Special Scrum V


Special

The Welsh Rugby Union and its professional regions are locked in dispute over money and control of the game. Gareth Lewis hosts a special debate on an uncertain future.


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Transcript


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Good evening. Welcome to scrum five at a time when the professional game

:00:15.:00:17.

in Wales is either in crisis at a time when the professional game

:00:18.:00:24.

one. Tonight for one. Tonighd for t`e first timd,

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since the row between regions and silce the row between regaons `nd

:00:26.:00:27.

union became public before silce the row between regaons `nd

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Christmas, we have both silce the row between regaons `nd

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together in public around the table togedher hn public around the table

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for the first time. togedher hn public around the table

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for dhe firct time. e togedher hn public around the table

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why they are locked in dispute, why dhey `re locked in dispute,

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what's the solution could be and what's thd colution could be and

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potentially the consequences if they potentially the bonsequdnces if they

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can't agree. We have also invited an potentially the bonsequdnces if they

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audience of rugby experts, legal au`ience nf rugbx experts, leg`l

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experts, their representatives and au`ience nf rugbx experts, leg`l

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people whose names are synonymous au`ience nf rugbx experts, leg`l

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with Welsh rugby. We have Roger Lewis, Chief Executive of the WRU

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an` Lewis, Chief Executive of the WRU

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and a man w`o Lewis, Chief Executive of the WRU

:00:59.:01:00.

and a man who has overseen record Lewis, Chief Executive of the WRU

:01:01.:01:01.

annual turnover of more than ?60 anlual tupnover nf more t`an ?60

:01:02.:01:02.

million for the group. Gareth anlual tupnover nf more t`an ?60

:01:03.:01:05.

Daties, former Wales anlual tupnover nf more t`an ?60

:01:06.:01:06.

Davies, former Wales captain and anlual tupnover nf more t`an ?60

:01:07.:01:06.

Lions fly half, Chief Executive of anlual tupnover nf more t`an ?60

:01:07.:01:08.

the Newport Gwent Dragons. the Newpopt Gwent Dragons. All

:01:09.:01:12.

Greece, Rugby the Newpopt Gwent Dragons. All

:01:13.:01:13.

Greece, Rtgby coprespondent for Greece, Rugby correspondent for the

:01:14.:01:13.

Guardian and Observer Greece, Rugby correspondent for the

:01:14.:01:15.

Guardian and bsdrver who Greece, Rugby correspondent for the

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followed every twist Greece, Rugby correspondent for the

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fohlowed every twist and turn nf followed every twist and turn of

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this story. And Martyn Thomas, based in Wales but former chief executive

:01:20.:01:22.

this story. And Martyn Thomas, based and chairman of the RFU in England.

:01:23.:01:30.

A warm welcome to our panel. We will hear from the panel

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A warm welcome to our panel. but before we do that, let's remind

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A warm welcome to our panel. ourselves of why we are where we are

:01:35.:01:36.

oupselves of why we are w`ere ve are with a little bit of help from our

:01:37.:01:37.

oupselves of why we are w`ere ve are rugby correspondent, and

:01:38.:01:38.

rugby correcponddnt, and with Charles. --

:01:39.:01:41.

rugby correcponddnt, and with Charles. ,- with Charles.

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rugby correcponddnt, and with This week the squad for the Six

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This week t`e squad for t`e Six Nations was announced but how many

:01:48.:01:49.

Napions was announced btt how lany of the 15 lining up with the

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Napions was announced btt how lany in Wales next season?

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Napions was announced btt how lany with many of our stars out

:01:56.:02:03.

Napions was announced btt how lany Now the four professional regions in

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Now the foub prodession`l regions in Wales are threatening to take

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Wahec are t`reatenang to take flight. In a bitter

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Wahec are t`reatenang to take flig`t. Il a bitter row

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Wahec are t`reatenang to take flight. In a bitter row over money,

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control flight. In a bitter row over money,

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coltbol and flight. In a bitter row over money,

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refused to do flight. In a bitter row over money,

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no deal is reached by the flight. In a bitter row over money,

:02:14.:02:14.

no deal is beached by the end flight. In a bitter row over money,

:02:15.:02:15.

month, flight. In a bitter row over money,

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molt`, they flight. In a bitter row over money,

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month, they say they will jump ship. flight. In a bitter row over money,

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It has been just over flight. In a bitter row over money,

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since Regional Rugby Wales created since eghonal Rtgby Wales created

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in the forming since eghonal Rtgby Wales created

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in t`e fopming od the since eghonal Rtgby Wales created

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in the forming of the Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys and Dragons. That

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in the forming of the Blues, period has resulted in huge

:02:30.:02:33.

period har besulted in huge subcess for the national side but

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period har besulted in huge subcess bag for the regions. The Ospreys

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bag for the regions. Thd Ospreys have won the domestic league four

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bag for the regions. Thd Ospreys times but on the biggest stage,

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tiiec but on the baggest stage, the Heineken Cup, the regions have

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Heineken Bu`, thd regions have failed to make thear mark. But

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Heineken Bu`, thd regions have failed to make their mark. But it's

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Heineken Bu`, thd regions have off the field where the regions have

:02:50.:02:52.

Heineken Bu`, thd regions have really stpuggled, An

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Heineken Bu`, thd regions have really struggled. In 2012, an

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really struggled, An 2012, an independent report said they had

:02:54.:02:54.

inde`endelt repopt said t`ey h`d been poorly managed. It also

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inde`endelt repopt said t`ey h`d been poorly manafed. It also called

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inde`endelt repopt said t`ey h`d for the WRU and the regions to work

:03:01.:03:01.

togedher for the WRU and the regions to work

:03:02.:03:01.

together to tackle the issues. The togedher to tackle the hssues. The

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regions tried to address togedher to tackle the hssues. The

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financial problems by introducing a togedher to tackle the hssues. The

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salary cap. togedher to tackle the hssues. The

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salaby cap. But players togedher to tackle the hssues. The

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salary cap. But players continued to sahaby cap. But players continted to

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leave Wales for clubs in England and sahaby cap. But players continted to

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France. Simmerinf sahaby cap. But players continted to

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France. Simmering tensions came to a France. Simmerinf tensions camd to a

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head last summer as European France. Simmerinf tensions camd to a

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rugby descended into chaos. France. Simmerinf tensions camd to a

:03:23.:03:25.

existing Eubopeal competition, the France. Simmerinf tensions camd to a

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Heineken, is in jeopardy, after Heineken, ic in heopardx, after

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English clubs pulled Heineken, ic in heopardx, after

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Englash clubs pulled out Heineken, ic in heopardx, after

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English clubs pulled out and came up wiph

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English clubs pulled out and came up with an alternative competition,

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English clubs pulled out and came up rugby champions cup. If British

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English clubs pulled out and came up Irish toupnament

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English clubs pulled out and came up Irish tournament with a promise of

:03:40.:03:39.

English clubs pulled out and came up more money and control. The regions

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wanted but the WRU are committed walted but dhe WPU are bommitted to

:03:44.:03:45.

the existing Heineken Cup. Any walted but dhe WPU are bommitted to

:03:46.:03:49.

attempt by the regions to break away from the union would have

:03:50.:03:50.

attempt by the regions to break away from the unaon would have serious

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consequenbec. We know that if one doesn't sign and

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consequenbec. agreement there isn't a region and

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that is the consequence of agreement there isn't a region and

:03:57.:04:01.

The deadline for sagninf agreement there isn't a region and

:04:02.:04:04.

resolution and the row has rumbled on.

:04:05.:04:09.

As regions we prepared points as As regionr ge prepared poants `s to

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what has worked and what hasn't. We submatted

:04:14.:04:13.

what has worked and what hasn't. We su`matted t`at

:04:14.:04:14.

what has worked and what hasn't. We submitted that to the union

:04:15.:04:15.

what has worked and what hasn't. We told it

:04:16.:04:17.

what has worked and what hasn't. We tohd it wasn't for discussion. That

:04:18.:04:17.

what has worked and what hasn't. We is unreasonable behaviour.

:04:18.:04:20.

I think the future is is unreasonable behaviour.

:04:21.:04:22.

I phink the future is uncertain, I think the future is uncertain,

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whatever the outcome. If we stay I think the future is uncertain,

:04:23.:04:24.

with the union, I fear that unless I think the future is uncertain,

:04:25.:04:28.

there is an improvement, I think the future is uncertain,

:04:29.:04:30.

will be the downfall and there will be an exoduc of layers.

:04:31.:04:31.

be an exodus of layers. It is about the family of rugby and

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It is about the damily nf rugbx and grouping of people together

:04:35.:04:36.

grou`ing nf people together for a reason. We will lose that if

:04:37.:04:38.

reason. Wd gill lose th`t if regional rugby dies on its feet.

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reason. Wd gill lose th`t if For some people, the dispute has now

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reason. Wd gill lose th`t if become critical. Welsh Rugby Union

:04:44.:04:45.

reason. Wd gill lose th`t if was at tipping pnint.

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reason. Wd gill lose th`t if was at tipping point. I

:04:49.:04:48.

reason. Wd gill lose th`t if was at tipping pnint. I t`ink ht

:04:49.:04:49.

reason. Wd gill lose th`t if probably the biggest crisis

:04:50.:04:50.

probably the bigfest crisas we have faced in professional rugby.

:04:51.:04:53.

probably the bigfest crisas we have The WRU have now offered the

:04:54.:04:56.

probably the bigfest crisas we have a new working contract and talks are

:04:57.:04:58.

ongoang. a new working contract and talks are

:04:59.:04:59.

ongoing. The stake wouldn't be a new working contract and talks are

:05:00.:05:01.

higher but time is running out. a new working contract and talks are

:05:02.:05:05.

The future of the game is in the bahance.

:05:06.:05:07.

The future of the game is in the balance. You get the idea.

:05:08.:05:09.

The future of the game is in the future is unclear as far as

:05:10.:05:10.

The future of the game is in the professional rugby

:05:11.:05:11.

The future of the game is in the professiolal rugby goes. ThOse

:05:12.:05:11.

The future of the game is in the professional rugby goes. Those talks

:05:12.:05:11.

professiolal rug`y goes. Those talks have been taking place since January

:05:12.:05:15.

hate been taking place rince J`nuary six.

:05:16.:05:15.

hate been taking place rince J`nuary The question is where are we with

:05:16.:05:19.

The auestion is vhere are we with those discussions and how far away

:05:20.:05:22.

The auestion is vhere are we with from agreement are we? Roger Lewis,

:05:23.:05:23.

The auestion is vhere are we with where does

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The auestion is vhere are we with We have met on four occasions. There

:05:26.:05:30.

We have mdt on four occasaons. There have been 31-on-1 -- 31-on-1

:05:31.:05:41.

We have mdt on four occasaons. There meetings. We met on Wednesday this

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meetings. We met on ednesday this week with both sides with our

:05:43.:05:44.

lawyers ald week with both sides with our

:05:45.:05:45.

lawyers and the regions week with both sides with our

:05:46.:05:49.

both sides. week with both sides with our

:05:50.:05:50.

boph sides. The pegions are week with both sides with our

:05:51.:05:54.

at the rugby meeting with Stuart week with both sides with our

:05:55.:05:57.

Gallacher and Gareth Jenkins. Our financial people met on Wednesday as

:05:58.:05:58.

wehl. financial people met on Wednesday as

:05:59.:06:01.

well. Documents have been exchanged an`

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well. Documents have been exchanged and we are now waiting

:06:02.:06:04.

well. Documents have been exchanged and ge are now waiting from

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well. Documents have been exchanged and we are now waiting from the

:06:05.:06:05.

regions ol our ppimary document regions on our primary document but

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we sent that on Friday. Further discessiols took

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we sent that on Friday. Further discussions took place yesterday. I

:06:12.:06:12.

we sent that on Friday. Further spoke to the chairman of Regional

:06:13.:06:17.

we sent that on Friday. Further Rugby Wales yesterday and we will be

:06:18.:06:18.

tahkang Rugby Wales yesterday and we will be

:06:19.:06:18.

talking further on Monday and Rugby Wales yesterday and we will be

:06:19.:06:20.

further information will be shared. Ara

:06:21.:06:20.

further information will be shared. Are you close? I'm encouraged not.

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further information will be shared. I think that a stand-up what

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further information will be shared. been going on. The meetings

:06:32.:06:33.

further information will be shared. been goinf on. The meetings have

:06:34.:06:34.

further information will be shared. been on the operational

:06:35.:06:39.

further information will be shared. -- operational issue. I think where

:06:40.:06:40.

-- o`erational issue. I t`ink vhere we have a problem currently is some

:06:41.:06:46.

-- o`erational issue. I t`ink vhere of the fundamental issues of the

:06:47.:06:47.

-- o`erational issue. I t`ink vhere agreement between the union and

:06:48.:06:49.

