after two women were murdered | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
The attacks took place in different locations yesterday evening. | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
A 34-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
The bodies of a man and a woman have been found by rescuers searching | :32:35. | :32:44. | |
for two climbers who've been missing on Ben Nevis since February. | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
Rachel Slater and Tim Newton, from Bradford, failed to return | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
from an outing on the mountain and hazardous weather hampered | :32:50. | :32:51. | |
Police Scotland said the families of the two climbers | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC Newsroom | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
Time for some sport. Formula 1 will no longer be shown on | :33:01. | :33:14. | |
to wrest real television from 2019, Sky Sports announcing it has signed | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
an exclusive deal to broadcast the races. It said it will show the | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
whole of the British Grand Prix on a new free to air channel. | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland meet in a friendly tonight ahead of the Euros, | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
Wales without injured key players Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey. | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
Scotland play a friendly in the Czech Republic. | :33:35. | :33:36. | |
Tennis world another one Novak Djokovic has apologised to a number | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
of leading female players following comments he made on Sunday. He | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
suggested male players should earn more as they generate more income. | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
He now says he was referring to more pay across the board. | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
That is all the sport, more on the BBC News Channel. | :33:54. | :33:54. | |
A loss of 370,000 council and housing association homes | :33:55. | :33:56. | |
by 2020 is what we're facing if current Government housing policy | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
continues the way it's going - that's what the Chair | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
of the Chartered Institute of Housing has told this programme. | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
David Cameron has said housing is a top priority | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
for the Government, promising to build 1 million | :34:14. | :34:14. | |
But the Government also wants to make some more controversial | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
changes, like charging on or near market rents to people | :34:19. | :34:20. | |
in social housing who earn ?30,000 outside London | :34:21. | :34:22. | |
Our reporter Jim Reed has been speaking to someone facing eviction | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
and struggling to find somewhere for her and her teenage son to live. | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
My son was born here, so, yes, I have been here 16 years. | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
I knew I would probably have to leave this house | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
because of my landlord dying last year. | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
The shock is being in the situation that I can't find anywhere to live, | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
Tam Avery lives with her teenage son a few hundred metres | :34:57. | :35:05. | |
She's worked all her life, then last year she had a fall, | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
Now she's got to move in a few weeks and she is running out of options. | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
I've been looking for it must be now 14 weeks, | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
15 weeks, and I can't find privately anywhere to live and the main reason | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
Nobody wants housing benefit, and council-wise there's not enough | :35:27. | :35:35. | |
properties and when there is one there are nearly 100 | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
There are around 5000 council properties in this part of Kent. | :35:39. | :35:49. | |
There are 2500 people on the waiting list for social housing. | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
At the same time, there's a real shortage of affordable private | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
Most landlords simply refuse to take tenants on housing benefit. | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
I am stuck in the middle of no-man's-land. | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
Where do people go when they can't get a private rental and they can't | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
I would love somebody to answer that because I've never known | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
If she stays here, she will eventually be evicted and can | :36:18. | :36:28. | |
Then the council may have to put the family | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
The other option is to move back into her parents' | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
I will end up sharing a bedroom with my 16-year-old son. | :36:38. | :36:48. | |
It shouldn't be this way and it shouldn't be my only option. | :36:49. | :37:03. | |
I will challenge anybody out there to find me somewhere to live. | :37:04. | :37:12. | |
Our political guru Norman Smith has been talking with | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
Housing Minister Brandon Lewis about what he's doing to deal | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
What we're doing is working to support people who want a chance to | :37:20. | :37:29. | |
own their own home, whether it is to help to buy, right to buy, a range | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
of the schemes including shared ownership where people can get into | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
ownership for about ?4000, we want to give people the chance to own | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
their home. I am also clear, we want to see an increase in housing supply | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
across all sectors, not just social housing, but affordable housing as | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
well. On so-called pay to stay, reports | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
had sent higher rents would kick in at 30 or ?40,000 depending on | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
whether you are in London, but Mr Lewis says it is not quite like | :38:00. | :38:01. | |
that. First of all, that is not how the | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
scheme will work, we have been clear from the beginning that it tapers, | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
we have consulted on this, there will be a table which means when | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
people move above ?30,000 outside London, which is above the median | :38:13. | :38:24. | |
income, 40,000 in London, they start to pay a bit more rent. Bear in mind | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
