Episode 2 Late Kick Off North East and Cumbria

Tonight: The businessman, Hartlepool's chief gives a rare

interview. We try and run this club like we do the oil companies.

The oldest scout in the business, we need 19-year-old talent-spotter.

Still in business, this man is back from the dead, for now at least.

Hello. Welcome to Late Kick Off. Joining Danny Mills and myself, the

walking wounded, for much Boro Hartlepool * Craig Hignett. You

have got some explaining to do. haven't, I had just heard myself

badly and had an operation. What did you do? I had 8 hip operation.

I fractured my hip. But it is getting better. I need to send for

a health correspondent. Was it an accident, or residue from playing

time? It has come On Over two years, but in the end I could not bend

down so something had to be done. I did it five weeks ago. You have not

stopped when hit -- a whingeing that he paid �35 for those crutches.

And devastated! Tonight, as a successful

businessman, Ken Hodcroft knows the importance of profit, so why does

his company want to own a loss- making football club. He doesn't do

many interviews, but gave Katie Gornall a rare glimpse into his

I enjoy what I'd do it and like to think that I can get on with most

or all of the staff. We have a joke and a laugh. The worst invention

It is open. Hands-on with regard to what the club is doing. We have to

spend a lot of time, mainly because it is the only company in our group

that loses money. Why did you want to get into football? In 1997, Sky

was getting underway and been involved in the football side was

becoming a very interesting business opportunity. It was mainly

for the exposure corporate wives. We decided that Hartlepool would be

a good thing to be involved in. -- in terms of corporation.

average fan it was either against you're subsidising the club. If it

was a normal business, you would cut your losses, but why is full

board different? In the whole scheme of things, the million

pounds is what Major companies would spend on advertising. What

are the challenges of running a football club in League One in a

recession? It is a big challenge, especially with a club like

Hartlepool and other clubs in our division that have a low fan-base.

We do not get the amount of people through the gates who we would like

to. 7,000 would be good to again. Painful price, that is what the

break-even is of a club like ours. It is difficult, there is not much

money around, we have to do incentives for fans. It is

difficult for businesses. It is made more difficult that the money

that comes in from Sky and the Premiership, the money the Football

League give us, is not enough. They could help if they wanted to.

the moment, football finances have come into sharp focus with the

situation at Darlington. Do you have sympathy for what they are

going through? Idea, but again, I am back to the Football League. It

is time we made a stand. If the club is going to go out of business,

you have to let it go out of business. For some reason, they

seem to be against the idea of letting that happen. I'm sure

Darlington will come around, it will be bought by someone else and

keep its position in the leak. In three years' time, it may be in a

administration again. This cannot go on. The Football League have to

say, if you have failed, you are out. There is no rescue, you are

gone. It works in business and it will work in football, I will

guarantee you. As we run this club like the oil companies, and in the

oil business, there is no sentiment. We do not run the football club

like a football club. The manager is not told at the beginning of the

season that he has a budget to spend. If there is anyone here he

is interested in a player, they have to follow a procedure, which

is a normal, something like we had in the oil business for buying

equipment. There is talk of purchasing Victoria Park and owning

it out right. What is happening now? We took on a East one we took

over the club and it is for 65 years with 50 years left. We pay

annual rent to the Council. The main thing is for the council to

recognise that this is not their crown jewels, it is an economic

benefit to the town and the people of Hartlepool, and the region. If

we cannot look after our business after 14 years, bent there may be a

time when the owners say they are not going to invest any more. We do

not wanted to happen, but we have to be realistic. Investing 30

million in a business that is not yours, I don't think anyone will do

A very honest interview with Ken Hodcroft. You can hear it in full

on our website. Does his frankness shock you? He is unbelievably

honest. Reading what he is saying, he is saying that if he pulls out

of the club, our people are doomed and they go out of business

completely because they are losing �1.5 million a year. If he goes,

the club is doomed and they are Do you like being compared to a

piece of equipment? You cannot run a football club like a business.

Why not? It is not just his ambition. If you buy a piece of

equipment you know what that equipment will do. If you buy a

printer or it will print sheets. If you buy a player it is not the same.

Sometimes the are good. Sometimes they're bad. It is the human

element. He is incredibly honest. I can see what he's doing, but he has

got no emotion for the football club or the players. But the way he

has gone about it has been a success for one decade. He said it

cost him at �1.5 million per year. In business you can be successful,

but there is not much to win. wanted to get involved for the

exposure and the advertisement for his company. It does not sit well

with me. As a supporter I want Mike German to come out and say what he

stands for. -- I want the chairman. He sacked his manager because the

results were not right. Hartlepool have been trying to help their

neighbours out. On the subject of Darlington what a dramatic day last

Wednesday. At lunchtime it looked like 129 years of history have come

to an end. Then a those heroic supporters came along with the big

bag of cash. The club keep going for three more games. Seven days

ago you suggested that they should go out of business. 6,000 people

turned up at the game. �8,000. Where would they have been if the

club had gone bust? I said that the business model was fundamentally

broken. What I would say to Darlington supporters is come out

again next weekend and for the rest of the season. And we will need

another bag of �50,000, because that money will run out. I will

shove a few quid in a pot of somebody comes by. Someone has come

in at the last minute. It is just a stop gap. It is not a stop-gap.

These people are going to take it over as a leisure facility. It

could work. The talk is that the council will relax a covenant.

There might be some houses. There might be some leisure facilities.

It needs to be sustainable. That is the point that I was trying to make.