-- o`erational issue. I t`ink vhere the development of additional rugby

:06:50.:06:50.

in t`e the development of additional rugby

:06:51.:06:52.

in the sense that we don't know what the development of additional rugby

:06:53.:06:56.

competitions we are playing in. We have got supporters who don't

:06:57.:06:58.

competitions we are playing in. We hate got supporters who don't jnow

:06:59.:06:58.

competitions we are playing in. We what is happening. So agreement is

:06:59.:07:00.

nop" what is happening. So agreement is

:07:01.:07:07.

not" Mac ,- not close? Revenues

:07:08.:07:08.

not" Mac ,- not close? Retenues `re falling

:07:09.:07:08.

not" Mac ,- not close? Revenues are falling and that is

:07:09.:07:09.

not" Mac ,- not close? critical. The third element that

:07:10.:07:11.

critical. T`e thhrd element th`t have come under my reader radar

:07:12.:07:17.

have come under ly readdr radar and to correct your introduction, this

:07:18.:07:19.

to correct qour hntrodubtaon, this isn't a crisis about the

:07:20.:07:20.

isn'd a cricis a`out thd professional game,

:07:21.:07:21.

isn'd a cricis a`out thd professional gamd, this is a

:07:22.:07:21.

isn'd a cricis a`out thd professional game, this is a crisis

:07:22.:07:22.

isn'd a cricis a`out thd about the game

:07:23.:07:22.

isn'd a cricis a`out thd aboud the game il Wales.

:07:23.:07:23.

isn'd a cricis a`out thd about the game in Wales. We have

:07:24.:07:24.

about the game il Wales. We have had positive meetings with premiership

:07:25.:07:26.

clqbc positive meetings with premiership

:07:27.:07:26.

clubs and community clubs who are positive meetings with premiership

:07:27.:07:30.

experiencing exactly the same problems we are. Figures may be

:07:31.:07:33.

experiencing exactly the same different but the issues are

:07:34.:07:34.

experiencing exactly the same same. I think it is time

:07:35.:07:41.

experiencing exactly the same very reasonable. What is

:07:42.:07:42.

experiencing exactly the same understanding as to how bitter and

:07:43.:07:44.

deap understanding as to how bitter and

:07:45.:07:48.

deep these visions are? The divicions

:07:49.:07:48.

deep these visions are? The divisions are deep. You have seen

:07:49.:07:50.

deep these visions are? The that last year. We have deep policy

:07:51.:07:56.

that last year. Ve have deep pnlicy divides, rather than personality

:07:57.:07:59.

that last year. Ve have deep pnlicy divides. I would like to see much

:08:00.:08:00.

that last year. Ve have deep pnlicy more devolved power, setting up

:08:01.:08:03.

regional boards or regional unions, more devolved power, setting up

:08:04.:08:04.

like you having New Zealand, where like you hafing Lew ealand, where

:08:05.:08:06.

the region comes at like you hafing Lew ealand, where

:08:07.:08:09.

tha begiol comes at the top of the the region comes at the top of the

:08:10.:08:10.

pyramid, just the region comes at the top of the

:08:11.:08:10.

pypamid, juct as Wales vould the region comes at the top of the

:08:11.:08:11.

pyramid, just as Wales would be at the region comes at the top of the

:08:12.:08:12.

tha dop of the region comes at the top of the

:08:13.:08:12.

the top of the overall pyramid. What the region comes at the top of the

:08:13.:08:13.

is the the region comes at the top of the

:08:14.:08:13.

is t`e view the region comes at the top of the

:08:14.:08:13.

is the view from the region comes at the top of the

:08:14.:08:14.

is t`e view from England as the region comes at the top of the

:08:15.:08:15.

is the view from England as to what is going on in Wales?

:08:16.:08:17.

Tha is going on in Wales?

:08:18.:08:18.

The issue you got is going on in Wales?

:08:19.:08:20.

Tha issue you got an is going on in Wales?

:08:21.:08:21.

The issue you got in rugby is it is a wobldwide

:08:22.:08:23.

The issue you got in rugby is it is a worldwide sport and the power of

:08:24.:08:24.

The issue you got in rugby is it is the French with money is

:08:25.:08:28.

The issue you got in rugby is it is astronomical. So the French are to

:08:29.:08:31.

blame? When the game went rational, the English clubs had the money

:08:32.:08:34.

blame? When the game went rational, there were people coming in

:08:35.:08:36.

blame? When the game went rational, there were `eople cominf an who were

:08:37.:08:36.

there were people coming in who were of lamited value to the

:08:37.:08:37.

there were people coming in who were of limited value to the game. There

:08:38.:08:39.

was a belief that there was a of limited value to the game. There

:08:40.:08:41.

of gold at the end of the of gold at dhe eld of the rugbx

:08:42.:08:43.

rainbow. There is no crock of of gold at dhe eld of the rugbx

:08:44.:08:45.

There is merely pain and cost. In There is lebely paan and cost. In

:08:46.:08:50.

England it is easier to get sponsorship.

:08:51.:08:55.

sponcorshhp. People are trying

:08:56.:08:56.

sponcorshhp. People are dryinf to portray

:08:57.:08:56.

sponcorshhp. People are trying to portray this as

:08:57.:08:57.

a crisis in Welsh rugby. Let's a crasis in Welsh rugby. Let's look

:08:58.:08:59.

positively at what has taken posidively at wh`t has tacen place

:09:00.:09:02.

in Welsh rugby and let's look forward and

:09:03.:09:03.

in Welsh rugby and let's look fopward and reflect,

:09:04.:09:03.

in Welsh rugby and let's look forward and reflect, as we look

:09:04.:09:04.

forward, on what we have forward and reflect, as we look

:09:05.:09:07.

We have achieved three championship wins since 2006. We have one to

:09:08.:09:12.

grand slams. e wins since 2006. We have one to

:09:13.:09:19.

World Cup. Our own 20s have been in Wopld up, Our own 20s have been in

:09:20.:09:20.

the final of the world tha final of the world

:09:21.:09:21.

Championships... tha final of the world

:09:22.:09:23.

I'm going to stop tha final of the world

:09:24.:09:24.

I'i going to stop qou tha final of the world

:09:25.:09:25.

I'm going to stop you because it has I'm going to stop qou bdcause ht has

:09:26.:09:26.

all been documented. We know how I'm going to stop qou bdcause ht has

:09:27.:09:31.

well Wales have done over the past six or seven years. The Bathgate is

:09:32.:09:33.

a Scarlets supporter. What do the a Scarlets cuppopter. What do the

:09:34.:09:37.

supporters feel? I think there is supporters feel? I thinj there is a

:09:38.:09:41.

huge element of frustration. supporters feel? I thinj there is a

:09:42.:09:46.

is no control over the game below supporters feel? I thinj there is a

:09:47.:09:47.

inpebnational letel. There supporters feel? I thinj there is a

:09:48.:09:48.

international level. There seems to be no ambition to get vibrant

:09:49.:09:53.

international level. There seems to competition and the unions seems

:09:54.:09:58.

international level. There seems to satisfied that

:09:59.:09:58.

international level. There seems to saticfied t`at the

:09:59.:09:59.

international level. There seems to French are going to run ahead. We

:10:00.:10:01.

international level. There seems to will come onto the money in a

:10:02.:10:06.

moment. We have the chairman of the Welsh

:10:07.:10:06.

moment. We have the chairman of the Wehs` rug`y

:10:07.:10:06.

moment. We have the chairman of the Welsh rugby players Association.

:10:07.:10:10.

moment. We have the chairman of the If it --

:10:11.:10:11.

moment. We have the chairman of the If id -- hs

:10:12.:10:11.

moment. We have the chairman of the If it -- is there

:10:12.:10:11.

moment. We have the chairman of the If id -- hs there a danger

:10:12.:10:12.

If it -- is there a danger that this could

:10:13.:10:12.

If it -- is there a danger that this coqld have an

:10:13.:10:13.

If it -- is there a danger that this could have an effect on performances

:10:14.:10:13.

and perhaps put in jeopardy could have an effect on performances

:10:14.:10:16.

everything Roger Lewis has could have an effect on performances

:10:17.:10:17.

talking about? could have an effect on performances

:10:18.:10:20.

I would like to think could have an effect on performances

:10:21.:10:20.

I woeld like to thank it won't I would like to think it won't

:10:21.:10:21.

affect players performances because afdect players pdrformances because

:10:22.:10:22.

they are there to be a professional afdect players pdrformances because

:10:23.:10:24.

rugby player. There is rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:25.:10:27.

uncertainty of whether they are rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:28.:10:28.

going to be rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:29.:10:28.

going to `e playhng rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:29.:10:29.

going to be playing or whether they rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:30.:10:29.

will be in contract next year and in rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:30.:10:32.

what competitions against who rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:33.:10:35.

what compdtations againrt who and rugbq plaxeb. Thdre is that

:10:36.:10:35.

ara dhey going to be supportive are they going to be supportive

:10:36.:10:36.

thaib? are they going to be supportive

:10:37.:10:38.

their? I think that is going to are they going to be supportive

:10:39.:10:39.

influence players decisions on where indluence players decishons on where

:10:40.:10:42.

their future lies and if you are indluence players decishons on where

:10:43.:10:47.

offered a contract, whether it is in Wahec,

:10:48.:10:47.

offered a contract, whether it is in Wales, Enfland

:10:48.:10:48.

offered a contract, whether it is in Wales, England or France, where

:10:49.:10:48.

offered a contract, whether it is in that most certaintq

:10:49.:10:50.

offered a contract, whether it is in that most certainty for that day to

:10:51.:10:53.

keap a that most certainty for that day to

:10:54.:10:53.

keep a roof over his head? Talking keap a roof over has head? Talking

:10:54.:10:55.

of contracts, there are these six keap a roof over has head? Talking

:10:56.:11:01.

WRU central contracts. The Gelsh Regby Tnaon

:11:02.:11:03.

WRU central contracts. The Welsh Rugby Union would

:11:04.:11:03.

WRU central contracts. employ up to six top players this

:11:04.:11:05.

mornang. employ up to six top players this

:11:06.:11:07.

morning. Apparently employ up to six top players this

:11:08.:11:08.

mopning. @p`arently the employ up to six top players this

:11:09.:11:08.

morning. Apparently the Wales captain Sam Warbtrton

:11:09.:11:09.

morning. Apparently the Wales captain Sam Warburton is on the

:11:10.:11:09.

captain Sam Warbtrton is on thd verge of

:11:10.:11:13.

captain Sam Warbtrton is on thd contracting players a

:11:14.:11:13.

captain Sam Warbtrton is on thd contbacting playdrs a solution?

:11:14.:11:15.

I met with the chairman of the I met with the chairman of the

:11:16.:11:20.

players Association this week and Garedh

:11:21.:11:21.

players Association this week and Gareth Davies and I met on Thursday

:11:22.:11:22.

morning. That discussion was all Gareth Davies and I met on Thursday

:11:23.:11:26.

about how we bring back Gareth Davies and I met on Thursday

:11:27.:11:26.

aboud how we bring back to Gareth Davies and I met on Thursday

:11:27.:11:26.

about how we bring back to Wales top aboud how we brilg back to Wales top

:11:27.:11:27.

talent that is left. tahent th`t is left. Th`t's at the

:11:28.:11:32.

heart of the negotiation that we are tahent th`t is left. Th`t's at the

:11:33.:11:33.

undertaking with the regions at the tahent th`t is left. Th`t's at the

:11:34.:11:35.

moment. To pick up on... Is it extra tahent th`t is left. Th`t's at the

:11:36.:11:43.

money, Roger? The Welsh Rugby Union can identify

:11:44.:11:45.

money, Roger? extra money if we can reach

:11:46.:11:48.

money, Roger? agreement and at the heart of

:11:49.:11:50.

money, Roger? agreement is retaining our best

:11:51.:11:51.

money, Roger? talent in Wales, incentivise in

:11:52.:11:53.

money, Roger? regions to retain talent, rewarding

:11:54.:11:56.

money, Roger? those regions who develop and retain

:11:57.:12:00.

tahent those regions who develop and retain

:12:01.:12:01.

talent and gorking with t`ose talent and working with those

:12:02.:12:01.

regions who are tnable talent and working with those

:12:02.:12:02.

regions who are unable to do that to talent and working with those

:12:03.:12:03.

drop them sustain. talent and working with those

:12:04.:12:07.

Where is the extra money coming from?

:12:08.:12:11.

It is additional money if we can reach agreement

:12:12.:12:17.

It is additional money if we can reac` agreement hf

:12:18.:12:17.

It is additional money if we can reach agreement if we reach this

:12:18.:12:18.

It is additional money if we can agpeement, I can

:12:19.:12:18.

It is additional money if we can agreement, I can create further

:12:19.:12:19.

infantry dob agreement, I can create further

:12:20.:12:21.

infantry for Welsh rugby. agreement, I can create further

:12:22.:12:23.

infantry dob Welsh rugbx. Where agreement, I can create further

:12:24.:12:24.

infantry for Welsh rugby. Where is agreement, I can create further

:12:25.:12:25.

this extra money to potentially contbact

:12:26.:12:25.

this extra money to potentially coltbact six

:12:26.:12:25.

this extra money to potentially contract six players to come from?

:12:26.:12:29.

Tha contract six players to come from?

:12:30.:12:30.

The money comes from our relationship with our key partners,

:12:31.:12:33.

who dogetheb, relationship with our key partners,

:12:34.:12:34.

who together, over the relationship with our key partners,

:12:35.:12:34.

who together, ovdr the last relationship with our key partners,

:12:35.:12:35.

who together, over the last seven yearc,

:12:36.:12:35.

who together, over the last seven years, have

:12:36.:12:38.

who together, over the last seven years, hate genepated

:12:39.:12:39.

years, have generated 32% increase in revenues for the game.

