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For most of us, Dame Judi Dench is M. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
For God's sake! | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
Just get out of the way! | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
-Don't you recognise the car? -Madam... | 0:00:13 | 0:00:16 | |
EXPLOSION | 0:00:16 | 0:00:17 | |
She transformed the role, | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
and helped bring James Bond into the 21st century. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
A lifetime of experience allowed her to create a very modern, | 0:00:28 | 0:00:34 | |
and very human, M. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
Judi has balls, M has balls. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
And she knows how to use them. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
You connect with her immediately when you see her on screen, | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
because there's a sort of joy, and there's this twinkle in her eye, | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
which is just sort of magical. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:50 | |
JUDI LAUGHS | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
Judi challenges you in an extraordinary, frightening | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
and exhilarating way, to be the very, very, very best that you can. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:02 | |
You've got to progress. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
You can't ever stand still. You can't go back. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
Besides Bond, Judi's shown the world how it's done | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
in independent film... | 0:01:11 | 0:01:12 | |
Should I smile or shall I be serious? | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
..Hollywood film, Shakespeare... | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
Drinks all round! | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
..modern theatre, TV sitcom, | 0:01:20 | 0:01:24 | |
musicals... | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
and even as a mouse. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
So confusing! | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
And then of course, there is her national treasure status. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:35 | |
She would say she doesn't enjoy being a national treasure, | 0:01:35 | 0:01:40 | |
which would be an absolute bloody lie. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
She loves it! | 0:01:43 | 0:01:45 | |
But beyond the Dame Judi we all think we know, | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
there is another Judi. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
Private, instinctive, enigmatic. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
I feel more comfortable when I'm dressed up as somebody else, | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
being somebody else, and talking. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
I find it difficult to go along as myself. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
I do think she's one of those people who expresses something in her art | 0:02:03 | 0:02:08 | |
that she cannot express in life. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
She'll enjoy making you laugh. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
AUDIENCE LAUGH | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
But equally, she's capable of making you cry, | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
and doing that turn on a sixpence. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
And you do feel that at that moment you've seen into the soul - | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
the real Judi. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
I think the real Judi dresses in leather | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
with metal spikes on it, | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
and screams punk rock all night | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
and annoys the neighbours, kills cats. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
In order to understand the real Dame Judi Dench, | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
we will explore some of the most powerful performances of her career. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:45 | |
Through them, we will uncover her secrets | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
and show why she is regarded | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
as one of the most versatile actors in history. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
Over 50 years ago, a young Judi was on her way | 0:03:13 | 0:03:18 | |
to one of the most memorable auditions of her life. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
Already a success at the Royal Shakespeare Company, | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
she had yet to make her mark in film. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
I went up about a film once, before I'd ever made a film, | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
and I went into a room and there were five big men there. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
They offered me a seat, and nobody said anything. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
This man looked at me for a long time, | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
and then he took a cigar out of his mouth, and he said, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
"Miss Dench, you have every single thing wrong with your face." | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
And I got up and I walked out of the room. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
# These boots are made for walking | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
# And that's just what they'll do | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
# One of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you... # | 0:03:52 | 0:03:58 | |
Oh, how history has proved that particular director wrong. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:03 | |
# Start walking... # | 0:04:05 | 0:04:06 | |
50 years after that audition, | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
Dame Judi Dench has become one of the most successful | 0:04:11 | 0:04:13 | |
and recognised actors in the world. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
This was in no small part due to her role in international espionage. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:22 | |
Who the hell do they think they are? | 0:04:24 | 0:04:26 | |
I report to the Prime Minister, | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
and even he's smart enough | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
not to ask me what we do. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:30 | |
Have you ever seen such a bunch of self-righteous, arse-covering prigs? | 0:04:30 | 0:04:34 | |
I didn't for a second ever imagine that I would play M. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:39 | |
And I was a huge fan of the Bond films. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
17 years, and did seven films, | 0:04:42 | 0:04:44 | |
and just the most glorious time. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
But Bond is only one part | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
of the story. Judi's real break in cinema | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
came on a low-budget film made for the BBC. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
Judi was in her 60s. | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
She openly confessed that | 0:05:06 | 0:05:07 | |
she was terrified about doing it, | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
and I said, "why?". It seemed... | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
improbable, given the breadth | 0:05:13 | 0:05:16 | |
and depth of experience that she'd had in her career. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:18 | |
And she said, "Because I don't trust that I'll know what to do." | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
My job was initially to try and engender confidence in her | 0:05:23 | 0:05:29 | |
that she could pull it off. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
The project definitely daunted her. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
It's your first real starring role in a movie, isn't it? | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
It is. It is. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:41 | |
Because you don't like films much, do you? | 0:05:41 | 0:05:43 | |
I don't know the business of it. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
I really rely very, very, very much on the director. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
I'm very, very unsure of myself in the movies, very. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
But if Judi was nervous, her co-star was terrified. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
Mr Brown, ma'am. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
She frightened the life out of me at first. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
Because, you know, she was such a giant of the business. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
And I said to John Madden, | 0:06:05 | 0:06:06 | |
"I'll do the part, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:07 | |
"but I want to meet her first." | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
We talked, and we found who we didn't like, | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
which I always find endears me to people, | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
if we are linked by people we loathe. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:18 | |
You know? | 0:06:18 | 0:06:19 | |
Billy Connolly played the part of John Brown, | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
who was to console the Queen | 0:06:25 | 0:06:26 | |
after the death of her husband, Prince Albert. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
Honest to God, I never thought to see you in such a state. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
You must miss him dreadfully. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
You do not... | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
He... | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
Get him out! Get him out! | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
Get him out! Get him out! | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
The first scene we did, | 0:06:55 | 0:06:56 | |
Queen Victoria burst into tears in the middle of it. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
And we did it 12 times, and she did it... | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
She burst into tears 12 times | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
and it blew me sideways. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
You know? That was the great reality of her. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
'My husband used to say, "You have a huge well of sadness in you. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:17 | |
' "An incredible kind of deep pit of something." | 0:07:17 | 0:07:21 | |
