30/09/2014 Look East - West


30/09/2014

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things turning cooler and more blustery. Thank you very much. That

:00:00.3:59:59

is all from us. The billion pound question, who will

:00:00.:00:18.

be taking care of health care in Cambridgeshire? Health care is not a

:00:19.:00:25.

business, it is about looking after people and people's welfare, and

:00:26.:00:28.

that has to come first. The major study that offers hope to

:00:29.:00:31.

thousands of mums at risk of stillbirth.

:00:32.:00:35.

We will be here later in thd programme as they new look

:00:36.:00:39.

Antarctica hits the Times Atlas A Cambridge scientist has cre`ted a

:00:40.:00:45.

map of the continent without the ice sheets.

:00:46.:00:47.

And, from the front line to the water line, how one young w`r

:00:48.:00:48.

veteran is making waves. It's a contract worth almost

:00:49.:00:57.

?1 billion, and it'll decide who takes charge

:00:58.:01:00.

of elderly care in Cambridgdshire. The commissioning group which holds

:01:01.:01:03.

the reins says outsourcing will improve patient care,

:01:04.:01:06.

but campaigners say it's silply the The winner will be named tolorrow

:01:07.:01:09.

morning, but what does it all mean for thousands of older people

:01:10.:01:16.

in the county. At ?800 million,

:01:17.:01:17.

this could become the biggest health contract in England to be awarded to

:01:18.:01:26.

a private company. The winning bidder will provide

:01:27.:01:29.

a range of health services, including things like distrhct

:01:30.:01:32.

nurses, physiotherapists and mental health care, mainly for

:01:33.:01:34.

older people, in Cambridgeshire Three organisations have

:01:35.:01:38.

made it to the shortlist. Virgin Care, a private comp`ny,

:01:39.:01:44.

Care for Life, a bid led And, Uniting Care Partnershhp,

:01:45.:01:48.

formed The decision is

:01:49.:01:52.

down to the Cambridgeshire `nd Peterborough Clinical Commissioning

:01:53.:01:57.

Group, which is made up of local They decide where and how hdalth

:01:58.:02:00.

care is provided in this arda. They say their aim is to improve

:02:01.:02:05.

quality of care, while at the Because with more people living

:02:06.:02:08.

longer, there's an increasing demand for services, but lilited

:02:09.:02:14.

funding to pay for them. It is among the most import`nt

:02:15.:02:21.

health services to get right. The care of elderly,

:02:22.:02:23.

often vulnerable, people. The idea is that providing better

:02:24.:02:25.

care at home reduces the nedd Better for the patients thex say,

:02:26.:02:28.

as well as saving money. But some fear this landmark

:02:29.:02:37.

contract, the biggest of its kind, would have a negative impact

:02:38.:02:39.

on care. A protest outside the headqtarters

:02:40.:02:41.

of the clinical commissioning group Campaigners say their petithon has

:02:42.:02:44.

gathered over 5000 signaturds. Our concern is that by definition it

:02:45.:02:58.

almost doesn't matter which private company it is, they have to put

:02:59.:03:03.

their shareholder's interests first. Health care is not a business, it is

:03:04.:03:08.

about looking after people, and people's welfare that has to come

:03:09.:03:09.

first. Private companies already provide

:03:10.:03:11.

some health services in this county. Hinchingbrooke Hospital bec`me

:03:12.:03:13.

the first in England to be privately Spending was brought under control

:03:14.:03:16.

and it was seen as a success. But this week a letter

:03:17.:03:20.

from inspectors revealed serious concerns about the treatment

:03:21.:03:23.

of patients and staff. Yet some see this contract

:03:24.:03:26.

for elderly care as a chancd to make People don't get the best lhnk ups

:03:27.:03:41.

between community care, mental health care, social service care. We

:03:42.:03:45.

can bring it all together, `nd make it so people don't need to know

:03:46.:03:49.

which particular bit of the NHS provides the service, but they will

:03:50.:03:52.

get the service when they nded it. I think the dead from Addenbrooke s

:03:53.:03:55.

Hospital and the mental health trust is the best for these purposes.

:03:56.:03:58.

The decision is being made behind closed doors because

:03:59.:04:00.

The winning bidder will be revealed publicly tomorrow, and will take

:04:01.:04:04.

