24/11/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


24/11/2016

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The NSPCC opens a hotline for victims of sexual abuse

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in football as the FA urges more men to come forward.

:00:20.:00:21.

The former Manchester City and England player David White

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is the latest former professional to go public.

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I salute Andy Wood, Steve Walters and Paul Stewart for waving

:00:26.:00:35.

anonymity in order to reveal their personal tragedies.

:00:36.:00:38.

The family of one of the young men murdered by serial killer

:00:39.:00:41.

Stephen Port tell us they hold the police partly to blame

:00:42.:00:45.

for assuming he'd died of a drug overdose.

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These people that didn't do their job, in our eyes they are partly

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responsible. That is how we feel as a family because they played a part

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in it. The latest figures on violence

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at football matches We'll talk to one fan who's been

:01:03.:01:04.

banned from matches. We're live until 11

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every weekday morning. Could deaths from drugs like ecstasy

:01:15.:01:27.

be reduced if users could get them tested or would that just encourage

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more people to take them? We'll have a special

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report from Switzerland where government-approved testing

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is widespread and there are fewer If you're getting in touch do use

:01:36.:01:37.

the hashtag VictoriaLIVE. If you are texting you will be

:01:38.:01:45.

charged at the standard network rate.

:01:46.:01:47.

Our top story today: A helpline has opened this morning for footballers

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who have been victims of sexual assault.

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It's being run by the NSPCC and has the backing

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Four former players have now gone public to say

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The charity and the FA strongly suspect more people have been

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targeted in the past and are urging others to speak up.

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I knew that I had to tell my story and the truth

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about what happened to me as a youngster.

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I hope the football world are listening to this.

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The painful accounts of careers overshadowed,

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And over the last week, more have come forward

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Steve Walters was Crewe Alexandra's youngest player.

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Last night, David White, former Man City and England player,

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They say they were victims of coach and scout Barry Bennell,

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a paedophile jailed in the late '90s.

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But abuse in football is thought to have been much more widespread.

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The game has that duty of care to explore what did happen,

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why it was allowed to happen and the numbers and to make sure,

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at least, that if there was not that care for those youngsters

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then, that there is now and that's put in place.

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So now a new helpline provided by the NSPCC,

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What we want to do is to change the culture in football.

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We want men and young boys who may have been victims of sexual

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abuse to feel that they can adequately come forward,

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The police are already dealing with complaints in double figures.

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Dan is here now. Where are we up to with the numbers of those that have

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come forward to talk to us, newspapers and Cheshire police? We

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know that the police are dealing with 11 complaints now. The

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professional footballers associations say they have spoken to

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more than ten former players who have made complaints. Four people

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have gone public, waving their rights to anonymity. After Andy

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Woodward spoke to you in the studio last week, we have had complaints

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from Steve Walters, the youngest ever player for Crewe Alexandra, and

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he said he was also abused by Barry Bennell, the coach and scout at that

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time. And David White telling his story to the papers last night, the

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former England and Manchester City player, saying he was subjected to

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abuse at the hands of Barry Bennell. Paul Stewart has given his account

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of abuse at the hands of another coach. These stories are emerging

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after many years. Hence the hotline. Yes, that is what the NSPCC are

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launching today. They are working with the Football Association to

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give a dedicated hotline open 24 hours a day for anyone who may have

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experienced abuse or had suspicions about what was going on in football

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clubs in the 80s, 70s, the 90s. There are experts and former players

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will be able to get the advice they need and they will be able to

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pass on the evidence to the police to help with their investigation

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which seems to be growing and unfolding. Barry Bennell also

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coached Gary speed when he was a young boy. When he was Wales

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manager, he took his own life. Have his family said anything about the

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latest revelations? They have not said anything in the last week. It

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is five years since Gary Speed took his own life and at the inquest this

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connection with Barry Bennell was brought up at that time and there

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were questions about the relationship they had had at the

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start of his career. Barry Bennell admitted that Gary Speed had stayed

:05:48.:05:50.

at his house at that time but his family said there was no evidence to

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suggest that Gary Speed had been a victim and police that he was not

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part of the investigation which resulted in Barry Bennell going to

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prison and there is no reason to think the connection with Barry

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Bennell could have led to Gary's death, but it has been raised again

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as all these stories are coming out. It looks like this investigation

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will grow and grow and we are sure to hear more stories of people who

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have suffered doing football. Thank you. That is the NSPCC hotline. And

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Steve Walters, who came forward to the Guardian this week after hearing

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Andy Woodward's account, will be on this programme tomorrow at 9:15am,

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giving his first television interview. Now the rest of the

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morning's news. Good morning. Ministers have defended gloomy

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independent forecasts for the economy published

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in the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, in the face of fierce

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criticism from some Conservatives. Several prominent backbenchers

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have attacked the Office for Budget Responsibility

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for predicting that leaving the EU will cost Britain

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about ?60 billion over five years. Here's our political

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correspondent Ben Wright: The summer's referendum

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was months ago. But the decision to leave the EU

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will shape politics And the short-term outlook

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is gloomy. The Chancellor headed to Parliament

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to report slower growth and rising A ?60 billion hit to the public

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finances because of Brexit. Our task now is to

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prepare our economy to be and match fit for the transition

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that will follow. The government hasn't decided

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what sort of trade deal it wants to try and strike with the EU

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after we leave and there is huge Some Tory MPs said the numbers

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were far too pessimistic. The OBR are probably

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still quite wrong about 2017. Their borrowing

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forecast far too high. And we will get good access

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to the single market The Chancellor has given

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himself room to borrow more Labour said the government's

:08:06.:08:09.

economic plan had collapsed. After all the sacrifices people have

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made over the last six years, I fear today's statement has

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laid the foundations Beyond Brexit, there

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are other political question What about the government's

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promise to raise the state The Chancellor said the triple lock

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guarantee was safe until 2020, but the costs of an ageing

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population could mean The Autumn Statement had no new cash

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for the NHS or social care and the funding of both

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is a long-term headache But it's the impact of Brexit

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that is going to keep the Chancellor More on what this means

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now from Norman Smith Several pro-Brexit Conservatives are

:08:52.:09:08.

saying this is just a forecast, not a fact. A furious row has broken out

:09:09.:09:14.

over the OBR's assessment of what will happen to the economy, with

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some in the Brexit camp saying it is far, far too gloomy. All the signs

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are that people are still spending, the economy is doing better than

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expected, and this is more of what became known as project fear. The

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Treasury on the other hand is standing by the OBR forecast, which

:09:35.:09:39.

it has to be said is pretty dire, suggesting that debt will reach a

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record level and the deficit is disappearing into never-never land

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and living standards will fall and there will be a rise of unemployment

:09:49.:09:54.

of 100000 and on and on. Now the Treasury are standing by this report

:09:55.:09:58.

but what is striking is the extent to which the Autumn Statement has in

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effect become round two of the Brexit referendum. Thank you.

:10:03.:10:09.

Well, at 11:30am this morning on the BBC News Channel

:10:10.:10:13.

you can put your questions about the Autumn Statement

:10:14.:10:15.

We'll be joined by Mike Spicer from the British Chambers

:10:16.:10:19.

of Commerce, the creator of SavvyWomen and personal finance

:10:20.:10:23.

journalist Sarah Pennells and Hugh Stickland from

:10:24.:10:25.

You can get in touch by text, email or on Twitter using

:10:26.:10:29.

A health trust has apologised after shocking details emerged

:10:30.:10:34.

of a series of failures in maternity care at two hospitals.

:10:35.:10:36.

of Commerce, the creator of SavvyWomen and personal finance

:10:37.:10:42.

An internal review at Royal Oldham and North Manchester General

:10:43.:10:44.

hospitals was only made public after an investigation

:10:45.:10:47.

The report describes one incident where a baby born prematurely

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was left to die alone in a room used for waste disposal.

:10:52.:10:54.

In another case a mother died after staff ignored her symptoms,

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believing instead she had mental health issues.

:10:58.:10:58.

The Pennine Acute Hospital Trust, which runs the hospital,

:10:59.:11:01.

The police watchdog is investigating hundreds of allegations of police

:11:02.:11:11.

failures relating to child sexual abuse cases

:11:12.:11:13.

in England and Wales, according to figures obtained

:11:14.:11:15.

New figures show 27 inquiries have been completed.

:11:16.:11:19.

It could mean disciplinary action for up to 15 officers.

:11:20.:11:24.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission says it continues

:11:25.:11:26.

Martin Schultz says he will not seek re-election in January. He says he

:11:27.:11:47.

will return to politics in his native Germany. It is widely

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expected that he will challenge Angela Merkel in next year's general

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election. His successor as European Parliament President next will be

:11:55.:12:00.

appointed next year. The use of online dating sites

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and apps has been associated with hundreds of cases of sexual

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assault each year, according The warning comes after Stephen Port

:12:08.:12:10.

was found guilty of murdering four The 41-year-old poisoned his victims

:12:11.:12:14.

at his flat using Scotland Yard is now reviewing

:12:15.:12:17.

a further 58 unexplained deaths There has also been a warning for

:12:18.:12:32.

people to be more vigilant when meeting people online.

:12:33.:12:34.

And we'll have more on that in an exclusive report,

:12:35.:12:37.

Researchers say predatory bacteria, which eat others of their kind,

:12:38.:12:42.

could be a new weapon in the fight against superbugs.

:12:43.:12:45.

The studies on animals, acted like a living antibiotic

:12:46.:12:47.

to help clear an otherwise lethal infection, and suggested

:12:48.:12:49.

Experts say the approach was unusual but should not be overlooked,

:12:50.:12:53.

as more levels of bacteria become resistant to drugs.

:12:54.:12:56.

Nigel Farage has been celebrating at a party at the Ritz Hotel

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He was presented with a plate of Ferrero Rocher chocolates

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in reference to Donald Trump's suggestion that he would do

:13:06.:13:07.

a great job as Britain's ambassador to the US.

:13:08.:13:14.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 9:30am.

:13:15.:13:18.

Thank you. Talking about dating apps now and we will bring you a special

:13:19.:13:30.

film soon. Dating apps set you up for abuse because people think it is

:13:31.:13:34.

opaque to belittle you. I would never use a dating apps and nor

:13:35.:13:37.

should my gay friends because there are too many homophobic people out

:13:38.:13:39.

there. Do get in touch with us

:13:40.:13:43.

throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:13:44.:13:45.

and if you text, you will be charged Three British size in the Champions

:13:46.:13:49.

League. How did they do? Yes, in short, Manchester City

:13:50.:14:03.

and Arsenal are through to the last A 1-1 draw was enough for them

:14:04.:14:06.

at Borussia Muchengladbach. And it means they've

:14:07.:14:11.

reached the knockout stages of the Champions League

:14:12.:14:13.

for the fourth consecutive season. They had to come from behind too,

:14:14.:14:15.

David Silva pounced on a cross just before the break to earn

:14:16.:14:19.

Pep Guardiola's men a point, and secure second place in Group C,

:14:20.:14:21.

with a game to spare. We have a qualification in the

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packet until February and now we can focus finally on just one

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competition, the Premier League. Celtic didn't favour so well

:14:30.:14:34.

in that group, though. They lost 2-0 to Barcelona at

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Celtic Park. Lionel

:14:40.:14:41.

Messi with both goals. Considering they lost 7-0 to Barca

:14:42.:14:42.

last time out, that's But they are out of the competition,

:14:43.:14:45.

and will finish bottom of Group C. Joining City in the last

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16 will be Arsenal. But they might feel disappointed

:14:52.:14:54.

that they couldn't wrap up a win against Paris Saint Germain to give

:14:55.:14:58.

them a better chance of finishing top of the group

:14:59.:15:00.

and a more favourable It was 1-1 at half time,

:15:01.:15:02.

but a stroke of luck for the Gunners saw them go ahead

:15:03.:15:07.

through a Marco Varatti own goal. But they suffered a taste

:15:08.:15:10.

of their own medicine 20 minutes later when Alex Iwobi

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conceded an own goal 2-2 it finished, and with one game

:15:14.:15:15.

left to play, Arsenal They begin that third

:15:16.:15:21.

Test in the early hours of Saturday morning,

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having drawn the first, and having lost and been

:15:32.:15:34.

outplayed in the second. They've been in the practice nets

:15:35.:15:36.

today, and we're expecting a few Zaffa Ansari missed today's training

:15:37.:15:39.

session with a back spasm Big-hitting wicketkeeper Jos Butler

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looks likely to return - his first Test in 13 months -

:15:44.:15:46.

to replace struggling Ben Duckett, who's made just 18 runs

:15:47.:15:49.

in his last three innings. Stuart Broad is still dealing

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with his foot injury so is likely to be replaced by Chris

:15:53.:15:55.

