21/05/2013 World Business Report

choice, it is an obligation. What happens when a soldier says, no? My

guest today Joe Glenton was that a soldier. In order to rejoin the

army, he fled to Asia and then Australia. He eventually returned

but spent time in a military prison. He emerged a convinced anti-war

campaigner. So is he is a story of courage, cowardice or something

much more complicated? Joe Glenton, welcome to the

programme. Thank you.I will begin by taking you back a decade. Why

did you want to be a soldier? I think, for most guys joining the

Army, it is a combination of things. For a long time, I convinced myself

it was just purely economic. As I started to write the book, I

started to analyse it. The underlying reasons what economic

most of the time. I needed the money. There is a germ of truth

about the poverty of a recruiting sergeant. There was a set of poll

for ideological factors. -- poll for. It has something to do with

social approval, masculinity, heroism. British identity is

founded quite firmly on a historical narrative, and Gabriel

identity. I will stop you for a minute. Then you were 22 years old,

thinking about it, I bet you're not using that language. At the time,

it was a simple question of whether you're attracted by the notion of

putting on the uniform and serving Queen and country. There's at the

time must have been yes. retrospect, obviously. But at the

time, I didn't understand those ideas. I can look at it now and say

it is a mix of those two things. A mix of the economic things and

about wearing the uniform and serving your country. You were a

patriot? I was not a conscious of patriot but those ideas are

ingrained in us. Yes, you may have not been as a thought for as you

are now and they're not have gone as much analysis as now. But you

must have asked yourself, could a cure for my country? Would I

sacrifice my life and my mate' on the frontline? You must have

thought those things. You don't know if that will happen to you.

You think about it in the abstract. Anyone joining up, you talk about

it with the guys and considerate. At the time, I was willing to do

that. I had practical ideas of what the military dollars and its role

in society. It is very well marketed. When you go to a

lucrative offers, they know what they are talking about. There have

polished language and glossy brochures. You enjoyed it.Yes.

read about it. He felt it made use a stronger person. A lot of

positives. Yes.Then you go to Afghanistan. It is your first peek

overseas deployment. You add up spending seven months there. You

are based in Kandahar. Not be the frontline but doing important work,

mostly logistics, helping the military machine. He seemed to have

thrived and done very well. Yes. During my time, the does emerge.

But you are able to put them aside. -- doubts. The aim is, you crack on.

That is the phrase. You get on with it. I don't miss the institution of

the military. Understand it better. But I miss the sense of identity.

people from varied backgrounds but portly similarly, from similar

economic backgrounds. Very compelling things. You could have

sat and build the sense of community without the military. But

they did very well themselves. They are experts at it. I suppose what I

am getting too, and this is for your case is fascinating, you

became Filey unusual. A complete rarity in the military. You served

in Afghanistan and won and promotion because you're commanding

officers were so pleased with your performance. You were the soldier

who said no, when it came to the proposition that he would go back

after my months and go back to Afghanistan. You said no. Why?

first thing is, I'm not the first. There are others. The military is a

closed world. You do not hear about it. I'll tell you why. Most of them

did not won away like you did. lot of guys refused at have

conscientious objections. You could out of dead boy day and do not

fancy it, it is something it develops with no control over it. -

- get out of bed. It goes against the grain of you been to go back

and serve. But you do not actually say, I have a conscientious

objection. A idea. In the military, there is a sacrosanct hierarchical

the chain of command. When I was told I was going back, I went to

the chain of command. The corporate talks to a sergeant he talks to a

captain. I said, I'm not going back. This is why. At that point, but was

a British ring the concierges objection. You are not told how to

do it. I was familiar with the concept of conscientious objection.

The onus is on them to take me through the process. The concierges

abjection, remember, it is thought about it a specific way. When

people think about it, they think about what will one. It misses

about 99 years of resistance by soldiers. The process is there. It

is a riot. You are allowed to do it. You can get to the board and they

rejected. They were half a dozen at the MoD that acknowledged that

freeze Afghan campaign had consciously -- a seat their

objections and been granted it. The failed to go through the process.

In the military, you don't go round the chain of command. As a soldier,

I went to Mike came up command. I If I had gone back, how could I

have done my job? The man next to it is not in the game. What I am

struggling with his, you said you formally started a process. It had

not finished. There was no per appeals procedure. It could be the

case. On the eve of deployment, as you're about to go to Afghanistan,

rather than discuss it with your chain of command or go through

formal procedures, he bought a plane to go to Bangkok and let out

of the country. This is where the post-traumatic stress came in. If I

was in a better state of mind, I tried to use the procedure to go to

He was a lot number a lot of people in the army. -- the rules are not

known by a lot of people in the army. When you are under pressure,

you do the best you can. But I went to my chain of command. I try to

pursue it. I am a little bit confused. Are you saying that you

should not have gone back to Afghanistan? You were in a mental

distressed state? You were suffering from post-traumatic

stress disorder? Or that you have some fundamental moral and ethical

objection to being involved in that particular conflict? It is not that

confusing. I tried to peace to this. Had I not been ill at the time, I

might have done it better. The background it is of post-traumatic

stress. The onus is on them. It is on the chain of command. I could

have done it. The fact is, whatever the background, he ended up