Browse content similar to 02/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. Welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
The wettest April on record and flood warnings across the country, | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
but the threat of a severe drought remains. We'll ask the Water | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
Minister about claims we could be forced to use standpipes in the | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
street this time next year. What's behind the excessive queues | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
at our airports? As the Home Secretary convenes a summit with | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
airline bosses, is the answer more border staff, or a relaxation of | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
identity checks? It's the last day of campaigning | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
for tomorrow's local elections, with plenty at stake for all the | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
political parties. Jeremy Vine will be here with his comprehensive | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
guide to all the votes. And would you miss your local rag | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
if it went belly-up? Author and MP, Louise Mensch, on her campaign to | :01:28. | :01:38. | |
:01:38. | :01:44. | ||
save local newspapers. All that coming up in the next hour, | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
and in case you were just tuning in to watch Prime Ministers Questions | :01:47. | :01:57. | |
:01:57. | :02:05. | ||
I bring you sad news - there is no PMQs today. That's because | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
yesterday was the end of the Parliamentary session. The House of | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Commons isn't sitting until the Queen's Speech kicks off the new | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
session next Wednesday. We'll have more on that later. | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
First though, it seems hard to believe in the current climate, but | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
the Government is warning that parts of Britain face a severe | :02:28. | :02:36. | |
drought next year. Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, has | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
told the BBC that radical action may be needed, including stand | :02:39. | :02:47. | |
pipes in the street, if we have a third dry winter in a row. Jo, | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
what's the background to all this? The Environment Agency has said | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
that more than half of England is now under drought conditions, | :02:54. | :03:03. | |
including the South West, South East, the Midlands and East Anglia. | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
At the moment, there are seven water companies implementing | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
hosepipe bans and threatening a �1,000 fine for those who don't | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
For the 20 million people affected, this means that they cannot use a | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
hosepipe to water plants, clean a car, fill or maintain a pond or | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
clean paths and patios. All this despite us enduring the wettest | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
April for 100 years. Nearly five inches of rain fell on average, | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
almost double the long-term average. But experts say it's not enough. | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
And it's come at the wrong time of year for stocks to be easily | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
replenished. The year leading up to April was, for England, the third | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
driest on record. Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, has | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
said that we need to think more about using grey water, or non- | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
drinking water for washing. And she has warned that unless action is | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
:03:58. | :04:01. | ||
taken now, the consequences could Were it is most unlikely we will | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
have to have standpipes this year, if we have another dry winter, it | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
is more likely next year. Although we have had a wet April, it has not | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
solved the problem. We need a wet winter to get back to normal | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
conditions. Caroline Spelman, speaking to the | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
BBC's Inside Out programme which is on BBC One tonight at 7.30pm. We've | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
been joined by Richard Aylard, from Thames Water and Tony Smith, chief | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
executive of the Consumer Council for Water. | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
Can I come to Richard first? How can we have a hosepipe ban and | :04:38. | :04:45. | |
warnings of a drought when we have experienced something like an Old | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
Testament deluge? Although we have had one of the wettest April's on | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
record, the whole two years was the driest period ever recorded. In | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
terms of personal finance, the current account is healthy for a | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
couple of months. But the savings account is empty. Even with that | :05:08. | :05:15. | |
rain? We have had more rain than we have had in the last 100 years, the | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
reservoirs are 100% fall. 70% of your supplies come from reservoirs, | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
what is the problem? The reservoirs are filled from the rivers, driven | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
by groundwater. Which has seeped underground over the previous two | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
Winters. Those boreholes are still at the lowest levels ever recorded. | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
Some of this rain will work its way down there, but not very much. We | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
might forget about this rain quickly, and we are catching what | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
we can. But once the rivers have run off this little bit of rain, | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
they will be at rock bottom Lower Falls and that is what we have to | :05:59. | :06:08. | |
plan for. Like the way you say a little bit of rain. Are you going | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
to provide evidence to continue with a hosepipe ban? Yes, we have | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
reports from the Environment Agency and the levels in the boreholes and | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
the care for modelling we do based on previous years, which shows how | :06:20. | :06:28. | |
much water will be available. Because of these two dry Winters, | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
the levels of a low as they have ever been in some cases. Tony Smith, | :06:33. | :06:41. | |
do you accept that explanation, despite the reservoirs are full, it | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
is the underground water we are more reliant on? We have been | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
pushing on customers' behalf, the company needs to make the case for | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
the hosepipe ban and to prove they are doing everything they can to | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
avoid the effect. We will be asking three questions going forward. Do | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
you need to continue these hosepipe bans, and we don't want it to last | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
any longer than it needs to. The second question is, of the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
companies doing what they can in terms of extra investments, | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
investments in leakage, in particular. But if there is a third | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
dry winter, there aren't a more serious problems next year? And the | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
third question, we will be asking the question as to whether the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
regulatory system and the assumptions the companies make to | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
plan their long-term resource water management plans, on a fit for | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
purpose? We are seeing more frequent hosepipe bans. Customers | :07:41. | :07:48. | |
will ask, don't need to change the regulatory assessments -- system to | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
address the problem? Can you say the hosepipe ban can be lifted in | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
the next few months? You surely are not going to say it has got to stay | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
for the rest of the year? If we have average rainfall between now | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
and September we could lift the ban around them. Realistically, it will | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
have to stay in place before we get some solid, winter rainfall. What | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
about the investment? It is the critical thing that customers like | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
