Browse content similar to 29/06/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics on Friday. It looks | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
like it could be another bad day for British banks. They are under | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
fire again, this time for failings in the way they sold a complex | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
financial product to small businesses. Bank of England | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
governor Mervyn King says change is needed in the culture of the | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
banking industry. I think we worked that out ourselves. Meanwhile, | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
Barclays' chief executive Bob Diamond has said he will not resign | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
despite criticism of his bank for rigging a key international | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
interest rate. We sent Adam out with the mood box to see whether | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
anyone still trusts the banks. A European leaders agreed new | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
measures in another attempt to restore financial stability to the | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
Eurozone. They have also approved a 120 billion euro plan to boost | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
economic growth. And we take a look back at an | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
eventful week in the Westminster village. | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
With me today, Camilla Cavendish from the Times and Rafael Behr from | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
the New Statesman. First, let's turn our eyes to Europe, because | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
after emergency overnight talks, Eurozone leaders have agreed new | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
measures to bolster ailing banks and over indebted governments. | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
Asian and European stock markets have risen sharply on the news. But | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
how they perform later today is another matter. The European | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
Council President, Herman van Rompuy, described the measures as a | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
breakthrough. The agreement is aimed particularly at rescuing | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
Spain's troubled banks and reducing borrowing costs of southern | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
European countries. This is what the Prime Minister, who was not | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
part of this agreement, had to say this morning. The countries of the | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
Eurozone did take important steps forward last night. For a long time, | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
we have said more action needs to be taken for short-term financial | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
stability. More to recapitalise banks, to use firewalls, to drive | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
down interest rates and create greater stability. They took | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
important steps forward last night. There is still work to do. | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
With us now, Sharon Bowles, a Liberal Democrat MEP, and also | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
chair of the European Parliament's economic and monetary affairs | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
committee. And the Conservative MP John Barron is with us, too. Sharon | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
Bowles, let me come to you first. Does this represent a step-change | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
in the Eurozone's efforts to sort itself out, or is it just a bigger | :03:24. | :03:32. | |
sticking plaster? It is a bit of sticking plaster, and one move | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
towards this Aof greater integration. The cars we will have | :03:38. | :03:46. | |
a banking union? Well, it is part of the banking union proposals. The | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
supervision by the ECB is the right way for it to go. There was a fight | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
as to whether it should be the ECB or the European Banking Authority. | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
The ECB fits much better and also works better for the UK. This means | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
the European bail-out funds, the temporary one and then the | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
permanent one, will, in return for buying Spanish bank bonds, they | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
will have to take on to their balance sheet for billions of | :04:15. | :04:22. | |
euros' worth of dodgy Spanish bank shares, correct? Yes. That is | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
really encouraging if you are a German taxpayer. The problem is | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
that neutralising the sovereign debt was difficult. But they have | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
not done that. Neutralising bank debt is even bigger, so they still | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
need to find some way to bring down the cost of sovereign debt without | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
resorting to the bail-out mechanisms. But there is a step | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
towards a banking union, which will be run by the Germans, no doubt. | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
They are already in control of the committee to set it up. The bail- | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
out mechanisms will be able to put money directly onto the dodgy | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
banks' balance sheets rather than through the Government's, so it | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
doesn't amount to sovereign debt. But there will also be able to buy | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
a sovereign debt as well, not the ECB, but the bail-out mechanisms | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
will be able to buy dodgy sovereign debt to add to that dodgy bank | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
shares. It sounds dodgy to me. The problem is that there is an | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
enormous amount of debt in the system, and no amount of moving the | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
debt between government and banks or vice versa can conceal or erode | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
its scale. Until you address that, everything else is sticking | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
plasters. This must be the 20th summit we have had. It has done | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
more than usual. A bit more, but it has not solved the problem in the | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
sense that we still have enormous debt. If you really want a | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
sustainable long-term solution, you have to narrow the gap between what | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
governments earn and spend, make economies more competitive. Where | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
are the sweeping supply-side reforms needed to encourage greater | :06:02. | :06:09. | |
growth? Mrs Merkel, in some ways, retreated from the position she had | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
before. That is the position of the New Statesman, which described Mrs | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
Merkel as the most dangerous German leader since Hitler. I did not | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
realise the New Statesman was a tabloid. You must be happy. Those | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
are not my words, it is a view. We are an ecumenical publication. This | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
