02/12/2015 Wednesday in Parliament


02/12/2015

Georgina Pattinson presents highlights of Wednesday 2 December in Parliament.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 02/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament,

:00:12.:00:13.

MPs vote to allow air strikes against the terror group

:00:14.:00:21.

The noes to the left, 223. Sodhi ayes have it -- so, the ayes have

:00:22.:00:39.

it. At the start of a marathon debate,

:00:40.:00:42.

the Prime Minister said defeating In action is a choice. I believe it

:00:43.:00:45.

is the wrong choice. In a day-long debate, the House

:00:46.:01:00.

of Commons has discussed the government's proposals for carrying

:01:01.:01:13.

out airstrikes in Syria against The Prime Minister told the House

:01:14.:01:15.

that the aim of military action was to "keep the British people safe"

:01:16.:01:25.

from terror attacks. But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

:01:26.:01:27.

opposed that stance - although his view was not

:01:28.:01:30.

representative of every one of his The day began with the

:01:31.:01:32.

Prime Minister's opening statement. I wish to call the prime Minister.

:01:33.:01:42.

The question before the House today is how we keep the British people

:01:43.:01:48.

safe from the threat posed by Isil. Let me be clear, this is not about

:01:49.:01:53.

whether we want to fight terrorism, it is about how best we do that.

:01:54.:01:59.

Since November last year, our security forces have foiled no fewer

:02:00.:02:04.

than seven plots against our people, so the threat is real, and the

:02:05.:02:09.

question is, do we work with our allies to destroy this threat, and

:02:10.:02:14.

do we go after these terrorists in their heart lands, or do we sit back

:02:15.:02:15.

and wait for them to attack us? The Prime Minister took

:02:16.:02:18.

interventions early on in his speech, when MPs asked him to

:02:19.:02:20.

apologise for reportedly saying opponents of military action were

:02:21.:02:23.

terrorist sympathisers. No-one on this side of the House

:02:24.:02:33.

will make a decision based on any such remarks, nor will we be

:02:34.:02:39.

threatened into, from doing what we believe is the right thing, whether

:02:40.:02:45.

those threats come from online activists or indeed from our own

:02:46.:02:52.

dispatch box. I completely agree with the honourable gentleman.

:02:53.:02:55.

Everyone in this House should make up their mind on the argument in

:02:56.:03:01.

this House, and there is honour in voting for and against. We should be

:03:02.:03:04.

clear what air strikes alone can't achieve. We don't need ground troops

:03:05.:03:13.

to hit the headquarters of Daesh, their supply routes and training

:03:14.:03:14.

facilities and weapons suppliers. The Prime Minister defended his

:03:15.:03:16.

claim there were 70,000 moderate opposition fighters in Syria, saying

:03:17.:03:19.

it was the estimate of the Joint Intelligence Committee,

:03:20.:03:21.

the UK's senior intelligence body. I am not arguing, this is a crucial

:03:22.:03:33.

point, IMF arguing that all of these 70,000 are somehow ideal partners.

:03:34.:03:41.

Some left the Army because of the brutality of a solid, and they can

:03:42.:03:45.

play a role in the future of Syria, and that is a view that has been

:03:46.:03:49.

taken by the Russians as well. This is not 2003. We must not use past

:03:50.:03:55.

mistakes as an excuse for indifference or inaction. Let's be

:03:56.:04:01.

clear, in action does not amount to a strategy for our security or for

:04:02.:04:06.

the people of Syria, but inaction is a choice, and they believe it is the

:04:07.:04:10.

wrong choice. We have listened to our allies and we have taken legal

:04:11.:04:15.

advice and we have a United Nations resolution and we have discussed

:04:16.:04:21.

this extensively at meetings at the Security Council, I have put forward

:04:22.:04:25.

a report to the select committee, we have a proper motion for this House,

:04:26.:04:30.

and ahead by the end of it all, the House will come together for large

:04:31.:04:36.

-- in large numbers to help defeat these extremists and take the action

:04:37.:04:39.

that is needed now to keep our country safe.

