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Wednesday is still going ahead. | 0:00:00 | 0:00:01 | |
Now on BBC News, Through the Lens. | 0:00:01 | 0:00:05 | |
Sometimes, history's shaped not over
the course of years or decades, | 0:00:11 | 0:00:15 | |
but in a single day. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:21 | |
I'm Rebecca Jones and I'm
here at the Magnum photo print room | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
in London in this special series
celebrating the 70th anniversary | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
of the agency Magnum photos. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:31 | |
I'm going to introduce
you to some of the world's | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
greatest living photographers. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:39 | |
Coming up, the British photographer
who was in Berlin the night | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
the wall came down. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
The American who captured
the shock and terror of 9/11. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
And the Iranian who wasn't afraid
to show the violence on both sides | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
of the revolution. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
But first, let's meet Ian Berry
he was the only photographer | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
to witness the Sharpeville massacre
in South Africa in 1960. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:05 | |
A turning point for
the anti-apartheid movement. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:11 | |
News came through that the police
had shot a guy in this township, | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
Sharpeville. | 0:01:14 | 0:01:19 | |
I got there and chatted
to the protesters and what have | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
you and they were
all friendly enough. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:24 | |
In fact it all seemed a bit dull. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:31 | |
And I'd more or less given up,
I walked back to the car | 0:01:31 | 0:01:34 | |
and the cops opened fire. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
You can see here that the guy
standing on the tank | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
in the background, standing
on an armoured vehicle, | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
and they started to fire. | 0:01:41 | 0:01:42 | |
And at this point, I saw these kids
running towards me and initially | 0:01:42 | 0:01:46 | |
I thought they were just shooting
blanks or shooting over | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
the head of people. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
And this guy was holding his jacket
up as though to protect | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
himself from bullets. | 0:01:53 | 0:02:00 | |
And only as they started to fall
around me did I realise | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
that they were shooting real bullets
into the back of people. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
70 odd people were dead. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:08 | |
And the police charged
the wounded with an affray. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
And when it came to the court case,
I was the only witness. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
The police said they hadn't
reloaded, and I had pictures of them | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
reloading their automatic weapons. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:18 | |
They said they'd only
fired on the crowd. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
Most of the people
were shot in the back. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:23 | |
As they were running away. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:33 | |
Anyway, the only good thing
was that the wounded, | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
the case was dismissed against them. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:40 | |
In the early days in South Africa
it was very difficult to photograph | 0:02:40 | 0:02:45 | |
the black- white relationships,
because, essentially, | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
there were none. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
I came across this car
and in it was a white child asleep | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
on the back-seat and an African
nanny, a child herself, | 0:02:54 | 0:03:00 | |
had been left to look
after the baby. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
I'd gone there to work and I kind
of accepted in a way, | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
I suppose, subconsciously,
the way of life there. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:12 | |
And that picture started me off
thinking about South Africa | 0:03:12 | 0:03:24 | |
and about the politics and really
set me off on a path of looking | 0:03:24 | 0:03:28 | |
at the country
through different eyes. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
During the election that
brought Mandela to power, | 0:03:30 | 0:03:32 | |
although I shot a load of stuff
on him, somehow this | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
was a bit more symbolic. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:41 | |
He was on his way to a university
to speak, and on the way down, | 0:03:41 | 0:03:45 | |
driving through this town,
I saw this enormous poster of him. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
And people climbing up
on the poster just to wave to him | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
as he went through. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:58 | |
I was on a white beach in Cape Town. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
It's almost unbelievable,
but there were beaches for whites, | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
beaches for Africans,
and you weren't supposed to be | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
an the wrong beach, as it were. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
And I saw this white couple
walking along the beach. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
And a couple of Africans sort
of fooling around in the background. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
And I kind of thought,
wait a second, and if they go past | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
and I get the two together,
there'll be an incident. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
The whites are going to at least
swear at this couple of Africans. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:32 | |
Anyway, the Africans went
by in front and the whites didn't | 0:04:32 | 0:04:35 | |
say a word. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:40 | |
And I kind of realised then
things were changing fast. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
And it was more or less
the end of apartheid. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:55 | |
Ian Berry whose outsider status
enabled him to document sections | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
of South African society
