Browse content similar to 24/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning. This is the Daily Politics. First some good news - | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
the economy is expected to return to growth tomorrow. Music to the | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
ears of any beleaguered Chancellor. With unemployment and inflation | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
falling, we'll be asking, yes, we will, is George Osborne a first- | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
class operator? Maintaining Auntie's independence from | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
government - the Chairman of the BBC says the Jimmy Savile affair | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
should not bring it into question. Omnishambles in Scotland - Alex | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
Salmond's been finding out that life as First Minister is not plain | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
sailing. We'll be finding out why. And it's over 100 years since they | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
first marched on Parliament. They're back again today. We'll be | :01:19. | :01:29. | |
:01:29. | :01:32. | ||
talking to a modern-day Suffragette. Very appropriate day given the | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
ruling by the Supreme Court on the public sector workers in Birmingham. | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
They've lost their case. All that and more coming up in the next 90 | :01:40. | :01:49. | |
minutes of British broadcasting at its finest. So far, there hasn't | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
been an inquiry into us. Anyway, with us for the duration we have a | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
cast that could grace any British blockbuster. OO7 eat your heart out, | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
because on the Daily Politics red carpet today, we have our very own | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
Sean Connery, Roger Moore and Ursula Andress. Former Lib Dem | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
leader, Charles Kennedy, the former Police Minister, Nick Herbert and | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
from Labour, the Shadow Health Minister, Liz Kendall. Welcome to | :02:09. | :02:19. | |
:02:19. | :02:19. | ||
you all. Now first, let's talk about Europe because suprise, | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
suprise the Government appears to be heading for a bit of showdown | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
over the EU budget. The European Commission and the European | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
Parliament both indicated yesterday that they want big increases in the | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
budget, which could add �2 billion to Britain's committments over the | :02:31. | :02:41. | |
:02:41. | :02:50. | ||
next two years. That's up to 2121. Nick, what should the Government | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
do? If necessary, veto. On the grounds that one trillion euros is | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
enough to be getting on with. That actually, the situation in the EU | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
with debt, with public spending cuts, means that governments at all | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
levels ought to be contraining costs too. It's absurd that the EU | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
at that time, or the Commission, is proposing and the Parliament is | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
proposing, an inflation-busting increase in the budget. If you look | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
at the British Government for instance, the size of Government | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
departments is being reduced by a third, so the costs are being tack | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
indown. As well as public spending. But, the British, Germans and | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
French all agree that the budget shouldn't go up by as much as the | :03:38. | :03:47. | |
Parliament want. Mr Hol hol and -- Mr Francois Hollande and Angela | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
Merkel do think it should rise in inflation. What is the British | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
line? Should it go up at all? don't know - my view is that we | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
should reduce costs so I don't think why a deal at inflation is | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
acceptable. It should be frozen? Look at the spending cuts that are | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
across the eurozone and across the EU at the moment. They are very | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
substantial. It's absurd that governments should not be seeking | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
to reduce spending. According to the papers this morning, Charles | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
Kennedy, your leader is, "in lock- step", with David Cameron over | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
wanting a freeze in real terms over the next seven years? He has seen | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
:04:44. | :05:04. | ||
Mr Mr Von rum my. -- Vera Zvonareva. -- Donald Rumsfeld. -- Von Rumpey. | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
As President of the European Union movement, it's only a matter of | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
time, that's how I feel. It's only a matter of time, you are happy for | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
the British Government to veto anything more than a freeze? Well, | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
let's hope it doesn't get to a veto, because that's not healthy politics. | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
It may be good short-term headlines for David Cameron a couple of weeks | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
ago, but it doesn't feed through. I think they are right, I have to say, | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
in the age of austerity, whether one agrees or not, they are right | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
to say you have to be realistic here and you can't go for | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
inflation-busting increases. Whether it turns out to be a freeze, | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
or whether it's somewhere between a freeze and the current French and | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
jerl an position, well, we -- German position, well, we know what | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
Europe is like, there will be a dispute and be settled in the early | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
hours. What would Labour's position be? We want to see a real-terms | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
reduction in the EU's budget. We tabled a motion on this back in | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
July. We voted in favour of a real- term reduction in it. Are you in | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
favour of the veto? I think Charles is right, you won't get what you | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
actually want, which is a real-term reduction. You are not going to get | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
that anyway. You would be lucky even to get a freeze. | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
Government's not going to get us there, because it'site lated from | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
our traditional, national allies, but it's right-wing political | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
allies. What allies do we have in wanting a reduction? I think we | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
would find alleys. -- allies. There are countries in the past who have | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
done that. That would be part of the - Who? -- that would be part of | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
our negotiations. I don't know. I think many countries would say, | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
when we're being asked to make huge cuts, how on earth can the EU be | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
asking for anything else? If the budget goes ahead and is increased | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
by a reasonable amount, not as much as they want, it won't be that or | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
even the Parliament, if it's a real-terms increase will Labour | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
back David Cameron vetoing the increase? We want a reduction and | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
we'll negotiate now for that. you back him? I'm not going to deal | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
in hypotheticals. It won't be in a few weeks. It's about what it | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
should be doing now to get a reduction. The position of Labour | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
MPs in Parliament is very clear. your Government doesn't agree a | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
deal then all that happens is you roll over the 2013 budget into 2014 | :07:43. | :07:51. | |
and that involves a 2% rise? So it goes up and you can't veto that? | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
don't know the mechanics. That's the suggestion that we have no | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
choice and we accept it. That cannot be right. You should be | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
prepared to accept 2% anyway, because if you don't you'll get | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
that? We'll take a stand and make the argument for a reduction. I | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
find it incredible that people, including all the MEPs, not the | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
Conservatives, but certainly Labour MEPs who this week voted for this, | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
who are immune from the idea that they have a responsibility to | :08:16. | :08:26. | |
:08:26. | :08:30. | ||
reduce costs at a time of austerity. I think this dilemma points to the | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
difficulties of saying we'll waive the veto. It's not as simple as | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
that, for the very reasons outlined. OK. I'm glad we're not there with | :08:39. | :08:47. | |
the tabloids. Thank you for that. Now to that thorny issue of | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
prisoner voting. Conservative MPs have reacted angrily to reports | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
that the Government is drawing up a draft law that will give some | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
prisoners the vote. In May, the European Court of Human Rights gave | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
Britain six months to extend the franchise to prisoners. The | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
Government has denied that legislation is in the pipeline, | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
although it has confirmed that officials are in the final stages | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
of negotiations on how to respond to the ruling. In the last hour, | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
the Attorney-General, Dominic Grieve, has been speaking to the | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
House of Commons Justice Committee about the potential consequences | :09:12. | :09:20. | |
for the UK if the Government ignores the Convention. It's at | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
least technically possible we would certainly be in breach. There's an | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
issue, which has been mentioned previously, that I spoke about in | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
Parliament, that there would be damaging claims stacking up against | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
the United Kingdom Government in respect of individual prisoners. | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
They would claim that their right to vote had been denied them. | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
Therefore, that would be costly to the United Kingdom Government, | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
unless it chose not to pay, in which case that would be a further | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
breach of international obligations. As to what the end game would be, | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
whether it would mean that the United Kingdom decided to leave the | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
Council of Europe, or be expelled from the Council of Europe, I don't | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
think I would wish to hazard a guess. Joining us now, fresh from | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
that Select Committee, is Steve Brine. Are you prepared to go down | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
that line? I was there this morning and I heard him say that, among | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
other things. Referring back to the previous conversation too, what we | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
should probably try to do is take the heat out of this. I don't think | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
confrontation and fights with Europe is the British way. I don't | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
think it's a sensible way. I think we should step back and remember | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
what the British public think about this. Parliament reflected what the | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
British public think of this earlier this year, when it was | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
clear that it does not want to give the vote across the board to | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
prisoners. You said across the board, so are you prepared to give | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
some prisoners on short sentences the vote? Well, I this I that we | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
have to actually look at some facts. Fine defaulters, contempt of court, | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
have the vote. People who are on remand have the vote. It's not a | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