:04:40.:04:41.

It was the turn of the Labour leader

:04:42.:04:43.

Since the prime minister first make his case for bombing in Syria last

:04:44.:04:58.

week,... That is why it is a matter of such concern that a government

:04:59.:05:03.

has decided to push this vote through Parliament today. The issue

:05:04.:05:07.

now is whether extending British bombing from Iraq to Syria is likely

:05:08.:05:13.

to reduce or increase that threat to Britain, and whether it will counter

:05:14.:05:17.

or spread the terror campaign that is being waged by Isil across the

:05:18.:05:22.

Middle East. The answers do not make the case for the government motion.

:05:23.:05:28.

On the contrary, they are a step back. A vote against yet another

:05:29.:05:32.

ill-fated twist in this never-ending war on terror.

:05:33.:05:34.

And Mr Corbyn too addressed the issue of ground troops in Syria,

:05:35.:05:37.

saying the only troops who could take advantage of the bombing

:05:38.:05:47.

Campaign were jihadist forces. Western boots on the ground, what

:05:48.:05:54.

ever the prime minister me to say now about keeping British combat

:05:55.:05:59.

troops out of the way, are a real possibility.

:06:00.:06:05.

He finished by calling for increased efforts for a

:06:06.:06:09.

To oppose another war and intervention is not passive as in,

:06:10.:06:16.

it is hard-headed common-sense, which I think we should be thinking

:06:17.:06:21.

about today in this House. To resist the determination of Isil to draw

:06:22.:06:26.

the Western powers back into the heart of the Middle East is not to

:06:27.:06:31.

turn our back on our allies, it is refusing to play into the hands of

:06:32.:06:36.

Isil and what I expect some of them want us to do.

:06:37.:06:38.

Now, five minutes isn't long for a backbencher to make a speech

:06:39.:06:42.

but over 100 members wanted to contribute to the debate.

:06:43.:06:44.

Sir Alan Duncan was the first Conservative MP to speak

:06:45.:06:46.

and he said the decision not to bomb Syria in 2013 had raised questions

:06:47.:06:50.

If we choose today to remain on the sidelines, especially when there is

:06:51.:07:07.

a new and unequivocal United Nations resolution in place, it would signal

:07:08.:07:12.

to the world that the United Kingdom is indeed choosing to withdraw. Mr

:07:13.:07:19.

Speaker, we should not be in the business of national resignation

:07:20.:07:27.

from the world stage. I am not going to be a party to killing innocent

:07:28.:07:36.

civilians for what will simply be a gesture. I am not interested in

:07:37.:07:43.

gesture or texts. I am not interested in gesture military

:07:44.:07:50.

activity. I am interested in affecting military activity, and if

:07:51.:07:54.

that is brought before this House, I vote for it. To my mind, Isil isn't

:07:55.:07:58.

such a clear and present danger to the civilized world -- is such a

:07:59.:08:04.

clear and present danger to the civilized world... Our French allies

:08:05.:08:11.

have excessively asked us for such support, and I invite the House to

:08:12.:08:15.

consider how we would feel and what we would say if what took place in

:08:16.:08:22.

Paris had happened in London, if we had explicitly asked friends for

:08:23.:08:27.

support and France had refused. -- asked France for support.

:08:28.:08:31.

Conservative John Baron is a member of the

:08:32.:08:33.

Foreign Affairs Committee and his amendment opposes the Government's

:08:34.:08:35.

We should be tackling the ideology and the sectarianism that feeds the

:08:36.:08:47.

extremism that these groups, including Daesh, feed off. That is a

:08:48.:08:52.

long-term strategy. You cannot do it overnight, but I don't see much

:08:53.:08:56.

evidence of that. I find this decision as difficult as anyone to

:08:57.:09:02.

make. I wish I had, frankly, the self righteous certitude of the

:09:03.:09:10.

finger jabbing representatives who will no doubt soon be contacting

:09:11.:09:12.

those of us who support this motion tonight. But I believe that Isil

:09:13.:09:27.

