Browse content similar to 05/10/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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In Look East tonight the ambulance Trust admits it is failing to get | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
hundreds of suspected stroke and heart attack patients to hospital | :00:14. | :00:20. | |
quickly enough. Now an MP speaks out. We might see perverse | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
consequences of targets, so I am raising this with the Care Quality | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
Commission and the Secretary of State. It needs to be investigated. | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
Also tonight - Kylie heads to Chelmsford to be honoured for her | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
work on breast-cancer awareness. A lucky escape for school children | :00:40. | :00:49. | |
after a sail falls off this windmill. I have two choices here - | :00:50. | :00:59. | |
:01:00. | :01:01. | ||
the man's excuse, or mammogram. meet the will woman from here who | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
inspired the Hollywood film over there. -- real woman. | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
First tonight, the ambulance trust admitting that too many of its | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
patients aren't making it to hospital quickly enough and the MP | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
calling for an investigation. Most of us expect that if we dial | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
999 we will get taken straight to hospital. But very often you will | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
you get a paramedic who will then decide what needs to be done. You | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
might have to wait a lot longer for the back up ambulance which will | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
take you to A&E. This graph shows how the number of heart and stroke | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
patients waiting more than an hour for an ambulance has shot up over | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
the last four years. The trust blames a dramatic rise in the | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
number of those emergency calls. But it does admit there is a | :01:47. | :01:57. | |
:01:57. | :02:00. | ||
problem and has promised a review. When a stroke strikes, it spreads | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
like a pie in the brain. campaign talking of the need to act | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
fast. It should take 90 minutes for an ambulance to reach a suspected | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
heart or stroke patients to take them to hospital, but for hundreds | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
of people that is not happening. On 26th June at a woman called to Reza | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
was having a meal at the restaurant behind me. Just before 6 o'clock | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
she collapsed with a suspected stroke. Her family dark 999 and | :02:30. | :02:38. | |
within five minutes a paramedic arrived, but it took more than an | :02:38. | :02:46. | |
ambulance for -- but it took more than an hour for the ambulance to | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
arrive. It had to come from Huntingdon, and aware away. Often a | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
paramedic is dispatched followed by an ambulance. It is claimed that | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
often that ambulance is diverted to meet target times. An MP is calling | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
for an investigation. If you do not get a stroke patient to hospital | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
within the defined period of time, the consequences can be disastrous. | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
So getting patients who need it to hospital very quickly is essential. | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Ambulance workers at Peterborough are complaining to managers about | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
potential dangers. They say too many crews are being put into | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
rapid-response vehicles with potential critical patients having | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
to wait more than an hour. If you have got a patient who needs a | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
paramedic and technician attending and the vehicle they are travelling | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
in his be directed to hit a target, that can only be placing patients | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
at risk. The Trust denies Reed directing vehicles to hit targets. | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
However, it has one of the worst performance times before getting | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
patients hospital. We want to provide a quality response to our | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
patients and the quicker we can do that, the better the outcome for | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
the patient because when the car get there it has a highly skilled | :04:15. | :04:23. | |
technician that can start treatment straight away. The issue has | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
already led to a grievance been raised by staff. Ambulance Service | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
has promised a fault review. -- de Ambulance Service. | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
Pam Chrispin is the medical director for the East of England | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
Ambulance Service. She's at the ambulance HQ at Cambourne now. Too | :04:42. | :04:49. | |
many patients phoning you it is not a very good excuse, is it? We are | :04:49. | :04:59. | |
:04:59. | :05:01. | ||
always concerned when patients have a bad experience. We have introduce | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
more cars to get to people more quickly. Only about 60 % of our | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
patients need to go to hospital, so the paramedic can treat a patient | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
and they can stay at home. Any patient to need to go to hospital | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
need to go very quickly and we will be concerned about any incidents | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
when that does not happen. In 351 cases they have to wait more than | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
an hour. Is that totally unacceptable? Yes. It sounds a lot. | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
We have to put that into context of the number of Heart and Stroke | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
patients who called us. We had over 27,000 last year. That has doubled | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
in three years, so we are getting higher numbers of patients ringing | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
with those conditions. Although the numbers have gone up, and actually, | :05:53. | :06:01. | |
I think one of those patients who received an unacceptable delay, it | :06:01. | :06:08. | |
is not good for anyone. We take the series - that we take these problem | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
seriously and investigate all of them. Are you too much target | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
dominated in that you can get an ambulance for someone lives in a | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
town with something quite minor quite quickly. Whereas getting | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
