06/09/2017 Wednesday in Parliament


06/09/2017

Highlights of proceedings in Parliament on Wednesday 6 September presented by Alicia McCarthy.


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Hello there and welcome to Wednesday in Parliament. The first Prime

:00:22.:00:28.

Minister's Questions of the new term sees Theresa May being urged to lift

:00:29.:00:35.

the public sector pay cap. NHS staff of 14% worse off than they were

:00:36.:00:39.

seven years ago. Is she really happy that NHS staff use food banks? As a

:00:40.:00:43.

result of the decisions the Labour Party took in government, we now

:00:44.:00:47.

have to pay more on debt interest than an NHS pay. Peers argue it is

:00:48.:00:54.

time for a new approach to illegal drug-taking. And their support for

:00:55.:01:00.

the Government's plan for letting fees in England. If one letting

:01:01.:01:06.

agent can charge ?6 for a check, how can others charge ?300? We start

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with the first Prime Minister's Questions after the summer recess.

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The Brexit talks have been continuing, in the mornings news

:01:20.:01:24.

have been dominated by leaked report suggesting the UK could take a much

:01:25.:01:27.

tougher approach to immigration once we have left the EU. Jeremy Corbyn

:01:28.:01:31.

didn't raise the potential change for overseas workers, but did raise

:01:32.:01:34.

pay and conditions for workers already here. With nurses protesting

:01:35.:01:40.

outside the Houses of Parliament, Jeremy Corbyn stepped up his calls

:01:41.:01:46.

for an end to the public sector pay cap. Mr Speaker, today, thousands of

:01:47.:01:52.

nursing and other health care staff are outside Parliament. They are

:01:53.:01:57.

demanding that this government scrapped the 1% pay cap. Poor pay

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means experienced staff are leaving and fewer people are training to

:02:02.:02:07.

become nurses. There is already a shortage of 40,000 nurses across the

:02:08.:02:11.

UK. Will the Prime Minister please see sense and end the public sector

:02:12.:02:16.

pay cap and ensure our NHS staff are properly... There are two pay body

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review reports to be published, for police and prison officers, that

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will happen shortly, and then later, as always happens every year, Lady

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in the autumn we will publish the framework for 2018/19, and we will

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continue to balance the need to protect jobs, the need to protect

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public sector workers and the need to ensure that we are also

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protecting and being fair to those who are paying for it, including

:02:43.:02:48.

public sector workers. He asks consistently for more money to be

:02:49.:02:52.

spent. He can do that in opposition because he knows he doesn't have to

:02:53.:02:57.

pay for it. The problem with Labour is they do it in government as well,

:02:58.:03:02.

and as a result of the decisions the Labour Party took in government, as

:03:03.:03:08.

a result of the decisions the Labour Party took in government, we now

:03:09.:03:15.

have to pay more on debt interest than an NHS pay. That's the result

:03:16.:03:21.

of Labour. The Prime Minister had no problems finding ?1 billion to

:03:22.:03:24.

please the DUP, no problems whatsoever. And NHS staff are 14%

:03:25.:03:32.

worse off than they were seven years ago. Is she really happy that NHS

:03:33.:03:40.

staff use food banks? Warm words don't play food bills. Pay rises

:03:41.:03:44.

will help to do that. She must end the public sector pay cap. The

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Westminster leader did turn to Brexit. Does the Prime Minister

:03:52.:03:55.

agree with me that immigration is essential to the strength of the UK

:03:56.:03:58.

economy as well as enhancing our diversity and cultural fabric? As I

:03:59.:04:05.

have said on many occasions before, overall immigration has been good

:04:06.:04:09.

for the UK, but what people want to see is control of that immigration.

:04:10.:04:14.

But I think what people want to see as a result of coming out of the

:04:15.:04:19.

