04/05/2016 Wednesday in Parliament


04/05/2016

Highlights of proceedings in Parliament on Wednesday 4 May, presented by Keith Macdougall.


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Hello, welcome to Wednesday In Parliament,

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our look at the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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On this programme, with hours to go before polling across the UK,

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the political temperature rises at PMQs.

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David Cameron issues a challenge to Jeremy Corbyn.

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He must stand up and say they are not his friends.

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Anyone that commits racist acts or is anti-Semitic

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is not a friend of mine, it is very clear about that.

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Foreign correspondents describe their fears

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Given how the fight will go, both from the defenders

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and the attackers, Mosul, I believe, will be pretty bloody awful.

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And, harmless joke or a tasteless insult?

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The story of the German comedian gets an airing

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Chancellor Merkel, under pressure from President Erdogan,

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has agreed that this prosecution can go forward because she is desperate

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But first, it is only a matter of hours before the polling stations

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open in elections of different sorts around the United Kingdom.

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One issue has loomed large in the last fortnight

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of campaigning, namely claims and counterclaims of anti-Semitism

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The MP, Naz Shah, was suspended from the party last week, saying

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on Facebook that Israel should be moved to America.

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In the Commons, at Prime Minister's Questions,

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David Cameron was keen to keep the focus on the issue.

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He repeatedly pressed Jeremy Corbyn over remarks the Labour Leader had

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once made about the militant Islamic groups Hezbollah and Hamas.

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First, Jeremy Corbyn spoke about commemorations about to take

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place for Israel's Day of Remembrance for Holocaust victims.

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I hope there is an agreement right across all parts of this House

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in sending our best wishes to those commemorating the occasion

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and sending a very clear statement that anti-Semitism has no place

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in our society whatsoever and we all have a duty to oppose it.

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Let me join the right honourable gentleman in saying, yes, of course,

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we should always support Holocaust Memorial Day,

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whether it is here in the United Kingdom,

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where we have a number of commemorations,

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But I am going to press him on this point because he did say this.

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He said, it will be my pleasure and my honour to host an event

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in parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking.

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I have also invited friends from Hamas to come

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Hamas and Hezbollah believe in killing Jews.

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Not just in Israel, but around the world.

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Because if he wants to clear up the problem of anti-Semitism

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in the Labour Party, now is a good time to start.

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Mr Speaker, I have made it very clear, Labour is an anti-racist

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party and there is no place for anti-Semitism within it.

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We have suspended any members that have undertaken any anti-Semitic

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activities or work or statements and have established an enquiry

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The points he was making earlier relate to a discussion I was hosting

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in order to try to promote a peace process and it was not an approval

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of those organisations, I absolutely do not approve

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But I am afraid he is going to have to do this one more time.

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He referred to Hamas and Hezbollah as has friends.

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Now, he needs to withdraw that remark.

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Are they your friends or are they not?

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Because those organisations, in their constitutions,

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believe in persecuting and killing Jews.

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They are anti-Semitic organisations, they are racist organisations,

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he must stand up and say they are not his friends.

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Mr Speaker, obviously anyone that commits racist acts

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or is anti-Semitic is not a friend of mine.

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And, at this point, Jeremy Corbyn moved to the battle between two

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of the candidates in this week's election for who will succeed

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Those candidates being Zac Goldsmith for the Tories and

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The Labour leader accused the Conservatives of

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smearing Sadiq Khan, who is the MP for Tooting.

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I would make this argument, as I said before at this

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Despatch Box, we are not responsible for everything someone says

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We cannot control everyone who appears in a picture

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but there is a pattern of behaviour with the honourable

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Let me tell him, he shared a platform with Sajeel Shahid,

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the man who trained the ringleader of the 7/7 attacks and accused

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the United States of bringing 9/11 on themselves.

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He shared a platform with an extremist who called

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When this was put to the honourable member for Tooting,

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He described it as mere flowery language.

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If he wants to know why he has a problem with anti-Semitism,

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it is because his candidates share platform after platform

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after a platform with extremists and anti-Semites and then

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One more time, say you withdraw the remark about Hamas

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Mr Speaker, last week the Prime Minister tried,

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as he often does, to smear my friend, the member for Tooting

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by his association with Solomon Ghani.

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It turns out that Mr Ghani is actually an active

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Who has shared platforms with the honourable

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He also should reflect on the words said by Lord Lansley some years ago

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that racism was endemic within his party.

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We have set up a commission of enquiry, I suggest he might think

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David Cameron had with him remarks made by Solomon Ghani.

