03/02/2016 BBC Wales Today


03/02/2016

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and on BBC One, we now join the BBC's news teams where you are.

:00:00.:00:00.

Tonight's headlines: The state of the NHS takes centre stage

:00:00.:00:00.

in Cardiff and Westminster as the First Minister

:00:07.:00:10.

and the Prime Minister attack each other's record on health.

:00:11.:00:22.

England ministers have embarked on a reform so dizzying in its complexity

:00:23.:00:31.

so baffling its structure that patients there could be forgiven

:00:32.:00:35.

wondering who is in charge. Diagnosis of pneumonia takes two

:00:36.:00:39.

weeks longer, treatments of heart operations and cataracts take two

:00:40.:00:41.

months longer than in England. Labour are running Wales.

:00:42.:00:52.

Also tonight: The discovery of a man's body at an Anglesey

:00:53.:00:54.

beauty spot is thought to be linked to the murders of a woman

:00:55.:00:58.

Calls from the First Ministers of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

:00:59.:01:03.

to hold the EU referendum later than June are rejected by the Prime

:01:04.:01:07.

And we're in Aberystwyth where a team of academics

:01:08.:01:12.

are benefitting from a fund that's supporting new antibiotic research.

:01:13.:01:20.

A few surprises in the Wales team to face Ireland on Sunday. Six years

:01:21.:01:27.

after his last cap Tom James is back in Wales shirt. I think he has grown

:01:28.:01:34.

up and mature wood as a person and a player.

:01:35.:01:38.

The state of the NHS in Wales took centre stage today in

:01:39.:01:43.

The Prime Minister attacked the Welsh Government's record

:01:44.:01:46.

on running the NHS here, criticising the long waits patients

:01:47.:01:49.

It follows an exclusive report by BBC Wales which showed average

:01:50.:01:53.

waiting times here are longer for most key treatments

:01:54.:01:55.

In a speech in Cardiff today, the First Minister launched a major

:01:56.:01:59.

attack on what he called the confrontational philosophy

:02:00.:02:01.

Here's our political editor, Nick Servini.

:02:02.:02:13.

Two leaders and two very different takes on the state of the Welsh NHS.

:02:14.:02:21.

As the first Bannister did a major speech defending his record over the

:02:22.:02:24.

past five years, and setting out his vision for the next, David Cameron

:02:25.:02:30.

used Prime Minister's Questions in the Commons to respond to our story

:02:31.:02:34.

last week which revealed how many waiting times in the NHS in Wales

:02:35.:02:40.

were falling behind in London. He cannot washes hands of the situation

:02:41.:02:46.

in Wales. Hip operations in England take 75 days waiting times on

:02:47.:02:54.

average, in Wales its 197 days. Diagnosis of pneumonia takes two

:02:55.:02:58.

weeks longer, treat the Dove cataracts, Ernie Els and heart

:02:59.:03:02.

operations take two months longer than in England. Labour are running

:03:03.:03:07.

Wales. He is responsible for Labour. Pick up the phone, tell them to stop

:03:08.:03:14.

cutting or NHS. But is the Welsh NHS living in the shadow of its much

:03:15.:03:17.

larger neighbour? Not so according to Carwyn Jones who told senior

:03:18.:03:22.

health figures in Cardiff that the accountability of the Welsh NHS

:03:23.:03:25.

contrasted with the baffling complexity in England and pointed to

:03:26.:03:31.

research showing nine out of ten patients rated the care they had

:03:32.:03:36.

received. A crisis is an easy headline to write about the system

:03:37.:03:41.

but when people face a crisis of their own as the statistics show the

:03:42.:03:46.

system is there for them. But we cannot be complacent. That is the

:03:47.:03:54.

challenge we must set ourselves in the future. This was very much a

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speech from the First Minister designed to reassure the greater and

:03:59.:04:02.

the good of the NHS in this room. Unlike in England they said they

:04:03.:04:07.

would be no major reorganisation and no strikes by doctors. There is

:04:08.:04:12.

undoubtedly a much closer and friendlier relationship between

:04:13.:04:14.

government and the health service in Wales than in England. But is it too

:04:15.:04:22.

cosy here? I would not agree the relationship is cosy within Wales.

:04:23.:04:27.