-gen-macro has to be confronted. -- Isil Daesh.

:09:28.:09:28.

Conservative Julian Lewis is chair of the defence committee and he

:09:29.:09:31.

said he had consulted the former ambassador to Syria, Peter Ford.

:09:32.:09:33.

He calls the freeze Syrian army a ragbag of 58 factions, united mainly

:09:34.:09:50.

by a desire to use both, Turkish and Western funding. He goes on to say

:09:51.:09:54.

that the factions which are extremely locally based have no

:09:55.:09:59.

interest whatsoever in being drawn into battle against groups which

:10:00.:10:03.

basically share their sectarian agenda hundreds of miles away in

:10:04.:10:07.

areas with which they are unfamiliar. So, Mr Speaker, instead

:10:08.:10:13.

of having dodgy dossiers, we now have bogus battalions of moderate

:10:14.:10:22.

fighters. Daesh are the fascists of our time and I still believe there

:10:23.:10:26.

is a dignity in uniting with our allies against a common enemy in

:10:27.:10:29.

defence of our common humanity, and that is what I hope we will do.

:10:30.:10:33.

The SNP uniformly opposes air strikes.

:10:34.:10:34.

The party's leader at Westminster, Angus Robertson,

:10:35.:10:36.

said he appreciated the professionalism of the armed forces,

:10:37.:10:38.

adding that most of the air crews deployed were likely to be from

:10:39.:10:42.

RAF Lossiemouth in his constituency.

:10:43.:10:48.

Like many others, he turned to the issue of ground troops in Syria.

:10:49.:10:51.

And he raised the issue of the Prime Minister's mandate for action.

:10:52.:10:54.

The problem is, only a part of those forces are moderate, and there is

:10:55.:11:01.

absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they would definitely deploy

:11:02.:11:05.

from other parts of the country to counter Daesh. I asked the Prime

:11:06.:11:11.

Minister, all this 70,000, how many are moderate and how many are

:11:12.:11:17.

fundamentalists? I have not had an answer to that question. The UK

:11:18.:11:25.

Government, Mr Speaker, is going to have a huge problem with legitimacy

:11:26.:11:29.

and mandate for this operation in Scotland. It might win the vote

:11:30.:11:35.

tonight, but it will do so with the support of only two out of 59

:11:36.:11:39.

Scottish MPs. The DUP's leader at Westminster

:11:40.:11:41.

said his party would be supporting Paris, like the downing of the

:11:42.:11:51.

Russian airliner, were assaults upon civilized values that have to be

:11:52.:11:59.

lived up to. To prevent evil spreading further, we must act. It

:12:00.:12:02.

is a heavy burden of responsibility. So, it is not a

:12:03.:12:08.

choice between military intervention on the one hand and political

:12:09.:12:13.

initiatives on the other, both go hand in hand.

:12:14.:12:15.

Lib Dem leader Tim Farron said the Prime Minister had broadly met

:12:16.:12:17.

the criteria the Lib Dems wanted to see fulfilled.

:12:18.:12:20.

This is the toughest call I think I have ever had to make, maybe ever,

:12:21.:12:26.

and certainly in this House, and what pushes me in the direction of

:12:27.:12:31.

the voting for action is, above all things, the United Nations

:12:32.:12:36.

resolution 2249, which calls for us to eradicate the safe haven that

:12:37.:12:43.

Isis have within Syria that does not just permit this country but urges

:12:44.:12:46.

this country and all members are capable of doing so to take all

:12:47.:12:53.

necessary action to get rid of Daesh. If we had just been asked to

:12:54.:12:58.

bomb Syria, I would be voting no, I would be out there demonstrating in

:12:59.:13:01.

between speeches and signing up to those e-mails, but this is not just

:13:02.:13:07.

a case of bombing, this is standing with the United Nations and the

:13:08.:13:10.

international community to do what is right by people who are the most

:13:11.:13:12.

beleaguered of all. Meanwhile the Green MP,

:13:13.:13:13.