me who seeks in the local streets and left for days, and it would | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
help if companies like yours don't lose a quarter of the water you | :08:30. | :08:39. | |
pump. And they are not left for days. Anecdotally, they are. | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
company has hit six annual leakage the targets, and we are ahead of | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
the leakage targets. We put more money and investments in, bearing | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
in mind the company's profits? are many in that is needed to | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
secure supplied. We need to work out through the water resource | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
planning process, what is the best way to spend customers money to | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
provide the security of supply they need? I want you both to stay at | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
the end of this discussion, but Tony Smith, if we have another dry | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
winter, can we avoid standpipes in the street? I don't think there is | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
any need for standpipes. The companies need to demonstrate they | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
are putting that investment in, and not waiting for a third dry winter. | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
But they are proactive the getting in there and doing the right | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
investments at the right time. Friends from me, but please stay | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
with us. And we've been joined by the | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
minister in charge of water conservation, Richard Benyon, who | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
was listening to that. Eye you content Thames Water saying they | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
will keep the hosepipe ban? Richard made the point, the rain, although | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
Wellcome is not enough to solve the problems of groundwater. You are | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
content? Nobody is content about these measures. I did not a happy, | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
I said content. The reservoir in Sussex is only half full as we go | :10:12. | :10:18. | |
into the summer. The Thames Water reservoirs are full. The water we | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
use will come from the ground water levels which feed the rivers so | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
we're not out of the woods yet. Have you asked for the evidence | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
from Thames Water to justify these restrictions? We have talked to the | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
Environment Agency and they are dealing with this on a daily basis | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
and we are not imposing restrictions... Has your department | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
called for evidence from Thames Water? Yes, we have evidence | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
through the Environment Agency. you have considered? We have | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
considered this on a weekly basis through the drought group which is | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
chaired by the chief executive of the Environment Agency. One of the | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
reasons we have become more dependent from water on the ground | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
is because we have not built enough reservoirs. Why did your Government | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
block a reservoir Thames Water wanted to build in Oxfordshire? | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
Water companies have to take forward their long-term the swords | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
management plans. They have to be examined independent of governments | :11:24. | :11:33. | |
and the inquiry panel said they had not put enough evidence in place. | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
Can I give the public the reason? This reservoir has been talked | :11:37. | :11:47. | |
:11:47. | :11:49. | ||
about since the 1980s. It you don't let them build reservoirs, here | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
Secretary of State said last year when she Blok this "there was no | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
immediate need for a new reservoir". We published last year, on long- | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
term vision to assist water companies. We said we wanted to | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
encourage more book trading of water between area so we will get | :12:08. | :12:14. | |
the flow of water as -- water between areas where it is plentiful. | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
When she said there was no immediate need for a reservoir, she | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
was wrong? When you look at long- term plans... This is a long-term | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
problem. The reason we rely on boreholes is because successive | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
governments have not allowed new reservoirs to be built. That is why | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
30% of water in the Thames region does not come from Reservoir | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
anymore. The Secretary of State cannot tell us, on the one hand we | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
could face standpipes next year, and then says there is no immediate | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
need for a reservoir. You're looking at reservoirs as the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
solution. It is the Government getting a grip of water policy, | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
determined that we are planning for these will weather events into the | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
future. We said the way to do this is to in cent advise water | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
companies and trade water with their neighbours. You will see | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
water flowing from were it is plentiful to areas where it is not. | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
We know it can work. We have worked this through with the economic | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
regulator. This is the way forward. Yes, we need to look at building | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
new reservoirs. Were you look again at this reservoir? There is a | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
reservoir in East Anglia that has been expanded in size. I will look | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
at any measure to make sure we are not facing the kind of problems we | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
are facing at the moment. The Government has a grip of this. | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
cannot have a grip of it if we have a hosepipe ban in the middle of a | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
flood. How can you tell of you as you have a grip of it? When we came | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
into power, we published our water white paper just before Christmas, | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
which set out precisely how governments in the future can deal | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
with this. It is not good enough at the moment is it? It is only four | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
months after we publish the white paper. It is very clear how we can | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
help water companies, how we can help them. We are recognising we | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
have a different climate to what we had when this was last looked at, | :14:23. | :14:29. | |
much too long ago. Caroline Spelman says if we have another dry winter | :14:29. | :14:38. | |
we may need standpipes next year. How dry does the winter need to be? | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
It is not inconceivable we could have another dry winter. But how | :14:42. | :14:52. | |
dry? I cannot predict at this stage. I am not asking you to predict. I | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
am asking you to tell me and the viewers how dry the winter will | :14:57. | :15:07. | |
:15:07. | :15:09. | ||
have to be? There are various What we can't predict is the | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
weather. I haven't asked you to predict the weather. What we will | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
do, if we don't get the kind of weather we need to replenish our | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
stocks bat be wasn't that long ago your government was telling us to | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
store petrol in jerry cans. don't need to do that now, you were | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
wrong on that. Should we use these jerry cans we all bought to store | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
water? Should we? We think households and businesses can play | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
a big part in reducing the amount of water we use. People from other | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
countries look at us in a bizarre way. They say, you're using | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
drinking quality water to wash your cars and gardens. We set out plans | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
in the future to see more innovation, more grey water systems, | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
