02/03/2016 Wednesday in Parliament

Hello and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament.

David Cameron faces questions about Europe while the Labour leader

accuses him of not delivering on education.

One third of families promised 30-hours free childcare now won't

receive it. This is a broken promise.

While David Cameron mocks Labour for taking economic advice

from the former Greek Finance Minister.

That is Labour's policy in two words.

We're used to arguments about rich versus poor,

A committee of MPs looks at the idea of intergenerational fairness.

There's outrage in the Commons as an MP discovers that British

Imagine it, you open your distinguished service order or CBE

it says made in France. Every day at Westminster brings

a new salvo in the debate On Wednesday morning,

the Government published an analysis of the UK's options if it left

the EU, suggesting they would all be worse for the economy

than staying in. But Iain Duncan Smith -

one of five Cabinet ministers campaigning in favour

of a vote to leave the EU - said the Government was "in denial"

about the risk of remaining a member, adding that, "this dodgy

dossier won't fool anyone." It was the SNP's Westminster

leader who raised Europe Millions of UK citizens live

elsewhere in the European Union. European decisions have helped the

environment. Relations between 28EU member states happens often

imperfectly but through dialogue and agreement which surely is a huge

improvement on confrontation and wars of the past. Will the Prime

Minister concentrate on the positive arguments for EU membership and

reject the approach of Project Fear? My arguments about being stronger in

the reformed European Union, safer in the reformed European Union, and

better off in the reformed European Union are all positive arguments. I

would add the point he makes, that of course things like pollution

crosses borders and so it makes sense to work together. I think the

fundamental point he makes is one worth thinking about. He and I are

both post-war children. But we should never forget, when we sit

around that table, just 70 years ago, these countries were murdering

each other on the continent of Europe. For five or six years,

national insurance numbers issued to EU migrants have been hundreds of

thousands higher than the official immigration figures. This emplies

the official immigration figures may a dramatic underestimate. We can

only know the truth of the matter if they release the data on active EU

national insurance numbers, they have refused to do. Will the Prime

Minister instruct HMRC to release the statistics immediately so we can

understand the truth of EU immigration? You can get a national

insurance number for a short-term visit. People who are already here

but without a national insurance number can apply for them. These

numbers are complex. The HMRC has given greater information I will

continue to make sure that continues to be the case.

Away from Europe, the Labour leader focussed on childcare

for three and four-year-olds in England.

The national audit report confirms one third of families promised

30-hours free childcare now won't receive it. This is a broken

promise. The report also warns that many childcare providers are not

offering the new entitlement due to insufficient funding. There are

41,000 three-year-olds missing out on free early education as a result

of this. Will the Prime Minister intervene and ensure those children

get the start in life that they deserve? We want all of these

children to have the start in life they deserve. I'm glad he mentioned

the National Audit Office report. Let me read him some of the things

it says. "The department has successfully implebened the

entitlement to free childcare with three or four-year-olds with almost

takeup." We should be congratulating the Secretary of State.

David Cameron turned on Jeremy Corbyn's economic strategy.

I can announce to the House, his adviser, he was the Greek Finance

Minister who left his economy in ruins. That is Labour's policy in

two words. Acropolis now. Jeremy Corbyn moved onto the number

of teachers in England's schools, accusing David Cameron of being

in denial over teacher shortages. When 70% of Head teachers warned

they are now having to use agency staff to staff their classrooms,

isn't it time the Government intervened and looked at the real

cost of this, which is damage to children's education, but also 1.3

billion spent last year on agency teachers? If you want to look at

enkourageing people to go into teaching you have to know you have a

good school system with more academies, free schools and higher

qualifications making sure we have rigour and discipline in our

classroom. All of which improved. That is only possible if you have a

strong and growing economy to fund the schools that our children need.