case that all prisoners don't have the vote. The ruling was quite | :11:00. | :11:07. | |
clear, and it said it would be illegal under European law to have | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
an abroad-the-board blanket ban, but listening to the Attorney- | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
General this morning, and it was the first time he's been before us, | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
I think there's a way out for the British Government. What is it? | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
shouldn't be of any great surprise that official are looking at this, | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
because they have to by the end of next month. I think there is a way | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
out here, whereby Parliament is sovereign in this and Parliament | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
can legislate. Parliament has made its view clear and will necessarily | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
make the view clear again. There's no reason why Parliament can't make | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
the ruling on this and response on this. I'm sure it will. Right, but | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
what are you suggesting should be the Government's response? I think | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
the Government can respond with the status quo. Nobody has suggested | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
that rapists and murderers should be given the vote, but there are | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
already -- Then you are in clear breach of the obligations and the | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
expectations from Europe and that could lead to damages, being sued | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
by prisoners and your international reputation. These are the things | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
the Attorney-General is saying. You could find that it would be pretty | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
tough to be at the wrong end of this ruling? I think we would be in | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
breach with an across-the-board blanket ban. We don't have that. | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
Unless we were to go down that rot and legislate for one, that would | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
put us in breach. I think there is a compromise here and a very | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
British one here, that can allow us to bring forward the legislation, | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
which we have to do, without this confrontational way of going about | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
things with the European Union. Thank you very much. Nick Herbert, | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
do you agree? This compromise, should the Government bring forward | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
draft legislation or should they ignore the ruling? I don't think | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
the House of Commons will vote for any form of prisoner voting. I | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
think that's the bottom line, actually. Should they be given the | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
opportunity? First, should prisoners be allowed to vote. We | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
can discuss that. I don't think they should. I don't think it's a | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
human right to have a vote when you have a sentence. And secondly, it's | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
who decides. We should have a House of Commons elected by the people | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
and the House should decide. Our own House of Commons has said no. | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
Our courts have said no. We have something called the Supreme Court, | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
but apparently it's not supreme. It said no, the House was right to be | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
able to disagree and now we have the situation where we have the | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
European Court seeking to override that. I think it's that that is | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
unacceptable and I do think that there may be room to continue to | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
kick the can down street, which is what has happened for years. The | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
court in Europe itself hardly progresses things quickly as we | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
have discovered. Would delay be the best way forward? I don't think | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
there's a point in the Government bringing forward to the House | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
measures that infight the House to do something that is simply it | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
won't do. They deny they'll bring forward the legislation. Charles | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
Kennedy, should some prisoners get the vote, more than the ones that | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
do currently? Yes. I think I have felt in principle and we have | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
argued when I was leader with great unpopularity, that should be the | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
case. Did you vote in favour at the last time it was discussed? Yes, we | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
were among the view voices in favour. We have put in the caveat | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
and I think Nick is saying and what Steve was saying is spot on, I'm on | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
the Council of Europe, the all- party representing Westminster. We | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
know because the only power that members of the Council of Europe | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
have got is we vote on who the European Court of Human Rights | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
judges are. It's not a Foreign Office, because we send senior | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
British judicial figures there. What about the damage to Britain? | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
They are not up for confrontation. They want to find a way through | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
this problem. It's a upon for them, because they don't want to be in | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
breach of the dispute and they recognise the problem for us, for | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
the democratic reasons. One of the suggestions we put forward, we | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
might want to revisit this, both from the Council of Europe point of | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
view and from the House of Commons point of view, is maybe you could | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
allow High Court judges to have discretion in ruling on individual | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
cases, as to who could be able to vote and who might not. Jack Straw, | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
where he left the issue off, signed off on it, was perhaps you have a | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
four-year period and after four years the prisoner becomes eligible | :15:36. | :15:46. | |
:15:46. | :15:57. | ||
to be considered for voting rights. $:/STARTFEED. The problem at the | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
moment is we do not know what the Government's plan is. There is a | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
highly respected journalist who gives a report today that they are | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
going to bring forward a draft bill. Then it is denied. We are not clear | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
what their proposals are. One of the things that would be really | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
helpful if we saw the legal advice the Government has had and what the | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
implications are of this breach. But we are not getting that | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
information. That would help us start to see a way through. We have | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
been told in a few weeks we will find out because there has to be a | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
response by the end of November. The it is difficult for | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
parliamentarians to see is there a way through this without giving | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
prisoners the vote that does not get us into the beach? We need to | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
see that legal advice. Tomorrow sees the publication of the first | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
estimates of growth for the third quarter of this year. The | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
Chancellor wants an eagerly anticipated set of figures because | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
the economy is expected to have shown a return to growth in this | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
quarter after three-quarters of no growth. Some economists are | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
predicting up to 0.9%. They only used decimal points in the forecast | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
to show they have a sense of humour. Did you know there is finally light | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
at the end of the tunnel a company by a series of welcome signals? | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
Unemployment is down to 2.5 3 million. Inflation has dropped back | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
to 2.2%. Shut for his return to the High Street where retail sales | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
figures showed 1.5 increase in September compared to last year. | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
Tomorrow we will learn what a good old shunt from the Olympics has | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
given to give us a good increase in GDP. Is George Osborne a first | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
class Chancellor forgot the economy back on track with the prospect of | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
a high speed recovery? Or will it be a brief encounter with growth? | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
Charles Kennedy is saying you I mean by saying all that about Boy | :18:13. | :18:20. | |
George. Nick Herbert, is this a blip or is | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
it a return to growth? I do not know, we have to see the figures. | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
Most of the economists are suggesting there will be a return | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
to growth in the next couple of years, but that puts us pretty near | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
to the forecast of US growth. The rate of job creation in this | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
country is better than the United States. We have an employment which | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
is lower than many of our EU counterparts and is predicted to | :18:49. | :18:57. | |
continue to be low. I think there are some signs that the corner may | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
be beginning to return, but there are also difficulties. There is the | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
continued weak demand in the euro- zone. That has been the cause of | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
the reduced growth that we saw as against the Office for Budget | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
Responsibility's forecast a couple of years ago. It has been very | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
disappointing according to what they forecast. That is not in our | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
control. All such a collapse in domestic demand in Britain. The | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
median wage in Britain to date is 8% lower in real terms than what it | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
was in 2008. That is a collapse and domestic demand. That will be | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
helped by the fall in inflation. Consumers are spending, but it has | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
been taken up in a fuel price rises. Of course, there is a possibility | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
that inflation will begin to rise again because of the higher fuel | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
prices. The reduction in inflation is good from the point of view of | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
potential greater demand in the economy. Average wage rises are | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
rising more slowly, but they may cross in the next couple of months. | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
Is this a blip or is the economy going to return to growth? If we do | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
see us finally emerging from the longest double-dip recession, not | :20:18. | :20:25. | |
least thanks to the billions of pounds from Olympic ticket sales | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
and Olympic TV rights, we need to look at the big question, which is | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
what the underlying growth trends are. We will wait and see what | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
people say. My real concern is that even if we get a 1% growth figure | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
tomorrow that means the size of the economy is the same as last year. | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
There are big problems in terms of future growth, jobs and borrowing. | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
The fat the Chancellor is having to borrow �150 billion more than he | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
planned is a cause for concern. understand all that. It looks like | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