more rainwater harvesting. Instead of rising water companies to do | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
precisely what happens in other countries. And yet you still | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
predict standpipes next summer. are trying to change the whole way | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
water is managed in this country. We have a vision which deals | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
precisely what these points. The government has got a grip on this. | :16:10. | :16:18. | |
You've said that. Viewers will judge. Richard Aylard, are you | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
happy with these incentives? People are happy. The planning process | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
sounds really dull, but it does mean that providing the ways | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
customers the border are looked at and round, so that those which will | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
cost customers least are the ones that get delivered first. We are | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
looking at the next 25 years, that could mean a new reservoir, it | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
could mean more water transfers schemes, it could mean other | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
measures. But we've got work this through. In the meantime, you are | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
making a false distinction between ground water and water coming into | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
reservoirs. It is all from water, because it is groundwater which | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
drives the rivers. Whether you tappets outbreak borehole pump it | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
out parade reservoir, it's the same watered. Is it your company's | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
policy to encourage water metering? We are going to be fitting more | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
water meters as soon as our water resource plan is signed off. We'll | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
be starting the first compulsory meters. Metering is the fairest way | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
to pay for water. Can you explain why I approached your company two | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
months ago to ask for a water meter and a company hasn't even bothered | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
to get back to me? I will check that out. Someone should have been | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
round to take a look at your property. A not only has nobody | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
been round, no one has even written to me or called back. We've had | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
nothing but silence. Your company told me that they couldn't get back | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
for 30 days. After 30 days went be changed that to 30 working days. Is | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
this an example of the kind of incompetence that your company is | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
now famous for? It's not. We are not famous for that. But we have | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
got a lot of people wanting metres at the moment because it is an | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
opportunity to cut down on bills. We are working through those calls | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
as fast as we can. Mr Smith, do you think at war water is being managed | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
properly? I think there's a lot of scope already within the existing | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
regulatory system that a company's -- for companies to look at what | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
they need to do too Boyd more serious problems next year if there | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
was a third dry winter. They can invest more in their networks. They | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
can invest in leakage. They should be thinking of doing that partly at | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
their expense. The regulatory system can allow that already. But | :18:21. | :18:28. | |
the other issue is longer term. If you keep relying on hosepipe bans | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
or more serious measures, over time the people's confidence in the | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
system will be reduced. That's why we need to look at the assumptions | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
on which we are planning water into the future, to make sure that we've | :18:40. | :18:47. | |
got enough water now and enough water in 25 years' time. We will | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
have to leave it there. It is election time tomorrow. Boating is | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
taking place across the country in local elections. And a series of | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
referendums on local mayors. Jeremy Vine has taken time out from | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
presenting his Radio 2 programme to guide us through what is at stake | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
tomorrow. Let me show you the map of England | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
that all the council's Kolodin. And then the ones in played for the | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
next 24 hours. An awful lot of blue for the Conservatives to lose. We | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
go to Scotland and see a very different effect. Black. That is | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
that colour the computer users but no overall control, a hung council. | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
Let's show you the most powerful party. Independent councillors, the | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
largest group in the north-west of Scotland, then the SNP very strong | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
here, yellow, Lib Dems, Orange, Labour is red in the conurbations | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
of Scotland and in the south, Conservative blue. In Wales, this | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
Conservative blue. In Wales, this is how the last council elections | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
left the nation of Wales. You can see in purple, independently | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
controlled council. They used to be lots more red down the bottom, | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
Labour being pushed back. In the north, Plaid Cymru in green. | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
north, Plaid Cymru in green. There's a fascinating graph which | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
shows performance by the Conservatives over Labour going | :20:01. | :20:11. | |
:20:11. | :20:13. | ||
back a few years. Let's go back to But things change, Gordon Brown | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
comes in, David Cameron comes in for the Conservatives and by 2008, | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
the Conservatives have a handy lead. We stick on this year and take note | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
of the fact that this 18 % lead is the Conservative's lead over Labour | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
when the council seats that are up tomorrow were last fought. They | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
would need this kind of lead again just to stayed steady. That is | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
going to be hard because watch, gradually the Conservatives come | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
into government, Ed Miliband comes in and the Conservatives are left | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
behind Labour. Similarly, I will show you the Labour Lib Dem Grappa. | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
This is very worrying for the Lib Dems. 2005, Tony Blair again, this | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
time it was Charles Kennedy. Labour were ahead, 5%. They'd gradually | :21:00. | :21:10. | |
clawed it back, the Lib Dems. 2008, the crucial baseline year for these | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
elections. But watch what happens when the coalition government is | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
formed and Labour change their leader. You see this huge leap for | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
later -- Labour. Last time these seats were up, they were ahead of | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
Labour here and now, look at that Labour lead again. That will be | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
very worrying for Lib Dem councillors in areas where Labour | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
are pushing them. Other elections, let's not forget the London mayor, | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
Boris Johnson, Ken Livingstone, all the other candidates. This was the | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
result from 2008 on first preference vote. The Conservative | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
vote is squeezing Labour. Boris Johnson gets the suburbs again, he | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
may well win. There is a London Assembly election, took. Bring on | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
the map of England again. I will highlight the 11 towns and cities, | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
places like Birmingham, Doncaster, Sheffield, Manchester, where they | :22:02. | :22:11. | |
are deciding whether raw not to You can see more of Jeremy and his | :22:11. | :22:20. | |