David Cameron. The Government has defended a review

of the state pension age which will look at whether or not

it will need to rise A former head of the CBI,

John Cridland, will lead the first Experts have suggested people

joining the workforce now may have to wait until their mid-70s before

they can retire. Labour have said such a review

could throw the plans of millions But the Work and Pensions Secretary

told MPs there'd be no immediate change and ministers had to respond

to rising life expectancy. Future generations would rightly

expect that we should reflect those changes in the nature of how we set

the pension. and they wouldn't thank us,

I think - and we very rarely hear anybody talk about future

generations - but they would not thank us if we didn't take the right

decisions at the right time and have the courage to ensure

pensions are sustainable, to avoid them having to pick

up an increasing bill which would make their lives

even more difficult. Finally, Mr Speaker,

can the Minister tell us what he thinks the upper limit

is for the state pension age? Is it 80, as his former colleague,

the Pensions Minister, warned today? Isn't it the truth, Mr Speaker,

that the new pension promise is not the 75p they're always banging

about, it's the 75 years you'll have to work and wait under this

Tory Government before Mr Duncan Smith reminded Labour it

had agreed to regular reviews and described that response

as "utter idiocy." Can I just say to the House that

I think, sadly, he gives a bad That was so pathetic as a response

to a u-cue that was asked from an opposition that has no

policy, jumps around opposing everything, racking up

spending commitments. No wonder they haven't a hope

in hell of being in Government. Healthy life expectancy is not

rising at the same speed In fact, the gap between

the two is widening. Given the Government's reductions

in support for sick and disabled people of working-age,

indeed changes we're due to discuss later today, can we have any

confidence that further increases pension age will not simply condemn

thousands of older people with serious health conditions

to an impoverished old age on state benefits prior to their

official retirement? Inevitably, there are bound to be

loud complaints from those who are so unlucky that they're born

at a stage when they're just affected by the change,

but a Government has a duty to proceed in the interests

of the country and in the interests of future generations of working

taxpayers who will not be able to afford to sustain our system

unless we respond to reality. I'm not going to get angry,

but I am going to gently point out to the Secretary of State

that he Is quite wrong to say that there is a

consensus about this. Indeed, he has broken the consensus

he put in place with the excellent former Pensions Minister,

Steve Webb, because that agreement was that the independent reviews

that would happen every five years would look at life expectancy

and fairness of those paying in. But he's now introducing

affordability into that, which was not part of that,

as well as bringing it forward. Will the Secretary of State rule out

the prospect of the retirement age being increased to 84

as a result of this review, as was predicted by the previous

Pensions Minister, Steve Webb? Mr Speaker, is there any limit

that this Government is prepared to set on the upper limit

of the state retire am age? It is that somehow that her party

opposes an independent and regular I hear the frontbench shouting

"rigged." The only thing rigged

here is the way that he got onto the frontbench to be

the Opposition spokesman. Meanwhile, a committee of MPs has

been looking at where the balance lies between making life better

for young people and improving it The Work and Pensions Committee

is looking at the issue Its first witnesses were two

ex-ministers with an interest David Willetts is a former

Universities Minister, who's recently written a book

on intergenerational issues, and Steve Webb is a former

Pensions Minister. In terms of the two crucial assets

people build up during their working lives, both owning a home

and having a funded pension, much harder for the younger

generation to get started When we look at someone who's 60ish

and looks relatively comfortable, I think the wrong conclusion

would be, therefore, because 20-year-olds are struggling

to get on the housing ladder, and here's a comfortable

60-year-old, therefore we must break the triple-lock on the pension

or scrap the winter fuel Not recognising that the 60-year-old

was probably 20, when we had 30, when we we had mass unemployment

in the 80s. You know, if she's a woman,

she may well have started work when there wasn't even legislation

to stop discrimination against women So the challenge I think

for the inquiry, is to see people over the course of their whole lives

and I think then you get a rich Nowadays, those challenges that,

I hope across parties we believe in, owning your own home,

settling down, building up a funded pension,

those things which were pretty much automatic are now massive policy

issues and challenges. I think, in the long run,

a society where people are getting into their 30s or older and don't

have a place of their own and haven't got a funded pension,

is one where the younger generation Feel that then they're getting

a raw deal. So, just generally, your views

on Government policies, have they helped or hindered this

problem? We've had a decline

in the number of mature students So in places where different