Caroline Lucas, said military action should not be used

:13:14.:13:16.

unless there was evidence that it I share the horror and revulsion

:13:17.:13:26.

that the recent atrocities in Paris and elsewhere, yet I have still not

:13:27.:13:31.

heard convincing evidence that the UK bombing Isis targets in Syria

:13:32.:13:36.

will help bring about lasting peace in the region. The evidence appears

:13:37.:13:40.

to suggest it would make matters worse.

:13:41.:13:42.

You're watching Wednesday in Parliament on BBC Parliament.

:13:43.:13:44.

Peers air concerns and fears over action in Syria.

:13:45.:13:52.

The Syria debate, naturally, dominated the day in Parliament but

:13:53.:13:55.

Seb Coe, one-time Olympic gold-medallist, now president

:13:56.:14:02.

of the world athletics body the IAAF, was facing a committee of MPs.

:14:03.:14:06.

The long-standing problem of drugs in sport erupted into a huge scandal

:14:07.:14:12.

earlier this year when a German TV documentary claimed that blood

:14:13.:14:15.

doping had been carried out on a massive scale by athletes in Russia,

:14:16.:14:19.

with Russian officials and the IAAF involved

:14:20.:14:22.

After that came a report by the World Anti Doping Agency,

:14:23.:14:29.

which found corruption and bribery practices at the highest

:14:30.:14:31.

We can talk about processes and rules and laws but culture is the

:14:32.:14:44.

thing we have to address. Following the Olympics, your personal

:14:45.:14:49.

reputation made you came of the world, it went so well. I think your

:14:50.:14:54.

reputation is back on the line now that you've taken this job and I

:14:55.:14:57.

think it is going to be very difficult. Straight question, do you

:14:58.:15:01.

really think you can do this? You can break this culture if it does

:15:02.:15:07.

exist? Yes, I have two because I don't there are no tomorrow is for

:15:08.:15:12.

sport. I have to be honest, this is not within my normal framework of

:15:13.:15:15.

reference. I do not understand this culture. It is not the culture I was

:15:16.:15:20.

brought up with, it is not a velocity that any of my coaches had.

:15:21.:15:23.

My father would have killed somebody that suggested I to do anything at

:15:24.:15:32.

all to performance in hands. That was the non-negotiable nature of the

:15:33.:15:36.

environment I was brought up in and that was an environment that the

:15:37.:15:42.

vast majority of athletes are conjugal in and live in. I wanted to

:15:43.:15:46.

ask you, have you ever been offered a break? No. By nobody ever to read

:15:47.:15:54.

your whole career? No. You know anybody who has been offered a

:15:55.:16:01.

bribe? No. Never heard any chat about the track-side or subsequently

:16:02.:16:04.

from anybody who has ever said they were offered money? No. It is

:16:05.:16:11.

extraordinary for our sport that is so full of corruption that you have

:16:12.:16:16.

never come across it. I have really found in any environment that people

:16:17.:16:25.

that are doing corrupt acts tend to share that information with their

:16:26.:16:30.

co-workers. As a journalist myself, I have often heard gossip and gossip

:16:31.:16:35.

is often wrong but sometimes it is correct and it is quite often when

:16:36.:16:40.

following up. It is not our environment I have worked in. If the

:16:41.:16:46.

No, it is not and some serious No, it is not and some serious

:16:47.:16:49.

allegations have been made about former members of the IAAF and I

:16:50.:16:56.

accept that. But I don't believe the IAAF, across all its organisation,

:16:57.:17:00.

and across the vast majority of people that are involved in the

:17:01.:17:05.

sport, is a corrupt sport. Why hasn't the IAAF dealt with this

:17:06.:17:11.

issue earlier? Why haven't you been more prominent in pressing it said

:17:12.:17:14.

you had such a prominent role within the organisation? We were not aware

:17:15.:17:18.

of the specific nature of those allegations. I was certainly not

:17:19.:17:23.

aware of the specific allegation that was being made around the

:17:24.:17:28.

corruption of anti-doping processes in Russia. I would have been aware

:17:29.:17:34.

of the escalation of the problem and those concerns were relieved,

:17:35.:17:41.

encountered by me and by others -- relieved. But I do remind you that

:17:42.:17:46.

there are... They are very serious, I am not walking away from this,

:17:47.:17:47.

these are serious allegations. The MP noted that Lord Coe

:17:48.:17:49.

once also had a post within the international football body,

:17:50.:17:52.

