Browse content similar to 30/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
President Obama declares Hurricane Sandy a major disaster in what | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
could be America's costliest natural disaster, ever. We have got | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
a latest. With a backbench rebellion on the | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
cards over the EU's budget, David Cameron has another foe to contend | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
with. Yes, Tony Blair's back and he wants to be president - of Europe. | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
Would it be a good idea? Can small farmers survive higher | :01:13. | :01:23. | |
production costs? We'll talk to Lib Dem President, | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Tim Farron. And should MPs expect to be served | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
wine of hotel or private members' club standard? Or make do with | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
supermarket plonk? Wine critic, Jilly Goolden, and Labour MP, | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
Austin Mitchell, take the Daily Politics taste test. | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole programme today is | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
the broadcaster, publisher and former Conservative candidate, Iain | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
Dale. Now, America has been waking up to the damage caused overnight | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
by Hurricane Sandy, one of the biggest storms ever to hit the US. | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
At least 16 people are thought to have died and more than 16 million | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
people are without power across America and Canada, and President | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
Obama has declared a major disaster in New York where fires have broken | :01:59. | :02:07. | |
out and a power sub-station has exploded. They're calling Sandy a | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
'superstorm' and it's predicted it could cause up to $20 billion in | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
damage, making it one of the costliest natural disasters in US | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
history. Campaigning ahead of next week's presidential election has | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
been suspended and there have been reports this morning that the vote | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
could be delayed. Here's what President Barack Obama had to say | :02:24. | :02:33. | |
yesterday. I am not worried at this point | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
about the election, I am worried about the families and worried | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
about first responders, the impact on the economy, transportation. The | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
election will take care of itself next week. Right now, my No 1 | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
priority is to make sure we are saving lives, and search and rescue | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
teams will be in place and people will get the food, water and | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
shelter they need in case of emergency. We will respond as | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
quickly as possible to get the economy back on track. | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
Iain Dale, he says the election it will take care of itself, but will | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
it? He is concentrating on people who have been affected, and sadly | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
died. But its power is still down next week, can the voting go ahead? | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
I suspect there will be one or two buildings are they might have to | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
change, but I think this is an interesting opportunity for Barack | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
Obama. He has got everything to gain by having a strong response to | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
this crisis, in contrast to that of George Bush a few years ago. | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
could fall into that trap of George Bush? Mitt Romney cannot win on | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
this, he cannot do anything and be shown to be a man of action, Barack | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
Obama can. During the debates, Mitt Romney has come back into the game. | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
In the polls, there is little to put between them? There is only 10 | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Swing State that matter. Ohio is the main one. I don't think that | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
has been affected by the storms. The reaction from the people of | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
Ohio will be interesting and I think Barack Obama has been getting | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
stronger verb. It does not matter what the rest of the country thinks, | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
it is what these tend Swing State think. The moment they will be | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
focusing on the emergency and the response. | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
Now it's time for our Daily Quiz. The question for today is: The | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
authorities at Westminster want to raise �3 million from commercial | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
activities on the Parliamentary estate. So what new ideas are they | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
considering? Are they thinking of: Turning the speaker's residence | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
into a luxury boutique hotel? Hiring out Big Ben as a Hollywood | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
film set? Trebling the cost of food in the | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
canteens? Offering a romantic dinner for two | :04:51. | :05:01. | |
over the despatch box? David Cameron and Nick Clegg could | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
be serving up the food. At the end of the show, Iain will | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
give us the correct answer. Now yesterday, Tony Blair, said | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
something in Berlin which might either set your heart beating a | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
little faster or cast you into a deep depression, depending on your | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
view. So what's he suggesting? Tony Blair wants voters across Europe to | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
elect a new president of the EU in order to increase its democratic | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
legitimacy. In a speech in Berlin yesterday, Mr Blair warned that | :05:25. | :05:35. | |
:05:35. | :05:35. | ||
people across the EU will become alienated unless reforms are made. | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
He said; "A Europe-wide election for the presidency is the most | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
direct way to involve the public". Three years ago the EU created a | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
new position - president of the European Council, with Tony Blair's | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
name briefly in the frame for the new post. The job spec includes | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
chairing regular meetings of European Heads of State and helping | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
to set the general political direction and priorities of the EU. | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
But Tony Blair didn't get enough support and this man, the former | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
Belgian Prime Minister, Herman van Rompuy, got the plumb job instead. | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
Now Mr Blair says either that job or the post of President of the | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
European Commission, currently held by Spaniard, Jose Manuel Barroso, | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
should be directly elected by voters across the European Union. | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
That's led to plenty of speculation that Tony still fancies a big Euro | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
job. And we've been here before. Let's have a look at the then | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
Shadow Foreign Secretary, William Hague, in the House of Commons in | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
2008. He's imagining the response of the then Prime Minister, Gordon | :06:28. | :06:35. | |
Brown, to the appointment of President Blair. | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
We can all picture the scene after a European Council sometime next | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
year. Picture the face of our poor Prime Minister, as the name of Tony | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
Blair is placed in nomination after one Prime Minister after another. | :06:50. | :06:58. | |