'And I suppose out of that pit came any grief | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
'that I showed as Queen Victoria.' | 0:07:24 | 0:07:26 | |
The film told the story of the friendship | 0:07:27 | 0:07:29 | |
and then deepening affection that developed | 0:07:29 | 0:07:31 | |
between Queen Victoria and Mr Brown. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
We were doing the Eightsome Reel in a scene in the castle, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
and she was directly opposite me. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:44 | |
And in the middle of the dance | 0:07:44 | 0:07:46 | |
I thought, "Oh, my God, she fancies me!" | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
"Judi Dench fancies me, what am I going to do?" | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
You know? I'm not that good at spotting that in a woman, | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
but I spotted it in lumps here. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
I thought, "Oh, Christ, how do I get out of this?" | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
And of course, she was acting. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
And she did fancy John Brown, | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
and suddenly the penny dropped in my head. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
And I began to act properly. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
It was one of the lessons of my life. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
She just gave it to me for free. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
Mrs Brown surpassed all expectations. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
Judi was nominated for an Oscar... | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
..and although she didn't win that time, | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
Mrs Brown was the beginning of a new era. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
Judi, the film star. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
REPORTERS CLAMOUR | 0:08:37 | 0:08:38 | |
My family, my family. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
There was an extraordinary story that she once told me. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
She'd gone to America to do | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
the pre-publicity | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
for Mrs Brown, in fact it was. | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
And she was being interviewed by the American journalists, | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
and they said to her, in all seriousness, they said, | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
"We all know you from the Bond films. So what did you do before?" | 0:09:03 | 0:09:07 | |
And that's sort of 40 years of a career. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
But you have to go, "Well, I've done quite a lot of Shakespeare." | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
Completely oblivious to the magnificence | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
that we've all been watching for as long as I can remember. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
What angel wakes me from my flowery bed? | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
For nearly 60 years, | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
Judi Dench has been first and foremost a Shakespearean actor. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
'Shakespeare has always been my passion.' | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
Therefore the winds, piping to us in vain, as in revenge, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
have sucked up from the sea contagious fogs... | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
'They're such wonderful parts.' | 0:09:44 | 0:09:46 | |
That Herod's head I'll have. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
I am a spirit of no common rate. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:52 | |
The summer still doth tend upon my state. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
' "The man who pays the rent," | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
'that's what Shakespeare was known as in our house.' | 0:09:58 | 0:10:02 | |
She does make it look absurdly easy. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
You do think it's just like breathing for her, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
speaking Shakespearean text. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
It just seems like she rolls out of bed and just does it, you know? | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
What she is masterful at is hiding how difficult it is. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
What comfortable hour canst thou name, | 0:10:16 | 0:10:19 | |
that ever graced me with thy company? | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
She has immense knowledge, immense technical craft, | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
but you are simply unable to see it. | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
But hard as it is to believe today, Judi's first role in Shakespeare, | 0:10:31 | 0:10:36 | |
aged just 18, was a disaster. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
I got cast as Ophelia straight out of drama school. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
Very, very lucky, but quite hard. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
Baptism of fire. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:49 | |
I tried every way to make her mad when she came to the mad scene. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
Now I know now | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
that I need have only chosen one thing | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
to convey to the audience her madness, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
and it would have been enough. You know, less is more. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
It's a very, very difficult thing to learn when you're a young actor. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:11 | |
There's no short cuts. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:12 | |
And it is something you have to learn by experience. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:16 | |
And I got terrible notices as Ophelia. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
I had to do an enormous swallow, | 0:11:21 | 0:11:23 | |
and...I could have been fired, and that would have been it. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
I don't know what would have happened. Anyway, it didn't matter, | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
because I played lots and lots and lots of Shakespeare, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
and so I did learn. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
-The elbow. -Oh, je m'en oublie! De elbow. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
When I was a little, little girl, | 0:11:42 | 0:11:44 | |
I'd seen my brother play Lady Macbeth at school | 0:11:44 | 0:11:49 | |
and my other brother was playing Duncan. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
I always remember he came in and said, "What bloody man is that?", | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
I said, I thought, "Oh!" I was about eight. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
I thought, this is thrilling. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
This isn't just Shakespeare, it's swearing, too. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
So the play must have been one of | 0:12:00 | 0:12:02 | |
the first Shakespeare plays I'd ever seen. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:04 | |
In 1976, Judi and fellow actor Ian McKellen asked | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
the director Trevor Nunn whether they could play the leading roles | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
in Shakespeare's bloody tale | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
of obsession and murder. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
I was immediately aware | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
that if Judi Dench and Ian McKellen worked on it, | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
then there was an extraordinary possibility to re-examine Macbeth. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:32 | |
And we went ahead | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
very much on a tide of | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
their joint energy. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
Great Glamis, worthy Cawdor. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:48 | |
Greater than both, by the all-hail hereafter! | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
Ian McKellen had worked with Judi once before. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
She famously arrives at the first rehearsal unprepared. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
But she's a quick study, and suddenly, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
somewhere in the middle of the first week, Judi became the character. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:08 | |
And she'd learnt the words, and she knew how she wanted to inhabit them. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:13 | |
And that can be alarming, | 0:13:13 | 0:13:14 | |
if you're still struggling | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
up your own mountain, | 0:13:16 | 0:13:17 | |
and you look up and there's Judi | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
at the top of hers, waving, "Come on up!" | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
Hail, king that shalt be. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
Hail, king that shalt be... | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
'Nothing happens by chance with Judi, she has worked it out.' | 0:13:27 | 0:13:30 | |
But when she works it out is a bafflement to me. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:35 | |
Judi discovered that Lady Macbeth | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
was not simply the embodiment of all evil. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
She wasn't simply someone who was off the rails. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
On the contrary, everything that goes wrong with her character | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
and her husband is rooted in their love for each other. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
Your face, my thane, | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
is as a book, | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
where men may read strange matters. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
To beguile the time, | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
look like the time. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
Bear welcome in your hand, your eye, your tongue. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
Look like the innocent flower, | 0:14:10 | 0:14:14 | |
but be the serpent under it. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