generations mix, if you look at the UK kind of social attitudes

evidence, we are more We're more likely to work

alongside people our own age, study alongside them, have houses

and accommodation alongside them. That does make it easier for these

kind of pictures of a different age group to build up, including I think

often very unfair caricatures Could I just add one point to that,

if I may. Normally, the National Pensioners

Convention gave people like me a hard time,

but their strategy on this issue is really quite surprising because,

rather than just bang on for pensioners, they have

specifically allied themselves So that rather than have

this kind of battle, they've sort of said, actually,

our generation do care So do you think that

intergenerational distribution of wealth of income is a more

pressing issue than disparities I think that the danger of -

I mean, at the risk... Someone said the other day,

they were quoted as saying. At 64, I was a benefits scrounger,

at 65 I was a national treasure. Suddenly, you know,

all the pensioners we see Actually, we are hugely

diverse within generations. There's been virtually no increase

in employment for young There's barely been an increase

for middle aged people. The surge in employment has been

amongst the over 60s. There are lots of pensioners

who are also working. That's where the labour market

flexibilities have really Indeed, one quarter of all free

pensioner bus pass journeys in London are older people

travelling to work. Despite, you know, very vast

and sort of deep intellectual argument about the intergenerational

challenges, the bottom line is that the political imperative

around propensity to vote amongst older people trumps any analysis

that either of you have. I mean, we can discuss this as long

as we like but you know, as well as I do,

that's the imperative. The worst advice young people ever

got was Russell Brand telling them That was such bad advice when,

in reality, you're right, I do think older people worry now

about their children and grandchildren and we partly got

into this mess because we just We just didn't think when pensions

were being regulated more and more heavily,

does this mean that there won't be any funded company pensions

for the next generation? So I think that when be you get

people into this cast of mind, You're watching Wednesday

in Parliament, here on BBC Parliament, with me,

Alicia McCarthy. How should Europe respond

to the migrant crisis? Thousands of migrants have amassed

in Greece after neighbouring On Monday, hundreds tried to break

through, but were blocked by Macedonian police

who fired tear gas at them. The European Commission has

announced a multi-million-pound emergency aid programme to help

Greece and other countries overwhelmed by an

influx of migrants. In the Commons, an SNP MP

asked an urgent question. The International Development

Secretary said there would be But as the Secretary of State agree

that rubber bullets and tear gas does not amount to an appropriate

response and Greece cannot manage the situation alone? This country

has a proud and honourable tradition that is being honoured now. The EU

response has been chaotic and the honourable gentleman is right.

Rubber bullets and tear gas against children is not the answer. When my

Mac and my right honourable friend seek to convene a European meeting

to garner a holistic response. That would be a summit to come up with a

more appropriate response. What is the Government doing to work with

fellow members of the European family of nations to be more

effective against the people traffickers? Provide a safe routes

for refugees and above all how can we turn our backs on the people of

Greece who risked being overwhelmed because of the absence of a

strategic approach and humanitarian approach to this issue by all of the

EU nations, including the UK? I think I would strongly disagree with

her last statement because the reality is we are the largest

contributor to the humanitarian response in Europe. We are working

across the EU to ensure this humanitarian crisis is averted and

the most vulnerable people are protected and given shelter. We are

monitoring the situation closely and stand ready to meet other priority

On the backbenches there were calls for the Government to take more

of the migrants, including unaccompanied children.

I remain convinced we have a greater leadership role to play in ensuring

Greece is supported and not left to be abandoned by the rest of Europe,

which is what is happening now. In the mix of all, sorry mess there are

unaccompanied, let's call them what they really are, orphaned children

who are still there and in need of our care and I believe the UK and

other countries have moral obligation to house them. Blankets

are not enough. Last year there were 19,000 unaccompanied children

registered and applied for asylum in Europe. Does that not demonstrate

the modesty of the col botanist country to take 3000? Surely this

the time when the Government should say yes to that very modest call for

say yes to that very modest call for political leadership?

The Government's policy is to take migrants from camps in countries

neighbouring Syria and not those who have fled to Europe.

A number of Conservatives congratulated the Government

The refugees we see from the Middle East are the victims of terrorists

and traffickers and simply, to take refugees who have already made the

safety of Europe into the UK is playing into the hands of those

traffickers that are appallingly exploiting people.

