Browse content similar to 09/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon, and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
Labour and the unions trade blows. Is the report on an alleged union | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
stitch-up in the selection of an MP another union stitch-up? | :00:44. | :00:51. | |
Hague couldn't persuade his MPs, but can the US Secretary of State | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
visiting London today persuade congressmen to back military action | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
against Syria? MPs prepare to grill BBC bosses. Who | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
was it who authorised hundreds of thousands of pounds of licence fee | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
payers' money to be paid to departing colleagues? | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
And the queen of the party conference comedy circuit hangs up | :01:12. | :01:19. | |
her boots. It is a well-known truth that every | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
Lib Dem activist fancies himself in sequins! | :01:24. | :01:31. | |
Yes, the mind boggles! All that in the next hour. | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
With us for the first half of the programme today is Shadow Health | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
Minister and Labour MP Diane Abbott. Let's start with Chris Huhne. The | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
disgraced former Cabinet Minister has today claimed that the media | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
coverage which led to his downfall was what he described as "payback" | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
for his support for investigations into hacking by Rupert Murdoch's | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
News International. Mr Huhne lost his political career and his liberty | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
over his speeding conviction, a story that was uncovered by the | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Sunday Times, a paper owned by News International. Mr Huhne told the | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
Today programme this morning that, at one time, he was being was tailed | :02:04. | :02:12. | |
by a full-time investigator. All I am pointing out is that the | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
way in which this was specifically done, was a very clear payback for | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
the fact that I had been a former journalist. I wasn't able to resist | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
going public on how the police should reopen the investigation into | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
voice Male hacking and the Murdoch press. | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
Your thoughts? My thought is politicians complaining about the | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
media is like ducks complaining about the weather. I feel very sorry | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
for his family particularly the children who got caught up in it. | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
What I would recommend to Chris Huhne is a John Profumo system, | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
quiet, good works, in long period of reflection. | :02:59. | :03:06. | |
He is not taking your advice. Is that because he is, somehow, trying | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
to brazen it out, if you like? He is certainly not taking good advice. | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
It worked for John Profumo, it will work for him. Years of silence. | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
It worked for John Profumo, it will Did News International have an | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
agenda? You know, is the Pope a Catholic? Of course they have an | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
agenda. Complaining about that as a politician... You get on with it. | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
He says rather than cheap skating on the proposed investigation on | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
hacking my phone, the News of the world put me under extensive | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
surveillance by a retired policeman. Is this someone tried to | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
fight his way back into politics? The truth is he did break the law, | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
that's why he went to prison. Rupert Murdoch is a separate issue. | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. A report from Yale University today | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
suggests that politics can impair performance, but what does it make | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
you bad at? Is it: a) Relationships. B) Maths. | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
C) Grammar. Or d) Sports? At the end of the show we will give | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
you the correct answer. Now, a war of words has broken out | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
between union bosses currently gathered in Bournemouth for the TUC | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
conference, and the Labour leadership over Mr Miliband's | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
proposed changes to Labour Party funding. The Labour leader wants to | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
end the automatic affiliation of union members to the party. Members | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
would, instead, have to opt in to Labour, a policy change that could | :04:38. | :04:45. | |
cost the party millions. The changes were announced in the wake of the | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
controversy over the selection of Labour's candidate in Falkirk. The | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
Unite trade union was alleged to have packed local membership lists | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
with Unite members who were unaware they were joining Labour, in a bid | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
to get their candidate Karie Murphy selected. Ed Miliband suspended two | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
party members, including Karie Murphy, and put the Falkirk party in | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
special measures. And, in a speech, he castigated Unite and the Falkirk | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
saga, calling it: "Politics of the machine. A politics that is rightly | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
hated. What we saw in Falkirk is part of the death-throes of the old | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
politics." But then, on Friday evening, Labour | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
announced the two suspended Falkirk members would be reinstated, as they | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
were "not guilty of any wrongdoing". And Karie Murphy announced she was | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