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Do you want to know the views of the person that your

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leader has just quoted? He described women...

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The honourable member for Islington might be interested in this.

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He described women as subservient to men.

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He said that homosexuality was an unnatural act.

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He stood on a platform with people who wanted an Islamic State.

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That is why his attempts to deal with anti-Semitism are utterly

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Because he won't even condemn people who sit on platforms

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with people like that. Jeremy Corbyn.

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Mr Speaker, I did point out to the Prime Minister,

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I was actually trying to help him, that the gentleman concerned

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So maybe he would care to think about that.

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He might also consider that Shazia Awan, a former Conservative

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parliamentary candidate, said this of the Tory mayoral campaign.

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"A lifelong Tory voter and ex-candidate, I am ashamed

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The Prime Minister, this Government, has cut income tax for the richest.

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Cut capital-gains tax, cut corporation tax

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At every turn, they make the wrong choices.

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Tomorrow people can make their own choices.

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About the crisis of social care, the housing crisis in this country.

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The unprecedented cuts to local councils in areas of greatest need.

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The cuts to further education, taking opportunities away

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The choices have been made, they cut taxes for the rich.

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We want to ensure that there is proper taxation to ensure

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there are decent services for the rest.

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He's right, tomorrow is about choices.

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You can choose a party that is on the side of security

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That wants to make sure there are more jobs,

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better pay, lower taxes, good schools for your children,

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a seven-day NHS there for you when you need it.

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Or the other choice, you can back a party that puts

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That is utterly incapable of providing the leadership

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your local council needs or our country needs.

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Well, a little later at Prime Minister's Questions,

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David Cameron disclosed that ministers are in talks

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with the Save The Children charity about what more Britain can do

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to help unaccompanied child refugees from Syria.

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There are been threats of a Conservative rebellion over

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the refusal, up to now, of the Government to take child

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So far, the Government has only been willing to take children

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The SNP's leader at Westminster quoted Sir Eric Reich,

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chairman of the Association of Jewish Refugees Kindertransport

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He wrote, the echoes of the past haunt many of my

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Whose fate similarly rested with members

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I feel it is incumbent on us to once again demonstrate our compassion

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and human kindness to provide sanctuary to those in need.

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Why has it taken so long, and the threat of a parliamentary

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defeat, for the Prime Minister to begin changing his mind?

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We are already taking child migrants in Europe with a direct family

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connection to the UK and we will speed that up.

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I am also talking to Save The Children to see what we can

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do more, particularly with children who came here before the EU

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Because, as I say again, what I don't want us to do

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is to take steps that will encourage people to make this

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Otherwise, our actions, however well-meaning they will be,

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could result in more people dying, rather than more people

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Mr Speaker, last week I accused the Prime Minister of walking

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by on the other side when he stoutly defended his then policy opposing

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further help from unaccompanied refugee children in Europe.

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So if what we are hearing now is indeed the beginnings

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of a U-turn, I very much welcome it, as I'm sure the members

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May I encourage him to think more about what can be done given,

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of course, that the Kindertransport helped 10,000 children from Europe?

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Will I asked the Prime Minister, finally, to take the opportunity

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to thank Lord Alf Dubs and all campaigners who have worked

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so hard for the UK to live up to the example and the spirit

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I certainly think that all those people deserve recognition

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for the work they have done to put this issue so squarely

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But let me just say again, I do reject the comparison

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For this reason, I would argue that what we are doing, primarily,

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taking children from the region, taking vulnerable people

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from the camps, going to the neighbouring countries

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and taking people into our country, housing them, clothing,

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feeding them, making sure they can have a good life here,

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that to me is like the Kindertransport.

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To say that the Kindertransport is taking today children from France

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or Germany or Italy, safe countries that are democracies,

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I think that is an insult to those countries.

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As I have said, because of the steps we are taking, it will not be

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necessary to send the amendment back to the other place,

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the amendment doesn't now mentioned a number of people.

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We are now going to go round the local authorities and see

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what more we can do but let's stick to the principle that we should not

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And, outside the chamber, Downing Street explained that

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children registered in Greece, Italy or France, before

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the EU-Turkey deal was signed last month, would be

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Well, the Immigration Minister, James Brokenshire, said Britain

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is not bound to sign up to new EU rules on asylum seekers.

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The European Commission plans to alter what is called

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These state that asylum applications should be considered in the first

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country in the European union that a claimant reaches.

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The European Commission wants it changed so that the continent

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is better able to deal with a future refugee crisis.

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And to ease the burden on front line countries like Greece.