the third quarter will show some growth, but it could be specific to | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
the third quarter. What I am wondering is inured you... There | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
are problems. I we returning to growth even if it is weak growth? | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
Let's see what happens tomorrow and let's see what the other | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
organisations say. People like the OBR are now say we did predict much | :21:25. | :21:32. | |
higher growth. We are now concerned that in fact what has happened on | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
tax increases and public spending cuts has made the long term growth | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
in the economy... You are not going to answer my question, let's see if | :21:41. | :21:49. | |
Charles will answer it. Is it a blip, or is it any make and it may | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
not be anything like a boom, but are we returning to growth? There | :21:54. | :22:01. | |
is common consensus there is some return to growth. What I detect is | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
that there is a weary acceptance that we are not where we had hoped | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
to be at this stage. We are definitely not. But given the other | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
half of the parliament that is ahead of us, by the time of the | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
next election if you are looking at an election scenario of best case | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
which will still be pretty sluggish, probably on the plus side of the | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
equation, but not much. That is a difficult political scenario for | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
anybody. The mood changed I detect amongst the ministers is that. | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
danger for the coalition is there may well be a return to growth next | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
year. The Third Quartet may be a blip, but it will still be growth. | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
But it is not as we have no it coming out of a recession. Only | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
people like me will notice it. Voters will not notice it because | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
it will be so anaemic. You are right about what you said about | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
consumers' pockets. It has been difficult for people. The big | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
question were remain who has the right policy to get us back on | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
track, which means getting on top of the deficit and restoring as to | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
a position where we live within our means. The danger for Labour is | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
they appeared to have the same song, which is to borrow more and I do | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
not believe that the public accept that argument. The Government is | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
borrowing �150 billion more than they planned. Either banks lending | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
to businesses to grow and to individuals to get on the housing | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
ladder? We still have a very poor figures on that. Are we bring in | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
the long term unemployment down which has a big impact on people's' | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
lives? Are we seeing a real impact on incomes? If people cannot spend | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
that money because of food and fuel bills and the Government is not | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
taking the action it needs to get the prices down, then individuals | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
will not be going out and spending. If businesses and individuals are | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
not spending and the economy is not growing in that way, that is the | :24:15. | :24:22. | |
problem. The debt figures were an improvement on expectations. �150 | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
billion more borrowed. You cannot propose more borrowing, it is | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
completely the wrong position. have to move on. To buy what �100 | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
would have bought four years ago, you would have had to spend �116. | :24:40. | :24:46. | |
And wages have not risen by 16%. If your faith in great British | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
institutions is fast crumbling, I cannot think why, but mine is, fear | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
not, because there is one great British institution that will not | :24:55. | :25:02. | |
die. I am not talking about James Bond, he is not real. This is real, | :25:02. | :25:10. | |
the Daily Politics mug. These are the most sophisticated mugs in the | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
land. Here he is starring in his latest epic for you are mug only, | :25:18. | :25:27. | |
the man With the Golden mug. Licensed to mug. All right, I will | :25:27. | :25:35. | |
stop now. It took us all morning to think of those. If you want your | :25:35. | :25:44. | |
very own you will have to enter our guess the year competition. | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
Is it sky mug? Let's see if you can remember when | :25:50. | :26:00. | |
:26:00. | :26:00. | ||
this happened. # You have got to roll with it, you have got to take | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
it, you have got to say what you want to say, do not let anyone get | :26:07. | :26:17. | |
:26:17. | :26:20. | ||
in your way. #. Who dares, wins. We dare. We will | :26:20. | :26:30. | |
:26:30. | :26:51. | ||
# This is how we do it. #. I am glad the debate has started, | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
but it will for us us to look closely at clause four and we can | :26:57. | :27:07. | |
:27:07. | :27:12. | ||
To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
answer to our special address. You can see the full terms and | :27:18. | :27:25. | |
conditions on the website. It is coming up to midday and let's | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
take a look at Big Ben. It could only mean one thing. It is a bit | :27:29. | :27:38. | |
grey and misty. The seasons of Mr and snowflakes. Prime Minister's | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
Questions is on the way, and so is Nick Robinson. Let's talk for a | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
change about the BBC. We have not done that for 10 | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
minutes. It is the gift that keeps on giving. | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
We have got the chairman of the BBC trust in open-water with the | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
Culture Secretary. Rumours coming from across the Atlantic that Mark | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
Thomson the outgoing DG may lose his new position as chief executive | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
of the New York Times. When I saw that, I thought they cannot be | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
anything in that, and then that paper's editor is quoted as saying | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
it is worth considering whether he is the right person for the job. | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
And in other unnamed figures says he brings so much unwanted baggage. | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
Is our brand so damaged you cannot even go and run the New York Times? | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
What will be more interesting is to see whether it gets onto the floor | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
of the house. Ed Miliband a week or so ago said he thought there should | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
be a public inquiry as against the BBC commission's enquiry and the | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
NHS inquiry. But given the chance to raise it at Prime Minister's | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
Questions, he said he did not, he kept it at low-key. My | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
understanding is he wanted to carry on keeping it fairly low-key. I | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
think he might feel he wants to say something. The Prime Minister | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
similarly has wanted to not to appear to be ruling out an | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
independent inquiry, but up to now has backed up the inquiries as they | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
are. If politicians, party leaders, feel they have to wait in, it gets | :29:19. | :29:29. | |
more serious. The BBC has become a national punchbag. Members of | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
parliament after the expenses crisis, they might say it is your | :29:34. | :29:40. | |
turn. You can see that, there is a lynch mob out there. It has made as | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
they get that at its heart this is a story about a very evil man who | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
was allowed to get away with very evil things for a long time and | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
there were probably people complicit and active withing in | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
getting away with these evil things. I am sure the priority is for the | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
police to get these people. I have no fresh information, but the talk | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
has been about the police making arrests. If they are not simply | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
within the BBC or not within the BBC at all, at the focus will shift | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
back to a criminal, Serial, sexual predator and away from who knew | :30:21. | :30:28. | |
what about this or that television programme. 4 x Milliband, this is | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
his first chance to try and have a go at the Prime Minister for a | :30:34. | :30:43. | |
series of what he will label as mess up us. The Chief Whip has gone. | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
He said he was post and he is opposed. If I were Ed Miliband of | :30:49. | :30:59. | |
what I would be looking for is how do you avoid looking like a | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
Westminster game and try and relate it to people's lives? William Hague | :31:03. | :31:13. | |
was brilliant when he said, you minister said this. Liz is saying | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
yes to energy prices. You want opposition leaders to take things | :31:16. | :31:24. | |
that affect people's lives, energy prices, police numbers and say, | :31:24. | :31:31. | |
this is not just Westminster, it is about your life. If you can do that | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
as an opposition leader, John Smith did it brilliantly once took John | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
Major at Prime Minister's Questions, you will make progress. There is a | :31:40. | :31:50. | |
:31:50. | :31:54. | ||
guest of honour, it is Nick's This morning I had meetings and in | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
addition to my duties in this House I will have meetings later today. | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
Could I ask my right honourable friend whether he will ensure that | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
the full panoply of Government powers is used to investigate the | :32:12. | :32:20. | |
predatory activities of the late Mr Jimmy Savile? I think my honourable | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
friend makes a very important point. The allegations and what seems to | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
have happened are completely appalling and are shocking the | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
entire country. These do leave many institutions, perhaps the BBC, with | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
serious questions to answer. think above all the question how | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
did he get away with this for how long? The most important thing is | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
the police investigation is properly resourced and is allowed | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
to continue. I don't rule out further steps, but we do now have | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
independent investigations by the BBC, independent investigations | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
into the NHS and today I can confirm that the DPP has confirmed | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
that his principal legal adviser will review the papers from the | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
time when a case was put to the CPS for prosecution and the DPP | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
specifically is going to consider what more can be done to alert | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
relevant authorities where there are concerns that a prosecution is | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
not taken forward. The Government will do everything it can do. Other | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
institutions must do what they can do to make sure we learn the | :33:18. | :33:27. | |
lessons of this so it can never happen again. Mr Speaker, last week, | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
the Prime Minister told this House and I quote, "We will be | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
legislating so that energy companies have to give the lowest | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
tariff to their customers." Can he explain, including to the Energy | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
Secretary, how he's going to guarantee everybody in the country | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
the lowest tariff? As I said last week, we are going to use the | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
energy bill to ensure that customers get the lowest tariffs. | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