There is a strong degree of performance management in the

:04:28.:04:29.

system. What that is is a clear shared value set and a clear vision

:04:30.:04:35.

about what we want to do together. There is a real difficulty in Wales

:04:36.:04:39.

because it is a small country and there is nothing between the

:04:40.:04:42.

minister and the health service. There are no intermediate level saw

:04:43.:04:46.

the Minister must hold back a bit and not get involved in

:04:47.:04:49.

micromanagement. The health service has benefited from the fact the

:04:50.:04:55.

Minister has held back. But we have an election approaching. All normal

:04:56.:04:58.

rules are put into abeyance for the next four months. That pre-election

:04:59.:05:02.

scrutiny will ramp up even further next week when a major report is

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publishing to the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different

:05:07.:05:09.

health systems across the UK. Do the people running the Welsh NHS

:05:10.:05:12.

accept there are problems? This was the annual get-together of

:05:13.:05:22.

experts and charities and nobody in the room denied the NHS is facing

:05:23.:05:25.

huge challenges such as caring for a population living longer with a

:05:26.:05:29.

variety of illnesses but a common complaint was that the system was

:05:30.:05:34.

not changing quicker to respond. But sometimes we look at the Welsh NHS

:05:35.:05:39.

in isolation. We know of GP shortages in related and we had

:05:40.:05:42.

today of similar problems in Scotland and we heard of that

:05:43.:05:48.

problems joining up health and social care was a global problem not

:05:49.:05:53.

just in Wales. And we heard of a ?2 billion black hole facing the NHS in

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England this year and the Welsh Government seeing the NHS in Wales

:05:58.:06:00.

overall will balance its books. In the run-up to the election Labour

:06:01.:06:04.

will try and spend its record. Carwyn Jones tried to do that today

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but it critics will claim to fund the government made the wrong

:06:09.:06:11.

decision. For example squeezing health budgets at the very start of

:06:12.:06:17.

this assembly term, the very time those waiting times described the Mr

:06:18.:06:21.

Cameron were lengthening. The problem is it's impossible to say

:06:22.:06:24.

had anybody else been a charge would they have fared any better. What

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voters will be doing between now and the election is looking at those

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health policies from all the parties and perhaps themselves are the

:06:33.:06:36.

deliverable and will they make a difference to solving those

:06:37.:06:48.

pressures which won't go away? BBC Wales is looking at what makes us

:06:49.:06:54.

different is to the rest of the UK. It's part of a series called how

:06:55.:06:57.

Wales works and you can follow it across ABC radio and TV.

:06:58.:07:00.

A factory employing around 150 people in Caerphilly County

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The United States-based company which owns Penny and Giles

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in Cwmfelinfach says the closure is due to current

:07:08.:07:09.

The firm makes equipment including joysticks and motion sensors

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for commercial vehicles and industrial use.

:07:15.:07:19.

The discovery of a man's body at an Anglesey beauty spot

:07:20.:07:22.

is thought to be linked to the murders of a woman

:07:23.:07:25.

The body was recovered from South Stack near Holyhead,

:07:26.:07:28.

hours after Geraldine Newman, her son and daughter

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It's thought the man is her estranged partner.

:07:32.:07:35.

Matthew Richards is in Holyhead for us.

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Matthew, what do we know about the people who died?

:07:38.:07:44.

West Yorkshire Police were called to a house in Leeds yesterday around

:07:45.:07:50.

midday after the discovery of these three bodies and the woman has been

:07:51.:07:55.

identified as Geraldine Newman and the Chew children are reported to be

:07:56.:07:59.

her 11-year-old daughter and six-year-old son. Then the focus

:08:00.:08:03.

turns to Anglesey following the discovery yesterday evening of a

:08:04.:08:07.

man's body on a cliff edge at South Stack. That is also understood to be

:08:08.:08:18.

Mrs Newman's estranged partner who lived not far from the scene of the

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murder. What connections did they have with Anglesey? Very little

:08:27.:08:33.

information has come out today and over the coming days we might find a

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more details but what we understand is that Geraldine Newman does have

:08:38.:08:40.

relatives who live in Holyhead and who have lived here for some time.

:08:41.:08:45.

Procedures would normally mean that members of the police would act as

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family liaison officers to give them support during the early stages of

:08:50.:08:55.

the investigation. The postmortem examinations are due to be carried

:08:56.:08:58.

out on some of those who died tomorrow so it's a very tragic story

:08:59.:09:03.

and more details will unfold as the week goes on.

