Episode 8 The Clare Balding Show

Thank you very much. Welcome to The Clare Balding Show. The programme is

a celebration of the odd shaped ball. We have four powerhouses from

The Games of rugby league Rugby union, who have had a illustrious

careers. Joining us tonight, one of the greatest players in rug league

history and in 2015 skippered his side to an historic treble, Leeds

Rhinos captain, Kevin centrefield. ??CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

She is the most celebrated female player and she has consecutive Grand

Slams and a World Cup win, it is Maggie Alf Ramsey.

He is Wales' all-time leading try scorer and was named the best rug

the union player in the world. We have only got Shane Williams. He has

won every trophy possible at club and international level, including

the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Our line-up is completed by Lawrence

Dallaglio. My guests tonight are amongst the

greatest players of the modern era. Four players from the world of rugby

who have earned accolade legend. Built like a brick outhouse,

Lawrence Dallaglio was a key player in the England 2003 World Cup team

and lead his team, Wasps to club titles, three domestic cups and

European trophies. Shane Williams is Wales' record try scorer with 58

tries. And was crowned the world Player of the Year. Kevin

centrefield captained leads to seven Super League titles, three World

Club Challenge rings and two challenge cups. Never one to sit on

his laurels, he sat on his -- switched codes. Maggie Alphonsi

inspired her team to a record-breaking seven consecutive

world nations victories. They are all greats. Welcome Lawrence

Dallaglio, Shane Williams, Kevin centrefield and Maggie Alphonsi.

Welcome all. It seems perfect timing to have a Rugby special. It is hard

to know with all of your achievements, knowing where to

start. Kevin, it was early on you started playing rugby league. There

is a picture of you here, and we can tell which one. Second from the

left, it has got to be, hasn't it? I will look stupid if I am wrong now.

You are right, long time. What happened to the other three, do you

know? I am in touch with two of them. The guide on the left was best

man at my wedding. As a kid you have no idea, you have big dreams but you

have no idea you will have the career you have had? No, I sit and

pinch myself. To turn professional was huge and I was fortunate enough

to play at Wembley in 1992 in the curtain raiser. I couldn't believe

you could play rugby for a living and for it to be a job. From that

moment, the flame was lit and I wanted to do it for a job. There was

a strong culture around you in Oldham. Maggie, was anybody playing?

No, not really. I grew up in north London on a council estate near

Tottenham and Arsenal. So basically, people loved football. I fell into

it through my PE teacher. She came to school with a black eye and

bruises and I asked what sport she did. She said Rugby union. I went

down to my local rugby club and loved it. She came in with a black

eye and bruises and you said, you want to try that? You can be

physically aggressive and not get in trouble for it, so I flourished in

it. You did overcome something. Doctors early on but you wouldn't be

able to do any sport? I was born with a disability called club foot,

where it is one of both your feet turn all the way in. My right foot

turned all the way in. My had it operated on. I have managed to

represent my country. It has been challenging along the way and I have

been fortunate to learn how to look after it and be the best athlete I

can be. Lawrence, you have won everything, including the World Cup,

but you couldn't get in the school first team? How good was everybody

else? They had a very good side, clearly. I didn't play for the first

team and I always felt I had a point to prove after that. All the guys I

played with, at school in the second 15 all read me about that now. You

are not the only one, because shame you didn't play for the first team

at school? I started on pretence of school, I was quite small back then,

believe it or not? I struggle to get in the first team. I loved rug be, I

was from a Welsh rugby village and lived and breathed it. I was in

particular good, I was pretty small. I am 23 there. I struggled to get in

the first team, but at the time it didn't rather me. I enjoyed playing

soccer and a bit of tennis. My main sport in school was gymnastics. I

did it for six years at a high level and represented the county. I never

thought I would be good enough, or that standard, I just did it cause I

enjoyed it. Shame, this is you scoring a try against France in the

2010 Six Nations. Defeat for Wales now, the ball was knocked on. Shane

Williams is in! It was a magnificent landmark that

you are achieving, but you didn't want to celebrate the cos he wanted

to win the match and there wasn't much time left? I left it a bit

later with about 20 seconds on the clock and the French kicked it out

after that and we lost the game. You are great team players, but you have

earned individual accolades and Maggie you won the Sunday Times

sportswoman of the year award in 2010? Beating? Jessica Ennis-Hill.

APPLAUSE You also became the first woman to

win a writer's award, beating? Richard McCaw. I was the first woman

to win it in 50 years. I don't think any other woman has won it since.