European Union. We are already able to exercise controls in relation to

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those who come to this country from outside the countries within the

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European Union, and we continue to believe as a government that's it

:04:27.:04:31.

important to have net migration and sustainable levels. We believe that

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to be in the tens of thousands because of the impact particularly

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at has on people at the lower end of the income scale in depressing their

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wages. From the backbenches, a Conservative raise the EU withdrawal

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bill which MPs are due to begin debating on Thursday. It transfers

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EU laws into UK legislation, but there will need to be some changes

:04:52.:04:54.

to make those laws work after Brexit. That has caused concern that

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the Government may use potentially sweeping powers to make alterations

:05:00.:05:01.

without Parliamentary scrutiny. Could my right honourable friend

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assure me that she would use those measures to affect the withdrawal

:05:16.:05:18.

bill so that it doesn't become an unprecedented and unnecessary

:05:19.:05:25.

government power grab? I'm very grateful to my right honourable

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friend from raising this issue, and I know that like me she wants to see

:05:29.:05:32.

an orderly exit from the European Union, and will be supporting this

:05:33.:05:36.

bill which enables is not just to leave the EU but to do so in an

:05:37.:05:39.

orderly manner with a functioning statute book. As we do that, we will

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require certain powers to make corrections to the statute book

:05:47.:05:50.

after the Bill becomes law, because the negotiations are ongoing, and we

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will do that via secondary legislation which will receive

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Parliamentary scrutiny, an approach which has been endorsed by the House

:05:58.:06:03.

of Lords Constitution committee. From this month, all three and

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four-year-olds in England are entitled to 30 hours of free

:06:08.:06:11.

childcare week, up from 15 hours. But Labour says parents are in limbo

:06:12.:06:15.

because of failings in the Government's scheme. The shadow

:06:16.:06:18.

Education Minister attacked the Tory policy for being shrouded in

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secrecy, misinformation and mayhem. From the beginning, the application

:06:24.:06:26.

process was not fit for purpose. Settings were run ragged trying to

:06:27.:06:33.

help parents, and this afternoon, there are parents who have been

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waiting weeks and are still in limbo. This childcare has been

:06:38.:06:40.

advertised as free, but it is clear it will be subsidised by parents or

:06:41.:06:46.

providers. This risks pricing out the poorest, and top providers

:06:47.:06:50.

leaving the sector. Will he now listen and commit to reevaluating

:06:51.:06:57.

the policies funding? Thank you, Mr Speaker. I'm afraid the honourable

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lady's rhetoric doesn't accurately reflect the experience on the

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ground. I can update her in terms of we predicted that around 75% of

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eligible parents would apply and the scheme. There are some parents who

:07:13.:07:15.

have a very good reasons in terms of family childcare would not apply,

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that figure would have been 200,000, so we have exceeded that prediction,

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and I can confirm that as we are only six days into September,

:07:26.:07:31.

152,829 parents have secured a place, that is 71% of those parents

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have now found a place six days in. That is a great success story. But

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MPs continue to raise questions, some hostile and some not. He knows

:07:42.:07:46.

that I wrote as the incoming chairman of the Treasury select

:07:47.:07:51.

committee to the head HMRC over the summer, he replied the the 17th of

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August saying that a total of ?45,000 or thereabouts had so far

:07:55.:07:58.

been paid in compensation. Is that the list are able to update the

:07:59.:08:01.

House, and Kenny confirm what he said about those parents who had

:08:02.:08:04.

codes by the 31st of August that they will be able to access

:08:05.:08:11.

childcare this autumn? I thank my right honourable friend for the

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question. It is indeed a pledge that is being delivered. It is no secret

:08:16.:08:19.

that there were technical problems with the IT system, and indeed my

:08:20.:08:23.

honourable friend from the Treasury is here, listening to what we say.

:08:24.:08:29.

Round about 1% of cases who applied online were stuck, that is a

:08:30.:08:32.

technical reason those cases were not processed. There were another

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group of cases that could not have been processed online, for example

:08:37.:08:45.

person who applies for child care on the basis of a job offer rather than

:08:46.:08:49.

on the basis of the job, that would give us a Catch-22 situation that a

:08:50.:08:52.

person could deprive childcare Fichardt Kevin Olimpa a job and

:08:53.:08:55.

didn't get the job because they didn't have childcare, so in

:08:56.:08:58.

situations like that there is a manual system. There were 2200 stuck

:08:59.:09:09.