Down the corridor in the Lords, it was the turn of peers to debate

the forthcoming referendum on our EU membership.

In a wide ranging discussion, one former EU commissioner strongly

supported the deal David Cameron had done.

Once the die is cast, there will be no turning back.

We cannot leave the European Union and for economic and trade purposes

be treated as if we are still in it, that is the unescapable fact

The case for getting out seems to me to rest on a strangely

old-fashioned, almost Victorian, view of sovereignty -

of Bagehot and Dicey, when all power rested

I suspect that there is now more power resting on the global stage

today that affects the lives of ordinary citizens than is vested

in the institutions of nation states like ourselves.

Nothing is-not our local councils, not our own families or football

clubs, not even your Lordships' House.

Does that mean we should opt out of them too?

The EU does need reform, which is why we need to be right

there on the pitch as a key player, not sitting in the stands,

moaning as a spectator and suffering in cold isolation.

The problem is that we are not and cannot be on the sidelines.

Whether we like it or not, we are and will remain on the pitch.

We therefore have a vested interest in helping to deliver

Those of us who wish to leave the EU are asked to say

what our alternative is to our membership,

The alternative to being a member of the European Union is not

being a member of the European Union.

It may come as a great shock to the little Europeans

in our midst, but most of the world, including significantly

the fastest-growing countries in the world, are not

I have come to the conclusion that in its present form the EU is a

flawed project which is making its inhabitants worse off than they

should be and because it is failing, contrary to what has been said by

The Health and Safety Executive has censured the Ministry of Defence

over the deaths of three soldiers in 2013 on an SAS training exercise.

The Executive said that but for Crown Immunity,

125 service personnel died on training exercises between 2000

and 2015 and the Commons Defence sub committee is conducting an inquiry:

During this enquiry we have heard some conflicting views. Improved

design and delivery of training and better regulation of who is

responsible has been expressed but we have also been told there is a

higher rate of injury and fatalities while practising for war than in

combat and we were told a blase attitude to attrition rates,

particularly in training. How do these statements fit together? I

would question some of those statements. I think, I can

understand if you are trying to make a judgment about this why you might

compare this on operations to those in training, but I would say that is

not a helpful comparison. Clearly, though there will be undiagnosed

heart conditions, things that arrives, you want to mitigate all

deaths in training. I think one of the key point I would make is unless

you have training that is rigorous enough and exposes people to the

kind of thing they will experience in combat, you are failing in your

duty of care to them. Nobody on the committee and not myself, we

shouldn't waste time in stating the obvious. No one has a problem of

arduous training. Everybody understands that in order to perform

on operations you must have your training at the set levels. The

problem I have got is some of that governors about that training,

something has gone wrong and that is what we're trying to get to bottom

of. We have had a number of concerns expressed to us about the ability of

the MOD to police itself when it comes to Armed Forces in training.

When I have looked at particular cases where there have been deaths

and training it has been because policy has not been bowled, ought

the wrong people have been carrying out particular training, a catalogue

of feelings, and we need to look at why that happened, why it does not

happen in other places and we must address that. I am confident that

although there are still enquiry is going on into some incidents that

have taken place, where we have identified why a particular thing

wasn't followed or buy a particular individual wasn't conducting that

aspect of training, those measures have been identified.

Finally, Back to prime minister's questions,

where a Labour Mp was outraged by the discovery of where British

People in the Midlands are furious to learn that the Government have

awarded a contract to make British medals to some French company.

Imagine opening your Distinguished Service Order

or your CBE to find "Fabrique en France" on it.

I have visited Midlands' medal manufacturers in Birmingham's

jewellery quarter, and they are the best in the world.

The Prime Minister should go back to Downing Street,

call in the Cabinet Office Minister and get this scandal sorted out.

The only point I would make is that I am sure that all those

in the Royal Mint in Wales would want to contest that claim

and argue that they make the final medals in the United Kingdom.

I am sure the competition between them and Birmingham is intense.

I will certainly take away what the

I was not aware of the issue, but where we can make

something in Britain, we should make it in Britain.

is it for now but join me at the same time tomorrow, including a

debate on gangs and youth violence. Until then, goodbye.