Shame, it in 2008 he won the IRB Player of the Year, so across rugby,

you are the number one, can you remember much about it? It was a

long time ago! I just remember being told I was up for the nomination. I

couldn't believe it. It would have been a roller-coaster of a career

for me, really. When I actually want it, I couldn't believe it. The

equivalent in rugby league is the golden boot. It is traditionally run

by an Australian or New Zealand. You come along and win the golden boot,

did you give a speech, do you remember? No, there was no ceremony,

thankfully. I got off lightly. I got sent the boot. Obviously delighted

to win it, three other Englishmen who have won it in the past, so to

be on the list is special. Talking of trophies, look at the smile on

this man's phase. He is holding the trophy everybody wants, it is the

World Cup. When you have won the World Cup, how long is it till you

have to buy a pint ever again? I don't think Lawrence has ever bought

a pint! We have four or five days there. It was at the beginning of

the season so we have the World Cup will stop Warren Gatland was my

coach, coaching Wales now. He said, you can have a week of to sober off

and then I want you back for Wasps next week. I was fortunate enough to

be part of the team he went on to win the European cup and the

domestic championship. It was an amazing year. Shane, when you win a

Grand Slam, which you did with Wales, what response and reception

do you get? Wales goes absolutely mental. After The Games we get

driven out of the stadium and it is like something of Dawn Of The Dead.

Millions of red shirts at the side of the bus. They have been drinking

all day in Cardiff and it is just complete euphoria. I have been part

of that and it is incredible. No one can take it away from you, those

moments. Lawrence, you always had a huge support from your mum. When you

started for the first time for England, she had strong views, what

was it? We had lost to South Africa. She did not know much about rugby,

but she had learned supporting me. She was waiting in the restaurant

for the debrief. This is what you did well, what you didn't do so

well. The England coach will last and we have all had moments where

your parents embarrass you. She said, I want a word with him. I

said, mum please, don't. She walked up and said, I need a word with you.

He said, sorry, who are you? She said I am the mother of the number

eight he brought on about 20 minutes too late. It is pretty obvious what

you need to do. He just sort of look that and I wanted the ground to

swallow me up. And he said, what do I need to do? And she said you need

to start my son over there. I was picked for the first team the

following week, so it is down to my mother. Your mother wasn't keen and

you doing rugby union to begin with, is she now a supporter? I got into

the sport at an early age and she couldn't understand why a girl would

want to play a physical sport that boys. When I got into it she

appreciated it was a great sport and allowed me to flourish. Now, she is

a huge supporter. She doesn't watch games, because she is worried I will

get injured. So she watches it from the television instead. I have been

very controlled so far, because I am very neutral, I don't have any

favourites, I don't go fan girly over people in sport, apart from

one... Which is him. APPLAUSE

It is incredible what you have done, seven Grand Final wins, three league

leaders Shields. Challenge Cup. You captain Leeds Rhinos to the final in

2015. What would you rank as your greatest achievement? I have at 18

opportunities to win the trouble and to finally get it in your final

season and play your last game at Old Trafford

season and play your last game at people and beat Wigan, our rivals.

This is you lifting the trophy. APPLAUSE

In recognition of your achievements, you became the first rugby league

player to make the short list of sports personality of the year. How

surprised the year with this outpouring of support?

Is very surprised. To be singled out as an individual when you have

played in a team sport for your entire career, it was really odd. To

come in the top three was unreal. How are you finding it now, rugby

union? It's been the challenge I thought it would be. If I have found

it easy I think I would have been disappointed. Have you found it hard

with the tackles? Fly-halves don't tackle! In rugby league, I readily

make 30 tackles a game and in rugby union, as a fly half, it's three or

four. I find it quite funny because in rugby league you make a tackle

and the game stops for a couple of seconds while people regroup and get

ready for the next play. In rugby union you make a tackle and if you

don't get up quick enough you get trampled underfoot pretty quickly!

You can all take a bit of pain can't you? Yeah. But there is one of them

who doesn't choose to have an anaesthetic when they go to the

dentist. Why on earth, Kevin Sinfield, would you do that? I had a

root canal. Don't! Seriously, you did that without anaesthetic? Yeah.