The look of gloom on his face. The nauseating prose oozing from every | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
Government. The rapid revelation of a majority view agreed behind | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
closed doors when he was excluded. Never will he regret a more no | :07:09. | :07:18. | |
longer being in possession of a veto. The famous dropped jaw almost | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
hitting the table as he realises there is no option but to join in | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
and the awful moment when the motorcade of the President of | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
Europe sweeps into Downing Street. The gritted teeth and bitten nails, | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
the Prime Minister emerging from his door with a smile of | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
intolerable anguish. The choking sensation as the words, Mr | :07:40. | :07:49. | |
President of forced out of him. And then, once in the Cabinet Room, the | :07:49. | :07:58. | |
melodrama of when we you hand over to me, all over again. Hilarity in | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
the House of Commons. We're joined now by Jacob Rees-Mogg, | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
he's a Conservative MP who sits on the European Scrutiny Committee, | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
and by Roger Liddle, who speaks for Labour on Europe in the Lords and | :08:09. | :08:19. | |
:08:19. | :08:21. | ||
used to be Europe advisor to Tony Blair. Why is it a good idea? | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
Because we need a Democratic breakthrough in Europe. People | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
complain about the Commission being unaccountable and remote. They | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
complain of Brussels institutions are a long way away. We need some | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
way of making Europe accountable for what it does. Tony is right, | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
the way to do that is have a direct election for the President. Would | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
you support him for the role? not likely to happen before the | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
earliest, 2020. Could you imagine him doing it? I think he would beat | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
brilliant at it, yes. I don't think he Best it is the reason he is | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
proposing it. Because it is the right thing for Europe, given the | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
problem of accountability, given Europe needs to integrate more. | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Isn't that the problem? If there were presidential elections, if | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
there were rallies in all 27 countries, can you imagine it, | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
setting people's hearts aflutter and thinking you could believe in | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
it? What is the turnout in Parliamentary elections? I think | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
25%. It is because people do not see Europe as a country to which | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
they are loyal, to which they have feelings which make democracy work, | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
to which they have a patriotic urge. They do for elections in the United | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
Kingdom. It is crucially important. You would have a situation where | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
the votes of other Europeans would decide how the United Kingdom was | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
governed. It would give it an appearance of legitimacy, but it | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
wouldn't be legitimate for the British people. They would want to | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
govern themselves. It is a cover, rather than a reality. Until we | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
have a feeling across Europe, we are one people, which is much | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
further off than 2020, having a Democratic system, it won't have | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
any validity. What would you say to a person, even if you could | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
directly elect them, wouldn't give people the feeling they are in a | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
federal set-up? I do believe loyalties will remain for a long | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
time to the nation-state. I am not disputing that. But I do think this | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
proposal for an election of the President would and live in | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
European politics. It is part of a view of politics which is different | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
to the kind of what I would describe as, the old fashioned | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
Westminster model due, that Jacob has. What I want to see is more | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
democracy at all kinds of different levels. European level and local | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
level. I don't think Westminster is the only game in town. The | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
traditional members of Parliament who have spent all their time | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
trying to get there, thing Westminster is the only game in | :11:10. | :11:18. | |
town. Let's go to the French view this work -- perspective. We have a | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
French journalist now, would it excite people in France if there | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
was a sort of a new European President? What is interesting, it | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
we don't talk about it in France. But the topic comes back very | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
regularly in the UK where it seems to be a titillating question. We're | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
talking about more democracy in Europe. Of course, we are all a | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
were we need more democracy. But, if we are talking about an EU | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
President is because we need charisma. We already have a | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
President of the Commission. you saying the present one is not a | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
charismatic? I am very pro-European, but no, he does not have charisma. | :12:04. | :12:12. | |
It is interesting Tony Blair is coming up. If he could, he could | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
apply to the Bank of France, he is a candidate for everything. Do you | :12:16. | :12:23. | |
think he would get support in France? I think, what would an EU | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
President do? He would be a symbol, he would be an Honorary President. | :12:28. | :12:38. | |
What we need is a great historian, perhaps. I would love to have seen | :12:38. | :12:45. | |
the Polish historian doing the job, except he is dead. Perhaps in | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
Britain, George Steiner who is an extraordinary European, educated in | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
France, worked in the US and is a professor in Cambridge. I can think | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
of many great men and women. We need a symbol and charisma, rather | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
than another politician in Brussels. This is the idea to replace all | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
have one of the Rolls elected, who would you vote for, put forward if | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
the role came up? By don't want the role to exist and if it did, I | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
don't want the United Kingdom to be part of it. The hammer-and-sickle | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
has just come up on top of its new flag. And not sure I want much of | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
these European singlets -- symbols. Do you agree, saying it might make | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
Britain's more interested in Europe? It is a preposterous idea. | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
Tony Blair is putting the cart before the horse. There is not | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
political union. The job only has importance if there is political | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
union. Down the road, the eurozone might come together, it would be | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
logical to have fiscal union and and political union. We should have | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
no part of that. But if they want Tony Blair, they can have him. | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
they need to solve the problems now? Of course they need to solve | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
