26/04/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello. It's Wednesday.

It's 9am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

With a general election six weeks away, voter apathy remains high.

We took two women who don't like politics to spend

I wasn't too sure why the Speaker speaks in that weird voice

And then it made it hard to understand what he was saying.

Right, my name is Kiara and it was like Ki-ar-ra.

We'll bring you that full report in around 15 minutes time.

The puppy farm murders - Surrey Police have been criticised

for returning a collection of shotguns to a man

who went on to kill his partner and her daughter.

We found systematic failings from the local force and also we feel

that there are lessons to be learnt nationally.

And teachers say they're regularly receiving abuse from parents -

and it's driving them away from the profession.

We'll hear from teachers who say parents have

Throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking news

and developing stories and, as always, keen

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning.

Labour has promised to increase pay for NHS staff and scrap tuition fees

for student nurses if it wins the general election.

The party says it will abolish the current cap for staff in England

Labour said the policies would help address staffing shortages

in England that had become a "threat to patients".

Our Political Guru Norman Smith is in Westminster for us now.

Hi Norman, good morning. So, how much will this pay rise be for NHS

staff? Well, Labour are saying they want people in the NHS to get a pay

rise in line with the cost of living. So that means going up, I

guess, in line with inflation which at the moment is around 2.5% and

that, of course, follows years of pay caps and pay freezes. I think it

is seven years of caps and freezes. So, pay in the NHS has gone down

really for a long time. Labour say you have got to reverse that because

people are leaving the NHS. It is undermining staff morale and they're

putting that together with money to ensure that staffing on wards is at

a safe level. They want to set-up a review to decide what is the safe

level for staffing and then to legislate to ensure that wards have

adequate numbers of nurses there. So that too will cost money and they're

suggesting they want to reintroduce student bursaries for people who

want to become nurses. It is a big package, but it is an expensive

package probably runs into billions of pounds. They said that would

address staff shortages. 24,000 nursing vacancies in England. How do

they say they would pay for this then? Well, there we are in foggy

terrain shall we say? At the moment Labour say we can get the money from

reversing some of the tax changes introduced by the Tories

particularly the cut in corporation tax. Now, they say if you reversed

those tax cuts including inheritance tax and lowering the top rate of tax

you could get ?70 billion. There is a big question mark about that

because this money seems to have been spent quite a few times because

we know Labour have committed to reverse tuition fees, renationalise

the railways and reverse various benefit cuts. A load of spending

commitments so the details have to be gone through meticulously, but

Labour are saying when they produce their manifesto it will be fully

funded, but be in no doubt Vic we will be getting our calculators out

and going through the sums to see if they actually add up. Thank you very

much, Norman. More from Norman through the rest of the year and

through the rest of your lives, hopefully.

Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

Surrey Police have been strongly criticised for returning

a collection of shotguns to a man who went on to kill his partner

Christine and Lucy Lee were shot by 82-year-old John Lowe in 2014.

A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission has

highlighted serious failings by the force as our correspondent

This was the moment police arrived at John Lowe's puppy farm

near Farnham to find he'd murdered two women.

He had shot his partner Christine Lee and her daughter Lucy

And nobody would have got near him...

Lowe, who was 82 at the time, was later jailed for life

with the judge's recommendation that he serve at least 25 years.

It emerged that a year before the murders.

Lowe had a number of shotguns seized by Surrey Police,

but the weapons had then been returned to him.

They included the shotgun he used on the two women.

Today, that decision by Surrey Police to hand the guns back

by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

We found systematic failings for the local force and also we feel

that there are lessons to be learned nationally by police forces

to ensure that their firearms licensing teams are up to the job.

Surrey Police have apologised to the family of Christine

and Lucy Lee, saying that the decision to hand

back the shotguns to John Lowe was flawed.

It said one firearms licensing officer had been sacked

Today's report said the death of Christine and Lucy Lee

And that whilst these incidents were rare,

all forces had to check carefully anyone who wanted a gun.

Before 10am, Victoria will be talking to the deputy commissioner

of Surrey Police about that case. Detectives investigating

the disappearance of Madeleine McCann say

they are still pursuing what they describe as "critical

leads" in the case. Next week will mark ten years

since the three-year-old disappeared while on holiday

with her parents in Portugal. Our Home Affairs Correspondent

Tom Symonds reports. A desperate search with the media

following every step. What happened here?

Where is Madeleine McCann? This is still a missing

persons inquiry. Despite 2014's extensive police

searches in Portugal, there is no definitive

evidence she is dead. For six years, with government

money, the Metropolitan Police have been reviewing

everything from scratch. We have a significant line

of inquiry which is worth pursuing and because it's worth pursuing it

could provide an answer but until we've gone through it,

I won't know whether we're And that's all the

police are saying. This investigation was once pursued

by up to 30 officers. Now, there are just four on the case

and a handful of leads. But while there is still something

to investigate, there is still hope. Madeleine's parents have described

the ten year anniversary They've released a statement

promising never to give up. There have been many challenges

and low points along the way, they said, but the warmth,

encouragement and positivity we've experienced from the quiet majority

has undoubtedly sustained us and maintained our faith

in human goodness. This is how Madeleine might have

looked as she has grown up. Her 14th birthday is

the week after next. A former Health Secretary has said

a "criminal cover-up on an industrial scale" took place

over the use of NHS contaminated blood products

in the 1970s and 1980s. More than 2,000 deaths have been

linked to the scandal in which haemophiliacs and others

were infected with Hepatitis C Speaking in the Commons last night,

Andy Burnham said the victims New research in the United States

has found that cases The term is used to describe

when a man removes a condom during sex, despite agreeing

to wear one. The study by Alexandra Brodsky said

it was common practice amongst young But victims' charities have

expressed concern and say it must A husband has been charged

with killing his wife after police said data from her wearable fitness

tracker contradicted Richard Dabate claimed to have

seen his wife Connie shot dead by intruders in the US state

of Connecticut more than an hour before her Fitbit device

recorded her last movements. He will stand trial

for murder later this month. United Airlines is investigating

the death of a giant rabbit, which was being transported on one

of its planes. The 90cm-long bunny called Simon,

similar to this one, was found dead in the cargo hold

when the flight arrived at Chicago's O'Hare Airport

from London Heathrow. United said it was "saddened"

by Simon's death. New research has found that

copying your boss into emails can make everyone else

in the office distrust you. Research undertaken

by Cambridge University traffic found that while it could seem

like a way to increase transparency, the "cc effect" fed a culture

of fear amongst colleagues and many employees saw it

as a potentially threatening move. That's a summary of

the latest BBC News. Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning - Particularly if you're one of those

people who ccs the boss in. And we're heading for the end

of the Premier League season, Chelsea still out in front,

are they stoppable? 4-2 the score. It was while they

were going into half-time, but in injury time, the skipper Gary Cahill

headed Chelsea ahead to ease a few nerves after they lost to Manchester

United ten days ago. A couple of goals from Costa made sure of that

victory. He has been in great form. Cahill, the win was a massive step

towards the title. His team-mate tweeted, "One step closer. Come on,

the Blues." Gary Lineker doesn't think Chelsea are close. He thinks

they are already there. Saying, "Huge win for Chelsea in that march

towards the title." Here is what their manager had to say last night.

You must be ready for this mental effort. Not only physical effort,

but also mental effort, but yeah, it is not easy, but we are fighting and

we are ready to fight from now until the end.

So Tim, Tottenham seven points behind again,

they take on Crystal Palace tonight and that won't be

It won't at all, Vic. It will be really hard for them. Palace are in

the best form of their season. Trying to survive in the Premier

League, they've beaten, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. They won at

Anfield at the weekend and two of the games were away from home that

they won, including Chelsea as well. Spurs have the likes of Harry Kane

and Dele Alli. They will hope the two stars can deliver at Selhurst

Park and reduce the deficit with five games remaining.

Now Tim, I believe there was a rather proud parent

watching our programme yesterday, tell us more.