that others could not. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
Insider knowledge, however,
can also give photographs | 0:05:00 | 0:05:08 | |
a particular potency. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:09 | |
Between 1978 and 1980, Abbas
recorded the revolution in Iran. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
In two pictures the Iranian
photographer captured the moment | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
a mob attempted to lynch
a woman in the street. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
You're photographer,
that means you know, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:25 | |
the historian of the present. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
But you're not shooting for history,
your shooting for today. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:32 | |
It's important when the
event is developing. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:34 | |
That's the difference. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
You have history and you have
the history of the present. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
Well, Iran was a genuine revolution,
which means a total | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
change of regime. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
They knew even when it was happening
that only once in my life time, | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
you know, I will be not only
concerned, but I was also involved, | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
at least in the early stages. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:55 | |
The Shah left the country. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:57 | |
Bakhtiar was the Prime Minister. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:02 | |
Khomeini had not arrived yet,
so there was a demonstration | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
in favour of Bakhtiar and,
of course, of the Shah. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:12 | |
Militants gathered around
the stadium and started beating up | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
the people coming out. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Beating them hard. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:24 | |
Suddenly I see this woman running
towards me and being lynched, | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
you know, by the mob. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
And of course, again,
in a time like this you don't think | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
you just shoot. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:33 | |
So I was running back, shooting. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
And somebody would say,
don't take pictures, you know, | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
I would always answer in Farsi, | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
you know, this is for history. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
As a photographer you shoot. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:43 | |
But the problem was,
should I show this picture then? | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
Because in the evening I'd get
together with my friends | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
and they said, Abbas,
you can't show this picture | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
because it shows the dark
side of the revolution. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
I said, I'm sorry, this
might be my country, | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
my people in my revolution,
but I'm also a journalist, | 0:06:56 | 0:06:58 | |
which is a historian of the present,
so we have to show this picture now. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
And in retrospect
I think I was right. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
Because if you look at the faces,
you know, lots of the violence | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
and the hate that would serve
as later on during the revolution | 0:07:08 | 0:07:16 | |
is already rich in their
on the faces of the militants. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
And then the next picture is when,
you know, the army intervenes. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
So the woman fence. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:25 | |
She was carried away, she was saved. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:27 | |
Then of course I hide my camera,
I tried to take a picture | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
on the sly, but then this
soldier saw me and he came, | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
there was a grenade on his gun,
he was pushing it to my face. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
As I was afraid, he let it go,
if he let it go, I wouldn't be here. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:42 | |
To him I didn't say,
this is for history, | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
I just left. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
The day the revolution became
victorious, Khomeini had | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
headquarters in a school. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:52 | |
Around the school lots
of things were happening. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:54 | |
So I'm just around there
and suddenly I see a mullah in a car | 0:07:54 | 0:08:02 | |
with a gun in his hand. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:13 | |
And thought, it really said it all. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:15 | |
People say, OK, you were a prophet. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:17 | |
No, but I wasn't... | 0:08:17 | 0:08:18 | |
Maybe I was a prophet,
but I didn't have any | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
merit, you know. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:27 | |
Having covered the Iranians
revolution for two years, | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
I could see that the wave
of religious passion raised | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
by Khomeini within Iran was not
going to stop at the board of Iran. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
It spread in the Muslim world. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
When it did spread in the Muslim
world, it spread all over the world. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:42 | |
Abbas, a photographer who sees
himself as a journalist, | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
a historian for the present. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:45 | |
Mark Power stumbled upon one
of the defining moments | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
of the 20th century. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
When he was an accidental witness
to the fall of the Berlin Wall. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
The British photographer captured
the joy and confusion of people | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
caught up in that extraordinary
event of November 1989. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:05 | |
Photographs are so powerful