cases, there are now 1500, but there are many new cases summer which have

:09:10.:09:13.

only been on the system for a week, and certainly my honourable friend

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will write to her with regards to compensation, but we have a small

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number of people affected by this. The situation was operational 93% of

:09:22.:09:25.

the time during which people could apply. I wonder if the Minister has

:09:26.:09:32.

read the report published last week with the social market foundation

:09:33.:09:35.

that showed that of the extra money the Government is pumping into the

:09:36.:09:39.

early years over the course of this Parliament, 75% of that expenditure

:09:40.:09:45.

is going on the top earners, the top 50% of earners, lesson 3% is going

:09:46.:09:50.

on the most disadvantaged. This comes at a time when the

:09:51.:09:54.

Government's own evaluation of the two-year-old office showing a good

:09:55.:09:57.

quality early education is life changing for those families that

:09:58.:10:02.

receive it. Is he happy with this distribution of expenditure, and

:10:03.:10:05.

what more is he doing to ensure that low-income and disadvantaged

:10:06.:10:09.

families are accessing this high-quality education? The SNP

:10:10.:10:14.

Scottish Government confirmed that childcare entitlement will double

:10:15.:10:20.

from August 20 20. The Tories have decided to cherry pick who receives

:10:21.:10:25.

the childcare. The Minister told the SNP that he wouldn't take any

:10:26.:10:28.

lessons from the Scottish Government. The Conservatives were

:10:29.:10:33.

committed to spending billions of pounds and to transforming the lives

:10:34.:10:39.

of working parents. You are watching Wednesday in Parliament with me,

:10:40.:10:42.

Alysia McCarthy. Don't forget was much more from this programme on our

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website. In Westminster Hall, there was broad

:10:45.:10:58.

support for a Government plan to ban fees paid to letting agents in

:10:59.:11:05.

England. A new tenants fees bill was announced in the Queen's Speech

:11:06.:11:07.

which. Tenants having to pay. The money is used to taking references,

:11:08.:11:12.

getting credit checks or investigating immigration status,

:11:13.:11:15.

but MPs argued the amounts charged could be excessive.

:11:16.:11:18.

A leading figure in the estate agency history was talking to

:11:19.:11:21.

me about his daughter who went to college

:11:22.:11:22.

student house with four fellow students and were charged ?500 as a

:11:23.:11:26.

They use it to lower their charges to

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landlords, to attract more landlords, and then

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transfer that cost on

:11:40.:11:40.

Others use it simply to maximise profits.

:11:41.:11:48.

Take my constituent, David, for example.

:11:49.:11:49.

He rents a small room in what was originally a three-bedroom

:11:50.:11:52.

There are now two further bedrooms in the loft and two

:11:53.:11:56.

reception rooms on the ground floor used as bedrooms.

:11:57.:11:59.

There are currently ten households in that house.

:12:00.:12:01.

And he is charged ?550 a month for his

:12:02.:12:03.

Not the highest in the constituency, but still high enough.

:12:04.:12:11.

And he was charged an astounding ?1250 in letting fees and a further

:12:12.:12:14.

?50 to simply get the letter that explained how much his deposit was

:12:15.:12:17.

On average, I'm told that it's up to five

:12:18.:12:31.

hours repair for a tenancy, looking at all the different documentation,

:12:32.:12:35.

going through the reference request, checking on the credit

:12:36.:12:37.

history, liaising with external referencing companies.

:12:38.:12:41.

I had a session with a couple of agents and

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they explained to me all the work that has to be done.

:12:45.:12:49.

And what they pointed out was that this is, in

:12:50.:12:51.

And that is why it I was saying to the Minister that are there no other

:12:52.:12:56.

possible ways forward that could be looked at?

:12:57.:12:59.

For example, what about a cap on fees, would that not solve this?

:13:00.:13:02.

What about taking referencing fees at the scope of the action

:13:03.:13:05.

And further to the point the honourable member

:13:06.:13:14.

made, he was saying that the landlord should pay

:13:15.:13:16.

for those, to be fair, the potential

:13:17.:13:18.

tenant would go to the agent and the tenant farms that

:13:19.:13:21.

