02/12/2015 BBC News at Six


02/12/2015

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Today at 6pm, we're at Westminster, where Parliament is debating

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the plans for British airstrikes in Syria.

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The Prime Minister said it was no time to sit back and wait.

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The action we propose is legal, it is necessary

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and it is the right thing to do to keep our country safe.

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But those who oppose the strategy say the case has not been made

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and they warn the airstrikes could well make matters even worse.

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It is becoming increasingly clear that the Prime Minister's proposals

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for military action simply do not stack up.

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The claims that thousands of Syrian fighters on the ground are ready to

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join the fight against IS are being questioned.

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And we'll be looking at the state of public opinion in the UK, ahead

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We are damned if we do, we are damned if we don't,

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The head of world athletics, Lord Coe, admits there have been

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failures over doping in the sport - but vows to fix the problem.

:01:18.:01:20.

And the Facebook founder, Mark Zuckerberg, marks the birth

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of his first child with a ?30 billion gift to the world.

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And on Reporting Scotland at 6.30pm: We'll have more on that debate.

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These Typhoons at RAF Lossiemouth could leave for the Middle East

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Scotland gets a new top cop - the former head of Norfolk

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Good evening from Westminster, where Parliament has been debating

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plans for British airstrikes against so-called Islamic State

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MPs will vote on the plans at 10pm tonight.

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The debate was opened by the Prime Minister, who warned that Britain

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couldn't afford to "sit back and wait for an attack here in the UK".

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But Mr Cameron faced persistent criticism from opposition MPs

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after he'd described those against airstrikes as

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Labour's Jeremy Corbyn said the government's plans were

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misguided and could well make matters worse in Syria.

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First this evening, our political editor Laura Kuenssberg reports

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Time to debate and time to decide. The men and women that you sent to

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Westminster prepare to send British waters into action and danger. My

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sense is that... Three weeks ago, the government wasn't even planning

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to ask the question, and it is tense. For the Prime Minister it

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makes no sense not to bomb extremists based in Syria who

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threaten us. For Labour's leader, it makes no sense to start strikes

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which could threaten us more. Even before ten hours of debate, MPs were

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on the verge of saying the time has come. The Prime Minister. There is a

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simple question at the heart of the debate today. We face a fundamental

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threat to our security. Isil have brutally murdered British hostages,

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they have inspired the British -- worst terrorist attack against

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British people since July the 7th on Tunisia. Do we go after these

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terrorists in their heartlands from where they are plotting to kill

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British people or do we sit back and wait for them to attack us? British

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Muslims are appalled by Daesh. These women raping, Muslim murdering,

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medieval monsters are hijacking the religion of Islam. He says that

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troops are ready to take to the ground after bombing but these

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claims are less than perfect. I am not arguing that all of these 70,000

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are ideal partners. Some left the Syrian army because of Assad's

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brutality. A Labour leader, a heroic anti-war campaigners, says the

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government is acting too fast. Public opinion is moving

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increasingly against what I believe to be an ill thought out rush to

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war. He wants to hold this vote before the opinion grows even

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further against him. It is becoming increasingly clear that the Prime

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Minister's proposal for military action simply doesn't stack up. With

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his own MPs divided, at times Mr Corbyn struggled to keep control.

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The government's proposals... But he suggested air strikes in Syria would

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make us less, not more safe. The Prime Minister has avoided spelling

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out the warnings he has surely been given. The likely impact of you wake

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-- UK air strikes on the threat of terrorist attacks in the UK. It is

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critically important that we as a house are honest with the British

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people about the potential consequences of the action the Prime

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Minister is proposing today. While MPs talked, others were on the

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streets, like in Edinburgh, protesting. David Cameron last night

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opposed -- accused MPs are proposing action of being terrorist

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sympathisers. Today he was asked again and again with anger to say

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sorry. I cannot identify a single terrorist sympathiser in that list.