withdrawing her nomination for the Falkirk seat. | :05:33. | :05:42. | |
Labour also said, "Key evidence has been withdrawn". The current Labour | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
MP for Falkirk, Eric Joyce, has said the key witnesses were "prevailed | :05:45. | :06:36. | |
upon" to withdraw their statements. They may be keen to move on, and | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
they were criticised by Ed Miliband, he said there were serious | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
issues, labour besmirched by the behaviour of if you individuals. It | :06:46. | :06:53. | |
is wrong, the practices would not have Len McCluskey defending this | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
kind of machine politics. He made a big deal about this. Now we find | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
that evidence has been withdrawn and the report will not be published. | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
Should it be? Len McCluskey has said he is happy | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
he wants to move on and work with the Labour Party. This is a | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
Westminster story, ordinary people in Hackney are not talking about | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
this. Ed Miliband make a begin of it. He | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
launched his reform of the relationship between Labour and the | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
unions on this. The people around Ed Miliband feel | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
under pressure. They are determined to prove he is not a puppet. He is | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
not, that is a fact. That was then, this is now. | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
So was it a mistake by Ed Miliband to go in as hard as he did, over | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
what he alleges what happened in Falkirk? | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
We are all going to move on. You Falkirk? | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
keep saying that but can you move on when there has been an | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
investigation, a report that has now not been published, when that | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
investigation has found the two suspended individuals have now been | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
proven innocent? We can move on. George Osborne is | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
boasting how well the economy is doing, but my stitch whence are | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
under the cosh in terms of living standards. This was a Westminster | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
bubble story. It was not, this was Ed Miliband, | :08:24. | :08:31. | |
his platform from which he launched his big reform of the relationship | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
with the unions. If Len McCluskey is ready to move | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
on, surely the media should be. Is Ed Miliband happy with the | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
conclusions, does he not need to demand that report is published? | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
Otherwise we can't make a judgement. He must want to address the big | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
issues, living standards, zero hours contracts. | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
Tom Watson has said those comments about unite should be retracted from | :09:01. | :09:08. | |
Jim Murphy. But no one will move on until this | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
squabbling in Labour, until some things are sorted out. | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
Should Jim Murphy beat apologising? There are far bigger issues, Syria, | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
living standards, what's really happening to ordinary people. We | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
have to move on. What do you say to the two people | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
who were suspended? Karie Murphy has agreed to stand down for the best | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
interests of the party. If someone apologised, that would | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
draw a line underneath it? I am not supporting those calls. | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
When asked about what was in the original report, he said this | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
enquiry says people were being signed up to the party without their | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
knowledge. He says people were being asked to sign up to the Labour Party | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
on condition they supported certain candidates, that is why we have | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
suspended to individuals. On Friday, it was announced no rules | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
were broken. He was from. You need to ask Ed Miliband about | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
that. Somebody was wrong here. Either the witnesses and their | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
account wasn't correct and there was a problem with evidence, which would | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
be very serious. Or they were telling the truth but have been | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
persuaded to withdraw evidence. What other explanation could there be? | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
There is no conspiracy here. You would have been persuaded to | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
withdraw evidence. What other explanation could there be? There is | :10:42. | :10:43. | |
withdraw evidence. What other no conspiracy here. You how to ask | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
Ed Miliband. As I understand, Unite did nothing in Falkirk that other | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
organisations weren't doing. So Ed Miliband was wrong to pursue it? Ed | :10:52. | :10:59. | |
Miliband is never wrong. It can't be that the unions weren't doing | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
anything wrong, and that Ed Miliband... You must ask him, maybe | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
there was a misunderstanding. Are you embarrassed? Nope.Why don't you | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
want to talk about it? People have other things they want to talk | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
about. There is an element of truth and element of trust. There is and | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
Ed Miliband and the trade unions are committed to modernising the way the | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
unions relate to Labour. Going well so far? You will see by the end of | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
the week. So, tomorrow, Ed Miliband addresses | :11:37. | :11:38. | |
the TUC conference in Bournemouth, So, tomorrow, Ed Miliband addresses | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