Just a bit, Victoria. This was an unexpected surprise. As much as we

love Sir Rod Stewart, this want about Sir Rod, it was about a dad

being very proud of his son. After we reported that Liam Stewart scored

for Great Britain's ice hockey team yesterday morning, we didn't expect

this to surface. PRESENTER: Great Britain's ice

hockey players won their second game in their World Championship group

beating Estonia 5-1 in Belfast last night when Liam Stewart,

the son of music legend Sir Rod Stewart and son of former

model Rachel Hunter, Britain join Japan and

Lithuania at the top I love it. Can we play it again? Can

we play it again, please? PRESENTER: Great Britain's ice

hockey players won their second game in their World Championship group

beating Estonia 5-1 in Belfast last night when Liam Stewart,

the son of music legend Sir Rod Stewart and son of former

model Rachel Hunter, Britain join Japan and

Lithuania at the top OK, so with a general election

in six weeks time you're going to be hearing quite a bit about election

issues that matter to you like the NHS, like Brexit,

like education, immigration, Yet new research out today

suggests that voter apathy Most of us aren't all that

engaged in politics, just a third of us are satisfied

with the system we have for governing the country

and the vast majority think we have So we took two people,

who're not really bothered by politics, don't think it

represents them, and between them have only voted once,

bear in mind one is aged 26 and one is 36,

to spend a day in parliament. It's where our 650 elected MPs

and our 805 unelected Lords come to debate and eventually legislate

how our country is run. So if you could spend a day here

and walk in their shoes, could you? My name's Latifa, I'm 26 years old,

I'm a graduate and I run My name's Kiara, I'm married, I have

to children, a boy and a girl, My name's Kiara, I'm married, I have

two children, a boy and a girl, When you look at the building

opposite us, what do you think? I feel that politicians make

decisions for people they don't Because a lot of the lives

people live are nothing They're the ones making

all the decisions for all these people and it kind of grinds my

gears a bit. I'm sure they work very hard,

but I don't think it's probably worth what they earn, because I

think if they had to live a year on an average person's wage,

I'm not sure they would be able I would like to know more

about Parliament, so I can start to vote because I currently don't

vote because I don't understand what I'm voting for,

so I don't vote. I hope I will have more

of an understanding of what MPs do because I do think they are slated

a lot in the press, so it would be nice to have my own opinion

of what they do and what happens. Their first stop is the Commons

chamber with former Work and Pensions Secretary,

Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith. Here you are actually,

literally in a bearpit, when it's very noisy and when people

are angry and you disagree Sometimes you might see

from television pictures people standing up and sitting down

and standing up and sitting down. That's because when someone finishes

speaking, those who want to speak stand up and the Speaker can see

them and he'll decide You really are a very

over-excitable individual! You need to write out a thousand

times, "I will behave myself It's called the Speaker

because his original title, If there's an announcement to be

made by the Commons, or in the old days when the monarchy

was much stronger and they basically were the government and Parliament

was just Parliament, the Speaker was the one who used

to have to have the difficult Particularly if the parliament

decided they didn't The Speaker was the one who actually

had to go and tell them. And if the monarch didn't like it,

they normally took it out on the Speaker, so lots of Speakers

have lost their heads! This is where the Prime

Minister will stand Or I was a Secretary of State

until I resigned a year and a bit ago now, and I would have stood

here when I was Secretary of State Let me just say to the honourable

gentleman, perhaps he would like to keep quiet and listen

for once to somebody who knows If it's a full front bench,

it will be the Prime Minister sitting here and they will

then have next to them and the Home Secretary,

some of the more senior members of government will be here and then

the bench fills out. And the rest is all backbenchers

who support the government. We have a peculiar way

of speaking to each other Which is I don't refer to you,

I refer to the honourable or right honourable lady,

that would be you, or member. And the reason for that is I speak

to you in the third person because is very difficult to be

personally abusive, although some people can manage it quite well,

in the third person. That bench over there is where

the official opposition sits, that's where the opposition shadow

ministers or the Leader I was Leader of the Opposition

once, a long time ago. It's actually the most difficult job

ever, because you have none of the support that the government

gets from civil servants And the man with the hardest

job ever, according is Leader of the Opposition,

Labour's Jeremy Corbyn. Do you feel Parliament

represents you or do you feel I suppose no, we don't really feel

it does represent us because we don't understand

how it works. No, that's the thing, you don't

learn about politics at school. And I personally think maybe

people should be educated Yeah, because it's effecting your

life and then you grow up and you're told to vote, but a lot of people

don't even really know Can I ask you, so, as the Leader

of the Opposition, if you wanted to bring a policy in place

and obviously your party is not in power at the moment,

so something like the raising of the minimum wage,

is it something you can take to the Houses of Parliament and say,

I want to enforce this, Or is that something that can't

happen, unless you are in power? We would try to introduce it

through amendments to the budget or amendments to minimum

wage legislation so we The chances of winning in Parliament

are obviously reduced when there's a Conservative

majority, but we would use every When I left me I was basically told

that if I'm not pregnant or Eamonn or eight drug addict or basically

there's something wrong with me, they can't help me with housing. I

can see why the council would tell you that. They have huge pressure on

them. They have to deliver priorities and say, the priority is

this. But it's wrong. We've really got to move the debate on. Are you

enjoying your visit? Yeah, I am, but, literally, I'm oblivious to...