the problems. A lot of decisions are taken in Brussels, trade | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
relations with the rest of the world are done through the EU and | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
not through the member states. Competition policy, the single | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
market. Could I say, this is not just Tony Blair's idea. One of the | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
key supporters of this is the German Christian Democrat Union, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
Angela Merkel's party. The strongest and most important party | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
in the European Union. Conservatives here have said | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
Britain shouldn't be part of it even if there is a close | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
integration or a two track Europe. They should recreate the post of | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
Holy Roman Emperor and give it to the Queen and everybody would be | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
happy. If it did come about, you get a feeling it would be ex-prime | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
ministers and presidents who would end up applying. We could see | :14:59. | :15:08. | |
Sergio Berlusconi, Jacques Chirac. How much credibility? Police | :15:08. | :15:16. | |
commissioners as failed politicians are applying for the job. Give it | :15:16. | :15:24. | |
to Victor Hugo. It is interesting, we're talking about this in Britain | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
and only in Britain, because I think Britain has the policy about | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
Europe is totally in a mess. then is it being talked about here, | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
bearing in mind you would argue the centre of gravity has moved to a | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
Euro sceptic views. A lot of people would support that. Why is that | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
idea coming from here, even though you mentioned about the Christian | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
Democrat party in Germany, we don't hear a big surge of support for | :15:51. | :16:01. | |
:16:01. | :16:09. | ||
Tony Blair is 58. He clearly thinks he has another big job in him. If | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
there were a President of Europe, even though I do not support his | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
policies, he would be good at it. If you want somebody who is | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
charismatic, why not Tony Blair? Why not Boris Johnson? Key while | :16:23. | :16:32. | |
being cynical. These jobs exist. -- you are being cynical. They are | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
important jobs affecting daily lives. They affect the daily lives | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
of people in Britain. Who would have appointed Herman Van Rompuy | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
over Tony Blair? Could we get somebody a better quality? | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
could not get anybody who is worse. While it do we not just fire one | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
and save the money? There is a case for merging the jobs but they are | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
powerful jobs. The point of the debate is to make them | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
democratically accountable. You are staying with us and coming back at | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
the end of the show. Thanks. We have mentioned one money-spinning | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
scheme dreamt up by the Parliamentary authorities. This is | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
another. To save cash, officials to compile Hansard, the transcription | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
of everything said in a House of Commons and House of Lords, that | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
they will no longer give away hardback copies. It will save �1 | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
million a year. Some MPs are unhappy, including Jacob. This is | :17:42. | :17:52. | |
:17:52. | :17:52. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 50 seconds | :17:52. | :18:42. | |
Quentin Letts to explain. He we are in the Parliamentary | :18:42. | :18:49. | |
archives with all the ancient statutes stacked up. This is animal | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
skin. If these are impressive, what about this little job? The Daily | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
Hansard, thousands of words ensuring we have an accurate, | :18:59. | :19:06. | |
verbatim report of what our legislators say. Pretty good. MPs | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
have the ability to tidy up a little bit of what they say. Some | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
of their hesitations get taken out. John Prescott's words used to be | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
given major surgery by Hansard. It does not capture the atmosphere of | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
the Commons. When people give Russia's laughter, it just says | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
"laughter". But these daily publications capture the arguments | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
to reduce these laws. It catches ministers' answers. They cannot get | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
off the hook after this. Hansard employers dozens of reporters and | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
sub-editors with brilliant shorthand skills. You should seek | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
their fingers flying across this tomography keyboards. They turn | :19:54. | :20:02. | |
this round in record time, and it is online. The and people from | :20:02. | :20:11. | |
Hansard are really keeping the side up. Well played, lads. Jacob Rees- | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
Mogg is still with us and is one of 90 MPs who still receive | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
traditional hardback volumes of Hansard. Important to have that | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
accurate transcript of what is said in a House of Commons, but do you | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
have to have it in his very heavy hardback copy? You don't have to, | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
and I will be sorry to see it go. Is it essential to our democracy? | :20:35. | :20:45. | |
:20:45. | :20:45. | ||
Probably not. The Hansard reporters turned every day, into silk purses. | :20:45. | :20:52. | |
They are amazing. It is a record that can be kept permanently rather | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
than a temporary entry on the internet. I will be sorry to lose | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
it. You don't think it will save as much as a million pounds? All the | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
work is done, the Hansard reporters of her. It is put into order daily | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
so that is done. It is updated weekly -- weekly to make any minor | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
corrections. It is just a bit of cloth binding and printing. It is | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
hard to believe each one of those Orleans cost �350. This is | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
expensive to publish? The retail price is �105. As a publisher, I | :21:28. | :21:35. | |
can tell you the cost of producing these, a normal hardback book, �20 | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
and the Prince cost is probably a couple of pounds. That is because | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
they are mass-produced. These, several hundred copies, less than a | :21:45. | :21:52. | |
1000. You have a gold leaf on the front. They are fine looking. I | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
have a collection going back to 1945. Where do you put them? They | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
are in a garage in Essex. I'm waiting for the day I own a country | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
home! I got given them by NOP, they used to send them to every MP | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
whether they wanted them or not. He gave them to me because he never | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
looked at them. How often do you pick up your leather-bound Hansard? | :22:18. | :22:25. | |
They are not leather-bound. OK, the hardback poppy -- cocky Qamar how | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
often do pick it up and refer to it? I like looking through and | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
seeing what people had to save. Seeing if there are things that I | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
can repeat. You could do it if it was the paper bound? The difficulty | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
is, you would have to bind them together yourself. On the they are | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
all on the internet now, so it is no problem. It is harder to flick | :22:52. | :23:00. | |