The agent carries out the referencing work on that

:13:22.:13:25.

particular tenant and then the tenant has the

:13:26.:13:27.

opportunity through the agent of bidding for those properties.

:13:28.:13:30.

So what I would suggest is that, if the

:13:31.:13:32.

onus is put on the landlord, that rents will go up.

:13:33.:13:44.

The shadow Housing Minister pointed this out:

:13:45.:13:50.

If the tenant wishes to stay in the property

:13:51.:13:53.

beyond the length of the initial contract, they can be charged a fee

:13:54.:13:56.

for renewing their tenancy, which well

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in practice is as simple as

:13:58.:13:58.

changing the dates on the contract, can set

:13:59.:14:00.

tenants back by as much as

:14:01.:14:02.

For an average of ?400 per household, private renters

:14:03.:14:05.

received the servers that the landlord has already paid

:14:06.:14:07.

The fees charged by different letting agents

:14:08.:14:10.

Which shows that they bear little or no relation to the

:14:11.:14:14.

One letting agent contract just ?6 for a

:14:15.:14:17.

reference check, how can other agents justify charging the hundred

:14:18.:14:19.

We hope that a ban will help to deliver

:14:20.:14:23.

a more competitive and more affordable and transparent lettings

:14:24.:14:25.

And I think we have heard from Scotland, it hasn't had a

:14:26.:14:30.

negative consequences that some suggested that it might do.

:14:31.:14:39.

Good letting agents provide a valuable service. The problem is

:14:40.:14:48.

that the letting agent is chosen by the landlord, so tenants can be

:14:49.:14:52.

charged on fair or excessive fees, with a limited ability to negotiate

:14:53.:14:57.

or opt out. Evidence shows that this is a problem right across England,

:14:58.:15:00.

and colleagues have referred to this. By banning tenant fees we will

:15:01.:15:04.

enable tenants to see what a given property will cost them and the

:15:05.:15:07.

advertised rent levels without any hidden costs. We believe this will

:15:08.:15:11.

reduce the upfront costs that tenants face when moving home and

:15:12.:15:15.

ensure that they are only committed to a property that they know that

:15:16.:15:17.

they can afford. A new fleet of warships will be

:15:18.:15:30.

built over the next six years. The Defence Secretary told the Commons

:15:31.:15:34.

that they will be constructive at a cost of no more than ?250 million

:15:35.:15:39.

each. So Michael Fallon acknowledged that previous warships have been

:15:40.:15:42.

over budget and delivered late, but this time, the prize will be fixed

:15:43.:15:45.

in advance. The first chips are said to be in service by 2023.

:15:46.:15:49.

So, this will be the first demonstration of our

:15:50.:15:51.

The new frigate will be procured competitively,

:15:52.:15:55.

providing an opportunity for any shipyard across the United Kingdom

:15:56.:15:57.

The strategy confirms in the clearest statement of this

:15:58.:16:07.

policy for a decade that all warships will have a UK owned,

:16:08.:16:13.

designed, and will be built and integrated

:16:14.:16:15.

Warship build will be by competition between United Kingdom shipyards.

:16:16.:16:26.

The Government's commitment to a ship building strategy

:16:27.:16:33.

must be complemented by a comprehensive

:16:34.:16:35.

So can I ask the Secretary of State, how he intends

:16:36.:16:40.

to maximise opportunities for the UK supply chain?

:16:41.:16:43.

And when determining best value, will he commit to giving weight

:16:44.:16:47.

to the positive impact on local economies and employment

:16:48.:16:50.

opportunities when awarding contracts?

:16:51.:16:55.

The news that only 50% of the steel in the type 26 is UK sourced

:16:56.:16:59.

So how does the Government intend to improve on this

:17:00.:17:04.

Can you confirm that the type 31 frigate is a complex naval warship

:17:05.:17:12.

and therefore should be built at the centre of excellence

:17:13.:17:15.

which is on the Clyde which he entered them Prime Minister

:17:16.:17:18.

promised in November 2015, and finally, in respect

:17:19.:17:22.

of fleet and support ships, why are these being procured

:17:23.:17:25.

internationally when surely the UK shipyards could be

:17:26.:17:27.