Next, how research carried out in one of our hospitals could lead

:04:05.:04:10.

the way in preventing stillbirths across the UK.

:04:11.:04:13.

We have one of the worst rates of stillbirths in the developed world.

:04:14.:04:16.

And here in the East 350 babies were stillborn last year alone.

:04:17.:04:19.

Now the Rosie Maternity Hospital in Cambridge has been involved

:04:20.:04:21.

In a moment we'll be talking to the man behind that research,

:04:22.:04:30.

Professor Gordon Smith, but first this report from Anna Todd.

:04:31.:04:36.

Filmed for BBC1's Panorama programme last night.

:04:37.:04:39.

These parents bond over the babies they lost.

:04:40.:04:43.

Tiny beings who were perfectly formed.

:04:44.:04:46.

but in the final weeks, something went drastically wrong.

:04:47.:04:56.

First of all we saw a midwife who tried to strap me up to listen to

:04:57.:05:03.

the heartbeat externally, and she couldn't. She did not flap. She said

:05:04.:05:11.

Wright, OK, let's get you scanned. Then I don't really remember very

:05:12.:05:16.

much. Before that, you are so excited, you have got so much hope.

:05:17.:05:21.

I was going to be a stay at home dad with Katie, so my life was `bout to

:05:22.:05:29.

change, for me in a really positive way and in a blink it had all gone.

:05:30.:05:32.

Absolutely devastating. There is already rigorous

:05:33.:05:35.

technologically advanced tests for Down's Syndrome, but sthllbirth

:05:36.:05:37.

screening is based on a tapd Last year, out

:05:38.:05:40.

of 700,000 babies born nationwide, But 350 of those babies werd

:05:41.:05:47.

stillborn, and 90% of those babies Most of

:05:48.:05:53.

the mothers experienced completely Doctors are now asking the puestion,

:05:54.:06:01.

could these deaths be avoiddd? In the womb, the baby receives food,

:06:02.:06:18.

nutrients and oxygen from the placenta. If there is a problem and

:06:19.:06:23.

the blood flow is abnormal, the baby's growth is likely to slow The

:06:24.:06:29.

challenge is to spot which babies are struggling, and save thdm before

:06:30.:06:30.

it is too late. Researchers at

:06:31.:06:31.

Addenbrooke's Hospital are looking at whether ultrasound scans

:06:32.:06:35.

and blood tests combined might provide valuable information about

:06:36.:06:37.

a placenta's functionality, and They say

:06:38.:06:39.

if they knew earlier that something was going wrong they could deliver

:06:40.:06:46.

the baby a couple of weeks darly Professor Gordon Smith joins us this

:06:47.:07:09.

evening. To hear that 90% of these lives could have been saved must be

:07:10.:07:13.

the most heartbreaking thing to hear for parents who have lost a child.

:07:14.:07:18.

Is it really the case? More than 90% of the babies are structurally

:07:19.:07:22.

normal, they don't have somd lethal congenital absolutely. Dash`macro

:07:23.:07:30.

abnormality. Really what we are working on is to try and develop

:07:31.:07:34.

better methods of identifying which babies are vulnerable and hhgh risk

:07:35.:07:40.

so we can target care, but ht is not straightforward, to look at large

:07:41.:07:43.

numbers of very healthy womdn and identify the relatively small number

:07:44.:07:46.

who are at high risk of convocations. Why is it, th`t the UK

:07:47.:07:53.

has made great medical advances in some areas, is so far behind other

:07:54.:07:56.

countries when it comes to stillbirth? It is a more difficult

:07:57.:08:00.

question to answer than you might think. The UK is in the lowdr end of

:08:01.:08:07.

the range with stillbirth in Europe, but Norway uses the UK guiddline for

:08:08.:08:14.

antenatal care and has the lowest rate of stillbirth. Is it shmply a

:08:15.:08:18.

variation in care that we are doing something different to them, but

:08:19.:08:22.

actually Norway uses the sale guidelines as ours. There is not an

:08:23.:08:26.

obvious reason, and that is one of the motivations for focusing our

:08:27.:08:30.

research will stop but when it comes to monitoring a baby's growth, there

:08:31.:08:34.

are blood test and scams, btt we also use a tape measure. Is it time

:08:35.:08:41.

that we were a bit more progressive. The tape measure is limited in what

:08:42.:08:44.

it can achieve. I really fedl that the basis for making inroads into

:08:45.:08:48.

this is to combine the information we can get from measuring the size

:08:49.:08:51.

of the baby, the blood flow measurements that we can make in a

:08:52.:08:55.

ultrasound scan, and combind these with measurements we can make from

:08:56.:09:02.

the mother's blood regarding proteins. Stillbirth is anything

:09:03.:09:06.

after 24 weeks, and at the loment there is no scam after 24 wdeks

:09:07.:09:11.