Woakes who's been taking a look at the wicket they'll be

:15:56.:15:59.

playing on in Mohali. With it being cooler in the

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mornings, hopefully it might swing a bit, but I suppose that's probably

:16:10.:16:13.

the most we can expect and ask for. The ends look like they've been

:16:14.:16:16.

trimmed a bit more than the middle of the pitch so we expect it to spin

:16:17.:16:20.

at some point, whether that'll be day one, not sure but it will at

:16:21.:16:22.

some point. The family of a young man murdered

:16:23.:16:26.

by the serial killer, Stephen Port, have told us they hold the police

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partly to blame. Port was convicted of four murders

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yesterday after a jury heard he'd targeted gay men on dating websites,

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before killing them with lethal 17 officers are being investigated

:16:40.:16:42.

over their handling of the case and Scotland Yard has

:16:43.:16:50.

admitted it missed "potential opportunities" during

:16:51.:16:53.

the investigation into their deaths. Dan Clark-Neal, a former

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Metropolitan Police Detective, Dan, some of the failings appear

:16:57.:16:59.

to be pretty shocking. Going back to the very beginning,

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Port himself called police to say that a young man,

:17:08.:17:15.

now known to be Anthony Walgate, was unconscious outside the communal

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entrance to his flat. Days later he admitted that Anthony

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had died in his flat and that he'd moved the body outside through fear

:17:26.:17:30.

of being suspected of killing him. The issue is two more murders were

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committed within the time that he was on police bail so he was not

:17:45.:17:48.

linked to these deaths quick enough by the Police Service. Then you can

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look at the third death of Daniel Whitworth, a suicide note was found

:17:55.:17:58.

in his possession which turned out to be written by Stephen Port and,

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in that note, which is alarm bells straightaway, Joe blogs off the

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street could pick this up, he says, please don't blame the guy I was

:18:09.:18:12.

with last night, it had nothing to do with him. That is the first

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person you would go and find? Yes, who was that person. They didn't

:18:18.:18:20.

check the hand writing on the note, didn't show that to the relatives of

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Daniel Whitworth and the note was not examined for forensic evidence.

:18:27.:18:30.

Port's DNA was found on that note eventually. Further to that, they've

:18:31.:18:37.

been told by members of the families of some of the victims, the media

:18:38.:18:44.

and also LGBT charity that these cases looked like they were linked

:18:45.:18:47.

but still the police refused to link them. Ultimately Jack Taylor was

:18:48.:18:53.

murdered when Port came out of prison having served four months for

:18:54.:18:56.

perverting the course of justice and the question is, why was Jack Taylor

:18:57.:19:02.

allowed to be in that position to meet Stephen Port because the

:19:03.:19:05.

murders were linked. Extraordinary. The police have referred

:19:06.:19:09.

themselveses to the IPCC, the Police Watchdog, over the way they handled

:19:10.:19:12.

the case. What more can you tell us of that? 17 officers under

:19:13.:19:16.

investigation, seven may lose their jobs if they are proven to be guilty

:19:17.:19:23.

of gross misconduct. The question is, was there any homophobia

:19:24.:19:27.

attached to the mistakes that police made, did they overlook things due

:19:28.:19:31.

to homophobia within the service, that's one thing the IPCC are

:19:32.:19:35.

looking at. The issue is, the cases should have been linked sooner but

:19:36.:19:43.

they were not. You have got to know Jack Taylor's family, Stephen Port's

:19:44.:19:50.

family pretty well. They live close to me, they are a close-knit family

:19:51.:19:53.

and have clearly been shatter bid what's happened to them with the

:19:54.:19:57.

loss of Jack. I went and met them at their home address recently in

:19:58.:19:59.

Dagenham. Just fun to be around.

:20:00.:20:03.

He'd do anything for anybody. Always laughing.

:20:04.:20:10.

Always laughing and joking. He was like an older brother,

:20:11.:20:12.

not a younger brother. Yeah, he looked after us as much

:20:13.:20:15.

as we looked after him, he did look I mean, we try and smile.

:20:16.:20:18.

Best we can. But then you find yourself

:20:19.:20:30.

halfway through doing How Jack would have been,

:20:31.:20:33.

what Jack would have said. And that's the bit that rips us

:20:34.:20:40.

to pieces, don't it? Knowing my kids are going to grow up

:20:41.:20:44.

not even knowing their uncle, apart from what I tell

:20:45.:20:49.

them and what they see, they're not going to know him,

:20:50.:20:51.

they're not going to see him. Am I right in thinking that Jack had

:20:52.:20:54.

been out on the Saturday And he came back home

:20:55.:21:17.

and your dad even saw him back So the last thing your mum and dad

:21:18.:21:23.

knew was that Jack was home, but then on the following morning,

:21:24.:21:30.

he wasn't in his room and it was then Monday,

:21:31.:21:34.

late in the day on Monday, that you were told that

:21:35.:21:36.

Jack had been found. I came out of college

:21:37.:21:38.

and mum had called me. We had decided we would start making

:21:39.:21:42.

some calls, because obviously, And then, obviously,

:21:43.:21:50.

I'm still on the phone to my mum when the police turned up.

:21:51.:22:02.

And initially I heard the police ask And then just heard mum I kind

:22:03.:22:12.

of scream and I knew We were just told that Jack

:22:13.:22:18.

was found up against And that he'd died of taking

:22:19.:22:23.

a drug overdose. So, we knew instantly,

:22:24.:22:29.

there was so much more to this. We just sat down and knew

:22:30.:22:36.

that we had to look into it. We knew we had to ask

:22:37.:22:39.

some questions. We, kind of went

:22:40.:22:50.

through Jack's Facebook, To see if they had

:22:51.:22:53.

seen him, spoke to him. We then went on the internet to find

:22:54.:22:57.

out if there was any similar kind And that's when we found

:22:58.:23:03.

that there was other people that had been found in very similar

:23:04.:23:11.

situations in the same area. The stories you've found one

:23:12.:23:14.

in relation to Anthony Walgate... ..Gabriel Kovari,

:23:15.:23:16.

and Daniel Whitworth? And they all died in similar

:23:17.:23:19.

circumstances to Jack over the course of a few months

:23:20.:23:23.

in the summer of 2014. We addressed the police

:23:24.:23:29.

with this, didn't we? We questioned it two or

:23:30.:23:32.

three times. The same as we did with,

:23:33.:23:35.

could Jack have been put there? Did they think Jack was

:23:36.:23:41.

put there? Purely because we knew he wouldn't

:23:42.:23:43.

have gone and sat there. They was just going to settle it as,

:23:44.:23:46.

Jack had taken an overdose. It was seen as gay drugged men

:23:47.:23:54.

in respect of, they'd just sat there, gone over there

:23:55.:23:59.

for whatever they have, done an overdose and that's that,

:24:00.:24:01.

like, as if it's normal. All these bodies appearing

:24:02.:24:06.

is not normal, is it? We should have been grieving,

:24:07.:24:13.

we shouldn't have been Yeah, we shouldn't have had to go

:24:14.:24:20.

through all what we did, to prove that our brother didn't sit

:24:21.:24:28.

there and do that. That should have been

:24:29.:24:37.

somebody finding that out. It has to be unfortunately,

:24:38.:24:54.

because much as we wanted to get to the bottom

:24:55.:25:03.

of what had happened to Jack, we obviously didn't

:25:04.:25:08.

want that to be true. That somebody has done

:25:09.:25:13.

something to him. So, your perseverance, you feel,

:25:14.:25:17.

led to the deaths being linked Yeah, we wasn't going

:25:18.:25:20.

to stop, was we? We was never going to stop,

:25:21.:25:26.

we had a pact. We'd sit up on the phone till five

:25:27.:25:29.

o'clock in the morning, We just knew we wasn't

:25:30.:25:32.

going to stop, we wasn't satisfied with them saying he took

:25:33.:25:36.

an overdose, there was no way. He had to be brought

:25:37.:25:44.

back up in December. And it was mixed emotion,

:25:45.:25:49.

weren't it? It was obviously heartbreaking

:25:50.:25:51.

to know that that Because, we, kind of,

:25:52.:25:53.

felt Jack's gone through enough, we've gone through enough

:25:54.:25:57.

at that point. But then to know if certain

:25:58.:26:00.

things had been done, what was supposed to have been done,

:26:01.:26:04.

when Jack had died, they wouldn't have needed

:26:05.:26:06.

to disturb him like that. I mean, it's hard enough from mum

:26:07.:26:09.

and dad's point of view. Because nobody, obviously,

:26:10.:26:16.

wants to lose a child But then to be told they've got

:26:17.:26:21.

to bring their child back up is obviously another

:26:22.:26:27.

part of the nightmare. How's it been for you,

:26:28.:26:39.

going through the experience It's just awful, it's

:26:40.:26:43.

like a nightmare. It's just like everything we thought

:26:44.:26:52.

is coming out in the court. Everything we thought had happened,

:26:53.:26:55.

we've been told that did happen. You know, when you're told, no,

:26:56.:27:01.

that's not the case, it's not the case, it's not

:27:02.:27:04.

the case, and then you sit in a court and hear things come out

:27:05.:27:08.

that you had asked so long It just highlights how much

:27:09.:27:13.

we has to do. To get these answers to these

:27:14.:27:25.

questions and for it to actually be He used to come in

:27:26.:27:29.

here on the weekends. He used to come out here

:27:30.:27:50.

all the time. What did it mean to Jack to have

:27:51.:27:52.

this space within the house? To come in here on the weekends and,

:27:53.:27:56.

like, just be himself We sit out there, having a drink out

:27:57.:28:04.

there and we all come in here, You know, they always point out

:28:05.:28:11.

Jack. What's your favourite

:28:12.:28:18.

memory, Jeanette? What a great, amazing

:28:19.:28:29.

person he was. It must have been tough for you,

:28:30.:28:34.

as a fan, see the CCTV footage of almost Jack's final

:28:35.:29:39.

moments with Stephen Port, So, yeah,

:29:40.:29:42.

really hard. How do you feel about Stephen

:29:43.:29:57.

Port, now? He's took things a way that

:29:58.:30:07.

can never be replaced. And it's very hard sitting in a room

:30:08.:30:32.

with somebody that's done that. You didn't get

:30:33.:30:38.

an apology? Stephen Port might have

:30:39.:30:47.

took Jack's life so, obviously, he's responsible

:30:48.:30:53.

for Jack's death, that these people that didn't do their job in our eyes

:30:54.:30:57.

are just as responsible. That's how we feel as a family,

:30:58.:31:07.

because they played a part in it, If they'd done what they were

:31:08.:31:10.

supposed to have done with the other poor boys, it's an awful way to say

:31:11.:31:16.

it, but some of their lives You, as a family, when do you think

:31:17.:31:20.

the nightmare will end, There's a saying that

:31:21.:31:31.

things get easier I don't think there'll ever be

:31:32.:31:41.

an easy side to this. I think we've lost touch

:31:42.:31:56.

with what normal means. I don't think any of us

:31:57.:32:02.

understands what normal means, If you're not thinking

:32:03.:32:04.

about Jack not being here, And why they took him

:32:05.:32:10.

and how they took him. What could have been done

:32:11.:32:18.

to prevent him from being taken. It's a nightmare that

:32:19.:32:26.

just doesn't stop. In a statement released

:32:27.:32:42.

after the verdict, Commander Stuart Cundy

:32:43.:32:44.

of the Metropolitan Police said, "The IPCC investigation is ongoing

:32:45.:32:47.

and I can't pre-empt its findings but the evidence heard at the trial

:32:48.:32:50.

did identify potentially missed Now we have the verdict I am

:32:51.:32:53.

personally writing to each of the families of the four young

:32:54.:32:59.

men who died as well as Daniel Whitworth's partner

:33:00.:33:02.

to express our sincere condolences. The letters apologise to them

:33:03.:33:06.

for those missed opportunities." And we'll bring you more

:33:07.:33:10.

on this story after 10am. We will look in detail at the

:33:11.:33:25.

government's spending plans and what they mean for you.

:33:26.:33:29.

Should people who use recreational drugs like ecstacy be allowed

:33:30.:33:31.

to get them safety-tested by government-approved labs?

:33:32.:33:33.

One leading police officer thinks so.

:33:34.:33:34.

After years of cracking down on football violence,

:33:35.:33:43.

Home Office figures due out this morning will reveal if police

:33:44.:33:45.

and clubs are continuing to get on top of the problem.

:33:46.:33:48.

Certainly the past few years have seen a decline in the number

:33:49.:33:51.

of incidents leading to banning orders, yet despite this some

:33:52.:33:53.

matches are still marred by violent clashes between fans.

:33:54.:33:55.

Amanda Jacks is a caseworker at the Football Supporters Federation.

:33:56.:33:58.

Dougie Brimson is an author who has written about the culture

:33:59.:34:01.

of football hooliganism and he's also the writer of the film

:34:02.:34:05.

Green Street about football hooliganism in the UK.

:34:06.:34:08.

In Newcastle is Superintendent Sarah Pitt from Northumbria Police.

:34:09.:34:11.

Also here is Cal, who was given a three-year football banning order.

:34:12.:34:18.

What was it for? It was an assault. Right. And you are in the second

:34:19.:34:37.

year of this ban? Yes. It was an away game and I said I wasn't going

:34:38.:34:41.

to drink that day. We got to the town and it was all going fine.

:34:42.:34:45.

After the game I party said they were going to the pub after the

:34:46.:34:50.

game, would you like to come? I didn't want to go back by myself.

:34:51.:35:00.