'I've just always believed that she was incredibly ambitious, | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
'not for herself, but for her husband. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
'So she pushes through the one deed which she thinks is going to be | 0:14:23 | 0:14:27 | |
'glory for them both for the rest of their lives.' | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
Will these hands ne'er be clean? | 0:14:30 | 0:14:35 | |
You were entirely taken into this woman's world. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
You identified with her needs and her passions and ambition. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:48 | |
And almost the only time | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
I thought, this play is a tragedy, | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
because this woman, essentially, | 0:14:53 | 0:14:56 | |
destroys herself and destroys her husband. | 0:14:56 | 0:15:00 | |
That's the extent that she transformed the play | 0:15:00 | 0:15:04 | |
and transformed the part. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
SHE MOANS | 0:15:09 | 0:15:11 | |
'Gradually the rift gets wider and wider between them. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:15 | |
'And that is, in a way, what she dies of, I think. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:21 | |
'There's nothing for her to live for. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
'And that's the tragedy of it.' | 0:15:23 | 0:15:25 | |
SHE WAILS | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
-Do the roles take you over? I mean... -No! | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
They don't? I mean, you don't walk around Sainsbury's as Cleopatra? | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
No! Tricky, actually. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
Tricky shopping. Tricky shopping when you come to play Lady Macbeth | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
-round Sainsbury's! -That keeps the old feet on the ground? | 0:15:50 | 0:15:52 | |
It certainly does, when you have the shopping list to do. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
Judi continues to play in Shakespeare. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
In early 2016, | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
she received a record eighth Olivier Award for her supporting role | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
in Sir Kenneth Branagh's The Winter's Tale. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
But the reason she has become one of the most versatile actors | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
of her generation is the fact that Shakespeare alone | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
was not enough for Judi. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
There was a boredom threshold with Judi. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
She says herself, she can get, "I've done that now, | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
"let's get on to something else." | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
# Come on, pretty baby Let's move it and groove it... # | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
SHE GROANS | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
Hey up. Hey! | 0:16:40 | 0:16:41 | |
In 1963, Judi was given a part in | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
an early episode of the BBC's Z Cars, | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
one of her first steps into the world of television, | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
and a very different medium. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:52 | |
They go for it, don't they? A bit of a punch-up... | 0:16:52 | 0:16:54 | |
-What's your name? -Judy Garland! | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
Judi had already made her mark in the theatre. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
-SHE SHOUTS -Hey, shut it! | 0:17:01 | 0:17:03 | |
She was beginning to be | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
talked about as potentially | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
a great young actor. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
When I first did television, I thought I'd never... | 0:17:12 | 0:17:16 | |
..come to grips with it at all. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
But John Hopkins wrote this quartet of plays | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
called Talking To A Stranger, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
about a family in suburbia. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
And Christopher Morahan was directing it. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:32 | |
Talking To A Stranger is very bleak indeed. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:40 | |
I think there are some actors | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
who would find it too frightening, | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
and wouldn't have been able to do that, | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
and that's why they weren't cast. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
But, I mean, Judi was | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
the most marvellously rich, | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
tough-minded actor. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:56 | |
'I use the fear, I think, because that creates adrenaline. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
'So you can use all that, because you'll need that anyway. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
'I don't know, I don't know about anything else. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:11 | |
'Except that, you know, I'm sure that every actor | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
'has that kind of fear. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:15 | |
'And it's not part of the deal to share it.' | 0:18:15 | 0:18:20 | |
Would you like to hear my life story? | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
No, of course you wouldn't. Everyone else has a perfectly good life story | 0:18:24 | 0:18:27 | |
of their own. Oh, I had such a happy childhood. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
Happy, happy, happy. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
The first time I saw Judi she was playing this very, | 0:18:31 | 0:18:33 | |
very troubled teenager. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:35 | |
Now, the conventional view would be that brilliant performance of | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
troubled teenager equals... | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
very disturbed childhood and teenage years. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:47 | |
-This is a family? -Isn't it? | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
The outward and visible maybe, if you don't look too closely. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
Now, with Judi, the reverse is true. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
Judi had a very happy, settled childhood. | 0:18:55 | 0:19:00 | |
Your childhood, of course, was in Yorkshire. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
Yes, I love it still. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
What were your early ambitions as a child? | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
My first ambition was to be the owner of a fish shop! | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
JUDI CHUCKLES | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
-Why? I mean... -Well, it's the feel and the look of it. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
And, very early on, I took some kippers from the fish shop. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:25 | |
-You mean you stole them? -Stole them. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
And my mother found out when we were... | 0:19:27 | 0:19:29 | |
She said, "You go straight back and take them back!" | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
Judi's father, Reginald Arthur Dench, was the local GP. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
But outside of the surgery, he had a variety of other roles. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
Here, he can be seen in a production of Dick Turpin, | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
starring alongside his wife and Judi's brother. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:57 | |
We had a big hamper, and we had all sorts of bits of things, | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
and we were always dressed up in costume. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
As a child, Judi was surrounded by theatre. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
Here she is seen playing an angel in the famous York Mystery Plays. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:13 | |
There was no pressure for her to become an actress. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
There was simply this extraordinary talent that she was nursing. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:22 | |
Her portrayal of life in a very different family to her own | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
would earn her a Bafta in her first major TV role. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:31 | |
Do you think you're so important? | 0:20:31 | 0:20:32 | |
I think anyone who needs something, anything, I don't know, God knows. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
Your friends think that's very funny, I suppose? | 0:20:35 | 0:20:37 | |
Look, once and for all, the friends I've got, I haven't got any. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
You put butter on that piece of bread, eat, | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
-and you still wouldn't choke on them. -Terry, be quiet. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:44 | |
Sweetie, I've only just started. | 0:20:44 | 0:20:45 | |
'I don't think we, as an audience in Britain,' | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
had seen a suburban family dissected, | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
and asked to be witnesses, | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
'in such a way before. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
'The rawness was palpable.' | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
Tonight? No, well, I can't, tonight. I... | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
No, I'm not busy, I just don't want to go out with you. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
Not tonight, not tomorrow night, not... | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
Well, you know what I mean. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
No, look, Chris, I had a dolly time, you're very sweet and all that, | 0:21:14 | 0:21:18 | |
and you'll make somebody a very nice...whatever the word is. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
Husband. I know that's not the idea, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
but it's what you're cut out for - ask your wife. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
'It would be very difficult to do a scene like that, | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