Routine scanning is at 12 wdeks and 20 weeks. Thereafter, the t`pe

:09:12.:09:15.

measure measures the size of the bump. We want something mord

:09:16.:09:20.

informative. Briefly, you are in the early stages of this. What have you

:09:21.:09:25.

found so far? At the moment we are looking at the ultrasound

:09:26.:09:28.

measurements. That is the process of analysis. We have 17,000 salples,

:09:29.:09:34.

and we are making measurements of proteins of these samples. Over the

:09:35.:09:39.

next year we will combine these with the scan information we alrdady have

:09:40.:09:44.

and see what we can detect hn terms of identifying growth restrhction.

:09:45.:09:48.

It is a devastating thing for patients and parents to go through,

:09:49.:09:49.

thank you for joining us. The Luton and Dunstable guided

:09:50.:09:52.

busway project is to be invdstigated by the National Audit Officd

:09:53.:09:55.

after reports that potential passenger numbers were infl`ted to

:09:56.:09:57.

attract more government funding The busway is now a year old

:09:58.:09:59.

and carrying fewer than 4000 people The original business plan

:10:00.:10:02.

predicted around 9,000 passdngers. The Taxpayers Alliance has described

:10:03.:10:06.

the situation as "disgraceftl", A ?90 million project that fell

:10:07.:10:10.

well short of its own predictions. The original business plan

:10:11.:10:17.

anticipated 9,000 trips a d`y. Then came the frank admission

:10:18.:10:19.

of a councillor ` that the numbers were exaggdrated to

:10:20.:10:31.

secure government funding. You always pump up the figures, as

:10:32.:10:47.

much as anything else. I did not need you would do that. Of course

:10:48.:10:51.

you do it. You embarrassed to the government when you are tryhng to

:10:52.:10:55.

get ?80 billion? Of course xou do. I am so naive. Today, and apology I

:10:56.:11:02.

must apologise. It was my f`ult for concentrating on the most optimistic

:11:03.:11:05.

figures of 3 million. The btsiness case was actually three different

:11:06.:11:09.

figures. The pessimistic, the most likely, and the optimistic figures.

:11:10.:11:15.

I think if we stick with thd most likely case, we are certainly on

:11:16.:11:20.

target. I apologise again, ht was not my intention to mislead anyone.

:11:21.:11:22.

That's something the Taxpayers Alliance has todax

:11:23.:11:24.

We understand Margaret Hodgd has now asked the National Audit Office to

:11:25.:11:43.

look into the matter and report back to her.

:11:44.:11:47.

Only last week, the busway celebrated its first anniversary.

:11:48.:11:49.

Despite the revelations its use is to be extended to include

:11:50.:11:51.

a service to Leighton Buzzard and Milton Keynes.

:11:52.:12:01.

It's the last day for peopld in Northamptonshire

:12:02.:12:03.

and Buckinghamshire to have their say on the compensation scheme

:12:04.:12:06.

for those living close to the proposed HS2 railway line.

:12:07.:12:09.

Campaign groups claim more than a 170,000 homes are blighted

:12:10.:12:11.

by the route, but only 3,000 are likely to get compensation.

:12:12.:12:16.

Work on the ?43 billion project should start in 2017.

:12:17.:12:20.

The deadline for comments is just before midnight tonight.

:12:21.:12:39.

The stunning maps that show us what the poles would look

:12:40.:12:48.

And, from the front line, to the waterline.

:12:49.:12:51.

How one young war veteran is making waves.

:12:52.:13:11.

Since 2001, thousands of soldiers and aircrews from this region have

:13:12.:13:14.

served and fought in Afghanhstan. Nearly 70 lost their lives, and

:13:15.:13:17.

hundreds more suffered terrhble injuries from bombs and minds. But

:13:18.:13:19.

now, the UK mission is almost over. Our defence reporter Alex Dtnlop has

:13:20.:13:22.

been to Afghanistan, to see the drawdown for himself. In thd first

:13:23.:13:25.

of three special reports, wd focus on the Tornado jets from RAF Marham

:13:26.:13:28.

in Norfolk, which have been there for five years.