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Will he apologised for his deeply insulting remarks? Mr Cameron caused

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few read by refusing but his argument inside and outside one more

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and more support, even if reluctant, throughout the day. This is a tough

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call. On right, it is right to take action to degrade and defeat this

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death cult. Without the defeat of Daesh there will be no peace. We

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have not chosen this conflict but we can't ignore it. Is a Muslim woman,

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I stand with people of all faiths who applaud these actions. We are

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justified in taking action to destroy them. -- people who abhor

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these actions. British military action brought people back from the

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brink. But lingering doubts might present long-term dilemmas. Instead

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of dodgy dossiers we now have bogus battalions of moderate fighters. I

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am not going to be a party to killing innocent civilians for what

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will simply be a gesture, yes. We should help our allies. We should

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help our allies by destroying Isis, by doing it properly, not by

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symbolism. The result of the vote, the decision MPs will make any few

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hours is never really been in doubt, but the consequences of sending

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British forces in to be sky over Syria is too hard to predict.

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The debate is still going on. Laura, every indication, as you have been

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saying, that the Prime Minister will get his way. What are the

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implications? You can almost cut the tension with a knife but even Labour

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officials were conceding not long after the debate began that the

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government was going to win. Before a single vote has been cast, it has

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changed the political picture. First and most immediately, within the

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next 48 hours, British forces will be involved in attacking another

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country. The Prime Minister will feel emboldened by that because he

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has got what he wanted all along. The Labour leadership, in turn, has

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been put under significant strain by the events of the last few days.

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They have been in turmoil. Those two macro factors will of course dictate

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much of how politics goes on and changes and evolves in the next few

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days, but it is worth casting our minds back. Less than a month ago,

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the very fact of this vote happening seemed impossible. It was on the

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back burner. In the immediate days following the attacks on Paris, it

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fast started to feel inevitable. Inevitable, perhaps, but reluctant.

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MPs are not going into this with some sort of glorious sense. They

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are going into this with a heavy heart.

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As we've heard, the Prime Minister was asked several times to explain

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the Government's estimate that as many as 70,000 Syrian fighters not

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belonging to extremist groups might be counted on to join the fight.

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Mr Cameron has also stressed that the use of airstrikes must be seen

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Our diplomatic correspondent James Robbins has been looking

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at the evolving British strategy in the region.

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For over a year, error -- RAF pilots have been targeting targets in Iraq

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where IS hold substantial territory. Now they are poised for an even more

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complex mission in Syria. These are the planes the RAF has been flying

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in attacks over Iraq and already for use in Syria. They are tornado GR4s.

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Included in their armoury, brimstone missiles. The aircraft could be

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flying from Cyprus and they would be flying over northern Syria, looking

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for IS targets, particularly in and around Raqqa. They would also be

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attacking across all areas controlled by IS, shown in orange.

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The RAF would be joining US and French planes, who are already

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bombing. The coalition has carried out more than 2700 strikes over

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Syria in the last 14 months. On the ground, David Cameron says 70,000

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Syrian opposition fighters capable of retaking territory from IS exist,

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and they control the areas covered in green. They come from different,

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rival rebel groups, as many as 100, and they are spread out throughout

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Syria. Most are a long way from the IS strongholds around Raqqa and many

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are infuriated by Western pressure on them to defeat IS before going

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after their primary enemy, President Assad and his government forces, who

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control the areas in pink. We have to be clear what these troops or

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fighters can and can't achieve. They certainly can't be a coherent army

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or military force which can overthrow the regime of Assad,

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defeat Isis and return Syria to stability. They can defend small

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pockets of the country and translate that to a discussion at a political

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level in which perhaps bash at Al Asad and the opposition can reach a

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compromise. There is another competition. Russia says it has 69

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aircraft attacking Syria in support of President Assad. Although Moscow

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insists it is increasingly hitting IS extremists, Nato's American

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commander today said the vast majority of Russian sorties are

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still targeting moderate groups that the west is relying on.

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During the debate, the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

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insisted that public opinion was moving in his direction, against

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But Mr Corbyn's opponents are still claiming that he is out

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of touch with the view of most people in the UK

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Our home editor Mark Easton has been examining the state

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In Manchester's People's history Museum, a building celebrating

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democracy, a jury of undecided citizens gathered to reflect on the

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case for dropping British bombs on Syria. When our friend and ally

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France has been struck in this way, if not now, when? Go in either

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direction and start writing your words. 16 people, selected to

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reflect the city's diversity, share their hopes and fears on extending

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the military mandate against Islamic State. The initial comments and use

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a word cloud of almost tortured ambivalence. Is it right for Britain

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to join the air strikes on Syria? I really don't know and I suppose that

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is a dilemma everyone has to face. I want to promote peace and love for

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humanity and I think the lives of the innocent people in Syria are