'the speech on the phone, because it is basically a monologue.' | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
Well, it's the only way I know how to talk. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:34 | |
What do you think, I put it on? Is that what you think? | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
To sustain that level of emotional connection, | 0:21:37 | 0:21:42 | |
'and to vary it all the time. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
'She'll laugh when it's unexpected, she'll be cynical | 0:21:45 | 0:21:49 | |
'when it's unexpected, and so on.' | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
You'll soon find a substitute - I could name a dozen. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
Come the dark, you won't even notice. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:58 | |
She has an instinctive empathy for more or less everyone she meets. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:06 | |
And certainly at the heart of her craft is a capacity to empathise | 0:22:06 | 0:22:13 | |
and fully comprehend the lives of people | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
who are quite distinct from her. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:20 | |
MUSIC: You Were Made For Me by Freddie And The Dreamers | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
-# You were made for me -You were made for me | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
# Everybody tells me so | 0:22:30 | 0:22:33 | |
-# You were made for me -You were made for me | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
# Don't pretend that you don't know... # | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
Judi's work in TV and theatre had brought critical acclaim, | 0:22:39 | 0:22:42 | |
but it was only after she met and then married | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
the actor Michael Williams that she found broad popular appeal. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
It was no surprise to anybody | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
that they just absolutely hit it off instantly. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:59 | |
They were absolutely the right... | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
size, the right optimism, | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
the right sense of humour for each other. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
And in 1981, Michael and Judi embarked together on a sitcom. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
Let's talk about you. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
Helen said you were a linguist. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:19 | |
It was to become a classic. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
No, I'm sure it's not. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
I mean, what are you translating at the moment? | 0:23:23 | 0:23:25 | |
A German textbook on urinary infections. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:23:28 | 0:23:29 | |
It was really good fun for her to be | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
able to work on something with Mike. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
She adored him. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:39 | |
-What about the bank? -I already owe them. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:42 | |
Well, owe them more. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
And, at the same time, it was financially rewarding. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
I don't know if you have any idea what you get paid as an actor | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
at the Royal Shakespeare Company in the National Theatre, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
but it's barely enough to support a family. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
But she also loved the fact that she had an audience exponentially larger | 0:24:02 | 0:24:07 | |
than anything she'd ever done before. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:10 | |
Many in the audience believed | 0:24:12 | 0:24:13 | |
they were getting a glimpse of the real Judi. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
The audience see her first of all as | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
someone rather ordinary, and... | 0:24:19 | 0:24:23 | |
..not unlike their sisters or people they know. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:28 | |
But suddenly they see some strange depth there, and they want to know, | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
-where did that come from? -Look. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
If you can get by without the sheer black nightie, | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
I can get by without the words. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
Do people expect you to be like | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
the character you play in A Fine Romance? | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
They do expect us to be like that | 0:24:47 | 0:24:48 | |
and they think that our lives at home are exactly like it. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:51 | |
It's not at all like us. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
But I think that the appeal of it is because it is more like real life, | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
in that it's more, life is more like having a dinner with somebody | 0:24:57 | 0:25:01 | |
and thinking how lovely you are, and you find there's spinach | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
on your tooth or egg all down your front. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
Why are you winking? | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
Do you know something about the food that I don't? | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
I've lost a contact lens. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
-Here? -Well, it must be here, it was in a minute ago. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
Well, where is it? | 0:25:20 | 0:25:22 | |
Why do people always ask that when you've lost something? | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
What's going on? | 0:25:34 | 0:25:35 | |
They sometimes drop down your front. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:38 | |
I think what was remarkable is that | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
neither Judi or Michael did what I'd describe as sitcom acting. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:59 | |
Look, if you, if you wiggle about a bit, I'll have a look on the floor. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:05 | |
Occasionally, there'd be pauses where one or the other | 0:26:05 | 0:26:09 | |
was just thinking and reacting, | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
and in the syntax of sitcom that's very, very bold stuff. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:19 | |
-Are you ready to order, sir? -No thank you, we're still deciding. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
'Judi would defer to Michael. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
'Michael was a very clever comedy actor.' | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
Michael would say, "You should | 0:26:30 | 0:26:31 | |
"have left a longer pause there | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
"before the punch line," and Judi | 0:26:33 | 0:26:34 | |
would say, "Yes, you're right." | 0:26:34 | 0:26:36 | |
So there was tremendous respect going between them. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
HE SCREAMS | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
You are a distinguished Shakespearean actress, | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
yet best known for a somewhat trivial television comedy. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:54 | |
Yes, and a lot of people say to me, "Is this the first job you've had?" | 0:26:54 | 0:26:57 | |
So it's very nice to reach an audience | 0:26:57 | 0:26:59 | |
who don't want to come and see Shakespeare, | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
but do want to sit and see you in their sitting-room. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:03 | |
But you don't feel, "Is this what all my training has been about?" | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
No, I don't, I like it a lot. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:07 | |
Because I like to do something that is the most unexpected thing. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:13 | |
Quick, hide! | 0:27:13 | 0:27:14 | |
SHE GASPS | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
TV sitcom remained a draw, and in 1992 she starred alongside | 0:27:17 | 0:27:22 | |
Geoffrey Palmer in the hugely popular As Time Goes By. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
At last, we've got a bit of weekend to ourselves. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:27:29 | 0:27:30 | |
It ran for a decade. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
-Wait! -What? -You've broken an ankle. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
I suppose it's pointless to ask why? | 0:27:39 | 0:27:41 | |
'Her success in popular shows is part of what makes her accepted | 0:27:41 | 0:27:45 | |
'as a national treasure.' | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
-Just limp! -Which leg? -Well, I don't know, just limp! | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
There are many very successful | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
sitcom actors of both genders, | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
but they haven't also been | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
very good as Lady Macbeth... | 0:27:57 | 0:27:58 | |
..or Sally Bowles in Cabaret. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:02 | |
# ..a chance | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
# Hush up, don't tell Mama | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
# Shush up, don't tell Mama | 0:28:09 | 0:28:11 | |
# Don't tell Mama whatever you do... # | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
I do like the challenge of something new. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:20 | |
I've always wanted to do a musical and everyone kind of says, | 0:28:20 | 0:28:23 | |
"Oh, get you," when you say musical. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:25 | |
But I want to have a go | 0:28:25 | 0:28:27 | |
and I want to have a great big orchestra and everything, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:30 | |
and a bit of dancing, | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
a bit of singing and a bit of acting. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
A chorus and all. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
I long for that, because that's a really different thing. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:40 | |
In 1968, Judi Dench starred as Sally Bowles in Cabaret - | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
a musical based in a seedy nightclub in '30s Berlin. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:50 | |
..doesn't even have an inkling. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
When she tries, as Sally Bowles, to hit the high note, | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