:13:29.:13:30.

Every day and night, they start up and move out. By Christmas, the

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region's tornadoes will fly their last from Kandahar. They have been

:13:38.:13:45.

here more than a decade. 31 Squadron will be the last to leave.

:13:46.:13:52.

Don't be false by the relaxdd banter, Jamie and his fellow airmen

:13:53.:13:56.

could be scrambled within mhnutes. We need to keep on our game but at

:13:57.:14:01.

the same time force ourselvds to relax so we are not burnt ott when

:14:02.:14:06.

the time comes. This may be a drill, but two

:14:07.:14:13.

tornadoes are always primed for take`off within minutes.

:14:14.:14:18.

It takes 45 minutes to cross Afghanistan but with top ups from

:14:19.:14:22.

tankers each can last up to eight hours.

:14:23.:14:26.

Meanwhile, in the heat of the hangars, a huge team of enghneers

:14:27.:14:31.

work in temperatures reaching 5 Celsius, to keep these plands in the

:14:32.:14:34.

air. It can be complex. There ard better

:14:35.:14:42.

systems out there. It still does the job.

:14:43.:14:53.

On his first tour, he got bombed `` bombs on insurgents.

:14:54.:14:59.

We are more likely to use mobile weapons.

:15:00.:15:12.

This is no weapon of choice? The role of reconnaissance fills the

:15:13.:15:18.

gap. The high`tech cameras can detect disturbed earth by a bomb is

:15:19.:15:24.

buried, or even innocent activity near a mosque. Jack is lookhng for

:15:25.:15:29.

signs of a drugs factory. In these areas, you can see these

:15:30.:15:40.

are normal food crops. Coffdy feels `` you have to know where you are

:15:41.:15:44.

looking, the cultural background of that country, to know their normal

:15:45.:15:47.

pattern of life. A lot of the time what you `re

:15:48.:15:53.

analysing is not suspicious. Most of the time, no. It is rare to

:15:54.:15:59.

see other activity. It is poignant 31 Squadron should be

:16:00.:16:05.

the last to be deployed herd. Afghanistan is a part of its long

:16:06.:16:09.

history. At the end of the First World War, 31 Squadron was deployed

:16:10.:16:16.

here in 1990 as part of a British campaign against Afghan rebdls.

:16:17.:16:23.

You must have learned so many lessons from this?

:16:24.:16:29.

It has been an immensely beneficial learning experience, working with

:16:30.:16:32.

coalition partners, particularly in Kandahar, how to support thd army

:16:33.:16:42.

better. Those lessons will be carried forward into other

:16:43.:16:45.

operations. Before this operation has drawn down, another one 140

:16:46.:16:47.

miles away over Iraq is drawing in the ageing tornadoes.

:16:48.:16:52.

This adaptable aircraft has fought in two Gulf wars and could be flying

:16:53.:16:54.

into a third. And tomorrow,

:16:55.:16:57.

Alex looks at the massive logistical exercise to pull out our colbat

:16:58.:17:03.

troops and equipment, after more The latest tourism figures `re out,

:17:04.:17:06.

and have been described as Here in the East, 200,000 pdople

:17:07.:17:11.

work in the industry, ?6.2 billion goes into our dconomy

:17:12.:17:15.

from tourism every year, and the So far this year, visitor ntmbers

:17:16.:17:19.

are up, and they are spending more. This, from our chief reportdr,

:17:20.:17:25.

Kim Riley. Another beautiful morning in the

:17:26.:17:40.

forest on the Norfolk Suffolk border, the gateway to woodland

:17:41.:17:44.

trails looked after by the Forestry Commission.

:17:45.:17:52.

In terms of visitor numbers, it is a special year, attendance is on

:17:53.:18:02.

target to reach 400,000. A fantastic year. Superb we`ther,

:18:03.:18:08.

the best on record, 33% up on the previous four year average.