:12:40.:12:42.

years, have generated 32% increase Since 2006, the regions have an

:12:43.:12:44.

years, have generated 32% increase increase of

:12:45.:12:45.

years, have generated 32% increase increase nf 102%

:12:46.:12:45.

years, have generated 32% increase increase of 102% in distribution.

:12:46.:12:50.

years, have generated 32% increase 102%. It

:12:51.:12:54.

years, have generated 32% increase laughter it was 16.8 million. The

:12:55.:12:58.

years, have generated 32% increase numbers in the game

:12:59.:12:58.

years, have generated 32% increase numbers il dhe game and

:12:59.:12:59.

numbers in the game and what we have achieved hn

:13:00.:13:00.

numbers in the game and what we have achieved in Wales

:13:01.:13:01.

numbers in the game and what we have achieved hn Wales are vdry

:13:02.:13:02.

numbers in the game and what we have impressive and that is why we were

:13:03.:13:03.

world. voted

:13:04.:13:08.

world. The regions signed a collective

:13:09.:13:09.

world. agreement not to play any players

:13:10.:13:12.

who were central contracted. Does that stand? I think the

:13:13.:13:16.

that stand? I thhnc the agreemdnt signed was that all the regions have

:13:17.:13:17.

that stand? I thhnc the agreemdnt to agree. That is not to say they

:13:18.:13:20.

won'd. won't.

:13:21.:13:20.

Do they agree at the moment? We won't.

:13:21.:13:24.

haven't discussed that fact won't.

:13:25.:13:25.

it isn't on won't.

:13:26.:13:27.

it icn't on the won't.

:13:28.:13:28.

it isn't on the table. The issue aboud

:13:29.:13:28.

it isn't on the table. The issue about central contracts, yes it's

:13:29.:13:30.

important we retain our best layers about central contracts, yes it's

:13:31.:13:33.

but I returned to my about central contracts, yes it's

:13:34.:13:34.

bup A returned to my earlaer about central contracts, yes it's

:13:35.:13:35.

but I returned to my earlier comment about central contracts, yes it's

:13:36.:13:39.

about the fundamental agreement has to be established. On the point of

:13:40.:13:42.

central contracts, if there is extra to be established. On the point of

:13:43.:13:45.

money to keep star players in Wales, to be established. On the point of

:13:46.:13:46.

are the regions going to be established. On the point of

:13:47.:13:48.

are the regaons goang to sit to be established. On the point of

:13:49.:13:48.

are the regions going to sit down? to be established. On the point of

:13:49.:13:50.

Will they sit down and discuss to be established. On the point of

:13:51.:13:51.

whet`er to to be established. On the point of

:13:52.:13:52.

whether to play these players? If we whether to `lay these plaqers? If we

:13:53.:13:55.

have a competition to be in because whether to `lay these plaqers? If we

:13:56.:13:58.

otherwise we are throwing money away. Proper competitions that can

:13:59.:14:02.

away. ropeb competitions that can at least give Welsh rugby the

:14:03.:14:03.

away. ropeb competitions that can opportunity of some kind of

:14:04.:14:05.

sustainabhlaty. opportunity of some kind of

:14:06.:14:07.

sustainability. We don't want to sustainabhlaty. Ve don't want to

:14:08.:14:10.

throw good money after bad because that would be foolish and we have to

:14:11.:14:13.

have other structures right. hate othep ctructures rig`t.

:14:14.:14:15.

Paul Thorburn is in the audience. X hate othep ctructures rig`t.

:14:16.:14:26.

Ospreys and the BYU. -- and WRU. If hate othep ctructures rig`t.

:14:27.:14:30.

you want to play for Wales, what aboud

:14:31.:14:30.

you want to play for Wales, what about Gatland's law, that you have

:14:31.:14:32.

you want to play for Wales, what to play in

:14:33.:14:34.

you want to play for Wales, what to play il Gales,

:14:35.:14:37.

to play in Wales. It isn't going to stop players

:14:38.:14:39.

It isn't foing to stop players necessarily leaving Wales. Even if

:14:40.:14:40.

It isn't foing to stop players they

:14:41.:14:42.

It isn't foing to stop players thay are told that

:14:43.:14:42.

It isn't foing to stop players they are told that they will

:14:43.:14:43.

thay are told th`t they wall nnt play for Wales if they lose?

:14:44.:14:46.

thay are told th`t they wall nnt If they are offered more

:14:47.:14:49.

If t`ey ape offeped more money in France, plus what

:14:50.:14:52.

If t`ey ape offeped more money in pick up for a match fee

:14:53.:14:53.

If t`ey ape offeped more money in in Wales, eferyole would look

:14:54.:14:57.

If t`ey ape offeped more money in for me isn't

:14:58.:14:58.

If t`ey ape offeped more money in fop me isn't about

:14:59.:14:58.

If t`ey ape offeped more money in for me isn't about long,term

:14:59.:15:00.

for me isn't about long-term contbacts, and

:15:01.:15:02.

for me isn't about long-term contracts, and Martin hit the nail

:15:03.:15:02.

for me isn't about long-term on the head, it is about controlling

:15:03.:15:05.

a competition stpucture on the head, it is about controlling

:15:06.:15:07.

a competition structure that is sustainable in the northern

:15:08.:15:08.

hemisphere and making sure that sustainable in the northern

:15:09.:15:11.

unions and teams that play in sustainable in the northern

:15:12.:15:12.

unions and deams that plaq in that unions and teams that play in that

:15:13.:15:12.

coipetition are unions and teams that play in that

:15:13.:15:13.

competition are operating unions and teams that play in that

:15:14.:15:13.

coipetition are nperating on unions and teams that play in that

:15:14.:15:15.

competition are operating on a siiilar

:15:16.:15:15.

competition are operating on a similar playing field in

:15:16.:15:16.

competition are operating on a similar plaqing field in terms of

:15:17.:15:16.

similar playing field in terms of sahaby

:15:17.:15:17.

similar playing field in terms of salaby caps.

:15:18.:15:19.

similar playing field in terms of salary caps. The French are running

:15:20.:15:19.

away like a train out salary caps. The French are running

:15:20.:15:21.

away like a trail out of control and salary caps. The French are running

:15:22.:15:23.

so long as they are involved in any coipetition our

:15:24.:15:23.

so long as they are involved in any competition our regions want to be

:15:24.:15:26.

coipetition our pegions want to be in as well, we will have this same

:15:27.:15:28.

coipetition our pegions want to be competition in five years time.

:15:29.:15:29.

coipetition our pegions want to be There is a proposal for

:15:30.:15:32.

There is ` `roposal for a British and Irish cup. Gareth

:15:33.:15:33.

There is ` `roposal for a British mentioned it. Why

:15:34.:15:37.

There is ` `roposal for a British meltioned it. Why won't

:15:38.:15:38.

There is ` `roposal for a British mentioned it. Why won't the

:15:39.:15:38.

meltaoned id. Whx won't t`e WRT allow the regions to play in

:15:39.:15:39.

meltaoned id. Whx won't t`e WRT allog the regions to play in this

:15:40.:15:40.

meltaoned id. Whx won't t`e WRT new tournament in England?

:15:41.:15:43.

meltaoned id. Whx won't t`e WRT The Welsh Rugby Union will only

:15:44.:15:45.

meltaoned id. Whx won't t`e WRT forward in tournaments that on the

:15:46.:15:46.

contractual agreements we have all coltractu`l agreements ve have all

:15:47.:15:47.

entered into. We will at coltractu`l agreements ve have all

:15:48.:15:51.

entered ilto. We wall at all coltractu`l agreements ve have all

:15:52.:15:51.

entered into. We will at all times entebed ilto. We wall at all times

:15:52.:15:53.

act lawfully and we will act under tha

:15:54.:15:54.

act lawfully and we will act under the aegis of the International Rugby

:15:55.:15:58.

act lawfully and we will act under Board. If you can square all of

:15:59.:15:59.

those thilgc, Board. If you can square all of

:16:00.:15:59.

those things, we will go forward Board. If you can square all of

:16:00.:16:00.

with the tournament. What Board. If you can square all of

:16:01.:16:02.

with the tournamdnt. What about Board. If you can square all of

:16:03.:16:02.

with the tournament. What about your contbact

:16:03.:16:05.

with the tournament. What about your We met on Friday and all six nations

:16:06.:16:12.

with the tournament. What about your meet on Tuesday with all of those

:16:13.:16:13.

with the tournament. What about your elements on the table and the key

:16:14.:16:16.

thing is, everyone has to be in agreement,

:16:17.:16:22.

thing is, everyone has to be in agreement. You sent a letter to

:16:23.:16:23.

meiber agreement. You sent a letter to

:16:24.:16:23.

member clubs asking them to agreement. You sent a letter to

:16:24.:16:25.

encoerage regions agreement. You sent a letter to

:16:26.:16:25.

encourage regions to grow their agreement. You sent a letter to

:16:26.:16:29.

businesses by improving their structures, which sounds like create

:16:30.:16:32.

more money, generate more money. The annual report says

:16:33.:16:34.

more money, generate more money. The annual repobt saxs it

:16:35.:16:34.

more money, generate more money. The annual report says it is one of the

:16:35.:16:36.

more money, generate more money. The priorities, the

:16:37.:16:37.

more money, generate more money. The priobities, the pegions should

:16:38.:16:38.

priorities, the regions should achieve their commercial potential.

:16:39.:16:39.

Thay say achieve their commercial potential.

:16:40.:16:41.

They say they have ?1 million each expra

:16:42.:16:41.

They say they have ?1 million each extra on the table

:16:42.:16:44.

They say they have ?1 million each deal. They are taking -- they are

:16:45.:16:46.

inpo deal. They are taking -- they are

:16:47.:16:46.

into macro boxes, aren't they? deal. They are taking -- they are

:16:47.:16:48.

devil is in the detail and devil is hn the detail `nd Gareth

:16:49.:16:50.

can explain what t`ose cal explahn what t`ose bompetitions

:16:51.:16:52.

are and who is taking part in them cal explahn what t`ose bompetitions

:16:53.:16:54.

because at the cal explahn what t`ose bompetitions

:16:55.:16:55.

becaese at dhe moment we cal explahn what t`ose bompetitions

:16:56.:16:56.

because at the moment we hear the Irish do not wish to take part

:16:57.:16:58.

Irish do lod wish to taje part in it, the French

:16:59.:16:59.

Irish do lod wish to taje part in it( dhe French dn not wis`

:17:00.:16:59.

Irish do lod wish to taje part in it, the French do not wish to take

:17:00.:16:59.

it( dhe Fpench dn not wis` to take part in it, the Italians do not wish

:17:00.:17:01.

it( dhe Fpench dn not wis` to take to take part in it, the Scottish

:17:02.:17:03.

it( dhe Fpench dn not wis` to take hedging their bets and at the moment

:17:04.:17:09.

it( dhe Fpench dn not wis` to take it's an English club led initiative

:17:10.:17:10.

whic` it's an English club led initiative

:17:11.:17:10.

which the it's an English club led initiative

:17:11.:17:11.

indicated they could it's an English club led initiative

:17:12.:17:12.

in`icated t`ey could be it's an English club led initiative

:17:13.:17:12.

indicated they could be interesting. it's an English club led initiative

:17:13.:17:13.

Will you move on it? Is it's an English club led initiative

:17:14.:17:16.

danger of you moving, or is it's an English club led initiative

:17:17.:17:17.

dalger of you moting, or is it a it's an English club led initiative

:17:18.:17:18.

firm no? We will only move if we are it's an English club led initiative

:17:19.:17:19.

acting lawfully and we are it's an English club led initiative

:17:20.:17:22.

acping lawfelly `nd we are acting acting lawfully and we are acting

:17:23.:17:23.

un`eb acting lawfully and we are acting

:17:24.:17:23.

under the acting lawfully and we are acting

:17:24.:17:24.

undeb the rules and acting lawfully and we are acting

:17:25.:17:24.

under the rules and regulations of the International Rugby Board. I

:17:25.:17:26.

under the rules and regulations of don't think it is Roger's decision

:17:27.:17:28.

under the rules and regulations of to move. He could ratify at? I think

:17:29.:17:33.

Roger is to move. He could ratify at? I think

:17:34.:17:33.

Rogeb is hn to move. He could ratify at? I think

:17:34.:17:35.

Roger is in a difficult situation, or the union. The International

:17:36.:17:36.

Rugbq or the union. The International

:17:37.:17:40.

Rugby Board your board require all unions if you are playing

:17:41.:17:42.

Rugby Board your board require all and an addition

:17:43.:17:43.

Rugby Board your board require all and in addition wherever the game

:17:44.:17:44.

Rugby Board your board require all and an addition vherever the game is

:17:45.:17:44.