fantastic graphics on vote 2012. We've been joined by a trio of top | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
flight political operators. The Foreign Office minister, Jeremy | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
Browne, Shadow Education Secretary, Stephen Twigg, and the Minister for | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
decentralisation, Greg Clark. Welcome. Can I start with you, Greg. | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
The Conservative Party had good results in 2008. What is it going | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
to be like from the electorate this time? We did have good results last | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
time and labour had disastrous results. But the message to the | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
government and the Conservatives from the electorate. I would like | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
to see these elections being about local issues. If in future we can | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
get them about local issues, that's all the better it. I think it's | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
very unfair to local councillors that these becoming referendum on | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
national issues. I would like them to be local. But I understand that | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
people do vote for national reasons. We are lower down and where we were | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
last time so it's going to be a typical night. How difficult do you | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
think it's going to be? I can see why you wanted to be on local | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
issues. Do you accept that nationally, things really are very | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
difficult post Budget? First of all, last time was a particularly good | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
year for the Conservatives. I think Labour had 24 % last time. We've | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
had a difficult few weeks. Frustrating though it is for me | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
that people do tend to vote on national issues, that is there is | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
something as we got to overcome. I think it will make a tighter | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
contests locally, which I think is important for every Conservative to | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
get out there and vote and not take it for granted. A touch of contest | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
with the Liberal Democrats. Whichever way you look at it, it | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
was pretty dreadful last year in places like some of the northern | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
cities, you lost all the seats that were being contested at the time. | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
What is your prediction? The one thing that you could say to sum up | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
the graphic that Jeremy Vine was just presenting, is that parties | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
and governments tend to have a harder time in mid-term local | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
elections than parties that are out of government. My party is in | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
government pretty much for the first time in living memory, so we | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
are in a different position and where we've been in the past. | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
you think it will be better? think we will do better than we did | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
last year. I think we are on an upward trajectory. I think we will | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
do better in the opinion polls. You see these are polls by Ugo of | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
giving the Lib Dems very low ratings. I think we will do better | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
than that tomorrow. I'm not saying it's not difficult for us. We have | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
very good councillors in tight contests, but I think we have | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
bottomed out. I think people respect a lot of the decisions we | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
make in government. I think we will perform a cave. You say you are in | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
government with the Conservatives, as everyone knows. Bedfellows | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
politically in that sense in government, but electoral enemies | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
when it comes to the doorstep locally. Is there campaigning and | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
should be campaigning remain clean between the Conservatives and | :25:13. | :25:19. | |
Liberal Democrats? I hope it will be clean between all parties. The | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
two parties are in coalition nationally, I won't rehearse the | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
reasons why. But the election should be about picking your local | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
councillors, your local team to run your community. And the different | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
parties, whether they are in coalition with each other or not, | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
are putting forward their own candidates and prospectors or that | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
area, people to pick the one that suits them best. Is it fair to | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
attack the Conservatives at local level on issues that affect local | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
areas? We can show this campaigning leaflets. This is on the pasty. | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
Stop the Tories taxing our pasties. Is that fair game? I would want the | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
leaflets to concentrate on the local issues that are being decided | :25:59. | :26:08. | |
in the electorate. Pasties are important in Cornwall. I think that | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
both parties in government need to take responsibility for the | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
policies of the government. There are parts of the government Mannus | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
Bairstow that are heavily influenced by the Lib Dems. -- the | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
government manifesto. On behalf of the whole government, we got | :26:23. | :26:30. | |
together and we take decisions for the whole country. Is that fair? | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
Jeremy is a fair man. He admitted to me on the Sunday politics that | :26:34. | :26:44. | |
:26:44. | :26:45. | ||
it was unfair and he wanted to Your leader has spoken. I just said | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
that I think the government, both parties in the government, should | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
take responsibility for the Government's policies as a whole. | :26:53. | :27:00. | |
It is not the Tory pasty tax then, is it? | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
It is the Tories that of a problem. It is the pasty tax of the | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
government as a whole, including both the parties that are in it. | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
Chew on that for a moment. It's worth saying we are very used to | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
the Lib Dems saying one thing... Looking at the opinion polls, you | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
are in a more advantageous position nationally. You are ahead in the | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
polls and improving ratings and some opinion polls in terms of | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
trust with the economy. Why is it all going wrong in Glasgow and | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
London? We don't know what's going to happen in Glasgow and London. | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
They are behind them, why is that? Let's see. London will be close, it | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
was close last time. We are working very hard in London to remind | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
people that Boris Johnson is a Conservative candidate, he's on the | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
right wing of the Conservative Party, he may try to distance | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
himself. Ken Livingstone has a solid track record and are standing | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
on the issues that mattered to Londoners, public-transport and | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
crime. Why have there been some key figures in the party basically | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
saying that Ken Livingstone is not the right candidate for the Labour | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
Party? Even yesterday, Charles Clarke told me he didn't think Ken | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
Livingstone was the best candidate for mayor. We have Lord Winston and | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
Lord Sugar, that's not great in terms of Labour Party supporters | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
not backing the candidate. Charles is a friend of mine and has been | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
outspoken on all sorts of matters. The entire Labour Party has been | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