the character doesn't quite achieve it, but the actor does. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
It's a totally successful rendering of Cabaret. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:04 | |
No-one will ever sing it as well. Couldn't. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
# You can tell my papa that's all right | 0:29:08 | 0:29:10 | |
# Cos he comes in here every night | 0:29:10 | 0:29:12 | |
# But don't tell Mama what you saw. # | 0:29:12 | 0:29:17 | |
-We're in two. -We are in two. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
It would be almost 20 years | 0:29:19 | 0:29:21 | |
before Judi would return to the musical stage, | 0:29:21 | 0:29:24 | |
in Stephen Sondheim's powerful love story A Little Night Music. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:29 | |
What is it that you're trying to prove? | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
'I'm trying to prove that I'm worthy of another part | 0:29:32 | 0:29:36 | |
'coming up after the next one, you know. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
'Because people say all the time, "What are you going to do next?" | 0:29:38 | 0:29:40 | |
'I have no idea what I'm going to do next.' | 0:29:40 | 0:29:42 | |
You'll have to get through today. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:44 | |
Once we get today over, we shan't mind. | 0:29:44 | 0:29:46 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:29:46 | 0:29:47 | |
A Little Night Music centres around an actress, Desiree, | 0:29:47 | 0:29:51 | |
and I think she's your... | 0:29:51 | 0:29:53 | |
..absolute creature of the theatre | 0:29:54 | 0:29:56 | |
and Judi Dench had a very strong connection to that character. | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
The play tells of how Desiree's old lover Frederick, now married, | 0:29:59 | 0:30:03 | |
re-enters her life and how, after many years apart, | 0:30:03 | 0:30:06 | |
they fall for each other's charms again. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
-I apologise for all the squalor. -On the contrary. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:12 | |
I've always associated you, very happily, with chaos. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
When you said that time, "I apologise for all the squalor," | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
it was like, shall we now go into... | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
-It's going to be worse in there. -Yes. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
'It's hard to specify her techniques. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
'She rehearses in a way that you don't talk about it,' | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
you just do it, | 0:30:29 | 0:30:31 | |
and you do it differently | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
all the time. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:34 | |
Each time we got on our feet, | 0:30:34 | 0:30:36 | |
we did a different version of things and then, slowly, | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
the performance begins to coalesce of its own volition. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:44 | |
Still hungry as ever after a performance, I see. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
Worse. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
I'm a wolf. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:51 | |
Still hungry as ever as a performance, I see. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
Worse. | 0:30:53 | 0:30:55 | |
I'm a wolf. | 0:30:55 | 0:30:56 | |
Hungry as ever after a performance, I see. | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
Worse. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:02 | |
I'm a wolf. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
'Rehearsals is a time that you're allowed to make mistakes | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
'and try and make choices, to move your wings | 0:31:07 | 0:31:10 | |
'and to fly a little bit in certain directions.' | 0:31:10 | 0:31:13 | |
I peered and peered and thought, "Is it? | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
"Can it be possible...? Is it...?" | 0:31:15 | 0:31:16 | |
I thought, "Is it? Can it be? Could it...?" | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
I've got so much bread, it is terrible. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:25 | |
-It's terrible. -It's only to substantiate the line, | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
"I eat like a wolf." | 0:31:28 | 0:31:29 | |
'It's a very curious thing sometimes. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:32 | |
'You know that there is a laugh in a line. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
'Your instinct is entirely what tells you there's a laugh | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
'and sometimes you can't get it. In the play and the theatre, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
'you can't get it and can't get it. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:42 | |
'Quite suddenly, one night, you will get it.' | 0:31:42 | 0:31:44 | |
-Sandwich? -No. Hungry as ever after a performance, I see. | 0:31:46 | 0:31:50 | |
Worse. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:51 | |
I'm a wolf. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:53 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:31:53 | 0:31:55 | |
Sit down. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
'So much of being in the theatre is being part of a company.' | 0:32:00 | 0:32:04 | |
'I wouldn't even know who to rely on if it was on my own. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:10 | |
'You'd have none of those wonderful larks that go on sometimes | 0:32:10 | 0:32:13 | |
'in the dressing room. Or in a company of people.' | 0:32:13 | 0:32:17 | |
Oh, dear. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:19 | |
Judi likes to work and, actually, | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
I would put it more strongly than that. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:23 | |
She can't bear not to work. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:25 | |
Her particular demon is to be | 0:32:25 | 0:32:27 | |
left alone with nothing to do and | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
no ability to practise her skills | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
and I think she's scared witless by that idea. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
'Well, I don't have much quietness inside me.' | 0:32:36 | 0:32:38 | |
'I don't find it easy to sit still and do nothing. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:43 | |
'In fact, I can't do that. | 0:32:43 | 0:32:45 | |
'I'm not good at being passively quiet.' | 0:32:45 | 0:32:50 | |
# I thought that you'd want what I want... # | 0:32:50 | 0:32:54 | |
The emotional climax of the play is when Frederic tells Desiree | 0:32:54 | 0:32:58 | |
that he will not leave his wife. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
# But where are the clowns? | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
# Quick, send in the clowns | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
# Don't bother, they're here. # | 0:33:10 | 0:33:16 | |
I'm an actress who can put over a song. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
I wouldn't say sings but I would say could put over a song, | 0:33:18 | 0:33:22 | |
because I had to learn that in Cabaret. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
So it's just a matter of acting it. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
Do try to forgive me. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:30 | |
The opening night, | 0:33:37 | 0:33:38 | |
I was sitting next to Stephen Sondheim, the composer, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
and Stephen was leaning forward as she was singing, | 0:33:42 | 0:33:47 | |
and then turned to me and said, | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
"Well, that's why I like to write songs." | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
And for him, it was sublime. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:57 | |
It was perfect. | 0:33:57 | 0:33:59 | |
It was acted. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:00 | |
# Isn't it rich? | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
# Isn't it queer? | 0:34:07 | 0:34:09 | |
# Losing my timing this late | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
# In my career | 0:34:16 | 0:34:18 | |
# But where are the clowns? | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
# There ought to be clowns | 0:34:26 | 0:34:29 | |
# Well, maybe... | 0:34:32 | 0:34:36 | |
# ..next year. # | 0:34:38 | 0:34:44 | |
Her great gift as an actress | 0:34:44 | 0:34:46 | |
is making everybody feel that she's accessible to them, | 0:34:46 | 0:34:50 | |
but she's much more private | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
and there's a core of her that is hard to know | 0:34:53 | 0:34:58 | |
and, when you do know it, | 0:34:58 | 0:35:00 | |
you feel that there is something there | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
that is... | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
..a soul that is far from untroubled. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:10 | |
MUSIC PLAYS | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
'I love the theatre best. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
'And then I like television. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:21 | |
'Last, I like the movies.' | 0:35:21 | 0:35:23 | |
'The theatre, although it's the thing | 0:35:25 | 0:35:27 | |
'that takes the most energy out of you, | 0:35:27 | 0:35:29 | |
'it's the thing that gets the greatest rewards. You know? | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
'You can hear the audience reactions, you know. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
'You can hear if you need to kind of | 0:35:34 | 0:35:37 | |
'push the accelerator a bit or pull back the brake.' | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
Dominic, you've never seen my mother acting. | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
No, it must seem ridiculous. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:45 | |
I do know how famous you are, | 0:35:45 | 0:35:47 | |
but, by and large, my generation, we don't go to the theatre. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
To us, it doesn't seem relevant. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
No, well, why should it? I quite understand. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:54 | |
People say, "Oh, everyone should go to the theatre." | 0:35:54 | 0:35:57 | |
Why should they? | 0:35:57 | 0:35:58 | |
Amy's View was the story of Esme, an actress, | 0:35:58 | 0:36:01 | |
and her daughter Amy. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:03 | |
It followed their relationship over a quarter of a century. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:07 | |
Let's play to people who actually like it | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
and if there aren't very many, well, so be it. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
But don't come, please, because you've been told to. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:16 | |