that they become the memories | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
in themselves. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:15 | |
So, you know, my memory of Berlin
that night is these black | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
and white pictures. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:19 | |
So I flew to Berlin on November nine
1989 with my friend George, | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
and we were both really tired,
but I'd never been to Berlin before. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
George had. | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
I said, look, let's go out,
let's go out for a walk. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
So which ambled down
to Checkpoint Charlie. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
There seem to be a few
people milling about. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
So I asked a fellow what was going
on and he said that he'd seen | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
something on the news that there's
strong possibility that the wall | 0:09:40 | 0:09:43 | |
would actually be open
for passage this evening. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
So I looked at George and he looked
at me and we realised we didn't have | 0:09:45 | 0:09:55 | |
much camera equipment with us,
so we got in a taxi and we went back | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
to the youth hostel,
grabbed all our stuff and went | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
straight back to Checkpoint Charlie. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:10 | |
Bang on midnight, the door right
in front of us opened and the first | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
East Berlin came through and gave
George a big bear hug. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
And a succession of very emotional
East Berlins pastors and, | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
you know, waiting
throng in the West. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:21 | |
The pictures to show
a range of emotions. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
There is a fantastic mixture
of jubilation and complete | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
the world and. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:28 | |
The border guards were so bewildered
but at the same time quite excited | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
by what was going on,
they also recognised | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
that they were at a momentous
point in history. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:43 | |
That particular picture really does,
I think, show quite clearly | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
the sense of wonder
they were feeling. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
We have to remember that
when the Berlin Wall fell | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
it was completely unexpected. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:59 | |
When you're jettisoned to a major
news event like that, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:10 | |
it's hard to know how to react,
because let's face it, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
I was there completely by mistake. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
The next day I remember not having
much sleep the night before, | 0:11:17 | 0:11:21 | |
being pretty tired, but walking back
to the wall again and, | 0:11:21 | 0:11:27 | |
amazingly, people were standing
and sitting on the wall. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
It seemed very much a matter
of defiance, what I was looking at, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
it was quite interesting. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
I think in a way more interesting
than the people on the wall | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
are the guards at the bottom,
you know, contrary to everything | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
they've ever been told all believed
in, then suddenly this | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
is all happening in front of them,
what are they supposed | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
to do about it? | 0:11:49 | 0:11:59 | |
It's very rare, isn't it,
to be in a major news event | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
like that, which is actually
a happy thing, you know. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
It's not a tragedy. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:06 | |
Mark Power, the right
person in the right place | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
at the right time. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:16 | |
Remember, you can watch the whole
series at BBC.com/throughthelens. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
Now to China. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:19 | |
And the massacre in Tiananmen Square
in 1989 when the Chinese authorities | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
crushed the popular movement
for democracy in Beijing. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
The former Magnum photos President,
Stuart Franklin, was there. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:45 | |
Coming to the sort of last moments
of the event in Tiananmen Square | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
in June 1989, I was sort of lying
down, squatting down | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
and photographing between the kind
of balustrades of the balcony. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
And as the tanks rolled
through the now cleared crowd, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
a guy, a single guy,
white shirt, black trousers, | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
two shopping bags, one in each hand,
stood in the middle of the road. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:11 | |
As the row of tanks,
the column of tanks, approached. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:13 | |
I felt very distant. | 0:13:13 | 0:13:14 | |
In fact, so distant that I thought
the picture was really of note | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
interest at all particularly. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:19 | |
On the other hand, I was persuaded
by a journalist that this | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
was a significant moment. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:23 | |
It was unusual, you know,
in those days in China | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
for there to be
a mass demonstration. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
In what is still, I think,
the largest public square | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
in the world. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:32 | |
The sort of centre
of the Chinese state. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:36 | |
While I was on the balcony trying
to photograph the tanks coming down | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
the street, actually
where I was keen to be | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