campaigning for Ken Livingstone. He was properly selected by Labour | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
Party members. In the end, tomorrow Londoners have a choice between a | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
Labour candidate and a right-wing Conservative candidate in Boris | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
Johnson. Let's have a look at some of the places where they are going | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
to have referendums to have a mayor. Turnout for local elections is | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
usually pretty low. Doncaster is voting on whether to scrap its | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
mayor because it's been a disaster. Why do you think people will want | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
another type of boat in class? think there's a big opportunity for | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
all of our systems. Our cities, places like Liverpool and its | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
elected mayor, Sheffield, Leeds, Bristol, Newcastle. They compete | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
with other cities around the world. Those cities have to buy for | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
investment. They, in my view, need someone who can speak for the whole | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
city internationally to get jobs and investment. It is also my view, | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
and I speak as someone who grew up in the north-east of England, I | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
think places outside London have to acquire it a voice in our national | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
affairs. To have someone to speak up for them in the way that | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
successive mayors of London have done, I think it's overdue. But you | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
can get someone rubbish. There's nothing to stop... Than that whole | :29:40. | :29:50. | |
:29:50. | :29:54. | ||
You can at least vote them out. What is the point that when you | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
have only got 35-45% of people turning out to vote in local | :29:59. | :30:08. | |
elections. You have low turnout, a spread of candidates are not that | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
impressive. Look at London. London, I think has benefited from a mare. | :30:14. | :30:24. | |
:30:24. | :30:24. | ||
We have had two difference ones in 10 years. The interest in London | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
politics. The debate between the London mayoral candidates have been | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
all over the country. I would like to see the debate for the Mayor of | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
Birmingham on Newsnight, on your programme, why should London have | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
it all? London is lukewarm, when they introduce the first one? | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
an MP in Liverpool and Liverpool council has decided to elect a | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
mayor. I think it is vital for Liverpool and cities outside of | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
London have a clear voice in national debate. We have 12 | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
candidates and I am very confident Joe Anderson will be elected | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
tomorrow. Now, you may have noticed that there's no Prime Minister's | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
Questions today. That's because Parliament has - in the official | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
parlance - been prorogued. Yes, prorogued! I don't know what it | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
means either, but this is what it looks like. | :31:26. | :31:33. | |
Mr Speaker, the Lords who are authorised by virtue of her | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
Majesty's decision, to declare Royal Assent to Bills passed in | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
this Parliament and declare the prorogation of Parliament, desired | :31:43. | :31:53. | |
:31:53. | :31:53. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds | :31:53. | :32:37. | |
the presence of this Honourable We are commanded to deliver to you, | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
her Majesty's speech in her Majesty's own words. My Lords and | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
Members of the House of Commons, my Government's legislative programme | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
has been based on the principles of freedom, fairness and | :32:51. | :32:58. | |
responsibility. We do, in her Majesty's name and in obedience to | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
her Majesty's commands, prorogued this Parliament to the 9th day of | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
May, to the event here Holden and this Parliament is accordingly | :33:10. | :33:20. | |
:33:20. | :33:22. | ||
prorogued to Wednesday, the 9th day of May. | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
The next episode of Gilbert and Sullivan will be next Wednesday | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
when the Queen opens Parliament. Why does the chamber have to be | :33:31. | :33:41. | |
summoned to the Lords for this? is tradition. Her baiting was | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
tradition, but we stopped that. Public hanging was tradition, but | :33:46. | :33:55. | |
we stopped that. There was a porky pie, these are not in the Queen's | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
own words. They were written by the Government, correct? I assume that | :34:00. | :34:10. | |
:34:10. | :34:12. | ||
is the case. He launched reform will probably be in the Queen's | :34:12. | :34:19. | |
Speech. He is in favour of it, he is worried you won't support him. | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
think we need the Lords reform. Labour did a lot in Government to | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
reform the Lords, but they did not finish the job. It is not the | :34:27. | :34:34. | |
biggest issue at a time of this crisis. Are you encouraged by that? | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
Not really, Labour have been lukewarm on the issue. They are | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
blinded by their hatred of Nick Clegg, more than ambitious of what | :34:45. | :34:51. | |
reforms should be done. I think we should reform it. I almost wish we | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
had the hereditary upper house because it would then be a | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
constitutional appendix which has hung around for hundreds of years | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
and not been reformed. But we haven't Upper House made up of | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
hereditary peers, people who could not get a letter to the House of | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
Commons. People who were elected to the House of Commons, but were | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
rejected it and got elected to the upper house instead. No other | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
country estates, we must adopt this ourselves. That is the next term | :35:26. | :35:34. | |
coming up. As you look back on the first couple of years, did you try | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
to do too much or too little? need to get on with things from the | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
beginning, to give them time to work. Take the economy. The initial | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
budget, it was essential to do it at the beginning, to make sure you | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
could get confidence back of international investors so we are | :35:54. | :36:02. | |
on a trajectory. You did not think we would be back in recession by | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
the time of the next Queen's Speech did you? The Institute for Fiscal | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
Studies has said we would be in a worse situation. We will never know | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
that. Do you think you should have done more, or has it been a | :36:16. | :36:24. | |
struggle? You have had an number of private grief, the fiasco of the | :36:24. | :36:32. | |
NHS, the Planning Bill, pasty taxes, charity tax, the list is endless. | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
Did you bite off more than you could shoot? When you come into | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
Government, and you have a chance to change the country and do the | :36:41. | :36:49. | |
things you set out to do. The Academy's Bill, free schools, so | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
kids, and right now, this September and next will have the chance to go | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
to better schools. It would have been criminal to delay that until | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
the end of the Parliament. He took to be impatient to get on with | :37:02. | :37:10. | |
things, is the right demeanour. Education is the mishandling of | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
schools for the future, cancelling the school's partnership. It could | :37:16. | :37:25. | |
have been done under our legislation. It ran out of steam be | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
-- by the time he left Government because Gordon Brown was not that | :37:30. | :37:37. | |
keen on them. Can you clarify, one of the big changes is the free | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
schools programme. Schools financed by the state but free of local | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