That's what we want to do. I have to say to the honourable gentleman, | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
there is a real problem here and it is worth looking at. There are - | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
last year, there were only 400 tariffs. This is completely | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
baffling for customers and while encouraging people to switch can | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
help make a difference, we need to go further and we need to use the | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
law, because I'm in no doubt we are on the side of people who work hard | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
and want to pay their bills and want a better deal. Mr Speaker, the | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
only people who are baffled last week were all of the ministers who | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
didn't know anything about the announcement. Last week, it was a | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
guarantee, a gilt-edged guarantee from the Prime Minister and now | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
he's read the small print and it's unravelled. Another dodgy offer | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
from this Prime Minister. Why can't he just for once at mitt the truth | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
- he doesn't do the detail, he made up the policy and he got caught | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
out? We are going to use the energy bill to ensure people get the | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
lowest tariff. The Deputy Prime Minister said exactly the same. He | :34:55. | :35:01. | |
wants to look at the detail. Let me ask him about this detail - yes, we | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
have his entire energy policy laid out for us today. Maybe he can tell | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
us now he says he wants to scrap Ofgem. In Government, he kept it. | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
Now he says he wants to pool energy supplies, in Government they | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
scrapped pooling energy supplies. Now he says he wants to refer the | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
big six to the Competition Commission, then he said he | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
wouldn't do it. I'm all in favour of switching, but this is | :35:28. | :35:37. | |
ridiculous. Let's talk about my record as Energy Secretary, because | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
I want to thank him for the Conservative Party briefing | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
document issued last Thursday. After the chaos of the House. It | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
revealed something very interesting, Mr Speaker. While I was the Energy | :35:50. | :35:59. | |
Secretary the average dual fuel bill fell by an average of �110. | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
Under him, it has risen by �200. I'll compare my record to his any | :36:05. | :36:15. | |
:36:15. | :36:17. | ||
day. Now, let's go on... The part- time Chancellor is giving advice | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
again! I'm actually coming on to one of his favourite subjects, the | :36:23. | :36:31. | |
West Coast Main Line. The former railway secretary and now the | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
Northern Ireland Secertary told us in August about the franchise | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
process., "We have tested it very robustly." The former Secretary of | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
State, now the Secretary of State for International Development, she | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
doesn't really want the job, but she's there, she said, "The process | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
is incredibly robust." Yet we learn today that concerns were raised by | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
the bidders as long ago as May 2011. Can the Prime Minister tell us | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
whether any minister knew about the bidders' concerns? First of all, he | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
said he wants to talk about his record as Energy Secretary. I think | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
we should spend a little bit of time on that. The fact is, under | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
Labour, gas bills doubled and electricity bills were up more than | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
50%. When he was Energy Secretary, had he became Energy Secretary, the | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
companies were making �25 loss per bill, and when he left Government | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
they were making �55 profit per bill. He didn't stand up to the | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
vested interest, he stuffed their pockets with cash. Right,, we've | :37:38. | :37:48. | |
:37:48. | :37:49. | ||
dealt with that. By the way, sorry, while we are on his energy record, | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
he put in place in his low-carbon transition plan, a policy that | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
would have added �179 to every sippingle person's bill in the | :38:00. | :38:09. | |
:38:10. | :38:13. | ||
country. Perhaps when he gets up he can apologise for that. Perhaps | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
members on both sides could calm down. Over to the Leader of the | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
Opposition, Mr Ed Miliband. Even he's taking his habit of not | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
answering questions to a new level. I asked him a question - if he | :38:25. | :38:35. | |
:38:35. | :38:35. | ||
wants to swap places, I'm very happy to do so. I asked him a | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
question about the railway. The Chancellor shouts from a sedentary | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
position. It's not the ticket that needs upgrading, but the Chancellor, | :38:42. | :38:52. | |
:38:52. | :38:52. | ||
many my view. -- many my view! The mismannedling of this process -- | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
the Miss Handling of this process has cost taxpayers up to �100 | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
million. Which of his former transport ministers, who oversaw | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
the bidding, is responsible for this multi-million-pound fiasco? | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
There is a proper independent investigation into what happened | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
with the West Coast Main Line. The Secretary of State for Transport | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
has made a full statement to this House and has explained what will | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
be done, so the commuters receive a good service. We get to the bottom | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
of what went wrong too. What is interesting and what the country | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
will notice, is he wants to talk about the Chancellor, because he | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
can't talk about the economy, because he's got no plans to | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
increase the private sector. He can't talk about the deficit, | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
because he's got no plans to cut it. He can't talk about welfare, | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
because he he opposes the cap. He can't talk about all the issues | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
that matter to this country and that's why he stands up and tells a | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
whole lot of rubbish jokes. I think we can take it from that answer, | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
that nobody is taking responsibility for what happened on | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
the railways. Ministers didn't know the detail. They didn't do the work. | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
They got caught out. Mr Speaker, who can blame them? They are just | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
playing follow my leader, after all. And this is what he said before he | :40:08. | :40:16. | |
became Prime Minister and I quote, "We must provide the modern | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
Conservative alternative - clear, come tent, inspiring." Mr Speaker, | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
where did it all go wrong? I tell you what has happened under this | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
Government in the last week, inflation down. Unemployment down. | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
Crime down. Waiting lists down. Borrowing down. That's what happens | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
but he can't talk about the real issues, because he's not up to the | :40:42. | :40:52. | |
job. It's good to see the crim zon tide back. -- crimson tide back. | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
He's living in a parallel universe. It's been another disastrous week | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
for his Government. Last week, he defended the Chief Whip. Now he's | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
gone. He made up an energy policy, that's gone too. He's lost millions | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
of pounds on the railways. Isn't the truth, there's nobody else left | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
to blame for the shambles of his Government? It goes right to the | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
top. It's only a bad week if you think it's bad that unemployment is | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
down. We think it's good. It's only bad if you regret inflation's | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
coming down. We think it's good for our country. It's only a bad week | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
if you don't think it's a good thing that one million more people | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
are in work. That's what's happening in the country. Every bit | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
of good news sends that team into a complete decline, but I can tell | :41:39. | :41:48. | |
him, the good news will keep coming. Would my right honourable friend | :41:48. | :41:58. | |
:41:58. | :41:59. | ||
join me in congratulating the West Midlands Police on their | :41:59. | :42:06. | |
performance with robbery down 31% and house burglaries down 29% in my | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
area? Doesn't this show that reform is working? I think he makes an | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
important point. We have seen just recorded crime fall by 6%, but also | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
the crime survey showed it falling by 6% and this is at a time when we | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
are making difficult decisions about police funding, but the | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
combination of police reform, the changes and tougher approaches to | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
criminal justice is seeing crime falling and public satisfaction | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
with the police going up. Last year, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
the house at the Despatch Box there was no reason why front-line police | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
officer numbers needed to go down. Yet, in my constituency in Harrow, | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
there are fewer police on our streets. Isn't the real truth, | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
Prime Minister, that there are 6,800 fewer police officers since | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
he came to power? What is actually happening is the number of | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
neighbourhood police officers is actually going up by 2,360 since | :43:03. | :43:12. | |
2010. Mr Speaker, last week planning permission was granted for | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
a large retail leisure park on derelict land between my | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
constituency and the Corby constituency. It will create 2,000 | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
new jobs, have a large Marks & Spencer and a stunning nature | :43:26. | :43:35. | |
reserve. Labour are opposed to that development. Could the Prime | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
Minister tell the House who the people of Corby should support? | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
Christine emet and the Conservatives campaigning for 2,000 | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
new jobs or Labour's Corby Luddites? My honourable friend | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
makes an excellent point about how it is this party and Government who | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
are getting behind economic development and as I just said, | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
every piece of good news is a disaster for the party opposite. | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
They wake up every morning, wanting more unemployment, but unemployment | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
is coming down. They want inflation to rise, but it's coming down. As | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
we can see in Corby, it's the Conservatives getting behind growth | :44:13. | :44:20. | |
and jobs and the future. During the last election, the Prime Minister | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
made many pledges to the people. One of those was to help rebalance | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
the Northern Ireland economy. Given that our economy lags behind the UK | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
average and indeed lags behind the position in Scotland in terms of | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
key, economic indicators, when can we expect an announcement by the | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
Prime Minister on the steps that he's going to take to help | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
rebalance the economy? I do want to see the Northern Ireland economy | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