:09:04.:09:05.

A man's appeared before magistrates in Swansea charged with the murder

:09:06.:09:08.

43-year-old Rhys Trevor Anthony Hobbs was charged after the body

:09:09.:09:12.

of Andrea Lewis was found by police at a house in Tonna on Saturday.

:09:13.:09:15.

Another man, who was also arrested in connection with her death,

:09:16.:09:18.

has been released on bail while the investigation continues.

:09:19.:09:24.

Calls to postpone the EU referendum until later in the year to avoid

:09:25.:09:27.

a clash with the National Assembly election have been rejected

:09:28.:09:30.

The First Minister, Carwyn Jones, has written to David Cameron warning

:09:31.:09:35.

that a June referendum would "distract" from the elections.

:09:36.:09:38.

But the Prime Minister has told MPs there would be at least six weeks

:09:39.:09:42.

Our parliamentary correspondent, David Cornock reports.

:09:43.:09:56.

Bucks fizz, winners of Eurovision the big annual vote in Europe and

:09:57.:10:02.

after David Cameron's proposed deal on Britain's mentorship of the EU

:10:03.:10:06.

has now make your mind up time for politicians and the rest of us.

:10:07.:10:10.

Conservative MPs are starting to take sides. I am going to be saying

:10:11.:10:15.

to everybody I am out and proud and I will vote to come out of the

:10:16.:10:19.

European Union. I think it is absolutely outrageous that after

:10:20.:10:22.

asking for a fair deal the Prime Minister has been told no and has

:10:23.:10:26.

been told is going to be ignored on issues like benefits so we need to

:10:27.:10:29.

send a message to the EU. We are not willing to take that and if they are

:10:30.:10:33.

not willing to play the game we will come out. I signed a letter today so

:10:34.:10:41.

this is a group of Conservative MPs that supports staying in the EU but

:10:42.:10:46.

a reform European Union. But when will the referendum be? Most MPs

:10:47.:10:51.

think the premise to want to hold in June but Carwyn Jones and the first

:10:52.:10:55.

ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland say that could distract from

:10:56.:10:58.

the devolved elections. They have written to David Cameron to asking

:10:59.:11:03.

for a delay. The letter warns that the June poll could risk confusing

:11:04.:11:07.

issues on clarity is required. They got a swift response in person and a

:11:08.:11:11.

guarantee of a short gap between poles. People are perfectly capable,

:11:12.:11:19.

six weeks or more after 17 letters to consider another election and I

:11:20.:11:22.

know the Leader of the Opposition whose party is in control of Wales

:11:23.:11:26.

was actually pressing me to hold the referendum on the 23rd of June.

:11:27.:11:31.

Labour in Westminster support a June vote despite the Prime minister's

:11:32.:11:36.

fees but a six-week gap did not satisfy Plaid Cymru. In the Welsh

:11:37.:11:40.

general election how will his Conservative colleagues argue for

:11:41.:11:44.

the economic stability that Wales needs when that might be overthrown

:11:45.:11:47.

by his referendum just six weeks later. The earliest the referendum

:11:48.:11:54.

could be held with the June the 16th but with Wales playing England at

:11:55.:11:57.

football in France that day it looks rather unlikely. So put June the

:11:58.:12:03.

23rd in your diary. But that still depends on David Cameron clinching

:12:04.:12:06.

the deal in Brussels later this month.

:12:07.:12:11.

Much more to come before 7:00pm: Newport's new shopping centre

:12:12.:12:13.

attracted record numbers over Christmas, so is the future of Welsh

:12:14.:12:16.

And Gareth Anscombe is picked for Wales at full-back,

:12:17.:12:23.

while his team mate at the Blues Tom James

:12:24.:12:25.

We'll assess the team taking on Ireland on Sunday.

:12:26.:12:35.

Resistance to antibiotics is one of the top health concerns

:12:36.:12:37.

Research here that could lead to new drugs to tackle the problem

:12:38.:12:42.

is being given a lifeline with investment from a Welsh

:12:43.:12:45.

Here's our business correspondent, Brian Meechan.

:12:46.:12:54.