On to Hartlepool's game at the weekend. A commendable. Away at

Hillsborough. What is a reasonable target for them this season?

think top half is a reasonable think top half is a reasonable

target. If they could get near the play-offs, then brilliant. This is

a great result. That is one hell of a strike. I think the goalkeeper

may be disappointed when he sees may be disappointed when he sees

that one. I am glad he had the best comedy was celebrating! I have seen

his body! Carlisle missed a chance to retake a place in the play-offs.

Should we be concerned about their Should we be concerned about their

consistency? Lee Miller got the goal. It is a disappointing penalty

to give away. Was it a penalty? Anywhere else on the pitch it is a

foul. Unless these clubs get massive investment it is a constant

massive investment it is a constant juggling act to key players happy.

Still to come - Middlesbrough see Before we see the Middlesbrough

game, Steve Bruce believes there is no substitute for experience. Jack

Watson, his chief scout, is 90 years old. Tony Mowbray snapped him

up. Our reporter has been to meet the Scout master. They reckon I am

the oldest scrotum the country. When Jack get excited about a

player I get excited about a player. I am a co-ordinator for want of a

better name. He has not always had a fancy a job title, but he has

been a scout for over half a century. Awareness, vision, pace,

commitment. It clicks street away. Sometimes if he does not fancy then

he might want to continue to monitor them. I like to see them

play home and away. Sometimes they are different players when they are

at home. Jack head up a scouting network. We have built it up. We

have got five or six now. We follow them up to see if players should be

washed again. It is a different world now. In my the you did

everything. I had to do the coaching as well. Although he has

adapted to some modern ways, not all. It is not for the want of

trying. The lad to try to get me in vault, but I prefer their pen and

ink. Under par while he worked with Bob

Stone Co. He lets me get on with things. If I said I was happy with

someone he would accept that. was the chief scout when it Tony

Mowbray signed for Middlesbrough in the 1980s. Since Tony Mowbray

became a manager Jack has gone with them, from Hibernian, to Celtic, to

Middlesbrough. It sets the standard attire football club. The people

here are wonderful. Michael Parkinson! I get to the mickey-

taking out at me from time to time. But I enjoy a joke. You know

instantly whether you like somebody are not. If you can polish somebody

up the are going to be a star. try to keep everything in my head.

I continue to do it that way. seems to me is if he has a

photographic memory. I will mention to him something about some player

and he will say that he saw that player two years ago. He has a

recollection at I rely upon. I am not standing over him watching him.

I let him get on with his job. have worked with some good managers,

but Tony Mowbray is number one. He has looked after me. And Tony

Mowbray expects and Jack to find Mort footballing gems. I am sure

there is somebody just round the corner that we're looking at at the

moment. An incredible achievement. That transcends so many generations.

He is a brilliant fellow. I know him. I going to the training ground

to see him. He is as sharp as attack. He has masses of experience.

He is the man. Do you remember who skidded you? I do. There was a guy

called Kit Carson. It is a talent to pick up players when the a 12 or

13 years old and see something in them and have the belief. He picked

up Chris Sutton, Craig Bellamy. To be able to pick a player at 12 or

13 years old and see the potential - there are very few people could

come to that. Look at what his coach has done at Newcastle.

Potentially a club can love or Danny by the decisions of this goat.

Especially when you're spending that kind of money. It is not

peanuts. That shows the value of having someone trusted who knows a

player and can spot a player. game is now swede in statistics and

technology. Is there a substitute for her eyes and ears? What is the

difference between watching on up a video and going there. On Aberdeen

or you are shown what they want to see. If you go where you see their

attitude of the ball, their body language. At top scout is valuable.

I thought Kevin Thomson was I thought Kevin Thomson was

unfortunate to get sent off. There was no malice and that tackle. He

got a yellow card. Middlesbrough were in control of the game in the

first half. They had good chances in the first 15 minutes. There did

not take them. That is a harsh yellow-card. You are a

Middlesbrough at legend. You can see by the referee gives two

bookings. It is slightly worrying for Middlesbrough. Three straight

defeats. The need to bounce back quickly. The need a shake-up. With

a young, small squat it is always very difficult. What is a

difference there? Is it environment? Sometimes you go to a

club and it does not look for you. You were always full of fire on

your debut. It helps when you're playing against 10 men because you

playing against 10 men because you have more space. Blue Square

Premier side Gateshead are looking to achieve affected the in the

sport of Footgolf. -- to get a Welcome to Gateshead. First to go

Second on the tee is a fake tan! Well done! Craig Baxter! Mickey

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds

Martin Britain. The second half of Sally Gunnell!

Next it is the best-looking man in the dressing room.

Now it is the youngest flat in the changing-room. -- the youngest man.

Well done! I was disappointed with plants to be honest! -- with the

lads. We have an leader board. Bayfield to pep Carlisle. It is the

same hole every week. Have a look same hole every week. Have a look

at this. This is from the Yeovil game. He had a fight with his

captain. That is incredible. There are one or two issues where centre-

forwards come on and try to get the forwards come on and try to get the

glory. During the game normally a manager says if you were on the

pitch you take the penalty. It was the captain's responsibility.

Another victory for Sunderland. What is realistic for them? If they

can stay where they are now that will be brilliant. It will be a

tough game for them at the weekend. He has got him going. They are

playing with lot of confidence. Middlesbrough have a chance?

would like to think so. But they have a few suspensions in midfield.

It will be tough but they will give it a go. Newcastle's capitulation -

agreed quote from the Fulham manager. He said in the first half

it was a stroll in Brixton, in the second cap it was a holiday in

Jamaica. He is referring to the fact that Newcastle conceded four.

What do you do after a result like that? Newcastle were fine in the

first half. Then there was a debate, was it inside, was that outside?

That has not been like them this season so far. If it does not

happen again next week you must If they get Demba Ba back and their