Government control. You have been like a shuttlecock on this issue. | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
Are you for it or against it? voted against the policy. Some of | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
the schools being set up will be fantastic schools and no Labour | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
Government would close down fantastic schools. I believe some | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
of the good, free schools could have been established under | :38:04. | :38:11. | |
Labour's legislation. Is it your policy, if you get back into polls | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
-- power, will you close the free schools? Of course we won't. We | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
will want to ensure there is fair admissions, funding and I am | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
worried free schools open so far have fewer children from poorer | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
backgrounds. There is the woodpecker Academy in Enfield doing | :38:31. | :38:41. | |
a fantastic job. And we wouldn't close that. | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
Should airlines or even airline passengers have to pay for passport | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
checks at airports to prevent the kind of chaos we've seen at | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
London's Heathrow airport? The Government has said it will deploy | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
80 extra staff from tomorrow to try to cut queues, which are said to | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
have lasted as long as two-and-a- half hours for people with non-EU | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
passports. And with predictions of a summer of chaos unless ministers | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
get a grip on the situation, reports this morning say Number Ten | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
wants the airport operator to pick up the tab for extra staff ahead of | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
the Olympics and the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. But the airlines | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
have been clear it's up to the Government to sort this out. Here's | :39:14. | :39:23. | |
the head of BA, Willie Walsh. it means sorting it out immediately. | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
I don't want to hear sounds about don't worry about the Olympics. We | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
need to get this sorted now, it is damaging the reputation of the UK. | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
Turning away tourists and business people the Government are trying to | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
attract into the UK to generate growth and jobs. It is having a | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
damaging effect on the UK. We need to address it immediately. | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
Airline boss Willie Walsh speaking yesterday. What a dreadful image | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
and welcome but people coming to this country. You travel through | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
airport all the time probably, but don't have to wait 2.5 hours, I | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
suspect? What impression does this leave to the rest of the world? | :40:08. | :40:16. | |
bad impression, and we need to get it sorted. I dispute that 2.5 hour, | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
and the Government is saying it took 1.5 hours, but it is still too | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
long. We need to get the balance right because people are concerned | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
about security. I have never seen a national newspaper campaigning for | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
less rigorous controls. We want to make sure our borders are secured. | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
But we want to be welcoming and don't want to look like we are | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
naturally suspicious of people coming on holiday, or coming for | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
business or the Olympics. Theresa May wrong to tighten up | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
those border checks, which must have that riveted to those it used? | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
I think you need to have rigger in terms of policing are boarders, but | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
we need the capacity, particularly if the people coming in and out, | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
are coming in and out in patterns that are harder to predict. | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
Something like the Olympics, Heathrow pretty much operates at | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
capacity already. We won't see a huge surge of extra people coming | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
through Heathrow at the Olympics, but more people coming into Britain | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
and we want to send out a message they are welcome here, so we need | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
to get it right. Is it a result as cuts in the number of border staff? | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
For too long, we have had queues at Heathrow. Willie Walsh said it has | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
been an underlying problem, but it has got particularly bad now and it | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
has coincided with cuts in the number of border staff. The figures | :41:46. | :41:54. | |
leaked by Labour said it has been cut by 10% since 2010. Are you | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
saying there is no correlation? Theresa may need to get people on | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
to the front line and out of back offices. What is the front line? | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
There are desk, anecdotally it says desks are empty at peak-time is and | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
must be a result as fewer staff. Otherwise why is Damian Green | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
bringing in new staff? It is the flexibility to respond when there | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
are sudden peaks and unexpected clutches of people who are arriving. | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
That is what is required. It is emphasising where we are before the | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
Olympics. It is not just the three weeks of the Olympics we need to be | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
concerned about. There is a security threat, a terrorist threat. | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
And no doubt people will be trying to infiltrate themselves into the | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
country now. It is important we need to be rigorous about our | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
borders. But we need to do it in a way to minimise the Jews. But it | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
cannot be done at the expense of security. How will you minimise the | :42:58. | :43:05. | |
queues, are part from bringing in more staff? It is how you deploy it. | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
There will be a team of people available at short notice to come a | :43:10. | :43:18. | |
man desks where they are needed and keep the queues down. The staff are | :43:18. | :43:25. | |
being brought in on a temporary basis. And there are 1,500 Mork of | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
cuts over the next three years to the border staff. There is an image | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
of chaos being presented by the Government. Dispute the premise | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
Labour comes up with whenever that Government makes changes, the more | :43:40. | :43:48. | |
people you have, the better service. You cannot say you're bringing | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
people in temporarily to solve it. If you have people sitting around | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
at quiet times, but not enough people at the Times, you can | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
redeploy people more effectively. It is about managing it better. But | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
the idea Labour goes back to, the more money and bigger deficit you | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
one up, the better public services will be, we tried it for 13 years. | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
I am not saying that. We have the Government suggesting the airline | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
up passengers should have to pay for this. Do you think it is right | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
the airline operator should put their hands in their pockets, pay | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
higher landing fees to sort out these problems and then that will | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
be passed on to customers? There is a responsibility on behalf of the | :44:33. | :44:41. | |
Government to mount an operation to process people properly. Should the | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
airlines pay for that? I don't think there should be an extra levy | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
to provide this service. It is reported as a Downing Street plan? | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
I have not seen that. He wouldn't support it? It is right the | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
Government has an obligation to look after the border, give decent | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