This team is at the early stages of work that could lead to new

:12:55.:13:00.

antibiotics reaching the market one day. Ground-breaking research is

:13:01.:13:05.

being carried out at universities across Wales like here in

:13:06.:13:09.

Aberystwyth that some of the ideas have failed to go any further

:13:10.:13:12.

because the initial work is finished before a company is ready to take it

:13:13.:13:19.

on. It is the so-called Valley of death and that is what the bridging

:13:20.:13:22.

fenders Theatre get the best research across. It's an expensive

:13:23.:13:26.

business with few guarantees. A new drug takes up to 14 years to go from

:13:27.:13:32.

initial idea to reaching the market. It costs over ?1 billion because of

:13:33.:13:38.

the high failure rate of research. After the academic stage that are

:13:39.:13:41.

still only a one in 10,000 chance of finding a new drug, that is why it's

:13:42.:13:47.

called the Valley of death. If the bridging fund gets ideas past that

:13:48.:13:51.

point there is a win in seven chance of a new drug which is way companies

:13:52.:13:55.

are willing to begin trials. The impact of the funds money has been

:13:56.:14:01.

felt by Doctor Sharon Hughes. Now of course there is an impetus on

:14:02.:14:06.

commercialisation and using what we generate on the lab. Without this

:14:07.:14:14.

funding certainly a lot of this would fall by the wayside. It's no

:14:15.:14:18.

exaggeration to say that antibiotic resistance is reaching crisis point.

:14:19.:14:22.

It's estimated 10 million people a year will die in future unless more

:14:23.:14:27.

new drugs are discovered but there is no incentive for companies to do

:14:28.:14:30.

that because it will cost a lot to make them while they will only be

:14:31.:14:34.

used when all other and to the ticks have failed. The ?3 million bridging

:14:35.:14:40.

fund is administered by the life sciences have with the investment

:14:41.:14:42.

coming from the Welsh Government. What is startling I imagine is that

:14:43.:14:49.

there has been no new class of and to the optics are 30 years. 1987 was

:14:50.:14:55.

when the first class was discovered and there has been no new discovery

:14:56.:15:01.

since then. It's partly because there is no incentive for companies

:15:02.:15:04.

to come in. The current jabs are cheap and work well in most patients

:15:05.:15:09.

but if you are one of the unfortunate patients they don't work

:15:10.:15:15.

for its a disaster. Ever increasing resistance to add to be optics

:15:16.:15:19.

means, infections could once again killed and some surgeries and

:15:20.:15:22.

treatments would be impossible and that is what researchers in Welsh

:15:23.:15:26.

life sciences sector are doing their best to prevent.

:15:27.:15:29.

Labour says its MPs will vote against UK Government plans

:15:30.:15:31.

to rewrite the devolution settlement unless they are radically changed.

:15:32.:15:34.

The shadow Welsh Secretary, Nia Griffith, said the draft

:15:35.:15:36.

Wales Bill would limit the powers of the Assembly.

:15:37.:15:38.

But the Secretary of State for Wales, Stephen Crabb,

:15:39.:15:40.

said criticism of the plans was "ill-informed and just plain wrong".

:15:41.:15:46.

The UK government has announced it will freeze a proposed ?400,000 cut

:15:47.:15:49.

to S4C's budget while an independent review of the channel

:15:50.:15:51.

The channel's chief executive and some Welsh MPs had called

:15:52.:15:56.

for an official assessment of its financial requirements

:15:57.:15:59.

A review of the Welsh language broadcaster's remit,

:16:00.:16:05.

governance and funding will happen in 2017.

:16:06.:16:12.

This allows us to have a digital model for the digital world. The

:16:13.:16:20.

original channel was set up in 1982 when we only had three channels. The

:16:21.:16:27.

world has moved on since then and this provides an opportunity for the

:16:28.:16:30.

independent sector in Wales, the Welsh speaking community and the

:16:31.:16:33.

English-speaking community to come together to provide channel that has

:16:34.:16:34.

got a vision for the future. Dwr Cymru Welsh Water has announced

:16:35.:16:37.

that household bills will remain The not-for-profit company says

:16:38.:16:40.

customers will pay an average Could the future of Welsh retail be

:16:41.:16:43.

in our town and city centres? Figures seen by BBC Wales show

:16:44.:16:50.