After leaving there, we went to another place and we caught the

:35:01.:35:04.

train home. During that journey home there was an altercation with the

:35:05.:35:09.

train inspector. I didn't know this at the time, but somebody who bought

:35:10.:35:16.

the tickets for the train bought a child's ticket and gave it to me. At

:35:17.:35:21.

the time I didn't know. When the inspector came back he wanted to see

:35:22.:35:25.

my ticket and I said it was in the other carriage. He went off there

:35:26.:35:30.

and he came back. Someone from my party went after him. I said what is

:35:31.:35:38.

the matter? They have taken the Railcard because of the child's

:35:39.:35:44.

ticket. How did it end up in assault? I went to get the Railcard

:35:45.:35:47.

and I verbally assaulted the train inspector and I put my hands up and

:35:48.:35:54.

I shouldn't have let it happen. Said it was verbal abuse and not physical

:35:55.:35:59.

assault? Because it was the last train going back to where I am from,

:36:00.:36:04.

the police took me off the train and I was panicking. If they said I was

:36:05.:36:10.

free to go, how could I get back? It was a long distance from where I

:36:11.:36:17.

lived. I said what do I do? I was about to walk off and they grabbed

:36:18.:36:21.

me and in the struggle, it was totally accidental because I was

:36:22.:36:25.

trying to push my arms back. I understand but in the end you got a

:36:26.:36:28.

football banning order because you had been at a football match hours

:36:29.:36:35.

earlier 70 miles away? Yet. Did you think that was fair? No. When they

:36:36.:36:40.

arrested me, they didn't know I was a football supporter until the day

:36:41.:36:44.

after. Pursuing that, they threw the ban at me because I had the ticket

:36:45.:36:49.

on me. What do you think of that, Amanda? It is quite typical. You can

:36:50.:36:55.

have a football banning order if you have been arrested after an offence

:36:56.:36:59.

24 hours either side of the match. 70 miles away from the game, it made

:37:00.:37:03.

no difference. What the magistrate should have done on considering the

:37:04.:37:07.

police's application would be to judge whether it would prevent

:37:08.:37:11.

problems at football matches rather than problems on trains. The

:37:12.:37:15.

districts do apply that test but many more don't. Whilst there are

:37:16.:37:23.

undoubtedly people with football banning orders for affray, many more

:37:24.:37:28.

have banning orders for non-violent offences, sometimes because they are

:37:29.:37:31.

not represented in court and sometimes because the magistrates

:37:32.:37:34.

don't apply the test they should apply. But of course there are

:37:35.:37:38.

violent thugs that are subject to football banning orders and you

:37:39.:37:41.

would say that is correct? Of course. You are involved in football

:37:42.:37:45.

hooliganism when you were younger and you have written about it. How

:37:46.:37:50.

has it changed? Hooliganism is a catch-all term and that is one of

:37:51.:37:55.

the problems. This would come under hooliganism. It depends on people's

:37:56.:38:04.

perceptions. If somebody is abusive towards you and you are not involved

:38:05.:38:09.

in that culture, he is a hooligan as far as you are concerned, but it

:38:10.:38:12.

encompasses everything from verbal to physical abuse. Hooliganism as a

:38:13.:38:23.

culture evolves because of law and order and the way football has gone.

:38:24.:38:28.

We have seen changes in football, the evolution of the Premier League,

:38:29.:38:34.

and hooliganism and violence inside football ground has nearly been

:38:35.:38:37.

fully eradicated now. But the culture which allows that kind of

:38:38.:38:42.

anger, abuse, hatred, intimidation and violence, which allows it to

:38:43.:38:48.

exist, it has continued unfettered. As we have seen at the London

:38:49.:38:52.

Stadium this season and that other grounds across the UK, the threat of

:38:53.:39:00.

violence continues to exist. Tonight Manchester United are playing the

:39:01.:39:04.

final in the Europa League and the Greater Manchester Police have

:39:05.:39:06.

already said the game will be accompanied by one of the biggest

:39:07.:39:09.

anti-hooligan operations they have ever put in place. You did it when

:39:10.:39:16.

you were younger. What motivates grown men, sometimes professionals

:39:17.:39:19.

in decent jobs, sometimes with kids, to get into a fight with opposing

:39:20.:39:24.

football supporters? When I was involved in it, I was in the

:39:25.:39:31.

military. How is that relevant? I was a professional, in stable

:39:32.:39:34.

employment. Doing a proper job. So what was motivating you? It is a

:39:35.:39:43.

culture thing. It is like gang warfare, like being in a little

:39:44.:39:46.

group of lads, going round the country watching football, often

:39:47.:39:54.

involved... It is not just about violence. This is what people don't

:39:55.:39:57.

understand. It is about banter, having a laugh, having fun, going in

:39:58.:40:02.

and getting away from somewhere unscathed and undetected. It is like

:40:03.:40:07.

miniature warfare, if you like. Like a game of chess involving rival fans

:40:08.:40:13.

and the police. But at the end of it, it is about fun and it is

:40:14.:40:19.

exciting. It is an adrenaline rush. Let's bring in the superintendent

:40:20.:40:22.

from Northumbria Police. Thank you for your time. I haven't got the

:40:23.:40:26.

figures yet and we are waiting for them from the Home Office and I

:40:27.:40:29.

don't know if they have gone up or down. How do you think the police

:40:30.:40:33.

have dealt with football violence over the years? How has your

:40:34.:40:38.

approach changed? Particularly in the Northumbria force area,

:40:39.:40:40.

particularly from 2013 we had significant violence derby match

:40:41.:40:46.

between Newcastle and Sunderland, completely changed our approach and

:40:47.:40:51.

very much now engage with fans, get them involved in the planning of

:40:52.:40:56.

football matches, so they are involved in the way that we police

:40:57.:41:01.

events. Sorry. I have just got the figures now. For the past year up

:41:02.:41:06.

until August 2016, the number of banning orders being handed out has

:41:07.:41:09.

declined again for the fourth year in a row. Just over 2000, a

:41:10.:41:14.

reduction of 4%, but the number of arrests is up by 1%, about 1900

:41:15.:41:22.

arrests, just 22 more than the previous season. I think we have got

:41:23.:41:26.

to understand that banning orders are part of a whole range of

:41:27.:41:32.

guidance and action that we can take in and around football. It is one

:41:33.:41:38.

option that we can utilise that isn't used in every arrest. We take

:41:39.:41:42.

each individual case on its merits to put it in front of the court. Do

:41:43.:41:46.

you think it is fair that someone can be involved in an altercation

:41:47.:41:50.

with a train conductor at the next day the police find out they were at

:41:51.:41:54.

a football match and then they are subject to a football banning order?

:41:55.:41:59.

I find it difficult to comment on that because I don't know the exact

:42:00.:42:03.

circumstances around that offence itself. Does it sound fair to you?

:42:04.:42:15.

It doesn't. You are at the football stadium which got media attention

:42:16.:42:19.

when inside people were chucking stuff. I don't think there was hand

:42:20.:42:22.

to hand combat but you could correct me on that. Is that stuff going on

:42:23.:42:26.

at the Premier League ground but it doesn't get the same attention

:42:27.:42:30.

because that was a brand-new stadium and there was attention on it? I

:42:31.:42:35.

think football reflect society and in society sadly there is still

:42:36.:42:39.

violence and disorder. It is certainly not widespread.

:42:40.:42:42.

Undoubtedly there will be some games where there are some incidents, but

:42:43.:42:45.

the level of those incidents is generally quite low. Handbags and

:42:46.:42:51.

posturing. I have seen it myself. You get a group of young men on one

:42:52.:42:55.

side of the road and the police on the other and another group of young

:42:56.:42:59.

men. Because there is a nice line of police in the middle, they use it as

:43:00.:43:03.

an example to jump up and down and act stupidly. In the main, football

:43:04.:43:08.

is an incredibly safe game. I don't have children but I have no

:43:09.:43:11.

hesitation in taking my nieces and nephews to the vast majority of

:43:12.:43:14.

football matches played in this country. Same here. I do have

:43:15.:43:18.

children and they go to various grounds. West Ham. They do. Do you

:43:19.:43:26.

regret what you got involved in and the impact this banning order has

:43:27.:43:31.

had on you? You find it tough, don't you? The moment they said I had got

:43:32.:43:35.

a banning order, that was it. It was all downhill from there. In what

:43:36.:43:40.

respect? They put so many restrictions on you. Even though it

:43:41.:43:45.

wasn't football violence, they decided to say, your town centre,

:43:46.:43:49.

you are banned from that of a four hours before and after a game. If

:43:50.:43:53.

someone says do I want to come out you have got to say you can't. I

:43:54.:44:00.

can't go here or here. But the alternative was a jail sentence, I

:44:01.:44:03.

understand. It is preferable to that. It was. It would have been

:44:04.:44:09.

nice to have a chance not to get the jail sentence. When they said take

:44:10.:44:14.

it or you are going to jail, it was... That was advice from your

:44:15.:44:21.

solicitor? Records said you have got to bargain with us by accepting a

:44:22.:44:25.

banning order or you are going to prison. -- the courts said. Thank

:44:26.:44:29.

you for coming in. Coming up: After Andy Woodward

:44:30.:44:36.

revealed his years of abuse at the hands of his

:44:37.:44:39.

coach on our programme, a dedicated hotline for footballers

:44:40.:44:46.

who have been victims of sexual assault has been

:44:47.:44:49.

opened by the NSPCC. We'll be speaking to them

:44:50.:44:50.

just after 10am. Should people who use recreational

:44:51.:44:52.

drugs like ecstacy be allowed to get them safety-tested

:44:53.:44:56.

by government-approved labs? Those in favour say the practice

:44:57.:44:58.

would reduce deaths. Others believe it would simply

:44:59.:45:00.

encourage more use. Now one of the country's leading

:45:01.:45:03.

police officers, who specialises in drug prevention, has

:45:04.:45:06.

told us the approach It's already being tried

:45:07.:45:08.

in Switzerland where drug deaths Newsbeat's Jim Connolly has

:45:09.:45:11.

this special report. While when you think Fabric, it's

:45:12.:45:18.

probably not this but in September, the club closed after two

:45:19.:45:22.

18-year-olds, Ryan Browne and Jack Crossley, died

:45:23.:45:25.

after taking drugs inside. The club's owners have just found

:45:26.:45:29.

out they've got their licence back, When it was closed,

:45:30.:45:33.

we did a special, right from the heart of the club,

:45:34.:45:39.

all about the future of clubbing. The subject of drug

:45:40.:45:42.

testing kept coming up. How seriously do you feel the police

:45:43.:45:44.

and the council are Right now, they're not taking

:45:45.:45:46.

them serious enough. The tests show that

:45:47.:45:51.

it is improvement. Like, gosh, where they are doing

:45:52.:45:57.

the testing in Zurich, there hasn't been a death in seven

:45:58.:45:59.

years since they've So, that's where we're going,

:46:00.:46:01.

Switzerland. As mentioned, it has a very

:46:02.:46:05.

different, more relaxed approach, For example, ecstasy

:46:06.:46:07.

is illegal in the Swiss law, but it's not seen as a hard-drug,

:46:08.:46:12.

like it is here. So, let's look at the figures.

:46:13.:46:15.

Relatively speaking, the UK has more than twice as many

:46:16.:46:17.

drug deaths as Switzerland. So, it's a Wednesday

:46:18.:46:24.

in Bern Switzerland. Probably not what you're thinking

:46:25.:46:26.

when you're thinking big nights out in Europe but people

:46:27.:46:30.

here are getting ready for a Friday, They're going to be dropping drugs

:46:31.:46:32.

off in this anonymous The only reason you'd know

:46:33.:46:36.

what it is, is this Nick is one of the councillors

:46:37.:46:43.

who runs the centre. This guy is the first

:46:44.:46:47.

to drop off his drugs and he will get his results

:46:48.:46:49.

on Friday afternoon. A short counselling session

:46:50.:46:51.

is compulsory if you How does it feel talking

:46:52.:46:53.

about your drug use? No, not that much because everybody

:46:54.:46:58.

talks about that. So, everyone knows drugs and knows

:46:59.:47:02.

how it is to be on drugs, Nick can't handle the drugs

:47:03.:47:06.

being dropped off. What do you think

:47:07.:47:12.

you've dropped off? You think you dropped

:47:13.:47:15.

off an ecstasy tablet? So that I know that I don't take

:47:16.:47:18.

anything that isn't good Ecstasy isn't good,

:47:19.:47:31.

because it's a drug, At least there is not something that

:47:32.:47:35.

shouldn't be in MDMA. Will you feel safer,

:47:36.:47:40.

because of that drug being tested? As long as I know that it's ecstasy

:47:41.:47:44.

and not something different, Because I already make the risk

:47:45.:47:52.

that it could doing me 13 other people used

:47:53.:47:58.

the service tonight. We came back at the end to see

:47:59.:48:08.

what was handed in. Excellent, we look forward

:48:09.:48:11.

to seeing it in the morning. It's Thursday and we've come to meet

:48:12.:48:26.

Hans, who runs this drug-testing lab Hi, Hans, nice to meet you.

:48:27.:48:29.

Hi. It tests anything from stuff you can

:48:30.:48:33.

buy in your pharmacy, The testing is being

:48:34.:48:36.

done today by Fabian. This is the pill we saw being handed

:48:37.:48:41.

in last night. And now I'm going

:48:42.:48:44.

to grind it in here. That's just to make it easier

:48:45.:48:49.

to dissolve, is it? After turning the pill

:48:50.:48:52.

into a powder, it's weighed, mixed with the solvent and put

:48:53.:48:57.

in a glass tube ready to run through a liquid

:48:58.:49:00.

chromatography machine. That will give us a reading

:49:01.:49:02.

which Fabian can use to work out exactly what was in our pill and how

:49:03.:49:05.

strong it is. While we wait for our results,

:49:06.:49:09.

we had a chat with Hans. Some people would say you're

:49:10.:49:12.

encouraging drug use, by giving people results

:49:13.:49:15.

about what's in their drugs. Those people that show up

:49:16.:49:19.

in our facilities, they already And with our programme,

:49:20.:49:22.

we have here, I say, if we can just prevent one person

:49:23.:49:33.

being brought to the emergency room of the hospital,

:49:34.:49:38.

it's worth all the cost. In the UK, we've seen a real spike

:49:39.:49:43.

in drug deaths connected to ecstasy. Just last year,

:49:44.:49:51.

there were 57 deaths. In Switzerland, how many drug deaths

:49:52.:49:56.

have you seen links to ecstasy? I have no information for this

:49:57.:50:00.

in the last year that somebody died From your knowledge,

:50:01.:50:04.

you can't think of any deaths You're going to get the results,

:50:05.:50:10.

what have we found? Do we know how strong

:50:11.:50:19.

that tablet was? And that is a very,

:50:20.:50:25.

very strong amount? Yeah, we give a warning

:50:26.:50:45.

when it's over 120 million You better ask that question

:50:46.:50:49.

to my boss. Hans, tell me, we've just seen

:50:50.:50:58.

a result there that doubled the amount you normally see

:50:59.:51:00.

for a warning. Typically, if you took 60-80

:51:01.:51:02.

milligrams, you would experience How dangerous is that

:51:03.:51:07.

pill, potentially? With one to 1.3 mg per

:51:08.:51:12.

kilogram body weight, In this case, if you take a pill

:51:13.:51:18.

like that and you have a body weight, a young girl of about 50

:51:19.:51:25.

kilograms, you are in We're just back from the lab,

:51:26.:51:28.

we've got the printout of the pill that we actually saw

:51:29.:51:35.

getting tested down there. They don't give this to the client,

:51:36.:51:39.

they tell them the information because they don't want this

:51:40.:51:41.

becoming an advert We've got a readout here of a 200 mg

:51:42.:51:43.

of MDMA in that one tablet. If you bear in mind 60-80 mg to feel

:51:44.:51:51.

a significant high, what we've got It's Friday afternoon and we've met

:51:52.:51:54.

up with Nick again, we met He's now on stand-by for people

:51:55.:52:01.

to call him and get the results. What was that conversation

:52:02.:52:09.

you were having? I told him it was a

:52:10.:52:18.

very high dose pill. Are you worried about his safety

:52:19.:52:21.

because that's such a strong pill? It's just a very high dose,

:52:22.:52:24.

it's not something different in it You just have to take a little part

:52:25.:52:30.

of this pill, not the whole pill at the same time

:52:31.:52:36.

or at the same night. This is Zurich, this

:52:37.:52:45.

is the heart of Swiss clubbing. And this is a different

:52:46.:52:50.

type of club. This is called High and they've got

:52:51.:52:52.

a very open policy, really, Just over there, they've

:52:53.:52:55.

done open drug testing, so people can come along,

:52:56.:53:00.

drop off samples, get And then you'd generally got quite

:53:01.:53:02.

an open, relaxed Let's head inside and have a chat

:53:03.:53:06.

with the owner. I really think it's very good

:53:07.:53:09.

for the people that they know, if they take something,

:53:10.:53:13.

that they take good stuff or if it's very strong,

:53:14.:53:17.

that they don't take too much. Do you think by having

:53:18.:53:21.

what by British standards are very open drug policies,

:53:22.:53:23.

the drug checking, that by doing that, they're taking

:53:24.:53:27.

deadly substances and... But you could say in ecstasy tablet

:53:28.:53:30.

could kill you. If it's too heavy,

:53:31.:53:35.

of course. But, if you know this,

:53:36.:53:37.

it's not deadly any more. For you, this is about giving

:53:38.:53:40.

people information? But what do people heading clubbing

:53:41.:53:45.

in the area think? When you have the possibility to use

:53:46.:53:57.

the service, so you know And I think it's a better feeling

:53:58.:53:59.

when you know what you take. I have one strict other website

:54:00.:54:05.

where you can, like, if you buy If there's any dangerous drugs

:54:06.:54:09.

around, they warn you it. I think it's a good cause,

:54:10.:54:18.

I guess. It's your decision

:54:19.:54:21.

if you take drugs. I think it's more safe if you take

:54:22.:54:27.

drugs that are tested. Zurich has a collection of people

:54:28.:54:32.

who represent the city's nightlife. How do places like Burn and Zurich

:54:33.:54:35.

treat recreational drug use when it comes to things like harm

:54:36.:54:42.

reduction and drug testing Drug testing is something integrated

:54:43.:54:45.

in the whole approach. We start with a website

:54:46.:54:50.

with information. Working together with the bar

:54:51.:54:55.

and club commission here here, we are creating

:54:56.:55:02.

a safer clubbing label. We are working together

:55:03.:55:05.

with the hospital and ambulances. We think this is really important

:55:06.:55:12.

to work together with the aim to make nightlife more pleasurable,

:55:13.:55:18.

more healthy than it can be Why have you come to get it tested,

:55:19.:55:21.

what reassurance will that give you? As long as I know it is ecstasy

:55:22.:55:47.

as not something different. So, what are your initial reactions,

:55:48.:55:53.

having watched that? We, of course, are very concerned

:55:54.:55:56.

about keeping people safe, So, for me, some form of testing may

:55:57.:55:59.

well be a really useful And I know it's been tried out

:56:00.:56:05.

in a couple of sites and festivals in the UK, in conjunction

:56:06.:56:10.

with local police forces. But we're not in the position

:56:11.:56:12.

where we can endorse So, this guy, here,

:56:13.:56:15.

who finished the piece off, one of the nightmares for Zurich,

:56:16.:56:19.

he talks about working together. Do you think that really

:56:20.:56:23.

that is happening in the UK, because we are struggling to get

:56:24.:56:26.

the Home Office to even sit down We are in plenty of discussions

:56:27.:56:33.

and we find it very helpful in terms And we've had some discussions

:56:34.:56:37.

about festivals as well, What I'm going to do

:56:38.:56:41.

is bring together a group We talk about festivals next year,

:56:42.:56:47.

we need to get a move on and have a look at the way last

:56:48.:56:53.

year, well, 2016, has gone. We've come back to Fabric,

:56:54.:56:56.

to meet its boss, the day We sat in this venue a couple

:56:57.:57:02.

of weeks after you were closed down, And everyone on the stage kept

:57:03.:57:07.

talking about drug testing. There was a unanimous feeling

:57:08.:57:10.

that this was the way forward. And I wonder if you feel that,

:57:11.:57:13.

with all the restrictions that were placed on you yesterday,

:57:14.:57:18.

whether we ever going You know, I was up in Manchester

:57:19.:57:20.

last week at the Warehouse Project looking at Fiona Meacham's work

:57:21.:57:31.

which is the back-of-house testing. Which is still obviously very

:57:32.:57:34.

different to the front-of-house testing, which she had in place

:57:35.:57:37.

at Secret Garden Party, and certainly what you

:57:38.:57:40.

saw in Switzerland. I really like to think that's

:57:41.:57:46.

going to happen in a UK venue. And I would have thought councils

:57:47.:57:49.

like Manchester, who clearly are incredibly progressive

:57:50.:57:52.

in their thoughts would be I hope one day I get

:57:53.:57:54.

to see it in a venue. And then obviously the discussions

:57:55.:58:03.

we can have in and around Fabric, but, you know, we're working very

:58:04.:58:06.

closely with our partners in the Met to be pursuing

:58:07.:58:09.

the goals we want here. So, our journey's ended right

:58:10.:58:11.

where it started here at Fabric. And chatting to the owner just then,

:58:12.:58:14.

it's clear he is happy to have his licence back,

:58:15.:58:17.

but he's going to have to work under Conditions that seem a long way away

:58:18.:58:20.

from what we saw in Switzerland. And over the next few months,

:58:21.:58:24.

people both are there and here will be looking on to see

:58:25.:58:27.

which approach keeps clubbers safer. If you want to share that film, go

:58:28.:58:47.

to Radio 1 Newsbeat's site or the BBC News site. We are going to talk

:58:48.:58:50.

more about that in the next hour of the programme. Time for the latest

:58:51.:58:54.

weather now with Carol. Good morning. . Good morning. There will

:58:55.:59:05.

be a lot of sunshine around after a cold start. For England and Wales, a

:59:06.:59:10.

bit more cloud around than there is in Scotland. The breeze will help

:59:11.:59:13.

break up the cloud through the course of the day and Well see sunny

:59:14.:59:17.

or bright spells develop. We also have freezing fog and, if that

:59:18.:59:21.

lingers, for example around Glasgow, temperatures will be well

:59:22.:59:26.

suppressed. This evening, we hang on to the breezy conditions touching

:59:27.:59:29.

gale force across the English Channel. An action replay of the

:59:30.:59:34.

weather in the north tonight. We'll see some freezing fog. Further

:59:35.:59:38.

south, a colder night than the one just gone, particularly so in rural

:59:39.:59:41.

areas where we could have three or four Celsius. Because of the wind,

:59:42.:59:45.

we shouldn't have any problems with frost here. Tomorrow, a breezy day,

:59:46.:59:50.

sunshine on off, but across the far north of Scotland there is a weather

:59:51.:59:53.

front and we'll see more cloud and spots of rain coming from that. Also

:59:54.:59:57.

through the course of the day, we'll have some cloud drifting in from the

:59:58.:00:01.

North Sea across north-east England, the Midlands and also to the east of

:00:02.:00:03.

Wales. Yes, I do mean hello. I mean thank

:00:04.:00:08.

you, Carol! The NSPCC opens a hotline

:00:09.:00:17.

for victims of sexual abuse in football as the FA urges more men

:00:18.:00:24.

to come forward after the bravery shown by Andy Woodward

:00:25.:00:28.

on this programme. Andy Woodward has spoken out about

:00:29.:00:35.

the abuse he received as a boy and he speaks to the FA in the next

:00:36.:00:37.

hour. A senior police officer tells this

:00:38.:00:39.

programme dating apps could be doing The warning comes after serial

:00:40.:00:42.

killer Stephen Port murdered four We want people to get to know the

:00:43.:00:50.

person, meet in public and stay in public until they are entirely

:00:51.:00:54.

comfortable and I think some of these apps could take more

:00:55.:00:56.

responsibility. And what does the Autumn

:00:57.:00:58.

Statement mean for you? Our political guru Norman Smith

:00:59.:01:01.

will break it down for all of us. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:01:02.:01:07.

with a summary of today's news. The Football Association is due

:01:08.:01:20.

to meet Andy Woodward to discuss the allegations made

:01:21.:01:22.

by former players It comes as the FA Ramsey to make

:01:23.:01:36.

more action to prevent players are being abused. Four former players

:01:37.:01:40.

have now gone public to say they were abused by coaches. The charity

:01:41.:01:44.

and the FA strongly suspect more people have been targeted in the

:01:45.:01:47.

past and they are urging others to speak up.

:01:48.:01:52.

The government has defended gloomy forecasts for the economy set out in

:01:53.:01:55.

the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, following fierce criticism from some

:01:56.:01:57.

The Office for Budget Responsibility predicts that leaving

:01:58.:02:00.

the EU will cost Britain about ?60 billion over five years.

:02:01.:02:02.

But Philip Hammond said the government's aim was to continue

:02:03.:02:06.

But it was good to prepare for a rainy day.

:02:07.:02:14.

At 11.30 this morning on the BBC News Channel you can

:02:15.:02:17.

put your questions about the Autumn Statement to a panel of experts.

:02:18.:02:20.

We'll be joined by Mike Spicer from the British Chambers

:02:21.:02:23.

of Commerce, the creator of SavvyWomen and personal finance

:02:24.:02:25.

journalist Sarah Pennells, and Hugh Stickland from

:02:26.:02:26.

put your questions about the autumn statement to a panel of experts.

:02:27.:02:32.

We'll be joined by mike spicer from the british chambers

:02:33.:02:34.

of commerce, the creator of savvywomen and personal finance

:02:35.:02:36.

journalist sarah pennells, and hugh stickland from

:02:37.:02:38.

You can get in touch by text, email or on Twitter using

:02:39.:02:42.

put your questions about the autumn statement to a panel of experts.

:02:43.:02:46.

We'll be joined by mike spicer from the british chambers

:02:47.:02:48.

of commerce, the creator of savvywomen and personal finance

:02:49.:02:51.

journalist sarah pennells, and hugh stickland from

:02:52.:02:52.

You can get in touch by text, email or on Twitter using

:02:53.:02:56.

A health trust has apologised after shocking details emerged

:02:57.:02:58.

of a series of failures in maternity care at two hospitals.

:02:59.:03:01.

An internal review at Royal Oldham and North Manchester General

:03:02.:03:03.

hospitals was only made public after an investigation

:03:04.:03:05.

The report describes one incident where a baby born prematurely

:03:06.:03:09.

was left to die alone in a room used for waste disposal.

:03:10.:03:12.

In another case a mother died after staff ignored her symptoms,

:03:13.:03:14.

believing instead she had mental health issues.

:03:15.:03:16.

The Pennine Acute Hospital Trust, which runs the hospitals,

:03:17.:03:18.

The police watchdog is investigating hundreds of allegations of police

:03:19.:03:22.

failures relating to child sexual abuse cases

:03:23.:03:23.

in England and Wales, according to figures obtained

:03:24.:03:25.

Research show 27 inquiries have been completed.

:03:26.:03:30.

It could mean disciplinary action for up to 15 officers.

:03:31.:03:33.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission says it continues

:03:34.:03:35.

We all know that basketball players are tall but you'd need to be pretty

:03:36.:03:43.

Australia's Derek Herron set a new world record for the highest

:03:44.:03:52.

basketball shot by launching the ball from the top

:03:53.:03:57.

It took just three attempts for Derek to hit the target.

:03:58.:04:07.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

:04:08.:04:12.

Imagine if the camera had not been working on that attempt!

:04:13.:04:17.

Starting with Champions League football this morning.

:04:18.:04:22.

Manchester City and Arsenal are through to the last 16.

:04:23.:04:24.

For City, a 1-1 draw was enough for them at Borussia

:04:25.:04:28.

And it means they've reached the knockout stages

:04:29.:04:32.

of the Champions League for the fourth consecutive season.

:04:33.:04:34.

David Silva pounced on a cross just before the break to earn

:04:35.:04:39.

Pep Guardiola's men a point and secure second place in Group C

:04:40.:04:42.

Celtic didn't favour so well in that group though.

:04:43.:04:48.

They lost 2-0 to Barcelona at Celtic Park.

:04:49.:04:50.

Considering they lost 7-0 to Barca last time out,

:04:51.:04:54.

But they are out of the competition and will finish bottom of Group C.

:04:55.:05:01.

Joining City in the last 16 will be Arsenal.

:05:02.:05:04.

They might feel disappointed that they couldn't wrap up a win

:05:05.:05:09.

against Paris Saint Germain to give them a better chance

:05:10.:05:11.

of finishing top of the group and a more favourable

:05:12.:05:14.

It was 1-1 at half time, but a stroke of luck

:05:15.:05:17.

for the Gunners saw them go ahead through a Marco Varatti own goal

:05:18.:05:22.

But they suffered a taste of their own medicine 20

:05:23.:05:27.

minutes later when Alex Iwobi conceded an own goal

:05:28.:05:29.

With one game left to play, Arsenal will struggle to top

:05:30.:05:38.

In cricket, England's men begin the third Test against India

:05:39.:05:41.

in the early hours of Saturday morning.

:05:42.:05:43.

They drew the first, and lost the second.

:05:44.:05:45.

They've been in the practice nets today, and we're expecting a few

:05:46.:05:48.

Jos Buttler looks likely to return to replace the struggling Ben

:05:49.:05:58.

Duckett. Stuart Broad is still struggling with a foot injury so

:05:59.:06:01.

Chris Woakes will likely come in to replace him. Scotland's men have

:06:02.:06:11.

missed out on a place in the semifinals of the curling

:06:12.:06:15.

championship, losing out to Russia. The women are through skippered by

:06:16.:06:19.

Eve Muirhead. They have won all eight of their matches and are under

:06:20.:06:22.

way in their ninth and final one against Russia. It is 3-1 to

:06:23.:06:29.

Scotland after four ends. That is all the sport now. I will be back

:06:30.:06:33.

just after 10:30am the latest headlines. Thank you.

:06:34.:07:00.

Barry Bennell, a convicted paedophile, abused David White. He

:07:01.:07:09.

has waived his anonymity. In a statement issued he has said:

:07:10.:08:06.

Cheshire Police now say 11 people have come forward alleging sexual

:08:07.:08:09.

abuse at the hands of their youth coaches when they were young boys.

:08:10.:08:12.

It follows our exclusive interview with ex-Crewe player Andy Woodward

:08:13.:08:14.

a week ago, who told us he had been raped hundreds of times

:08:15.:08:17.

by Barry Bennell over a period of four years.

:08:18.:08:20.

His testimony was part of the case against Bennell in the late 90s

:08:21.:08:24.

when the coach was jailed for 9 years for offences against boys.

:08:25.:08:27.

When Mr Woodward spoke to us again this week,

:08:28.:08:29.

he said more players were coming forward all the time.

:08:30.:08:44.

I've been inundated not only with not the six people that

:08:45.:08:47.

but also direct messages from other players, who have

:08:48.:08:52.

told me so many stories that are absolutely heartbreaking.

:08:53.:08:54.

I've been so emotional, over the last days.

:08:55.:08:59.

They've reached out to me and thanked me so much

:09:00.:09:01.

You know, it's given them that faith.

:09:02.:09:04.

So you've spoken to six, but as you say, other

:09:05.:09:07.

In total, how many people do you think have got in touch

:09:08.:09:11.

Gosh, there's several people that have contacted me.

:09:12.:09:15.

I can't put a number on it, really.

:09:16.:09:17.

And they vary, really, in what they've said.

:09:18.:09:19.

Yeah, yeah, they're ex-footballers, yeah.

:09:20.:09:26.

And did they say to you that they found the courage to speak

:09:27.:09:29.

Absolutely, that's what they've said.

:09:30.:09:34.

They said because of what I said, it's given them that courage

:09:35.:09:37.

and that belief and that strength to actually come out and say it.

:09:38.:09:45.

Andy Woodward meets the FA this morning to discuss what happened to

:09:46.:09:48.

him. Since then, the former Spurs

:09:49.:09:51.

and England star, Paul Stewart, told the Daily Mirror that

:09:52.:09:53.

a different coach abused him every He says his attacker got away

:09:54.:09:56.

with it by threatening to kill his relatives

:09:57.:10:01.

if he ever told anyone. He blames the abuse

:10:02.:10:03.

for drink and drug problems It started from touching

:10:04.:10:05.

and then developed more and the threats of violence

:10:06.:10:17.

towards your family, really, if you were to breathe

:10:18.:10:22.

a word to anybody. I believe he said he was going to

:10:23.:10:24.

kill your brothers? Yeah, he threatened

:10:25.:10:28.

both my brothers to me. And, of course, all those years

:10:29.:10:30.

you were playing at the top level, you talked about Paul Gascoigne

:10:31.:10:45.

and Lineker and all these huge household names at the time, John

:10:46.:10:48.

Barnes, when you were at Liverpool. Even as you were enjoying

:10:49.:10:51.

the accolades of success, you were dealing with it,

:10:52.:10:53.

and had suicidal thoughts I mean, in football,

:10:54.:10:55.

there are lots of highs and lows, which you deal with as part

:10:56.:11:00.

of the game. And I dealt with this

:11:01.:11:05.

inwardly alongside that. It took me some years to talk

:11:06.:11:13.

to my family about it, my wife. And, yeah, I struggled,

:11:14.:11:18.

and still struggle to this day, I'm lucky that I've got a strong

:11:19.:11:20.

family unit around me. Because, you know, I don't really

:11:21.:11:29.

know whether I would The most difficult thing,

:11:30.:11:32.

throughout is the fact I was void of all

:11:33.:11:38.

emotions, whatsoever. Paul Stewart talking to the Daily

:11:39.:11:52.

Mirror. They gave us permission to use that extract.

:11:53.:11:57.

Labour says the FA isn't doing enough

:11:58.:12:01.

In a statement the shadow sports minister Dr Rosena Allin-Khan said:

:12:02.:12:09.

99.9% of coaches and officials will have every child's

:12:10.:12:11.

best interests in mind but we must root out the 0.1%

:12:12.:12:13.

I'm joined now by John Cameron, head of helplines at the NSPCC,

:12:14.:12:19.

which has set up a dedicated helpline for footballers

:12:20.:12:21.

And we're joined by Mark Palios, who is a former chairman of the FA

:12:22.:12:25.

Do you know how many people will bring the hotline? The hotline has

:12:26.:12:31.

been open for two ours and we have received in excess of 50 contacts

:12:32.:12:35.

and nearly 20 of those have resulted in further information being passed

:12:36.:12:41.

to the police for the investigation and consideration. This is a

:12:42.:12:44.

considerable number of contacts at this early stage. We are likely to

:12:45.:12:50.

get many, many more. 50 contacts and what kind of things are they saying?

:12:51.:12:55.

It is all around concerns about sexual abuse and how children are

:12:56.:13:00.

being treated in football. In the past or now? In the past and the

:13:01.:13:06.

present. It is beginning to open up quite serious concerns about what

:13:07.:13:09.

has been happening historically and if there are children who are

:13:10.:13:13.

victims of abuse today, then this programme will be very helpful in

:13:14.:13:18.

giving out a very clear message to the public to say if you have

:13:19.:13:21.

concerns about children in football, you must come to us now, so we can

:13:22.:13:27.

bring potential individuals who may be threatening children to account.

:13:28.:13:31.

If someone calls you helpline, what do you then do quests? People don't

:13:32.:13:40.

have to tell us who they are and they can just receive help and

:13:41.:13:45.

guidance about moving on. But if we do have allegations of abuse in the

:13:46.:13:49.

past identifying individuals and clubs, then we will pass them to the

:13:50.:13:53.

police and they will undertake investigations. Mark Palios, thank

:13:54.:13:57.

you for talking to us, former chief executive of the FA and former

:13:58.:14:03.

player at Crewe in your late 20s, I think. Did you hear talk about youth

:14:04.:14:06.

coaches and in particular Barry Bennell? Not at all. Barry Bennell

:14:07.:14:13.

was after I had finished playing. I am flattered you thought I was

:14:14.:14:18.

playing then! It is a very macho atmosphere around the club and the

:14:19.:14:22.

dressing room. Something like that would probably not have surfaced in

:14:23.:14:25.

those days. Right. The people I have read to have spoken publicly and

:14:26.:14:32.

having spoken to Andy Woodward, there was, quote, banter in the

:14:33.:14:37.

changing rooms about boys being the favourites of certain coaches. Yes,

:14:38.:14:44.

well, I never came across that personally, as I say. There is no

:14:45.:14:47.

doubt that this kind of thing went on. It would be naive to suggest

:14:48.:14:51.

that a game that has involvement of so many youngsters that it wouldn't

:14:52.:14:59.

be a scenario that paedophiles would target. In all organisations with

:15:00.:15:04.

youngsters, you find this. Churches, scouts, etc. You would be naive to

:15:05.:15:12.

suggest it hasn't gone on. It is a pretty hard watch when you watch the

:15:13.:15:16.

video of the likes of Paul Stewart for example. You know that lots of

:15:17.:15:21.

people have been affected by this. If you were to ask me the question

:15:22.:15:26.

whether it is the same today, I think things have changed quite

:15:27.:15:30.

considerably since then. While the helpline is welcomed because it lets

:15:31.:15:35.

people feel that they can, without recrimination, which is very

:15:36.:15:40.

important, trust the confidentiality of the NSPCC, which is great, but

:15:41.:15:44.

also you have got to recognise the sport has done a lot for itself over

:15:45.:15:48.

the course of the last 20 or 30 years. But you can never be

:15:49.:15:49.

complacent. It's grim that John Cameron is

:15:50.:15:58.

telling us they are getting calls about alleged cases in the present.

:15:59.:16:02.

John, Andy Woodward told us that there is a particular culture in

:16:03.:16:10.

football which means these men kept this secret for decades. That's Had

:16:11.:16:16.

a cataclysmic effect on their lives? It's had a bad effect on people and

:16:17.:16:20.

there are a lot of individuals who've suffered harm in the past

:16:21.:16:24.

that need to come forward and we do appreciate with the macho culture

:16:25.:16:29.

that we just heard, it's gone away but has still gone away

:16:30.:16:32.

significantly but it's still around at the moment. The FA are doing

:16:33.:16:37.

everything possible to be able to introduce good safeguarding

:16:38.:16:43.

practices to clubs. But you need more, you need this change of

:16:44.:16:46.

culture and what we need now is for all the clubs afilliated to the FA

:16:47.:16:52.

to reflect back on what they're doing and how they are messaging out

:16:53.:16:57.

to children and young men about the ability to actually come forward. I

:16:58.:17:01.

think what we've got to do is encourage children now and people in

:17:02.:17:05.

the past, if they have been victims of abuse, or if they are being

:17:06.:17:08.

harmed in any sort of way in football, they need to come forward.

:17:09.:17:12.

It's essential we get to the bottom of this and that the FA can address

:17:13.:17:17.

the short falls. You say you have had 50 contacts since the helpline's

:17:18.:17:21.

been open in just two hours. Does that mean 50 individual? 50

:17:22.:17:26.

individual people calling us about concerns for children either now or

:17:27.:17:29.

in the past. Thank you very much John Cameron from the NSPCC and Mark

:17:30.:17:36.

Palios, former chairman of the FA and chairman now of Tranmere.

:17:37.:17:39.

The NSPCC free helpline offers advice and support to anyone

:17:40.:17:42.

who experienced sexual abuse as a young footballer.

:17:43.:17:48.

Steve Walters, who came forward to The Guardian after hearing

:17:49.:17:51.

Andy Woodward's story, will be on the programme tomorrow,

:17:52.:17:54.

in his first TV interview about the secret he kept for decades.

:17:55.:17:57.

He says he too was abused by Bennell.

:17:58.:18:00.

Steve was one of the best young players in the country

:18:01.:18:04.

He's coming on the progamme tomorrow and he's told me on the phone

:18:05.:18:11.

already he felt his football career was 'snatched away from him'

:18:12.:18:14.

because of the abuse he experienced at the age of around 13.

:18:15.:18:17.

So that's tomorrow, exculsively on this programme at 9.15am.

:18:18.:18:28.

Let's return to the conviction of the serial killer Stephen Port,

:18:29.:18:30.

found guilty yesterday of murdering four men he met through gay dating

:18:31.:18:33.

The national police lead on LGBT issues has told this programme

:18:34.:18:37.

exclusively that the apps themselves could be doing more

:18:38.:18:40.

Port also raped or sexually assaulted at least six men

:18:41.:18:44.

he met through the apps, luring them to his flat before

:18:45.:18:47.

The Metropolitan Police have said they fear there are more victims out

:18:48.:18:53.

Dan Clark-Neal, a former Met Police detective,

:18:54.:18:58.

Hook-up apps are a fact of life for many gay men and can offer

:18:59.:19:16.

almost instant access to dates or casual sex at the

:19:17.:19:19.

But the trial of this man, Stephen Port, has cast a new light

:19:20.:19:29.

Port has been convicted of murdering four men he met through hook-up

:19:30.:19:35.

And the men he raped only came forward after Port

:19:36.:19:40.

had been charged with the murders.

:19:41.:19:42.

As a gay man and former Met police detective,

:19:43.:19:48.

the case of Stephen Porte has really struck a chord with me

:19:49.:19:51.

and I've asked myself, many times recently,

:19:52.:19:53.

what would I have done in those circumstances?

:19:54.:19:55.

And, if I'm being completely honest, I don't think I would have

:19:56.:19:58.

reported it to the police, even when I was serving as a police

:19:59.:20:01.

officer myself. I reckon I would have been

:20:02.:20:04.

embarrassed that I put myself in a situation like that.

:20:05.:20:06.

So, I really want to get to the bottom of whether there

:20:07.:20:09.

a stigma attached to reporting sexual offences like these.

:20:10.:20:17.

We never stop talking about him, we always talk about him.

:20:18.:20:22.

You involve him, like he's still here.

:20:23.:20:27.

Jack Taylor was the last person Stephen Port murdered.

:20:28.:20:31.

I came out of college and mum had called me.

:20:32.:20:36.

Initially, I heard the police ask if they was Jack's mum and dad.

:20:37.:20:43.

And I kind of knew what that scream meant.

:20:44.:20:52.

Port murdered Jack in September 2015 and had raped or sexually assaulted

:20:53.:20:55.

Jack's sisters say they can understand why the surviving victims

:20:56.:21:01.

I would say it's probably very difficult for them to come forward.

:21:02.:21:08.

They might feel ashamed, I don't know.

:21:09.:21:11.

They obviously didn't know he was doing that,

:21:12.:21:13.

they might have just thought it was to them, I don't know.

:21:14.:21:16.

But they've now thought if they did come forward,

:21:17.:21:20.

they might have stopped him, so they've got to live with that.

:21:21.:21:23.

That's not their fault, but that's how they might think.

:21:24.:21:26.

It's heartbreaking for us to sit there and listen to what they've

:21:27.:21:32.

It's not nice, is it, to hear that.

:21:33.:21:37.

You do just want to get up and give them

:21:38.:21:40.

It must be hard to actually say, "I've been raped, but I don't

:21:41.:21:48.

What would you have said to Jack then, if you'd known

:21:49.:21:56.

he was using sites like Grindr, which is where he met Stephen Port.

:21:57.:21:59.

But if he were still adamant he was going to use them,

:22:00.:22:10.

I know we would have said, "You know, where are you going?"

:22:11.:22:19.

And wanted to know so much more before we'd even left,

:22:20.:22:23.

Knowing the way me and Jen are, we probably would have had a look

:22:24.:22:31.

Adrian used hook-up apps and websites on and off

:22:32.:22:48.

Often taking drugs or chems with the people he met.

:22:49.:22:57.

You are playing a bit of Russian roulette with your life

:22:58.:22:59.

He told me about a time he'd arranged to meet a guy one

:23:00.:23:04.

He was the person that looks like what I thought he was.

:23:05.:23:12.

So, you strike up a conversation, you see how you feel with each

:23:13.:23:21.

other, there was no hesitation, in terms of foreur play.

:23:22.:23:27.

other, there was no hesitation, in terms of foreplay.

:23:28.:23:29.

You get to the point of wanting to talk about what sort

:23:30.:23:33.

of chems you're going to take and how much.

:23:34.:23:36.

All of that was talked about openly, honestly.

:23:37.:23:38.

Therefore, I had no concerns about going forward.

:23:39.:23:40.

Adrian says he was given a cocktail of drugs by the man he met up with.

:23:41.:23:44.

It's then that things got out of hand.

:23:45.:23:46.

Within seconds, his clothes were off.

:23:47.:23:48.

Within seconds, we were in the bedroom.

:23:49.:23:50.

And all I can remember was laying down on the bed and then that's it.

:23:51.:23:54.

Between roughly 2am or 3am in the morning and 7am

:23:55.:24:09.

I was worried enough to decide, let's go to a sexual health

:24:10.:24:20.

To see whether there was anything I had caught or whether there

:24:21.:24:24.

Adrian still doesn't know whether he was sexually assaulted

:24:25.:24:27.

that night and he blames himself for what happened.

:24:28.:24:30.

I have never, ever mentioned or talked about any of these

:24:31.:24:35.

Because I've always been of the view that I put myself in the position,

:24:36.:24:42.

For Adrian, drugs are one of the main barriers when it comes

:24:43.:24:48.

There is a pressure that is put on your shoulders that says,

:24:49.:24:54.

I know something is not right, but, at the same time,

:24:55.:24:59.

I can't, 100%, conclusively say what happened.

:25:00.:25:02.

If you are in a similarly chemed-up state, your memory blurs very

:25:03.:25:10.

That first hurdle, knowing what you've already done,

:25:11.:25:16.

means that you're not going to go to the police.

:25:17.:25:19.

Some people watching may think it's simple, don't take drugs,

:25:20.:25:23.

Well, I mean, I'm still working through the fact that I don't

:25:24.:25:28.

But I know it's a difficult path, it's just like giving up alcohol,

:25:29.:25:34.

it's just like giving up other addictions.

:25:35.:25:35.

And it requires a lot of strength of character

:25:36.:25:38.

Thousands of men use hook-up apps every day.

:25:39.:25:51.

The apps use GPS to allow anyone with a profile to send

:25:52.:25:54.

messages, share pictures, preferences and their location.

:25:55.:26:02.

Josh has been using apps like Grindr since his teens and

:26:03.:26:09.

Every spare five minutes, ten minutes you get,

:26:10.:26:14.

I just think, whip it out, have a quick look, see who's around.

:26:15.:26:20.

If there's anyone close who looks decent, why not?

:26:21.:26:23.

How often would you go further than having a little chat online

:26:24.:26:26.

It used to be, quite honestly, at least several times a week that

:26:27.:26:33.

When you get to the point of meeting people, are you sober,

:26:34.:26:41.

What state are you in, generally, when you meet people?

:26:42.:26:45.

I would say eight times out of ten I am sober.

:26:46.:26:49.

There are a few odd occasions when I've met someone very,

:26:50.:26:51.

You can almost equate it to almost a one-night stand.

:26:52.:26:57.

You wake up in the morning and they're still there

:26:58.:27:00.

and you're sort of... "Oh, no, what's gone on?"

:27:01.:27:05.

Josh has had a couple of close shaves using the apps.

:27:06.:27:09.

On one occasion, his hook up refused to let him leave.

:27:10.:27:12.

I think I logged off it for another few months before eventually

:27:13.:27:15.

I turned around again and was like, oh well, bad experience,

:27:16.:27:21.

but, you know, carry on using it, like everyone else.

:27:22.:27:25.

What would be serious enough for you to even contemplate

:27:26.:27:28.

If I was, I don't know, perhaps if I was actually raped or

:27:29.:27:34.

But even then, there would be a lot of hesitation.

:27:35.:27:41.

Supposing it got to a court and things like this and you had

:27:42.:27:44.

to explain the circumstances of, how did this come about?

:27:45.:27:48.

I would feel that it would just be all thrown back at you.

:27:49.:27:53.

And you'd be in the spotlight for saying, well, look

:27:54.:27:57.

For Josh, society's perception of gay hook-up apps were a real

:27:58.:28:06.

So I wanted to get a sense of how other gay men use the apps

:28:07.:28:13.

and what they would do if they were assaulted.

:28:14.:28:15.

Guys, can I just ask you a quick question at all?

:28:16.:28:18.

I met someone that was really, really dodgy.

:28:19.:28:22.

I bought someone back and I couldn't wait to get him out of me flat.

:28:23.:28:26.

I never had anyone, like, turn up at the door and they were,

:28:27.:28:29.

like, a different picture or anything, no.

:28:30.:28:32.

You're always likely to meet some kind of weirdo

:28:33.:28:35.

or some kind of lunatic in G-A-Y or somewhere down

:28:36.:28:37.

to mug you off or take you for a ride, anyway.

:28:38.:28:44.

A lot of people are really, really just after sex on Grindr, so,

:28:45.:28:47.

you're going to the police and start going on about your

:28:48.:28:51.

If you did have a negative experience in that maybe he became

:28:52.:28:58.

a victim of crime after a hook-up meet, would you feel comfortable

:28:59.:29:01.

speaking to the police about that do you feel?

:29:02.:29:03.

I wouldn't have any qualms about that.

:29:04.:29:07.

I would blame myself more and I would probably be too

:29:08.:29:10.

embarrassed to go and say, look, this has happened.

:29:11.:29:14.

Figures for the number of sexual assaults relating to hook-up apps

:29:15.:29:19.

In the first six months of 2016, 50 sexual assaults were reported

:29:20.:29:24.

But a leading LGBT charity, who've been supporting

:29:25.:29:33.

Port's surviving victims, say the numbers are likely

:29:34.:29:35.

Yeah, we've seen a dramatic rise in the number of sexual

:29:36.:29:40.

We, of course, don't know whether that is because there's

:29:41.:29:45.

actually has been a rise in sexual assaults happening or whether it's

:29:46.:29:49.

But it's definitely an increase that we've seen.

:29:50.:29:55.

What more could apps be doing to keep their users safe?

:29:56.:29:57.

Apps could be doing a lot more to protect people's safety.

:29:58.:30:00.

There should be better whistle-blowing facilities

:30:01.:30:03.

for people to report fake profiles and that those profiles do

:30:04.:30:06.

And they could work proactively with the police to almost use apps

:30:07.:30:11.

as a third-party reporting system to, kind of, identify people that

:30:12.:30:14.

In your mind, could the police be doing more to encourage

:30:15.:30:19.

It's that initial report being received well and believed.

:30:20.:30:30.

And having the knowledge to understand what someone

:30:31.:30:32.

is talking about and then going forward, that the cases

:30:33.:30:35.

are handled in an appropriate and sensitive way.

:30:36.:30:39.

Of the over 100 we've seen in the last few years of clients

:30:40.:30:44.

that have come to Galop and reported sexual assault in a chem-sex or

:30:45.:30:49.

hook-up way, not one has been charged and gone to court.

:30:50.:30:52.

And the police accept there is a problem.

:30:53.:30:55.

There is underreporting, we know there's underreporting, but,

:30:56.:30:57.

of course, you would expect me to say we would always want

:30:58.:31:00.

People always say, when individuals go to the doctor, the doctor

:31:01.:31:05.

will have heard it all before, don't worry about going to your doctor.

:31:06.:31:08.

We want people to come to us and there isn't really anything

:31:09.:31:12.

people can come and report to us that we haven't heard before.

:31:13.:31:15.

I don't want any embarrassment or confidence issues associated

:31:16.:31:19.

Sometimes when men hook up, they've willingly taken drugs,

:31:20.:31:29.

so when the offence takes place, they are concerned about going

:31:30.:31:32.

We wouldn't be pursuing the fact that they've taken drugs.

:31:33.:31:38.

What we would do is be interested in the serious offence

:31:39.:31:41.

And, therefore, there shouldn't be, I know there is, but there shouldn't

:31:42.:31:47.

be any concerns about the gay community reporting things

:31:48.:31:49.