through the internet. By am in favour of books. It is good for | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
looking at something specific when you are not sure of that date. But | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
it is not so good for flicking through a general discussion. | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
won't be running a campaign? but I will make a contribution | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
towards them. If you pick up any random volume and open a random | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
page, there is some interesting stuff in there but not worth �1 | :23:24. | :23:34. | |
million a year. In the months since the Government | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
launched a consultation into how gay civil marriage might be | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
introduced into law, there has been deep disquiet on back benches and | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
grassroots in the Conservative Party. At first opponents seemed to | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
tackle the idea on moral grounds but now many are suggesting there | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
is a broader and more dangerous strategy point for the Prime | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
Minister personally. Giles has been looking at whether the gay marriage | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
policy might get jilted at the altar after all. | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
Indeed a year since the civil partnership Act, over 50,000 gay | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
couples have celebrated a public declaration of their commitment. | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
Many of them, for the sake of convenience, or refer to themselves | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
as married and refer to each other as husbands or wives. But they are | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
not. The Government wants to change that and allow gay marriage. It is | :24:17. | :24:25. | |
a change the PM has backed. I don't support gay marriage in spite of | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I am a | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
Conservative. But there has been significant opposition, which has | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
seen a coalition Government face down by a coalition for marriage, | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
who say it was not in either party's manifestos, has not been | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
asked for, is now widely supported and politically upsets many | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
grassroots Conservatives. They rare thing about this particular | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
political argument is, the argument for gay marriage and the argument | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
against it, is essentially the same. That if the laws and protections | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
provided by a civil partnerships are essentially the same as those | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
provided the marriage, those in favour say, what is the difference, | :25:08. | :25:16. | |
why make a fuss? Those again say, why do you need it? It comes down | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
to the definition of one word. Those against who gathered at this | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
party conference dislike redefining marriage. To them it is between a | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
man and woman. It is fair to say Conservatives on both sides wish it | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
had not been raised in the face of bigger priorities, but those who | :25:34. | :25:41. | |
think dropping it will give third opponents the nasty party label. | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
The and those against say even gay and lesbian couples in polling | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
distrust the Prime Minister's motives. Fewer than half thing Mr | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
Cameron is sincere in his commitment to gay and lesbian | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
rights. They think he is playing politics with marriage. We think he | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
is playing politics with marriage. A lot of people think he will say | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
anything to get a vote. On an issue like gay marriage, I think he stood | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
up and is taking a risk, and I think a lot of people who may not | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
agree with him on the substance of the issue of gay marriage. If he | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
fights for this and keeps saying he believes in it because it is right, | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
it is a quality and encouraging gay people into relationships which | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
rewards stability. I think a lot of people, not necessarily sympathetic | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
to his position will admire David Cameron more at the end of that. | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
declared, because he believed in it he was going to introduce same-sex | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
marriage. And to rub salt into the wound on the day the consultation | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
ended, Mr Cameron said the will of the Government will prevail. Not | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
one response has been opened. the Prime Minister jilt the policy, | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
be forced apart by grassroots disapproval? Can he tell the | :26:57. | :27:07. | |
:27:07. | :27:08. | ||
doubters this is not a marriage of $:/STARTFEED. David Cameron said of | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
marriage it is something I feel passionate about and if it is good | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
enough for straight people like me, it is good enough for anybody. | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
agree. Once we have left the ECHR. But David Cameron is promising | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
guarantees and saying that religious freedom will be protected. | :27:28. | :27:34. | |
Because there doesn't have to be religious marriage He can't deliver | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
that. We have pressure groups and individual MPs who are saying the | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
first vicar or ministers to refuse to marry a gay couple, will be | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
straight to the European courts. Once we leave the European courts, | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
I think it is right if a couple want to be together, the community | :27:50. | :27:58. | |
and their family, they have a right to marriage. Why did you say... | :27:58. | :28:05. | |
while religious freedom is compromised You said gay marriage | :28:05. | :28:14. | |
is for the metropolitan elite. support gay marriage, I was at | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
Iain's civil part sip. Not a gay marriage. I would like to see Iain | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
and John marry if they want to. But there smub, Parliament does not | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
reflect the view of the peoples. I think gay marriage is it. If the | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
public want it, we should deliver it. I want it. But I'm not sure the | :28:34. | :28:41. | |
public do. The polls show they do. If the show that, fine. I will give | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
you a personal experience. I have entertained in my own home almost | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
200 of my activists and there are about five who supported it. The | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
polls may show people support it. You say Conservative grass roots | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
don't. No. I think David Cameron is taking us into a lot of trouble as | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
a party. Why did the Labour Party not do this? Sometimes in politics, | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
politicians have to lead public opinion. You're telling me that? | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
Indeed. That is what David Cameron is doing. I think you miswhrauns | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
the Government want to do. It is not about religion o' is -- | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
religious freedom. David Cameron said there would be no on tkwaigs | :29:27. | :29:34. | |
for any -- obligation on any religious organisation to do. | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
cannot deliver that. The first vicar who refuses to marraway gay | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
couple. Churches won't be allowed to do it. Even those who want to do | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
it. Let's move.... Ed Miliband has muddyed the water, because he said | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
he thinks that churches should be allowed to if they want to. That is | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