Rugby Board your board require all being played the union that controls

:17:45.:17:46.

that grould being played the union that controls

:17:47.:17:46.

that ground has to being played the union that controls

:17:47.:17:47.

that grould has to consdnt. Thd being played the union that controls

:17:48.:17:48.

that ground has to consent. The IRB that grould has to consdnt. Thd IRB

:17:49.:17:48.

have made it clear they will not that grould has to consdnt. Thd IRB

:17:49.:17:52.

count -- that grould has to consdnt. Thd IRB

:17:53.:17:53.

cound -- bountenance a bross-border count -- countenance a cross-border

:17:54.:17:54.

competition. It would cut across count -- countenance a cross-border

:17:55.:17:56.

their belief and in fairness thaib belief and in fairness to the

:17:57.:17:57.

IRB they put together the thaib belief and in fairness to the

:17:58.:18:00.

[email protected] they pud togdther the IRC thaib belief and in fairness to the

:18:01.:18:01.

IRB they put together the IRC so you thaib belief and in fairness to the

:18:02.:18:01.

will find it difficult to get IRB thaib belief and in fairness to the

:18:02.:18:05.

consent. The WRU can make a decision as to whether they

:18:06.:18:06.

consent. The WRU can make a decision as to whether thdy consent. I

:18:07.:18:07.

as to whether they consent. I cannot sea

:18:08.:18:08.

as to whether they consent. I cannot see the RFU consenting. Definitely

:18:09.:18:09.

as to whether they consent. I cannot not? In the RFU there is an

:18:10.:18:15.

as to whether they consent. I cannot agreement that does not expire until

:18:16.:18:17.

as to whether they consent. I cannot 2016 where dhe

:18:18.:18:18.

as to whether they consent. I cannot 2016 where the English clubs are

:18:19.:18:19.

as to whether they consent. I cannot required to play in Europe or the

:18:20.:18:20.

as to whether they consent. I cannot European competition until the end

:18:21.:18:21.

of t`at European competition until the end

:18:22.:18:22.

of that season and the European competition until the end

:18:23.:18:23.

of t`at seacon ald the RFU havd European competition until the end

:18:24.:18:23.

of that season and the RFU have been sihent about it

:18:24.:18:25.

of that season and the RFU have been silent about it but I find that

:18:26.:18:25.

sihent abnud it `ut find that agreement with the clubs. On why I

:18:26.:18:28.

find that agreement with the clubs. agreement with the clubs. On why I

:18:29.:18:29.

On why argue so intent on this? It On w`y argue so hntent nn this> It

:18:30.:18:32.

gives us a On w`y argue so hntent nn this> It

:18:33.:18:34.

competition. The alternative is competition. he altern`tave is

:18:35.:18:35.

probably an extended Pro12 competition. he altern`tave is

:18:36.:18:38.

probably an extelded Pro12 with competition. he altern`tave is

:18:39.:18:39.

probably an extended Pro12 with six competition. he altern`tave is

:18:40.:18:39.

teams competition. he altern`tave is

:18:40.:18:39.

teamc from competition. he altern`tave is

:18:40.:18:40.

teams from France plus a Romanian competition. he altern`tave is

:18:41.:18:42.

team of the Portuguese team, or whatever. I can't see these tills

:18:43.:18:46.

team of the Portuguese team, or ringing in regional clubs, lining

:18:47.:18:52.

team of the Portuguese team, or to see thdm playhng

:18:53.:18:53.

team of the Portuguese team, or to see them playing for

:18:54.:18:54.

team of the Portuguese team, or time in a season or whatever. It

:18:55.:18:57.

team of the Portuguese team, or not a meaningful competition. We

:18:58.:18:59.

team of the Portuguese team, or have a lot of

:19:00.:19:01.

team of the Portuguese team, or hate a lot of grassroots people

:19:02.:19:01.

team of the Portuguese team, or have a lot of grassroots people in

:19:02.:19:02.

team of the Portuguese team, or the audience.

:19:03.:19:02.

team of the Portuguese team, or the audielce. Di

:19:03.:19:02.

team of the Portuguese team, or the audience. Di Davis from Newtown

:19:03.:19:03.

team of the Portuguese team, or is with us. It is a long way to come

:19:04.:19:07.

down to Cardiff. What is your take is with us. It is a long way to come

:19:08.:19:09.

on this? It's a community game is with us. It is a long way to come

:19:10.:19:11.

have to be worrying about. We are is with us. It is a long way to come

:19:12.:19:13.

lucky in North Wales we have is with us. It is a long way to come

:19:14.:19:17.

development region, we have a successful regional team currently

:19:18.:19:19.

promoted from division one, successful regional team currently

:19:20.:19:22.

in the championship now, below that we are very flourishing club scene

:19:23.:19:25.

an` we are very flourishing club scene

:19:26.:19:26.

and the North Wales team is made up we are very flourishing club scene

:19:27.:19:27.

of North Wales plaqers. That's is in we are very flourishing club scene

:19:28.:19:31.

itself sending a message to a lot of we are very flourishing club scene

:19:32.:19:35.

you so gentlemen, please get this issue resolved not just at regional

:19:36.:19:38.

WRQ issue resolved not just at regional

:19:39.:19:38.

WRU level but below there issue resolved not just at regional

:19:39.:19:39.

WRQ level but below there the issue resolved not just at regional

:19:40.:19:40.

community game otherwise issue resolved not just at regional

:19:41.:19:41.

commenity game otherwisd we will issue resolved not just at regional

:19:42.:19:41.

community game otherwise we will be hiptang

:19:42.:19:41.

community game otherwise we will be hitting problems. Paul, you have

:19:42.:19:43.

community game otherwise we will be covered these

:19:44.:19:44.

community game otherwise we will be cotebed thece political

:19:45.:19:47.

community game otherwise we will be covered these political stories

:19:48.:19:47.

community game otherwise we will be behind-the-scenes for years and

:19:48.:19:51.

years now. The way it is going, is there an inevitability,

:19:52.:19:52.

years now. The way it is going, is thare an hnevita`ility, no matter

:19:53.:19:53.

there an inevitability, no matter what people might say today, that at

:19:54.:19:57.

some point clubs, regions, whatever yoq

:19:58.:19:57.

some point clubs, regions, whatever you want to call them, will start to

:19:58.:19:58.

some point clubs, regions, whatever control their own destiny

:19:59.:20:01.

some point clubs, regions, whatever coltrol thear owl destiny and

:20:02.:20:01.

some point clubs, regions, whatever control their own destiny and they

:20:02.:20:02.

coltbol thear owl destiny and they will be ndgotiating their

:20:03.:20:03.

coltbol thear owl destiny and they will be negotiating their own TV

:20:04.:20:06.

coltbol thear owl destiny and they deals? Martyn -- Martyn mentioned

:20:07.:20:08.

cross-border tournament is needing deals? Martyn -- Martyn mentioned

:20:09.:20:09.

to be authorised, what they deals? Martyn -- Martyn mentioned

:20:10.:20:11.

said was tnequivncally deals? Martyn -- Martyn mentioned

:20:12.:20:13.

said was unequivocally they want a pan-Europdan

:20:14.:20:14.

said was unequivocally they want a pal-European six

:20:15.:20:14.

said was unequivocally they want a pan-European six Nations

:20:15.:20:15.

said was unequivocally they want a next season, not this Five Nations

:20:16.:20:17.

said was unequivocally they want a you were a chief executive of

:20:18.:20:23.

said was unequivocally they want a region I cannot believe you

:20:24.:20:25.

said was unequivocally they want a prepared to sign up for something

:20:26.:20:26.

said was unequivocally they want a which has no rugby value and has

:20:27.:20:29.

liptle commercial value. APPLAUSE

:20:30.:20:32.

. That is why we are meeting on APPLAUSE

:20:33.:20:38.

Tuesday to resolve this and it has Tuesday to besolte this and it has

:20:39.:20:40.

been written even by ourselves and been written evel by ourselves and

:20:41.:20:44.

with respect you have not been to any of those meetings to discuss the

:20:45.:20:48.

competition format and I'd encourage yoq

:20:49.:20:48.

competition format and I'd encourage you as a bogeyman to join us. The

:20:49.:20:50.

onhy you as a bogeyman to join us. The

:20:51.:20:50.

only way we will resolve this is onhy way ve will resolvd this hs

:20:51.:20:53.

working together -- as a onhy way ve will resolvd this hs

:20:54.:20:55.

wopkang together -- as a rugby onhy way ve will resolvd this hs

:20:56.:20:56.

working together -- as a rugby man onhy way ve will resolvd this hs

:20:57.:20:59.

to join us. There is a crisis across tha

:21:00.:20:59.

to join us. There is a crisis across the game

:21:00.:20:59.

to join us. There is a crisis across tha game in Europe and

:21:00.:21:01.

to join us. There is a crisis across the game in Europe and we need to

:21:02.:21:01.

address our issuds the game in Europe and we need to

:21:02.:21:02.

address our issues together the game in Europe and we need to

:21:03.:21:02.

address our issuds together in WalEs address our issuds together in Wales

:21:03.:21:06.

and move forward together. I'd be dehighted

:21:07.:21:06.

and move forward together. I'd be delighted to attend but from

:21:07.:21:08.

and move forward together. I'd be hear from recent meetings

:21:09.:21:11.

and move forward together. I'd be of competitions, basically there

:21:12.:21:12.

and move forward together. I'd be a stone wall. We are not moving

:21:13.:21:14.

a stone wall. We are not movinf anywhere. I am encouraged if you

:21:15.:21:16.

a stone wall. We are not movinf anywhere. I am elcouragdd if you are

:21:17.:21:16.

anywhere. I am elcouragdd if ynu are saying on Tuesday there will be a

:21:17.:21:18.

anywhere. I am elcouragdd if ynu are meaningful discussion to try

:21:19.:21:20.

anywhere. I am elcouragdd if ynu are determine what is best for European

:21:21.:21:22.

anywhere. I am elcouragdd if ynu are rugby and how it applies to Wales

:21:23.:21:23.

rugbq and how it applies to Wales because it is quite scary when Paul

:21:24.:21:29.

mentioned the TV deal that fans have done, just to get it into

:21:30.:21:30.

pers`ectite, 350 done, just to get it into

:21:31.:21:33.

perspective, 350 million euros done, just to get it into

:21:34.:21:34.

pers`ectite, 350 million euros over peps`ectite, 350 mallion euros over

:21:35.:21:34.

the next five years and the peps`ectite, 350 mallion euros over

:21:35.:21:36.

going into French rugby is peps`ectite, 350 mallion euros over

:21:37.:21:41.

equivalent to the total peps`ectite, 350 mallion euros over

:21:42.:21:42.

eqqifalent do thd total revenuds of equivalent to the total revenues of

:21:43.:21:42.

the Irish, equivalent to the total revenues of

:21:43.:21:44.

the Arish, Welsh and equivalent to the total revenues of

:21:45.:21:45.

unions. If you look at their unions. Id you looc at their

:21:46.:21:46.

commercial income. That coimercial ancomd. That is not a

:21:47.:21:49.

criticism of coimercial ancomd. That is not a

:21:50.:21:50.

critacism of any of the coimercial ancomd. That is not a

:21:51.:21:50.

criticism of any of the unions, it coimercial ancomd. That is not a

:21:51.:21:50.

is jest facds, ald coimercial ancomd. That is not a

:21:51.:21:52.

is just facts, and this train is just facds, ald this train has

:21:53.:21:53.

started running and there is just facds, ald this train has

:21:54.:21:53.

started running `nd there is nn is just facds, ald this train has

:21:54.:21:56.

stopping the train so we can either try and get our own train up and

:21:57.:21:58.

stopping the train so we can either running so we have, that is a

:21:59.:22:01.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a commercial reality we will

:22:02.:22:03.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a to those levels but

:22:04.:22:04.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a we have got? We heard

:22:05.:22:07.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a we have gnt? We heard George

:22:08.:22:10.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a one of the great Welsh players,

:22:11.:22:13.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a Wahec to

:22:14.:22:13.

rulnang sn ge hate, that as a Wales to play meaningful

:22:14.:22:14.

coipetitionc. APPLAUSE

:22:15.:22:16.

We wall APPLAUSE

:22:17.:22:18.

We will all watch with interest this meatang

:22:19.:22:18.

We will all watch with interest this meeting on Tuesday and I might come

:22:19.:22:19.

back to that with qou, meeting on Tuesday and I might come

:22:20.:22:21.

back to that with you, Roger. You meeting on Tuesday and I might come

:22:22.:22:22.

have said, Gareth, if ynu meeting on Tuesday and I might come

:22:23.:22:24.

have said, Gareth, if you don't get meeting on Tuesday and I might come

:22:25.:22:24.

your way on this Champions Cup, meeting on Tuesday and I might come

:22:25.:22:27.

your way nn this C`ampions Cup, the yoqr way nn this C`ampions Cup, the

:22:28.:22:28.

British and Irish cup, whatever it is called, the statement you

:22:29.:22:30.

reheased is called, the statement you

:22:31.:22:31.

released that you would pursue other is called, the statement you

:22:32.:22:33.

competition options is called, the statement you

:22:34.:22:34.

other is called, the statement you

:22:35.:22:34.

otheb words, you is called, the statement you

:22:35.:22:35.

other words, you don't get other words, you don't fet this

:22:36.:22:36.

alternative cup, you look elsewhere, other words, you don't fet this

:22:37.:22:40.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, joining the Premiership in England?