has been a defeat for Angela Merkel to an extent. The big picture with | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
this crisis has always been that at some stage, if they want to save | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
the Eurozone, Germany has to put its economy up as collateral for | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
the debts of the southern European states. The German economy is not | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
big enough. They need to demonstrate to the markets to give | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
them the confidence that institutionally, there will be | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
integration at a scale that will tell everyone they are committed to | :06:58. | :07:07. | |
the project. As you say, German taxpayers are not keen on that. | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
Berry's a lot of trust -- they need a lot of trust in the southern | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
European states that they would behave in a way that would make | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
this work. But yesterday, we saw a softening of the German position. | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
They were saying, OK, you need the money. The Italians and Spanish | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
were saying, trust us, we will do the fiscal discipline. The banking | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
union will be supervised by the Germans, and the Germans will be in | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
direct control of the behaviour of every systemic Club Med bank. For | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
Britain, as the capital of European finance, is it a danger or an | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
opportunity that the Eurozone is going to a banking union? It is | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
both. Clearly, the City is concerned. Since 2007, the EU has | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
started to swing away from creating a level playing field, which | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
benefited the city enormously, towards endless levels of medalling, | :08:05. | :08:15. | |
:08:15. | :08:17. | ||
which the City does not like. There will be some business lost. But on | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
the other hand, it is firstly vital that we get the Eurozone sorted out. | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
Nobody will benefit if these countries collapse. Secondly, the | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
City is the gateway to the world, not just Europe. We have the second | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
biggest insurance industry in the world. And we set LIBOR. Which we | :08:38. | :08:47. | |
will come on to. If what do you think? Is a banking union an | :08:47. | :08:55. | |
opportunity for Britain, or a disadvantage? I agree that it is a | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
bit of both. It is better than try to have supervision that covers us | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
as well by the European Banking Authority, which would not have had | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
the adequate powers to supervise a large systemic bank. So it is | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
better than the alternative. If you have the ECB playing a role for the | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
Eurozone, a consequence of that is that a parallel role has to be | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
recognised for the Bank of England. This argument about maximum | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
harmonisation of capital has to be eroded, because they are saying you | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
have to take account of monetary policy in supervision. What is | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. That applies to the UK | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
as well. That helps resolve the tension. We still do not know the | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
shape of it, though. The City of London seems to have prospered well | :09:50. | :09:57. | |
in the shadow of a bigger monetary union known as the United States. | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
Are you any closer on your petition numbers? IUD gathering names among | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
Tories or the public in general? This is simply Conservative | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
backbenchers. About 100. The referendum will take place in the | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
next Parliament, but they will be put on the statute book in this | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
Parliament, making the case for a referendum. The wording will be | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
decided once we have had an informed debate. That debate has | :10:24. | :10:34. | |
:10:34. | :10:39. | ||
yet to be had. So you are asking people to sign a petition with no | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
idea what the referendum will be about? Well, yes, because at the | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
end of the day, we need a debate as to what should be on the referendum. | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
But it is about our future relationship with the EU, because | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
they can be no doubt, particularly after the Eurozone crisis, that the | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
EU is fundamentally changing. And people want a say as to our future | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
relationship. Will the Europeans be happy that you have been chair of | :11:07. | :11:15. | |
this committee? This is something I face almost day in, day out. There | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
is a fair degree of respect that how I have handled matters. The | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
parliament in general is united in that we do not divide. We are a | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
parliament for the EU. I would not take the pessimistic view you have | :11:30. | :11:36. | |
about the Eurozone. If the euro wants to be a reserve currency, it | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
can't do that. The US doesn't do that for the dollar. And I think | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
the UK is right. It is against the single market. We have to leave it | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
there. No doubt there will be lots more discussion about where this | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
leaves the City of London. Speaking of the City of London, who | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
would think the London interbank offered rate, or LIBOR, would kick | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
up such a financial and political storm? Assets but 99% of you didn't | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
even know what LIBOR was until this boat. Some of you may still not. | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
Well, it would be a storm if a bank was found trying to rid it for | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
financial gain. That is what bhajis was found try to do, and they have | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
had to pay a hefty price for it. But not the resignation of their | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
chief executive, Bob Diamond, or even the chairman has not been put | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
up for ritual sacrifice yeah, but they paid �290 million in fines. | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
This is what the Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King had to | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
say about the affair a few minutes ago. There must be many people who | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
work in the banking industry today who know that they are honest, | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
hard-working and feel they have been let down by some of their | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