hen your point about the court of human rights comes in. But the | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
legislation will prohibit churches from carrying out gay marriages. | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
But the point about constituent and Conservative grass roots, what | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
Nadine is saying and the reason some people think David Cameron | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
didn't make as big an issue is because it is divisive for | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
Conservatives. Do you accept that? Nadine might be right in her party, | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
I would like to think that is not reflected across the country. I was | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
the first gay candidate to tell the selection committee I was gay and I | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
got a 66% endorsement. There were people there that were unhappy | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
about having a gay candidate. I think I won them around. Hang on a | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
second. In some areas there is still a lot of work to do on | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
thisish yuerbgs not just with Conservative activists, you could | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
go into constituency Labour Party and have the same issue. This is | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
something where the three party broadly agree. There are some | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
people who disagree for religious reasons. I respect that. What is | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
good for straight people is good for gay people. How diadviceive | :31:11. | :31:19. | |
would bit would there be -- devicive would it be for your party. | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
Some of the people who said that were parents of children who were | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
gay. And who embrace the notion of their children being in a civil | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
partnership, but it is, people do for their religious aspect don't | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
agree. Four million Christians said they would no longer vote | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
Conservative. If you believe everyone who says I will never vote | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
for a political party again because of one issue. Do people say they | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
will because of it It carries the same weight. People vote on a | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
number of issues. If David Cameron leaves gay marriage as his legacy | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
as Prime Minister, that will be... He will have done a great job. | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
will be hard for Conservative core voters to vote. He has made an | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
issue of it and if he doesn't stick to it, he will lose more | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
credibility. That is his choice. If David Cameron continues, maybe he | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
will be seen as something who drivers his point home, but it will | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
be the wrong point and will have lost us votes. You said you were in | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
favour of gay marriage. personally am but I'm not | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
personally in fave of alienating our entire Conservative vote. | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
is a simple thing you can say to people who are against gay marriage, | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
if you have a problem wit, don't marraway homosexual. Do you not | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
believe in freedom. I believe compromising the opinions of one | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
group is not right. It is no compromising any religious views. | :32:55. | :33:01. | |
We know what the consultation says. You have not seen the bill. You | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
don't know what is in it. It is hypeth thetical to say churches | :33:06. | :33:16. | |
:33:16. | :33:23. | ||
If you believe in it, shouldn't you lead your constituency? I hope it | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
is going to be a free vote issue. It is. I think Ed Miliband is going | :33:29. | :33:36. | |
to represent his. I think it should be a free vote. I am going to stop | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
it there. You can kiss and make up after the programme. Ministers have | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
said that 100,000 ash trees have been destroyed to try to prevent | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
the spread of the deadly chalara fraxinea fungus. A ban on the | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
import of ash trees came into force on Monday and an expert tree | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
disease taskforce has been established. But in the Commons | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
yesterday, Labour accused the government of being asleep on the | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
job and failing to act quickly enough. | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
And we are taking the threat posed by Chalara fraxinea, or ash dieback, | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
C Risley. We have imposed a temporary ban on imports and | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
restrictions of moments of ash trees in consultation with industry | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
and pursed risk assessment. The band will be affected before the | :34:24. | :34:31. | |
start of the main UK planting season. Preceding this ban, the | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
Horticultural Traders Association urged members to follow a voluntary | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
moratorium throughout this period, which has been well observed. | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
risk facing the UK from ash dieback is apparent. Experts fear it is the | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
biggest threat to British treasons 25 million trees were killed by | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
Dutch elm disease 30 years ago. It is disappointing the Secretary of | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
State announced a ban in Staffordshire instead of in person | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
to this house. We welcome the ban, but the question is, why did it | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
take so long? Ash dieback was found last February in Buckinghamshire. | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
Why did ministers sit back, cross their fingers and wait until the | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
disease was found in the wild in June? Why did the Horticultural | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
Traders Association act before the Government? Why did they | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
consultation on an import ban on Ashe starts only on 31st August. | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
is the disease was intercepted there has been monitoring, tracing | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
forward movements from plans from infected nurseries and inspecting | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
trees in the The City of infective sides to ascertain whether disease | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
and may be present in the wider environment. It is an enormous task | :35:41. | :35:48. | |
and involves over 1000 sites. It is ongoing. It is as a consequence of | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
that the 100,000 trees that have been destroyed have had to be taken | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
now. This episode is a terrible indictment of the Government, but | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
also of the opposition. De Horticultural Traders Association | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
warned about this disease in 2009, so neither of you houses have | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
worked hard enough and fast enough. Will the Minister reverse the trend | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
of vipers and cuts he is making to the Forestry Commission so we have | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
the resources to tackle this problem properly? She is not | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
correct in what she said. I have already explained at the sequence | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
of events and I have explained we have not in any way reduce the | :36:24. | :36:32. | |
resources available to plant health Susana Mendonca has more on this, | :36:32. | :36:40. | |
let's join her now outside Parliament. As we will hearing, | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
this Chalara fraxinea, or ash dieback has the potential impact of | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