:22:41.:22:41.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, It could well

:22:42.:22:42.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, It could vell be,

:22:43.:22:48.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, It could well be. Was that

:22:49.:22:49.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, It could vell be, Was that A

:22:50.:22:50.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, one from the regions has said on the

:22:51.:22:51.

that is an Anglo-Welsh league, record in public, yes, the

:22:52.:22:54.

Anglo-Welsh league as an record in public, yes, the

:22:55.:22:55.

Anglo- elsh leagte as an option. record in public, yes, the

:22:56.:22:56.

has been alluded to, no one has said record in public, yes, the

:22:57.:22:58.

definitively this is what we definitivdlq this as wh`t we h`ve as

:22:59.:23:00.

an option on the table. I am definitivdlq this as wh`t we h`ve as

:23:01.:23:03.

you back to December 31, when we definitivdlq this as wh`t we h`ve as

:23:04.:23:05.

were faced definitivdlq this as wh`t we h`ve as

:23:06.:23:06.

wepe faced gith definitivdlq this as wh`t we h`ve as

:23:07.:23:06.

were faced with not signing the PA, definitivdlq this as wh`t we h`ve as

:23:07.:23:09.

we did not exist. That was the we dad not exist, That vas the

:23:10.:23:13.

threat looming. It was a huge decicion.

:23:14.:23:14.

threat looming. It was a huge decision. Across the four regions

:23:15.:23:17.

thare decision. Across the four regions

:23:18.:23:17.

there are decision. Across the four regions

:23:18.:23:17.

thare are a`proximately decision. Across the four regions

:23:18.:23:17.

there are approximately 40 directors, a mixture of business

:23:18.:23:20.

people, entrepreneurs, great rugby people, eltbepreleurs, freat rugby

:23:21.:23:21.

guys like Gareth Edwards, David people, eltbepreleurs, freat rugby

:23:22.:23:24.

Watkins, Roger Blyth. That decision Watkins, Poger Blyth. That decision

:23:25.:23:26.

not to sign Watkins, Poger Blyth. That decision

:23:27.:23:27.

not do sign a Watkins, Poger Blyth. That decision

:23:28.:23:28.

not to sign a PA was not taken lightly. There were 40

:23:29.:23:35.

lighdly. There were 40 people unanimously not going for it so

:23:36.:23:37.

lighdly. There were 40 people we had to look at what are the

:23:38.:23:38.

lighdly. There were 40 people options so the first option which

:23:39.:23:43.

oppions sn dhe first option whhch is on January the 31st, would be

:23:44.:23:45.

oppions sn dhe first option whhch is European

:23:46.:23:45.

oppions sn dhe first option whhch is Eupo`ean cup. It

:23:46.:23:47.

oppions sn dhe first option whhch is European cup. It will be if it

:23:48.:23:48.

happens with an extra ?1 million a European cup. It will be if it

:23:49.:23:50.

year coming European cup. It will be if it

:23:51.:23:50.

year comilg from t`e regions European cup. It will be if it

:23:51.:23:52.

are not harming Ireland Scotland. European cup. It will be if it

:23:53.:23:57.

stand because Roger will not agree, European cup. It will be if it

:23:58.:23:59.

England will not agree, the IRB will England will not agree, t`e IRB will

:24:00.:24:02.

not agree. If it doesn't happen, is a place for the four regions in the

:24:03.:24:05.

Aviva Premiership, whatever sponsor a place for the four regions in the

:24:06.:24:09.

it might be, is that an option? It coqld

:24:10.:24:09.

it might be, is that an option? It could be an option. It is an option.

:24:10.:24:13.

Would you like to comment on that? I could be an option. It is an option.

:24:14.:24:16.

do not see a future for t`e could be an option. It is an option.

:24:17.:24:18.

do not see a future for the regions could be an option. It is an option.

:24:19.:24:18.

in the English could be an option. It is an option.

:24:19.:24:18.

in the Englash Ppemiership. I could be an option. It is an option.

:24:19.:24:20.

there are a number of things that could be an option. It is an option.

:24:21.:24:22.

militate against it. The RFU rules could be an option. It is an option.

:24:23.:24:24.

provide could be an option. It is an option.

:24:25.:24:24.

provade it can could be an option. It is an option.

:24:25.:24:26.

provide it can only be a 12 team Premiership. It requires promotion

:24:27.:24:27.

and relegation Premiership. It requires promotion

:24:28.:24:29.

and belegation from Premiership. It requires promotion

:24:30.:24:29.

and relegation from the endless Premiership. It requires promotion

:24:30.:24:30.

championship and for the Premiership Premiership. It requires promotion

:24:31.:24:36.

to turn round, to say to the second tier in England, well we are dumping

:24:37.:24:38.

you guys nog, you tier in England, well we are dumping

:24:39.:24:39.

you guys now, you will not get promoted, look at the way Londnn

:24:40.:24:41.

Welsh were treated, that was promoted, look at the way Londnn

:24:42.:24:43.

Welsh were dreated, that was a promoted, look at the way Londnn

:24:44.:24:43.

disgrace and actually I promoted, look at the way Londnn

:24:44.:24:44.

disgbace and actually I don't disgbace `nd actually I don't think

:24:45.:24:44.

we should allow another organisation disgbace `nd actually I don't think

:24:45.:24:46.

across the Severn Bridge to damage acpocs thd Ceverl Bridgd to dalage

:24:47.:24:50.

what exists there. We have acpocs thd Ceverl Bridgd to dalage

:24:51.:24:53.

English fans here, welcome, you must acpocs thd Ceverl Bridgd to dalage

:24:54.:24:55.

be wondering what on earth you have acpocs thd Ceverl Bridgd to dalage

:24:56.:24:57.

let yourselves in for! Bath fans, a acpocs thd Ceverl Bridgd to dalage

:24:58.:24:59.

straight question, would you straight puestiol, would qou rather

:25:00.:25:02.

face Welsh sides in a competition, straight puestiol, would qou rather

:25:03.:25:04.

or Bristol? straight puestiol, would qou rather

:25:05.:25:04.

or Bbistol? That straight puestiol, would qou rather

:25:05.:25:04.

or Bristol? That might be the quid straight puestiol, would qou rather

:25:05.:25:09.

pro quo. The point Martin made about the idea of having the

:25:10.:25:14.

pro quo. The point Martin made about and an expanded impish Premiership,

:25:15.:25:15.

pro quo. The point Martin made about the qui question

:25:16.:25:16.

pro quo. The point Martin made about the aui quection is would it be ring

:25:17.:25:17.

the qui question is would it be ring fenced and if it wasn't

:25:18.:25:19.

the qui question is would it be ring and there was promotion and

:25:20.:25:20.

rehegatiol, and there was promotion and

:25:21.:25:22.

relegation, promotion from and there was promotion and

:25:23.:25:22.

relegatiol, promotion from Just the and there was promotion and

:25:23.:25:23.

English Championship and there was promotion and

:25:24.:25:23.

Englash Championship and if and there was promotion and

:25:24.:25:27.

team finished bottom, where would they be relegated to? In principle,

:25:28.:25:29.

team finished bottom, where would I can't ask you to speak for all

:25:30.:25:31.

England rugby fans but I can't ask you to speak for all

:25:32.:25:37.

fans want Welsh sides in an expanded Premiership? From an English

:25:38.:25:39.

fans want Welsh sides in an expanded perspective it is nice to play the

:25:40.:25:40.

Welsh teams but how often do perspective it is nice to play the

:25:41.:25:45.

organisation? Irish perspective it is nice to play the

:25:46.:25:49.

audience, I will not mention perspective it is nice to play the

:25:50.:25:51.

Sorensen is yesterday. Don't worry, perspective it is nice to play the

:25:52.:25:51.

that would be very cruel. -- that would be vepy cruel. --

:25:52.:25:56.

Saracens. If you look at that would be vepy cruel. --

:25:57.:25:59.

Munster, Munster, if you that would be vepy cruel. --

:26:00.:26:00.

Munsder, Lunster, if you do you that would be vepy cruel. --

:26:01.:26:01.

Munster, Munster, if you do you feel Mulsder, Lunster, af you do you feel

:26:02.:26:01.

you are being abandoned? You have Mulsder, Lunster, af you do you feel

:26:02.:26:04.

arguably been the most consistent at arguably `een thd most bonsistent at

:26:05.:26:07.

club or regional level and you could be left out in the cold? I would

:26:08.:26:11.

club or regional level and you could feel we are being abandoned but I

:26:12.:26:12.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I also think

:26:13.:26:15.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I also thinj from the

:26:16.:26:15.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I also think from the Welsh point of

:26:16.:26:16.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I view it would

:26:17.:26:16.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I viaw it would be dangerous

:26:17.:26:17.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I view it would be dangerous for

:26:18.:26:17.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I to go into an Enflash league.

:26:18.:26:20.

feal we ape beinf abandnned but I to go into an English league. In

:26:21.:26:21.

to go into an Enflash league. Hn what way? For the reasons that have

:26:22.:26:23.

what way? For thd reasons that have been stated from

:26:24.:26:25.

what way? For thd reasons that have bean stated from t`e

:26:26.:26:26.

what way? For thd reasons that have been stated from the member from

:26:27.:26:26.

what way? For thd reasons that have Bath. I can't see the English

:26:27.:26:28.

what way? For thd reasons that have going to allow a lead way you are

:26:29.:26:30.

not going to allow a lead way you are

:26:31.:26:30.

nop going going to allow a lead way you are

:26:31.:26:31.

not going to be relegated and if you going to allow a lead way you are

:26:32.:26:32.

get relegated, where are going to allow a lead way you are

:26:33.:26:34.

You are not going to get going to allow a lead way you are

:26:35.:26:35.

You are not goinf to get the going to allow a lead way you are

:26:36.:26:35.

You are not going to get the same going to allow a lead way you are

:26:36.:26:35.

money if you are paying in going to allow a lead way you are

:26:36.:26:39.

moleq if yoe are paying in a seconD going to allow a lead way you are

:26:40.:26:40.

competition and also the English going to allow a lead way you are

:26:41.:26:41.

clubs are going to have more money going to allow a lead way you are

:26:42.:26:42.

than Welsh regions. That is going to allow a lead way you are

:26:43.:26:45.

going to be the case. The team seems going to `e the base. The team seems

:26:46.:26:47.

to be who should control the club going to `e the base. The team seems

:26:48.:26:49.

game, the unions going to `e the base. The team seems

:26:50.:26:51.

clubs of the going to `e the base. The team seems

:26:52.:26:53.

clubc of the reghons who drIve going to `e the base. The team seems

:26:54.:26:53.

clubs of the regions who drive it, going to `e the base. The team seems

:26:54.:26:54.

we have mentioned there was the we have mdndioned there was thd

:26:55.:26:57.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that came

:26:58.:26:57.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that caie out

:26:58.:26:58.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that came out a couple of years ago, very

:26:59.:27:00.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that critical of the way the regions had

:27:01.:27:01.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that run. Mark Davis, Gareth was not at

:27:02.:27:06.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that the Dragons when

:27:07.:27:07.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that the Dragols when it happens,

:27:08.:27:08.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that the Dragons when it happens, Mark,

:27:09.:27:09.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that you gere BEO

:27:10.:27:09.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that you were CEO of the

:27:10.:27:10.

Price Waterhouse Coopers report that report was commissioned. When it

:27:11.:27:12.

repobt war commissaoned. When ht came out as

:27:13.:27:13.

repobt war commissaoned. When ht caie out as well.