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Mr Brokenshire was answering an urgent question in the Commons.

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As the House will be aware, the UK has an opt-in to any EU

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proposals on justice and home affairs issues.

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It is not bound to sign up to the proposals the commission has

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published today and we will have three months to consider

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In practice, the Dublin Agreement is very far from perfect and the EU

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is desperate to find ways of evening out the strains of the large numbers

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of asylum seekers as well as not rocking the British boat

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Even the European Commission has acknowledged that the current Dublin

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system doesn't work, Germany has all but abandoned it

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and Greece has not abided by it apparently since 2011.

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In relation to the benefit, yes, we do see significant benefit

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from the existing Dublin regulations and, as I have indicated,

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we have sought to remove nearly 12,000 people from the UK to other

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EU member states over the last ten years, using that process.

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It is also clear we have got a keen national interest and a moral

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responsibility to ensure that effective systems are in place

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to tackle the worst humanitarian crisis in a decade in Europe.

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A humanitarian crisis on a scale that clearly needs

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It's clear the Dublin arrangements are not working on the ground.

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Dublin arrangements are not able to cope with the numbers

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and to process the claims the need to be processed.

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and to process the claims that need to be processed.

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We, Labour, have been calling for a reconsideration of how

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the Dublin arrangements actually work in practice for many months

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The Government, as ever, has been slow and reluctant to act,

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characterised by the involuntary appearance here today.

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The Government believes the long-standing principles

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at the heart of the Dublin system are the right ones.

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And it would be a major error to tear them up and replace them

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Dublin may not be operating as it should but that does

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not mean its principles are fundamentally flawed.

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The migrant crisis we face is our part of a crisis that affects

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every European Union member state and it requires

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It is a complete absurdity, first promulgated by Ukip,

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that somehow if we left the EU these people would no longer be

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I know the minister is very proud of his opt-in but,

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in reply for to the right honourable member for Rushcliffe,

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he seemed to agree that, in principle, the refugee crisis

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is a European crisis that requires collective action.

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Therefore, if we were having the Brokenshire regulations instead

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of the Dublin regulations, what exactly would they be?

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I'm very grateful to honourable gentleman for framing

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I think what it underlines is the need for each EU member state

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to play a part, which is precisely what the UK Government is doing.

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But first, it was a busy day in Parliament for David Cameron.

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It seems to me the right thing to do is to make sure that if there is a

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website, a government website, then it is not refreshed or updated

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during the period of purdah, but I would just ask whether it is right

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to take something down. It seems that is rather an extreme position

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but I want to understand your concerns about that. Well, in the

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case in 1937... Leaving a notice on a golf club notice board is a

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continuing at of publication. And in other more recent rulings, every

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time the server is hit by another request for a page that constitutes

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republication of the material. So I think you will find you cannot keep

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up that website. Well, we will look at our legal advice and respond to

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our letter -- your letter. If we can raise the funds, expect a writ.

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Moving on... The trade union Bill... LAUGHTER

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Better get back to the office fast, then! It seemed reasonable to me,

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taking down a website is like saying you have to remove other

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publications people might have from the government or whatever. Correct.

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I visited a girl's school that had been bombed on sports day in Aleppo.

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One bomb had hurled a girl against the wall

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and blasted, in black, her outline there, so there was just

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at the end of the school corridor the outline

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of a girl of about nine or ten years old, blasted, her silhouette,

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That sort of stuff happens the whole time.

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It is a terrible vision, it's very

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difficult to actually explain to people here because it is so

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And there was a warning worse. Come if no soul fell.

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We should also prepare ourselves for how bad Mosul will

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The word Stalingrad is banded around far too much by the

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media and elsewhere but Mosul really has the potential to be really quite

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catastrophic given how the fight will go,

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both from the defenders and

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Mosul will, I believe, be pretty bloody awful.

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Is it important in the fight against Isis to actually take

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One of the things that the Islamic State

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says is it is a state, its ideology is, we

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Other people have talked about a caliphate, doing

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something other, we have established a real Islamic State.

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This is a big ideological blow if that state goes

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They are different from other types of

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Secondly, it is important in terms of security, the

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terrorist attacks we have seen in Brussels, in Paris, potentially

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here, what makes them different from terrorist

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attacks we have seen in the past is they have the resources

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of what is a de facto organised state behind them.

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Do you think Russia's action has ensured that Assad is

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And should we accept that as the new norm and

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The evil genius of what Putin has done

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Once Assad cannot lose, eventually, the other side, I

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believe, it will filter down, and that means he cannot win.