Is it right that your dentist at Leeds Rhinos was like the club

dentist? And he thought that all of the players didn't need anaesthetic,

because you didn't? That's right. And after myself going and not

having it done, the lads who went after me, they nicknamed him the

butcher because they thought that's just how it was done! Lawrence, in

one of your early matches for Wasps, you came up against a guy who was

absolutely one of your heroes, Dean Richards. What did he do to you in

that match? I had hero worshipped him. He had played number eight for

England and was coming to the end of his career. When I first played

rugby union there was a difference between being an 18 or 19-year-old

on a rugby field and being a 35-year-old. I just got caught ball

watching which often happens in rugby union and he punched me

straight on the nose! That was like a hand off in those days, it was

normal! It hurt a lot and my captain at the time, Dean Ryan, said to me,

you're going to have to sort him out, punched him back. I said I

can't punched him, it's Dean Richards! Obviously punching anyone

in the phase is going to affect your look a little bit and there are

certain times in your life when you don't want your luck affected. You

were playing for Ospreys against Cardiff Blues against your mate,

Mike Phillips? Me and Mike are close mates, one of my best mates in

rugby. We were playing a local derby, Ospreys against the Blues and

it was a Friday night game and I was getting married on the Sunday. My

wife was petrified that I was going to play this game. Most of the

players from both teams were actually going to be at the wedding.

On the kick-off I thought right, I only make about two tackles a game

anyway, so I thought I will chase this kick and make this tackle and

then that is one out of the way, only one more to make in 79 minutes.

I chased the kick, Mike Phillips catches it and he is a big lad, I

think I've got to close this lad down quickly and I put him on the

floor and Mike starts talking to me. He goes, "Do me a favour, have this

for your wedding, comes up and punches me flat out on the eye! My

wife went absolutely nuts! After the game we had a drink together and we

were best friends again. That's rugby union for you. Does your wife

speak to him at all? She had to come he was at the wedding! You are all

incredibly strong and pain is something you just business. Very

high pain threshold. Nothing hurts and if it does, you just asked

yourself down. Just to prove that we thought we would come up with a game

that will demonstrate how tough you all are. Here it is. It's an

electric shock game. Unfortunately there are just four handles, so I

can't blame! I will just watch. If you take a handle each, there is a

button on top of the handle. The person who reacts quickest won't get

an electric shock. The other three will. When that button goes green,

pressed the button on top of your handle. I'm quite nervous and I'm

not even doing it. LAUGHTER

How tough are they! Which one didn't get shocked? I don't think I did,

no. You held onto it anyway! APPLAUSE

I just want to see a replay of that. So now we know that Kevin and Shane

and Maggie got dropped. Maggie drops it. Kevin doesn't even flinch!

APPLAUSE Maggie, you returned in 2014 shortly

after winning the World Cup. Instead of saying right, I'm just not doing

sport any more, your first aim was to get to the Olympics as a

shot-putter, wasn't it? Had he done it before? I used to be a

shot-putter and discus thrower before coming into rugby. So it was

something I kind of knew. But doing it after rugby was quite a different

challenge. Most of the women are about 125 kilograms and about six

foot and I wake 75 kilograms and I'm about five foot three, so I could be

there shot but! I enjoy it, I did a year of it but I realised it's just

not the sport for me. That's when the Rugby World Cup came along and I

was a pundit as well. I thoroughly enjoyed that experience. I guess

being in an individual sport when you're used to team sport, that's

difficult as well? Incredibly hard. You're used to going to training and

seeing 15 or 16 people playing the same spot as you. Rugby union there

is a lot of fans. Rugby league, rugby union, banter. Athletics, no

banter whatsoever. I found that incredibly hard. -- there is a lot

of banter will stop Shane, you trained by yourself going to Japan

at the end of your career. How was that? I did a bit of coaching up

there and playing. There are about 500 people in my village and the

next thing you know I'm in the middle of Tokyo, tens of millions of

people. It was completely chalk and cheese. But I loved every second of

it. Shane was a big hit, he was really popular in Japan. When you're

really popular, the fans like to show you how much they love you. No

worries. You want me to sign the shirt?

-- it's OK, buddy. I love that! What's very sweet about that is that

you are obviously really concerned for his health! He looked as though

he was about to have a heart attack! Yacob he got quite excited! I was

filming something for the Rugby World Cup and I could see this guy

on the other side of the road. -- yeah, he got quite excited. There

were these cars flying past and he seemed to sidestep all these cards

and flipped over the last one just to get to meet! I was thinking this

guy was going to get killed on the road! He came over and he was so

excited, it was quite sweet really. The Japanese are very fanatical. You

have to take into account they had just beaten South Africa as well,

two days before this. He had probably been on the pop for two

days. I was enjoying his World Cup. You've all made your mark in various

ways. Lawrence, it would be hard for people to ever get this image out of

their mind once they have seen you like this!