Could the apps themselves be doing more to prevent

:31:50.:31:52.

The way technology is, some of these safety messages

:31:53.:31:58.

The sort of things that spring to mind are get to know

:31:59.:32:06.

You're never going to know somebody online the same way as you're

:32:07.:32:10.

And, actually, years gone by, you would meet somebody and then

:32:11.:32:14.

meet them again and then meet them again.

:32:15.:32:16.

So, actually, what we want people to do is get

:32:17.:32:19.

Stay in public, until you're entirely comfortable.

:32:20.:32:23.

I think some of these apps could take more responsibility

:32:24.:32:25.

for passing on those safety messages, so that offences didn't

:32:26.:32:27.

Sadly, none of this will make any difference to Stephen Port's victims

:32:28.:32:33.

or their families, but it might help stop another man

:32:34.:32:36.

It's took things away that can never be replaced.

:32:37.:32:55.

And we have to live with that. We all do.

:32:56.:32:58.

Without somebody that was so special to us.

:32:59.:33:17.

And we did approach some of the apps mentioned in the film, but no one

:33:18.:33:20.

Incredibly painful. Here is a neat with the latest news headlines.

:33:21.:33:33.

The NSPCC says since it opened a dedicated football abuse helpline

:33:34.:33:36.

this morning it's passed information from 20 calls to the police

:33:37.:33:38.

Four former players have now gone public to say they were abused

:33:39.:33:42.

It comes as the Football Association is due to meet Andy Woodward

:33:43.:33:49.

at Wembley this morning to discuss the allegations.

:33:50.:33:51.

John Cameron from the NSPCC says he expects the number of people

:33:52.:33:54.

The hotline has now been running for two hours.

:33:55.:33:58.

I've just checked with our call centre.

:33:59.:34:00.

We've received in excess of 50 contacts, nearly 20 of those have

:34:01.:34:04.

resulted in further information being passed to the police for their

:34:05.:34:07.

So this is quite a considerable number of contacts at

:34:08.:34:12.

We are likely to get many, many more.

:34:13.:34:19.

The government has defended gloomy forecasts for the economy set out in

:34:20.:34:23.

the Chancellor's Autumn Statement, after fierce criticism

:34:24.:34:25.

The Office for Budget Responsibility predicts that leaving

:34:26.:34:28.

the EU will cost Britain about ?60 billion

:34:29.:34:30.

But Philip Hammond said the government's aim was to continue

:34:31.:34:39.

growing the economy, but it was good to prepare

:34:40.:34:41.

A health trust has apologised after details emerged

:34:42.:34:46.

of a series of failures in maternity care at two of its hospitals.

:34:47.:34:49.

An internal review at Royal Oldham and North Manchester General

:34:50.:34:51.

hospitals was only made public after an investigation

:34:52.:34:53.

The report describes one incident where a baby born prematurely

:34:54.:34:58.

was left to die alone in a room used for waste disposal.

:34:59.:35:03.

In another case a mother died after staff ignored her symptoms,

:35:04.:35:06.

believing she had mental heath issues instead.

:35:07.:35:09.

The Pennine Acute Hospital Trust, which runs the hospital,

:35:10.:35:13.

Researchers say predatory bacteria, which eat others of their kind,

:35:14.:35:23.

could be a new weapon in the fight against drug resistant superbugs.

:35:24.:35:26.

The studies on animals, acted like a living antibiotic

:35:27.:35:28.

to help clear an otherwise lethal infection, and suggested

:35:29.:35:30.

Experts say the approach was unusual but should not be overlooked,

:35:31.:35:34.

as more levels of bacteria become resistant to drugs.

:35:35.:35:40.

Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11 o'clock.

:35:41.:35:48.

We have just had a statement from the sports minister, Tracey Crouch,

:35:49.:35:56.

regarding the sex scandal. The players that have broken their

:35:57.:35:59.

silence to speak out about the abuse they suffered have shown incredible

:36:00.:36:03.

bravery. This safety of participants in sport at every level is

:36:04.:36:07.

paramount. Governing bodies, clubs and coaches have a duty of care to

:36:08.:36:11.

young people who attend sports clubs. The child protection in sport

:36:12.:36:15.

unit has standards and safeguards for protecting children in sport

:36:16.:36:20.

which organisations have got to adhere to. Now the rest of the

:36:21.:36:21.

sport. Thank you. A mixed bag for the British teams

:36:22.:36:25.

in European football last night. Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola

:36:26.:36:31.

says his team can now focus on the Premier League,

:36:32.:36:34.

after securing a place in the knockout stages

:36:35.:36:36.

of the Champions League. They drew 1-1 at Borussia

:36:37.:36:38.

Monchengladbach. David Silva with

:36:39.:36:40.

the equalising goal. They are out of the competition

:36:41.:36:42.

after losing 2-0 to Barcelona Lionel Messi scored both goals

:36:43.:36:47.

to keep Celtic bottom That is the same group as Manchester

:36:48.:36:51.

City. Joining City in the last

:36:52.:36:58.

16 will be Arsenal. Although they might be disappointed

:36:59.:37:00.

with Paris Saint Germain's equalising goal, which means

:37:01.:37:02.

they now face a struggle to top their group and receive

:37:03.:37:06.

a more favourable draw And Scotland's men have missed out

:37:07.:37:09.

on a place in the semi-finals of the European Curling

:37:10.:37:14.

Championships, but They've won all 8 of their group

:37:15.:37:15.

games and are under way in the final It is 6-3 to Scotland with four ends

:37:16.:37:22.

to play. That's all the sport

:37:23.:37:31.

from me for now. I'll have more on the BBC

:37:32.:37:33.

News Channel throughout the day. Slower economic growth and more

:37:34.:37:35.

borrowing because of the vote to leave the European Union -

:37:36.:37:38.

just two things to come out of Chancellor Philip Hammond's

:37:39.:37:41.

first Autumn Statement. What else was in it

:37:42.:37:42.

and what does it mean for you? Our political guru Norman Smith

:37:43.:37:45.

is across all of the fallout. Thank you. This is the Chancellor's

:37:46.:37:52.

good book containing the facts, figures and forecasts. Maybe not the

:37:53.:37:56.

good book. A book of gloom because it pains a dire picture. Let's take

:37:57.:38:00.

a look at the Treasury cash registers and the bills coming our

:38:01.:38:08.

way. Prices. We are all going to be paying more in the shops with

:38:09.:38:13.

inflation set to peak at 2.5%. That is painful. Also the standard of

:38:14.:38:18.

living, the expectation is that our standard of living could go down by

:38:19.:38:22.

around 3%. That is not such great news. Gross, -- growth, that will

:38:23.:38:33.

dip by 2.5% through slower exports and reduced immigration. The

:38:34.:38:41.

Colossus of the bills is debt which will reach a staggering ?2 trillion.

:38:42.:38:54.

An extra 122 billion just by 2020 so a massive increase in the amount of

:38:55.:38:57.

money we owe to the rest of the world. What has been the response of

:38:58.:39:00.

the Brexiteers to the gloomy forecast? They have accused the

:39:01.:39:10.

Office for Budget Responsibility of being scaremongers and producing

:39:11.:39:15.

project via Mark two. As a Brexiteer, who fought on the side of

:39:16.:39:20.

Leave the six months, there were forecasts coming out of our ears

:39:21.:39:23.

that the world would end on the 24th of June and I'm pleased to say it

:39:24.:39:25.

didn't. Suspicion of experts goes back

:39:26.:39:29.

into antiquity and it's a very Experts, soothsayers,

:39:30.:39:32.

astrologers are all in Well, we've had a lot of forecasts

:39:33.:39:34.

so far and the forecasts tend to take the worst possible case,

:39:35.:39:38.

which is right, in a sense, because the government needs

:39:39.:39:41.

to prepare for the worst. But every forecast

:39:42.:39:43.

so far has been wrong. So much for the big economics and

:39:44.:39:50.

the big politics. How will the statement of fact ordinary folk and

:39:51.:39:55.

their daily lives? Insuring premiums are going up. It is estimated if you

:39:56.:40:01.

wrap together premiums for your car insurance, your house insurance and

:40:02.:40:05.

your pet insurance, that could be ?90 more every year. On the plus

:40:06.:40:08.

side, the national living wage is going up to ?7.50 per hour, an

:40:09.:40:16.

estimated ?500 extra for some people. Fuel duty frozen for another

:40:17.:40:21.

year. That could be worth maybe ?140 for motorists, and more homes.

:40:22.:40:28.

40,000 more affordable homes being paid for by an extra 1 billion from

:40:29.:40:34.

the Treasury. This is an interesting fact. Mrs May said that she wanted

:40:35.:40:37.

to help those who were struggling, the so-called JAMs, that nasty

:40:38.:40:46.

phrase means those just about managing. The people who will be

:40:47.:40:49.

squeezed Tardis will be the bottom 30%. -- squeezed hardest. How did

:40:50.:40:55.

Mrs May respond? Well, let's just think

:40:56.:40:58.

of who we are talking about when I talked

:40:59.:41:02.

These are people who have a job but worry

:41:03.:41:05.

about their security, they have a home but

:41:06.:41:07.

We're helping people in a variety of ways.

:41:08.:41:10.

Of course, that includes raising the national living

:41:11.:41:12.

wage, raising personal tax allowance, which will take more

:41:13.:41:14.

people out of paying tax altogether and give a tax cut to people.

:41:15.:41:17.

And of course, we are committed to building

:41:18.:41:19.

more affordable homes but what matters is

:41:20.:41:23.

underneath all of this is ensuring we have a strong economy.

:41:24.:41:27.

That is what the Autumn Statement was about yesterday. Ensuring we

:41:28.:41:33.

have a strong economy and we are investing in the future. That means

:41:34.:41:38.

jobs for people for the future. So all in all, the gloomy forecast. So

:41:39.:41:43.

what on earth is Philip Hammond smiling about? Take a look at this

:41:44.:41:47.

picture that the Treasury release of Philip Hammond smiling away looking

:41:48.:41:54.

at his Autumn Statement. What is he smiling about? Maybe answers on a

:41:55.:41:59.

postcard or may tweak us to say why Philip Hammond is smiling. That is a

:42:00.:42:04.

good idea. 15 minutes left of this programme so hurry. Coming up:

:42:05.:42:08.

Should people who use Class A drugs be allowed to get them safety-tested

:42:09.:42:11.

One leading police officer thinks that could be useful.

:42:12.:42:14.

He is even talking to the Home Office about it.

:42:15.:42:19.

Today Thomas Mair begins a life sentence for the murder

:42:20.:42:21.

and far right literature, an obsession with Nazi paraphernalia

:42:22.:42:36.

carried out what police and prosecutors called an act

:42:37.:42:38.

of terror, repeatedly stabbing and shooting Mrs Cox on the way

:42:39.:42:41.

to her constituency surgery in Birstall in West Yorkshire.

:42:42.:42:43.

West Yorkshire Police have told us this morning that they are looking

:42:44.:42:46.

for an accomplice who supplied the gun to Thomas Mair.

:42:47.:42:49.

They say that gun was stolen along with ammunition

:42:50.:42:55.

from a car in August last year, but that they don't

:42:56.:42:58.

believe Mair himself was behind the theft.

:42:59.:42:59.

In Brighton is the Labour MP Peter Kyle who was

:43:00.:43:02.

Like her, he worked in the charity sector before becoming

:43:03.:43:08.

Hello. How do you react to the sentence first of all? Relief,

:43:09.:43:19.

firstly. Relief primarily for the family that they can know that the

:43:20.:43:22.

justice system worked and they did a great job. The judge, in reading his

:43:23.:43:28.

summing up statement yesterday, I think he did a really good job of

:43:29.:43:31.

giving relief to the family, making sure that he could face the

:43:32.:43:37.

criminal, the murderer, and say some really tough things to him and make

:43:38.:43:41.

sure he pointed out that it was Jo Cox he was the patria and not him. I

:43:42.:43:44.

think it is important that we hear these things from people in serious

:43:45.:43:54.

situations like this. I am not as forgiving and gracious as Brendan,

:43:55.:43:59.

Jo Cox's husband, who I thought was absolutely beautiful in his response

:44:00.:44:02.

and the dignity that he and the family showed was remarkable and the

:44:03.:44:06.

heart goes out to them today. Do you believe it was an act of terror? I

:44:07.:44:14.

think to say it was an act of terror and put it on the scale of things

:44:15.:44:18.

like what is going on in Syria and in Aleppo at this time, and to

:44:19.:44:23.

compare them to the IRA in the past and things like that, I think that

:44:24.:44:28.

would somehow take away the personal responsibility that this man had and

:44:29.:44:32.

needs to take responsibility for, his own actions. He did this. He

:44:33.:44:38.

chose to do this. He wasn't driven by being instructed by anyone. There

:44:39.:44:43.

was free will involved in this. He is a murderer, murderer, and he is

:44:44.:44:47.

now behind bars for the rest of his life and I and I hope I never have

:44:48.:44:51.

to mention his name for as long as I live. Tell us about working with Jo

:44:52.:44:59.