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believe, it will filter down, and that means we cannot win.

:21:15.:21:20.

There was also evidence that they had approached the conflict in the

:21:21.:21:23.

wrong way. We had Egypt, we had

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Libya, two leaders had I think the political

:21:26.:21:27.

class looked at that, grandstanding, left,

:21:28.:21:30.

right and centre. Demanded President Assad should go,

:21:31.:21:31.

that put his back against the wall and gave him nowhere to go

:21:32.:21:34.

whatsoever and I think it was a mistake for us to be calling

:21:35.:21:37.

all the time go, go, go. It is a mistake we have been

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repeating for five, six We have now got ourselves

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into the position where we say, yeah, you could go, sort of, a bit,

:21:44.:21:46.

but not necessarily right now. Forgive me for the extended rant

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but it was a political mistake that the political class

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needs to think much harder about Do you really want to

:21:57.:21:58.

push this person into You have to keep talking to Russia

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and, as I was saying earlier, I think Russia and the significance

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of Russian relationship with Assad, there is a positive

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side to that in that of outside decisions

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in What I also want to say

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is that, regardless of outside decisions

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foreign policy, war is not something when it is that long-term and that

:22:33.:22:37.

intense that can just be turned off like a tap by outside powers.

:22:38.:22:40.

War is about what goes on on the street,

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what goes on in a village and what goes on in a valley.

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The emotions in this conflict are far hotter than

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can be doused by just some foreign policy decision.

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Now, a German comedian is being investigated by prosecutors

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after reading out an obscene poem on his TV show about

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Jan Boehmermann was aware that it included material that breaches

:22:56.:23:03.

a German law banning insulting remarks about representatives

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This man should perhaps be prosecuted for obscenity and it

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appears that Chancellor Merkel, under pressure from the president,

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has agreed that this prosecution can go forward because she is desperate

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for Turkish assistance on the migrant issue. Now, my lords... We

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are told we have great influence in the EU, so could Her Majesty's

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government use that great influence to insure this prosecution does not

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take place? Will tell Chancellor Merkel and the Germans to resist any

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pressure, to resist blackmail and not to kowtow to President Burda

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one, whose record on human rights and free speech is frankly

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lamentable? -- President erred again. It is ultimately for the

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people of Germany to implement and set their own laws and the

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Chancellor has referred his matter, as is proper, to the security of

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authorities for them to make the decision. The President of Turkey is

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using a sledgehammer to crush a comic. And in so doing and seeking

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to exert pressure upon Angela Merkel he is making it clear that he is

:24:36.:24:41.

presenting himself more, indeed, as the head of a caliphate, a medieval

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caliphate, rather than the leader of a modern country that is desperately

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aspiring to be a member of the EU. Now, is there too much academic

:24:56.:25:01.

pressure on young children? This week there has been a boycott of

:25:02.:25:04.

exams and the exams have been criticised forcing children to learn

:25:05.:25:09.

details of English grammar that only of detailed -- limited use. This

:25:10.:25:16.

point was distracted at PMQs. For the benefit of the House and ten

:25:17.:25:19.

and 11-year-olds up and down the country, will the Prime Minister

:25:20.:25:25.

explain what the past progressive tenses, will he differentiate

:25:26.:25:29.

between a coordinating conjunctive and his definition of a modal verb?

:25:30.:25:36.

The whole point of these changes is to make sure our children are better

:25:37.:25:42.

educated than we are. And that's why I'm delighted with three children at

:25:43.:25:46.

state schools going off to do these tests and I am delighted they are

:25:47.:25:50.

going to be. And finally an MP raise the case of

:25:51.:25:56.

his 100-year-old mother. Four years ago I asked my right honourable

:25:57.:26:00.

friend on behalf of my mother, Maud, in the EU referendum that the vote

:26:01.:26:04.

be brought forward because of her age. She was then 100. She now

:26:05.:26:09.

wishes to know if she needs to set a world record for longevity before

:26:10.:26:13.

Chilcott report is published! LAUGHTER

:26:14.:26:24.

I think I can reassure her that this summer she will have, I think, a

:26:25.:26:29.

double opportunity to deal with these things. A referendum on June

:26:30.:26:33.

the 23rd, and I'm sure the Chilcott report will, not too much longer

:26:34.:26:38.

after that. I rather imagine she will then want a backbench business

:26:39.:26:44.

committee debate on the matter! That is it from us. Join us for our

:26:45.:26:49.

next daily round-up and enjoy polling day. From me, goodbye.

:26:50.:26:56.

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