scrutiny to people coming in here. But for many years, it has been the | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
case people have had to queue for too long to enter the country. | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
On May 31st I will arrive at Terminal 5 at 6:30am. My have to go | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
through customs and immigration to pick a papers and then catch the | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
8:30am flight to New York. Will the Government make sure I get the | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
flights? Do you want us to do special favours? No, the opposite. | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
Will the Government make sure that border control is efficient enough | :45:33. | :45:41. | |
for me to be able to do that normal interlining? I do go to lots of | :45:41. | :45:51. | |
airports. You go through the VIP lounge? What's on airports abroad | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
are more modern than ours so there is an airport review in the South | :45:54. | :46:02. | |
East. I'm sure you'll have a very Would you miss your local newspaper | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
if it shut up shop all went from daily to weekly? Could you get by | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
without a daily dose of the local Gazette, Enquirer or pupil? An | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
increasing number are switching from daily to weekly editions, | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
putting more of their content online. -- online. But Louise | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
Mensch discovered this was happening to her local paper and | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
decided to fight back. She bought one instead of two copies. No, what | :46:29. | :46:37. | |
should the government do to help local papers? This is her soapbox. | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
Local papers on at the heart of their community. In another week | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
where the national press has been dominating the headlines at the | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
Leveson Inquiry, what's the most popular print medium in the UK? | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
Over 33 million people Amanda read their local paper. That is over 70 | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
% of the UK's entire adult population. The internet is no | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
substitute for good local reporting. I'm a social media, but the best | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
local stories can't be summed up in a tweed. Anna Usborne iPad app, | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
that excludes two groups of people - the elderly and those on low | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
incomes. The biggest winners from decline of that daily local press | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
are going to be politicians. Who else is going to hold your local MP | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
your local councillors to account? A vibrant local press is vital to | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
the future of our democracy. If the pure profit motive doesn't work for | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
local newspapers, the government needs to look at alternative ways | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
of making it work. Just like footballers looking at community | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
support as Trust, the same model of community ownership is one that | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
could be viable for local newspapers. When we consider how | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
many things receive national subsidies that only have a minority | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
appeal, surely local newspapers at the heart of their towns and | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
villages deserve some of that government support as well. Local | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
papers are not only loved by people in their local communities. They | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
are the only vehicle that holds local politicians to account, and | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
they have an irreplaceable role in our local democracy. They can't be | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
replaced by the internet, and we have to look at community ownership | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
as a model going forward. We have to ask ourselves if some government | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
subsidies shouldn't be targeted towards something that people | :48:11. | :48:18. | |
really use, enjoy and knead on a daily basis. Louise Mensch, gone | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
from green to black, she joins us in the studio. Here is a product in | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
decline, if you are people buying it, it probably doesn't have a | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
future, and you want the government to subsidise it? When did you join | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
Michael Foot's Labour Party? No, I want a level playing field. Other | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
forms of local media are heavily subsidised. The biggest competitor | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
to local papers are council freesheets, which are funded | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
entirely by the ratepayer. The government is trying to get rid of | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
it... You got the Minister for decentralisation here. Surely that | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
should be an issue for people to determine themselves. The people of | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
London didn't like the sheep to very much, they voted for Boris. | :49:01. | :49:09. | |
Indeed, and they should be voting for Boris tomorrow as well. It is | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
because it is entirely difficult to vote one way on the things that | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
concern you about your local council, but say you are going to | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
withhold your vote because you deliberately deliver a freesheet. | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
Eric Pickles has tried to stamp down on these freesheets but many | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
councils are still doing them. And the plans for local television, | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
under the Government's plans they propose the BBC will be forced to | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
buy content for local television. That is clearly an indirect subsidy. | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
You've got the Department of Transport talking about pulling its | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
ads from local papers, that's revenue they need to survive. | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
have a reality check. Local newspapers are not declining | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
because some councils have propaganda freesheets. Yes, they | :49:54. | :50:01. | |
are. There is a diet rich -- they are a direct competitor. They are | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
some of the biggest cannibals of the market. But they've lost the | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
huge advertising market. Can I give you an example of one? Here is the | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
newspaper that comes out weekly in Tower Hamlets. It is a 40 paid | :50:15. | :50:25. | |
:50:25. | :50:26. | ||
weekly newspaper. It has the TV listings here in great detail. It | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
is full of advertising. I think this is unfair. This is council? | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
It's the local council. I think it's unfair for the local council | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
to be using taxpayers' resource to put out of business what is very | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
important in every local community. The local paper is a vigorous | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
scrutiny of the council. A chilly as the minister for | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
decentralisation, that is up to the people of Tower Hamlets to the | :50:51. | :50:57. | |
sides. If you are using power to try to shut out and shut down in | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
some cases the only people who can hold you to account, I think that | :51:00. | :51:08. | |
is unfair. What we've said is it is fair for people to communicate | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
their services and what they do, the councils, but not to put out a | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
weekly newspaper. So you are telling people what the shape of | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
the ring should be. We are saying there is a code which would be | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
reasonable for no more than four Tynesider for a council to put out | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
a newsletter. Macro managing now. That is not very decentralised. Why | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
don't you go and hold their hand and tell them what to write? It is | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
a question of not using power and abusing power to actually | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
entrenched your grip on it. You have to have other voices, you have | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