Politics, and stuff, so that's why I don't have as much questions as

Kiara. Politics affects lives. You had a housing issue, you're quite

right, that a political decision. A medical decision to build council

housing or not, political decision to regulate and rents or not, that's

politics. Politics matters. Yeah, it does. More people need to be

educated on it. I agree. I think we will agree on that. We agree on lots

of things, I'm sure but on that, I absolutely get that. Educate young

people. The kids are the next generation. Just as we were

finishing with Jeremy Corbyn, a storm had started to brew of

Westminster. We are live in Downing Street

where the Prime Minister is due to make a significant announcement

in the next 15 minutes. One unconfirmed source tells

the BBC, Theresa May is poised to announce a snap general election

on June 8th. I have just chaired a meeting

of the Cabinet, where we agreed that the government should call

a general election to be At this moment of enormous

national significance, there should be unity

here in Westminster The shock announcement

was made just an hour ago. Britain will go to the

polls in seven weeks. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

has welcomed the move, saying it gives the British people

the chance to vote for a government that will put the interests

of the majority first. My name's Clive, Clive Lewis,

I'm the Labour MP for Norwich South. I mean, it is history in the making,

you are here from history with me as the general election,

this is live breaking news. This is a big story because now,

Parliament will be dissolved at some point and the general election

will begin to take place. I hope you both voted and if you're

not, you're going to be, because this is going to determine

your lives, your futures, that of your children,

your family and your community. It;s a very, very big vote

and I think one of the reasons it is probably happening is,

as you said, Brexit. I think also many MPs,

myself included, I think we are keen to have a new mandate

from our constituents because so much has happened

since the last election, since the referendum was voted for,

voted on, and the result. And taking us out of the EU,

possibly not getting a trade deal, all of the things that come

with that, these are massive constitutional changes in a way,

constitutional level changes. A lot of people find it difficult

to decide who to vote for and you said Theresa May said

she wasn't going to raise the Isn't that, like, can't people

question her integrity because she said she wasn't

going to do something I think some people, yeah,

some people will question Theresa May's integrity,

because she said she wouldn't call a general election but I haven't

seen the statement she has made, but I imagine she is saying that

so much has happened I say to the members opposite,

if they do not respect the democratic will of the Scottish

people to remain in the EU, it will be the beginning of the end

of this disunited kingdom. Hannah Bardell is one

of Westminster's newest MPs. She joined the Commons in 2015

along with 55 others They are meeting in Portcullis

House, a modern annexe So becoming a new MP,

how was it like when you first came in, on your first day

and stuff like that? It was quite intimidating,

quite emotional. What's it like, the first time

you sit in the House of Commons? I think everybody says,

when they go in, it's a lot And I can remember the first

Prime Minister's Questions I sat in on, you don't feel that

on television, you don't hear the noise, but the unbelievable

wall of noise that comes at you from the opposition benches,

just the volume was so huge. This place is designed

to intimidate you and I think a lot of us just felt,

no, we're not going to be intimidated, we're here to do a job,

we're going to get on with it I mean, obviously, you want

to separate your country from ours, so do you have different issues,

when you come into Westminster? My party believes in independence

for Scotland, we believe that decisions about Scotland

and Scottish people are best made So if the SNP are trying

to become independent, is it essentially having your own

Prime Minister as well? We have a First Minister

at the moment but yes, essentially. So, would you still have

seats in Westminster? So I'm working to put

myself out of the job! Right at the heart of this place

is the debate in the Commons. It's where MPs get to hold

ministers to account. But today, debate is dominated

by the election and Leader of the Commons David Livingstone

takes the helm. On Wednesday the 19th of April,

the House will be asked to approve a motion that allows my right

honourable friend the Prime Minister to seek an early parliamentary

general election under the Fixed Mr Speaker, I'm also concerned

the Prime Minister chose to make her statement outside number

ten rather than come to the House. The leader of the house has given us

an image of the Prime Minister being dragged kicking and screaming

into calling a general election Mr Speaker, this is quite one

of the most extraordinary U-turns It is absolutely right

that the statement was first made to the British people,

not to this House, because it is they who are being asked

to use their sovereign A lot of people were talking about

the general election, did you follow that? A little bit, we figured out

it was on the 8th of June. Midnight on the 2nd of May, one minute past

on the 2nd of May, into the 3rd of May... That's when parliament will

be dissolved. I wasn't too sure why this speaker speaks in that weird

voice. Yeah. When he calls up people's names. It made it hard to

understand what he was saying. Sometimes it was really deep

and I was like, why? It just looks like a lot

of infighting in amongst the people that are supposed to be

running our country. The Select Committee is a place

where MPs and Lords examine the work of government departments,

take evidence and write reports. Today they are talking fashion

and how Brexit will effect this Are you confident that

London's in a robust place? Conservative MP Damian Collins

is the chair and Caroline Rush from the British Fashion Council

is one of three experts We are seen as the global capital

of Europe if you like and it's very important for us as a country

and an industry that we Our job is to hold the government

to account but holding a particular So in our case, the Department

for Culture, Media and Sport. We can run enquiries or hold

hearings on any issue that is related to the work

of that government department. What we try and do is look

at the issues and decide as the group what we think

is the right thing to do. We then produce reports,

which get sent to the government and the government has to respond

to the reports. So the three people who were sitting

opposite you today, So they are witnesses who were

called to give evidence to us. Today's hearing was an enquiry

on the impact of Brexit We have had sessions talking

to the film industry, people in television,

and today on that panel we were talking to people

from the fashion industry. It's quite reassuring to know that

you actually use outside evidence, not just kind of assuming how

it is and making That's right and it's

really important. Now I understand that if they need

to gather more information, they are talking to people

who are directly being affected by these things, people

who are in the fashion industry and getting a greater understanding

of exactly what the issues are and how they

consult those issues. Which I assume they then

take that information to go into the House of Commons

and argue there or to bring in legislation or bills

and how to change things. How did the reality of today differ

from your expectations? It was better than I

thought it would be. It was much more eye-opening

than I thought it would be, It was massively different

than I expected it to be, I have come away now feeling

I've got a good grasp of how politics works,

But it is complex. You both found everything today very

easy and comfortable and understandable except

the Commons, that's the bit you both still really

struggled with, that debate. It's just really hard to follow,

all the language and the traditions It didn't really make much sense

so it was hard to understand Even though we've been

here for a whole day, you can't really understand it

in a whole day, you still need more. You said that by the end of the day

you wanted to know who to vote You didn't know that an election

would be called today! But you said you wanted to know

by the end of the day who you would Do you now know who

you would vote for? Yes, I do know who I would vote

for and I can say that being here today, I now can say that

I will confidently vote I have a greater understanding of a

machine app's job entails. It doesn't sound much fun. I don't

think they get much thanks for it. They must have to be passionate

about what they're doing in order to want to do that as a job. Also I've

learnt as well, it is a two-way street. It is not just about the

politician and what happens in Parliament. It's what the public and

the people do on their part as well. If we don't challenge them, they

can't make changes on our behalf. So you feel empowered basically? I

do, yes. Christine on Facebook says, "Please

use your vote." Helen says, "Well done, hopefully more will see this

film and become actively engaged in who makes the decisions affecting

them." Jane says, "Please use your vote. So many countries around the

world don't have this luxury. This is the only way we can put forward

our views and change things. Last year proved that when many went to

vote in the referendum who had never voted before." Linda on Facebook,

"I'm playing that many people who haven't voted before, will do so at

this election. Their votes could change things for our country. You

have got six weeks to find out which party has the policies to make our

country better." Pete says, "Vote for who? Give us someone that's

worthy. Corbyn is an idiot. The Tories are too elitist. Ukip with

Nuttall is taking it the wrong way. I have to vote Conservative because

the rest will try to crush democracy."

Your views are very welcome. We'll be talking live

to Latifah Atkinson and Kiara Stone If you want to watch that film

again you can find it The next six weeks on this programme

during the general election are - actually like every other week

of the year - but even more so during the general

election campaign - all about you and the things that

matter to you as you go If you have stories or issues that

you feel aren't being reported, if you want to take part in TV

discussions and have the chance to talk directly to politicians

about their policies or maybe you think you might not vote

because politicians "are all you think you might not vote

because politicians "they are all Let me know and we'll

see what we can do. E-mail [email protected]

with your contact details and ideas for stories and the things

you want us to cover. Teachers say it is not just pupils

they are getting abuse from, but parents too. For some, it means they

are walking away from the profession.

And the scandal of tainted blood that caused the deaths

We've reported on this before, now there's a call

Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

Labour has promised to increase pay for NHS staff and scrap tuition fees

for student nurses if it wins the general election.

The party says it will abolish the current cap for staff in England

Labour said the policies would help address staffing shortages

in England that had become a "threat to patients".

Surrey Police have been strongly criticised for returning

a collection of shotguns to a man who went on to kill his

Christine and Lucy Lee were shot by 82-year-old John Lowe in 2014.

A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission has

highlighted serious failings by the force and said the way

firearms are licensed across the country needs

Detectives investigating the disappearance of

Madeleine McCann say they are still pursuing

what they describe as "critical leads" in the case.

Next week will mark ten years since the three-year-old

disappeared while on holiday with her parents in Portugal.

Officers have confirmed that four people considered as possible

suspects in 2013 have been ruled out.

A former Health Secretary has said a "criminal cover-up

on an industrial scale" took place over the use of NHS

contaminated blood products in the 1970s and 1980s.

More than 2,000 deaths have been linked to the scandal

in which haemophiliacs and others were infected with Hepatitis C

Speaking in the Commons last night, Andy Burnham said the victims

New research in the United States has found that cases

The term is used to describe when a man removes a condom

during sex, despite agreeing to wear one.

The study by Alexandra Brodsky said it was common practice amongst young

But victims' charities have expressed concern and say it

A husband has been charged with killing his wife after police

said data from her wearable fitness tracker contradicted

Richard Dabate claimed to have seen his wife Connie shot dead

by intruders in the US state of Connecticut more than an hour

before her Fitbit device recorded her last movements.

Dabate is currently on bail pending a trial.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 10.00am.

Thank you very much. A tweet from Good on your last film.

