22/10/1955 In Town Tonight

BBC Four Collections -

specially chosen programmes from the BBC Archive.

For this Collection,

Sir Michael Parkinson

has selected BBC interviews

with influential figures

of the 20th century.

More programmes on this theme

and other BBC Four Collections

are available on BBC iPlayer.

TRAIN SCREAMS ALONG TRACK

HORN BLARES

ENGINE ROARS

CHATTER AND FRANTIC TRAFFIC

MAN SHOUTS

MAN: Stop!

Well, once again we stop the mighty roar of London's traffic,

and from the great crowds we bring to you some of the interesting people

who've come by land, sea and air to be In Town Tonight.

'A well-known Italian opera and film star is visiting London.

'Tomorrow, he is to give a recital at the Royal Albert Hall

'and here he is talking to John Ellison. Tito Gobbi.'

Very nice to see you again, Mr Gobbi.

Thank you, it's good to be back in London again, and you know,

I am having such a wonderful time on my unexpected holiday.

Oh, yes.

Have you got your family with you?

Oh, yes, as usual, and my daughter is riding every morning in Hyde Park.

- Are you riding with her too? - Oh, yes.

I think it's a wonderful exercise, this riding,

and every morning I ride behind her in a taxi.

- In a taxi? - Oh, yes, in a taxi,

- but with open window. - Ah!

And I catch such a lot of fresh air, and I feel so well now,

I'd like to sing for you this aria

I left on the piano there, it's the Marriage Of Figaro.

It looks very old now, poor thing,

but it's the first piece of music I bought in my life.

- A long time ago? - Not very long!

I was just a little nipper!

So, I like it very much

and I hope Winifred Taylor will be able to read it.

MUSIC STARTS

# Non piu andrai, farfallone amoroso

# Notte e giorno d'intorno girando

# Delle belle turbando il riposo

# Narcisetto, Adoncino d'amor

# Delle belle turbando il riposo

# Narcisetto, Adoncino d'amor

# Non piu avrai questi bei penacchini

# Quel cappello leggiero e galante

# Quella chioma, quell'aria brillante

# Quel vermiglio donnesco color

# Quel vermiglio donnesco color!

# Non piu avrai quei penacchini

# Quel cappello, quella chioma

# Quell'aria brillante

# Non piu andrai, farfallone amoroso

# Notte e giorno d'intorno girando

# Delle belle turbando il riposo

# Narcisetto, Adoncino d'amor

# Delle belle turbando il riposo

# Narcisetto, Adoncino d'amor

# Fra guerrieri, poffar Bacco!

# Gran mustacchi, stretto sacco

# Schioppo in spalla, sciabla al fianco

# Collo dritto, muso franco

# Un gran casco, o un gran turbante

# Molto onor, poco contante

# Poco contante, poco contante

# Ed in vece del fandango

# Una marcia per il fango

# Per montagne, per valloni

# Con le nevi, e i solioni Al concerto di tromboni

# Di bombarde, di cannoni

# Che le palle in tutti i tuoni All'orecchio fan fischiar

# Non piu avrai quei penacchini

# Non piu avrai quel cappello

# Non piu avrai quella chioma

# Non piu avrai quell'aria brillante

# Non piu andrai, farfallone amoroso

# Notte e giorno d'intorno girando

# Delle belle turbando il riposo

# Narcisetto, Adoncino d'amor

# Delle belle turbando il riposo

# Narcisetto, Adoncino d'amor

# Cherubino, alla vittoria!

# Alla gloria militar!

# Cherubino, alla vittoria!

# Alla gloria militar! Alla gloria militar!

# Alla gloria militar! #

JOHN: Thank you very much indeed, Tito Gobbi. What's the hurry?

Thank you! I'm in a hurry because I have to sing

tomorrow at the Royal Albert Hall for a concert,

then I have to fly back to America

for the opening night for the opera season

in Chicago and then, you know, I don't like to be late.

- No, I'm sure you don't. Goodbye. - Goodbye, thank you.

'Four months ago, two English girls in Australia

'set out from Townsville, Queensland on a hitchhike to London.

'They've arrived in the In Town Tonight studio

'and here they are - Diana Williams, who's a nurse,

'and Eunice Royston-Gardner, who's a hairdresser.'

JOHN: Well, it sounds quite a trip.

Did you have to do some work on the way, Miss Royston-Gardner?

Yes, of course we had to, to make the trip.

First of all, I was a barmaid for a few days

and then later on I helped Diana

in a bush hospital nursing for a month

in Mount Isa in Queensland.

And what other jobs did you do, Miss Williams?

