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Hello, and welcome to Witness, with me, Tanya Beckett, | :00:00. | :00:28. | |
back here at the British Library in London. | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
We have got another five witnesses who have shared their personal | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
This month on the programme, we'll meet the Israeli lawyer | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
who prosecuted the architect of the Holocaust. | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
We'll meet a Chinese archaeologist who worked on the statues | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
And the son of Charlie Chaplin invites us into his home. | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
But first, we're going back to the 1980s and the beginning | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
At that time, stigma about the condition was rife. | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
But, in 1987, Princess Diana agreed to make a highly symbolic visit | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
to the first HIV/Aids unit in Britain. | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
Our first witness, John O'Reilly, was a nurse at the unit who welcomed | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
one of the most famous women in the world. | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
For everybody affected by HIV/Aids around the world, | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
Officially, the Princess was simply opening the first purpose-billed | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
But more significantly, she demonstrated her confidence | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
to staff and the public that AIDS cannot be taken | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
People were frightened, really frightened, because we didn't | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
The media were unkind, particularly the tabloid press. | :01:44. | :01:56. | |
I hated all of that kind of misinformation and hysteria. | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
The headlines were scaremongering, ignorant, misleading | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
As far as I'm concerned, the gay plague was the homophobia, | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
I didn't even tell fellow nurses or doctors what I did. | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
I just said I was a nurse at the Middlesex Hospital. | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
We didn't have medical or nursing staff. | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
We couldn't attract staff because people were frightened. | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
The unit had created other pressures in the hospital. | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
Staff treating people with AIDS are subject to extra strain. | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
We have to be careful with blood and body fluids, | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
obviously, because that is the way it is transmitted. | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Obviously if we are dealing with those things, we will use | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
But we're not going out of our way use spacesuits and the rest | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
My first impressions of Princess Diana was she was warm, | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
She took our consultant down a peg or two, who'd really kind | :03:07. | :03:15. | |
of condescendingly said, "do you know what this is?" | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
He was holding up an x-ray of a chest. | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
She just very politely said, I am patron of the British Heart | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
and Lung Foundation, of course I know what an x-ray is. | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
I thought "Good on her, I like that." | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Anticipation always surrounds what the Princess of Wales wears | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
for an engagement, but the obersveration has rarely | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
Just one question dominated the whole day. | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Would she or wouldn't she wear gloves? | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
Princess Diana demonstrated that she cared because she took | :03:48. | :03:49. | |
This was Diana, the Princess of Wales, coming in without gloves | :03:50. | :03:57. | |
and shaking our patients' hands, as well as ours. | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
They were hiding from the media, unhappy with how the epidemic | :04:02. | :04:13. | |
Finally, one agreed to a picture of the Princess shaking his hand | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
to prove you cannot catch AIDS through casual contact. | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
It did not take much convincing for him. | :04:24. | :04:25. | |
And the night it aired, I got lots of notes pushed | :04:26. | :04:35. | |
And I never got any negative reaction from the public at all. | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
For a royal to shake a patient's hands, somebody at the bus stop | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
or the supermarket could do the same. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
I think Princess Diana's departure has done the world a lot of harm, | :04:51. | :05:01. | |
John now works as a psychotherapist in London. | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
But this is not about battles, it is about the many women who met | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
and married foreign servicemen when they were serving in Europe. | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
In 1946, thousands of war brides sailed from Britain to Canada to be | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
reunited with their husbands and begin their new lives. | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
NEWSREEL: Since 1939, some 24,000 British girls | :05:30. | :05:39. | |
3,000 of them have already been sent to Canada | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
We left our families and our relatives, our friends, | :05:45. | :05:57. | |