Newport city centre recently A quarter of a million people

:16:51.:16:52.

visited every week in December after the new "Friars Walk"

:16:53.:16:57.

shopping centre opened. Swansea has just announced plans

:16:58.:16:59.

to revamp its city centre and tens of millions visited

:17:00.:17:02.

Cardiff's Saint David's Two Part shopping centre

:17:03.:17:04.

and if the music's anything to go The crowds arrived

:17:05.:17:21.

in time for Christmas. We now have "footfall"

:17:22.:17:26.

figures for Christmas. They show an average of nearly

:17:27.:17:33.

a quarter of a million people visited the city centre

:17:34.:17:36.

each week in December. The highest figure

:17:37.:17:40.

for close to a decade. There was a near 3% drop

:17:41.:17:43.

across Wales between last December People are certainly coming back to

:17:44.:17:58.

the city centre. We are seeing an increasing number of other retailers

:17:59.:17:59.

in the city. Paul Gray's family have been

:18:00.:18:03.

in business in Newport They started selling candles

:18:04.:18:05.

in their Beechwood shop But since moving to Friars Walk his

:18:06.:18:08.

takings are up by 40%. Business has been superb since we

:18:09.:18:20.

opened. On the number of occasions we have been replenishing the start

:18:21.:18:24.

and as we're putting it on the shelves people are taking it off.

:18:25.:18:28.

These are the new half a billion pound plans for Swansea City centre

:18:29.:18:31.

Shops not seen outside of London are promised along with housing

:18:32.:18:35.

It all follows the success of Saint David's Two in Cardiff.

:18:36.:18:42.

So are we now seeing a trend away from this?

:18:43.:18:44.

We all know about the rise of online retail.

:18:45.:18:48.

But could relocating back to our town and city centres be part

:18:49.:18:51.

It feels as if people wanted experience and a varied experience

:18:52.:19:03.

where they have everything. Here we have the restaurants, the cinema,

:19:04.:19:08.

the shops, everything seemed to be in one place. City centre but is

:19:09.:19:13.

coming to the centre. It seems to be simpler for people.

:19:14.:19:17.

Newport and Swansea were recently named as low wage,

:19:18.:19:19.

Newport Council see these footfall figures as a sign

:19:20.:19:22.

Whether they've made an impression, certainly on the bank balances

:19:23.:19:27.

of independent traders, isn't yet known.

:19:28.:19:28.

But the figures will be welcome news for Newport and all those places

:19:29.:19:31.

investing in their town and city centres.

:19:32.:19:33.

With news of the Wales team to face Ireland

:19:34.:19:35.

Scarlets prop Rob Evans will start instead of the record cap

:19:36.:19:41.

He'll be on the bench for the game against the defending

:19:42.:19:45.

Despite playing just one game in two months,

:19:46.:19:49.

So too Gareth Anscombe at full-back, and Tom James will play almost six

:19:50.:19:54.

Head coach Warren Gatland said there is always trepidation about the

:19:55.:20:07.

opening game but he had no worries about picking a bold team for the

:20:08.:20:11.

trip to Ireland for a match against the defending champions. After six

:20:12.:20:16.

years away from the international stage, wing Tom James is back in

:20:17.:20:21.

Wales shirt to win his 10th cap. Reward for excelling for Cardiff

:20:22.:20:25.

Blues. And having spent a couple of seasons at Exeter Warren Gatland

:20:26.:20:30.

insisted time away from Wales had benefited him. He was in the Welsh

:20:31.:20:37.

goldfish bowl and he needed to get out and he went out and went to the

:20:38.:20:44.

premiership and played for Exeter. I think he has grown up and Michu

:20:45.:20:50.

would. Gareth Davies starts at scrum-half, Dan Biggar at number ten

:20:51.:20:53.

and Jonathan Davies returns from injury for the first time since last

:20:54.:20:58.

year's six Nations. He names -- he plays alongside Jamie Roberts.

:20:59.:21:04.

Cardiff Blues Gareth Anscombe makes his six Nations debut at full-back

:21:05.:21:07.

having started there in the last two World Cup games. In the Parc y

:21:08.:21:11.

Scarlets prop Rob Evans is preferred to Gethin Jenkins. With the record

:21:12.:21:17.

cap holder on the bench does it represent a changing of the guard?

:21:18.:21:21.