rebalanced. It badly needs to, because of the size of the state | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
sector and it counts for so much of Northern Ireland GDP. We are | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
continuing to pursue the policy of looking at a lower corporation tax | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
rate for Northern Ireland, because of the land border with the | :45:00. | :45:07. | |
Republican. -- with the Republic. We need to look at boosting | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
manufacturing and small businesses and do all the things we can to | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
encourage inward investment into Northern Ireland, which I've been | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
doing, including on the trips I've been making to other parts of the | :45:18. | :45:28. | |
:45:28. | :45:34. | ||
$:/STARTFEED. Will he as First Lord of the Treasury ensure that the | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
Treasury stands four-square behind the Ministry of Justice to deliver | :45:40. | :45:47. | |
these first generation of payment by results programmes which are the | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
cash consequences of success for the next spending review period? | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
should be bringing payment by results to all of the criminal- | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
justice system. We spend over �1 billion on probation and I want to | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
say payment by results being the norm rather than the exception. | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
When the Treasury designed payment by results in the welfare system | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
they allowed the Department of Wight and pensions to spend the | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
future receipts of lower benefit claims. They will be equally | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
inventive and creative when it comes to as getting better results | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
in our criminal justice system. Last week from the dispatch box the | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
Prime Minister said services at Kettering hospital were safe. This | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
week we have learnt that the official review's best option is to | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
get rid of many vital services in that hospital and to reduce the | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
number of beds by 80%. Isn't the truth you cannot trust the Tories | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
on the NHS? You can always guarantee Labour Members of | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
Parliament will get up in Parliament and scaremonger about | :46:58. | :47:06. | |
our NHS. What I said last week is right. Mr Speaker, with 170,000 | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
fewer people on benefits and 1 million new jobs created, should it | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
not be clear that this Government's plan is working? The honourable | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
lady makes an important point. There are more people in work than | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
at any time in our history, more women in work, and this is the | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
election the number of full-time jobs has increased faster than the | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
number of part-time jobs. There is no complacency on these benches, | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
but we have to continue to get people into work, and cracking down | :47:41. | :47:48. | |
on youth unemployment. Could the Prime Minister explain the | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
relationship between Virgin care donations to the Tory party and the | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
number of Virgin care shareholders on commissioning group boards and | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
the number of contracts awarded to Virgin care? All donations to | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
political parties are properly disclosed and properly announced. | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
The difference between the nations the Conservative Party gets from | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
individuals and businesses and that trade unions giving to the label | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
party is that they effectively by votes. That is the scandal in | :48:27. | :48:35. | |
funding parties. Mr Speaker, under the previous Labour Government the | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
NHS lost hundreds of millions of pounds because foreign patients and | :48:39. | :48:45. | |
the cost of treating them was not properly recovered. Can I get an | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
assurance that both the Department of Health and the Home Office will | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
now work together to resolve this issue? I can get my honourable | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
friend that assurance. This area has become much too complicated | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
about who should pay how much and when. I have asked ministers to get | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
together to simplify the process and I hope we can come up with a | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
simplified system in which the public will have real trust. Jimmy | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
Carr avoided �3.3 million of tax last year and the Prime Minister | :49:18. | :49:26. | |
said that was morally wrong. Apple, Google, Facebook comic eBay and | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
Starbucks have between them avoided at nearly �900 million. Will the | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
Prime Minister now take this opportunity to condemn their | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
behaviour as morally wrong? I think the honourable lady makes an | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
important point and this is an international problem that all | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
countries are struggling with, about how to make sure companies | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
pay tax. I am not happy with the current situation, the HMRC needs | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
to look at it carefully. We need to make sure we are encouraging these | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
businesses to invest in this country, but they have to pay fair | :50:03. | :50:13. | |
:50:13. | :50:14. | ||
taxes as well. May I ask my right honourable friend why, as he told | :50:14. | :50:21. | |
be on Monday, he thinks that the single currency needs a banking | :50:21. | :50:29. | |
union? Because the crisis in the euro has not been caused by the | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
absence of a banking union, but by the absence of a single, fiscal | :50:35. | :50:43. | |
policy. Yet if the fiscal union were introduced, which would | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
certainly be dominated by Germany, that would lead to the death of | :50:48. | :50:56. | |
democracy throughout most of Europe. So, it is the least painful | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
solution the abolition of the euro and the return to national | :51:00. | :51:07. | |
currencies? What I would say to my right honourable friend is that I | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
believe the insecurity in the euro- zone is caused impart by both those | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
issues that he raises, the lack of a fiscal union, but also the lack | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
of a banking union. One of the problems in the euro-zone is the | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
different level of interest rates and part of that is because of | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
concerns about the link between weak banks and sovereign | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
governments. It is only when you have a banking union that you have | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
greater security about those weak banks. We have a single currency in | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
the UK and we also have a banking union. We would not treat banks | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
differently because they were in Wales or Scotland or Northern | :51:48. | :51:54. | |
Ireland. A working currency will need a working the banking union | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
and that is consistent and sensible. Last week we had a Government chief | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
Whip who was educated at Rugby public school and this week we have | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
got one that has been educated at Eton. I wonder if the Prime | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
Minister can give us an update on his campaign to spread privilege. | :52:13. | :52:20. | |
People across this House would recognise that my right honourable | :52:20. | :52:30. | |
:52:30. | :52:33. | ||
friend and his record stands for itself. Order. The House must calm | :52:33. | :52:42. | |
down. Let's hear from Mr Rob Wilson. After the appearance of the | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
Director General before the Select Committee yesterday, I hope the | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
House will agree it is essential the independent inquiries get to | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
the truth. Full details of those inquiries are quite sketchy, | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
despite letters I have sent to the BBC. Will the Prime Minister join | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
me in calling for full details to be published today so that both | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
enquiries can have the full confidence of the public and Jimmy | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
Savile's of victims can hear the truth? Can I commend my honourable | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
friend for the good and valuable and dedicated work he has done on | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
this issue of making sure all of these institutions get to the truth. | :53:21. | :53:27. | |
To be fair to the BBC, the two inquiries they set up qualify as | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
independent inquiries. The enquiry into the Newsnight programme is | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
being carried out by the former head of Sky News and the second, | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
more important review, into the cultural practices of the BBC, is | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
being led by a four appeal court judge. It is very important the BBC | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
makes clear these inquiries can go where the evidence leads, they will | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
have access to all the paperwork and they will be truly independent | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
and get to the truth on behalf of all the victims of Jimmy Savile. | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
The Prime Minister refused to answer a question at last week. | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
Will he now tell us why he will not publish the e-mails and | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
correspondence between himself, Rebekah Brooks, News International | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
and Andy Coulson so we can judge for ourselves? What is he | :54:15. | :54:22. | |
frightened of? Sang -- scandal or embarrassment? It was this | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
Government that set up the Leveson Inquiry and has co-operated and | :54:26. | :54:35. | |
given them all the information they have asked for it. In March, one of | :54:35. | :54:42. | |
my constituents was informs her fiance, Private Daniel Wade, had | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
died in Afghanistan. Three months later she gave birth to his baby. | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
Mr Speaker, the Army will not accept maternity without evidence, | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
nor will they release the DNA without a court order. As a | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
consequence the baby receives nothing. What the Prime Minister | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
helped to expedite this case? Would he require the Army routinely holes | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
DNA as in other countries, such as the US? On the latter part I will | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
look at that. I was as shocked as he was when I found out about this | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
case. I will do everything I can to expedite a conclusion to it. The | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
sincere condolences go to private Wade's family. This is a dreadful | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
situation and cannot continue. The Ministry of Defence are aware of it | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
and it raises complicated, legal issues, but the reactions from | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
members of the House that shows we have to move quickly to get this | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
sort it will stop does the Prime Minister recall telling the House | :55:46. | :55:55. | |
that the UK would lead the world in eradicating modern-day slavery. | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
Could he explain why we could not top out my bill to eradicate | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
slavery in British companies? We have to move his campaign forward. | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
This Government has an excellent record in combating modern-day | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
slavery and we continue to commit fill our international aid | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
programme to tackle where it exists in some of those countries. | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
number of major employers in my constituency are calling for | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