for this one man that we were in love with. | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
It was a marvellous thing that the Canadian government did. | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
And, I mean, they moved 47,000 women and over 22,000 children. | :06:08. | :06:16. | |
When the war started, we thought London was going to be blitzkrieged. | :06:17. | :06:24. | |
If you don't know what blitzkrieging is, it is having hundreds of bombers | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
B1 bombs were terrifying because you could hear them coming. | :06:30. | :06:42. | |
And this one came down with the engines just roaring. | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
And it hit the houses at the back of us. | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
The Canadians, of course, are part of the Commonwealth. | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Another big ship tying itself up at the British port. | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
So the Canadian troops started coming over. | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
This Canadian soldier that became my husband was a very | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
I was 18 or 19 years old when I met him. | :07:18. | :07:27. | |
It was a case of being young, being in love. | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
She seemed to think it was a good idea. | :07:30. | :07:44. | |
More wives and kiddies are off to their land of opportunity | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
We didn't know these men very well when we agreed to marry them. | :07:48. | :08:01. | |
On arrival at the port, everyone is safely stored aboard | :08:02. | :08:03. | |
the ship which will take them on their journey. | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
We wondered what it was going to be like, of course. | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
18,000 adopted daughters willing to learn about Canadian | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
We did not know thing except that Canada was vast. | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
When I first came to this house, there was no running water, | :08:26. | :08:34. | |
there was no electricity, there was no bathroom. | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
I think that, I'll admit, that is probably why | :08:41. | :08:49. | |
When husbands work away, you're glad to see them | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
There was a lot of us who were very brave, | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
It was, well, I would say an adventure. | :09:03. | :09:12. | |
Betty Hawkins talking to Witness from her home in Canada. | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
Now to one of the greatest archaeological finds | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
In the spring of 1974, a group of people in China | :09:19. | :09:26. | |
accidentally uncovered the site of the vast Terracotta Army. | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
Our next witness is an archaeologist, Li Xiuzhen, | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
who has devoted her career to these life-size warriors. | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
NEWSREEL: It's a vast terracotta army being unearthed from the tomb | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
it has laid in for more than 2000 years. | :09:47. | :10:16. | |
I work on the site of the terracotta army in China. | :10:17. | :10:32. | |
And Li Xiuzhen still works on the site of the terracotta | :10:33. | :13:27. | |
Remember, you can watch Witness every month on the BBC News channel | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
and you can catch up on all of the films along with more | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
than 1,000 radio programmes in our on line archive. | :13:38. | :13:39. | |
The Nazi who planned the Holocaust in 1951 was put | :13:40. | :13:53. | |
Gabriel Bach was a young Israeli lawyer at the time and was chosen | :13:54. | :14:02. | |
as one of the prosecutors in a trial attracting worldwide attention. | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
In a ninth week of this Jerusalem trial for the murder of 6 million | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
Jews, Albert Eichmann takes the stand in the bullet-proof dock. | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
Eichmann was the head of what is called the Jewish Department | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
In many German documents, it was called Operation Eichmann, | :14:21. | :14:28. | |
Hitler and Himmler and these people who made the order to kill | :14:29. | :14:37. | |
all the Jews in 1941, they, of course, were more guilty. | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
But Eichmann was in charge of the whole of the carrying out | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
Eichmann, in 1960, was caught by Israeli agents in the Argentine. | :14:47. | :14:55. | |
Two days after he arrived in Israel, the Minister of Justice called me, | :14:56. | :15:04. | |
and he said "Mr Bach, I imagine you will be one | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
"But would you be prepared to be in charge of the investigation?" | :15:08. | :15:17. | |
The whole world spoke about it, in all the newspapers. | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
You could see that Eichmann was proud about anything he did | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
in order to prevent the saving of a single Jew. | :15:24. | :15:31. | |
TRANSLATION: And then they took my mother, | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
They called mother and shot her, too. | :15:36. | :15:46. | |
I put him on the stage as a witness, and then I asked "What happened | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
He said he had no idea what Auschwitz meant. | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
And he said "My wife, when we came there, was sent | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
"Which we were told afterwards was the gas chambers." | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
"And I had a little daughter, two-and-a-half years old, | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
and of course, they also said to the left." | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
"Then they asked 'What was your profession?' and I said | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