Well, the honourable gentleman is doing his

:17:28.:17:36.

best to turn sunshine into a grievance, and...

:17:37.:17:37.

It is, you know, it is extraordinary,

:17:38.:17:42.

just to be clear about Govan, Govan is going to build for 20

:17:43.:17:45.

That is a frigate factory by any definition.

:17:46.:17:51.

Will he give an undertaking today that wherever possible,

:17:52.:17:54.

we will use British steel in the building of these ships?

:17:55.:17:58.

Well, we are going, as I said, to take a very, very close interest

:17:59.:18:02.

in the percentage of steel that will be used in each of the bids

:18:03.:18:05.

We'll be watching that extremely closely.

:18:06.:18:12.

I do remind the House, there are some specialist steels

:18:13.:18:15.

that are not produced in this country that are needed

:18:16.:18:17.

But we will be looking to those who submit their bids to demonstrate

:18:18.:18:25.

just how much British steel they are using and also show how

:18:26.:18:30.

they are going to fully engage their local supply chains

:18:31.:18:36.

and indeed take the opportunity to refresh local skills in their area.

:18:37.:18:46.

I recently wrote to the Secretary of State asking if he would consider

:18:47.:18:49.

naming one of the type 26 frigates HMS Colchester and I got a very

:18:50.:18:53.

pleasant and polite response from the Undersecretary of State

:18:54.:18:55.

saying no, but I'm nothing but persistent and I would ask,

:18:56.:18:59.

we waited patiently since 1746 for another HMS Colchester

:19:00.:19:03.

and I would ask the Secretary of State to please consider one

:19:04.:19:06.

of the new type 31 E class as HMS Colchester.

:19:07.:19:14.

If my honourable friend has waited since 1746,

:19:15.:19:18.

perhaps he can wait a little longer.

:19:19.:19:19.

The Government says it has no plans to review a new law banning

:19:20.:19:35.

psychoactive substances, formerly known as legal highs, following a

:19:36.:19:41.

prosecution last month. The propagation service is reviewing two

:19:42.:19:44.

cases after a judge said that nitrous oxide, no one is exempt from

:19:45.:19:51.

the ban. The gas gas can be held as a recreational drug but the court

:19:52.:19:54.

ruled it wasn't covered by the law as it is also used by doctors for

:19:55.:20:02.

painterly. -- pain relief. It is believed that highlighted a flaw in

:20:03.:20:03.

the legislation. It hasn't taken long for the courts

:20:04.:20:06.

to expose the on work ability Faced with a very serious

:20:07.:20:09.

and pressing problem of new psychoactive substances,

:20:10.:20:12.

will the Government now see reason and accept that prohibition,

:20:13.:20:14.

the orthodoxy of the last half-century, and reiterated

:20:15.:20:17.

on a peculiarly crude model in the 2016 Act,

:20:18.:20:18.

has failed with disastrous consequences in terms

:20:19.:20:21.

of the growth of crime, the blighting of innumerable

:20:22.:20:26.

lives, not to mention Will the Government now

:20:27.:20:29.

both its policy not on the wishful thinking and populism,

:20:30.:20:35.

but on the evidence of science, the analysis of specific harms

:20:36.:20:42.

and the experience here and in other countries of what does work

:20:43.:20:45.

and what does not work? My lords, I disagree with the noble

:20:46.:20:49.

lord about the psychoactive substances act not working,

:20:50.:20:51.

because we have managed to close down over 300 retailers

:20:52.:20:57.

across the UK who sell psychoactive substances, and in 2016

:20:58.:21:03.

there were 28 convictions in England and Wales and seven people jailed

:21:04.:21:12.

under the new powers. Additionally coming from Manchester,

:21:13.:21:16.

I would have to disagree with the noble lord if he saw some

:21:17.:21:18.

of the sites that I have seen on the streets

:21:19.:21:21.

of Manchester recently. The UN changed the basis of global

:21:22.:21:24.

drug policy in April last year We now know that banning drugs

:21:25.:21:27.

will never create a drug-free world. The UN therefore wants nations

:21:28.:21:37.

to pursue evidence -based policies as the noble lord has mentioned,

:21:38.:21:41.

public health policies to reduce addiction and reduce

:21:42.:21:44.

the harm star young people. My lords, the Psychoactive

:21:45.:21:54.