someone who lives in the countryside is not easy? It is OK | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
to talk about targets, but if I was having my heart attack, where ever | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
I was, I would want someone we knew what they were doing to get to me | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
quickly and that is what we have been working to achieve. In the | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
case you mentioned, the paramedic was there in under five minutes. | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
What we want is to get people they quickly who can provide emergency | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
treatment so that even if the patient does need to go to hospital, | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
while they are waiting for the ambulance emergency treatment and | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
further assessment can be carried out and we can be on the phone to | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
the hospital to advise them what emergency treatment the patient | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
might need when they get there. Thank you. | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
And if you have been affected by a delay in an ambulance getting to | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
you, we'd love to hear your story. You can call or e-mail, and please | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
don't forget to leave a contact phone number. | :07:17. | :07:27. | |
Later in the programme: Kylie is in Chelmsford. Here's Mike Liggins. | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
Yes, she is receiving an honorary degree from Anglia Ruskin | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
University for her work in raising a breast-cancer awareness. She will | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
be like in the degree ceremony after more news from your part of | :07:43. | :07:51. | |
the region. -- breast cancer. A group of school children narrowly | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
escaped serious injury when a sail from a windmill collapsed. Debris | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
landed just yards from where they were sitting. They were visiting | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Denver Mill in Norfolk when the sail came loose. The people who run | :08:00. | :08:10. | |
:08:10. | :08:11. | ||
the mill say it's a miracle nobody was hurt. | :08:11. | :08:20. | |
A forlorn sight as one sail rests on another. The steel caps snapped | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
yesterday and as debris rained down or a party of 20 schoolchildren | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
were yards away. Not quite the show and tell session they expected to | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
relate back at school. I heard a loud bang. We looked and it was the | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
wind will falling down. I saw its mashed down to the floor. Bits of | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
it was falling on to the lunchboxes. Some of the debris hit the packed | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
lunches where they had been eating half an hour before. Too close for | :08:54. | :09:04. | |
:09:04. | :09:17. | ||
comfort. Within seconds, the sails.. I put the shutters on and stop them. | :09:17. | :09:27. | |
:09:27. | :09:34. | ||
-- the sales.. The winner will remain open, but be sails will not | :09:34. | :09:41. | |
remain turning. -- the windmill. The problem now is who will for the | :09:41. | :09:50. | |
repair bill. The hope is that the Insurers or a generous benefactor | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
will come to its aid. The last of three men who escaped | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
from a secure unit in Suffolk has been arrested by police in Bristol. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
Luke Sparks escaped from St John's House in Palgrave on Sunday | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
afternoon. He was captured early this morning. A woman's been | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
arrested on suspicion of helping prisoners escape. | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
A traveller who threw a cup of tea over a bailiff during the Dale Farm | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
operation has been cautioned by the police. It happened on September | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
19th outside the illegal camp. Tensions were high, so the 63-year- | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
old wasn't arrested for assault at the time. The eviction was halted | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
by an injunction shortly afterwards. All this week the political agenda | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
has been dominated by the Conservative Party conference and | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
like any party there are the pressure groups like the Bow group | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
and the 1922 Committee. This year there's a new one with an exclusive | :10:38. | :10:48. | |
membership. Last night in Manchester and away | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
from the cameras the 40 came together for their conference | :10:54. | :11:04. | |
:11:04. | :11:06. | ||
reception. The 40 is the club no- one wants to be in. It is the | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
faulty most marginal seats in the country. The members who make up | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
the 40 are those who just a breakthrough in the last election. | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
They are also likely to lose their seats in the next election. -- that | :11:23. | :11:30. | |
scraped through. You watch your mailbag closely and watch to see | :11:30. | :11:40. | |
what the issues are that concerned people. B40 tell -- for the 40 | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
members call themselves a self-help group. They have regular access to | :11:44. | :11:54. | |
:11:54. | :11:54. | ||
ministers who tell them what issues are playing on the doorsteps. | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
marginal constituencies you get a broad spread of the problems that | :12:00. | :12:10. | |
can be distributed more evenly in safer seats. They hope their | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
campaigning will lead to a stronger person or vote to save them at the | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
next election. -- personal vote. In the football last night Southend | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
are into the third round of the Johnstone's Paint Trophy. Ryan Hall | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
gave them the lead, but Dagenham and Redbridge soon equalised. Hall | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
got a second for Southend with 15 minutes to go before Neil Harris | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
made it 3-1 in added time with his third goal in three games. It makes | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
five wins in a row for Southend in all competitions. They are | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
currently top of League Two. They go to Crewe on Saturday, who are | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
struggling down in 19th. It's been revealed that spectators | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
at the Olympic Games will be subjected to airport style liquid | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
bans. All venues, including the mountain biking course in Essex, | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