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also as valuable as the lives that have been lost in Paris. We all want

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peace and harmony and love and everything else but where is that

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going to take us? What will we get from that? You almost have to fight

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fire with fire. What choice do we have? I have two macro boys in the

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forces. I have a Marine and a para. They say, Mum, that is what we

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joined up for, that is what we do, and it terrifies me. The thing is,

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so many innocents will suffer, so many. Islamic State, so-called is an

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extreme and merciless enemy... Using BBC news reports to remind them of

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the issues, our jury consider the moral case for air strikes. If this

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happened in Manchester or London, would we expect other countries to

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come to our aid and support? The agreement is, if one is attacks, we

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are all attacked. It was Paris but it could be London. We have got to

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socket -- stop it in its tracks. But it will not be. It will keep going.

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It will not be stopped if we sit on our hands. If something happened in

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this country, like tomorrow, we would have too picked up our worldly

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goods and start marching down the road, how would we feel? If they are

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going to do air strikes, the message is going to become getting votes.

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They are trying to escape it all. We also asked the jury to decide

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whether the military and strategic case for bombing had been made. Air

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strikes by themselves will not make a blind bit of difference. They

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won't make the streets of Britain any safer. If we were to bomb Syria,

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we would probably get bombed back. I think that is as anybody. They don't

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know what country the jet is from. I don't think the threat is any worse

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to ask if we are bombing than if we are not. I think the bombing is too

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indiscriminate. We are bombed -- dammed if we do and bent if we

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don't. Thank you, I think you have demonstrated what a complicated

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issue this is. Like the MPs in London, we are going to ask you to

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vote. Should Britain conduct air strikes against IS in Syria, yes or

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no? Before they came, our 16 citizens said that they were

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undecided. The jury foreman was selected to deliver the final

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verdict. Eight people voted yes and eight people voted no, so the result

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is a tie. Our result echoes opinion polls, the

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UK is deeply divided on whether bombing Syria is the right policy.

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What ball seemed to agree upon is that there are no easy answers.

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In Syria, President Bashar al-Assad has dismissed the significance

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of Western air strikes against so-called Islamic State targets.

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He says the only meaningful intervention has been from Russia,

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which, in his view, has changed the situation on the ground.

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Our chief international correspondent, Lyse Doucet,

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What have people been saying to you there about the prospect of British

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involvement? Well, this vote in the British Parliament didn't get a

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mention in this morning's newspaper in Damascus and it has not been on

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the evening news. There are so many outside players involved in this

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tangled conflict that it barely registers anymore. Everyone I spoke

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to today have said... PROBLEM WITH SOUND

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In the capital, which is under government control, many people said

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the campaign would not succeed unless it was coordinated with

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President al-Assad and the Syrian Army. That is what Russia is doing

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and that is what the West and other Arab states say they won't do, not

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after such long... PROBLEM WITH SOUND

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I'm sorry about the problem with the link there. So far, at least in

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terms of news headlines, the story of this debate in Westminster is

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making very little in terms of impact.

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You can follow the debate that's going on in

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the House of Commons, with analysis and comment from our correspondents

:17:52.:17:52.

We'll have more from Westminster a little later, but for now it's

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Parliament is debating right now whether to support

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The Facebook founder, his wife, and their ?30 billion giveaway.

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And coming up on Reporting Scotland at 6.30:

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We hear from Syrians living in Scotland about their hopes

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and fears for the results of tonight's Commons vote.

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And drivers stuck in jams for hours, as a defect is found in the

:18:36.:18:39.

Now, he leads an organisation criticised over allegations

:18:40.:18:50.

The head of World Athletics, Lord Coe,

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faced MPs today for questions about his role in sorting out the mess.

:18:57.:19:01.

He admitted there had been a failure to tackle doping and said the past

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Our Sports Editor, Dan Roan, reports.

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He may be the country's leading sporting statesman, but after months

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of allegations of cheating and corruption in athletics, Lord Coe

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was today asked to explain himself. The former MP, now IAAF President,

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back in Parliament to answer questions on how track and field

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lost its reputation for fair play. How on earth have we got from a

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sport that was underpinned by that kind of philosophy to the horror

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show that has played out on the global stage in the last few weeks?