Fifa. You're an exciter in these two

:17:53.:18:03.

organisations and you are a devilled by allegations for many years. You

:18:04.:18:09.

have been very closely involved in both organisations -- bedevilled by

:18:10.:18:14.

allegations. Why should we think, in these circumstances, that you are in

:18:15.:18:19.

the person to clean up this? I have the experience to do that. I had the

:18:20.:18:27.

support to do that. Have there been failures? Yes. Will I fix them?

:18:28.:18:32.

Absolutely. I we listening? Absolutely. I am focused on doing

:18:33.:18:39.

that and if we don't do that there are no tomorrows for my sport.

:18:40.:18:41.

Now, back to the debate on whether the UK should

:18:42.:18:44.

The House of Lords also suspended ordinary business to discuss

:18:45.:18:47.

the matter, 70 peers putting their names down to speak.

:18:48.:18:51.

Senior figures from the church and the army

:18:52.:18:53.

A former head of the British army was one

:18:54.:19:01.

It is my sincere hope that members on the other place or bought in

:19:02.:19:11.

significant numbers in favour of the motion they are debating. To do

:19:12.:19:15.

otherwise would send an appalling message that the UK has pulled up

:19:16.:19:18.

the drawbridge, is no longer an ally that can be trusted and has lost its

:19:19.:19:22.

appetite to be a positive influence in Europe and the wider world. My

:19:23.:19:30.

Lords, this is more about sending the right message, it is about being

:19:31.:19:34.

part of an effective coalition that is not only clear about is strategic

:19:35.:19:38.

objectives but also as a credible and coherent plan that takes us from

:19:39.:19:42.

where we are now to the defeat of the so-called Islamic State and onto

:19:43.:19:46.

a more secure and stable Syria and that wider region.

:19:47.:19:47.

The former Conservative Foreign Secretary,

:19:48.:19:48.

William, now Lord Hague, gave his maiden speech during the debate.

:19:49.:19:51.

He said the UK should always be open to imaginative diplomatic solutions,

:19:52.:19:54.

In the end, if communities and leaders cannot live peacefully

:19:55.:20:07.

together in Syria and Iraq, then we will have to try them living

:20:08.:20:10.

peacefully but separately in the partition of those countries,

:20:11.:20:16.

regretfully, though I say that. Well know literary force alone cannot

:20:17.:20:20.

defeat Daesh, they cannot be defeated without military force. I

:20:21.:20:25.

think that is a very obvious point. When they enslave women, when a

:20:26.:20:29.

murder hostages, when they persecute minorities, they are not seeking a

:20:30.:20:35.

negotiation and since our security as a United Kingdom rests on our

:20:36.:20:38.

alliances and our greatest alliances are with the United States and with

:20:39.:20:43.

brands, it would be extraordinary, we would need a very compelling

:20:44.:20:48.

reason as our security is indivisible from there is not

:20:49.:20:52.

stacked with them in this crisis -- United States and France.

:20:53.:20:53.

And Lord Hague finished by saying the use

:20:54.:20:55.

of small specialist ground forces from western nations in

:20:56.:20:58.

The Archbishop of Canterbury followed Lord Hague

:20:59.:21:01.

and said the House would benefit from his experience.

:21:02.:21:10.