there are tens of thousands of people owning over -- earning over | :38:28. | :38:29. | |
?50,000 a year and using social housing. There will be a table, it | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
will not have a cliff edge, it will always pay to work, and we will be | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
clear that the table will make sure it is affordable to people. | :38:36. | :38:44. | |
With me is Lord Bob Kerslake, former head for the civil | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
service of the Communities and Local Government department | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
and Chair of Housing Association the Peabody Trust. | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
Lord Kerslake says this housing bill could be the "end of social housing | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
Jan Sweeney and her husband have a household income of just over | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
the ?40,000 suggested upper limit before paying market rent | :39:01. | :39:02. | |
on her home in Kensington and Chelsea - one of London's | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
Jan thinks she might have to move or give up work if this becomes law. | :39:06. | :39:19. | |
Carolyn Gelenter would also be affected by pay-to-stay measures | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
and is thinking about cutting back her hours to part-time | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
so she can afford to stay in her flat. | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
Carolyn is also worried about suggested changes to secure | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
tenancies - the idea of having a council house for life. | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
Carolyn Gelenter would also be affected by pay-to-stay measures | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
And Linzi Cooper and Rozlin Hunt are in Eastleigh for us this morning. | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
They are neighbours in Housing Association homes | :39:39. | :39:40. | |
and would love to buy their homes - if the chance for them to buy them | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
Linzi and Roz have been neighbours for four years. | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
Lord Kerslake, you say these plans could be the end of social housing | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
as we know it, why? The combination of policies that the Government is | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
taking forward will really impact on those ordinary people who live in | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
their properties now. First of all, the Government is cutting back on | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
the investment in new and affordable homes. Secondly, people who are | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
paying, earning a bit more, people we will hear about later one are | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
going to have to start paying a lot more rent, that is a big issue. | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
Crucially, the way in which the Government wants to fund the | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
opportunity for people to buy, and we will hear about them, is going to | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
come from the forced sale of council houses, so you will lose two houses, | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
one from the right-to-buy sale and one from the council sale. | :40:34. | :40:46. | |
Typically higher value properties in areas where people want to live, | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
they are the bigger properties, the ones most in demand. Councils are | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
supposed to replace the one they have sold to fund the discount for | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
the ones buying the housing association home like-for-like. You | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
sell one, you build another one. We all hope that will be the case but | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
the reality so far of the one policy is that for every eight sold, only | :41:00. | :41:07. | |
one being built. Carolyn and Jan, Carolyn, you own over ?40,000, you | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
are a higher rate taxpayer, Jan, you and your husband earned just over | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
the ?40,000 pay-to-stay limit which has been suggested for London, what | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
impact will a rents rise have on your families, even if it is tapered | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
as Brandon Lewis suggests? First of all, I don't know what that means, | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
second ball... It means it will go just a little up depending on what | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
your salary is. Yes, but I don't know what that means in practice. At | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
the moment, my flat, a one-bedroom flat in central London, in Camden, | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
the private rent is ?2500 per month. By my calculation, you would have to | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
be earning at least double what I'm earning to be able to afford to pay | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
that kind of... Do you mind me asking what you pay at the moment? | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
?650 per month for a council rent. That is a big difference. A huge | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
difference. Jan, what difference will it have on you and your husband | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
if the rent is put up to market rates, as the Government is | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
suggesting? I would have to give up work to keep the rent as it is now. | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
I am at a stage in my life where I can do the odd treat with the | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
grandchildren, not expensive holidays, we don't even own a car, | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
but I'm just at that stage in my life where I don't have to worry so | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
much about money, and now this will bring me back down to the bread | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
line. This is the critical issue, when this policy was first thought | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
it was aimed at people over 60,000, people aren't quite high incomes, | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
but bringing down the level of the income to 30 and 40, 40 is not a lot | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
in London as anybody who lives in London will tell you, you are | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
heading into a lot bigger issues, a bigger number of people. This is | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
what the Government says, quote, it is not fair that hard-working people | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
are subsidising the lifestyles of those on higher than average incomes | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
to the tune of ?3500 per year. Where does this figure come from anger | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
that thread I have spoken to several councillors where I live and asked | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
them, is my rent subsidised? There and that is, no, you are paying more | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
than what you need to pay. We put the extra money aside for a | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
contingency fund, so where does this bigger come from? And, excuse me, | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
I'm a hard-working taxpayer! I don't doubt it. The other thing is, if | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
this bill goes through, I will be forced to go down to part-time work | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
so I'm going from a high rate taxpayer to a low rate taxpayer, so | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
how does that help the economy in any way? Let me bring in Linzi and | :43:46. | :43:54. | |
Roslin. Linzi, you are desperate to buy your housing association home, | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
so this bill, if it goes through, will potentially help you? Yes, | :43:59. | :44:07. | |
hopefully. I absolutely love my house and don't want to live | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
anywhere else, I have built my business here, my child goes to | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
school just up the road, I have got great neighbours, it is a really | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
nice area and be, my husband and children are really happy here and | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
don't want to live anywhere else. Is it right that you will get a | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
discount funded by your local councils selling of a higher value, | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
more expensive, apparently empty council house somewhere else in | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
more expensive, apparently empty borough? I don't really know about | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
that. I don't feel that I am owed anything or anything like that, I | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
don't want something for nothing. I worked really hard, we work lots of | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
others, and unfortunately I can't afford to buy a house on the open | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
market, wouldn't be able to afford the deposit and couldn't afford to | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
pay a mortgage, unfortunately, on the full cost of my house at the | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
moment. If I got the discount I would be really grateful and it | :44:57. | :45:07. | |
means I can own a property it is probably the only opportunity we | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
will get to own a property. Rosslyn, is it the same for you? Why do you | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
want to buy yet rather than carry on renting? I think it is more for my | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
future and my children. We have spent a lot of money doing up our | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
own house, we cannot afford to buy on the open market, it would take is | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
a long time to save for a deposit, obviously if pay to stay come since | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
it does affect us and it would be even more out of our reach, we would | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
not be able to afford a deposit at all to buy a house, so we would be | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
grateful for the opportunity to do so. I think Linzi and Roslin should | :45:40. | :45:49. | |
have the opportunity to buy, but question is how you should fund the | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
discount, is it fair that other people do is the option for social | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
housing to fund the discount? The problem we have is that we are not | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
building enough houses of any type and that is what we have to be | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
focused on, not, if you like, reshuffling the deck chairs around. | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
The house price differences between out of London and in London, even if | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
I wanted to buy my flat, which actually I don't, I love the fact | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
that I have a secure tenancy and reasonable rent, but even if I | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
wanted to buy it, the current rate is ?650,000. The other thing that | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
people need to know is that if I was forced to leave my flat because of | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
the pay-to-stay rent, it wouldn't go to a poor person, it would be sold, | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
because part of this is that vacant houses worth over ?350,000, which is | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
pretty well every place in Camden, will have to be sold immediately. So | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
who is going to buy my flat? A wealthy person! Which is some of the | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
criticism of this policy, it will mean that communities are not mixed | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
any more, there will just be areas of very, very rich people, or rather | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
more areas of very rich people across London. It will be a double | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
whammy, the sale of the housing association property and then the | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
sale of a council property to pay for the discount and I think one for | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
one is going to be very hard to achieve, particularly in London. | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
Every party in opposition says, if we get into Government we will build | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
more houses. It doesn't happen, why? To do it you have to be determine | :47:24. | :47:33. | |
and address the issues of money and land and have to build every type of | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
house. I own my own house and I think people should have the | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
opportunity. We have got to build for renters as well. Let me read | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
some messages from people who're affected by this or who have views | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
from around the country. Rachel tweets, where can you go if you | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
can't get an affordable privately rented property or Housing | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
Association, possibly get evicted or go back to your parents. Twitter | :48:01. | :48:14. | |
viewers says, why do people want to buy big houses at a knock down | :48:15. | :48:22. | |
price? If it's something that's available to me, I would be very | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
grateful, I don't feel entitled. Who blames you, if the opportunity was | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
there, you would take it. That's really not the issue, it's about | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
Government policy, not individual's decisions. One more e-mailer says, I | :48:35. | :48:45. | |
work for a housing company in London, the right-to-buy properties | :48:46. | :48:47. | |
that have been sold shouldn't have been sold, it would be a mistake to | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
do it again. 40% in some places in London have been sold. | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
Thank you all very much for your time and Linzi and Roz as well. | :48:58. | :49:07. | |
Adam Johnson has lodged an appeal against his conviction for sexually | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
touching a 15-year-old schoolgirl. It was confirmed ahead of his | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
sentencing at Bradford Crown Court today. We are awaiting that | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
sentence. He admits grooming the schoolgirl and one count of sexual | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
activity involving kissing. He could face up to ten years in prison. He's | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
been told by the judge to say goodbye to his daughter. This | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
morning, his sister posted on social media saying she was too upset to | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
attend court and would instead stay at home with Adam Johnson's daughter | :49:41. | :49:42. | |
and the mother of his child, Stacey. Our reporter Fiona Trott is outside | :49:43. | :49:49. | |
Bradford Crown Court for us now. Tell us what Adam Johnson did? | :49:50. | :50:00. | |
We are hearing from inside the court, the very latest from my | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
correspondent who is in the court at the moment, my colleague, Ed Thomas, | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
he said that the victim's impact statement is being read out in | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
court. He said that the girl said she'd suffered at school, she felt | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
intimidated, the victim's mother's also said she felt powerless that | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
she couldn't protect her own child and at no time has any member of | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
their family sought to make money from the case. That's the latest | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
from inside the court, hearing details of that victim impact | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
statement. Earlier in January this year, Adam Johnson had already been | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
grooming this 15-year-old football fan via social media. In the end, | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
over 800 message had been exchanged between them. They were meeting for | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
a second time in secret in his car, he'd already given her a signed | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
football shirt, and he told her "I've come for my thank you kiss" | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
and the court heard that's when he put his hand inside her trousers. | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
The court heard that this young girl told her father she wanted to kill | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
herself and she confided in him about what had happened. Remember | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
she broke down several times when she was giving evidence here at | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
Bradford Crown Court. This trial, of course, has already raised questions | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
about exactly what Sunderland football club knew. Adam Johnson was | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
suspended when he was arrested but that was lifted after 16 days. He | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
was then able to carry on playing for the club. 28 matches in total. | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
During that time, he was earning ?60,000 a week. Now, after this | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
trial, the Chief Executive of Sunderland Football Club, Margaret | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
Byrne said this: Contrary to what has been suggested, I did not | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
understand that Mr Johnson intended to change his plea. I was astounded | :51:47. | :51:54. | |
when he did plead guilty. As a consequence, Margaret Byrne | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
resigned. She said: I accept Mr Johnson shouldn't have been | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
permitted to play again irrespective of what he was going to plead, | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
health service a serious error of judgment. | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
So that is the latest here from Bradford Crown Court. I'm just | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
checking to see if there are any more developments from inside. I'm | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
hearing from my colleague Ed Thomas that the player had told the, the | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
court was told that Sunderland FC sorry, they were well aware of what | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
he'd done. That is the latest detail we are hearing from inside the court | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
at the moment. Of course, as you know, the judge, Jonathan Rose, is | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
due to hand down sentencing very shortly. | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
Thank you for the moment. Yesterday, the Football Association released a | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
film on child protection on the eve of Adam Johnson's sentencing. It | :52:43. | :52:54. | |
doesn't refer directly to the ex-ex-Sunderland player's case but | :52:55. | :53:03. | |
here is a clip. We have football clubs, they know what they are doing | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
and work with management teams to put safeguards in place, that's what | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
we want. In addition to that, we have to look at those in roles that | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
give them power and influence arrange coaches and managers who | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
pick and choose what is happening and those should include criminal | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
records checks and ensure they have safeguarding training. We have done | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