greater certainty from investors in one of the fastest growing sectors | :56:27. | :56:37. | |
in the economy, low carbon energy. Will he ask for a power target for | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
the power sector? We have already taken the most important step, | :56:41. | :56:48. | |
which is to set the renewable Certificate out into the Peter, so | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
investors know they can invest in offshore at Windsor, knowing what | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
the return will be. There will be more details in the energy bill. | :56:58. | :57:06. | |
Can I refer the Prime Minister to Hansard, 23rd May, 2012, when the | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
honourable member for Belfast North asked, where he gave an undertaking | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
he will not succumb to the dictat by the European Court of Human | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
Rights in relation to prisoners voting? Can he tell us how he is | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
going to get round breaking European there? I gave the | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
honourable gentleman that assurance will stop the House of Commons has | :57:31. | :57:36. | |
voted against prisoners having the vote, I do not want them to get the | :57:36. | :57:43. | |
vote, I am clear about that. If it helps by having another vote in | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
Parliament to put the legal position beyond doubt, I am happy | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
to do that. But prisoners are not getting the vote under this | :57:51. | :57:59. | |
Government. Is the Prime Minister aware that last year there was a | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
Borough Council run referendum in my constituency about locating and | :58:03. | :58:10. | |
energy and waste incinerator on the edge of King's Lynn? On a 61% | :58:10. | :58:20. | |
:58:20. | :58:20. | ||
turnout 65,516 of mind and my honourable member's constituents | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
voted No. Does he agree that it is essential for local democracy and | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
localism that my constituents and these people are listen to? It is | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
important the planning system listens to local people and proper | :58:35. | :58:44. | |
:58:45. | :58:46. | ||
processes are followed and I am evidence file used to convict a | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
paedophile if it still exists contains clear intelligence of a | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
widespread paedophile ring. One of its members boasts of its links to | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
a senior aide of a former Prime Minister who said he could smuggle | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
in indecent images of children from abroad. The Leeds were not followed | :59:03. | :59:08. | |
up, but if the files still exists I want to ensure that the | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
Metropolitan Police Sicher the evidence, re- examine it and | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful Peder farm | :59:16. | :59:21. | |
network linked to Parliament and Number 10. The honourable gentleman | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
raises a very difficult and complex case. I am not entirely sure which | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
a former Prime Minister he is referring tipple stop I would like | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
to look very carefully to Hansard and the allegations he has made and | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
see what the Government can do to help give him the assurances he | :59:37. | :59:47. | |
:59:47. | :59:48. | ||
seeks. Jacob Rees-Mogg. principle, does my right honourable | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
friend think that statutory regulation could ever be compatible | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
with a free press? My honourable friend is temptingly into | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
commenting on what Lord Leveson might or might not recommend. I | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
think it is important, having set up the inquiry on an all-party | :00:06. | :00:12. | |
basis, we should allow him to produce his report. I think one can | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
obsessed him much about how exactly these things are done. What matters | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
is are we going to have a regulatory system in which the | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
public will have confidence? If there are mistakes made, there are | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
proper corrections. Newspapers can get fine, there is proper | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
investigation. That seems to be the most important issue for all of us | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
to address and we are going to put in place a system in which we can | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
have confidence the public will support it and we can have an | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
independent and very vigorous press. Is the Prime Minister aware that | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
young people's unemployment in my constituency has gone up by 1,000%? | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
What is he going to do about this scandal? We are putting in place | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
through the wet programme and the Youth Contract the biggest scheme | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
to help people get back into work. We have seen success in recent | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
weeks and months. The recent figures saw a decline in the | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
claimant count and a decline in unemployment and a decline in youth | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
unemployment. There is more to do, but we are heading in the right | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
direction. Will the Prime Minister promised a day that unlike other | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
leaders in other parliaments in the UK he will never spend �100,000 | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
fighting the release of legal advice that he does not hold and | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
never asked for? He asks a baffling question about a truly baffling | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
situation, which is that we were told by the first minister in | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
Scotland that he had legal advice about Scotland's plays in the | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
European Union in the event of independence. They did not have any | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
legal advice at all. When you shine a spotlight on the case for | :02:00. | :02:07. | |
separation the SNP put, it completely falls apart. The Prime | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
Minister has rightly expressed concern about child abuse in our | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
institutions. Last year, at the Government reduced child protection | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
measures in schools and changes to Ofsted mean that some schools will | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
never be inspected on their child protection procedures. Will the | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
Prime Minister now meet me and cross-party MPs from the all-party | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
Child Protection Group to protect our children now and in the future? | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
I am very happy to arrange a meeting between her and the new | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
minister who has huge experience in this area. What we have tried to do | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
is take a set of rules and regulations that involved nine, 10 | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
million more parents in this sort of thing and try to simplify it and | :02:59. | :03:09. | |
:03:09. | :03:20. | ||
concentrate on where it needed to $:/STARTFEED. There was talk about | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
the low-energy price statement from the Prime Minister. It unravelled | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
within hours of him making it and Ed Miliband had to have a pop at | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
the West Coast Main Line, since that was pretty low-hanging fruit | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
as well. He quoted the Prime Minister saying that the | :03:37. | :03:45. | |
Conservatives were clear, competent and inspired. Then the about where | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
did it all go wrong. There are other issues, including the Prime | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
Minister giving very strong steer that he will not be come plying | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
with the demand of the Strasbourg court to introduce votes for | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
prisoners, though there was a story in the guard guard this morning | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
saying they were prepared to do that, but he was pretty gat gorical. | :04:09. | :04:16. | |
Ewas. -- categorical. He was, indeed. The viewers didn't pick up | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
on that, but the performance. We have this, "I think Miliband had | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
David Cameron on the ropes an Ed Miliband looks like a man | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
rejuvenated." Steve from Liverpool said, "This is getting to be a | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
weekly slaughter. David Cameron is in big trouble and now having real | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
problems answering an increasingly competent Miliband." But we have | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
this from Jacqueline, "The lines of questions are meaningless to me and | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
frankly his silly jokes at the Chancellor's expense." That will be | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
about the rail ticket. "This is a waste of time and silly point | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
scoring." David,." The one-liners are awful. He needs to ask serious | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
questions and stop trying to score petty points." There were many more | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
along that line. While you were doing that we discovered the Chief | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
Constable of West Yorkshire has resigned. That suggests that he's a | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
casualty of the aftermath of the ills borough affair. Nick, thoughts | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
on PMQs? I didn't think the central clashes got us very far. Ed | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
Miliband will feel he's establishing in the public mind | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
incompetence that affects ordinary voters and blaming David Cameron | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
personally for it. Come Ron wanted to establish in the public mind a | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
series of good bit of news. Most striking was the clearest possible | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
hint I've ever seen a Prime Minister give about an economic | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
piece of news he's seen that we haven't. Tomorrow, we get GDP | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
figures, growth figures, that come out for the third quarter and he | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
was saying the good news will keep on coming. That is saying to the | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
country, "That's what we'll see tomorrow." That would mean the end | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
of the double-dip recession and the beginning of a big argument about | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
whether it proves anything at all. Is it just an Olympic factor or a | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
bounce back after previously bad figures or the beginning of | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
recovery? There will be fire and fury tomorrow about that. Frankly, | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
I suspect the answer is we won't know until we get the next set of | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
figures. Do you share my view that he knocked down this story that the | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
Government was preparing to give prisoners votes to some? Well, yes | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
and no. In other words, there's an argument, I think, going on within | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
Government and there always has been, about how to respond to the | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
European Court. There is a few that the Attorney-General feels very | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
strongly about it and he repeated it today, that you cannot pick and | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
choose which of these rulings you implement, otherwise you are | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
inviting dictators around the world and regimes you don't approve of to | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
do the same. You have to be seen to be come plieling if you can. It | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
seems to me -- come plying if you can. It seems to me the Attorney- | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
General has lost a key ally. He has Nick Clegg, but lost Ken Clarke. He | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
has Chris Grayling, who is not going to be the man to will argue | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
for that. There could be an argument, but I don't know this, | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
but I believe there will be an argument going on that he hinted at, | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