:27:14.:27:13.

repobt war commissaoned. When ht came out as well. You could argue

:27:14.:27:14.

repobt war commissaoned. When ht the regions have

:27:15.:27:14.

repobt war commissaoned. When ht the begiols have had

:27:15.:27:15.

repobt war commissaoned. When ht the regions have had their chance to

:27:16.:27:18.

make their success. They haven't done it. Why should

:27:19.:27:20.

make their success. They haven't done it. Vhq should you get

:27:21.:27:20.

make their success. They haven't done it. Why should you get the

:27:21.:27:20.

chance now to drive your revenues done it. Why should you get the

:27:21.:27:25.

and do commercial deals? If you take what the Price Waterhouse

:27:26.:27:26.

and do commercial deals? If you take what the Prace W`terhouse Coopers

:27:27.:27:27.

and do commercial deals? If you take report actually said, Gareth,

:27:28.:27:28.

repobt actually raad, Gareth, ht said that the regions have made

:27:29.:27:30.

mistakes in said that the regions have made

:27:31.:27:30.

mistakes hn the mistakes in the past. It was awful

:27:31.:27:35.

due diligence exercise on every piace

:27:36.:27:35.

due diligence exercise on every piece of financial information from

:27:36.:27:36.

every single region piece of financial information from

:27:37.:27:39.

everq sinfle region over piece of financial information from

:27:40.:27:40.

every single region over a full period of years ,- it

:27:41.:27:42.

every single region over a full period of years -- it was a

:27:43.:27:43.

every single region over a full period of years ,- it was a fall due

:27:44.:27:44.

every single region over a full diligence exercise. It said the

:27:45.:27:45.

every single region over a full regions had taken action to improve

:27:46.:27:48.

regions h`d takel action to improve their management teams, the

:27:49.:27:50.

regions h`d takel action to improve management teams were clearly

:27:51.:27:51.

focuced management teams were clearly

:27:52.:27:51.

focused on commercial activity and management teams were clearly

:27:52.:27:52.

this is gning management teams were clearly

:27:53.:27:54.

this is going back to 2011 financial management teams were clearly

:27:55.:27:56.

year and had clearly improved the cost base of the businesses thdy

:27:57.:27:59.

were operating. You are in an were operatang. Xou are in an

:28:00.:28:02.

effective position to negotiate were operatang. Xou are in an

:28:03.:28:04.

these TV deals and commercial were operatang. Xou are in an

:28:05.:28:06.

contacts yourself? The reality is were operatang. Xou are in an

:28:07.:28:08.

have the regions made mistakes in hate the pegions made mhstakes in

:28:09.:28:09.

the past? Yes, of hate the pegions made mhstakes in

:28:10.:28:12.

the `ast? Yes, od course, hate the pegions made mhstakes in

:28:13.:28:12.

the past? Yes, of course, but do you hate the pegions made mhstakes in

:28:13.:28:15.

know a business that hasn't, practically speaking? It costs you

:28:16.:28:16.

money. Who did it cost practically speaking? It costs you

:28:17.:28:18.

moleq. Whn did it cost loney? The money. Whn did it cost loney? The

:28:19.:28:19.

people in the regions. money. Whn did it cost loney? The

:28:20.:28:21.

people in t`e regions. It money. Whn did it cost loney? The

:28:22.:28:21.

people in the regions. It did not money. Whn did it cost loney? The

:28:22.:28:24.

cost anybody else money. They have changed their management

:28:25.:28:25.

cost anybody else money. They have and are in

:28:26.:28:26.

cost anybody else money. They have an` are il a

:28:27.:28:26.

cost anybody else money. They have and are in a different

:28:27.:28:27.

cost anybody else money. They have today

:28:28.:28:27.

cost anybody else money. They have todaq but

:28:28.:28:27.

cost anybody else money. They have today but at the end of the day they

:28:28.:28:29.

cost anybody else money. They have are independently funded businesses

:28:30.:28:30.

cost anybody else money. They have that need to be in charge of their

:28:31.:28:32.

own that need to be in charge of their

:28:33.:28:32.

owl destily. own destiny.

:28:33.:28:33.

APPLAU E own destiny.

:28:34.:28:35.

Are own destiny.

:28:36.:28:35.

Ara qou absolutely own destiny.

:28:36.:28:38.

Are you absolutely principle against own destiny.

:28:39.:28:41.

the regions being able to negotiate their own TV deals? The

:28:42.:28:42.

the regions being able to negotiate of the game has to follow the

:28:43.:28:45.

the regions being able to negotiate governance of the rugby and if we

:28:46.:28:46.

braac governance of the rugby and if we

:28:47.:28:48.

break away, as has been suggested, and it is only a t`ree-year

:28:49.:28:50.

break away, as has been suggested, and it is only a three-year term

:28:51.:28:50.

an` it is only a t`ree-year term that is on offer from the English

:28:51.:28:52.

that is ol offer from the English clubs to the Welsh clubs, only three

:28:53.:28:54.

years, three years, there after who clubs to the Welsh clubs, only three

:28:55.:28:57.

knows what, is not a way clubs to the Welsh clubs, only three

:28:58.:29:00.

long stem -- long-term stability. clubs to the Welsh clubs, only three

:29:01.:29:02.

The waiter creates Tha gaitep creates sustainability is

:29:03.:29:06.

to work collectively together with tha

:29:07.:29:07.

to work collectively together with the governance of the game and

:29:08.:29:09.

to work collectively together with finances running hand-in-hand. I

:29:10.:29:10.

filances punning hand-in-`and. I think that is no. David

:29:11.:29:14.

filances punning hand-in-`and. I chief executive of the Welsh Rugby

:29:15.:29:15.

filances punning hand-in-`and. I Union when the went regional 2003,

:29:16.:29:18.

filances punning hand-in-`and. I he has been busy, only back in

:29:19.:29:21.

filances punning hand-in-`and. I coqndry a few daxs but

:29:22.:29:22.

filances punning hand-in-`and. I country a few days but a letter

:29:23.:29:22.

coundry a few daxs but ` letter has gone out

:29:23.:29:23.

coundry a few daxs but ` letter has gole out drom

:29:24.:29:23.

coundry a few daxs but ` letter has Union in which

:29:24.:29:26.

coundry a few daxs but ` letter has the current impasse in ten days

:29:27.:29:29.

tha currelt imparse in ten dayr which

:29:30.:29:31.

tha currelt imparse in ten dayr whic` is puate

:29:32.:29:31.

tha currelt imparse in ten dayr which is quite a

:29:32.:29:31.

tha currelt imparse in ten dayr whic` is puate a claim

:29:32.:29:32.

tha currelt imparse in ten dayr which is quite a claim given that we

:29:33.:29:35.

have been at it for two years now. This would be your third bite of the

:29:36.:29:36.

This would be your third bite nf the cherry at it. You have been union

:29:37.:29:39.

charby at id. You `ave been unhon chief executive, regional chief

:29:40.:29:40.

charby at id. You `ave been unhon executive, what makes you think

:29:41.:29:41.

charby at id. You `ave been unhon can step in

:29:42.:29:42.

charby at id. You `ave been unhon cal step hn and

:29:43.:29:42.

charby at id. You `ave been unhon can step in and solve it whether

:29:43.:29:45.

cal ctep hn and rolve it whethdr -- where others have failed and

:29:46.:29:46.

cal ctep hn and rolve it whethdr -- where otherc have failed and in a

:29:47.:29:47.

where others have failed and in a way you leaning up your own mess

:29:48.:29:49.

where others have failed and in a from ten years ago. Is it a mess? Is

:29:50.:29:52.

where others have failed and in a it a mess? Roger went through at the

:29:53.:29:56.

it a mess> Boger went through `t the beginning of party political

:29:57.:29:57.

broadcast wall stop -- broadcart. broadcast will stop -- broadcast. It

:29:58.:30:05.

is not just behind the scenes. I is not jurt behild the rcenes. I

:30:06.:30:07.

want to make the is not jurt behild the rcenes. I

:30:08.:30:10.

regional road became in, regional poad became in, which I

:30:11.:30:14.

bought in, Wales has experienced more success

:30:15.:30:14.

bought in, Wales has experienced mope success thal

:30:15.:30:15.

bought in, Wales has experienced more success than ever in its

:30:16.:30:15.

history bot` more success than ever in its

:30:16.:30:16.

history both on and off the field. history bnt` on `nd off t`e field.

:30:17.:30:17.

When I got to history bnt` on `nd off t`e field.

:30:18.:30:18.

Whan I got do Wales history bnt` on `nd off t`e field.

:30:19.:30:18.

When I got to Wales there history bnt` on `nd off t`e field.

:30:19.:30:18.

Whan I got do Wales there was a deBt history bnt` on `nd off t`e field.

:30:19.:30:21.

of ?75 million. When I left, ?45 of ?'5 millaon. Vhen I left, ?45

:30:22.:30:28.

million. In that time for whatever reason the WRU has sought to pay

:30:29.:30:29.

million. In that time for whatever down that debt faster than

:30:30.:30:31.

million. In that time for whatever needed to and there was absolutely

:30:32.:30:34.

million. In that time for whatever no reason to do that. The

:30:35.:30:35.

million. In that time for whatever relationship between regions and...

:30:36.:30:39.

It is not working. We have a meeting relationship between regions and...

:30:40.:30:43.

on Tuesday. They knew it was coming relationship between regions and...

:30:44.:30:44.

to macro years ago. What has relationship between regions and...

:30:45.:30:48.

happened in the intervening two yearc?

:30:49.:30:48.

happened in the intervening two years? Nothing. In 2011, the regions

:30:49.:30:54.

happened in the intervening two hit the rocks. The Welsh Rugby

:30:55.:30:59.

happened in the intervening two suggested that we commission PWC.

:31:00.:31:02.

suggested t`at we commissaon PWC. They paid for the report. In 2011,

:31:03.:31:05.

Thay paid for thd report. In 2011, we began it. Throughout

:31:06.:31:10.

Thay paid for thd report. In 2011, meetings took place

:31:11.:31:12.

Thay paid for thd report. In 2011, Rugby Union and

:31:13.:31:16.

Thay paid for thd report. In 2011, at a range of models. In June 2012,

:31:17.:31:17.

Thay paid for thd report. In 2011, the English clubs decided to pull

:31:18.:31:19.

away from Europe. In the English clubs decided to pull

:31:20.:31:23.

away from Eerope. An August, the the English clubs decided to pull

:31:24.:31:24.

Wehs` Rug`y Union suggested the English clubs decided to pull

:31:25.:31:25.

Welsh Rugby Union suggested a way forward

:31:26.:31:25.

Welsh Rugby Union suggested a way fopward wit` the regions and

:31:26.:31:26.

Welsh Rugby Union suggested a way forward with the regions and that

:31:27.:31:27.

fopward wit` the regionr and that and take place. Then there was a

:31:28.:31:31.

an` take place. Then thdre was a hiatus and we picked it up once

:31:32.:31:33.

hiates and ge picked it up once more. Further suggestions were put

:31:34.:31:34.

forward and discussions took case. forward ald discussions took case.

:31:35.:31:38.

On July the 1st of last year, forward ald discussions took case.

:31:39.:31:41.

regions could have told us that they didn't wish to sign the PA. The WRU

:31:42.:31:46.

regions could have told us that they did not set a deadline of

:31:47.:31:47.

regions could have told us that they the ?1st.

:31:48.:31:47.

regions could have told us that they the 31st. That was a date agreed by

:31:48.:31:50.

the ?1st. T`at was a date agreed by both parties in 2009 and we

:31:51.:31:54.

the ?1st. T`at was a date agreed by suggested that December the 31st was

:31:55.:31:55.

too late but the regions wanted too late `ud the regionr wanted that

:31:56.:31:57.

date so we `onouped it. too late `ud the regionr wanted that

:31:58.:32:00.

date so we honoured it. The too late `ud the regionr wanted that

:32:01.:32:01.

signed up to a too late `ud the regionr wanted that

:32:02.:32:06.

and dhe olly people who too late `ud the regionr wanted that

:32:07.:32:06.

and the only people who could break that where the regaons.

:32:07.:32:09.

that where the regions. Roger. I want to

:32:10.:32:13.

that where the regions. Rogeb. I want to come b`cc to David

:32:14.:32:14.

that where the regions. as well. Juct halg

:32:15.:32:15.

that where the regions. as well. Just hang on a second.

:32:16.:32:16.

that where the regions. your previous guise, when you were

:32:17.:32:20.

Chief Executive of the regions, you your previous guise, when you were

:32:21.:32:23.

hardly used the language of peace your previous guise, when you were

:32:24.:32:25.

and conciliation. What makes you your previous guise, when you were

:32:26.:32:27.

think you will come in and solve it?

:32:28.:32:31.

In actual fact, we have got an agreement with the union

:32:32.:32:34.

In actual fact, we have got an starded ten

:32:35.:32:34.

In actual fact, we have got an started ten years. Let me go back

:32:35.:32:37.

starded ten years. Let le go b`ck to this PWC report.

:32:38.:32:39.

this P C pe`ort. I just want to... David, David...

:32:40.:32:43.

this P C pe`ort. I huct want to... David, David... I

:32:44.:32:44.

this P C pe`ort. just want to stick to the point. I

:32:45.:32:46.

this P C pe`ort. want to come back to the point

:32:47.:32:50.

this P C pe`ort. view... I'm not going to let

:32:51.:32:51.

this P C pe`ort. talk over the top of me. I'm going

:32:52.:32:53.

to talk about the point of you talk over the top of me. I'm going

:32:54.:32:55.

coming back from New Zealand. You coiing babk from New Zealand. You

:32:56.:32:56.

say you can solve it. say qou can solvd at. Why you?

:32:57.:33:00.

Because I got more knowledge say qou can solvd at. Why you?

:33:01.:33:02.

just about everybody in this say qou can solvd at. Why you?

:33:03.:33:03.

just about everybody in t`is room say qou can solvd at. Why you?

:33:04.:33:04.

just about everybody in this room on inpebnational

:33:05.:33:04.

just about everybody in this room on international rugby.

:33:05.:33:07.

inpebnational rufbq. More knowledge than a former Wales

:33:08.:33:08.

inpebnational rufbq. and Lions fly half? I've got more

:33:09.:33:11.

adiinistratave and Lions fly half? I've got more

:33:12.:33:11.

administrative klowledge and Lions fly half? I've got more

:33:12.:33:14.

He is a good friend of mine. and Lions fly half? I've got more

:33:15.:33:16.

know what I do have more on edge -- and Lions fly half? I've got more

:33:17.:33:21.

more knowledge about? Central contbactilg.

:33:22.:33:22.

more knowledge about? Central contracting. Guess

:33:23.:33:25.

coltbactilg. uess what, at New Zealand Rugby union, we brought it

:33:26.:33:27.

Zealand Rtgby unhon, we brought it in and you cannot have a central

:33:28.:33:30.

Zealand Rtgby unhon, we brought it contracting half baked with only six

:33:31.:33:31.

players. It will not work. We contracting half baked with only six

:33:32.:33:36.

have time to run through the outs.

:33:37.:33:39.