Good says, "Voters need to know how voting affects the country. Not the

workings of the Commons where oldies shout at each other." We will talk

to some youngies after 10am. Chelsea beat Southampton to move

seven-points clear at the top Diego Costa scored twice in a 4-2

victory and captain Gary Cahill says But second places Spurs are aiming

to close the gap tonight. They're away to a Crystal Palace

who've already beaten Arsenal, Maria Sharapova is back playing

tennis today after her 15 month The former Wimbledon champion

is a controversial wild card Ronnie O'Sullivan spent a lot

of time sitting down during his world snooker

quarter-final against Ding Junhui, who took a 10-6 lead,

but The Rocket did come back with a century break in the last

frame of the session. They resume at 2.30pm,

and it'll be live on BBC Two. We know that some teachers have

to deal with abusive, or even at times violent, pupils,

but new research suggests that three in ten teachers have

experienced abuse at the hands That's according to a survey

of nearly 10,000 teachers led by Bath Spa University,

which found a quarter of primary teachers and a fifth of secondary

teachers experience some kind Abuse ranged from online

messages to confrontation We can speak to three teachers

who have experienced Charlotte, not her real name,

is a reception teacher That's teaching the youngest

class in primary school. She was forced to take

four months off work after experiencing harassment

from a parent. She's asked to remain anonymous

because she's worried about possible She's asked us to change her

name, also because of Ian Fenn is a headteacher

at Burnage Academy Also with us is Dr Jermaine

Ravalier, senior Lecturer in psychology at Bath Spa University,

who conducted the research. Welcome all of you. Charlotte. Let

me begin with you. You experienced in your very first teaching job

serial harassment and abuse from one parent. Give our audience an insight

into what was going on? Well, it started off just like little things

like every few days there would be something that was the matter with

something that was going on at school, her child was experiencing

and things like that and it built up over the months to daily, every

morning, it would be first thing that I'd hear when I'd open up the

school gates. There would be a huge big problem and it would amount from

the smallest of things that maybe, it was a passing comment maybe to

her child as a joke. You tend to do that with four-year-olds and it

would cause a big catastrophe that would take me between 15 minutes to

the first 45 minutes just to sort it out. So far, not necessarily

harassment though. Not so far. Inconvenient. Yeah, it does start to

affect like the children and the working day when that's the first 45

minutes of your working day that's been taken up and then it led to

comments on social media being made. Like what? Like Facebook statuses

about potential things that the school had done that she didn't

agree with, but instead of coming to the school, it was just plastered

all over Facebook. And that was brought to our attention by numerous

other parents who had taken a picture of it and sent it in. Was it

abusive or not? It was. It was directed at maybe like comments I'd

made which, were not negative or anything particularly... You felt

like you were being continually picked on? Yes, it was just chipping

away and then it got to a point where I would be having just a

conversation with another parent at the end of the day and this

particular parent would stand behind me and would loudly comment that she

was waiting for me to talk to me about something very serious indeed.

Then it got to a point where she followed another member of staff out

of the school and directly asked her questions about the classroom and

the environment and me as a teacher and the support staff. So taken in

isolation, none of that is the end of the world, but the effect had an

impact on you, professionally and personally. Quickly describe that?

So, it chipped away at me for four months. At the start of my career,

I've put everything I can into this career and you get to a point where

actually at the end of that first-term, you feel that there was

nothing that you could do and nothing I could say that was ever

good enough for this parent and it affected my health hugely. It

started off with just general worrying about kind of doing the

best and it turned quickly into anxiety, and the stress. There is a

lot of pressures in the profession anyway on top of having a parent

that you know starts off making comments and then kind of, puts it

all on social media and you worry about other parents and what they

would say and other staff members might say and think. Thank you,

Charlotte. Let me bring in Ian Fenn. You say both verbal and physical

abuse is a fact of life on an almost weekly basis. Tell us the worst

incident you've come across as a head? Well, I mean, I think in many

schools you will have situations where a parent will come on the

premises. They will pose a risk to students because they're seeking

some sort of confrontation with a child who might have had an argument

with their child. This happened to me quite recently. I brought that

person to the front of the school. I attended and this gentleman, who

just come out of prison, was extremely threatening and abusive.

Fortunately, I had staff with me. We're trained to deescalate these

situations and before the police came, clearly the gentleman, you

know, was gauging how long he could be abusive for. He disappeared. How

long have you been in teaching? Well, I have been teaching since

1978 and I have been the head of this school for 17 years. Do you

think this behaviour from parents is getting worse and if you do, why?

Oh, it is certainly getting worse. It tends to go in cycles and in my

experience here, it is linked to the state of society. In 2001 when I

first came here, until Manchester there was significant gang problems,

the streets weren't as safe as they later became and that was reflected

in relationships with parents and other relatives. Not just parents.

It can be cousins, brothers, you know, a range of people. And it

improved as society became more cohesive. The gangs were broken up

and employment was better. Then after the crash and the cuts in the

public services, there has been to me, a connected cause of between the

kind of confrontation and abuse that we get from a small minority, but

nevertheless frequent situation with parents and that relates with the

way in which Manchester generally seems to be less safe and less

cohesive and with more problems. That's an interesting take on I

suspect Greater Manchester Police must challenge you on that. They are

not he and I cannot speak for them. That is your view. I will ask you,

Jermaine about your research and his view, the headteacher, but it might

somehow be linked to cuts in public services. Job security, that sort of

thing, that's his view. I think it's hard for me from the research I've

done, to contribute it to the cuts in the public services and that kind

of thing, that is not what we looked at. We looked at other causes of

stress amongst teachers, why does this happen? The headteacher may be

right, it could be down to austerity and that kind of thing but that's

not something we looked at, it is not something I can comment on. It

is a wide scale problem. It is. We found about one third of teachers

are exposed to these negative behaviours either online or school

premises. What parents playing at? It is not all parents, it is a

minority. It is not all parents, of course, but the ones who are doing

it... Of course. It is unacceptable. As we would all agree. Nora, what's

your view, you are in a supply teacher you experience different

kind of schools, why is this more of a problem, why is this problem with

parents growing when it comes to confrontation and abuse to teachers?

I think it's more so in primary than in secondary, I've taught in both.

With primary, there is more access to the morning and afternoon. I

think it's because there's no real policies of making appointments with

the class teacher that is in force. It is like a free for all a lot of

the time. I've had physical... Someone physically push me aside. He

was quite a big guy. So he could get into the classroom to get a

worksheet. In most schools, the policy is that a parent cannot go

unaccompanied into the classroom back into the school. Physically,

someone witnessed it, there was nothing I could do. I was left

humiliated in front of the whole of the playground. You've got all the

parents, all the children, so one. In some places, it can be very

worrying -- so on. I was teaching and I would get towards the end of

the day and I would start worrying about the end of the day because

then I would go out. That could be an anxious time, going out to meet

the parents and a lot of the time you don't know what you are meeting,

what will happen, what they will come out with. You are completely

unprepared. It is that expectation that is anxious. At the end of the

day I would wait ten minutes and then I would go to the toilet, where

there were senior management. I would sit down and almost shake for

5-10 minutes, hoping all the parents had left the whole building said

they aren't looking for you. Some people will be watching saying,

brutal as it sounds, you might not be tough enough to be teachers. What

would you say to that? There are times when something can be put in

place and should be followed. These are the parents who know the rules,

they don't follow them. They might be required to make an appointment

and you know what it's about, you and they can come prepared, there

can be another person there, a headteacher or another member of

teaching staff and you can have... Civilised. What would you say,

Charlotte? I would probably add on, from my point of view, teachers are

human beings too. Most teachers, anyone who works with people, always

going to be very empathetic people. You do care, especially, for me, I

work with four and five-year-old children, I am a caring person and I

take my job extremely seriously. At the end of the day, like Laura said,

there is a lot of access to teachers. I don't think it's OK. I

had an incident where a parent came into my classroom and pointed at

another child, who at this point, is four years old and declares, this

child is bullying her four-year-olds. That was completely

inappropriate. If that is dealt with in another matter, that would have

been better. OK. Thank you very much, thank you for coming on the

programme. Have a good day. Surrey Police have been strongly

criticised for returning a collection of shotguns to a man

who went on to kill his Christine and Lucy Lee were shot

by 82-year-old John Lowe in 2014. A report by the Independent Police

Complaints Commission has highlighted serious failings

by the force and made recommendations to improve firearms

licensing across the country. Surrey says one officer has been

sacked, and another has retired. Lucy made this 999 call just moments

before she was killed and just a warning, you may find

the audio distressing. If you don't want children to hear,

now is the time to turn the volume down. This call lasts for about just

under 20 seconds. Earlier I spoke to Detective Chief

Constable Gavin Stevens from Surrey Police. He told us about his regret

in not stopping John Lowe. One police staff member was dismissed

following a gross misconduct hearing. Another police staff member

retired before the investigation and report concluded. Mike at the

beginning of this, I to say that this is clearly a very tragic case

and our thoughts remain with the family and friends of Christine and

Lucy Lee. You sacked one staff member, were they a police officer?