determined, apparently, to reform the link with the unions. But just | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
how money does Labour risk losing in these changes? Here's David. | :11:44. | :11:58. | |
I do not promise easy time. That was before he decided to reform their | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
links with the unions. They may be comrades but they are not always | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
friends. Ed Miliband may have won the leadership on the back of union | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
votes but it is clear he wants to reform the relationship between the | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
party and its biggest paymasters. What is not clear is the | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
consequences of that decision. A new beginning or the beginning of the | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
end? The consequences could be drastic. I am on record saying this | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
could be the gamble of the century, a political gamble. It could force | :12:30. | :12:39. | |
the financial meltdown of the Labour Party as it stands. | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
Here is why he is talking in such apocalyptic terms. Union members | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
have to watch out if they want to avoid paying an affiliation fee to | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
Labour. Last year, those fees raised £8 million, a quarter of its total | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
income. Under the reforms, members would have to opt in which could | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
cost dear. Last week, the GMB said its affiliation fees would drop by | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
£1 million to reflect the move. Unite reckons the party would lose | :13:09. | :13:16. | |
£3 million from its members. Big numbers but not enough to deter | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
those who crave reform. If you worry about something that needs to be | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
tackled as a matter of principle because you might lose some money, | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
you are looking at this from the wrong end. This is about a new type | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
of politics, after the expenses scandal, this is about a new | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
settlement. Ed Miliband's strength is he understands a need for a new | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
settlement. But that is the kind of armaments which antagonises people | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
within the union movement. The money the party is means -- receiving from | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
the union movement is the most transparent money in politics. | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
People have a right to be insulted by that. While the proposals might | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
hit affiliation fees, the unions could still donate. So things as | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
drastic as they seem? I would find it amazing, and many | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
unions are not affiliated, but they know their ambitions, their view of | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
life, it is very similar to the Labour Party. So I would be very | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
surprised if they did not contribute to those objectives. | :14:23. | :14:29. | |
TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady joins us now live from | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
Bournemouth. Welcome. | :14:34. | :14:42. | |
You said earlier today, union money is the cleanest cash in politics. | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
Would it be more less keen if individual had two. -- had to opt | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
in? That is a matter for the Labour | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
Party. What do you think? The real dirt in politics hasn't been | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
tackled. People are far more worried about the grip that people in the | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
City have over politics, half of donations to the Conservative party | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
come from the City, than freely given from nurses, train drivers. | :15:13. | :15:30. | |
Ed Miliband has already made it clear the direction he wants to | :15:30. | :15:41. | |
take... What do you think?The TUC is not affiliated to the Labour | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
Party and most of our unions are not affiliated to the Labour Party but | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
we do share concern that we want an agenda for decent jobs, fair pay and | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
a fair share of the rewards as and when economic recovery comes. What | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
do you say when Ed Miliband will say, we need to build a party truly | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
rooted in the lives of all the working people in Britain once | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
more. What does that say about the efforts of the trade unions to do | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
the same? We represent 6 million people. I think we do a good job of | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
it. I don't think we would be talking about zero hours contracts, | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
the need for living wage and unfair pay if it wasn't for the trade union | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
movement and I am proud for that. Voters want a real agenda for a | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
fairer Britain and some answers about how we are going to get there. | :16:36. | :16:42. | |
There is also an opinion poll that shows the majority of unions are | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
backing Ed Miliband's plans to reform the relationship with the | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
unions and how they are funding Labour. A lot of union leaders have | :16:50. | :16:57. | |
already been clear about that. Len McCluskey has welcomed the | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
initiative to modernise and reform the link for the 21st-century. This | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
has happened over the Labour Party's entire history. There is | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
nothing new about that. Its rules are not written in stone, it is a | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
broad church and they will change with the time. Do you support... 100 | :17:16. | :17:24. | |
relieved hands of Labour Party funding? That is a matter for the | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
GMB but the real issue that ordinary working people are talking about is | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