being devastating on our ash tree population in the UK. In Denmark, | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
90% of ash trees have been destroyed. Labour don't think the | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
Government has been going far enough. I'm joined by the shadow | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
environment secretary and the Conservative MP for Hexham. Mary, | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
you were saying you do not think the Government has gone far enough. | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
They have banned the import of these ash trees and are cutting | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
down the effect of ones, is that not enough? We welcome the ban, but | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
why did it take ministers so long to act? This was found in a nursery | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
in Buckinghamshire in February. At the Horticultural Traders | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
Association implemented their own voluntary ban before the Government | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
had started consultation. They waited until it was found in the | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
wild in June and brought the ban in yesterday. It is too little too | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
late and another sign of incompetence we are used to from | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
this Government. What do you make of that, that the Government was | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
sleeping on this and should have acted sooner? She would say that. | :37:48. | :37:54. | |
We visited 1000 sites in the last eight months and cuts down 100,000 | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
trees and destroyed them. It is significant. You have to consult | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
with the businesses he will be involved in importing and the | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
Government has done that consultation, and then banned all | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
importations. That cannot happen overnight. There is also the | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
problem of it not just being the importation, it is something that | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
can be airborne. You look at examples in East Anglia and there | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
is evidence it is an airborne transfer from the Continent on | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
ongoing basis. We cannot do anything about that. This is also | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
something that has baffled and obstructed repeated countries over | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
the last 10 years, because it has been going for more than 10 years. | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
There are other countries being affected by this, Denmark and is | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
this something wider than just what the Government can do? Absolutely | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
not. My have asked the minister to publish the scientific evidence to | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
show it is airborne. When ministers and MPs say it is airborne, they | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
are creating cover for themselves as an excuse for inaction. There is | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
evidence. And there is no evidence, I have had spoken to scientists | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
over the weekend. It can be brought in either on birds or on people's | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
jackets. The country was disease free last autumn and scientists | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
were on the alert. And the trees scientists have had their budget | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
cuts from 10 million down to seven. We heard David Heath saying it is | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
not the case, in terms of research there has not been a cut that has | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
led to this. Is this just about politics? David said about the cut | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
to plant health, but he did not respond to my challenge about | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
Forest Research reduced from 12 million down to 7 million. Also | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
seven offices have closed and people have been laid off. | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
Regardless whether the cuts have resulted in this, there will be | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
people in your constituency who will be worried about this and may | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
be cuts to Forestry budgets may have caused this? There is no | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
evidence to this. Tree and plant health budgets have been maintained. | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
More money is being spent than ever before on this issue. In my | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
constituency, I have a number of forests and I met with the Forestry | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
Commission in the summer and they are working on this. Sadly, we have | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
to leave it. If people are worried, there is a new Act created way you | :40:24. | :40:32. | |
can submit any examples if you can find it. -- application. | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
As the cost of food goes up and household budgets get squeezed, | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
spare a thought for Britain's small farmers. They're facing a real | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
struggle to survive this winter. The wet summer devastated fodder | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
crops so they're facing huge bills to buy extra animal feed. And they | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
say they're also under pressure from supermarkets keen to keep | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
their costs down. Sunday Politics North West reporter, Peter Marshall, | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
reports from Cumbria. We've been joined from Plymouth by | :40:56. | :41:06. | |
:41:06. | :41:06. | ||
Mum it is an industry that is in the blood. Hill farming has been | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
through tough times in the past. This is a market in North Yorkshire. | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
Harry Hutchinson is among those looking for livestock. For the last | :41:16. | :41:26. | |
30 years he has farmed the hills. The cost of production is far above | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
what it cost the consumer to buy. We're not getting paid enough for | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
it. Does he believe some would go hungry to have enough money to feed | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
their livestock? Every hill farmer you talk to will put his stock | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
before himself. It has to come first, that is what we do. Prices | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
are holding up this autumn, but there is an expensive winter ahead. | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
The wet summer has devastated productions so farmers will have to | :41:53. | :42:00. | |
buy additional fee. On a Lancashire, Cumbria border, Robert Pennington | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
has 200 sheep to get through the winter. A lot of farmers will go | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
out of business. There was a lot of feet been sold at �60 a bail, how | :42:13. | :42:20. | |
can farmers make a living out of that. The price -- price of grain | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
is going up. It is going to be a very tight year. These may not be | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
the best of times, but most in the industry accept they are not the | :42:30. | :42:38. | |
worst of times. Images from the 2001 foot-and-mouth outbreak are in | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
our memories. And the Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
gave out nearly �30 million in aid. Amounts paid out to farming | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
families in hardship this year are smaller, but pressure is mounting. | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
We have cases in England and Wales where welfare officers have carried | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
food hampers in their cars so encases of extreme hardship, when | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
families don't have anything on the table, we can provide food and | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
supermarket vouchers as well. changes in the Common Agricultural | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
Policy being negotiated, it is a critical time. Some upland farmers | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
fear there will be changes to subsidy schemes which will make | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