No, the individuals involved in the decision in this case were police

staff members. The Independent Police Complaints Commission of

course would look at everybody involved in this case, without fear

or favour. And reach their findings independently. Two to staff members

were criticised by the Independent report. You sacked one of them, one

was allowed to retire, have you been able to call back their pension at

all? That is not clearly a decision for the force and normal employment

rules apply. With any other profession. Members. Do you accept

they managed to escape sanction by retiring? No. That's a matter for

legislators, for Parliament to decide, those rules. But what

-- what is your opinion? Did this staff member escape punishment

effectively by retiring? In policing, become to work each day to

save life and protect them from rubble. In this case, we clearly

failed in that duty. -- protect the vulnerable. That causes deep regret

to what has happened here. In March 2013, following concerns raise to

us, we seized these shotguns and there was a three-month

investigation, the end of which a decision was taken to return them.

It was clearly the wrong decision. There wasn't a thorough risk

assessments done. The information gathered from medical practitioners

and systems was thoroughly assessed and a wrong decision was taken at

seven months later it lets do this completely horrific double murder.

For which John Lowe is now serving life sentences and will no doubt die

in prison. A risk assessment was not carried out before John Lowe had his

firearms returned to him. Are you saying you have now added that or

was that in place but ignored? Assessments were carried out. They

weren't a thorough enough and they led to the wrong conclusion. The

national guidelines that were in place at the time, the Home Office

guidelines from 2002, were not properly adhered to. Stacey Banna

warned that the firearms should not be returned because John Lowe it is

dangerous. She reported concerns to us. We seized those firearms that

same day. There was a three-month investigation at the conclusion of

which a wrong decision was taken. It is clear and it is described in the

significant detail in the report. We can't change that. We can't turn

back the clock as much as we would like to. As I say, we come to work

to save life and protect the vulnerable. We failed

catastrophically in this occasion. It is important that we responsibly

to that and I have described how we did that. It is important that a

number of years on, as we are, now, with the IP CC report finally

published, that we look again and re-examine our procedures and talk

to colleagues nationally about practices and procedures in all

firearms units to make sure that the lessons of this case, which is very

rare and extremely tragic our land for everybody when these tough

decisions are made. It might be several years on for you but I am

sure it is not for the that many of Christine and Lucy Lees. Do you

think your apology to the family and the fact that you have put in place

better training is going to be any consolation to them?

The tragedy of this case affects them every day. They have to live

with what has happened. I don't think there's anything that I could

really say to them that will change their circumstances. But, of course,

we have a wider duty in all of the cases that we deal with, to make

sure that we respond to things. It is not just additional training. For

example, we reviewed all of the decisions we made on firearms

returned to the previous three years to this case. We've changed the

levels of decision-making and authority. There is now a national

practice that followed in 2014 and additional inspections have been

done. I've talked in detail to our police and crime commission and

there will be additional scrutiny on this particular area of policing.

Which can have very tragic consequences when incorrect

decisions are taken. Can you guarantee that Surrey Police won't

give guns back to people who have said they will use them? We can

guarantee that every decision we face like this in future we will err

on the side of caution and do proper assessments. Sorry, which would

suggest, to be absolutely clear, which would suggest you are not

going to give guns back to people who said they will use them, is that

what you are saying? Absolutely. At the end of that investigation that

we conduct into these matters, in this case it is clear that it should

not have been returned. We should not do that in future. These are

decisions made by human beings that were assessing often complex and

sometimes conflicting information. But at the end of that, we should

err on the side of caution. On the ballots are probably too, if we

think we should not return them, we should not return them. Particularly

if someone says they are going to use them. Of course. So why did it

happen in this case? Because a wrong decision was made. The details, as I

have described, very thoroughly, the Independent Police Complaints

Commission report. The information was incorrectly assessed, there will

not enough enquirer is done in order to reach the right decision. If, for

a moment, those involved in this decision thought that two people

would lose their lives over this, clearly, they would not have done

it. Of course. Of course. My goodness. We can't foresee, seven

months into the future, when we make these decisions. You can't, no one

is expecting you to read the future. Absolutely. But what can absolutely

be expected is that risk assessments that are done are thorough and take

into consideration all available information. And they are checked

and double checked. That didn't happen in this case. That is a

matter of deep, deep regret. And, of course, has led to significant pain

and suffering and loss for many people.

If you are watching on BBC Two, coverage of the snooker.

To continue watching our programme turn over

to the BBC News Channel - where coming up in

How do you get people caring about politics?

We took two women who have very little interest in politics to spend

a day in Parliament. They tell us how they got on.

As tensions continue to rise between the US and North korea -

we bring together a supporter of the North Korean regime

The tax authorities in Britain have arrested several men working within

football for a suspected tax and national insurance fraud.

The latest news and sport at 10am, let's bring you the weather.

It has been a cold start of the day before many of us, it has also been

a beautiful one. We have seen some sunshine. This is a weather

watcher's picture from Wales. Other parts of the UK has seen this

sunshine as well. Some showers across the North and also the east.

Some of those through the day will be heavy and thundery, some with

hail mixed in. Cloud arriving across west of Scotland and Northern

Ireland will bring some showery outbreaks of rain, more persistent

in the Northern Isles as it sinks south overnight. It will turn weaker

in nature and definitely more showery. It will be cold enough for

some frost in the countryside. And some patchy fog. We will start off

with some sunshine tomorrow morning. Our band of cloud continues to sink

South with showery outbreaks of rain. Some brighter skies behind.

Some showers moving across western Scotland and northern England.

Eventually into Northern Ireland. It will not feel as cold tomorrow as

today. Our temperature range from 8-12.

Hello. It's Wednesday.

It's 10am. I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Who cares about the general election?

It's six weeks away and voter apathy remains high.

We took two people to parliament to speak to politicians.

Could it convince them to vote this time?

A lot of lives people live is not the lives politicians life. They are

the ones making the decisions. I think if they had to live a year on

an average person's wage I'm not sure they would be able to manage

that. We'll put that, and several other

questions to a group of MPs Are North Korea and the US playing

a terrifying game of chicken? And how dangerous is it

for the rest of us? We're talking to a North Korean

defector and a supporter The puppy farm murders -

Surrey Police have been criticised for returning a collection

of shotguns to a man who went on to kill his partner

and her daughter. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. Labour has promised to increase pay

for NHS staff and scrap tuition fees for student nurses if it wins

the general election. The party says it will

abolish the current cap for staff in England which limits

pay increases to 1%. Labour said the policies would help

address staffing shortages in England that had become

a "threat to patients". Surrey Police have been strongly

criticised for returning a collection of shotguns to a man

who went on to kill his Christine and Lucy Lee

were shot by 82-year-old A report by the Independent Police

Complaints Commission has highlighted serious failings

by the force and said the way firearms are licensed

across the country needs Detectives investigating

the disappearance of Madeleine McCann say

they are still pursuing what they describe as "critical

leads" in the case. Next week will mark ten years

since the three-year-old disappeared while on holiday

with her parents in Portugal. Officers have confirmed that four

people considered as possible suspects in 2013 have

been ruled out. A former Health Secretary has said

a "criminal cover-up on an industrial scale" took

place over the use of NHS contaminated blood products

in the 1970s and 1980s. More than 2,000 deaths have been

linked to the scandal in which haemophiliacs and others

were infected with Hepatitis C Speaking in the Commons last night,

Andy Burnham said the victims New research in the US

has found that cases New research has found that

copying your boss into emails can make everyone else

in the office distrust you. The study undertaken

by Cambridge University found that while it could seem like a way

to increase transparency, the "cc effect" fed a culture

of fear amongst colleagues and many employees saw it as a potentially

threatening move. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30am. More information on this HMRC

information into tax fraud within sport. Our sports editor say that 50

tax officials raided West Ham's stadium. They remain on site.