That won't do at all. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:18 | |
When I wrote Amy's View, then Richard Eyre, | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
who was to direct it, | 0:36:20 | 0:36:21 | |
immediately said, "Well, | 0:36:21 | 0:36:23 | |
"this is Judi Dench, isn't it?" | 0:36:23 | 0:36:25 | |
Now, I never write for actors | 0:36:25 | 0:36:26 | |
so I said, "I hadn't thought that, but, yes, that would be fantastic." | 0:36:26 | 0:36:30 | |
But when she was given Amy's View, she said, | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
"I don't see myself in this at all. Why are you giving this to me? | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
"This is not me." | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
She resisted the part very strongly. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
Did David Hare write that play about you, really? | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
'I don't think he did. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:45 | |
'But there are lots of things in it that are parallels, I suppose, | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
'with my life or that I can understand easily.' | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
She, Esme, is really a very vulnerable character, isn't she? | 0:36:51 | 0:36:56 | |
'Yes, I think she is, very.' | 0:36:56 | 0:36:57 | |
Do you think you are? | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
'Yes, I expect I've got a lot of that in me, too.' | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
Mummy's brilliant at playing comedy. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:11 | |
Well, I'm usually best at playing genteel | 0:37:11 | 0:37:14 | |
with something interesting happening underneath. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
You know, layers. I play a lot of layers. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:19 | |
-She plays them wonderfully. -Well, thank you. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:22 | |
The reason people responded so strongly to the play | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
was that it's a mother-daughter play. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:28 | |
I observed how complex that bond is | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
and the play plugs into something pretty primal. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
Oh, you all say it so easily, so glibly. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:37 | |
"Take control of your lives." | 0:37:37 | 0:37:39 | |
Who's in control, finally?! | 0:37:39 | 0:37:41 | |
I ask you. The answer is no-one. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
No-one! | 0:37:44 | 0:37:46 | |
If you don't know that, you know nothing. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:50 | |
There is an element of rebuke and competition in that relationship. | 0:37:50 | 0:37:55 | |
And also, in the mother, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
there's also a regret for the life they never got to live | 0:37:57 | 0:37:59 | |
and that they feel their daughter is living. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:01 | |
My God, you live with this man, this child, this figure, | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
who you think merits your love. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:07 | |
And you let him run off with | 0:38:07 | 0:38:08 | |
a slice of teenage Scandinavian charcuterie | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
and, even then, forgive me, | 0:38:11 | 0:38:15 | |
you don't even leave. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:17 | |
'There are two kinds of actors - those who' | 0:38:17 | 0:38:21 | |
reveal themselves when they act | 0:38:21 | 0:38:22 | |
and those who act... | 0:38:22 | 0:38:24 | |
..with a series of masks, you know. | 0:38:24 | 0:38:26 | |
In a sense, one is about stripping away | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
the mask that they have in public | 0:38:29 | 0:38:31 | |
and the other is about adding a mask. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
She reveals herself. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
-Please, stay. -I can't, not tonight. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
-I have to get back to London. -Amy, I beg you, please. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:40 | |
-I can't. -Just tonight. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:42 | |
Just stay and comfort me! | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
I can't. | 0:38:45 | 0:38:46 | |
'When mother and daughter finally come to loggerheads, | 0:38:46 | 0:38:50 | |
'it was immensely challenging.' | 0:38:50 | 0:38:52 | |
Try and stay steady. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
'And immensely painful to play.' | 0:38:55 | 0:38:59 | |
Jude would play with | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
such searing honesty... | 0:39:01 | 0:39:03 | |
..that one simply responded. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
I'll see you. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
-Amy! -I'll call you. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
This is the last scene of the play | 0:39:14 | 0:39:16 | |
before Esme discovers that her daughter Amy has died. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:20 | |
SOBBING | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
As the play transferred to New York, | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
Judi received the news | 0:39:27 | 0:39:29 | |
that her husband Michael had been diagnosed with cancer. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
We were in New York together when Michael first got ill | 0:39:33 | 0:39:39 | |
and she was absolutely terrified | 0:39:39 | 0:39:43 | |
and... | 0:39:43 | 0:39:45 | |
..drawn, and in agony. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
Is it that you just don't dare to | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
deal with real experience? | 0:39:53 | 0:39:55 | |
Or the things that happen in real life, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
like grief and betrayal... | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
..and love and unhappiness... | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
..and loss? | 0:40:05 | 0:40:07 | |
The loss of people we love. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:09 | |
She has the necessary stoicism | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
that an actor has to perform, | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
even though their heart is breaking. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
Michael died on 11th January, 2001, after an 18-month illness. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:27 | |
Did you take time away from acting after your husband died? | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
'No. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
'I was not in a frightfully wonderful place | 0:40:33 | 0:40:36 | |
'and then I kind of immersed myself in a lot of work, | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
'and I think it was the best thing I could do, | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
'and it was also being with incredible people. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
'Richard Eyre and Jim Broadbent, you know. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
'Spread amongst friends - it was good.' | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
Wonderful. Well done. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
My mother had had Alzheimer's, | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
so I knew a lot about it, and it was uncanny | 0:41:00 | 0:41:02 | |
that Judi, who hadn't actually | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
been through that in any way, | 0:41:04 | 0:41:08 | |
was incredibly just accurate. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:10 | |
Even when she was suffering from | 0:41:14 | 0:41:16 | |
terrible grief over Michael's death, | 0:41:16 | 0:41:20 | |
she was performing this exquisitely dignified person | 0:41:20 | 0:41:24 | |
who was dealing with the worst grief of her life. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
'If you are grieving, | 0:41:32 | 0:41:34 | |
'for anything, grieving creates an incredible energy in you. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:40 | |
'You can use that, it just is like... | 0:41:40 | 0:41:44 | |
'It's petrol. It can be used, that energy, | 0:41:44 | 0:41:48 | |
'in order to tell another story.' | 0:41:48 | 0:41:50 | |
There's a scene where she is in the advanced stages of dementia | 0:41:55 | 0:42:00 | |
and her husband, played by Jim Broadbent, | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
reads an excerpt from Pride and Prejudice to her. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
And in her close-up, | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
you feel that you're watching somebody whose mind is half there. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:18 | |
Extraordinarily difficult to do. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
"Mr Darcy had at first scarcely allowed her to be pretty." | 0:42:22 | 0:42:26 | |
I...wrote. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
Yes, my darling clever cat. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:35 | |
You wrote books. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:37 | |
Books. I wrote. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
You wrote novels. | 0:42:40 | 0:42:43 | |
Wonderful novels. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:45 | |
I think what she covers up, very skilfully, | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
is the sheer degree of hard work | 0:42:55 | 0:42:58 | |
and technical skill that has been required to get her to where she is. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:02 | |
She has immense knowledge, | 0:43:04 | 0:43:06 | |
immense technical craft, but you are simply unable to see it. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:11 | |
It is there so deep for so long, | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
and with such a sensitivity and such knowledge, and such perception, | 0:43:13 | 0:43:20 | |
that it is just invisible. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:22 | |
'I don't want to be thought of as one kind of actress. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
'You know, if having played Iris Murdoch, | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
'another similar kind of part comes up, then I can't do that. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:36 | |
'Everything in me says no.' | 0:43:36 | 0:43:38 | |
Dame Judi's range of work was now immense. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:42 | |
Everything from a disturbed schoolteacher... | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
..to a cartoon mouse... | 0:43:45 | 0:43:47 | |
..to Queen Elizabeth I - a role for which | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
she received an Oscar for a performance | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
lasting under ten minutes. | 0:43:53 | 0:43:55 | |
But in those ten minutes, | 0:43:55 | 0:43:56 | |
Judi delivered one of the great performances of her lifetime. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:59 | |