50,000 checks a year and 35,000 people going through that training. | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
What responsibilities do professional clubs have? In addition | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
to that, they have to make sure all of their staff understand the | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
conduct that is expected of them and they need to monitor that. And | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
obviously if anything comes to light, the deal with that, and if | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
someone is in a role wider than club, to inform ourselves so that we | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
can become involved or the statutory agencies. Are criminal record checks | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
carried out on all players? The law, not football, governs who can and | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
can't have a criminal records check and simply playing, although that | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
might bring a lot of celebrity for some, isn't a role that we can | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
legally make criminal records checks on. | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
Let's speak to Jon Brown from the NSPCC. | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
How concerned are you that there are no criminal records checks? This | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
beggars belief that Adam Johnson was originally suspended and | :54:30. | :54:31. | |
unbelievably that was lifted and he was allowed to play. That | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
contravenes the FA rules and regulations and advice to clubs. | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
What we are concerned about at the NSPCC is to what extent is that | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
happening elsewhere. We don't know but I think it would be unwise to | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
assume that Sunderland is one example alone here. | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
The NSPCC works, I'm told, with the FA monitoring body child protection | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
in sport unit. Is that failing? The child protection in sport unit is an | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
NSPCC body and we have been working with the FA for 15 years now very | :55:04. | :55:11. | |
productively and collaboratively our work with the FA has helped inform a | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
good set of world class set of policies and protections related to | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
safeguarding. Frankly, they are not going to be worth a lot if they are | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
not implemented at club level. That's our concern. That didn't | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
happen in Sunderland. What we need to see is that the club culture is | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
right across the country, whether we are talking about Premier League | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
clubs or a local Sunday league club, that culture is right from the top. | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
There needs to be a zero tolerance approach to anything illegal | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
obviously, but a really positive approach from relation to the | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
protection and welfare of children. That wasn't happening at Sunderland | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
clearly. There are some football supporters and newspaper columnists | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
who don't believe Adam Johnson is a paedophile. What do you say to that? | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
That is someone who has a sexual interest in young children, so that | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
is correct that he's not a paedophile, but he's sexually abused | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
and exploited a child, a schoolgirl. That's had a devastating effect | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
clearly on the victim. We have heard the victim impact statement. It's | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
had a devastating effect. He knew what he was doing was wrong. That's | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
very clear. He's now going to get sentenced and no doubt that will | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
reflect the severity of what he's done. He's now a sex offender and | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
he's going to need to recognise that. He's devastated and ruined his | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
clear and more importantly, he's had a huge devastating impact on a child | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
as well. From your expertise and experience, | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
how do you help teenagers, children sometimes younger than that, try to | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
deal with the experience of being groomed and abused? It's important | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
to make the person understand it's not their fault. Particularly in | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
this situation where a footballer, an international Premier League | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
footballer, they have an iconic status and there are children up and | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
down the country playing football and they look up to these | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
individuals. So when there is the opportunity to meet someone like | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
that, there's a huge power imbalance there so they are made to feel it's | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
their fought. When we work they are pewically with children, it's about | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
helping that child understand that it wasn't their fault -- it's their | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
fault. We teach them that there is light at | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
the end of the tunnel and we let the positive future back in for them. I | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
think the programmes we run have shown to be effective. We just | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
evaluated that and I think they can be enabled to get over what's | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
happened. Prevention is key really and prevention within football clubs | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
and ensuring that the Football Association are really satisfied | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
that their world class policies and procedures are embedded at club | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
level for a process of support, encouragement and audit as well. | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
Thank you very much Jon Brown from the NSPCC. | :58:14. | :58:18. |