Documents have been seized. HMRC officials have been at West Ham's

ground from 8am this morning. They are still there. Documents have been

seized. More details to come. As soon as we get them, we'll bring

them to you. Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and If you text, you will be charged Chelsea are seven points clear again

at the top of the Premier League, thanks to a 4-2 win over Southampton

at Stamford Bridge last night. Captain Gary Cahill

was back in the starting line-up after illness

and he gave his side a 2-1 lead Diego Costa hadn't scored

in seven games for Chelsea, but got two last night to make

sure of the victory. You must be ready for this mental

effort also, not only a physical effort, but also a mental effort,

but yeah, it is not easy but we are fighting and we are ready to fight

from now until the end. Tottenham are Chelsea's nearest

rivals and will try to narrow They travel to Selhurst Park to play

a Crystal Palace side who have already beaten Arsenal, Liverpool,

and Chelsea this month and Spurs will need to bounce back

from losing to Chelsea in the FA Cup When you are competing at that

level. It is so difficult. There is no time to regret. There is to time

to complain. You have to be ready and to look at the game we have and

to try and give your best. World number one Andy Murray

is in action at the Barcelona Open today where he takes

on Bernard Tomic. Maria Sharapova makes her return

to tennis, following a 15 month The former Wimbledon

champion is a wild card at the Stuttgart Open

and that doesn't sit well with her opponent,

Italy's Roberta Vinci. She said, of course, a great player

and I have nothing against her, but she paid for her mistakes, but she

paid and I think she can return to play, but without any wild card.

Play is getting under way at the World Snooker Championship.

Ronnie O'Sullivan has spent a lot of time sitting down,

during his world snooker quarter-final against Ding Junhui.

O'Sullivan won the last, but trails 10-6. The first to 13 frames wins,

remember. They resume at 2.30pm and it's live on BBC Two.

That's it for now, Victoria. So with a general election in six

weeks time you're going to be New research out today suggests that

most of us aren't all that Just a third of us are satisfied

with the system we have for governing the country

and the vast majority think we have So we took two people

who are not really bothered by politics, don't think it

represents them, and between them have only voted once to spend

a day in Parliament. I feel that politicians

make decisions for people they don't

know anything about, because a lot of the lives people

live are nothing like Here you are literally

in a bear pit. It was quite intimidating.

Emotional. Massively different than I expected it to be. I've come away

feeling like I've got a good grasp of how politics works. I would

confidently vote for the first time in 27 years. The majority of those

that we met today would seem they are for the people, but I think

people don't appreciate how much they actually have to do.

Let's talk to Kiara Stone and Latifah Atkinson

who you just saw in that film, Labour MP Dawn Butler,

who is also Latifah's constinuency MP in Brent,

she's also a former minister for youth engagement,

Conservative MP for Bristol North West Charlotte

Leslie, and Tasmina Ahmed Sheik SNP, MP for Ochil and Perthshire.

Welcome all of you. The main issue for you was you thought politicians

lived totally different lives to you, and therefore, how could they

represent you? Do you feel differently or do you still not know

the answer to that? I feel that, obviously, they still do live

different lives, but I appreciate what they do much more now seeing

first hand what they're doing and how the job, speaking to Dawn, and

knowing what goes into their day-to-day life as an MP. So you

have a better understanding of their jobs. Again, knowing more now, do

you think, oh yeah, these are people that can represent me and do know

the kind of life I lead? Yeah, I think it was really interesting,

when in the House of Commons watching the MPs discussing what

their constituents had come to them for help with, so that was really

interesting. That made me realise yes, they are representing the

people and they are taking these issues forward and talking about

them in the House of Commons. And they do work hard which... Breaking

news! MPs very do work hard!

LAUGHTER Charlotte, the proportion of people

feeling they have influence over national decision making is on the

rise. The bad news, it has risen to 16%. That's not good, is it? It's

not good and we have a lot more work to do. I think people look at

Westminster and the Commons and see it as very different and

out-of-touch and it is a constant mission as an MP to keep yourself in

touch, but the fact that we have constituents... Is it hard it keep

in touch? You go into this extraordinary place that's like

Hogwarts. People start talking you mam and you sit-in green chairs. You

have to meet constituents every week in your surgery. That's the most

important bitment if you stay in Westminster the whole time, it is

hard to keep it real. You come back home to the constituency, and you

get such a privileged access to talk to people, make friends from

constituents and see parts of, you know, your own community, you

probably wouldn't see, that's, I call my constituency me reality,

library, if you really want to find out what's going on in the world,

talk to people in your constituency and going to the pub helps. You go

to the pub with your constituents? I do, yes. Do you pay? I can't buy a

drink during the election campaign because it's called bribery so happy

days! Dawn, you are a constituency MP. I suspect there are a number of

people who just think that politics is not for them. How do you engage

people? Well, I have a programme of engaging specifically with young

people so I ensure I go to schools and I conduct assemblies and I

invite all the schools to Parliament so they can come and do a tour and I

meet them afterwards and they can come and do a Q and A with me. Do

you think you know about the lives they lead? Yeah, of course. I live

the lives that they live. I live into my constituency, by I hold

surgeries, I have an office based on the high street so people get to pop

in. Whenever there is a change in universal credits for instance, I

see my mailbag starting getting bigger in a particular area. So, you

get to see every day what comes into your inbox and what comes into your

mailbag. Do you think that this short run-up to the general

election, for some people, six weeks is still too long, but compared to

2015, for example, it is a very short run-up. That's going to have

an impact on people engaging? Well, first of all, it will have an impact

on those who are registered to vote. There has to be a long enough run in

for people to be involved in the process and feel their vote is worth

it and unfortunately, we've got a short run in to get people to

register to vote and that's a problem and I think it's a shame

that we're in this situation. Then we have to talk about how we

continue to engage those who are registered to vote. In the

independence referendum in 2014, giving the vote to 16 and

17-year-olds was hugely advantageous... Was there 100%

turn-out? We had 90% registered to vote and turn-out was good. How do

we engage people in politics? Yes, we get to see their constituents

which is a great privilege to be able to help people, but that's not

everybody. Not everybody comes to see us and not everybody comes to

see us in Parliament and not everybody reads newspapers. That's

why in this election, when we have got a short run in, leaders debates

are hugely important, you know, if you believe in the prospectus you

are awe putting to the people, you should stand beside that prospectus

and allow people become engaged in that debate. If it is one thing

people see is a leaders debate. Do you want to see leaders debates

involving the main party leaders? Did you watch it in 2015? No. No. I

was disengaged with politics. You didn't watch any of the leaders

debates? No. Any of the Question Times? No. Theresa May called an

election at very short notice and so she should put her policies to the

people so they can hear and so it can be debated. Prime Minister's

Questions is not a political debate. It's a half an hour of theatre every

Wednesday. OK. I'm going to play for our

audience, they may have seen it on social media, something you did

recently and I want to ask you if you think this is a way of bring

interesting more people in politics and being a bit more inclusive.

Let's look at this. # I stood there nothing

# So I felt that everything # You held me down but I got up

# Already brushing off the dust # that a way of getting more people

involved? In 2003 a Labour government

recognised British sign language but it hasn't got full status. I am

running this campaign to get British sign language to the next step that

it is a way of breaking down barriers and it is breaking down

another set of barriers. One in six people have hearing difficulties.

There's a whole group of people that need to be engaged. If signing

helps, that's fantastic. We have to leave it there. Thank you very much.

Thanks for going to Parliament. The next six weeks are all about it. If

you have stories that aren't being reported, the worst to take part in

TV discussions like we have today at talk directly to politicians about

their policies, do get in touch. You can e-mail me.