should the Government be seen to try to comply to say, "OK, this is | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
what we have to do. We put it to Parliament." Then they say to the | :07:36. | :07:43. | |
court, "We did our job. Sadly democracy had its day." Or do you | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
take the view that it's -- there's no point bothering. The Prime | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
Minister said if it would be necessary to have another vote he's | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
prepared to do it. What he's trying to do is to say to the court we're | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
trying and to Parliament don't worry about that. I think it's spot | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
on. That is what is happening. Attorney-General has lost out? | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
Prime Minister signalled to the backbenchers to vote against it. He | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
said it was sick to his stomach and he's done the same thing and | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
signalled to the House that he's not in favour of it, that the House | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
is entirely able to vote against it, but also suggested there may be | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
some vehicle for that. I think it's possible there will be a vote or a | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
bill and you are in rather extraordinary position it's as | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
though they are going through the motions of compliance. I think | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
there are longer-term questions about the competence of the court, | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
and other issues will come into the frame too, about why we now have a | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Supreme Court that is not supreme and whether in the end the House of | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
Commons takes the decisions and while this issue might be did you | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
fupbt, the long-term issues will have to be -- difupbt, the long- | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
term issues will have to be ironed out. But if he said we are not | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
going to do this, then we end up in a clash between the European Court | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
of Human Rights and the British Government? Well, I was in the | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
chamber at Strasbourg at the Council of Europe and we have | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
completed for the first time in 26 years, our presidency of the | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
Council of Europe. It was handled very well indeed, by the British, | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
diplomatically and politically. Cameron as Prime Minister came and | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
addressed the Council of Europe. He was absolutely superb. And he's | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
polls apart from me on the issues, but on that afternoon he was | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
excellent in handling that assembly and he makes the House of Commons | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
look close knit in the spectrum of politics. He was diplomacy itself | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
and on his game. There was no hint of wanting a clash whatsoever. This | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
isn't the first time, as we know with Tony Blair and John Major, the | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
British Prime Ministers give one tone of voice when they're on these | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
shores and a rather different tone when they cross the Channel. I | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
don't think myself that David Cameron wants the clash, actually. | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
I don't think the Council of Europe, or the European Court, wants the | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
clash either. I'm still optimistic a way will be found through. I | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
don't know what shape or form it will take, but I don't think it | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
will come to dying in the last ditch. What about you? I think | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
people want to know what the Government's plans are. We are | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
hearing hints and rumours. They don't know themselves. They are in | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
the final stages. Then something else happens. As I said, I would | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
really like to see what the legal advice is that the Government's had. | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
The legal advice and I was talking to the Attorney-General about this, | :10:45. | :10:54. | |
he hasn't published this, but we'll come on to this, but the legal | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
advice from the Attorney-General is quite clear - we need to comply. | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
That is the legal advice. We don't have to give all prisoners the vote, | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
that seems to be the ruling. We are not the only ones in the frame. It | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
ly is involved -- Italy is involved too. We are not the only ones in | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
the frame. But why The Guardian story this morning - cleared nudged | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
by the Attorney-General, I would suspect or his department, and they | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
would say, "If we give votes to some prisoners, we'll be fine." | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
That was always the European Court's argument, that there was an | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
arbitrary ban on all prisoners not having the vote. And that if | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
Parliament wanted to draw up a new way of determining that this or | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
that category of prisoners didn't have the vote, that might pass the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
test that the court set, but it was arbitrary to say automatically, | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
everyone without a judge considering, regardless of the | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
circumstances. Now, remember, for viewers who think why do we care, | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
the reason is that the courts may end up paying out to prisoners who | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
bring court cases, who don't get the vote. The Government may be | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
obliged to pay them. Therefore, the argument - There's an issue about | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
paying compensation. You wouldn't necessarily have to do that. There | :12:11. | :12:18. | |
is conflicting advice on that too. Enjoy being part of the Government? | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
-- enjoy being out of the Government? Yes. Are you sure? | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
Why? That's probably a longer conversation, but freedom to say | :12:29. | :12:36. | |
more on the things you believe in and the things you want to do. | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
Watson asked this rather bizarre question, out of the ordinary in a | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
way, about a paedophile ring close to Downing Street in the years gone | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
by. We are not exactly sure what he's talking about there. We have | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
our suspicions it may involve some people who were aides to previous | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
Prime Ministers, but until we get a clear eidea, it's probably better | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
not to go in that direction. seems to me what he's trying to do | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
and remember he was the person who was very heavily involved in the | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
News International case, he has got a seam that he's mining of talking | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
about scandals of this sort. What he was doing is helping the | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
newspapers to extend their enquiries beyond the BBC and beyond | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
the NHS, to arguing there was a ring in some sense in public life. | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
The interesting thing will be whether newspapers now start to | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
name names, start to ask questions about exactly who was involved, but | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
that was clearly his name. There is no other reason for standing up and | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
saying that in the House, other than the Prime Minister is giving a | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
green light to MPs and Tom Watson is saying, "Start writing this." | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
It's significant how carefully and seriously phrased was the Prime | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
Minister's response, which makes you suspect immediately if you're a | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
journalist with a snout, there must be some smoking gun here. There | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
have been some stories in the press and recently too, and in the | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
Murdoch press I'm seeing here at the weekend, about a former aide to | :14:09. | :14:16. | |
a former Prime Minister apparently involved with underage boys. Until | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
- these are sensitive matters and until we do some proper journalism | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
we should hold back and find out what is being talked about. We | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
learned the Prime Minister has to fight votes for prisoners and the | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
GDP figures will be good tomorrow and there will be all hell breaking | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
loose over Tom Watson's questions. There might be a signal for a | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
future week. Tax avoidance. He was asked about Starbucks and he didn't | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
promise any crackdown. He is probably thinking like former | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
Chancellors, but there was a significant to Margaret Hodge | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
saying, "I don't approve." It may be stating the obvious. My sources | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
tell me there will be something in the autumn statement, which will be | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
live on BBC Two from this very studio on 5th December from 11.30pm. | :15:08. | :15:18. | |
:15:18. | :15:18. | ||
Well done. You'll with be us. All day. These days the Suffragette | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
campaign might seem like something that's confined to the history | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
books - the grainy footage of women marching through the streets of the | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
capital are from a different age. 106 years ago a mass lobby of women | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
marched on Parliament, led by the Suffragette leader, Emmeline | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
Pankhurst. Well, today another Pankhurst is marching through | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
Westminster - her great-grand- daughter no less, Helen Pankhurst. | :15:35. | :15:43. | |
She's on the Green with Conservative MP, Caroline Noakes. | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
Welcome to both of you. Starting with you Helen, why do you feel the | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
need to march today in the name of women's rights? Because there is | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
still so much to do. If you look at the issue of political | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
participation and the representation of women, the whole | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
issue that my family was so involved in, we only have about a | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
quarter of women MPs. 100 years later that really is not good | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
enough. It needs to change, because without women MPs in equal | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
proportion and the whom system of Parliament changing to enable women, | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
then the policies that are enacted are not gendered, so we are | :16:23. | :16:33. | |
:16:33. | :16:39. | ||
perpetuating an you equal and unfem $:/STARTFEED. What sort of things | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
would you like to see? If austerity measures were looked at to see | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
whether or not a whole set of factors were super imposing upon | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
each other to make women's position even worse, so we look at issues | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
such as childcare provision and the cuts to that, issues such as women | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
being more predominant in the public sector, etc, the austerity | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
measures are disproportionately affecting women and that needs to | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
be looked at. We have got Caroline Noakes are there. What is the | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
Government doing to mitigate those? The austerity measures are | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
important. We want to see more women in work and employment | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