"So sent to the right, they wanted me to do some work." | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
"So the SS commander said he had to speak to the commander-in-chief." | :16:22. | :16:31. | |
"So it took a few minutes, and then said the boy, | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
And I saw the witness, he was back there, with with tears | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
And he said "I couldn't see my wife any more, | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
"I couldn't see my son anymore, he was swallowed in the crowd." | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
"But my little daughter, she had a red coat, and that little | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
red dot, getting smaller and smaller - this is how my family disappeared | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
At that time, my little daughter was exactly 2-and-a-half-years old, | :16:56. | :17:04. | |
and I had bought her a red coat, two weeks before that. | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
And so when the witness said that about the red coat, | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
it suddenly cut off my voice completely. | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
Until this very day, I can be in a restaurant, | :17:18. | :17:27. | |
I can be in the street, and suddenly feel my heart beating, | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
and I turn around and I see a little boy or a little girl in red coat. | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
The former Isreali prosecutor, Gabriel Bach, speaking | :17:36. | :17:36. | |
The former Isreali prosecutor, Gabriel Bach, speaking | :17:37. | :17:45. | |
In April 1872, the silent movie star, Charlie Chaplin, | :17:46. | :17:54. | |
returned to America after two decades in exile in Switzerland. | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
For our final film this month, Witness has been to the comedian's | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
former home on Lake Geneva, to meet his son, Eugene. | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
Charlie Chaplin, my father, he was a pioneer in silent movies. | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
He understood, he saw the potential of filmmaking. | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
He made about 80 films while he was in America. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
By the age of 23, he was world famous. | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
This is the house where I grew up - but it's a museum now. | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
I'm the number five of the eight kids my father had with Oona. | :18:31. | :18:42. | |
In the 1950s, there was a witch-hunt against the liberals in America, | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
and my father, he was accused of being a sympathiser to communists. | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
Plus had problems with his private life. | :18:54. | :19:02. | |
So when he went to Europe, he received a telegram, | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
saying that they revoked his visa, and that he had to go in front | :19:06. | :19:13. | |
If you wanted to re-enter America. He was very hurt by that. He said, | :19:14. | :19:30. | |
if they are going to treat me like that, I'm not going back. | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
Switzerland is the last part of his life, where he didn't do as many | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
films, but Mackie really had the normal life he always wanted. -- but | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
he really had. We lived in a bubble. My parents were really in love with | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
each other. He was funny at home. But he was very strict on education. | :19:52. | :19:59. | |
He wanted us to do well at school, and he wanted us to be well-behaved. | :20:00. | :20:08. | |
At home. We would have dinner every night. If you wanted to get up to go | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
to the toilet you would have to ask permission. We all had our turns to | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
be able to speak. With me, he always said, you know, you can do whatever | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
you want. But whatever you are going to do, do it well. In the 1970s he | :20:26. | :20:34. | |
was invited to go to America to receive an Oscar. He was surprised | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
and bothered about it. I think he had very mixed feelings. Because of | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
all the bad memories he had there. My mother's view, she thought it | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
would be a great virginity for my father and America to kind of full | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
give each other, and she was right. -- great opportunity. The reception | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
in the United States was great. Obviously it was much rather than he | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
expected. He was very touched by that. Especially at the Oscars. A | :21:12. | :21:23. | |
standing ovation. 20 minutes. All his friends were there. Afterwards, | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
he was in a better mood. I could feel that the pressure of having to | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
go over there was over. I've learned one thing, he is mine emotionally, | :21:36. | :21:44. | |
but he is not mine any more. Because he is such a public figure. He is | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
everyone's, and everyone has their theories about him. Before, I got a | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
very mad about that. But now I accepted. -- except it. | :21:55. | :22:02. | |
Five years after his return to the US Charlie Chaplin died on Christmas | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
Day, 1977. His son Eugene still lives near the family mansion. That | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
is all from Miss this month. From me, Tanya Beckett, and the rest of | :22:12. | :22:20. | |
the Esteem, goodbye. -- Witness team. | :22:21. | :22:38. | |
This sunshine makes all the difference at this time of year. | :22:39. | :22:41. |