More on the news that Surrey Police have been severely criticised for

its decision to return firearms to a man who went on to shoot dead his

partner and her daughter. John Lowe murdered Christine and Lucy Lee at a

puppy farm in 2014 shortly after police returned his guns. Despite

Mrs Lee's other daughter said he had threatened her with them. She was

later arrested. Something the Independent Police Complaints

Commission says should not have happened. Three police officers and

two staff have cases to answer. We need to take into account all

available information, they are checked and double checked. That

didn't happen and that is a matter of deep regret. It has led to

significant pain and suffering and loss for many people.

Not least Stacey Banner the sister of Lucy Lee. Good morning to you,

thank you for talking to us. I gather you watch the interview and

what would you like to say about it? There are still a lot of questions

that need answering. I want to know what Rafferty knows when my sister

made the 999 call. He's quite strong in saying we are

going to make changes. And this won't happen again.

You told the police seven months before the guns were returned that

they shouldn't. What did you say to them? I told the police had

dangerous he was. I told the police that he would kill and he did. He

killed my mum and my sister. Ultimately, I have no other family

other than my husband and my children. When he is saying with all

the family that are... You know... Concerned in terms of... I am the

only family. Of my mum and sister. No mother, I have no system now,

thanks to Surrey Police. They knew he had criminal associates, then

knew how dangerous he was but they took no notice of me. Why do you

think that was? There is another report that is due to come out and

ultimately a lot more questions will be answered in that.

When that happens, I feel I might get some answers. You know,

realistically, Surrey Police have tortured me. They've made my life

absolute hell. They arrested me. You know, they held me in a cell for 22

hours. When I was choosing coffins for my mum and sister. They have

been on a hate campaign, a smear campaign, to blacken my name.

Because, obviously, I know the truth. The truth is, they were fully

aware of what John Lowe was capable of. They knew for years. Can I ask

you what threats he'd made to you, previously, John Lowe. Yeah. He

threatened to shoot me. Growing up he was an incredibly

dangerous man. You know, there were numerous

threats. To me. What do you intend to do now, Stacy Banner?

threats. To me. What do you intend to do now, Stacy I intend to get

justice. It means that every police officer involved in this is to face

justice. The firearms officers, for example, I can't change what has

happened there. Ultimately, you said quite a valid point in terms of, do

they still get their pensions? Well, of course they do.

The guy that retired, you know, ultimately, he's happy. He's going

to have a great life. I'm living in a rented house, still fighting for

justice. The fact of the matter is... I have to keep going with

this. Because they knew how dangerous he was. So you're going to

sue Surrey Police? Yes. Because you want further sanctions for those you

say were involved? Or because you want compensation? Well, obviously,

there's no amount of money that can make this better.

There isn't a price for my mum and sister. There is no price for my mum

and my sister to be here. I saw them in the morgue. There is no price for

what I've had to go through in terms of Surrey Police. If there is, I

would like someone to name it. How do you try to deal with the loss

of your mum and sister at the hands of your stepfather?

It doesn't ever go away. This doesn't go away. This doesn't get

better, this doesn't get easier. Realistically, the worst pain is

that I've had to... I've read that report months ago. When I read it,

there was no shock, there was no surprise, because everything that

was in it is true. It's incredibly scary that anyone would hand him as

much as a catapult, let alone guns. When you hear Surrey Police and

regenerate their apology to you... They have never... I need to

emphasise this point, Surrey Police have never ever apologised to me.

Really? Never apologised to me. Ever. They've apologised to the

family that I haven't seen for 26 years. They have never apologised to

me. Or my children. Or my husband. They didn't apologise to me when

they were putting me in a cell for 22 hours. When I couldn't eat or

drink. They've never apologised... It infuriates me that he is saying,

"We apologise to the family". What exactly are you apologising for? Are

you apologising for the fact that you handed back a psychopath, a

known psychopath, guns? Or are you actually apologising for what hell

and torture you have put me through? What are they apologising for?

Because sorry is a great word but I've seen absolutely no truth at all

from Surrey Police. Stacy, thank you for talking to us this morning.

Stacy Banner, the sister of Lucy Lee, the daughter of Christine Lee,

both of whom were murdered by her stepfather, John Lowe several months

after police gave his collection of shotguns back to him. Stacy Banner

telling us exclusively she is going to sue Surrey Police.

Still to come, a report by politicians in scotland says

children may be at risk, because the system designed

to prevent abuse in football is not working properly.

The American military has begun installing parts of an advanced

missile defence system at a site in South Korea.

Tension is high over North Korea's missile

Hundreds of local residents protested, as a convoy of vehicles

carried equipment to a former golf course.

We can talk now to two people with very different

Dermot Hudson is the chairman of the UK-Korean Friendship Association,

the biggest community of North Korea supporters in the UK.

And Lord David Alton, is the chairman of the All-Party

Parliamentary Group on North Korea and a campaigner on human rights.

Good morning to you. Dermot, North Korea is run by an erratic dictator,

when he gets angry, he has members of his own family killed and puts

many of his own people in prison camps, labour camps for cells. He

makes sure his keyboard are kept hungry. Do you disagree? Total

rubbish. -- he makes sure his people are kept hungry. I was just back

from the DPRK. I was just there. I came back on Sunday morning. I spent

two weeks in the DPRK. I visited it 13 times. It is absolute rubbish.

Some of the reports about executions have been proved to be untrue. For

example, it was said that General Ri Yong-gil, the chief of staff was

executed but he later turned up. He has just been promoted again. Was it

not true that he puts his own people inside Labour camps? No. It's not

true? I've never seen one. So they don't exist because you haven't seen

one in one of your 13 visits? ! It is claimed by South Korea, it is

claimed by the west. It is claimed by the person to the left of me that

there are huge labour camps, as big as towns.

Surely, I would have seen one by now. Because, I mean, in London...

Does that sound sensible to you? No. Surely Dermot would have seen one,

he's been there 13 times. He has been escorted, he would have seen

what they would allow him to see. One of the reasons he won't appear

on a programme with someone who has escaped from North Korea is because

some of them have escaped from these camps that he says are a figment of

the imagination. It doesn't matter what he or I think, the United

Nations commissioned an enquiry three years ago headed up by Mr

Justice Kirby published a report that set up to 200,000 people are in

these imaginary camps. He said it is a state without parallel anywhere in

the world, that every one of the study article of the universal

declaration of human rights are being violated in that country. 2

million people starved to death in the 1990s while it spends one quart

of its gross domestic product on military weapons and armaments. It

is now trying to blackmail and bully the rest of the world by the

development of nuclear capability. This is a state without parallel. It

is outrageous, it beggars belief to me that anybody would be here

apologising or trying to speak up for that regime. I mean, again, this

is all... Full of... Falsehood. Members of the United Nations are

making it up, are they? Lying? They are acting on behalf of the US.

George Kirby is a man with strong US connections. What would be the

motivation for making all that up? -- judge Kirby. To demonise the

DPRK, to turn the west against it. When you hear it from defectors,

what do you think, they are making it up as well? Yes. I have chaired

hearings in the House of Lords which has been addressed by escapees. They

would leave you in tears, when you are about the things that has

happened to them. A catalogue of executions, torture, rape. Massive

violations of human rights occur in North Korea. It must change. Anyone

who loves the people of North Korea would be working for change.

Instead, we are on the brink of a war. The Sarajevo moment, if it were

to occur, the law unintended consequences, we could see another

one the Korean peninsular. Last time, 3 million people died on a war

in the Korean peninsula including 1000 British servicemen. More than

in the Falklands, Afghanistan and Iraq combined. That is the danger

the world faces at the moment. As Churchill said, we need less war and

more George Orr. It is good China is playing that role, trying to bring

about reform. It is good the BBC are helping to break the information

blockade around North Korea by instigating BBC world broadcast

services to the country. It is why we must press at the United Nations

Security Council during meetings this week for the North Korean

regime to be brought before the International criminal court, so

that these allegations can be tested. Including the use of toxic

nerve agents to kill people who are opponents of reform inside North

Korea. In international airports. Forgive me, you snorted at the term

toxic nerve agents. You don't believe that either? At a nonsense.