how to get that 1 working people are talking about is | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
people back to work, not any job but a decent job, how do we get fair | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
pay, and that when we do get a recovery it doesn't all go into | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
bumper bonuses in the city of but into people 's pay packets. -- in | :17:47. | :17:57. | |
the City but into people's pay packets. 86% of members of Unite | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
believe it is right to introduce a packets. 86% of members of Unite | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
cap on benefits but that is not the position of the unions. Our concern | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
about the benefit cap is that the majority of the benefits go to low | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
paid workers in work, who are dependent on tax credits to get by | :18:17. | :18:25. | |
when instead, and this is a key point, we should tackle the root | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
cause of low pay. I want those employers in those industries that | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
can afford to pay a fair wage and offer fair working conditions should | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
do so. We need employers and unions to get around the table, supported | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
by government, to get that right. Ordinary families have lost £30 a | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
week on average out of their pay back its troop cuts in real pace | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
since the financial crash that they did nothing to cause -- out of their | :18:58. | :19:05. | |
pay packets through cuts. Meanwhile top pay has gone through the roof. | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
People have a real appetite for fairness and politicians of all | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
political parties need to start listening. Except one could argue | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
you are not representing working listening. Except one could argue | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
people on the issue of welfare and the benefit cap because the majority | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
of Unite members support the benefit cap and you don't. I think if you | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
ask trade union members, do they want to see fair pay and employers | :19:30. | :19:37. | |
stopping offering zero hours contracts, you will get a very clear | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
answer. That workers should not have to rely on state hand-outs when | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
employers can afford to pay more. That is the way to get the deficit | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
down. The same goes for the housing benefit bill. Frances O'Grady in | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
Bournemouth, thank you very much. Last time you were on the programme | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
we asked you about angry comments from trade union general secretaries | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
and you laugh them off and said they did not mean what they said. Now | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
they have taken action. The GMB has withdrawn £1 million of funding to | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
the Labour Party. They are withdrawn £1 million of funding to | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
their money where their mouth is. The leadership of the major trade | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
unions, Len McCluskey, Paul Kenny, very strongly support the Labour | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
Party. Their problem is that on this issue they are a little to the right | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
than their activists but in all the unions there are a very large amount | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
of members who do not support the party. Dave Prentice did not sound | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
supportive to Labour. He has been a solid supporter to successive Labour | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
leaders. Trade union money is a matter for them but I do not believe | :20:56. | :21:05. | |
Ed Miliband... You think they will reverse the decision to cut the | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
money to the Labour Party? I am not saying that, no. It is like a family | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
quarrel but at the end of the day the unions will not see the Labour | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
Party destitute. That, I believe. But it is a natural conclusion to | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
what the Labour Party is proposing, so how will the party afford to run | :21:29. | :21:36. | |
the next election? No doubt the people around Ed Miliband have | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
factored that in. Do you talk to Ed Miliband much about these issues, | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
like Falkirk? You are a frontbencher, it sounds like you do | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
not have any discussions with him? I am very humble on the front bench. | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
So are you not in his inner circle? I am a very humble frontbencher. | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
Will I am seeing is the trade unions will not see the Labour Party | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
destitute. -- all that I am saying. You said Ed Miliband had a mission | :22:09. | :22:18. | |
to detoxify the label Red Ed. I did not say that. The talk in the | :22:18. | :22:27. | |
newspapers is nonsense, that he is Red Ed. But not that the union | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
supported him and that is how he won. The unions voted for | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
supported him and that is how he because they wanted to block David | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
at all costs, that is what that was about. Thank you. Don't go away. | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
It is set to be a tough week for Barack Obama who is trying to | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
convince the US Congress and Senate to support military strikes in | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
Syria. On this side of the Atlantic, this morning the American Secretary | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
of State John Kerry and William Hague have discussed Syria, with | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
William Hague insisting Britain and America are closely aligned. A | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
little earlier John Kerry explained why there should be support for | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
action against the Assad government. I think it would be good to hear | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