What was that in aid of? Clenching, oh dear... There are a lot of naked

calendar is these days with sports teams. Clive Woodward had the bright

idea we would raise money for charity and he said guys, we're

going to do this, believe it or not for NSPCC, which is a wonderful

charity, he said I have agreed that you will all take your clothes off

for charity! I think Jonny Wilkinson had a passport photo, he was very

uncomfortable taking any of his clothes off! You're right though,

some people are more comfortable with it than others. Look at this

photo and see if you think that Shane is comfortable.

LAUGHTER I think he looks pretty happy there!

He looks like he's just slipped out of the shower and not washed himself

in the process but that's incredible! The things you do for

money! I have actually got a thong on but it is a skin collared thong

and it didn't hide much, to be fair. I actually look to be fair!

Lawrence, life for you could have taken a very different turn because

when you were young and looked like a little cherub, you were a very

good singer, weren't you? I was lucky enough to sing in the west end

musical Evita when I was about 12 years old and I just enjoy the team

environment. We sang on one of Tina Turner's singles as well. But I

think sport was all is going to take precedence. You sang at Andrew Lloyd

Webber's wedding? I bumped into him at a restaurant and said I sang at

your wedding, he said which one! The Tina Turner hit, that got high in

the charts, but Maggie has actually been on a number one record, haven't

you? Yes, after the Rugby World Cup Gareth Malone contacted me and asked

if I would be part of the all-star celebrity choir. We did it for

children in need and the song went to number one, which was brilliant.

It was a great experience. It was like playing another sport, you just

stepped out of your comfort zone and see where you can go with it. Shame,

the stereotypical Welshman can play rugby to an amazing level and sing

beautifully? No, I can't! You really can't sing? I can sing a little bit.

If you can't sing, who is this? Oh guard...

# Flying high on the wings of love # I'm sure there is a bit of auto

June in there somewhere. I'm sure Justin Bieber is really petrified

now! I did that last year as April Fools' Day for a radio station and

the joke was I was going to release a song. I told my Nan I was going to

do a single and she was going up and down the road telling everyone to

listen to this radio station because her grandson would be singing this

song! It was good fun but I can assure you I'm not going to bring a

song or an album out, I promise! Kevin, you like your music, don't

you? Who's your favourite band or what's your favourite song? I know

where you're going with this. So I will take the lead. It was 2000 and

Leeds had made the Challenge Cup final. They were playing at

Murrayfield against Bradford Bulls. Everyone is going out for a warm up

and I'm sat in the stand with the players and the pre-match was Tony

Hadley from Spandau Ballet. Tony finishes his set and just as the

teams are about to enter Murrayfield, he comes and sits next

to me. As what happened at most a beams when the teams walk out for

big finals or big Test matches, the hairs on the back of your neck stand

up, you well up a bit, but I was welling up for other reasons because

I was devastated I wasn't playing. I think he was trying to make me feel

better at the time. He said you all right, what's happening? I think he

felt a bit of pity for me. I said to him, I wish I were playing, I've

been left out during the week. He said, if you think that's bad, I've

lost Spandau Ballet, they're all suing me, I've gone bankrupt and my

wife has left me! I thought actually, things aren't too bad! And

he sang that they are the song Gold. It's not my favourite song but it's

stuck with me ever since. Whenever I've been in a tough situation or

face a bit of adversity, I've used it as a trigger word. It's a

brilliant song, you feel up for a challenge which is a good thing,

because Shane and Lawrence, I'm volunteering you to take part in a

little game. You'll love it, come with me. We've created the perfect

theme park for adults. Laurence and Shane are both attached to a bungee

rope and when I blow my whistle they will sprint to the ball. Initially

speed but then the power kicks in. They should be evenly matched.

Ready? CHEERING

LAUGHTER Lets have a look at that in slow

motion. Oh! CHUCKLES

I love that! Shane, you beat the big guy! Well done. Make sure you join

us next week because we have a very special line-up for you. I will be

joined by Britain's finest, Ricky Hatton. Also here, England and

Manchester City goalkeeper Joe Hart. And the first woman to reach a Grand

Slam semifinal in 23 years for Great Britain, fresh from the Australian

Open, Johanna Konta will be here. A huge thank you to my fantastic

studio guests, Kevin Sinfield, Maggie Alphonsi, Shane Williams and

Lawrence Dallaglio. We will see you next week, good night.

Make the most of your day wherever you are.