Possibly. He is a young player for the future and he's had a few caps

:21:22.:21:26.

and we have been impressed with this form for the Scarlets. He is joined

:21:27.:21:31.

by Scott pulled and Samson Lee in the front row. Luke Charteris and

:21:32.:21:33.

Alun Wyn Jones continue their partnership in the second row.

:21:34.:21:37.

Justin Tipuric starts the game at open side flanker with Captain Sam

:21:38.:21:43.

Warburton moving to blindside. He has played just one game in two

:21:44.:21:46.

months but insists he is ready for Sunday. I know what's coming so from

:21:47.:21:50.

that point of view my mind and body is ready for that. I will go as hard

:21:51.:21:56.

as I can and if I blow gasket that is why you've got the British Lions

:21:57.:22:01.

come off the bench. That lion is Dan Lydiate, part of an experienced

:22:02.:22:05.

bench. Wills' replacements have more than 350 caps between them. The

:22:06.:22:10.

Wales management hope they will make an impact in Dublin on Sunday.

:22:11.:22:13.

Swansea City midfielder Ki Sung Yeung is a doubt

:22:14.:22:15.

for Saturday's game at home to Crystal Palace

:22:16.:22:17.

The South Korean international replaced by Alberto Palosgi

:22:18.:22:20.

for his first appearance for the Swans.

:22:21.:22:22.

Gylfi Siggurdson scored the opening goal and Swansea were on course

:22:23.:22:24.

for victory until West Brom bundled home an equaliser deep

:22:25.:22:27.

When you concede so late is that the biggest disappointment? Yes because

:22:28.:22:49.

at the end we had a victory, but this is for all. Let's get a full

:22:50.:22:55.

check on the weather forecast now with Derek.

:22:56.:23:01.

Strong winds, rain and snow on some hills this morning.

:23:02.:23:05.

Less windy with some sunshine this afternoon.

:23:06.:23:06.

This warm front over Ireland is moving towards us.

:23:07.:23:11.

Bringing some rain and introducing milder, moister air

:23:12.:23:12.

This evening, a dry start bar the odd shower but rain will spread

:23:13.:23:17.

from the west later in the evening and overnight.

:23:18.:23:19.

A little snow on high ground for a time.

:23:20.:23:22.

Cold this evening but temperatures rising later in the night.

:23:23.:23:25.

Here's the picture for 8:00am in the morning.

:23:26.:23:30.

Much milder than today with a lot of cloud.

:23:31.:23:34.

Further south, some dry weather but with spots of drizzle.

:23:35.:23:39.

Patches of light rain and drizzle, especially on the hills

:23:40.:23:49.

Drier in the North East and the Marches with odd

:23:50.:23:55.

Top temperatures, 9C to 13C with a west to

:23:56.:24:01.

Tomorrow night, further pockets of rain and drizzle.

:24:02.:24:06.

Especially in the south and west and on the hills.

:24:07.:24:08.

Drier in the East and North East and a mild night.

:24:09.:24:11.

Friday will continue mild and breezy.

:24:12.:24:13.

Strong winds in the West and North West.

:24:14.:24:16.

Some rain and drizzle at times although Flintshire and Wrexham

:24:17.:24:19.

Friday night, a cold front will bring a short

:24:20.:24:24.

Saturday morning will be the best part of the day.

:24:25.:24:31.

Turning wet and windier during the afternoon.

:24:32.:24:34.

The wind and rain associated with this area of low pressure.

:24:35.:24:38.

We're not sure yet the exact track it will take.

:24:39.:24:42.

Sunday, breezy with sunshine and showers.

:24:43.:24:46.

More rain in the evening together with stronger winds.

:24:47.:24:50.

Sunday night and especially Monday, potentially very windy.

:24:51.:24:53.

Gales or severe gales with a risk of disruption.

:24:54.:24:56.

No warnings in force at the moment but that could change.

:24:57.:25:02.

A reminder of our top story. Carwyn Jones and David Cameron has been

:25:03.:25:21.

attacking each other to records on the NHS. The primaries to criticise

:25:22.:25:25.

waiting times in Wales, the First Minister attacked what he called the

:25:26.:25:28.

match confrontational philosophy in the English NHS.

:25:29.:25:32.

I'll have a quick update at 8:00am and a full round up after the BBC

:25:33.:25:36.

But from me, Derek, Tomos and everyone on the programme,

:25:37.:25:40.

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