people saying to a dictator, keep your hands off chemical weapons that | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
kill your own people. Protect your own people. I think it's important | :23:13. | :23:22. | |
for us to stand up as nations for civility and against actions that | :23:22. | :23:30. | |
challenge notions of humanity and decency and appropriate | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
international behaviour for almost 100 years. The world has stood | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
together against the use of chemical weapons and we need to hear an | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
appropriate outcry as we think back on those moments of history when | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
large numbers of people have been killed because the world was silent. | :23:47. | :23:56. | |
We have our special correspondent in New York. Andrew. Welcome! | :23:56. | :24:04. | |
Good afternoon on a beautiful New York morning. | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
One does wonder why, when Great Britain is going to be joining | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
forces with America, John Kerry was standing shoulder to shoulder with | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
William Hague. This will make no influence, it is | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
not even being watched over here. If This will make no influence, it is | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
the vote was held in Congress today, the president would lose. He | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
might squeak through in the Senate, although I am not sure of that. He | :24:34. | :24:42. | |
would certainly lose in the House. 227 members of them have already | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
said they would be against a strike and you only need 217 for a | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
majority, so if it was today, it would go the way of David Cameron in | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
the House of Commons. How much has he got to do to | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
persuade enough people to make the certain of success? | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
He is not certain of success and he has a mountain to climb. He is | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
giving interviews to six networks today, which will all appear on | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
prime time tonight. He is addressing the nation from the Oval Office | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
tomorrow life and there is a massive lobbying campaign going on in | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
Congress. That is a powerful business. The president is up | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
against a more powerful machine, public opinion. Senators and | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
congressmen are coming back from their constituencies over the | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
weekend reporting huge public opposition to any kind of strike | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
against Syria. One Congressman's said to me, to say 99% of my people | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
are against it is to overestimate the support for it. Those that have | :25:51. | :26:00. | |
electoral ambitions are against it, like the senior senator, Democrat, | :26:00. | :26:08. | |
for Arkansas. It will be very hard indeed. At the moment the president | :26:08. | :26:15. | |
is staring defeat in the face. What will that mean for his | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
presidency? For him, politically? The stakes are high. | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
It will be devastating for the president if he loses because it | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
will show that he has not got the power to get his way in Congress | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
when it comes to major issues power to get his way in Congress | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
foreign policy and indeed, the elephant in the room is not Syria. | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
The strongest briefing we are getting from the administration is | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
that if the Americans do not agree to a strike against the 9/11 | :26:46. | :26:54. | |
regime, by the way Assad has appeared on American network | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
television this morning reminding Americans of the difficulty of their | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
past experiences in the Middle East, but the line is that if the White | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
House does not respond to the chemical attacks in Syria, the | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
Iranians will not believe any threats they make against them. If | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
he loses this, my feeling is we will have a lame duck president for the | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
rest of his tenure. Second terms are always very difficult for American | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
presidents, they do not have pulling power to bring people along. If he | :27:28. | :27:34. | |
loses this vote in Congress, he will be even more of a lame duck | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
president. What about the timetable of these | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
events? What about the timetable of these | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
We are beginning to get procedural motions this week and there could be | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
a substantial vote on Friday but I do not think the House, and he needs | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
to win in both the House and the Senate, I do not think they will | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
come until sometime next week and these long delays, he let Congress | :28:00. | :28:07. | |
comeback after those summer holiday in the natural way, delaying any | :28:07. | :28:14. | |
possible attack, it is like he has done a save the date card to Assad | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
saying, I will get to you in September. The fact there is this | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
delay also means that many in Congress to not think the president | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
is really serious about this and they are not going to go along with | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
it. Presumably if Congress does not | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
support this, even though he could go ahead with military action as | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
commander in chief, he wouldn't. It is inconceivable if he loses the | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
vote in Congress that he would proceed with military action. He | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