I did some apple-picking in Tasmania

and in Sydney I worked as a waitress in a hotel

and in Darwin I kept house for truck drivers.

JOHN: Where did you go when you left Australia?

Um, we went to Colombo by ship, calling at Indonesia on the way

and at Jakarta a young native gentleman

offered to buy us from our English escort

for a couple of calves' heads.

JOHN: What a sense of economic value, I would say, that he had(!)

Did you cross India?

Yes, mostly by train, third class, sleeping in the luggage racks

and staying up there most of the day.

- How did you get on with the people? - Oh, they were very kind indeed.

We had a chance to meet Mr Nehru in Delhi

and he was very charming and kind.

He'd just returned from his European trip

and he was feeling the heat more than we did at the time.

JOHN: Did you get into any tight corners over there?

Um, no not really, but we thought we had once.

We were passing through the Khyber Pass by local bus one night

and suddenly we were pulled up in the bus

by the local tribesman carrying a lantern

and taken to a nearby village and ushered through a hole in the wall,

and we began to wonder what was coming next.

Well, evidently, they'd never had any English women in their village before

and they just wanted to be hospitable

and see how we were and what we looked like.

JOHN: Did they show you back to the bus?

Yes, after about an hour and a half, the bus was still waiting

packed with chicken and people and goats, et cetera.

JOHN: Oh, fine. Was that the end of your adventures, Miss Williams?

Well, not quite, no.

In Baghdad, we nearly caused a riot by swimming in the Tigris.

JOHN: What was the matter with that?

English women in bathing costumes in Baghdad

was enough to nearly cause the riot,

and then we went on to Istanbul just after the riots there,

and in Greece we had many proposals of marriage on sight,

and then in France, in Marseilles, Eunice was offered the job

of a striptease artist in a nightclub for £5 a night.

I, of course, said no. I wonder now whether I should have said yes!

JOHN: Well, I should think you had your fill of adventures anyway

and thank you both for being so lucid about them.

Thank you.

'And now we come to our new feature, A Woman Wonders Why.

'In it, the interviewer seeks the feminine point of view.

'Seeking the point of view of a woman driver tonight

'is Yolande Turner from South Africa.

'She's talking to the organiser of the Motor Show

'which opened at Earls Court on Wednesday - Stanley Clark.'

- Good evening, Mr Clark. - Good evening.

I'm very pleased to meet you

and also I'm delighted to have you here this evening.

STANLEY: That's very nice of you.

I'm also pleased to see that this year

the Motor Show is a very feminine one,

and why is that?

Well, I think that a man is very brave today

if he doesn't buy a car without consulting his wife.

That's why the manufacturers have gone in more for the nicer colours

and more elegant lines, and, of course, also there are many gadgets

and accessories which we hope will appeal to the women.

Which is very nice. Of course,

- colour's so important, isn't it? - It is.

And I think the world today is more colour-conscious

than it's ever been before.

Eye appeal is certainly more important

- to a woman than speed. - Certainly.

Another thing I want to know from you is why is it that manufacturers

find it so important to make a car that goes 100mph?

Well, that does helps us tremendously in the export drive overseas

because they have roads over there

where those speeds can really be maintained with safety.

In this country, of course, the roads, at least very few of them,

will allow that sort of speed

- in comfort. - - No.

But it does create a fine reserve of power in an emergency.

Um, I know that everyone listening to me, at least all the women will agree

and I certainly find it, that getting into some of these small cars,

and even out of them is quite impossible in a tight skirt

and also sometimes quite embarrassing.

Well, we have to make small cars now through purchase tax,

of course, at the outset, and also the very high cost of petrol.

But the manufacturers make the doors as wide as they possibly can,

bearing your point in mind, and most doors are now...

There's an attachment on them

which prevents the door from banging against you

either while you're getting in

- or getting out. - Yes.

I suppose really, you should have come into the old, spacious days

when the limousines drove up to the mansions

and the guests stepped out with their hand outstretched!

Whereas today, of course,

I agree, there's a certain amount of wriggling backwards

and you don't know who's arrived.

I think the men possibly enjoy that, don't they?

- Well... - Personally, Mr Clark,

I'd like you to know that I do prefer to be driven by a man but I also

think women drivers are more cautious and careful, don't you agree?

Well, if you say cautious, they drive more slowly than men,

but I do think they lack concentration rather.

- Oh? - Mmm.

I think a man's able to put his business worries on one side

and concentrate on his driving, whereas very few women can do that -

they're always thinking of what they've got to get for dinner

and the little number they're having built for Ascot

or something like that.

- Of course, I can't agree with you! - They're most unpredictable.