colleagues and leaders. I hoped everyone now understands that | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
something went very wrong with the UK banding -- banking industry, and | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
we need to put it right. That goes both to the question of culture in | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
the banking industry and to the structure of the banking industry, | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
from excessive levels of compensation to shoddy treatment of | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
customers, to a deceitful manipulation of one of the most | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
important interest rates, and now this morning to news of yet another | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
misselling scandal. We can see that we need a real change in the | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
culture of the industry. That was the Governor of the Bank of England. | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
We are joined now by our political correspondent, who also doubles up | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
adds the BBC's Mary Poppins, as you can see. The chief executive of | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
Barclays, Bob Diamond, sent this letter to Andrew Tyrie, chair of | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
the select committee. He will have to appear before them. It was quite | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
a defiant letter. How has it gone down? I do not think MPs will be | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
impressed with the tone of this letter, because Bob Diamond says he | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
is happy to come to the committee to talk about what has gone on at | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
Barclays, but there is no hint of any kind of apology. He admits that | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
there was inappropriate behaviour, but he says this was limited to a | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
small number of individuals and there is no suggestion that it went | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
to the top of the bank. That kind of response will not satisfy | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
politicians across all parties, who feel that the way this rate was | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
manipulated, and you heard from Mervyn King talking about cynical | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
manipulation of a rate which affected the mortgages of ordinary | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
people, and politicians from all parties are questioning how the | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
bank is possibly going to manage to rebuild trust with the public while | :14:47. | :14:56. | |
Bob Diamond remains in charge. For some strange reason, we thought | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
that feeling on the banks on the high streets could be running high. | :15:00. | :15:08. | |
They may like them, they may not. There have been loads of stories | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
about banks mucking up. When we asked people do you still have | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
faith in the banking system, where will they make their deposit, yes | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
or no? Reluctantly, I will say yes. Why is that? It needs regulating, | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
obviously. At the moment I know things look bad, but I think it's | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
probably not the the banking system we shouldn't have faith in but more | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
the bankers themselves. No. Why is that? Because sometimes they will | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
take my money out of my account but I don't know why. From what I have | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
been reading lately it's quite bad, I don't trust it myself. But you | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
still use a bank? I have to, I get paid into a bank. It's the only way. | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
Why have you said no? I don't really know why, because it's a | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
business, and it's about profit. It's not about people who have a | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
bank account. I don't think I have ever had faith in the banks. It's | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
going to be a no. I hate credit cards and things, I try not to have | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
an overdraft or anything. Yeah, it's all gone up the creek. | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
vote with your pennies and pounds? I have a big penny jar at home that | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
needs counting. Do you trust the system? Have you come to | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
investigate Barclays? Well, there are absolutely loads of | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
banks on this street, so let's go and head to another one. | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
You said no, why? Well, it's just what's in the press at the moment. | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
You I think it's probably a reflection of dodgy dealings going | :16:41. | :16:49. | |
on there. Would you like to give us your | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
views on the banks while you are waiting for the bus? I trust them, | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
even though I work for them. are in the belly of the beast? | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
but I trust them. It's not the problem. What is the problem? | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
Government. You work in a bank, are you a trustworthy person? Very. | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
They get the blame for things that weren't their fault, so I am not | :17:12. | :17:19. | |
sure who to vote for. In the middle? Try to balance it. You are | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
like a hedge fund. People have been so keen to vote and voted for one | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
option overwhelmingly, it looks like the banking system is | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
seriously overdrawn. You don't keep your money under the mattress? | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
Might get robbed. I got to have enough for my funeral, you know, | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
because I won't be here too long. She won't need that money for a | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
long, long time. We did ask the Treasury if a Minister was | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
available and to our shock, horror and surprise, none was. No idea why. | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
But there you go. It's Friday. With us however is the shadow | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
Treasury Minister, Chris Leslie. Why did you allow this to happen | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
under Labour? Well, I mean, hindsight is a wonderful thing. | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
When Labour came in it had a whole series of unregulated self- | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
regulated financial services. We created a Financial Services | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
Authority and gave it some regulatory powers. Of course, we | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
then had this global credit crunch, regulators, governments around the | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
world didn't spot the absolute appalling risk-taking going on. The | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
question now is today with a contemporary legislation before | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
parliament what are the judgments that need to be made? I think there | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
are serious doubts about whether the Government are going far enough | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