will not say so in public but White House aides are sailing Congress | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
will have to vote and if it doesn't, there will not be a strike -- are | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
saying. I will bring you back a present if | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
you get Diane Abbott to answer a question. | :29:09. | :29:15. | |
It is a deal! Answer the questions or I do not get the present! It | :29:15. | :29:23. | |
looks now as if any military response is hanging in the balance. | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
You must be pleased but listening to John Kerry, it will leave the Assad | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
regime unpunished. I will not comment on American policy but I | :29:33. | :29:40. | |
will say this. Bombing Syria would almost certainly make things worse | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
and it would suck us into a Syrian Civil War and that is why the | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
majority of the British public and the American public are against it | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
and that is why it would be very unwise to bring the issue back to | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
the House of Commons for a second vote. You think it would be a | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
mistake. Cameron must think so as vote. You think it would be a | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
well otherwise he would not have been so emphatic. Even more of his | :30:04. | :30:13. | |
own MPs will vote against the first time and that would be a | :30:13. | :30:21. | |
humiliation. Let me try again, is Ed Miliband minded, if circumstances | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
change dramatically, William Hague there said there was a possibility, | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
that a second vote could be had in the Commons? Would let Ed Miliband | :30:30. | :30:51. | |
support it? Really, there has to be a United Nations resolution. If | :30:51. | :31:02. | |
Congress... Would that not be enough? | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
If there is a UN resolution, of course we would support it. But | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
failing that, and a great many of us believe that to get involved in | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
bombing Syria and getting sucked into a civil war would be a big | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
mistake. If David Cameron manages to get Ed | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
Miliband on board, would you be on board? | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
Not unless there is a UN resolution. The BBC Director-General Tony Hall | :31:28. | :31:36. | |
sent an email to all staff this morning saying today's going to be a | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
"tough one" for the corporation. Yes, another one. | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
This afternoon, no fewer than seven former and current BBC bigwigs will | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
appear before the Public Accounts Committee in the Commons. And all | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
eyes will be on former Director General Mark Thompson and BBC Trust | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
Chairman Chris Patten, who have been trading public blows over who knew | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
what about controversial severance packages for departing executives. | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
Mark Thompson says the trust knew about the hundreds of thousands | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
being paid out. But here's what Chris Patten told the committee back | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
in July. For us, we asked for this report | :32:12. | :32:20. | |
because we were concerned about the overall size of severance payments, | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
and wanted to see if we could reduce them, albeit the fact that they were | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
contractual, it was a question of shock and dismay for us to discover | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
how many had been beyond contractual, and even higher than | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
they needed to be. Where they can seek -- exceeded | :32:37. | :32:44. | |
contractual obligations, should the trust have known? | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
Yes. And if you recall, The Conservative MP Chris | :32:45. | :33:03. | |
Heaton-Harris is a member of the Public Accounts Committee, and will | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
be questioning BBC bosses this afternoon. He joins us now. | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
It is unusual to speak to all of the witnesses simultaneously, if you | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
like, why? Because they are contradicting each | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
other, so it is easier to whittle out a tiny bit of the truth by | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
having them all answer each other's questions. It will be an interesting | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
dynamic, there is no love lost between certain members of the | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
panel. Chris Patten has said he hopes it | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
will be reasonably dignified, what are the chances of that? It should | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
be. Everything we do is reasonably | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
dignified. What the panel does to each other, who knows? | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
Did you have problems persuading them to appear alongside each other? | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
It was relatively smooth in sorting out the logistics. | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
What do you want to hear from Mark Thompson today? | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
We want to hear from the trust and Mark Thompson what actually happened | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
with these very big payoffs. We have conflicting versions. | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
We want to find out the truth, the committee has not had access to BBC | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
accounts before 2010. Every time we have scratched the surface, | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
especially at the top, this is about the top echelons of the BBC and | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
nothing to do with the general rank and file of staff. At the top, there | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
are definite issues about how public money has been spent. | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
Rob Wilson said if it turns out the trust approved excessive payments it | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
is not tenable for Chris Patten to continue. Do you agree? It depends | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