Um, well, thank you very much. I'm afraid we've arrived at the point

where it's the masculine point of view

- and not the feminine one... - Oh, well, that's fine.

..as this interview started off,

but thank you for answering my questions, Mr Clark,

and thank you for coming along this evening.

I wish you every success

- for the Motor Show... - Thank you.

..and I do hope most sincerely that the car tax doesn't go up next week.

Oh, I hope that a million times more than you do!

- Thank you. - Good night.

'An international cabaret singer arrived by sea

'on Wednesday from New York

'to appear at the Astor on Monday.

'She's making her first broadcast

'in this country tonight - Cindy Parker.'

JOHN: I believe it's your first visit to this country too.

- Yes, it is. - Is there anything

you're wanting to do, particularly, while you're over here?

I would really like

- to see a cricket match. - You would?

You've arrived at the wrong time of the year for that,

you should have come in the summer. Why do you want to see cricket?

Well, I come from Boston and we have a cricket club there

but all I've ever seen is tennis matches.

JOHN: You'll have to come back in the summer, won't you?

Have you always been a singer?

Well, I started out as a dancer

which I took up after having polio when I was very young,

but then I switched to singing in high school.

- And you like singing? - Very much.

JOHN: You're going to sing tonight.

I am, I really like to sing on radio and television

because I can get comfortable.

- Oh, why, in what way? - I like to take my shoes off.

JOHN: Do you? Well, just take your shoes off if you feel like it.

Thank you, and I'd like to do You Go To My Head.

MUSIC STARTS

# You go to my head

# And you linger like a haunting refrain

# And I find you spinning round in my brain

# Like the bubbles in a glass of champagne

# You go to my head

# With a sip of sparkling burgundy brew

# And I find the very mention of you

# Like the kicker in a julep or two

# The thrill of the thought you might give a thought

# To my plea, casts a spell over me

# Still I say to myself Get a hold of yourself

# Can't you see that it never could be?

# You go to my head

# With a smile that makes my temperature rise

# Like a summer with a thousand Julys

# You intoxicate my soul with your eyes

# Though I'm certain that this heart of mine

# Hasn't a ghost of a chance

# In this crazy romance

# You go to my head

# You go to my head. #

JOHN: Thank you so much, Cindy Parker,

come back and see some cricket and don't forget your shoes.

'Last week, we heard a girl from Syria describe how,

'in her own country,

'a man may have many wives.

'Two young Oxford undergraduates who returned on Thursday

'from Portuguese Guinea on the west coast of Africa

'will tell you about a society where a woman may have many husbands.

'Michael Teague and Michael Crowder.'

JOHN: Where is this place, exactly, Mr Teague?

In the Bissagos Islands.

JOHN: And how does the system work, Mr Crowder?

Well, the women propose to the men

and the men have no option but to accept.

Once the woman has proposed to the man,

she takes him to her house, which she has built,

and he becomes her official husband.

However, in the meantime, she's allowed to have

as many unofficial husbands as she likes,

but if he starts doing the same with the other women of the tribe,

- he gets into a lot of trouble. - Yes.

But the woman, as soon as she tires of him,

just bundles out all his clothes and belongings outside the front door,

and when he comes back in the evening from the fields

and finds his possessions out there, he knows he's been divorced.

- Simple as that, eh? - Yes.

JOHN: Would you say the system works well, Mr Teague?

- Oh, it seems to! - Did anybody propose to you?

Oh, not to us, worse luck.

The very early accounts of the islands emphasise

that the Bissagos people looked upon white people

as objects of disgust rather than desire.

JOHN: Oh. What's the place like?

Rather like a South Sea island paradise -

golden sands, waving palm trees, hula-hula skirts.

The men lead a rather idle life.

They go in for a lot of carving, though, very good carvers.

In fact, their work is of a very high standard in West Africa.

JOHN: What else do they do?

Dancing, a lot of dancing, um, using animals as their main characters.

The bull is one of their popular characters

and they wear vast, big masks on their heads

of, er...carved wood with horns.

- Only a bull's head, Mr Crowder? - No, well, they have sharks' heads

and sometimes they dress up as snakes

but the bull's the most significant costume they wear.

Is that the only place you went to in Portuguese Guinea?

No, no, we went to the north of the colony as well

to photograph another unusual tribe

where the tribal sport there is wrestling,

but it's not wrestling amongst the men,

- it's wrestling amongst the women. - Oh.

Um, one grapples with the other,

seizes her, lifts her up, throws her on her back on the ground and then

- she's considered the winner. - Oh, the other one's had it!

May I ask, Mr Crowder, what the object of this trip was?