was in the hospital is trying
to understand how many people had | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
been either killed or wounded | 0:13:51 | 0:13:52 | |
the night before. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
At about 2pm some of us managed
to leave the hotel and go | 0:13:56 | 0:13:59 | |
to a couple of hospitals. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:04 | |
You know, the situation
was pretty chaotic, really. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
So what was most noticeable
were the rows of young people | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
from little mattresses
and treated for bullet wounds. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
By being able to get
in there and photograph that, | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
you know, there was real evidence,
material evidence, which is one | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
of the challenges of journalists
actually trying to tell the story | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
of what happened. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:35 | |
I was going to the square pretty
well every day to try and photograph | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
the various demonstrations,
and one day there was an intense | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
summer storm, sort of prophetic
dark clouds appeared. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:49 | |
And then this guy got up on top
of one of the balustrades and, | 0:14:49 | 0:14:53 | |
you know, bore his chest
and put his arms up in the air and, | 0:14:53 | 0:14:58 | |
for me, it was very emotional
and a defining moment. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
I felt good about it,
I felt it expressed, | 0:15:02 | 0:15:04 | |
you know, the emotion behind
the protest movement | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
in China that time. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:07 | |
I think one of the things
that we try to do in news | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
photography is to find an image that
crystallises the event, | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
or the spirit of a series
of events in one image. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
As Stuart Franklin said,
it was by visiting hospitals | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
in Beijing that he discovered
the true extent of the Tiananmen | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
Square massacre. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
But for the New Yorker Susan
Meiselas, there was no need to seek | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
out the story, it came
to her on the morning of September | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
the 11th 2001 when one of the planes
that hit the World Trade Center flew | 0:15:40 | 0:15:44 | |
low over her home. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:51 | |
So much of history has
been shaped by that day. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
Nothing of this scale had
happened in New York. | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
I actually remember hearing
the plane coming very, | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
very low over the part
of Manhattan where I live, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
Little Italy. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:04 | |
Riding my bicycle down,
I've seen a television programme, | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
very unclear what's happened. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:08 | |
I ride my bike down to that area
of New York, I live not that far | 0:16:08 | 0:16:13 | |
away, and it's one of the first
photographs I made, | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
just people looking. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
That photograph is really just
a passer-by making a souvenir | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
photograph of something that at that
moment in time we had no idea | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
what had happened. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
The first plane had gone
into one of the Twin Towers. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
It's this strange photograph for me
that marks that everyone | 0:16:31 | 0:16:35 | |
becomes a photographer. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
This, I think, is very
much of its time. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
It stands for a moment
in time perhaps. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:46 | |
I was probably two blocks
from the tower when it actually, | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
the last real drop of the tower. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
And that led to this massive escape. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:56 | |
So I was standing still and trying
to move closer, as close as I felt | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
I could, as people were
just racing past me. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
And actually I've tried
to reconstruct that photograph, | 0:17:03 | 0:17:06 | |
I tried to find people
who were in that moment of time. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
The photograph of the statue,
which many people didn't realise | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
when they first saw the photograph
was a statue, and I'm not even sure | 0:17:13 | 0:17:17 | |
I did when I made the photograph,
I was focused on the fact | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
that there was all this
what looks like confetti, | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
but were torn up papers
and dust filling the air | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
as the towers came down. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:27 | |
And when I looked at Liberty Plaza
there was this statue which, | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
at the moment, looked
so lifelike, it is life-size. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
Of a man burying himself
in a briefcase that could have been | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
any man at that moment. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:37 | |
We were all kind of not knowing
where our things were, | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
what was happening. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:54 | |
So he kind of personified everyone,
and the anxiety everyone had | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
at that moment. | 0:17:57 | 0:17:58 | |
There is a photograph
of the firefighters. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
So as I start to pull away and just
get some distance on what happened, | 0:18:01 | 0:18:05 | |
along with the West side Highway,
which was completely evacuated, | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
no cars, no people, this group
of firefighters were retreating | 0:18:08 | 0:18:11 | |
and probably just regaining
confidence to go back, | 0:18:11 | 0:18:13 | |
no doubt, and they were washing