life harder still, for them. It is crucial the payments available to | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
the hill farmers are able to come to those farmers, and they are able | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
to choose what they can do with them. What farmers do is, they use | :43:33. | :43:40. | |
those payments to produce food. Government's commitment to the | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
Cumbrian uplands prosperity Plan, which will bring new facilities to | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
farming communities is welcomed. Despite tough times, there is | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
confidence in the future of the industry. | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
We have been joined from Plymouth by Mary Talbot rose from the small | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
farms Association and Tim Farron. Mary, small farms are being | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
squeezed from all sides by rising costs and supermarkets demanding | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
they cut prices. Can they survive? They can, the great thing about | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
British agriculture is there is huge diversity. The important thing | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
is the West -- in the West Country is most farms are family owned. | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
They have a future as long as one or maybe more family members can | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
find employment off the farm and bring income into the farm. As you | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
report said, prices are being squeezed, profit margins for | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
farmers are constantly squeezed. We have energy costs rising and then | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
we had this horrific weather, not in this country but all over the | :44:50. | :44:56. | |
world. Extremes of climate, so the yields are down all round. | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
Farron, people don't want to pay high prices. Some people will pay | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
for small organic produce to support their local farms, but | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
people are suffering and don't want to pay higher prices. There is no | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
way around it is there? Farmers are at the bottom end of the supply | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
chain. In the middle you have supermarkets do with power. It is | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
an obvious and clear example of a broken market. When you have a few | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
huge retailers, a large number of not so well known but equally | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
powerful processors, and thousands of not very powerful farmers doing | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
the hard work. It is easy for the big four supermarkets to take the | :45:38. | :45:48. | |
:45:48. | :45:54. | ||
profit and give less than cost Do you agree? Yes they have a | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
little cabal or a war going on between them. They watch each other | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
like hawk. Once we were more sustainable. This is one thing the | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
Government should do, put a lot of effort behind farming and try to | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
explain to the public that we have become more self-sufficient and we | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
don't need to imimportant food. When you say sustainable, are you | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
talking about Government subsidising small farmers? That is | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
a big political issue, but they need to negotiate hard on the | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
common agricultural policy. There is a lot of negotiations going on | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
at the moment. There is a lot of uncertainty as to when it will be | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
introduced and what the deal will be. I think it should favour small | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
farmers. But one thing I should say the bureaucracy needs to be cut out. | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
Do you agree with that. How much should government do, would you | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
like to see further subsidies? There is a lot of support. There is, | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
but more? I it it has to be targeted. This is the hind crisis, | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
our ability to feed ours has dropped and we see more farmers go | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
out of business and we import more. It is about make sure you pay | :47:09. | :47:16. | |
farmers for the work they do. In Cumbria our tuerism - Toucheism | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
industry is worth �3 billion a year and the farmers back that and they | :47:21. | :47:29. | |
get paid nothing for that. Is a view that says why should we | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
subsidise an industry that can't support itself? I was brought up on | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
a small farm and my sympathy is with the farmer. When we joined the | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
European community, we made a decision that farming would be | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
looked at as an industry. The French and the Germans made a | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
different decision and they support their small farmers in a way | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
British governments never have. Not just by subsidy. It is too late to | :47:54. | :48:00. | |
turn the clock back. If you're a small dairy farmer producing milk | :48:00. | :48:07. | |
at 62 pence a litre, you can't compete with huge farms that can do | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
it. Aren't economies of scale something we have to face and admit | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
that food produced on a big scale... That is why they have gone out of | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
business. Because they can't compete. Don't farmers have to be | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
realistic. We are talking about economies of scale, competition, | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
you can't compete with price, so perhaps more farmers should just | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
pack up and go and do something else. A lot of them have packed up | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
and done something else. The other thing is farmers need to realise | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
they have transferable skills. And many farms that I know don't | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
survive purelyen what they produce or the live stock they produce. | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
They have to diversify within that business, or they send a family | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
member out to bring in income from outside. I went on holiday in Italy, | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
they get huge subsidies on the farms to re-create holiday homes, | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
big subs Deux would you like to see that sort of subsidy, up to 80% | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
they were telling me they were getting to diversify. You look at | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
what happens, since foot-and-mouth, there have been diversification in | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
areas that can do it. Some farms are so out of way that it is not | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
possible. In the end, on a positive note, the world population will | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
increase, because of the growing middle grass in the develople world, | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
the demand for food will double. It is a good time to be a farmer. I | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
want the UK to be at the table, rather than dropping behind and | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
having to import. Thank you for joining us. Now apparent think | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
palace of Westminster is in dire need of repairs and over the summer | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
rumours were rife that MPs might have to move out for a radical | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
overhaul of the building. James Landale has lerpbdz this won't | :49:58. | :50:07. | |
happen, because it would cost too much. James, how likely this a | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
temporary evacuation? It is still a possibility. At the meeting of the | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
body that runs Parliament, House of Commons commission, there was an | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