:18:09.:18:12.

promenade at Southwold visiting `` promenade at Southwold visiting ``

:18:13.:18:13.

and a weak sunshine that thhs is worth an extra ?80 million to

:18:14.:18:18.

tourism industry. The peer was taken over last year and it has bden

:18:19.:18:22.

pulling in the crowds. We are obviously affected bx the

:18:23.:18:27.

weather. We did lose a little in August. September has been `mazing

:18:28.:18:30.

for us. The incredible creation Tour appear

:18:31.:18:38.

like no other. This couple from London are on their first vhsit

:18:39.:18:43.

We have been to others but this is very striking, I like it. It is very

:18:44.:18:51.

special. People have very fond memories.

:18:52.:18:54.

In Essex, the county benefited from the arrival of the Tour de France in

:18:55.:18:57.

July. We saw so many people lining the

:18:58.:19:03.

streets. The weather helped stop it put us on the international stage.

:19:04.:19:09.

Everyone saw Essex in its bdst light. People have said thex did not

:19:10.:19:13.

realise Essex was like that, so rural, so much to see.

:19:14.:19:18.

At Whipsnade the Khutsishvili they have welcomed half a million

:19:19.:19:22.

visitors so far. We put a lot of that down to the

:19:23.:19:33.

weather being so great. It has been prolonged this year, summer has

:19:34.:19:39.

extended into September which helps. Reports say the Julie of thd final

:19:40.:19:44.

section of the A11 will givd a boost to attractions.

:19:45.:19:56.

Short breaks are on the up. And with the sunshine, has come

:19:57.:19:57.

The ice in the Antarctic is very, very thick.

:19:58.:19:58.

In places, it's more than 4,000 metres deep.

:19:59.:20:00.

And, for years, no`one knew what the landscape looked like underneath.

:20:01.:20:05.

But, thanks to a scientist at thd British

:20:06.:20:08.

Antarctic Survey in Cambridge, we now have some stunning m`ps.

:20:09.:20:11.

And now, for the first time, they've been published in The Times Atlas.

:20:12.:20:14.

A map now printed in the most prestigious atl`s of

:20:15.:20:36.

The map is made using satellite data, radar from aircraft,

:20:37.:20:56.

It really shows important science on a global level.

:20:57.:21:04.

Being in the Times Atlas shows growing

:21:05.:21:06.

recognition of the importance of this landscape under the ice

:21:07.:21:09.

Although it is totally inaccessible and we can never visit it, ht plays

:21:10.:21:14.

an important role in controlling global sea level, and which parts of

:21:15.:21:17.

Hidden under the ice, mountain ranges.

:21:18.:21:21.

And valleys, some of the dedpest on the globe.

:21:22.:21:32.

This is a 3D model of the continent with ice stripped

:21:33.:21:35.

The dark blue is the deep sda, the light blue where

:21:36.:21:38.

The red tops are the tips of the mountain ranges.

:21:39.:21:41.

By knowing where the bed rock begins, you can calculate how much

:21:42.:21:48.

ice there is which will potdntially help people calculate how qtickly

:21:49.:21:50.

the ice is melting and how far the levels may rise

:21:51.:21:57.

How the subsurface reacts to the ice controls how vulner`ble

:21:58.:22:00.

If ice melts in Antarctica, it raises sea levels globally.

:22:01.:22:07.

After a century of explorathon, some of the mysteries

:22:08.:22:09.

of this continent have now been uncovered by an extraordinary map.

:22:10.:22:19.

We've already heard tonight about the soldiers and airmdn

:22:20.:22:21.

from this region finally pulling out of Afghanistan.

:22:22.:22:25.

Owen Pick from Suffolk servdd there with the Royal Anglian Regilent and,

:22:26.:22:27.

in 2010, he had his right ldg amputated below the knee after

:22:28.:22:32.

But Owen refused to let the injury beat him.

:22:33.:22:42.

Instead, he set his heart on becoming a champion in the sport

:22:43.:22:42.

of wakeboarding, and now he's one of the best in the country.

:22:43.:22:46.

For many ex`soldiers, the scars of war are hard to overcome.

:22:47.:22:55.

But for Owen Pick, his life has never been better.

:22:56.:22:58.

Some people think life changed in a bad way but, for me personally,

:22:59.:23:02.

If I hadn't have lost my leg, I wouldn't have

:23:03.:23:11.

the opportunity to do what H do now, and living this crazy life.

:23:12.:23:12.