The criteria to my mind have been met. But while there is... While

:21:11.:21:19.

they are necessary, they are not by themselves sufficient in action of

:21:20.:21:23.

this kind. Where we can end up doing the right thing in such a wrong way

:21:24.:21:28.

that it becomes the wrong thing. The communities that have lived there

:21:29.:21:33.

for 2000 years should not simply be emptied from that region. The

:21:34.:21:39.

additional military force we are bringing to this quasi policing

:21:40.:21:44.

operation, already acted over Syria, symbolically and to some extent

:21:45.:21:48.

significantly adds to what is happening there. But far more than

:21:49.:21:53.

that, it enables us to act where I were resources and expertise are

:21:54.:21:59.

world leading in the creation of post-conflict peace and

:22:00.:22:06.

nation-building. Only a holistic, the logical and global policy will

:22:07.:22:12.

achieve our aims. If you launch war, you'd want unpredictability. The

:22:13.:22:18.

best we are deciding on today is, on the balance of probabilities, this

:22:19.:22:21.

is the best opportunity we will have. There are no certainties. The

:22:22.:22:25.

second by Taiwan to make is, if we are successes -- successful in

:22:26.:22:32.

removing eyesore and creating the ability in Syria, it will be messy

:22:33.:22:36.

and won't look very nice. But peace we will be able to create, might be

:22:37.:22:41.

able to create. Probably the only thing you can say about the peace is

:22:42.:22:46.

that it will be better than the war it ended. What good does bombing do?

:22:47.:22:52.

It makes the people who make bombs happy. But it invites retaliation,

:22:53.:22:56.

which we have had and we may get more. The biggest question I have is

:22:57.:23:02.

who are we targeting? It is fine to say we can pinpoint people with

:23:03.:23:06.

drones, we have seen that bus there an off a lot of drones out there and

:23:07.:23:12.

an awful lot of people who are being killed and blown out of their

:23:13.:23:15.

houses. If we had the most abundant at night I would vote against it and

:23:16.:23:20.

in doing so I believe I would be voting for the majority of members

:23:21.:23:26.

of my own party. Last night, when the Liberal Democrat MPs said they

:23:27.:23:30.

were going to support the Government, with various caveats,

:23:31.:23:35.

there was a ripple of surprise and shock that went through the party

:23:36.:23:40.

and some of us spent a lot of time last night talking to people who

:23:41.:23:45.

were really quite angry and felt they had been let down by their MPs.

:23:46.:23:48.

airstrikes. Now, back to the debate in the House of Commons.

:23:49.:23:54.

The debate in the House of Commons drew to a close

:23:55.:23:58.

Summing up for the opposition, Labour's Hilary Benn was in

:23:59.:24:02.

the unusual position of taking an opposite stance to his party leader.

:24:03.:24:08.

We are here faced by fascists. Not just their calculator brutality but

:24:09.:24:17.

their belief that they are superior to every single one of us in this

:24:18.:24:21.

chamber tonight and all of the people that we represent. They hold

:24:22.:24:26.

us in contempt. They hauled our values in contempt, I were belief in

:24:27.:24:33.

tolerance and decency in contempt. They hauled our democracy, the means

:24:34.:24:36.

by which will make our decision night, in contempt. And what we know

:24:37.:24:41.

about fascists is that they need to be defeated. My view, Mr Speaker, is

:24:42.:24:51.

that we must now confront this evil. It is now time for us to do

:24:52.:24:58.

our bit in Syria. That is why I ask my colleagues to a vote for this

:24:59.:25:01.

motion tonight. APPLAUSE

:25:02.:25:08.

The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond put the case

:25:09.:25:10.

What kind of a country would we be if we refused to act in the face of

:25:11.:25:21.

a threat to our security as clear as the one that I thought poses.

:25:22.:25:28.

Indeed, Mr Speaker, what kind of a country would we be if we were

:25:29.:25:33.

unmoved by the murder, the rape, the beheadings and the slavery that

:25:34.:25:38.

Islamic State imposes on its subjects. What kind of a country

:25:39.:25:46.

would we be if we ignored the calls for help from our nearest

:25:47.:25:50.

neighbours, even as they grieve for their dead.

:25:51.:25:56.

That's all from me for now. From me, Georgina Pattinson,

:25:57.:26:00.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS