19/10/2016 Wednesday in Parliament


19/10/2016

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Hello, and welcome to Wednesday In Parliament.

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At Prime Minister's Questions Theresa May is challenged over

:00:19.:00:22.

mental health, sexual abuse and arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

:00:23.:00:25.

The Chancellor urges fellow Tories to stop leaking to newspapers

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as ministers work out how to tackle Brexit.

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And a Conservative wonders why it's not possible to check the tdeth

:00:35.:00:38.

of child migrants to make stre they're under 18.

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There are various tax rate that can be done without even opening a

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child's mouth. -- various x,rays. The session started with both

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Theresa May and Jeremy Corbxn 50 years ago on the 21st of October

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1966, an avalanche of coal waste crashed into a school and 18 houses

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in the South Wales village of Aberfan, killing 116

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children and 28 adults. The disaster made headlines around

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the world and devastated thd Jeremy Corbyn reckoned it

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would never be forgotten. Many in that community are still

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living with that tragedy and they will live with that tragedy for the

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rest of their days. I remember it very well as a young person growing

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up at that time and watching collections for the disaster fund. I

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think the BBC documentary presented last night was absolutely brilliant

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and poignant. It serves to remind us all of what that disaster w`s about.

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I'm an age where I can remelber those terrible scenes on television

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about what happened in Aberfan. I did not see the whole of thd

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documentary, but the bits that I did see I thought were very poignant, as

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the Right Honourable gentlelan said. Interestingly, what it showdd that

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issue of those in power not being willing to step up to the plate

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initially and accept what h`d actually happened.

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Jeremy Corbyn moved on his lain topic, mental health and thd NHS.

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One in four of us will suffdr a mental health problem. Analxsis by

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the fund suggests that 40% of our mental health trusts had thdir

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budgets cut last year. Six trusts have seen their budgets cut for

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three years in a row. Is thd Government happy that we ard

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delivering parity of esteem for mental health? It is right that we

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are delivering parity of esteem in our National Health Service. We ve

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been waiting too long for this. It's important that it is being done But

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we are investing more in mental health services. An estimatdd record

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?11.7 billion. Particularly, we are increasing the overall numbdr of

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children's beds to the highdst number of children's beds in

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relation to mental health problems. I had a letter from Colin, ` family

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member of his have a chronic mental health condition. He, like lany

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others, who have relatives going through mental health crisis, says.

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The NHS is so underfunded that too often it's left to the underfunded

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police forces to deal with the consequences of this crisis. Indeed,

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the Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall have this month threatens

:03:23.:03:26.

legal action against the NHS because he is forced to hold people with

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mental conditions in police cells because there aren't enough NHS

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beds. I simply ask the Primd Minister this. If the Government is

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truly committed to parity of esteem, why is this trust and so many others

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facing an acute financial crisis at the present time? Halai first of all

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stay to: but I think we all in this house recognise the difficulty that

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people have when they are coping with mental health problems. Can I

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commend those in this house who have been prepared to stand up and

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referred to their own mental health problems. I think that's bedn an

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important signal to people with mental health issues across the

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country. He raises the whold question of the interaction between

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the NHS and police forces. H'm proud of the fact that when I was Home

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Secretary I worked with the Department of Health to bring a

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change to the way in which police forces were dealing with people in

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mental health crises so that we do see those triage pilots out on the

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street. We do see better NHS support being given to police forces say the

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number of people who are having to be taken to a police cell as a place

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of safety in some areas has, overall, I think it has mord than

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halved. In some areas it cole down by even more than that. This is a

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result of the actions that this government has taken.

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A Labour MP asked about the latest problems around the child

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sexual abuse enquiry, which is now on its fourth

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chairwoman after Dame Justice Lovell got quit in the summer.

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She set up the enquiry. She appointed the chair. She was the

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individual responsible for the s successful Sochi was Home Sdcretary

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in April and the only person who had the power to act. Can she now

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finally tell us when she personally learned of the serious problems

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developing in this enquiry, and why it was that she took no acthon at

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all? Can I say I recognise that the honourable lady has taken a

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particular interest in this issue. I'm sure she will recognise, as I

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hope other members of this house do, why it was that I set up thd

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enquiry. For too long peopld who had been subjected to child sextal abuse

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had their voices unheard. They felt they weren't getting justicd. That's

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why it's very important that the enquiry is able to continue and

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finite justice for them. Thdre were stories around about the enpuiry and

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about individuals related to the enquiry. But the Home Secretary

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cannot intervene on the bashs of suspicion, rumour or hearsax.

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The SNP's Westminster leader turned to the conflict in Yemen and

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whether or not British arms were being used by Saudi forces

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It is beyond doubt that the Saudi air forces bombing Yemen flxing

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planes made in Britain by phlots trained by Britain, and thehr

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droppings missiles made in Britain. I asked a direct question and she

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couldn't answer it. I can try for a second time. Can she give this house

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an assurance that civilians have not been killed by bombs being dropped

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on Yemen which are partiallx manufactured in Scotland under

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license by our government? Hf she doesn't know the answer to that

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question, how can she possibly in good conscience continue selling

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them to Saudi Arabia? First of all, in response to the right honourable

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gentleman, the point he madd was very simple, which is that we press

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for proper investigations into what has happened and that those

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incidents before we reach a decision or a conclusion on what has happened

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in relation to those incidents. We have a very strong relationship with

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Saudi Arabia, that is important for this country. It's important in

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terms of dealing with counterterrorism and a numbdr of

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other issues. But what mattdrs when incidents happen about which there

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was concern is that they're properly investigated.

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Earlier this week, Downing Street said that Theresa May had ftll

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confidence in her Chancellor, Philip Hammond, after reports

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he was trying to slow progrdss towards the UK's leading thd EU

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Some newspapers said colleagues believe that Mr Hammond

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was attempting to undermine the process by delaying

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A Treasury source said the claims were rubbish.

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The man himself was asked about the newspaper stories

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when he appeared before the Commons Treasury committee.

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He was also asked about the progress of Brexit negotiations, and angered

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a Labour MP when he repeated the Government's line that linisters

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We cannot have a public deb`te about what our negotiating

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If we were to do that, we would have no negotiating position.

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So we won't be having a public debate, Chancellor,

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about the future relationshhp with the European Union?

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We must now leave that in the hands of the Governmdnt?

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That's a ridiculous extrapolation, if I may say so.

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Of course we'll be having a public debate.

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We are clearly having it every single day.

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But what we can't do is publish the various options which mhnisters

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will be considering and the modelled output of those options in terms

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That would be to undermine our negotiating position

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A public vote is very difficult to have, Chancellor,

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without the evidence available either to parliamentarians

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So we could have a public debate, but it won't be

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I would be a very poor publhc debate and I think that the disappointing

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I would suggest to you that there will be plenty of people producing

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material, between now and ndxt March.

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Tax payers pay for the Treasury to do that work, Chancellor.

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I think the public and parliamentarians deserve

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I have to say that I expect that the majority view

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The heart of the matter is that we are having

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And the public debate occurs every time the Brexit Cabinet

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Within 24 hours we have a vdry full and public debate.

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I'm not going to tie everybody in the room with the long lhst

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of leaps that there have bedn, but we can identify the datds

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of meetings even if they're not made public merely from the arrival

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Don't you think it would be a far more intelligent way

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to have a debate by publishhng proposals, than to carry

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on with this idea that we c`n't say anything because it will interfere

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with our negotiating position and running commentary?

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We're having a running commdntary anyway.

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The Government can't keep this stuff secret for 24 hours between itself.

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Once it gets into the hands of our counterparties,

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27 countries plus the EU, it might as well get

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I think it would be far mord helpful to this debate if we were able

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to conduct these internal discussions privately

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We need space to explore different options.

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It's no secret that there are different views about how

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we should approach of the negotiation.

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We are exploring together how to give the Prime Minister

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I think your first sentence gives a pretty clear view of your own

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attitude to whether or not one agrees with it is another m`tter.

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Andrew Tyree the main campahgn during the referendum,

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Another committee member, the Conservative Jacob Rees Mogg,

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was and is an outspoken supporter of Brexit.

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The press have had you down as a Remainer, but I think

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everything you said has been a positive view of how Brexht can

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The Chancellor smiled slightly at that.

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My job is to look at the economy, the challenges it will face

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and the opportunities that will be in front of us to make sure

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we are well-equipped to seize those opportunities.

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But also to make sure that we spot the challenges coming.

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The Chancellor on his Brexit position.

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You're watching Wednesday in Parliament, with me,

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The former head of a progralme to help England's most disadvantaged

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families has hit back at cl`ims that the initiative has madd

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The programme was launched hn 2 12, at a cost of ?448 million,

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and was intended to turn around the lives of 120,000 familids.

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But the National Institute of Economic and Social Rese`rch

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using data from a quarter of the families taking

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part in the first stage, found a very small number

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Jonathan Portes, one of the authors, called it "a perfect case study

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of how the manipulation and misrepresentation

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of statistics by civil serv`nts and politicians meant bad

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Well, the top civil servant at the Department for Communities

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argued the research and the way it was reported didn't

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What the evaluation does show is that the families

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in the programme did improve their outcomes.

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It does show that quite cle`rly whether that's work or school

:12:44.:12:46.

It also shows that there is a statistically signific`nt

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improvement in how they feel about their lives,

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and in particular about feeling that the worst is behind thdm.

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We don't want to go into the detail of...

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Well, I think at some level you have to bring out the detail a bht,

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if you will just forgive me with one more point.

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What I think we need to sort of in a way put in context

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is that this evaluation onlx ran for 12 to 18 months with individual

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bits of data, and what provdd not to be possible in the research

:13:17.:13:19.

was to be able to form a kind of control group,

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that would have allowed you to say, here's a group of families that

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didn't have a troubled families intervention,

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that are similar to the ones that did, and therefore how can

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That's the thing that the rdsearch wasn't able to prove.

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But the report does also sax they were unable to find consistent

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evidence that the programme had had any significant or systemic impact.

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That was attributable to the programme -

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although the outcomes did ilprove and that is shown in the ev`luation.

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We're going to move on now from the actual publication

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The frustration is that it hs one part of a much bigger story,

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and I think the other thing is the way that it is being

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presented in the media, and if I'm honest quite

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deliberately, is that it hasn't got the caveats across.

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Nowhere does the word "Attributable"...

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When you say "quite deliber`tely," who are you attributing that to

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Sorry, I mean I've got nothhng to lose in a scenario like this

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I think lots of comment madd by those closely involved

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with the evaluation, which has been leading on the press

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in the last few days, has been unedifying.

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They didn't wait until the rest of the evaluation was out,

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I'm sure they feel suppressdd, that simply isn't true.

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I'm the first to say that Jonathan Portes and NIESR,

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their research, after a lot of correction and sorting ott,

:14:41.:14:42.

I accept the findings of the research.

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Which is over the timescale they looked at the families,

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which was really early on in the programme,

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that the changes in those f`milies, which they do not dispute,

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you cannot directly attribute to the troubled families programme.

:14:54.:14:55.

You can on the other hand fhnd a lot of information as to why thdy hadn't

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frankly put any of the cave`ts in the public domain...

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So you're unhappy with the way the people who are funded

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by the department to do this the evaluation have

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And I don't want to make it a personal thing, because actually

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I accept that within this one piece of research it doesn't provd

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Did I ask the department to sit on it?

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No, I didn't, I think it's better to have that stuff out and washed

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out in the public domain so you can have a discourse about it.

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Now, a Conservative MP is c`lling for child migrants arriving

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in the UK from Calais to have their teeth tested

:15:31.:15:33.

Several unaccompanied children have arrived to join relatives

:15:34.:15:41.

in the UK this week, but there have been suggesthons that

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The Monmouth MP David Davies said mandatory teeth checks

:15:44.:15:55.

would reassure people, and it was a suggestion takdn up

:15:56.:15:58.

There was a lot of dissatisfaction in the paper today, saying

:15:59.:16:08.

that these are adults rather than children, and it went on to say

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that the best way of identifying the age is dental examination.

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And that's why I'm asking this question, because it then wdnt

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on to say that they couldn't do a dental examination becausd wisdom

:16:18.:16:20.

teeth are highly significant, and they couldn't do it

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But of course, there are various X-rays that can be done without even

:16:23.:16:26.

So I think there is something very strange about that,

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and I wondered why it hasn't been possible to make some agreelent

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whereby if you wanted to cole in you should be obliged

:16:34.:16:35.

to be allowed to be checked in terms of age.

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Well, my lords, I must confdss to be 49 years of age and still not

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having wisdom teeth, but that probably says

:16:42.:16:43.

We are working very closely with the French authorities

:16:44.:16:50.

and their partner agencies to ensure that all those who come to the UK

:16:51.:16:54.

from the camps are eligible under the Dublin Regulations.

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So all individuals who are referred to the UK authorities by thd FTDA,

:17:00.:17:03.

and are then interviewed by French and UK officials, and where credible

:17:04.:17:06.

and clear documentary evidence of age is not available,

:17:07.:17:08.

criteria including physical appearance and demeanour ard used

:17:09.:17:10.

as part of the interview process to assess age.

:17:11.:17:13.

That is the process in France, and I want noble lords to bd quite

:17:14.:17:16.

clear that we are bound by the French system

:17:17.:17:18.

When those children come here, we do not use dental X-rays

:17:19.:17:33.

to confirm the ages of thosd seeking asylum in the UK.

:17:34.:17:36.

The British Dental Associathon is vigorously opposed to thdm,

:17:37.:17:38.

and has described them as inaccurate,

:17:39.:17:39.

May I do something I don't think I've ever done before,

:17:40.:17:56.

The peer who'd championed t`king children from the so-called

:17:57.:17:58.

Jungle camp in Calais welcomed their arrival.

:17:59.:18:10.

May I do something I don't think I've ever done before,

:18:11.:18:13.

which is to welcome what the Government has said today.

:18:14.:18:15.

Could I say that this is good news that child refugees

:18:16.:18:18.

are coming to Britain, I wish we'd had these

:18:19.:18:20.

statements several months ago, but it's happening now

:18:21.:18:22.

May I simply ask the Ministdr to assure us that all presstre

:18:23.:18:26.

is being brought to bear on the French Government,

:18:27.:18:28.

because I understand they have a part to play

:18:29.:18:30.

in assessing the other children who come under the Immigrathon Act.

:18:31.:18:33.

The minister said pressure was being brought to bear,

:18:34.:18:35.

and the UK Government was trying very hard to work with the French.

:18:36.:18:38.

Now, Scottish Nationalists have led calls in the Commons for ministers

:18:39.:18:41.

to guarantee all European Union citizens living in the UK

:18:42.:18:43.

retain their existing rights after Brexit.

:18:44.:18:45.

Around 3 million EU citizens are waiting to find out

:18:46.:18:47.

if they can remain here, while the Government seeks

:18:48.:18:49.

to guarantee the futures of Britons living overseas.

:18:50.:18:51.

The SNP accused Conservativds of using EU citizens

:18:52.:18:53.

Despite repeated requests, this Government has refused

:18:54.:19:01.

to guarantee in the long term the rights of EU nationals who have

:19:02.:19:05.

made their home in the United Kingdom.

:19:06.:19:06.

In the meantime, in England and Wales hate crime has so`red

:19:07.:19:10.

and xenophobic rhetoric is common in the mainstream media and sadly

:19:11.:19:13.

also sometimes in the mouths of Government ministers.

:19:14.:19:18.

Nobody is suggesting that anybody is going to be ejected

:19:19.:19:21.

from the United Kingdom, and she is simply

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But would she understand and admit that there is a layer of colplexity

:19:24.:19:28.

So, if she is giving rights to people, which I think

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we would all accept, what effective date

:19:34.:19:36.

what then happens when people go outside the UK and seek

:19:37.:19:42.

to return, and all these things are relevant also

:19:43.:19:44.

to British nationals, that the Government has to negotiate

:19:45.:19:46.

Many of the people we're talking about provide vital services

:19:47.:19:52.

For instance, 6% of the doctors working in the Welsh health

:19:53.:19:58.

We are facing a crisis wherdby a third of our doctors may retire

:19:59.:20:03.

We're going to need these pdople, and extra qualified individtals

:20:04.:20:06.

to work in health services, and the rhetoric by the Govdrnment,

:20:07.:20:11.

if enacted in policy, will have a detrimental imp`ct

:20:12.:20:14.

on the delivery of health services in my country.

:20:15.:20:16.

Isn't it time we got our act together as a country, and gave

:20:17.:20:19.

people who given their lives and their taxes to this country

:20:20.:20:21.

the security that they need to know that they can remain?

:20:22.:20:27.

The point is that there are people out there who have been emboldened

:20:28.:20:31.

by the current political clhmate, who want to see EU

:20:32.:20:33.

nationals living here expelled, and worse.

:20:34.:20:35.

And giving the sort of sign`l but she is calling for

:20:36.:20:37.

and which I support today would be a very powerful signal in s`ying

:20:38.:20:42.

that the views of these people are wholeheartedly rejected

:20:43.:20:44.

On this side of the House wd don't believe in cutting off our nose

:20:45.:21:02.

to spite our face, we want to see unilateral and immediate action

:21:03.:21:04.

to guarantee the status of DU national succumbed to be it

:21:05.:21:08.

And we don't believe, to be absolutely clear,

:21:09.:21:11.

that that will undermine the Government's ability to secure

:21:12.:21:13.

the status of UK nationals living in other EU countries,

:21:14.:21:16.

because we believe they also are an asset to the communities

:21:17.:21:18.

The Government has been cle`r that it wants to protect thd status

:21:19.:21:23.

As the Prime Minister's madd clear, the only circumstances in which that

:21:24.:21:33.

would not be possible, are if British citizens' rights

:21:34.:21:39.

in other EU member states wdre not protected in return.

:21:40.:21:42.

The Government has provided repeated assurances on this point,

:21:43.:21:44.

And I'm sorry but the SNP has not included this

:21:45.:21:48.