attempt by a senior member of the committee to kill off the idea on | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
the grounds it would do Parliament's reputation too much | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
damage to spend billions and I mean billions, De Kamping the whole of | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
Parliament while the whole place is renovated, but that idea was | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
resisted. The idea is still on the table. But what the MPs think is | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
before they consider doing that, they have to have proper business | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
plans so they know what the costs are and can make a business case | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
about value for money to voters, who may think it is not a good idea. | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
But they post pond any final decision for at least a year when | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
they do more work on what is possible and how much would it cost. | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
But they say there is a real problem, the place is full of | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
asbestos, it is a fire risk, it is 150 years old and it has not been | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
touched. Now, I don't know if you have had a chance to speak to MPs, | :51:17. | :51:25. | |
or any get any feel of support, it would be very disruptive to to move | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
everyone? Well MPs would be able to stay at their new office block. One | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
idea doing the roundss and this is a possibility, you swap, you kick | :51:35. | :51:41. | |
the Lords out of their ends, the MPs sit in the House of Lords and | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
you swap and do vice ver Alex Salmond all you are doing is moving | :51:45. | :51:52. | |
out one -- and you do vice versa. All yo doing is moving one out. One | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
option somebody said was the idea of filling a space that is next to | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
portcullis house, loads of different places where they could | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
do is. But they haven't made a decision yet. Well it doesn't sound | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
as bad ace first thought. Alcohol and politics, they complement each | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
other like strawberries and cream. That is why it is important to the | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
House of Commons authorities to dish out a new contract to provide | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
wine in the watering holes that the supply should be of hotel or | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
private club standard. Can members tell the difference? Are they that | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
discerning? In a moment we will find out. Before we whet your taste | :52:36. | :52:44. | |
buds, a note of caution, Jim Hacker. Good evening Constable. Can I see | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
your licence? Yes certain Lu. you -- aren't you Mr Jim Hacker? | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
Yes. What seems to be the trouble. Any reason you were drive sog | :52:54. | :53:01. | |
slowly? I didn't want the curb to - - kerb to hit. I didn't want to hit | :53:01. | :53:09. | |
the kerb. I have a silver badge somewhere. I see. Perhaps constable | :53:09. | :53:19. | |
:53:19. | :53:19. | ||
Evans will drive. I will drive. you're in a proper state to drive. | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
Don't drink, well not while my husband's driving. And now we have | :53:24. | :53:32. | |
been joined by the Labour MP Austin Mitchell and the wine critic, Jill | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
Ji Golden. So how good are you at deciding what is quality and what | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
is less quality wine. I have drinks here. I will give you Jacob Rees | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
Mogg the white one. You can take these two here and I'm going to | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
give you Austin Mitchell, not that I actually talk to you about | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
whether you prefer white or red, you're going to have the red. | :53:55. | :54:01. | |
is a shame, I like white. If we had more time I would swap. But it is | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
pleasing everyone. Jilly, we start with white and I'm going to keep | :54:07. | :54:17. | |
:54:17. | :54:18. | ||
the sparkling. I will sacrifice. First, Jacob Rees Mogg, try No 3. | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
And would you as well Jilly. This has been worked out with great | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
precision. Let's see if Jay xob and Jilly can tell the difference | :54:28. | :54:38. | |
:54:38. | :54:42. | ||
between. -- Jacob. That is what wine snobs do. No 4. You can try | :54:42. | :54:52. | |
:54:52. | :54:53. | ||
your other one. Have you swallowed No 3? Yes. Go on then. All right. | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
Jacob Rees Mogg, which do you think is the posh plonk and which is the | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
less posh? I have no idea. First... I don't understand why they think | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
you can't buy decent wine on the high street. It is a good question, | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
you can buy good wine on the high street. I have to challenge you for | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
saying posh plonk and none posh. Supermarkets have brilliant wine | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
and lot of it is posh. Most of us drink it. They matching what you | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
can get in pricing with this. not get from it the supermarket? It | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
would be cheaper. Which did you like more? I liked three more than | :55:39. | :55:49. | |
:55:49. | :55:53. | ||
four. Three of course is the �1995 bottle, that is a more -- �19.95 | :55:53. | :56:01. | |
bottle. That is more up market than No 4. Are both obscure Italian | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
grape varieties. I think the peck Ricoh from Marks and Spencer is | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
gorgeous and ten pounds cheaper. I like the other one, but it is a | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
more quirky wine. Let's strie Austin Mitchell on the road. -- | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
let's try Austin Mitchell on the red. I think the lore classes will | :56:23. | :56:30. | |
be worse than the upper classes in this. How does that taste? It is | :56:30. | :56:37. | |
all right. Try number six. Although he has said now he prefers the | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
white. Do the red. That is number six. Which one do you prefer? | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
prefer number six. Well Jilly, yet again. Discerning tastes. Well yes. | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
A man of the people, Austin. I only drink New Zealand wine from | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
supermarkets, because it is cheaper and better. Tell him which is which. | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
You have preferred the wine merchant wine. The expensive one. | :57:05. | :57:15. | |
:57:15. | :57:15. | ||
Yes. It's �20 I wouldn't buy it. How much is the other one? | :57:15. | :57:22. | |
number five is �10. And that is from Marks and Spencer. Is it �10 | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
better? If I had my troubles I would get plenty of that. Now I get | :57:26. | :57:34. | |
a chance to try them. I haven't been given which is which. | :57:34. | :57:43. | |
House of Commons had magnificent cellars. And then sold. Bob Maxwell | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
sold our wine. Sold it to himself didn't he Of course he did. Or gave | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
it to his friends. That is extraordinary, that is a clean | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
sweep for the whine merchants. But these are both English sparkling | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
wines which I am keen on. Marks and Spencer provided the others. | :58:03. | :58:10. | |
the Marks and Spencer, the English one is glorious. This one which is | :58:10. | :58:18. | |
from a neighbouring vine yard is �29. You all vote for the high | :58:18. | :58:24. | |
street. The high street wine for house of commons. People are | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
discerning about quality. Get the sewer market. We still have to pay. | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
It is not as if they're free. answer to our quiz and the question | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
was what is Parliament thinking doing about doing to save money. We | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
will have to give you answer tomorrow. Sorry thank you to all of | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
you. All our guest and the wine in the studio and for being our guest | :58:48. | :58:51. |