their faces on this fire hydrant. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
They had opened it up
and they were just flushing | 0:18:16 | 0:18:23 | |
their faces and their lungs probably
come up with the water. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:28 | |
I was just struck,
they were the real heroes | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
of that day. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:35 | |
This photograph haunts me
in a different way, | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
the skeleton that remained. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:54 | |
That's kind of the last memory
of that day, these two phenomenal | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
towers that every time you flew
into New York you would look out, | 0:18:57 | 0:19:00 | |
you know, the plane,
and see them standing | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
there at the tip of the island,
they were reference points | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
from so many points in the city. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:07 | |
We didn't yet, I mean when I'm
making my photograph, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
no idea how that even was possible. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:12 | |
It was just inconceivable. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:13 | |
So, you know, everyone took away
from that day their own experiences, | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
a combination of what they heard
them what they saw on television, | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
what they saw in books,
and what continues to happen | 0:19:20 | 0:19:22 | |
as a result of that action. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
Susan Meiselas remembering 9/11. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:25 | |
The German photographer
Thomas Dworzak was in Iraq | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
during the American led invasion
of the country in 2003. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:36 | |
He's the president of Magnum photos
and he captured the emotions | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
of Iraqis in the days both before
and after the fall of Baghdad. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
Something makes you a good war
photographer when you're young | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
and eager and crazy. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:49 | |
And when you get older
and you've seen a lot, | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
you get more scared
and you get more... | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
It's not so easy. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:55 | |
I was in Iraq before the war,
it was very controlled, | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
it really didn't feel like a very... | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
Felt like a scary country. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:01 | |
People were afraid
of making a mistake. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
It was like a couple of months
before the war when Saddam suddenly | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
decided for I don't remember
what reason that this was the day | 0:20:07 | 0:20:10 | |
of clemency and all the prisoners
were allowed everybody | 0:20:10 | 0:20:23 | |
was allowed out of prisons. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:24 | |
With criminals in it,
all the political prisoners, | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
everything, just open up the entire
prison, which was this huge, | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
I think at the time the biggest
prison in the Middle East. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
They just ran out. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:34 | |
They didn't escape. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:35 | |
The gates were open
and everybody left. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:39 | |
I think it was surreal because I'd
heard about it so much | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
and because it had this... | 0:20:42 | 0:20:43 | |
I never thought I would
ever get into it. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
We didn't know anything,
anybody if asked, because it | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
was so off-limits. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:52 | |
Right after the fall
of Baghdad there was this, | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
there were tonnes of Saddam statues,
so people went out, they took | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
off their shoes and they stood
there like it was this never ending | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
beating of metal and concrete
statues with shower sandals. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:07 | |
And somebody brought
in sledgehammers, they brought | 0:21:08 | 0:21:09 | |
in the bigger machinery
and blew them into pieces. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
The foundation, and then
they change them... | 0:21:12 | 0:21:14 | |
There was a whole ballet
of all kinds of things you can do | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
with dismantled Saddam statues. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:22 | |
The fall of Saddam was a relief
for people, of course there was no | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
plan, of course it all
went crazy afterwards. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:28 | |
But initially there was this, OK,
now it's over, thank good. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
So there was definitely a mood
of celebration and of course | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
there was a lot of looting
after and mayhem and chaos, | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
but this was right after
when the Americans took over one | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
of the old palaces. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
When the swimming pool
was still there and they have | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
recruited some kids on the street
who were translators, | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
spoke some English. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:50 | |
This is one of them
jumping into the pool. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
This was still a time when Americans
would drive around walk around | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
Baghdad, I think they had body
armour but they had open Humvees, | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
nobody was expecting ideas... | 0:21:59 | 0:22:00 | |
There was still a kind of... | 0:22:00 | 0:22:02 | |
There was this really
post-war relief. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:12 | |
Didn't last. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:23 | |
Thomas Dworzak looking back
on his time in Iraq. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:28 | |
To see the rest of the series,
do go to BBC.com/ThroughTheLens. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:37 |