Well, um, nowadays, as everyone knows,

most undergraduates have to earn a bit of money

during the summer vacation to keep them during the following year.

Well, we tired of the idea of having to wait in Brighton

or take beach photographs in Southport,

and decided we'd go to Africa, and Michael did a lot of photography

and took about 1,500 photographs and I did some writing

and from that we hope to make some money

from selling them to various magazines.

I think it's a splendid idea, Mr Crowder, Mr Teague.

Was it a profitable trip?

Well, I don't think we shall starve!

'This week, the weather has given us some cause for complaint,

'but for our next visitor it's a welcome change

'and she's arrived home by sea

'from the Windward Islands in the West Indies,

'recently swept by the hurricane Janet.

'Mrs Betty Ross.'

JOHN: I should think you're very glad, Mrs Ross,

to be safely back home, aren't you?

I'm very glad indeed, the only thing is I've had to leave

- my husband behind. - Oh.

I've brought home the two children to school.

Never realised before what a wonderful asset a husband is

until I was coping with luggage

and trying to find somewhere for us to live.

- And did you find somewhere to live? - Temporarily, yes.

JOHN: Where were you living in the Windward Islands?

We were in Kingstown, St Vincent.

We had a house quite close to the sea.

JOHN: What about this hurricane, did you get much warning of it?

My husband telephoned in the morning to say there was a hurricane warning

but we knew from the sea and the sky that something was brewing.

It was all so still and terribly hot and breathless.

And the sky had a yellow look, like a London fog.

And then it started to rain and the wind started to blow

and we put up storm shutters,

and I suppose about seven o'clock at night it really started to build up,

the rain came down almost like a waterfall.

- How long did it last, Mrs Ross? - About seven hours.

And your children, were they frightened?

- No, they were quite indifferent. - Ha, just like children!

How did your house stand up to it?

It stood up to it very well,

it just sort of moved when the wind buffeted it,

it moved like concussion with bombs.

JOHN: What was the surrounding countryside like

when it was all over?

Well, such a lot of it was absolutely devastated,

banana plantations were destroyed, coconut trees uprooted

and the little peasants had their crops washed out of the ground.

They were quite homeless, it was quite frightening.

JOHN: Had you been in a hurricane like that before?

Yes, we were in the Jamaica hurricane in 1951.

That was worse for us because although the house was on piles,

the house was still flooded

and we were without food for about three days

until they had lorries come through.

Anyway, there was one bright spot

because a man waded through all the water

and asked my husband to cash a dud cheque for him.

My husband works in a bank.

Oh, that's a way of getting rid of a dud cheque, isn't it?

- Yes, it didn't work, though. - Well, I'm sure you'll find it

peaceful here in spite of the wind outside.

- I hope our weather... - Well, I really began to think

that we were in for another hurricane now I was home.

- Yes, well, thank you, Mrs Ross. - Thank you. Good night.

'We have received a letter from a Mr Angus McKechnie,

'an ornithologist who lives near Fort William, Scotland,

'criticising all the interviewing programmes he's heard and seen.

'The letter is so important and raises so many points of interest

'that our producer, Peter Duncan, is going to tell you about it.'

Mr McKechnie has sent the BBC a very long letter.

I'm sorry I haven't got time to read it all,

but the gist of it is that he says

he can do far better than any radio or television interviewer.

And that interviewers seldom, if ever, put people at ease.

Mr McKechnie goes on to tell us

that in his spare time he's a bagpipe instructor.

He also thinks that 20 years of teaching the bagpipes

will get rid of anybody's inhibitions.

He also wants to conduct a completely uninhibited interview.

Well, we've accepted Mr McKechnie's challenge,

and I'd like to introduce Mr Angus McKechnie.

How do you do?

Well, now I'd like to introduce Bill Travers.

Hello, Bill, nice to see you and thank you very much for coming along.

- It's a pleasure. - Well, Bill Travers

is one of the stars of the new Launder and Gilliat film, Geordie.

And he's very kindly consented to come along

and be a guinea pig in this experiment.

Perhaps it's just because in a couple of hours' time,

he'll be flying off to Hollywood.

Mr McKechnie, he's all yours.

- Right. - Good luck, Bill, you'll need it.

Well, Mr Travers, you've heard what I think of these interviews.

You see, I believe that the interviewer

and the person who's interviewed

ought to behave just exactly as they would behave

in their own sitting room in their own house.

Or, if you like, having a wee chat together in a bar, hmm?

- Yes. - Right, in that case,

have a wee drink, Mr Travers.

- No, thanks, I don't drink. - Eh?

No, thank you very much, I don't drink.

Come on, come on, come on, come on, have a wee drink.