You are now canvassing outs.

:33:40.:33:43.

need to clubs to back you outs.

:33:44.:33:45.

need to clubs to back ynu to stand outs.

:33:46.:33:45.

for the board. Have outs.

:33:46.:33:46.

fop dhe bnabd. Have you got for the board. Have you got them

:33:47.:33:46.

yep? Yes. for the board. Have you got them

:33:47.:33:49.

yet? Yes. I have got one for the board. Have you got them

:33:50.:33:50.

next to me, for a start. That is not for the board. Have you got them

:33:51.:33:56.

the problem. I have for the board. Have you got them

:33:57.:33:57.

letter to the clubs, that I lepter to t`e clubs, th`t I thnught

:33:58.:34:02.

strongly about, that I have lepter to t`e clubs, th`t I thnught

:34:03.:34:05.

stpongly `bout, that I have come strongly `bout, that I have come

:34:06.:34:06.

back from my country to the weather we have here because I am passionate

:34:07.:34:08.

back from my country to the weather about Welsh rugby. If you want

:34:09.:34:11.

back from my country to the weather central contracts, you

:34:12.:34:12.

back from my country to the weather central condracts, you have to have

:34:13.:34:12.

back from my country to the weather everybody on

:34:13.:34:13.

back from my country to the weather everqbody on them or

:34:14.:34:16.

back from my country to the weather everybody on them or nobody. Or

:34:17.:34:16.

back from my country to the weather there is nne other alternative-use

:34:17.:34:17.

there is one other alternative-use it down and work out a joint control

:34:18.:34:20.

it down ald work out a joant control of the players. That is not

:34:21.:34:24.

it down ald work out a joant control happening and it will never happen.

:34:25.:34:26.

it down ald work out a joant control I think I can achieve that because

:34:27.:34:27.

of my knowledge of the whole system of my knowledge nf the vhole sxstem

:34:28.:34:30.

and that is the way I work. of my knowledge nf the vhole sxstem

:34:31.:34:31.

an` that is the waq I work. You and dhat hs the vaq worc. You have

:34:32.:34:31.

made your point. Is and dhat hs the vaq worc. You have

:34:32.:34:38.

leadership problem here? Ara

:34:39.:34:38.

leadership problem here? Are you happy with the way that you

:34:39.:34:39.

leadership problem here? have led the negotiations?

:34:40.:34:42.

leadership problem here? We have behaved in the best

:34:43.:34:43.

leadership problem here? interests of all of Welsh

:34:44.:34:46.

leadership problem here? Union and that is what I said

:34:47.:34:47.

leadership problem here? Union and t`at is what I said at

:34:48.:34:47.

leadership problem here? Union and that is what I said at the

:34:48.:34:48.

leadership problem here? start.

:34:49.:34:48.

leadership problem here? stard. We can

:34:49.:34:53.

leadership problem here? with the has created. If you look to

:34:54.:34:53.

with the hac created. If qou look to the 320 member clubs and

:34:54.:34:55.

with the hac created. If qou look to the ?20 mdmber clubs and schools

:34:56.:34:55.

with the hac created. If qou look to the 320 member clubs and schools the

:34:56.:34:55.

divisions, look the 320 member clubs and schools the

:34:56.:34:57.

ditisions, look `t Welsh the 320 member clubs and schools the

:34:58.:34:57.

divisions, look at Welsh rugby. What the 320 member clubs and schools the

:34:58.:34:59.

we have done has been great. We are the 320 member clubs and schools the

:35:00.:35:02.

the only European country which has the 320 member clubs and schools the

:35:03.:35:03.

this uncertainty that is tearing the 320 member clubs and schools the

:35:04.:35:08.

itself apart. Can the regions say thay

:35:09.:35:09.

itself apart. Can the regions say they have conducted themselves well

:35:10.:35:10.

itself apart. Can the regions say and let their cause well?

:35:11.:35:12.

itself apart. Can the regions say I suppose the answer to that is no

:35:13.:35:14.

itself apart. Can the regions say because we are having this debate

:35:15.:35:17.

itself apart. Can the regions say and I think

:35:18.:35:17.

itself apart. Can the regions say an` A thilk that

:35:18.:35:17.

itself apart. Can the regions say and I think that reflects where

:35:18.:35:18.

itself apart. Can the regions say all are, as regions and the WRU. We

:35:19.:35:23.

itself apart. Can the regions say are having

:35:24.:35:23.

itself apart. Can the regions say are `aving a

:35:24.:35:24.

itself apart. Can the regions say are having a public debate about

:35:25.:35:24.

ara havinf a public deb`te about the crisis

:35:25.:35:24.

ara havinf a public deb`te about the crisas withan

:35:25.:35:24.

ara havinf a public deb`te about the crisis within the game and I think

:35:25.:35:26.

it ic crisis within the game and I think

:35:27.:35:26.

it is more than an issue it ic more dhan `n issud between

:35:27.:35:32.

Regional Rugby Wales and the WRU. Leadership do

:35:33.:35:32.

Regional Rugby Wales and the WRU. Leadership to me is not only how

:35:33.:35:35.

Regional Rugby Wales and the WRU. many people follow you but how many

:35:36.:35:38.

people read. There are leadership many people follow you but how many

:35:39.:35:41.

rolec in many people follow you but how many

:35:42.:35:41.

roles in many many people follow you but how many

:35:42.:35:42.

rolec in many sort of areas many people follow you but how many

:35:43.:35:42.

roles in many sort of areas within many people follow you but how many

:35:43.:35:45.

the game, which I think reflects what PWC are saying.

:35:46.:35:48.

the game, which I think reflects what PWC `re saying. Thd

:35:49.:35:48.

the game, which I think reflects what PWC are saying. The only

:35:49.:35:48.

sohudion to what PWC are saying. The only

:35:49.:35:53.

collaboration and that has to be what PWC are saying. The only

:35:54.:35:56.

collaboration, not the master, servant relationship.

:35:57.:36:00.

collaboration, not the master, When it comes down to it, there is a

:36:01.:36:02.

deadline the regions set to the end When it comes down to it, there is a

:36:03.:36:07.

of January for the answer or you wihl

:36:08.:36:07.

of January for the answer or you will pursue these of

:36:08.:36:07.

of January for the answer or you wihl pursue thesd of accommodation

:36:08.:36:08.

will pursue these of accommodation oppions.

:36:09.:36:10.

will pursue these of accommodation options. On the first or 2nd of

:36:11.:36:12.

will pursue these of accommodation February, will you walk? Are you

:36:13.:36:14.

will pursue these of accommodation if there is no agreement? The sun

:36:15.:36:16.

if there hs no afreement? The run will still rise and life will still

:36:17.:36:19.

go on. It is important to set will still rise and life will still

:36:20.:36:22.

deadlines and that is why it will still rise and life will still

:36:23.:36:27.

been done, to focus minds. We have to concentrate on getting

:36:28.:36:29.

sponsorship, getting season tickets to concentrate on getting

:36:30.:36:32.

at... So it is an option? We have to at... o ht is al option? We h`ve to

:36:33.:36:36.

do something. We are we are responsible as businesses. I

:36:37.:36:42.

think that is the difference with think that as thd difference with

:36:43.:36:43.

the Heineken disputes in 1998 and think that as thd difference with

:36:44.:36:46.

2006. It was France and the think that as thd difference with

:36:47.:36:49.

2006. It wac Fralce and t`e FF think that as thd difference with

:36:50.:36:49.

who gave notice before. This time think that as thd difference with

:36:50.:36:54.

they haven't gone into the thay havel'd gond anto the

:36:55.:36:55.

conference chamber naked. colference chambdr naked. English

:36:56.:36:56.

clubs have a colference chambdr naked. English

:36:57.:36:57.

clubc have a BT colference chambdr naked. English

:36:58.:36:59.

clubs have a BT deal and the Welsh colference chambdr naked. English

:37:00.:37:00.

regions are tied with English colference chambdr naked. English

:37:01.:37:01.

clubs. It gives them a stronger colference chambdr naked. English

:37:02.:37:04.

negotiating deal. The rich negotiatilg deal, The ric` clubs

:37:05.:37:06.

don't want an Anglo-Welsh league negotiatilg deal, The ric` clubs

:37:07.:37:09.

it is a fallback position and it is negotiatilg deal, The ric` clubs

:37:10.:37:11.

better than negotiatilg deal, The ric` clubs

:37:12.:37:11.

bepter than what negotiatilg deal, The ric` clubs

:37:12.:37:12.

better than what is on the table. This could end up in the

:37:13.:37:16.

better than what is on the table. This could end up an thd courts. WE

:37:17.:37:17.

This could end up in the courts. We ara boined by

:37:18.:37:17.

This could end up in the courts. We are joined by a

:37:18.:37:17.

This could end up in the courts. We ara boined by a renior

:37:18.:37:18.

This could end up in the courts. We are joined by a senior member of a

:37:19.:37:18.

law firm. He has previously are joined by a senior member of a

:37:19.:37:21.

represented punter Paul in a case are joined by a senior member of a

:37:22.:37:23.

against the Welsh Rugby Union. are joined by a senior member of a

:37:24.:37:25.

Pontypool. If there was a breakaway Poltypool, Af thdre was a breajaway

:37:26.:37:32.

and the regions went to court, how easy is thad

:37:33.:37:33.

and the regions went to court, how easy is that to win?

:37:34.:37:35.

and the regions went to court, how indeed. It is all down to public

:37:36.:37:37.

indeed. It as all down to public policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:38.:37:42.

could go eidher waq. policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:43.:37:44.

It could `e expensive policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:45.:37:44.

It could be expensive and messy. policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:45.:37:47.

If anyone is to break policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:48.:37:48.

If anyone ic to break avaq policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:49.:37:49.

If anyone is to break away from policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:50.:37:49.

these agreements, they have to policy. Judges like discretion. It

:37:50.:37:52.

with an incredible sense of confadence

:37:53.:37:52.

with an incredible sense of confidence that they are

:37:53.:37:53.

with an incredible sense of lawfully and

:37:54.:37:53.

with an incredible sense of lawfelly and in

:37:54.:37:53.

with an incredible sense of lawfully and in the best interest of

:37:54.:37:54.

rugby. lawfully and in the best interest of

:37:55.:37:57.

In terms of knowing that the lawfully and in the best interest of

:37:58.:37:58.

between the region and lawfully and in the best interest of

:37:59.:38:01.

expiring on December 31, and expibing nn December 31, and ynu

:38:02.:38:05.

have signed the Celtic have signdd the Beltic `re for

:38:06.:38:06.

another three or four years. How can another three or four ydars. How can

:38:07.:38:10.

you signed that, not knowing another three or four ydars. How can

:38:11.:38:18.

on board? The regions

:38:19.:38:18.

on board? Tha begions where

:38:19.:38:19.

on board? The regions where a director

:38:20.:38:19.

on board? Tha begions where a director of the

:38:20.:38:20.

The begiols where a director of the company when these discussions were

:38:21.:38:23.

The begiols where a director of the taking place. They were a director

:38:24.:38:24.

The begiols where a director of the of the European cup, as were the

:38:25.:38:25.

rugby union. All of us behaved in a of the European cup, as were the

:38:26.:38:34.

going to continue. All of us behaved of the European cup, as were the

:38:35.:38:36.

in that manner. Rogeb,

:38:37.:38:37.

in that manner. Roger, we

:38:38.:38:37.

in that manner. Rogeb, we abe talkang

:38:38.:38:38.

in that manner. Roger, we are talking about the

:38:39.:38:38.

in that manner. deadlines at the end of t`e month.

:38:39.:38:41.

deadlines at the end of the month. If the regions consider other

:38:42.:38:42.

oppions If the regions consider other

:38:43.:38:42.

options and go, are these new If the regions consider other

:38:43.:38:48.

still being talked about with Mac -- about?

:38:49.:38:51.

still being talked about with Mac -- The union has never talked

:38:52.:38:52.

still being talked about with Mac -- settang up

:38:53.:38:52.

still being talked about with Mac -- setting up new regions. You have

:38:53.:38:55.

still being talked about with Mac -- settang up new regaons. You have not

:38:56.:38:57.

still being talked about with Mac -- specified which teams will enter the

:38:58.:38:57.

competition? competition?

:38:58.:39:00.

I have not competition?

:39:01.:39:00.

I hafe not had competition?

:39:01.:39:00.

I have not had any private coipetitionc

:39:01.:39:01.

I have not had any private competitions about setting up new

:39:02.:39:04.

I have not had any private regions. The clip qou showed

:39:05.:39:04.

I have not had any private regions. The clip you showed at the

:39:05.:39:05.

top of the programme, you regions. The clip you showed at the

:39:06.:39:09.

it. The first part of that clips that I am committed to making the

:39:10.:39:11.

foqr four regions work.

:39:12.:39:13.

Is an option at your disposal to set four regions work.

:39:14.:39:15.

up new teams? Let's treat this four regions work.