today. Maybe, but your only financial services and markets Act | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
failed to regulate LIBOR, didn't mention LIBOR. You left it to the | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
banks to fix LIBOR themselves. Why did you do that? Well, and LIBOR | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
has been unregulated since it began. Interestingly over the past year | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
several of my Labour colleagues, including myself on the 6th March, | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
raised this question about surely LIBOR should now begin to come | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
under the regulator - I put this... Shouldn't you be asking Ed Balls, | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
Ed Miliband and Alistair Darling, they were the people who who didn't | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
do it. We have known there has been some sort of investigation for the | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
past year into LIBOR. I put to the Minister on 6th March do you have a | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
view about whether this should be regulated. His answer to me in a | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
single word, no. No view at all. That's the astonishing thing. Of | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
course they've been forced to U- turn yesterday when this blew up. I | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
think now we need to recognise that this isn't just a question of | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
regulatory fail failures with one individual and one bank, this could | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
be across the whole system. We are starting to head to a situation | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
where we really need to take a systemic view about whether bigger | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
reforms are necessary. It's interesting almost everything you | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
did has fallen apart, hasn't it? You put in a tri-partite regulatory | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
system, that didn't survive the crash. No longer exists. No more | :19:59. | :20:05. | |
boom and bust. We have had the biggest bust since the 1930s. You | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
imposed PFI on the NHS, they're now going - hospitals are going bust, | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
as well. You dined out out on a light touch regulation which was | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
really another word for the wild west. I am not going to claim | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
everything... Not a great record. Not everything being rosy. It's all | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
all withered on the vine. There were some steps taken to improve | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
regulation, not enough. But the idea that the Chancellor or the | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
Conservatives have some sort of insight here that the previous | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
Government didn't, they were not saying regulate more heavily, | :20:35. | :20:44. | |
Andrew. Excuse me, as you know,... They criticised us for regulating. | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
Could you show me where you urged Labour to do more and answer comes | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
there none. Why are you not calling for Bob Diamond's resignation? | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
suspect because this is more than just one chief executive of one | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
bank. We are talking about multiple executives. Why shouldn't we have a | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
huge clearout of this generation of bankers that's brought us to our | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
knees and start again? I suspect that's probably going to be on the | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
cards. I really do think that we are talking about a much more | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
systemic inquiry. There are plenty of banks - but why not... Why are | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
you not calling for Bob Diamond's resignation? There could be a move | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
between regulators slapping people on the wrist and finding them and | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
into criminal investigations. There was some doubt yesterday about do | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
the regulators have the criminal powers. It's clear now that the | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
Serious Fraud Office, the City of London Police do have the criminal | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
capability to pursue conspiracy to defraud and so forth. That's why we | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
have to be a little bit circumspect about the criminal implications. | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
The Serious Fraud Office doesn't do financial regulation, it implements | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
the criminal law. That's a different matter. Let me come to | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
our journalists here. Shouldn't we now have a Leveson-style inquiry | :22:01. | :22:08. | |
into the banks? I wouldn't wish a Leveson Inquiry on anybody. A judge | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
who knows something about banking to do it as opposed to the current | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
one on journalism. I think we have had a huge problem in this country | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
because we haven't prosecuted. In the US they've taken a lot of | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
people to court, pursued inquiries. A lot of people have gone to jail. | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
They've had a sort of truth and reconciliation in a sense. One | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
thing we all need in this country is to get over this issue, restore | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
banks, we also need to have faith in our banks again. I agree we need | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
to do something to punch that but I don't want a two-year inquiry. I | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
think this is quite simple. Either you find a way to prosecute which | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
does not - you are saying there is a way, maybe there is or the very | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
least you have to name the 14 traders in Barclays whose e-mails - | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
that would be a factor. Who is this? You have to have heads to | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
roll. There is no other answer. They don't seem to learn. We now | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
have this FSA findings on the swap, mis-selling, rather complicated. | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
The RBS statement, and it's my bank, it beggars belief. They say in the | :23:09. | :23:17. | |
case of a small number of less sophisticated systems who entered | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
into more complex swap products we have agreed to move directly to - I | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
mean... This is the essential point and why people are angry at a much | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
bigger level than thinking some of it is dodgy and that feels rum, | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
because going back over the period at the peak of the financial crisis | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
2007-8, there is now a feeling that the people who arguably were the | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
most responsible for this are the people who have been given immunity | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