At the end, the SNP's motion was rejected by 43 votes.

:21:49.:21:55.

Now, plans to allow people to raise money by selling their penshon

:21:56.:21:58.

annuities have been dropped by the Government.

:21:59.:22:00.

Annuities - financial products that provide regular payments to retired

:22:01.:22:02.

people until death - have long been criticised for giving

:22:03.:22:05.

Last year, the then Chancellor George Osborne announced

:22:06.:22:10.

he'd be extending pensions freedoms, allowing people

:22:11.:22:12.

But this week, that option was withdrawn.

:22:13.:22:22.

A Lib Dem said dropping the policy showed the Government didn't

:22:23.:22:25.

trust people to look after their own money.

:22:26.:22:31.

It was specifically included in the manifesto on which this

:22:32.:22:34.

Government was elected, yet yesterday afternoon

:22:35.:22:35.

the Government announced, Mr Speaker, via the press,

:22:36.:22:37.

not via this House, that thdy were scrapping the whole deal.

:22:38.:22:40.

This is a huge U-turn, announced after clear lobbyhng

:22:41.:22:42.

by the industry that never really subscribed to this, and a f`ilure

:22:43.:22:45.

with the Government to work to build a reasonable

:22:46.:22:47.

Of course it's right that protections are put in placd

:22:48.:22:50.

to ensure people are not exploited on the secondary annuities larket,

:22:51.:22:53.

but there are tens of thous`nds of people trapped in poor v`lue

:22:54.:22:56.

annuities who are eager to be able to take advantage

:22:57.:22:58.

Rather than being to the benefit of British pensioners, it

:22:59.:23:02.

And it is for this reason, Mr Speaker, that we are not prepared

:23:03.:23:10.

to allow such a market to ddvelop, and we will not be taking

:23:11.:23:13.

Doesn't this announcement rdpresent two new problems - first of all

:23:14.:23:20.

to those hundreds of thousands of pensioners who have been marched

:23:21.:23:22.

up the hill only to be marched back down again, and left uncert`in

:23:23.:23:33.

about their own financial options, but secondly also to those other

:23:34.:23:36.

generations of potential savers who are baffled by pensions

:23:37.:23:38.

generally, and will find thhs mixed message about chopping and changing

:23:39.:23:44.

on flexibilities even more of a reason to feel sour towards

:23:45.:23:49.

We've got a savings crisis hn this country, and the Government needs

:23:50.:23:52.

far more consistency and a clearer policy here.

:23:53.:23:58.

The minister said no-one wanted to see people being baffled,

:23:59.:24:00.

and all politicians had a dtty to educate and inform peopld

:24:01.:24:03.

about the importance of savings and pensions.

:24:04.:24:06.

A Labour MP is calling for a tightening up of the rules

:24:07.:24:09.

The British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons said

:24:10.:24:13.

there were just over 51,000 surgical procedures in 2015 -

:24:14.:24:15.

Kevin Jones put forward a Bhll calling for a change in the rules,

:24:16.:24:26.

to allow the General Medical Council to strengthen the rules,

:24:27.:24:29.

and recognise specific qualifications and accredit`tions.

:24:30.:24:32.

His Bill also aims to tackld the marketing around

:24:33.:24:35.

The law at present allows any qualified doctor, not even

:24:36.:24:37.

a surgeon, to perform cosmetic surgery without undertaking

:24:38.:24:40.

additional training or qualifications.

:24:41.:24:43.

My Bill aims, Mr Speaker, to close this loophole,

:24:44.:24:45.

and has the support of the Royal College of Surgeons.

:24:46.:24:52.

His Bill also aims to tackld the marketing around

:24:53.:24:54.

Some of the techniques that are used would be more appropriate

:24:55.:24:59.

for selling double glazing than cosmetic surgery

:25:00.:25:00.

These include two for one offers, along with glossy brochures,

:25:01.:25:04.

with no explanation of the potential risks of undergoing surgery.

:25:05.:25:06.

The whole thrust of the advdrtising is to sell procedures withott any

:25:07.:25:09.

counselling or advice on whether or not it is appropriate

:25:10.:25:12.

for an individual to undergo such procedures.

:25:13.:25:19.

Well, Mr Jones won the right to take his Bill forward,

:25:20.:25:22.

but it won't make real progress unless it's backed

:25:23.:25:24.

And that's all from me for now, but do join me again at the same

:25:25.:25:35.

time tomorrow for another round up of the day in Parliament,

:25:36.:25:38.

including a Commons debate on what went wrong at BHS.

:25:39.:25:40.

But for now, from me, Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.

:25:41.:25:46.

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