:39:16.:39:20.

the seriousness with deserves. This is Welsh rugby. This is

:39:21.:39:23.

the seriousness with deserves. This is Welsh pugby. Thas is everything

:39:24.:39:23.

the seriousness with deserves. This we have built up

:39:24.:39:24.

the seriousness with deserves. This we have btilt up in

:39:25.:39:24.

the seriousness with deserves. This we have built up in the last 133

:39:25.:39:27.

the seriousness with deserves. This Is it an option? This is the answer,

:39:28.:39:34.

we will continue to work until we gep dhe

:39:35.:39:34.

we will continue to work until we get the right solution that is in

:39:35.:39:35.

the best inderest of get the right solution that is in

:39:36.:39:37.

the best interest of Welsh rugby. We the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:38.:39:38.

are not going to play media games on the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:39.:39:40.

deadlines because the WRU the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:41.:39:41.

deadlines becausd the WRU did the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:42.:39:42.

deadlines because the WRU did not the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:43.:39:42.

set a deadline of December the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:43.:39:44.

sep a deadlane od December 31 the best hnderest of Wels` rugby. We

:39:45.:39:44.

set a deadline of December 31 and the WRU will not set a deadline of

:39:45.:39:47.

set a deadline of December 31 and January

:39:48.:39:47.

set a deadline of December 31 and Jaluary 31.

:39:48.:39:49.

set a deadline of December 31 and January 31. We will continue to work

:39:50.:39:51.

set a deadline of December 31 and for what

:39:52.:39:51.

set a deadline of December 31 and for ghat is

:39:52.:39:51.

set a deadline of December 31 and for what is best

:39:52.:39:51.

set a deadline of December 31 and for ghat is best for

:39:52.:39:52.

set a deadline of December 31 and for what is best for the game in

:39:53.:39:54.

set a deadline of December 31 and I am still not clear that it is an

:39:55.:39:57.

I am still not clear th`t it is an option, if these guys walk, you have

:39:58.:39:58.

oppion, id dhese guys walc, you have a right to set up a new and

:39:59.:40:02.

oppion, id dhese guys walc, you have The question is whether these guys

:40:03.:40:08.

will walk got -- these guys will walk?

:40:09.:40:11.

I will continue to work... I will coltanue to work... Likd a

:40:12.:40:17.

politician! It is a I will coltanue to work... Likd a

:40:18.:40:22.

question! It is not about getting stuck in a

:40:23.:40:24.

question! corner. The real question is where

:40:25.:40:26.

question! will the

:40:27.:40:27.

question! wihl the pegions

:40:28.:40:28.

question! will the regions go?

:40:29.:40:31.

question! They have said this is an option so

:40:32.:40:33.

question! if they do, is it an option for

:40:34.:40:34.

yoq? if they do, is it an option for

:40:35.:40:35.

you? Yes or no? if they do, is it an option for

:40:36.:40:38.

With respect, if they do, is it an option for

:40:39.:40:39.

With respecd, wh`t if they do, is it an option for

:40:40.:40:39.

With respect, what is the option? if they do, is it an option for

:40:40.:40:40.

Where are they going to. They if they do, is it an option for

:40:41.:40:43.

Where are t`ey going to. They have a Where are they going to. They have a

:40:44.:40:43.

popential Where are they going to. They have a

:40:44.:40:44.

potential of a champions cup, Where are they going to. They have a

:40:45.:40:46.

perhaps the option of an pephaps the option of an Anglo-Welsh

:40:47.:40:50.

league. If they do that, do you have tha right

:40:51.:40:51.

league. If they do that, do you have the right to set up new teams?

:40:52.:40:52.

league. If they do that, do you have tha right to set up new teams? The

:40:53.:40:52.

the right to set up new teams? The Rugbq Football

:40:53.:40:53.

the right to set up new teams? The Rugby Football Union will not allow

:40:54.:40:56.

tha Rugby Football Union will not allow

:40:57.:40:56.

the Welsh regionr Rugby Football Union will not allow

:40:57.:40:58.

the Welsh regions to join the Aviva premiership.

:40:59.:41:01.

Thay premiership.

:41:02.:41:01.

They have a permit structure. They premiership.

:41:02.:41:03.

have told us. You are wasting time premiership.

:41:04.:41:06.

talking about something that is not premiership.

:41:07.:41:09.

going to ha`pen. Very quickly, chairman of

:41:10.:41:11.

Crosckeys, Very quickly, chairman of

:41:12.:41:16.

Crosskeys. We are talking about the regions walcing

:41:17.:41:16.

Crosskeys. We are talking about the regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:17.:41:17.

poind, where regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:18.:41:17.

point, where would regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:18.:41:18.

poind, where would they walk to? regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:19.:41:19.

point, where would they walk to? We regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:20.:41:23.

played against Moseley and regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:24.:41:23.

played against Moseley `nd we regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:24.:41:24.

Ealing last week, who told us that regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:25.:41:26.

the championship clubs last regions walking away and Roger has a

:41:27.:41:27.

Wednesday had a leeting in Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:28.:41:28.

Birmanghal Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:29.:41:28.

Bipmanghal because of Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:29.:41:28.

Birmingham because of their Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:29.:41:29.

opposition Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:30.:41:30.

oppocitiol do Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:31.:41:30.

opposition to any Welsh inclusion in Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:31.:41:32.

their Wednesday had a meeting in

:41:33.:41:37.

That is a fact. Vhat I vould s`y, and I would like to stress that

:41:38.:41:39.

That is a fact. Vhat I vould s`y, answer to this is the Welsh

:41:40.:41:42.

That is a fact. Vhat I vould s`y, situation lies in

:41:43.:41:42.

That is a fact. Vhat I vould s`y, sipuation lies in Wales. Af

:41:43.:41:43.

That is a fact. Vhat I vould s`y, anybody's that anyone can roll in

:41:44.:41:47.

an` colve oer problems, anybody's that anyone can roll in

:41:48.:41:47.

and solve our problems, it won't anybody's that anyone can roll in

:41:48.:41:50.

happen. The answer is the anybody's that anyone can roll in

:41:51.:41:51.

of the Welsh Rugby Union and the of the Wels` ug`y Union and the

:41:52.:41:54.

guys at the top of the region. I'i

:41:55.:41:55.

guys at the top of the region. I'm not going to receive this. I'm

:41:56.:42:00.

guys at the top of the region. not going to pursue the options.

:42:01.:42:02.

guys at the top of the region. Gareth, if it does come

:42:03.:42:05.

Garedh, if it does come to Anglo-Welsh,

:42:06.:42:07.

Garedh, if it does come to Anglo- elsh, how

:42:08.:42:08.

Garedh, if it does come to Anglo-Welsh, how firm

:42:09.:42:09.

Garedh, if it does come to agreement that he might have with

:42:10.:42:10.

Garedh, if it does come to Englash clubs to go

:42:11.:42:11.

Garedh, if it does come to English clubs to go down that

:42:12.:42:14.

Garedh, if it does come to I think the understanding we

:42:15.:42:15.

I think the undepstanding we h`ve with the endless clubs is quite

:42:16.:42:18.

I think the undepstanding we h`ve solid. That is not underestimating

:42:19.:42:24.

the enormous hurdles of what is in the way. Cross-border etc. I

:42:25.:42:29.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think unfortunately, if that is the case,

:42:30.:42:31.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think it wall

:42:32.:42:32.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think it will be squandering money that

:42:33.:42:34.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think should be going into the game. And

:42:35.:42:37.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think your preferred option is to

:42:38.:42:38.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think Wales?

:42:39.:42:39.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think It is about sustainability because

:42:40.:42:41.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think what other option do

:42:42.:42:42.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think what othep optiol do we have

:42:43.:42:42.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think what other option do we have playing

:42:43.:42:43.

the way. Bross-bnrder etc. I think this much reduced European

:42:44.:42:46.

this much reduced Europdan competition and the Rabo is not

:42:47.:42:49.

this much reduced Europdan going to be the Rabo any more

:42:50.:42:50.

going to `e the Pabo anx more because we don't have a sponsor. The

:42:51.:42:53.

going to `e the Pabo anx more Italians are almost

:42:54.:42:54.

going to `e the Pabo anx more to pull out.

:42:55.:42:56.

So is youp to pull out.

:42:57.:42:58.

So is your preferred option to stay So ic youp `refepred option to stay

:42:59.:42:59.

in Wales? I would love to see a So ic youp `refepred option to stay

:43:00.:43:03.

solution in Wales but So ic youp `refepred option to stay

:43:04.:43:04.

sohudion hn Wales but ar Roger said, solution in Wales but as Roger said,

:43:05.:43:04.

I think we need to look at I phank we need to look at the

:43:05.:43:07.

European competition, which I think I phank we need to look at the

:43:08.:43:09.

is meaningful and ticks boxes from a is meaninffel and ticks boxes from a

:43:10.:43:10.

quality playing point of is meaninffel and ticks boxes from a

:43:11.:43:13.

qualaty plaqing poant of view is meaninffel and ticks boxes from a

:43:14.:43:13.

quality playing point of view and revenue point of view. We commit

:43:14.:43:15.

quality playing point of view and ourselves to the domestic league. We

:43:16.:43:18.

have to start to wrap up. Have you ourselves to the domestic league. We

:43:19.:43:21.

heard anythang ourselves to the domestic league. We

:43:22.:43:21.

heard anything over the past 40 ourselves to the domestic league. We

:43:22.:43:22.

minutes or so that ourselves to the domestic league. We

:43:23.:43:24.

miludes op co th`t suggdsts ourselves to the domestic league. We

:43:25.:43:24.

minutes or so that suggests to do that a deal is close with Mac no. -

:43:25.:43:28.

minutes or so that suggests to do is close? No. The answer

:43:29.:43:36.

minutes or so that suggests to do Europe. Roger needs to get his union

:43:37.:43:37.

friends to talk to clubs, friends to dalk to clubr, English

:43:38.:43:38.

and French. The test game is maxed friends to dalk to clubr, English

:43:39.:43:41.

out financially. There is ample oup finanbially. T`ere hs ample room

:43:42.:43:43.

for growth within the European cup oup finanbially. T`ere hs ample room

:43:44.:43:45.

game. Different oup finanbially. T`ere hs ample room

:43:46.:43:47.

gaie. Difderent blubs oup finanbially. T`ere hs ample room

:43:48.:43:47.

game. Different clubs can follow oup finanbially. T`ere hs ample room

:43:48.:43:48.

suit. That would work for the benefit for all `nd it hs about

:43:49.:43:53.

growing the game in all six growang the game in all sax

:43:54.:43:54.

Martin, if we can have green Maptan, if ge cal `ave freen

:43:55.:43:59.

scenarios? -- green scenarios? Maptan, if ge cal `ave freen

:44:00.:44:04.

Deadlines are fatal. We will Maptan, if ge cal `ave freen

:44:05.:44:08.

and it is such a Maptan, if ge cal `ave freen

:44:09.:44:10.

an` it is such a great fame in Wales and it is such a great game in Wales

:44:11.:44:11.

that you have to solve it. What is your dream outcome? My

:44:12.:44:17.

that you have to solve it. oupcome is

:44:18.:44:17.

that you have to solve it. outcome is he sustainability --

:44:18.:44:21.

outcome is `e surtainabhlaty -- future sustainability and success of

:44:22.:44:22.

futube surtainabhlaty and success of the game. It is critical we maintain

:44:23.:44:25.

the game. Id is bratical we mahntain Welsh rugby but we need to develop

:44:26.:44:29.

the regions and as a semipro leagee.

:44:30.:44:32.

the regions and as a semipro league. Where does that or start?

:44:33.:44:33.

leagee. Whebe does that or start? The community. Roger Lewis. It is

:44:34.:44:40.

leagee. Whebe does that or start? working from division one to seven.

:44:41.:44:44.

workang fpom divhsaon one to sdven. It is all about looking for

:44:45.:44:47.

solutions and working together It is all about looking for

:44:48.:44:50.

that is hnw we that is how we achieve greatness,

:44:51.:44:51.

whic` that is how we achieve greatness,

:44:52.:44:51.

which we have already achieved in whic` we hafe alpeady abhaeved in

:44:52.:44:56.

Wales over the last nine years and continue that

:44:57.:44:58.

Wales over the last nine years and is in a good place and will be in a

:44:59.:45:00.

Wales over the last nine years and good place through us

:45:01.:45:01.

good place dhroufh us worcing together collaboratively to address

:45:02.:45:02.

togedher bollabopatively to address these

:45:03.:45:05.

togedher bollabopatively to address That is all we have time for. In a

:45:06.:45:08.

That is all we h`ve timd for. Hn a fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:09.:45:10.

when Wales begin the defence of fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:11.:45:11.

their Six Nations title. There is fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:12.:45:14.

specaal ppogramme next Runday fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:15.:45:15.

evening on ccrum five. fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:16.:45:18.

evening on scrum five. Further fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:19.:45:19.

ofd field problems fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:20.:45:20.

off field problems are sorted by fortnight Welsh rugby will be united

:45:21.:45:21.

time Wales take the field against tiie Wales dake the field against

:45:22.:45:23.

Italy remains to be seen but from Italy rem`ins to be seen but from

:45:24.:45:24.

me, the panel and the rest of the Italy rem`ins to be seen but from

:45:25.:45:27.

team, have a great

:45:28.:45:30.

The Welsh Rugby Union and its professional regions are locked in dispute over money and control of the game. With time running out for a decision, Gareth Lewis hosts a special debate on the uncertain future facing players, fans and those running the game.


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