Owen has the wakeboarding btg, pulled along by a cable,

:23:13.:23:15.

Amazingly, he has only been doing it three years, after his mhlitary

:23:16.:23:20.

This is just after our homecoming parade.

:23:21.:23:24.

It was nice to be there and receive my medal.

:23:25.:23:31.

Three months into his first tour of Afghanistan, aged just 18, Owen

:23:32.:23:34.

stepped on an explosive devhce, shattering his right leg and foot.

:23:35.:23:36.

He took the difficult decishon finally to have his right ldg

:23:37.:23:40.

When all the boys came back from Afghan, I sat

:23:41.:23:57.

I was having bad nightmares, I didn't remember.

:23:58.:24:00.

My mind was telling me what had happened.

:24:01.:24:02.

He didn't get sad about it, or upset about it.

:24:03.:24:11.

Which I think is a really ilportant thing to do

:24:12.:24:24.

You can dwell on it or get on, and Owen is a person who gets

:24:25.:24:29.

Owen is 23 and swaps coaching sessions for free training time

:24:30.:24:34.

It helped him to finish inside the top ten

:24:35.:24:45.

at national championships, competing alongside able`bodied athletes.

:24:46.:24:51.

But there is something else, his big goal, a four`year journey to

:24:52.:24:58.

My aim, personally, is to bring back the first gold for Britain

:24:59.:25:05.

The next four years of training will be building up to

:25:06.:25:11.

the Paralympics, and in 2018 going there and hopefully winning.

:25:12.:25:11.

Next week, Owen swaps wakeboarding for snowboarding in Austria.

:25:12.:25:11.

Winter training starts with the British ski team.

:25:12.:25:12.

You get the feeling there is a lot more to come from Owen Pick.

:25:13.:25:20.

You were saying you would lhke to have a go at that!

:25:21.:25:46.

It has been the driest Septdmber since records began in 1910. There

:25:47.:26:37.

is some rain in the forecast moving into October, but not a gre`t

:26:38.:26:46.

we have had some lovely sunshine across the region. There is a

:26:47.:27:04.

weather front bringing more cloud and some patchy rain but not a great

:27:05.:27:06.

deal. A largely fine end and clear skies

:27:07.:27:08.

to start the night. The clotd is well broken but it will turn misty

:27:09.:27:09.

with a phew fog patches and increasing amounts of cloud bringing

:27:10.:27:11.

patchy rain. Some of us may stay dry through the night. Mild oncd more,

:27:12.:27:13.

temperatures, 14 degrees. It means this weather front will

:27:14.:27:14.

linger first thing. A cloudx start with patchy rain first thing. It is

:27:15.:27:16.

looking better in the second half of the day with the prospect of

:27:17.:27:18.

brighter weather once this weather front is out of the way.

:27:19.:27:20.

It may linger over eastern counties. Elsewhere, the cloud will break and

:27:21.:27:24.

we will see some sunshine in the afternoon.

:27:25.:27:26.

In the sunshine, temperaturds will reach 20 Celsius.

:27:27.:27:28.

A light wind tomorrow. It is looking largely drive for the afternoon with

:27:29.:27:30.

the chance of the odd shower developing, particularly across

:27:31.:27:31.

western counties. A look ahead to the rest of the

:27:32.:27:32.

week. A few shifting patterns. This weather front is pushing in late on

:27:33.:27:34.

Friday. That means it will turn things quite breezy by the dnd of

:27:35.:27:36.

the week. Behind it, cooler air By the weekend, cooler temperatures,

:27:37.:27:38.

but brighter weather. Before then, cloudy at times, some

:27:39.:27:39.

brighter spells on Thursday, a few showers on Thursday and Friday with

:27:40.:27:41.

a lot of cloud around. Tempdratures staying above average.

:27:42.:27:41.

Quite a bit The stage is set for the

:27:42.:27:56.

Party Conference Season 2014. Stay with BBC News

:27:57.:28:00.

for the key moments, including Conservative Party leader

:28:01.:28:02.

David Cameron's speech. On BBC TWO and with ongoing

:28:03.:28:06.

coverage on Radio 5 Live. The Party Conferences 2014,

:28:07.:28:10.

as they happen. There's so much more

:28:11.:28:17.

to this story than I thought. ..and even murder.

:28:18.:28:25.

With a knife!

:28:26.:28:28.

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