are covered by the ban on liquids in containers of 100ml or more. It | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
was more relaxed for the test event in the summer and not a lot to | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
trouble the army of former soldiers brought in to run security. People | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
came for the day with drinks and picnics. Had they not, the catering | :13:10. | :13:20. | |
vans were selling sandwiches for a fiver. Next year though containers | :13:20. | :13:28. | |
that had more than 100 millilitres of liquid will be banned. A London | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
2012 spokesman said that people coming with a backpack will be OK, | :13:33. | :13:43. | |
:13:43. | :13:45. | ||
but large hampers will be a problem. It looks as if the security guards | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
will be in it for a busy time of no matter what happens. | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
The threat of strike action at sugar beet factories in this region | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
has gone away. Members of the Unite union voted against it. The union | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
has now accepted the company's offer of 3.5% So what is the going | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
rate for pay rises at the moment? Our business correspondent Richard | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
Bond has been finding out. Well, it's tough out there if | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
you're after a pay rise, especially if you're in the public sector. A | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
pay freeze is currently in force. For example, staff at Norfolk | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
County Council haven't had a rise for two years. And it's even worse | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
at Central Bedfordshire Council. Staff there have just had their pay | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
cut by 2%. Workers in the private sector are faring a little better, | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
but many of them had to put up with pay freezes two or three years ago. | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Those at Vauxhall in Luton, for example, have just been given 4.5% | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
after a two year pay freeze. Workers at the Port of Felixstowe | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
got 3.6% this year, those at Anglian Water 4.7%. And staff at | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
the financial giant Aviva got an average of 2%. But are these deals | :14:52. | :15:02. | |
:15:02. | :15:03. | ||
typical? I am afraid a lot of companies are not giving any pay | :15:03. | :15:11. | |
rises and those that are are looking at between two and 4%. The | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
companies are looking to engage and retain people, but they are being | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
prudent. All this means that with inflation | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
at 5.2$ and most wage deals below that, workers are currently seeing | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
a reduction in their living standards. | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
It's been the worst start to a season for Northampton Saints in | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
seven years. They've won just one game in five and are one place from | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
the bottom of the Premiership. One reason is what's happening on the | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
other side of the world. Eight of their players are taking part in | :15:41. | :15:50. | |
the World Cup in New Zealand, but it's not the only reason. | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
I don't think anybody likes to lose and the players definitely don't. | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
We as coaches and managers don't. It is a terrible feeling that stays | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
with you every day. In the summer the coaches and managers knew the | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
drill. Eight of their players were on World Cup duty, so they planned | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
ahead, or so they thought. Unfortunately Northampton Saints | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
have not scored a try in three games. We have been here before | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
during the Six Nations. Their form was rescued when the internationals | :16:28. | :16:38. | |
:16:38. | :16:39. | ||
the 10th. Be it is really hard. -- it is. We have tremendous players | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
that are a way, but we have got good players here and they need to | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
know that. Saints will not see their England stars until the end | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
of October and then the Six Nations start again in the new year. That | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
is five months without five of their biggest names. The | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
International Rugby Board in England says that rugby must dark | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
at first weekend in September. Other teams have lost plenty more | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
players and are not as badly affected. I cannot put my finger on | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
it. We had played hard and well. Or it is is that we have come up short | :17:15. | :17:25. | |
on a couple of games. Whatever the reason, confidence has been knocked. | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
The leftover leaders just are not leading. They have Saturday to | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
sorted out. Lose their and the Premiership title could be a | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
distant dream. It's ten years now since a novel | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
charting the highs and lows of being a working mum first appeared | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
on the shelves. The title has almost become a catchphrase: "I | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
Don't Know How She Does It." That book was based on the life of | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
Miranda Richards, who lives in Norfolk. Now, of course, it's a | :17:48. | :17:55. | |
Hollywood film. Dawn Gerber has been to meet her. | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
A recent study showed that women with young children do not slip | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
through the night. Researchers were at a loss to know why. They could | :18:04. | :18:12. | |
have asked me. Many women cannot relate to Sarah Jessica Parker's | :18:12. | :18:22. | |
:18:22. | :18:22. | ||
career - a career woman juggling her family. But the inspiration for | :18:22. | :18:31. | |
the film is nearer to home. I was travelling a lot. I would leave the | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
house at about 7:30am and I would get back at 8 o'clock at night. | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
Were was it like going to the premiere in New York and meeting | :18:39. | :18:46. | |
Sarah Jessica Parker? I mean, can you imagine anything more thrilling | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
than walking up a red carpet with Sarah Jessica Parker and watching | :18:51. | :18:58. | |
the film. There were moments really were incredibly emotional. There is | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