if he knew about them. There is a scenario that Mark | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
Thompson and Chris Patten are telling the truth. | :34:49. | :34:55. | |
Mark Thompson has evidence he claims that the trust, including Chris | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
Patten, did know about the payments being made. He might have sent an | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
e-mail to Chris Patten or the trust office which could have been generic | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
and not specifying detail. That is something we are going to | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
ask this afternoon. You're not expecting a definitive | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
answer if you are conceding actually both could be right. | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
I have just given you a scenario where this could possibly be that | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
both of them are telling pretty much where this could possibly be that | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
the truth. Are you hoping to get to the bottom of it? | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
I am expecting so. The chairman Margaret Hodge is very good at that | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
sort of thing. There are MPs on the committee who are very good in | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
visitors. Lucy Adams has already admitted | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
misleading the committee over an e-mail that she didn't seem to | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
remember at the time, but then admitted she took part in drafting | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
it. Is there a punishment for that? She has said she will leave the BBC, | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
it might speed that up. It depends on what Tony Hall thinks about this. | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
A man who has come in to do a job, not expecting it to be such a choppy | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
ride as he has had since coming into post. I think he was quite reliant | :36:09. | :36:17. | |
on Lucy Adams doing this. Losing that key member of staff in that H R | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
position and then finding the evidence she gave to the committee | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
was whether a deliberate untruth or a mistake, incorrect, must be very | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
disappointing. Is there a punishment for misleading | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
disappointing. the committee? There is but I don't | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
think we will be giving her a public dressing down. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
Should she go early though? Do you as a committee member think she | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
should? Personally, I think she should, yes. | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
What do you think? I think it is an internal BBC | :36:51. | :37:02. | |
matter. We know that 99% of you are not getting millions of pounds. She | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
matter. We know that 99% of you are says, bitterly! | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
What has this done to public trust in the corporation? I don't think it | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
helps. It gives the impression that everyone in the corporation is | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
overpaid. The issue is important, the infighting is not edifying. | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
But the issue itself is important, if there were over payments that | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
were not contractually necessary. If this was a private sector company | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
it would clearly be what they wanted to do. But the BBC, it gets | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
attention from scrutineers, like Chris. As I say, it is sad, it | :37:40. | :37:47. | |
reflects poorly on what is actually a great institution. | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
There are suggestions the trust could be abolished. It will set up | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
under Labour. Should the regulator be Ofcom? | :37:54. | :38:01. | |
I think we are moving towards that. You do. I think so. | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
They keep the organising and changing but it doesn't seem to | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
work. What about you? | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
I am not sure. The National audit report stresses there are government | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
issues at trust level. And, unfortunately, for the BBC as a | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
whole, the BBC Trust has maybe done some inaccurate and bad things, and | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
now the BBC gets a public bashing for it. That is slightly unfair. | :38:32. | :38:39. | |
But, this is the way we work in media, you get plenty of attention | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
when something bad happens and not media, you get plenty of attention | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
so much attention otherwise. Whoever it is, Ofcom, there will be | :38:45. | :38:54. | |
politicians who find something to criticise. | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
So, time now to look at what's on the political agenda this week, and | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
it's shaping up to be a busy one. Tomorrow, Labour leader Ed Miliband | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
faces a key test of his leadership, addressing union leaders at the TUC | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
conference in Bournemouth. On Wednesday, Parliament's Public | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
Accounts Committee holds a hearing on the Iain Duncan Smith's troubled | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
Universal Credit plans for benefits. This follows last week's criticism | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
of the system by the National Audit Office. | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
On Thursday, the Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, gives | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
evidence to the Treasury Select Committee on the August quarterly | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
inflation report. And party conference season begins this week. | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
The Greens are in Brighton on Friday. And this weekend, the Lib | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
Dems gather in Glasgow. We're joined from College Green by | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
Pippa Crerar of the London Evening Standard, and the Daily Mail's | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