Cox. Jo was a remarkable person. Only a few of us in Parliament were

:45:00.:45:04.

front line aid workers before Angie and I bonded very quickly after

:45:05.:45:10.

going in. We had a lot of mutual friends and shared experiences so we

:45:11.:45:14.

spoke very quickly and we talked a lot about foreign affairs and we

:45:15.:45:17.

work together in the run-up to the Syria vote earlier this year. We

:45:18.:45:20.

would spend hours and hours into the early hours of the morning working

:45:21.:45:23.

together trying to understand and challenge each other and get under

:45:24.:45:27.

the hood of all the issues. We went to see ministers together. We had a

:45:28.:45:32.

close working relationship. She was very maternal, great fun, intensely

:45:33.:45:36.

bright, and also very ambitious. I think we need to see her in the

:45:37.:45:39.

round and celebrate the fact that she was an ambitious politician who

:45:40.:45:42.

brought warmth, humanity and maternal spirit to the job, and that

:45:43.:45:47.

is why so many people connected with her when they found out about her

:45:48.:45:51.

life sadly after her murder. Thank you for coming on the programme.

:45:52.:45:53.

Should clubs in the UK test the drugs nightclub

:45:54.:45:57.

In Switzerland clubbers can drop drugs off mid week to get them

:45:58.:46:03.

Police there say it's saving lives and there are some calls for it

:46:04.:46:08.

One of the country's leading police chiefs says it could be

:46:09.:46:13.

useful and he's talking to the Home Office about it.

:46:14.:46:16.

Last year, ecstasy was linked to 57 deaths here, according to the ONS.

:46:17.:46:19.

Jim Connolly has been to Switzerland to see how it works -

:46:20.:46:22.

we played you his full film earlier, here's a short extract.

:46:23.:46:30.

So, it's a Wednesday in Bern Switzerland.

:46:31.:46:33.

Probably not what you're thinking when you're thinking big nights out

:46:34.:46:35.

in Europe but people here are getting ready for a Friday,

:46:36.:46:38.

They're going to be dropping drugs off in this anonymous

:46:39.:46:41.

The only reason you'd know what it is, is this

:46:42.:46:46.

Nick is one of the councillors who runs the centre.

:46:47.:46:56.

This guy is the first to drop off his drugs and he'll

:46:57.:46:59.

A short counselling session is compulsory if you

:47:00.:47:02.

How does it feel talking about your drug use?

:47:03.:47:05.

No, not that much because everybody talks about that.

:47:06.:47:08.

So, everyone knows drugs and knows how it is to be on drugs,

:47:09.:47:12.

Nick can't handle the drugs being dropped off.

:47:13.:47:15.

What do you think you've dropped off?

:47:16.:47:18.

You think you dropped off an ecstasy tablet?

:47:19.:47:21.

So that I know that I don't take anything that isn't good

:47:22.:47:34.

Ecstasy isn't good, because it's a drug,

:47:35.:47:37.

At least there is not something that shouldn't be in MDMA.

:47:38.:47:42.

Will you feel safer, because of that drug being tested?

:47:43.:47:47.

As long as I know that it's ecstasy and not something different,

:47:48.:47:54.

Because I already make the risk that it could do me

:47:55.:48:01.

It's Thursday and we've come to meet Hans, who runs this drug-testing lab

:48:02.:48:10.

Hi, Hans, nice to meet you. Hi.

:48:11.:48:13.

It tests anything from stuff you can buy in your pharmacy,

:48:14.:48:15.

The testing is being done today by Fabian.

:48:16.:48:20.

This is the pill we saw being handed in last night.

:48:21.:48:23.

Some people would say you're encouraging drug use,

:48:24.:48:32.

by giving people results about what's in their drugs.

:48:33.:48:35.

Those people that show up in our facilities, they already

:48:36.:48:38.

And with our programme, we have here, I say,

:48:39.:48:48.

if we can just prevent one person being brought to the emergency

:48:49.:48:55.

room of the hospital, it's worth all the cost.

:48:56.:48:59.

You're going to get the results, what have we found?

:49:00.:49:08.

And that is a very, very strong reading?

:49:09.:49:11.

Yeah, we give a warning when it's over 120 million

:49:12.:49:17.

But what do people heading clubbing in the area think?

:49:18.:49:22.

When you have the possibility to use the service, so you know

:49:23.:49:26.

And I think it's a better feeling when you know what you take.

:49:27.:49:32.

I have one strict other website where you can, like, if you buy

:49:33.:49:35.

If there's any dangerous drugs around, they warn you about it.

:49:36.:49:42.

It's your decision if you take drugs.

:49:43.:49:48.

I think it's more safe if you take drugs that are tested.

:49:49.:49:58.

Let's speak to George Hull, owner of Bloc nightclub in Hackney Wick

:49:59.:50:01.

in London Fiona Spargo-Mabbs, her son Daniel died of a fatal

:50:02.:50:04.

Her family opened the Daniel Spargo-Mabbs foundation

:50:05.:50:13.

after his death which runs drugs awareness programmes for schools.

:50:14.:50:16.

And in Salford is Fiona Measham, Leading campaigner for open drugs

:50:17.:50:22.

testing in the UK, she tests the drugs for purity and also

:50:23.:50:25.

Welcome all of you. Fiona, tell us about the MDMA drug your son took?

:50:26.:50:39.

The drug Dan took was incredibly strong. He was 167, went out with a

:50:40.:50:44.

group of boys. I thought he was at a party, actually they went to the

:50:45.:50:47.

other side of London to an illegal rave, five of them took MDMA, the

:50:48.:50:54.

keep coo that's in ecstasy and Dan's happened to be incredibly strong and

:50:55.:50:59.

he died from multiple organ failure a couple of days later -- he was 16.

:51:00.:51:03.

How do you cope with that? I don't know. You just have one day that

:51:04.:51:10.

follows another really. From that, we, because Dan was who he was, you

:51:11.:51:18.

know, he was bright, popular, kind, he had was just Dan, you know, we

:51:19.:51:22.

thought if it could happen to him it could happen to anybody. We found

:51:23.:51:26.

out a back story of the influence and persuasion of people around him

:51:27.:51:29.

and we thought actually it really could be anybody and we wanted to do

:51:30.:51:33.

anything that we could to make sure that other young people had the

:51:34.:51:35.

information and understanding that they needed to make sure that they

:51:36.:51:39.

kept themselves safe from any kind of harm from drugs.

:51:40.:51:44.

If that drug had been tested, he would have known how dangerous it

:51:45.:51:48.

was? Yes. Yes. You don't know if that would have stopped him from

:51:49.:51:54.

taking it. If he knew it was going to kill him, he wouldn't have taken

:51:55.:52:00.

it. That's why the testing Fiona's done is so brilliant. You need to

:52:01.:52:03.

understand it's not just to know that that's got that much MDMA, you

:52:04.:52:08.

need to know the effect of it, and whether it could be lethal. Whether

:52:09.:52:12.

the teenage boys would have had their drug tests we don't know.

:52:13.:52:17.

Fiona, tell us a bit about what the loop does? We have been going for

:52:18.:52:21.

the past three years or so into nightclubs and testing

:52:22.:52:24.

behind-the-scenes and this summer we introduced front of house testing.

:52:25.:52:29.

By that I mean we were testing drugs users brought to us. We'd give them

:52:30.:52:36.

a unique number, do a barrage of tests, they'd come back and have a

:52:37.:52:39.

harm reduction package, talking about that particular drug and the

:52:40.:52:43.

risks of it, as well as a broader picture in relation to their own

:52:44.:52:54.

drugs history and possibly be talked to about the combinations of alcohol

:52:55.:52:58.

for example in combination with the drugs. George, what do you think of

:52:59.:53:02.

that approach? I've been a promoter for about ten years or so running

:53:03.:53:07.

big festivals and dance events so I guess you could say I've been on the

:53:08.:53:14.

front line of enforcement, also harm reduction, looking after people

:53:15.:53:17.

who've chosen to conceal drugs and take them to events. I would favour

:53:18.:53:23.

a move towards helping with the harm rereduction side of things. If you

:53:24.:53:31.

accept that enforcers can work with prohibition, it can never be 100%

:53:32.:53:35.

effective, you move into the next phase which is harm reduction and

:53:36.:53:38.

something like having a better understanding of what is contained

:53:39.:53:44.

in drugs so that you can be sure, you know, what people are taking,

:53:45.:53:48.

whether it's extremely pure, maybe very impure. But you are never going

:53:49.:53:54.

to know that. Even if - Fiona, you are absolutely for educating school

:53:55.:53:58.

children, pupils in schools about the dangers of things like MDAM -

:53:59.:54:02.

you know, they could have all the information in the world, then you

:54:03.:54:05.

are in a club with your friends. I know. You are the person who goes,

:54:06.:54:11.

it's not going the happen to me, I'm invincible, I'm 16, my life is ahead

:54:12.:54:15.

of me? We also talk about life skills and understanding peer

:54:16.:54:18.

influence, also the way that your brain develops, you are more likely

:54:19.:54:22.

to take risks as a teenager if you are being watched by your peers. To

:54:23.:54:26.

a certain extent that's just the way it is, but with more

:54:27.:54:30.

self-consciousness about your decision-making and being able to

:54:31.:54:35.

use the bits of your brain that can retain information, bring to bear

:54:36.:54:39.

the bits that aren't developed and making decisions on it. I say to

:54:40.:54:45.

youngsters, it's never an easy decision, it's a social environment,

:54:46.:54:49.

you are with people you know, like, trust and opinions you respect and

:54:50.:54:52.

you might have had a couple of drinks and your decision-making

:54:53.:54:55.

isn't clear. It's never an easy decision but we can only do what we

:54:56.:55:02.

can do. Yes. Fiona Measham where are you on this, if you offer this

:55:03.:55:06.

upfront drugs testing which has happened in a couple of festivals

:55:07.:55:13.

already and you have done it at various venues, if you you ever

:55:14.:55:18.

offer the service, people say you are encouraging it? We are dealing

:55:19.:55:24.

with a pragmatic situation. It might be that the dealers don't even know

:55:25.:55:28.

what is in the drugs they have been sold. We have tested and found acid

:55:29.:55:34.

being sold as cocaine, we have found tablets have been sold as cocaine

:55:35.:55:40.

that aren't cocaine and we have found 100% concrete ecstasy tablets

:55:41.:55:42.

so this is the information we can get out to people. We found one

:55:43.:55:46.

fifth of the people that came to us asked us to dispose of the drugs,

:55:47.:55:50.

that they didn't want to take them at all, so they were engaging

:55:51.:55:55.

seriously with the service but were also pretty horrified at what they

:55:56.:55:59.

were being sold. An e-mail from Anne - I don't think she's pulling my leg

:56:00.:56:03.

- I'm going to stick my neck out, she says every year I go to Ibiza

:56:04.:56:14.

with my daughters, we take drugs, millions of people take E. Let's do

:56:15.:56:20.

harm reduction and do what Zurich does, please, it will not take

:56:21.:56:25.

people take more drugs, humans throughout time have always wanted

:56:26.:56:29.

to get high, let's recognise it and make it safe. I have bought myself a

:56:30.:56:33.

testing kit. Lee says who pays for the drugs to be tested because he

:56:34.:56:39.

says, as a hard-working drug-free taxpayer it better not be me. What

:56:40.:56:45.

do you say to that? The loop is a volunteer service, run by donations

:56:46.:56:48.

and volunteers so individual users don't pay, it's a free service.

:56:49.:56:52.

There is a small donation paid by the event itself out of their

:56:53.:56:56.

profits, then we provide information not just to users but to all on site

:56:57.:57:00.

services, so the police, to medical services. We respond to medical

:57:01.:57:05.

emergencies and can say exactly what is in the substance that might be

:57:06.:57:08.

causing problems and that can help reduce pressure on the NHS. We'd

:57:09.:57:13.

like to see ourselves as saving taxpayering money, not spending it.

:57:14.:57:20.

-- taxpaying money. A viewer says, it's illegal, arrest people for it.

:57:21.:57:24.

What do you say to that? It's the approach the national drugs policy

:57:25.:57:28.

takes but evidently it's not 100% effective and beyond that, there are

:57:29.:57:32.

ways and means of helping to reduce harm and reduce the harm to the

:57:33.:57:36.

individual and harm to society from drugs being consumed. Moves towards

:57:37.:57:42.

drug testing, certain ways of mitigating risk seem very sensible

:57:43.:57:45.

to me. This viewer says we should be safety

:57:46.:57:49.

testing recreational drugs, Governments have been losing the war

:57:50.:57:54.

on drugs for over 40 years leading to unnecessary deaths, time for a

:57:55.:57:57.

more sensible policy. Thank you all very much. Thanks for

:57:58.:58:02.

coming on the programme, George, Fiona and Fiona, thank you very

:58:03.:58:05.

much. Thanks for your company as well today. BBC newsroom live is

:58:06.:58:09.

coming up next. We are back tomorrow at 9, join us then. Thank you.

:58:10.:58:31.

The most daunting of cookery challenges is back.

:58:32.:58:34.

It's not as simple as it first appears, is it?

:58:35.:58:36.

It's going to take a very skilled chef to pull this off to that level.

:58:37.:58:43.

I can't wait to see what they can do.

:58:44.:58:46.

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