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I don't know the answer to that. I will find out. Coe's career took him

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first to Fifa, then to the IAAF, where, after eight years as a

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Vice-President, he replaced Lamine Diack, now under investigation for

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alleged corruption. Your insider in these two organisations, which have

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been bedevilled by allegations of corruption for very many years, and

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you have been very closely involved in both organisations, why in those

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circumstances should we think that you are the person to clean up the

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situation now? Because I have the experience to do that. You didn't

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ask any tough questions in 2007? I had the support of the sport to do

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that. Have there been failures? Yes. Will I fix them? Absolutely. Coe was

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asked about his decision last week to end a paid ambassadorial role

:20:44.:20:48.

with Nike. Would I have got rid of it earlier if I thought the noise

:20:49.:20:52.

would have escalated to the level it did? I probably would have done. One

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of the next big issues facing Coe will concern Russia, currently

:20:58.:21:01.

suspended for state-sponsored doping. For now, he will hope the

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toughest questions are behind him. Dan Roan, BBC News.

:21:06.:21:08.

Police are searching a number of addresses in Luton

:21:09.:21:10.

in Bedfordshire, after four men were arrested in the town

:21:11.:21:11.

Scotland Yard says the operation is part of an

:21:12.:21:16.

investigation focused on the local area, and that it has no connection

:21:17.:21:19.

The arrested men are all in their 30s.

:21:20.:21:26.

A company which bombarded people with millions of nuisance

:21:27.:21:29.

The Government watchdog found that The National Advice Clinic,

:21:30.:21:37.

based in Lancashire, made nearly six million calls between October last

:21:38.:21:41.

A baby girl from Suffolk who died just over

:21:42.:21:47.

an hour after being born has become the country's youngest organ donor.

:21:48.:21:54.

Hope Lee, here on the left with her twin brother,

:21:55.:21:57.

had a rare condition that prevents her skull from developing properly.

:21:58.:22:01.

Hope's kidneys have been transplanted into an adult patient.

:22:02.:22:07.

The founder of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, and his wife,

:22:08.:22:10.

Priscilla Chan, have announced they will, over time, give away 99%

:22:11.:22:14.

of their Facebook shares - to mark the birth of their first child.

:22:15.:22:20.

Those shares are currently worth about ?30 billion.

:22:21.:22:24.

The couple say they're doing it because they want to make

:22:25.:22:26.

the world a better place for their daughter to grow up in.

:22:27.:22:30.

Like many a young couple, Mark and Priscilla took to Facebook

:22:31.:22:36.

to celebrate the birth of their daughter, but they had other news.

:22:37.:22:41.

In a video recorded just weeks before the arrival of Max, the

:22:42.:22:45.

Having this child has made us think about all of the things that should

:22:46.:22:50.

be improved in the world for her whole generation.

:22:51.:22:55.

We need to make sure that there are investments

:22:56.:22:57.

and programmes that ensure that the future isn't going to be like today,

:22:58.:23:03.

In a letter to their daughter, the couple now say that over their

:23:04.:23:07.

lifetimes they'll donate 99% of their Facebook shares, to promote

:23:08.:23:11.

good causes, from better health and education, to greater equality.

:23:12.:23:16.

Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan join other billionaires in giving

:23:17.:23:19.

Bill and Melinda Gates have so far donated over ?21 billion.

:23:20.:23:26.

The businessman Warren Buffett has given ?15 billion.

:23:27.:23:30.

And the investor George Soros has donated ?7 billion

:23:31.:23:32.

Bill and Melinda Gates have been praised for their contribution to

:23:33.:23:38.

eradicating diseases in developing countries, but

:23:39.:23:42.

sometimes donors can find it hard to direct cash where it's needed.

:23:43.:23:46.

It is all too easy to spend money that's aimed to do good

:23:47.:23:50.

on things that don't have an impact, and what I'd encourage them to do is

:23:51.:23:53.

to focus on causes that are really big problems, that are neglected by

:23:54.:23:57.

other funders, so you can really make progress.

:23:58.:24:02.

Right from when he founded Facebook as a 20-year-old student,

:24:03.:24:05.

Mark Zuckerberg has said his mission is to change the way the world

:24:06.:24:08.

Luckily for him, and for the causes he and his wife support,

:24:09.:24:13.

More now from Westminster and the continuing MPs' debate

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about whether to support British air strikes in Syria.

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Welcome back to Westminster, where the debate on British air

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It will end at around 10.00pm tonight

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If Mr Cameron's plans are approved, those strikes could begin

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And the RAF base at Akrotiri in Cyprus will play a key part

:24:42.:24:47.