to have diversity and competition. It councils are using public funds | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
to drive out businesses, I think that is wrong. Of course it is | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
wrong, but I agree it should be decided at a local level. I don't | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
think government should be intervening legally. I think Louise | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
has raised some important points today. Local papers are important | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
but they are under threat for lots of different reasons. There are | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
very few local authorities that publish something like that. It's | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
the first time I've seen it. I don't think that is the main factor | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
in the decline of local newspapers. In Liverpool, the Daily Post has | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
just gone weekly. Do you have something like that in Liverpool? | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
Not like that. I've never seen something like that. I know it is a | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
factor in advertising. I remember in Enfield, having it raised by | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
local newspapers there. But I think it should be decided locally. | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
agree with everything that Stephen has just said. I think Louise made | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
some important points. I think they are very important to local and | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
civic life. But I think the reasons they are declining may in part be | :52:46. | :52:53. | |
influenced by that, but there are wider factors at play. The only | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
thing that is going to hold a local council to account is being trodden | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
or Le Beau Bai that same local council. Most local newspapers, and | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
I started in local newspapers, is that they are in the pockets of the | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
local council. You don't get B-list journalism from most local | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
newspapers. I challenge that. I think local newspapers are there to | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
hold both MPs and their councils to account. Local newspapers didn't do | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
the expenses scandal. In order to carry out the sort of | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
investigations you are talking about into local councils, that is | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
expensive. I'm not saying that it is right that it shouldn't be there, | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
but it is expensive to do. Who will find that level, apart from the | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
idea of a big state subsidy, to fund high-powered local journalists | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
to do that? We do not need a big state subsidy, we need a level | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
playing field. We need the Department of Transport not to pull | :53:47. | :53:54. | |
their advertisements from the back of local papers. My local paper has | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
been holding the council to account. Let's move on to the issue which to | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
be more famous for. I'm sure you're getting good coverage in your local | :54:06. | :54:16. | |
:54:16. | :54:22. | ||
Let me come back to this. There is a clear argument, you have said | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
quite clearly that this key phrase in the select committee report on | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
Murdoch, that he is not a fit person to run an international | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
company. I will come to international in a minute. Whereas | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
Mr Farrelly, a Labour MP of the select committee, said this was | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
discussed. You are quite clear it was not discussed. It was not | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
discussed. I've just seen Paul in the House of Commons, and he has | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
admitted that he got himself confused. The amendments were | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
tabled before Easter by Mr Tom Watson and never discussed at all | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
until they were brought up on Monday. I've confirmed this today | :55:00. | :55:10. | |
with Damien colleague -- with my colleagues. He said he was ambushed. | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
He was asked a straight question. He said he was caught unawares and | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
hadn't seen what I said on Newsnight. There is a difference in | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
saying and amend was -- an amendment was tabled and saying it | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
was discussed. It was not discussed until Monday. And no Labour MP | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
requested we discuss what has been the headline of the report, that | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
Rupert Murdoch was not a fit person. I told Tom it would be the headline | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
and that everything else would be overshadowed. I think he'd worked | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
that out. Paul Rees on the committee offered Tom our vote on | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
the report if he would take that out, but that was only discussed | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
after nine months of investigation on Monday. Or clarity, on the issue | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
of whether Rupert Murdoch is a fit person to run an international | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
company or any kind of major media company, there was no discussion. | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
No discussion until Monday, the final meeting we had. All of our | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
investigations, nine months on, it wasn't discussed. It was tabled | :56:06. | :56:13. | |
before Easter and not discussed until Monday. Thank you but | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
clarifying that. Every once in a while on The Daily Politics, we | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
hear from a politician so loyal, and we hear that often, he will | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
bravely agree with anything, absolutely anything his or her | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
leader has to say. They might consider jumping in front of a bus | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
if they thought there was a promotion in it, present company | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
accepted. I'm not sure about that! | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
But even Westminster's finest yes men could learn a thing or two from | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
the Australian Minister being interviewed him on Sky News | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
Australia. Do you think you should return to the Speaker's chair while | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
the civil claims are still being played out? I understand that the | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
Prime Minister has addressed this in a press conference in Turkey. I | :56:56. | :57:02. | |
haven't seen what she said. But let me say I support what it is that | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
she said. And on, you haven't seen what she said... But I support what | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
my Prime Minister has said. What is your view? My view is what the | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
Prime Minister's view is. Surely you must have your own a view on | :57:15. | :57:23. | |
this. No, it is such a general question. It is a specific question | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
about someone who should we turn back to the Speaker's chair while | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
facing charges of sexual harassment. There should be no tolerance for | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
sexual harassment. That is my view. On the other hand, these matters | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
have yet to be established and their support for our Prime | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
Minister has said. But you don't know what that is. I'm sure she is | :57:42. | :57:48. | |
right. I wish my children would say that! That was the Australian | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
Workplace Relations Minister. I will offer it to you, has that ever | :57:51. | :57:58. | |
happened to you? That has been brought over here by the whips | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
office as a training video. What about for you? What lessons do you | :58:03. | :58:11. | |
take away from that? I agree with that. It could get very confusing. | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
That is hilarious. But he knew what he was doing. He didn't stumble | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
into that. When we do this again, do you think he will have had a | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
promotion? He will be Deputy Prime Minister! His boss might not be | :58:26. | :58:36. | |
:58:36. | :58:39. | ||
Prime Minister! That is it for today. Our thanks to our guests. | :58:39. | :58:44. |