It was as if the part was written for her. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:03 | |
What do you love so much? | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
-Your Majesty, I... -Speak up, girl. I know who I am. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
It's one of the thrilling things about Judi's career | 0:44:09 | 0:44:12 | |
is to have watched someone who has been so glorious, always, | 0:44:12 | 0:44:16 | |
and then suddenly she has this extraordinary film career | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
that kind of started when she was about 65 or 70. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:24 | |
It fills us all with hope. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:25 | |
Challenging herself yet again, Judi played the lead in Philomena, | 0:44:29 | 0:44:35 | |
made by veteran director, Stephen Frears. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
Hello, you must be Philomena. I'm Martin. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:40 | |
It told the story of an Irish mother | 0:44:40 | 0:44:43 | |
who was looking for her long-lost son | 0:44:43 | 0:44:45 | |
with the help of a journalist, Martin Sixsmith, | 0:44:45 | 0:44:49 | |
played by Steve Coogan. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:50 | |
I must apologise for the other night, I'm afraid I was a bit... | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
Caught me at a bad moment. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
Oh, that's all right. | 0:44:55 | 0:44:56 | |
'Philomena is about the Irish girl who's had a baby | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
'out of wedlock and went into a convent and then, | 0:44:59 | 0:45:02 | |
'at the age of four, the child was sold to an American.' | 0:45:02 | 0:45:04 | |
So, Philomena, how are you? | 0:45:06 | 0:45:08 | |
I'm all right. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:10 | |
And so the mother | 0:45:10 | 0:45:11 | |
never saw the child again. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
'I met her before and she made me a cup of tea, | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
'and I told her the story of Philomena.' | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
-Hello, sorry I'm late. -Hello, Martin. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
First of all, she said, | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
"Who do you see as playing Martin Sixsmith?" | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
And I said, "Well, we were thinking... | 0:45:30 | 0:45:33 | |
"..maybe me." | 0:45:33 | 0:45:35 | |
And she said, "OK, | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
"and is that negotiable?" | 0:45:38 | 0:45:40 | |
And I said, "No." | 0:45:40 | 0:45:42 | |
And she went, "OK." | 0:45:42 | 0:45:44 | |
One of the reasons we wanted Judi | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
was because we wanted to have the audience | 0:45:51 | 0:45:55 | |
privy to Philomena's private anguish | 0:45:55 | 0:45:58 | |
when no other people, within the film, are present. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
Because it makes the moment really intimate. | 0:46:02 | 0:46:04 | |
There are very few actors who can pull that off. | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
In the wrong hands, it can just be... | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
Someone can just look vacant, you know, when the camera's on them. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
Of course, the audience really connects with her, | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
just being able to look at her face very closely. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:19 | |
You know that her face is very, very expressive, | 0:46:23 | 0:46:26 | |
therefore you don't need six lines to say what her face is saying. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
So you can do less, because she's doing it for you. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:34 | |
So, she's the perfect director... | 0:46:36 | 0:46:38 | |
The perfect actress for a lazy man. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:40 | |
Action. | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
There wasn't really much direction. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:46 | |
There wasn't much conversation with Stephen. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
I mean, most of his direction was for me. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:52 | |
I mean, she didn't really need any. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
As Philomena's relationship with Martin Sixsmith develops, | 0:46:54 | 0:46:58 | |
she opens up about the father of her lost son. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
What made it so much worse was... that I enjoyed it. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:05 | |
-What? -The sex. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
SHE SIGHS | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
It was just wonderful, Martin. I thought I was floating on air. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
He was so handsome. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:15 | |
The way he held me in his arms. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:17 | |
-The thing is, I didn't even know I had a clitoris, Martin. -Right. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:23 | |
'Judi mainly liked the dirty bits.' | 0:47:23 | 0:47:25 | |
She did ring me up and say, | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
"I've just come across this line about the clitoris. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
"You are going to keep it in, aren't you?" | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
I told her she was grubby. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
Underneath it all, she was grubby. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:35 | |
It seemed to me all the better for it. | 0:47:35 | 0:47:37 | |
I... | 0:47:40 | 0:47:42 | |
..knew your son for about ten years. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
The way Judi played Philomena | 0:47:45 | 0:47:47 | |
was a very careful tightrope to walk | 0:47:47 | 0:47:49 | |
because if you over-play the comedy, | 0:47:49 | 0:47:52 | |
then she could become a caricature. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
I don't know if you know, but he was gay. | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
'Or it could be seen as cruel. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:00 | |
'So, it needed to be really well-judged' | 0:48:00 | 0:48:03 | |
and she managed to get that slight... | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
..naivety coupled with a kind of a... | 0:48:06 | 0:48:10 | |
..sort of a folk wisdom. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
Tell me, did he father any children? | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
Philomena, Marcia's just told us that Anthony was gay. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:19 | |
Yeah, well, I always knew that, | 0:48:19 | 0:48:21 | |
-but I just wondered if he might be bi-curious. -Bi-curious? | 0:48:21 | 0:48:24 | |
A lot of the nurses I worked with were gay, but one of them, | 0:48:24 | 0:48:27 | |
called Brendan, told me was bi-curious. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:29 | |
I don't think he could make up his mind, Marcia. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:31 | |
She has enormous empathy, but so do lots of people. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:36 | |
Sorry, this is my anti-national treasure line. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
So do lots of people. | 0:48:38 | 0:48:40 | |
But then she's a trained actress, she's good at her job. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
You work with Hollywood actors and they're not trained in that way, | 0:48:43 | 0:48:46 | |
and then you come across Judi and her gang, | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
and they know how to do it. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:51 | |
They do it basically, in rep, every two weeks. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:54 | |
That's what they do. They act a part. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:56 | |
'I think acting is... I think it's always talked about | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
'and it shouldn't be talked about, it should be done. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
'It should either be a success or not a success. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:11 | |
'Just get on, tell the story.' | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
Where the hell have you been? | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
Enjoying death. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:19 | |
007, reporting for duty. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
Judi being cast as M was just a piece of inspired casting. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:28 | |
It allowed a female voice... | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
Something that was probably needed | 0:49:34 | 0:49:36 | |
in a Bond... | 0:49:36 | 0:49:38 | |
..in the Bond franchise. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
She came in and she took it, and she made it her own. | 0:49:40 | 0:49:43 | |
Her first outing was back in 1995 with Pierce Brosnan, | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
who was also new to the Bond family. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
Would you care for a drink? | 0:49:56 | 0:49:58 | |
Thank you. Your predecessor kept some cognac in the top... | 0:49:58 | 0:50:02 | |
-I prefer bourbon. Ice? -Yes. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:05 | |
I remember Pierce Brosnan's first day with Judi, | 0:50:05 | 0:50:08 | |
and it transpired | 0:50:08 | 0:50:09 | |
that he was absolutely terrified. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:13 | |
We were chatting in the lift | 0:50:13 | 0:50:15 | |
and he was going, "Well, you've worked with her. What's she like?" | 0:50:15 | 0:50:18 | |
And I was going, "Well, she's lovely, she's divine." | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
He was going, "Yes, but you know, she's... | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
"It's Judi Dench!" | 0:50:22 | 0:50:24 | |
'It's our first time together as James Bond and M. | 0:50:24 | 0:50:29 | |
'Both of us, I think, are quite anxious and nervous. They wanted her | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
to have a cup of tea in her hand | 0:50:33 | 0:50:36 | |
and she said, "No, that's going to | 0:50:36 | 0:50:38 | |
"rattle too much." | 0:50:38 | 0:50:39 | |
She said, "Just give me a Scotch." | 0:50:39 | 0:50:41 | |
So she sat there with a Scotch in her hand. | 0:50:41 | 0:50:44 | |
I said to her, "Do you like doing films?" She said, "Oh, no, no. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:48 | |
"I don't like films at all." | 0:50:48 | 0:50:50 | |
You don't like me, Bond. You don't like my methods. | 0:50:50 | 0:50:53 | |
You think I'm an accountant. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
A bean counter, more interested in my numbers than your instincts. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