Our defence correspondent, Jonathan Beale, is there.

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To say something about possible timings within hours of this vote,

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and the likely extent of any action as you see it? As you say, I think

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if there is a Yes vote, we will see the RAF doing its first combat

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sortie over Syria. There is political pressure to show that

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Britain, the RAF, are making a difference. There are few countries

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doing air strikes over Syria. They may have, the Americans,

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pre-selected a target. There will be more jets arriving here, two more

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Tornados to the eight already here, as well as six Typhoon jets. You

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have to remember that is still a relatively modest contribution,

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smaller than the French, much smaller than the Americans. And this

:25:41.:25:44.

will not be shock and awe, it is worth remembering that over Iraq,

:25:45.:25:47.

over the past year, three-quarters of those missions flown by the RAF,

:25:48.:25:53.

they haven't fired any weapons. Many thanks. Jonathan Beale at RAF

:25:54.:25:58.

Akrotiri. Let's have a last word with Laura. Let's talk about the

:25:59.:26:02.

vote, the result. How important do you think is the margin of victory

:26:03.:26:06.

for Mr Cameron if he gets that victory? It does matter, the size of

:26:07.:26:11.

the majority. It may dictate how sticky the support is for action in

:26:12.:26:16.

Syria as and when things become tricky. As and when the plans, such

:26:17.:26:22.

as it is, gets into difficulties, if indeed that is the case. Of course,

:26:23.:26:26.

MPs, who backed it, who publicly back the action, will be more

:26:27.:26:29.

reluctant to withdraw that support and to come out in terms of

:26:30.:26:33.

criticism. Of course, it may dictate some of how the public feels about

:26:34.:26:38.

this. The Government now has calculated that the threat from

:26:39.:26:40.

Islamic State is such that the public believe the Government is

:26:41.:26:43.

doing the right thing, in the main. But, as we know from previous

:26:44.:26:48.

military interventions, political and public opinion can change and

:26:49.:26:54.

change very fast. Thank you. We will talk later tonight. Laura

:26:55.:26:55.

Kuenssberg, our political editor. Time for a look at the weather.

:26:56.:26:59.

Here's Helen Willetts. Some lovely Weather Watchers'

:27:00.:27:09.

pictures today. It wasn't sunny for all. After what has been a dull

:27:10.:27:13.

November, it continued that way in parts of Northern Ireland. Why?

:27:14.:27:17.

Because it is here, along with the North, where we started the day with

:27:18.:27:22.

our weather front. There are further bumps materialising on that front,

:27:23.:27:25.

which means more rain. It is distinguishing that mild air from

:27:26.:27:31.

the cold, wintry weather in the north. That will continue overnight,

:27:32.:27:36.

cold enough for some frost, potential for some ice and fog in

:27:37.:27:41.

the north. The rain takes centre stage. As I mentioned, it is a cold

:27:42.:27:47.

start to the day tomorrow in the north. A bit of fog around. By the

:27:48.:27:52.

rush hour tomorrow morning, some rain falling across the

:27:53.:27:56.

trans-pennine routes. Hopefully, having eased a bit further south,

:27:57.:28:01.

but it will be mild and grey here. Hopefully, we will see a bit of

:28:02.:28:04.

sunshine coming through. Those windows of fine weather will close

:28:05.:28:09.

in as the winds strengthen in the south. More rain will be pushed into

:28:10.:28:19.

Wales, northern Scotland. Still quite balmy if we see the

:28:20.:28:23.

sunshine further south and east. The windows of sunshine are diminishing.

:28:24.:28:30.

Notice, the snow for the southern uplands, much quieter to start

:28:31.:28:33.

Friday. That doesn't last. Look at this next spell of stormy weather

:28:34.:28:39.

coming in. A real squeeze on those isobars, so some severe gales going

:28:40.:28:43.

into the weekend and yet more rain. So there are warnings in force

:28:44.:28:47.

because river levels are high, they are on the website. Huw.

:28:48.:28:52.

The debate on whether to support British air strikes in Syria is

:28:53.:28:58.

continuing. MPs are expected to vote at 10.00pm tonight. So I will be

:28:59.:29:01.

back then with the results for you. For now, from all of the team on BBC

:29:02.:29:05.

News at Six, we will

:29:06.:29:06.

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