No, thank you very much, I really don't drink.

Mr Travers, Mr Travers, please have a wee drink.

I'm awfully sorry, but I don't drink.

Well, hold it in your hand, then, or something, hold it in your hand.

ANGUS LAUGHS

Well, Bill, I think it would be less formal

if you and I were to call each other by our Christian names,

- don't you agree? - Yes. Yes, why not?

Why not? You see the main thing is for us to appear absolutely at ease,

you know, just to look absolutely natural and to relax.

To relax completely.

Cross your legs, Bill, cross your legs.

Yes, that's quite good. Well now, Bill,

much as I disagree with the well-worn approach in these programmes,

I suppose I am compelled to ask you, what brings you into town tonight?

Oh, I haven't come into town tonight, Angus.

- Eh? - No, I've been here all the time,

I live here.

I see. Well, anyway, Bill, I'm glad you got here in time

and I'm sure you're glad to be back in London

and have a good rest after all that filming you've been doing

- up in the Highlands? - Oh, I finished all that filming

- many months ago. - Eh?

Yes, I've had a holiday in Italy and I've done another film

- since I did Geordie. - Well, anyway, Bill,

I'm quite sure that you're glad to be back.

- Yes, but I just said... - Mr Travers...

Bill...

I'm sure you'll admit this is neither the time or the place

just to win a little argument.

After all, I've just said that you're glad to be back

and personally I'm quite sure that you are glad to be back.

That's all there is to it.

- Now, where were we? - Back.

Well, Bill, I've seen that film of yours, Geordie,

and I must say I liked, I liked the wee girl.

- Yes, yes, I liked her too. - And I liked the scenery.

Yes, I liked it very much.

Mind you, to be quite honest, Bill,

I thought it was a pity you were so tall.

You kept blotting out the view of Ben Lomond

a bit too much for my liking in the background.

Sorry if I got in the way

- of the view of the Highlands. - No, no, don't apologise, Bill.

After all, you had to play your part, I suppose,

but speaking as a fellow Scot...

Well, I'm not really a Scot, Angus. I'm a Geordie.

Yes, yes, we all know that you are Geordie, Bill.

No, no, that's where I come from.

Geordie came from Perthshire which is in Scotland.

- In the film, yes. - Isn't that what we've come here

- to discuss, Bill? - Yes, but I simply said

- I am not a Scot. - Look, Mr Travers...

..I've come all the way down from Fort William to interview you.

- I know this is unrehearsed... - I'm just pointing out

that I'm a Geordie.

Mr Duncan, how can I carry on if he keeps repeating the same

- meaningless things over and over... - I was born in Northumberland.

- I was born in Northumberland. - I don't... I don't give a...!

- I don't care where you were born... - PETER: Mr McKechnie?

- What is it, what is it? I'm busy. - I'm sorry,

- but your time is nearly up. - Eh?

- Your time is nearly up. - Oh, no.

You'll have to hurry, yes.

- Now see what you've done. - Well, it's just that, er,

Northumberland is the Geordie country.

Northumberland. Just as I was about to strike

a revolutionary note in radio and television interviews,

he has to go gallivanting off at a tangent

into Northumberland, Northumberland.

Why Northumberland, why not Timbuktu?

Well, I wasn't born in Timbuktu.

No, well, I wish you were there now, young man.

To think that I came all the way down from Fort William

to discuss his film and say how much I liked the wee girl.

I was even prepared at the start of this interview

to tell everybody I like you.

I hope to be forgiven.

I was even going to advise people to see the film

and I would have told them where they could see it.

If I could have got away with it.

But you, Mr Travers, you have deliberately, deliberately,

and I think maliciously, sabotaged this entire interview.

All right, all right, all right, I only hope that your film company,

Jaundice and Bilious or whatever you call them,

have taken note of the cavalier way

in which you have flouted their interests.

There's only one consolation about all this for me.

I never let on to anybody up in Fort William

that I was coming here tonight. Oh, no.

Anyway, up there, there are darn few television sets. Where's that bottle?

Well, Mr Travers, your time really is up now.

Thank you very much indeed, and thank you, Mr Angus...

Well, give him his real name,

he's Alastair Sim, as I'm sure you've all guessed,

and these two gentlemen are the stars of the film Geordie,

produced by Launder and Gilliat.

A most interesting interview, Mr Sim.

I think I'll have to learn the bagpipes by next week, won't I?

Well, so ends this week's In Town Tonight,

edited and produced by Peter Duncan.

We hope to bring you something interesting every week.

MAN: Carry on, London!

CHATTER AND RUMBLE OF TRAFFIC