Substances Bill runs It increases the risks

:21:55.:21:56.

to young people. They were the last vestige of any

:21:57.:22:01.

kind of protection for young people, So I will therefore reiterate

:22:02.:22:06.

the point already made, really. Will the Minister give an assurance

:22:07.:22:12.

to this House that she will give the most serious consideration

:22:13.:22:15.

to instigating an independent review We are simply making matters worse,

:22:16.:22:19.

and to come forward I must say to the noble lady

:22:20.:22:29.

that I don't disagree. In fact, on previous occasions

:22:30.:22:42.

I haven't disagreed that evidence -based policies are absolutely

:22:43.:22:44.

the right way forward, in fact the WHO is currently

:22:45.:22:46.

undertaking some work of its own and will report next year

:22:47.:22:49.

on the various elements of cannabis, and we wait with interest

:22:50.:22:56.

on the results of that work. Finally, back to the Commons, where

:22:57.:23:16.

MPs were debating finance. Nothing unusual about that, but this is

:23:17.:23:21.

what's known as a ways and means debate, about the Budget. The Khan

:23:22.:23:28.

budget was back in the spring but ways to enact it were delayed and

:23:29.:23:33.

MPs are only just getting round to it now.

:23:34.:23:36.

I appreciate having a chance to take part in this ways and means debate,

:23:37.:23:40.

which I understand is one of very few that doesn't follow a Budget,

:23:41.:23:43.

somebody told me that this is the first one since 1987 that

:23:44.:23:46.

A Treasury minister argued it was much needed.

:23:47.:23:57.

It changes this bill will make are important,

:23:58.:23:59.

making a major contribution to the public finances,

:24:00.:24:01.

tackling tax avoidance and evasion and addressing areas of unfairness

:24:02.:24:04.

But the Labour front bench thought it was in a muddle.

:24:05.:24:10.

A chaotic Government chaotically stumbling from crisis to crisis,

:24:11.:24:12.

not knowing one part of its anatomy from another.

:24:13.:24:14.

And after the election, we return to a zombie Parliament

:24:15.:24:16.

where little in the way of business was put forward to be debated

:24:17.:24:21.

in this House and I think the Speaker referred to this whole

:24:22.:24:23.

question today about scrutiny, which we are supposed to be doing

:24:24.:24:26.

and the Government is not putting anything forward

:24:27.:24:28.

So not only is the Prime Minister one of the walking dead,

:24:29.:24:32.

but she wants Parliament to be, to join her.

:24:33.:24:39.

But the minister argued the alternative plan brought by Labour

:24:40.:24:43.

at the election would not be good for the country.

:24:44.:24:47.

To be going out there with a plan which will basically see corporation

:24:48.:24:51.

tax rising up to 26%, for small companies as well,

:24:52.:24:53.

and changing the higher rate tax threshold to bring many,

:24:54.:24:55.

many more people into the higher rate of tax is not a way

:24:56.:24:59.

of incentivising jobs, wealth and economic growth.

:25:00.:25:11.

The SNP had reservations about the proposal in the bill but did well,

:25:12.:25:14.

one item. -- welcome one item. The fact that the Government

:25:15.:25:19.

is going to be taking action on those people that have been

:25:20.:25:22.

enabling tax avoidance schemes and not just those people have been

:25:23.:25:24.

participating in tax avoidance schemes, I think that is a really

:25:25.:25:27.

positive move and I hope it will do what the Government is intending

:25:28.:25:30.

in that it will discourage people from being clever and covering up

:25:31.:25:33.

tax avoidance schemes. So my fingers are crossed

:25:34.:25:35.

on that, we will wait That's it from me for now but to

:25:36.:25:46.

join me at the same time tomorrow as MPs hold their first big debate on

:25:47.:25:49.

the EU withdrawal bill. But now, from the, goodbye.

:25:50.:25:58.