one moment where she sings down the phone to her child at home whilst | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
she is a way of working. I remember doing the same thing. And any | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
advice for today's Working Women? Sometimes you have to give yourself | :19:14. | :19:23. | |
a bit of slack. If the ironing doesn't get done or it is a baked | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
potato for supper, it is all right. I don't know how you do-it-. | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
don't know how she does it. somehow, we do. | :19:39. | :19:47. | |
Yes, I know the feeling! It is not for me to comment. We are going to | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
see Kylie soon, but first we are going to get the weather. | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
Tomorrow the record-breaking heat is going to feel like a forgotten | :19:55. | :20:04. | |
memory as we get cooler of temperatures. We have had warmer | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
air that has brought us above average, but behind it there is | :20:09. | :20:17. | |
colder air. Tonight, fairly breezy. We have also got some showery rain | :20:17. | :20:25. | |
arriving on that cold front. There are one or two heavier bursts on | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
the chart that will clear by early morning. Temperatures not dropping | :20:31. | :20:41. | |
:20:41. | :20:42. | ||
lower than about ten Celsius tonight's -- tonight. Tomorrow, the | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
cold front clears the way taking any patchy rain with it. Behind it | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
there will be colder air. Very breezy conditions and we could get | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
since -- some scattered showers. For most of us it will be a bright | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
sunny start, feeling chilly and then you will see the show was | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
starting to come through during the afternoon. Daytime temperatures, it | :21:08. | :21:16. | |
really quite a change. 15 Celsius, possibly 16. That is significantly | :21:16. | :21:26. | |
lower than where we were a few days ago. The breeze is moderate to | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
fresh, so some really strong gusts. There will be a scattering of | :21:30. | :21:39. | |
showers during the afternoon right across the region. This is how | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
Allah outlook is. We have got cool temperatures for the next few days | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
and windy conditions as well with a north-westerly breeze for Friday. | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
These are our daytime highs. We get some slightly warmer air for Sunday, | :21:55. | :22:03. | |
so we could get a high daytime temperature. With the overnight | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
temperatures we might just get our first touch of ground frost. | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
Back now to Kylie Minogue in Chelmsford. She's at Anglia Ruskin | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
University this evening to receive an honorary doctorate. The | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
university is home to the Helen Rollason Cancer Laboratory. Kylie | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
is being recognised for her work promoting breast cancer awareness. | :22:25. | :22:34. | |
Mike Liggins is at the University now. | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
Hello. Forgive me for whispering, but as you can see, we are right in | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
the middle of the degree ceremony now. Kylie is waiting patiently on | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
the front of the stage. She was a little late, but the degree | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
ceremony was start to start at 6 o'clock and Kylie did not turn up | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
until six. We have some pictures of her arriving, looking quite | :23:00. | :23:07. | |
different with her auburn hair. She had photographs taken with fans and | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
the Vice Chancellor. Kylie had breast cancer and number of years | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
ago and got heavily involved with the breast cancer awareness and | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
here at Anglia Ruskin university they are doing some cutting edge | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
research into breast cancer. This is the Helen Rollason Research | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
Laboratory which is part of the Postgraduate Medical Institute. | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
Helen was a BBC presenter who died of cancer in 1999. At the | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
Laboratory they take samples of tissue and blood from breast cancer | :23:39. | :23:47. | |
patients to look for markers to see how patients well react to | :23:47. | :23:56. | |
treatment. It is about targeting the treatment to the individual. | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
Jackie has supplied samples to the laboratory. She was diagnosed with | :24:01. | :24:10. | |
breast cancer in February last year. I did not cry at first, but I had a | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
few words, a few choice words with my surgeon. Deduce where the | :24:17. | :24:27. | |
:24:27. | :24:28. | ||
doctor? I did! -- did you? Jackie is now in remission and has raised | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
�20,000 for the Helen Rollason charity. She is a huge fan of Kylie | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
and or she has done for breast- cancer awareness. She has been a | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
rock. I do not know her, but she has helped me get through this. | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
you're hoping to meet her tonight? I hope so, yes. I would like to | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
have a picture taken with her. We have been through the same thing. | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
Tonight is about three women from different walks of life, but united | :25:00. | :25:09. | |
in a common cause - to fight cancer. As you can see, Kylie Wawrinka | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
quite a jaunty cap. She said when she walked in that she doesn't have | :25:14. | :25:21. | |
one like that in her wardrobe. Kylie is already an OBE and she is | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
going to become an honorary Doctor of Health Sciences. That is the | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
award she will get in about half- an-hour. She has created lot of | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
excitement in Chelmsford today. Earlier I spoke to some of the fans | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
waiting outside the main building here at Anglia Ruskin. I cannot | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
believe it. She looked so different in rely. She did, didn't she? | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
brown hair makes her look different. It is good for the students. They | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
cannot believe that she is here, especially in the ceremony. The | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
parents are proud and having her there as what is wonderful. | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
should just say we are hoping to get a word with Kylie after the | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
ceremony and that will be on our late bulletin at 10:30pm and our | :26:12. | :26:17. |