-The thought had occurred to me. -Good. | 0:50:58 | 0:51:00 | |
Because I think you're a sexist, misogynist dinosaur. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
A relic of the Cold War. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:05 | |
That particular scene, and that line, | 0:51:05 | 0:51:08 | |
really set the benchmark for the rest of her career playing M. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:13 | |
-Point taken. -Not quite, 007. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
She gave it a context, for the first time, | 0:51:17 | 0:51:20 | |
rather than us feeling like | 0:51:20 | 0:51:22 | |
we're in this permanent time warp | 0:51:22 | 0:51:24 | |
of 1969 or '72, | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
the sort of Connery, Roger Moore axis, and basically, | 0:51:27 | 0:51:31 | |
they were stuck there forever. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
You know. She somehow went, "Actually, no, we can... | 0:51:35 | 0:51:38 | |
"This is now." | 0:51:38 | 0:51:39 | |
-AMERICAN REPORTERS: -M, over here, M! -Judi! | 0:51:39 | 0:51:43 | |
But however much Judi brought to Bond, | 0:51:43 | 0:51:45 | |
her screen time was still limited - | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
until director Sam Mendes took over. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:50 | |
When I directed Bond, I thought, "Hang on a minute, | 0:51:52 | 0:51:54 | |
"we haven't exploited the fact we've got a great actor | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
"playing M." | 0:51:57 | 0:51:59 | |
Take the shot. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
-I can't, I'm... -Take the bloody shot. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
So let's try and unlock the potential of the character | 0:52:03 | 0:52:07 | |
and her genuine interaction with Bond. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
That's something that I felt Judi could bring that nobody else could. | 0:52:10 | 0:52:15 | |
His name is Thiago Rodriguez. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:19 | |
He was a brilliant agent. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:21 | |
But he started operating beyond his brief, hacking the Chinese. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
The handover was coming up and they were onto him, so I gave him up. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:29 | |
Yeah, she stole every scene she's in. | 0:52:31 | 0:52:34 | |
But, I mean, what a joy is that, for me as an actor. | 0:52:34 | 0:52:36 | |
When people like Judi walk on set, I relax. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:40 | |
With Judi, you're always guaranteed a little magic. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:42 | |
Who is your favourite Bond? | 0:52:42 | 0:52:45 | |
Oh, you see, I knew that would come up. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:48 | |
How can I say that? Now, how can I say that? | 0:52:48 | 0:52:50 | |
How would Pierce feel? | 0:52:50 | 0:52:52 | |
Dame Judi might feel differently | 0:52:52 | 0:52:54 | |
if she knew the role that Craig had played in her demise | 0:52:54 | 0:52:57 | |
in her last Bond outing, Skyfall. | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
I think I actually was the one who came up with the idea. | 0:53:00 | 0:53:04 | |
You try and think of what's the biggest, best story you can tell. | 0:53:04 | 0:53:07 | |
And that seemed to me... | 0:53:07 | 0:53:09 | |
To me and everybody in the room, to be the biggest and most emotionally | 0:53:09 | 0:53:14 | |
kind of charged story we could tell. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
Then we had to, of course, break the news to Judi, which wasn't so easy. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:22 | |
'I had 17 years of being M, | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
'so I had a full go at it.' | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
Christ. 'And I loved it. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:32 | |
'Just loved it.' | 0:53:32 | 0:53:33 | |
I think she was drawing on the fact that she had had this long, | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
seven-movie relationship with the franchise | 0:53:38 | 0:53:40 | |
and it felt to her like M's relationship with MI6 | 0:53:40 | 0:53:42 | |
was the equivalent. | 0:53:42 | 0:53:44 | |
She was grieving it, and it's nice when art and life intersect | 0:53:45 | 0:53:49 | |
to the degree, when someone who has had a 20-year relationship | 0:53:49 | 0:53:53 | |
with the role is actually saying goodbye to it. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:56 | |
In Skyfall, M had become the film's driving force. | 0:53:56 | 0:54:01 | |
Judi Dench - the ultimate Bond girl. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:03 | |
I read your obituary of me. | 0:54:03 | 0:54:06 | |
And? | 0:54:06 | 0:54:07 | |
Appalling. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
Yeah, I knew you'd hate it. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
I did call you, "an exemplar of British fortitude." | 0:54:13 | 0:54:16 | |
That bit was all right. | 0:54:16 | 0:54:18 | |
Judi's days in Bond may be over, | 0:54:20 | 0:54:23 | |
but since then, she has performed on stage, on television and in film, | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
where she reprised her role as Queen Victoria. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:31 | |
I said, "I'll only make this if Judi does it." | 0:54:36 | 0:54:40 | |
And I cannot guarantee that she'll | 0:54:40 | 0:54:41 | |
want to put all those clothes on again. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:45 | |
But it's a wicked, mischievous part, so... | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
I don't think it would have been something | 0:54:48 | 0:54:50 | |
I would have done by choice but once I got the script | 0:54:50 | 0:54:52 | |
and I knew Stephen was directing it, I thought | 0:54:52 | 0:54:55 | |
I would definitely want to do it and I'm very pleased I have. | 0:54:55 | 0:54:58 | |
Judi co-starred with the actor, Ali Fazal. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:04 | |
Ali plays the Indian servant, Abdul, | 0:55:04 | 0:55:06 | |
who becomes Queen Victoria's confidante. | 0:55:06 | 0:55:08 | |
There are very few people I really admired as a child. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
It was Judi Dench, it was Meryl Streep, Marlon Brando, DeNiro | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
and these were actors we would idolise. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:19 | |
And then to be able to work with her, I mean, it was... | 0:55:23 | 0:55:26 | |
It was a dream come true. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:27 | |
My first scene, actually, with her, there was 200 people on set. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:33 | |
Honestly, I was nervous, it was all there... | 0:55:33 | 0:55:36 | |
..for you to see. | 0:55:36 | 0:55:38 | |
Profiteroles have gone. Gentlemen, process, turn, bow, present. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:43 | |
And absolutely no eye contact whatsoever. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:47 | |
FANFARE | 0:55:47 | 0:55:51 | |
One of the film's key scenes is where Abdul has to present | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
a ceremonial coin to Queen Victoria but not to catch her eye. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:56 | |
The subtle interplay between the two co-stars | 0:56:01 | 0:56:03 | |
hints at the relationship that follows. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:05 | |
-I remember both of us looked at Stephen. -Eyes! | 0:56:09 | 0:56:14 | |
And we were like, "Is that OK for you, Stephen?" | 0:56:14 | 0:56:16 | |
And Stephen just walks up to her and says... | 0:56:16 | 0:56:18 | |
"Judi, just act better." | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
And I thought, that was the best ice breaker, everybody was in splits. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:29 | |
And action, Ali. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:31 | |
As the film progresses, Abdul begins to teach Queen Victoria Urdu. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:37 | |
ABDUL SPEAKS URDU | 0:56:38 | 0:56:40 | |
"I am the Queen." | 0:56:40 | 0:56:41 | |
-I see. -Judi Dench was a good student. | 0:56:41 | 0:56:44 | |
We would sit together and we would do our lines | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
and we would do the Urdu. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:48 | |
Luckily, I knew the Urdu well, | 0:56:50 | 0:56:52 | |
so, eventually it was me you know, writing it all for her, | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
recording the dialogues for her or we would just practice. | 0:56:55 | 0:56:58 | |
JUDI SPEAKS URDU | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
That took me ages but with Ali, you know, it was somebody on hand | 0:57:05 | 0:57:08 | |
to say, "It's not like that, it's like this." | 0:57:08 | 0:57:10 | |
She's constantly trying to reinvent herself. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:16 | |
She's trying to make mistakes, she is making mistakes | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
and learning from them. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:21 | |
At that age, with that experience. | 0:57:21 | 0:57:24 | |
It gives you so much to work with. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
The lucky ones are people like Judi who find what they're good at | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
and are allowed to lead an interesting life. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:36 | |
Would you ever consider retiring? | 0:57:44 | 0:57:46 | |
No. No. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:48 | |
It's a really dirty word. | 0:57:50 | 0:57:52 | |
Old and retiring, those are really dirty words. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:57 | |
I think she wants to go on working until she can't do it any | 0:57:57 | 0:57:59 | |
longer and would love to expire probably, preferably, on stage. | 0:57:59 | 0:58:03 | |
I don't think it's unusual for somebody to want to work | 0:58:07 | 0:58:10 | |
when their means of expression artistically is their talent, | 0:58:10 | 0:58:13 | |
their God-given gift and that's what she has. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:17 | |
I think she is a figurehead. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:21 | |
A woman of great integrity, beauty, charm, intellect. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:23 | |
And, above all, humanity. | 0:58:23 | 0:58:25 | |
She's not like other people. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:32 | |
If other people were the same as Judi, | 0:58:32 | 0:58:34 | |
we wouldn't be talking about her. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:36 | |
You've got to progress. | 0:58:39 | 0:58:40 | |
You can't ever stand still. | 0:58:41 | 0:58:43 | |
You can't go back or at least you hope you won't, | 0:58:43 | 0:58:45 | |
stand still or go back. | 0:58:45 | 0:58:47 | |
And also, you're aware of the mistakes that one can make. | 0:58:47 | 0:58:51 | |
It's like building a house of cards. | 0:58:51 | 0:58:53 | |
Your hand starts to shake when you get up to the top. | 0:58:53 | 0:58:57 |