statistics are showing that figure is up. But also things like | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
business mentors, encouraging women to start their own businesses. I | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
was pleased with the modifications of the Chancellor made to the child | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
benefit policy because I was worried particularly for a single | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
income households, the changes in their original form could have had | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
a significant impact on my knees. There is a march going on today in | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
the name of a women's rights because they feel there are not | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
policies answering their concerns, the Government is failing in their | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
eyes. The Government is not failing, it is working in difficult times to | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
make sure we have a good range of policies that are supporting | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
families, by making sure mortgage rates stay exceptionally low and by | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
making sure there are more or employ Matt Tebbutt Trinity's in | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
the employment sector. But at their height I endorse the regions behind | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
the march and I want to see more women in Parliament making sure we | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
see a range of issues. In his end up being done? It is a cross-party | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
issue. We have to have women in Parliament working across the | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
divides to ensure things are going to change. If all the MPs do not | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
speak of their particular policies, we will not address the fundamental | :18:49. | :18:57. | |
reality that we are not addressing the population's issues as a whole. | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
What would you like to see Caroline Noakes doing it to mark a young | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
women in Parliament. The very fact she did not respond negatively to | :19:06. | :19:13. | |
the march and the lobby is good. I think the fact we have a resurgence | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
of women's rights activism, a number of people on their own | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
coming to lobby in Parliament, this is not large organisations lobbying | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
on behalf of the organisations, these are individual constituency | :19:27. | :19:35. | |
members saying I would like to talk to my MP about issues such as the | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
cuts against women, 230 women are being turned away by a refuge on an | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
average day. We need to see more women represented in parliament and | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
all the women MPs know that and we need to see the male MPs and we | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
need to see leadership to get change now, not in another 100 | :19:54. | :20:02. | |
years' time. Nick Herbert, there has been a landmark ruling today | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
against Birmingham City Council which has lost its appeal against | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
claims from a female staff who were denied a bonus when most of the | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
male staff in traditionally male jobs were given theirs. What do you | :20:14. | :20:21. | |
say to that request Denmark why is that happening in this day and age? | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
You can always say there would be an impact on employers in a | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
difficult time for implementing some kind of equality. But why is | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
it acceptable in today's society that women doing the same work as | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
rent received low pay? They do get lower pay. It is unacceptable and | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
we have to start from that position. On the broader issue of | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
representation of women is the question of whether there is a need | :20:51. | :21:01. | |
:21:01. | :21:01. | ||
for a law or a lead. We need both. Assessments are being done to make | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
sure that the changes are not disproportionately damaging. We | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
have to make certain women are given that proper opportunity, | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
which they still are not. Be is that enough? Not at all. The reason | :21:16. | :21:24. | |
we have got far more women MPs is because Labour took all-women short | :21:24. | :21:31. | |
lists. We had to do that to make the progress. I think the | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
Government is totally out of touch with what is happening to women | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
across the board. Cuts to child care comet women's unemployment. | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
The biggest growth has been unemployment four or older women, | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
women in their fifties. We have seen huge cuts to the care service | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
so that women who are helping with grandchildren and looking after | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
relatively Ella tears -- relatives, the Government does not get it. | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
thought you were ready to jump in a frankly with an answer irrespective | :22:04. | :22:12. | |
of what I said. Just urging people does not work. We have record | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
numbers of women in employment in this country. That is good news to | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
tell. Of course there have to be cuts in public spending. A women's | :22:23. | :22:33. | |
unemployment is a high is for 25 years. There is a relative measure | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
of protection for child provision. You are back to the same opposition | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
which is just always opposing. do not understand what is happening. | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
Charles, you can have the final word. As the rows between two | :22:49. | :22:57. | |
thorns. The Government said, we are fully hoping for equality, but | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
local devolved pay is a different matter. I think that is an | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
important constitutional principle. I think they are correct on that. I | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
think the key thing is I spent a long time over this in the party | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
and we had Cherie Booth advising us about quotas and all the rest of it, | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
and very good she was as well, when I was in the Lib Dems. I am not | :23:23. | :23:30. | |
persuaded by quotas and legislation. The Davies report of last year has | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
been based on a voluntary principle and most women over 80% respondents | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
agreed with that approach. We have to go north of the border now. | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
It is not that far. What would you call an omni | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
shambles in Scotland? The SNP leader Alex Salmond did not have | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
the best of days yesterday. First, two of his backbenchers resigned | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
the Whip over his party's changing stance on NATO. Then he had to | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
admit his Government had not sought legal advice on an independent | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
Scotland status inside the European Union, despite telling me in March | :24:10. | :24:19. | |
they had. Have you sought advice from Your Own Scottish law? We have, | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
yes. What did they say? You can read that in the documents we put | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
forward. What did they say? cannot reveal the legal advice of | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
the officers, you know that. Everything we publish his | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
consistent with the legal advice that we have received. That was | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
Alex Salmond talking to me in the granite City of Aberdeen in March. | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
Here is Nicola Sturgeon in the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
yesterday. In light of the Edinburgh agreement, by which both | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
governments have agreed the process for Scotland to achieve | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
independence. The Government has now commissioned a specific legal | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
advice from our law officers on the position of Scotland within the | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
European Union if independence is achieved through this process will | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
stop the Scottish Government has previously cited opinions from a | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
number of eminent legal authorities, past and present, in support of its | :25:18. | :25:26. | |
few... Order, order. In support of its view that an independent | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
Scotland will continue in membership of the European Union, | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
but has not sought specifically that advice, however as the | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
Edinburgh agreement provides the exact content of the process of | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
abstaining independence, we now have the basis on which specific | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
legal advice can be sought. The it was the Deputy First Minister. I am | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
joined from Edinburgh by Jamie Hepburn. Have you been able to | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
establish why it when I asked Alex Salmond if he had sought advice | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
from his own Scottish law offices in this matter that he said years | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
when it turned out the answer was No? This is a gross | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
misinterpretation perhaps on your part, Andrew. I have got the | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
transcript in front of me and it is perfectly clear what the first | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
minister was referring to he was referring to the fact the Scottish | :26:23. | :26:31. | |
Government had published a number of documents that were of course | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
underpinned by legal advice. Every single document published by this | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
Scottish Government is underpinned by legal advice. Let's look at the | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
full context. This was in the context of an interview that asked | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
him what Scotland's status would be if it became an independent nation | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
in the European Union. Would it have to apply again for membership? | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
He said no. I then quoted some legal experts who said it would. He | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
quoted either experts who said it would not, but they were all in the | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
private sector. I asked him if he had had official advice from his | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
own law officers, and he said he had, but he could not tell me what | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
it was. What has changed? suggest the advise the first | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
minister had proffered was all based in the private sector pulls | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
up again he was referring to the secretary general of the European | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
Union, the director general of the European Union, I have got the | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
documents in front of me. They are not part of the Scottish Government. | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
I asked him if he had had advice from his own Scottish law makers. | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
Are they yes does not mean years and we are end Bill Clinton | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
territory, have you sought advice from your own Scottish law officers | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
in this matter? We have, yes. What did I not understand? The first | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
minister was quite clearly referring to existing documents. | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
That was quite clear. Excuse me, he said he could not tell me what the | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
advice was because this kind of advice was not published. Why would | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
he tell me he could not publish advice he did not have been the | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
first place? He said, I'm sorry I cannot tell you that advice. Alex | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
Salmond is not above the Ministerial Code and has to adhere | :28:33. | :28:40. | |
to that code. He is not only allowed to comment on advice given. | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
He did not have the advice. Some of the confusion has come from the | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
interactions made. I am going to interrupt you now. We are going to | :28:51. | :28:57. |