They wouldn't be able to use the airport for years and years. Can I

go on record here Briefly. I don't appear on programmes with defectors

because of the risk toe personal safety. A lot of these people are

criminals. They are dangerous. Listen, a young man came to see me

who had escaped twice from North Korea and who was tortured in North

Korea and he is the first person to have gone through a British

university and achieved a degree in this country. You can't sit with

someone like that and listen to their personal story and what about

the woman who came and addressed us in Parliament? It is like the

defensive Stalin in the 1930s... I knew quite well one defector, the

one who was at the embassy in London. This is the number two in

the embassy in London. He wasn't a defector. Yeah, he was a number two

the embassy and he turned the spotlight on North Korea by telling

it as it isment this is like the 1930s and the defence of Stalin by

the communists by the whole of the West and we're going through the

same nonsense all over again. We must tell the truth of what is

happening in North Korea and do something about it. Thank you.

Labour has promised to increase pay for NHS staff and scrap tuition fees

for student nurses if it wins the general election.

for student nurses and midwives - that's what the Labour Party

is promising, if it wins the general election.

Several men from the professional football industry have been arrested

over suspected income tax and national insurance fraud.

The BBC understands HMRC officials raided West Ham's offices

at the London Stadium this morning and seized documents.

Officers have also been deployed in the north east

Surrey Police have been strongly criticised for returning

a collection of shotguns to a man who went on to kill his

Christine and Lucy Lee were shot by 82-year-old John Lowe in 2014.

A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission has

highlighted serious failings by the force and said the way

firearms are licensed across the country needs

We have been told by the daughter of Chris teen Lee that she will be

suing Surrey Police. Detectives investigating

the disappearance of Madeleine McCann say

they are still pursuing what they describe as "critical

leads" in the case. Next week will mark ten years

since the three-year-old disappeared while on holiday

with her parents in Portugal. Officers have confirmed that four

people considered as possible suspects in 2013 have

been ruled out. Sunderland manager David Moyes has

been charged by the FA after telling BBC reporter Vicki Sparks she might

"get a slap". He was caught on camera making

the remarks following his team's draw against Burnley last month,

and has until 3rd May Chelsea beat Southampton last night

to move seven points clear Diego Costa scored twice in a 4-2

victory and captain Gary Cahill says it's a "massive step"

Maria Sharapova is back playing tennis today, after her 15 month

suspension for doping. The former Wimbledon champion

is a controversial wild card Ronnie O'Sullivan

is in real trouble at He won the last frame against

China's Ding Junhui but trails 10-6 The match resumes at

2.30pm, live on BBC Two. I'll have more sport

on the News Channel Thank you very much. Hopefully you

will be wearing a suit because for some reason you have to change!

The UK tax authorities have announced the arrest

of several men working within the professional football

industry for suspected income tax and National insurance fraud.

Our Sports News correspondent Richard Conway joins me now.

Big developments this morning, Victoria. There have been raids by

Her Majesty's revenues and Customs Officers at Newcastle United stadium

and at the London Stadium which is the home now of West Ham United. 180

officers deployed in total we're told. Several arrests have been

made. There have been business records and financial records and

computers and mobile phones have been seized, that's what the HMRC

confirmed to us in addition to that, authorities in France are said to be

assisting HMRC in this investigation. There have been

locations searched there as well. There seems to be a major

investigation in total and it all started this morning. Again, you may

not know this, do we know if it is players that's been targeted,

managers, if it's chairmen, agents? We don't know the details. HMRC are

keeping their cards close to their chest. They say this criminal

investigation sends a message whoever you are, if you commit tax

fraud you can expect to face the consequences. They say it is an on

going investigation and they can't provide more detail at this time,

but we know that football is a complex and international business.

There has been a lot of player transfers between English clubs and

French clubs in recent years. We don't know the exact detail, but we

will have to await that detail, but this looks like it is a major

investigation given the number of officers involved, premises raided

and arrests made. Thank you very much.

Richard Conway, our sports news correspondent. More on BBC News.

The Scottish Football Association is "asleep on the job" over child

protection in sport, a new report by MSPs claims.

The Scottish Parliament's Health and Sport Committee found that

children may yet be at risk because the system designed

to prevent abuse in sport is not working properly.

Joining us now from outside the Scottish Parliament

is Neil Findlay, who is the Labour MSP for Lothian and is

the committee's convener, the person in charge of the report.

Tell our audience what you have discovered? Good morning, Victoria.

The committee was not investigating the historic abuse of children. What

we were looking at was the protecting vulnerable groups scheme

that operates here in Scotland and whether that was robust enough to do

all it could to protect children who are involved in sporting activity.

That's what the committee was looking at. We've come to the

conclusion that we are not confident that that scheme is operating in

such a way that it provides the maximum protection. What's going

wrong then? Well, there is a variation in the way in which the

scheme is applied. It can mean that some people are working with

children without having fully been through this scheme and the scheme

is not mandatory and we think the scheme should be mandatory and there

are changes that should be made to the PVG scheme that would try to

ensure that children are protected as much as they possibly can. Right,

OK. So, because it's an optional scheme you don't know who is working

with young children in sport, really? That's a part of it, but

another issue is that some sports bodies allow adults to do some work

with children prior to the PVG process being complete. Now, that's

supposed to be supervised work. They're not supposed to be left

alone with children, but there is a clear variation in how that is

applied and we're not confident that the scheme is operating to the

maximum and has the maximum protection. OK, so what needs to

change then for it to have the maximum protection? What does that

involve? The Government has agreed, the Scottish Government agreed to

review the scheme, but that review won't report for a year. Therefore,

we think that action needs to be taken now and we think that within

the way in which the scheme operates there are some changes that could be

made now and we think the Government should look at the operation of the

scheme in that interim period, but there is responsibilities on sports

governing bodies because they award grants to sports Scotland awards

grants to sports governing bodies who then award money on to clubs and

organisations. As part of the deal between Sport Scotland and the

sports governing bodies we think they should be making high demands

of those governing bodies to comply with the PVG scheme in a mandatory

way, but also ensure that they have the maximum policies in place for

child protection. You pointed out, you say that the Scottish Youth

Football Association has misled Government officials and your

committee in relation to the levels of backlog being experienced when it

comes to checking on coaches and officials working with young

footballers. How have they misled you? Well, we had to recall both the

Scottish Football Association and the Youth Football Association to

committee to give evidence because the evidence that we received on the

backlog was inconsistent, the numbers they provided to the

committee and to Government and then repeatedly provided, repeated again

when they came back to the committee were frankly all over the place.

Where they deliberately trying to mislead you or was it human error,

what do you think? I cannot tell that. But the numbers were

inconsistent and we felt that they were, the committee was misled.

Right, so were they saying the backlog wasn't as bad as it is?

Well, the numbers were inconsistent. So some numbers were given saying

that there was a large backlog. The BBC did some very good work on this

issue and investigating coaches in football who were not completely PVG

cleared and then the numbers changed as we went through the process and

they were inconsistent. However, we have criticism of the Scottish

Football Association because they are the parent body of they are an

affiliated organisation the SFYA and the SFA appeared to have, as the

committee report, says to have been asleep on at the wheel on such an

important issue. Thank you very much for talking to us. That's the member

of the Scottish Parliament for Lothian and he is the committee's

chairman or convenor. NHS staff will get higher pay

and there will be no tuition fees for student nurses and midwives,

that's what the Labour Party is promising, if it wins

the general election. It says the policies would help

address staffing shortages in England that had become

a "threat to patients". Our Political Guru,

Norman Smith is at Westminster. Fill us in Norman. Hi, Vic, what do

you do if you're having a sticky election? You try and change the

agenda. You move it on which is what Labour are hoping to do today, to

get it off Brexit and questions about Mr Corbyn's leadership to much

more favourable terrain, the NHS which Labour think Mrs May is

vulnerable. We have had pressures on A and waiting times going in the

wrong direction and the junior doctors strike. Let's take a look at

it. Top priority is a pay rise for everyone who works in the NHS