from the economic consequences of it. So the whole bail out process | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
of the whole banking sector and then the subsequent recession and | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
you can argue about the causes of that as much as you like, but it | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
feels to a lot of people like a transfer of wealth from people at | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
the bottom to people at the top. People who caused it in the first | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
place. When you hear attitudes like that and see Bob Diamond and the | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
way he behaves the impunity that they seem to have at a sort of | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
level of justice when they might or might not have been committing acts | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
of fraud, sort of reflects the impunity they have, the immunity | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
they have. I didn't see Marie And toeupbet runs the RBS. If there was | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
one thing you could do if you were in power to help get the show back | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
on the road, what would that be? Looking at whether the regulatory, | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
needs to extend to areas like the LIBOR, but on the swap mis-selling | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
they have this this independent commission, they said | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
derequiretives - the Chancellor is still saying those should be in the | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
retail. I think another U-turn is beckoning. Surely not! I suspect so. | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
I can't believe it. Chris, thank you very much for being with us. So, | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
Germany not knocked out of the Euros, Rafael Nadal not Goked out | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
of women -- got knocked out of Wimbledon. Bob Diamond's still got | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
a job. Let's look at the week in 60 seconds. | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
Three times wasn't enough for the man who used to rule at Number 10. | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
Tony Blair would like to be PM again, but doesn't fancy his | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
chances of a comeback. In Northern Ireland, they were building bridges | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
with a handshake when the the Queen met former IRA commander, now | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness. At Westminster, it was | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
time for another budget U-turn, this time on fuel backs -- tax. Who | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
knew what and when. The Junior Minister left us none the wiser. | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
When were you told? I have been involved in this for sometime and... | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
You didn't take the decision, obviously? The Chancellor and Prime | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
Minister did, when were you told? We had a collective discussion of | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
that... The policy we have all been waiting for has finally been | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
unveiled. Nick Clegg even took to his soap box to make the case for | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
Lords reform. This comes down to a really, really simple idea. It's | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
called democracy. He might have to shout louder to get the Tory | :26:07. | :26:15. | |
backbenches on side. OK, let's pick up on the back of | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
Nick Clegg there, how will Labour play this House of Lords reform? | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
They are in favour of a elected chamber but they're also the | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
opposition. They're divided over this. Ed Miliband's position is you | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
can see some clarity if you look hard enough, which is that they're | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
in favour of the principle of Lords reform so they'll vote at a second | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
reading of the bill, they'll let it go through if it gets that far. But | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
they are not - they want to have plenty of time in parliament to | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
fiddle with it, argue with it, they don't want to see it rushed through | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
quickly. The problem is that at least half of Labour MPs think that | :26:48. | :26:56. | |
this is really an opportunity to ideally cut Nick Clegg's head until | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
all the Lib Dems are curled up in the floor begging for mercy. They | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
should be getting that crowbar in and trying to prise them apart. | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
you add in what he is saying about the Labour attitude to the view on | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
the Tory backbenches where there is a huge rebellion brewing, you have | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
to wonder whether this is ever going to see the light of day. | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
Certainly there's nobody outside of parliament who cares a hoot about | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
this, which is another problem for Liberal Democrats. But they're | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
desperate to cling on to this. It's important. I think this issue is | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
the one that could break the coalition. It's another reason why | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
Labour is so interested in it. The Conservatives are really split. | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
David Cameron knows that he has to back Nick Clegg. The other issue, | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
fundamentally the idea of electing people from party lists on 15-year | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
terms, it's nonsense. That's no accountability. This is a register | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
for ex-politicians to sit around. That's the biggest problem the MPs | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
have, is you work hard as a MP and most do work quite hard and you | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
might get sacked every four or five years by the electorate. Are you | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
going to put up with some swaggering Senator turning up on | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
your patch saying I am here, I have a better democratic mandate for you | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
but I have a job for life as well or 15 years which in political | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
terms is life. The interesting thing that I found talking to | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
people around parliament about this, is that the Lib Dems are persuaded | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
that David Cameron has given Nick Clegg all the assurances possible | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
that he will whip his MPs behind this and they've looked them in the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
whites of the eyes and the Conservative MPs are saying it's - | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
we can choose whether we like this or not. They say the whips speak to | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
them with fingers crossed. Thank you both for today. I am going to | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
be back on Sunday with the Sunday Politics at midday. I will be | :28:45. | :28:51. |