Andrew Pierce. No doubt really looking forward to | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
the conference season. Pepper, is Ed Miliband doing the right thing in | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
terms of reforming the relationship with the unions? | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
He may well be but there's not much he can do about it because there is | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
no going back. Having made such a big deal about reforming the link | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
with the unions, he has two see it through. Can you imagine if he said | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
he made a mistake? It would send a message of weakness within the party | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
and to the unions. The bottom line is the majority want to see the link | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
performed. Ed Miliband, having had the union support, has always been | :40:26. | :40:34. | |
seen as being in thrall to them. So it is important to show that he is | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
able to create some degree of separation, and modernise the | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
relationship. That is not to say not to have a strong link but to make | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
sure it is not seem as if they have an overbearing influence on policy. | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
This row was a gift for the Conservatives. | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
The majority of trade union members are backing Ed Miliband. Could he | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
come out of this stronger? Only if he wins. If he doesn't, he | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
will look like a lame duck Labour leader. This is a futile scrap with | :41:13. | :41:20. | |
the unions. A knee jerk response to Falkirk. He overreacted, telling us | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
there was evidence of wrongdoing. Then on Friday night, there is | :41:25. | :41:32. | |
nothing wrong in Falkirk at all, suggestions there may have been | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
union manipulation. It has wrong-footed him and made him look | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
weak. He has already lost money from one of the unions. He needs a | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
coherent alternative economic strategy which they are miserably | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
failing to do. He is petrified he may not win. The British public | :41:52. | :41:59. | |
don't give a hoot about this. On the economy, how difficult is | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
this for Labour? George Osborne arguing Labour has been proved | :42:04. | :42:12. | |
wrong. Growth is back. It is a tricky strategic decision | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
George Osborne made in his speech. He has decided that he wants to | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
hammer home the message the economy is moving thanks to the column -- | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
the Conservatives. But there is a danger of things not progressing as | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
fast as he would like. Recovery has been slow so far. And there is a | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
danger of him appearing complacent. We remember George Bush after the | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
invasion of Iraq saying, mission accomplished. There is a long way to | :42:44. | :42:54. | |
go and Ed Miliband would be do well to do this, to hammer home the | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
message that, for working people, things are not better yet, even if | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
the economy is heading in the right direction. Living standards, | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
household budgets are high, there is the spectre of another house prices | :43:08. | :43:14. | |
bubble. People are feeling the pinch. Wages are lower than when | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
David Cameron took power. Labour will be hammering home that. The | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
economy will have centre ground closer to the general election. | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
How careful does he have to be or is he sounding more confident about the | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
economy and himself? He is, a poll yesterday suggested | :43:33. | :43:45. | |
if... There is this just G of talking up the economy. I can see | :43:45. | :43:52. | |
the point of that. The Daily Telegraph says, I have saved the | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
economy, which is over the top. Gordon Brown said he saved the world | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
or the banking system, I can't remember which. It is putting | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
pressure on Labour. They said all along austerity doesn't work, you | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
have to spend your way out of recession. Statistics are still | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
fragile but looking more positive. And beginning to show the austerity | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
programme is working. Some Tories today have said if only he had been | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
more vigorous on austerity and cut public spending more, the economy | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
would be looking even better. Enjoyed the converse is, thank you | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
very much. I'm sure we will try hard. | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
With me now for the rest of the programme, the cream of 2010 intake: | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
Labour's Anas Sarwar. The Liberal Democrat MP Tessa Munt. | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
And the Conservative MP Chris Skidmore. | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
Welcome to the programme. Let us talk first about the | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
economy. The Chancellor George Osborne has been making a speech | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
today in which he said the UK economy is turning a corner. | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
If economic collapse was even worse than we thought, preparing it will | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
take even longer than we hoped. But we held our nerve, when many told us | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
to abandon our plan. And, as a result, thanks to the efforts and | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
sacrifices of the British people, Britain is turning a corner. Many | :45:16. | :45:22. | |
risks remain. These are still the early stages of recovery. But we | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
must not go back to square one. We must not lose what the British | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
people have achieved. At PMQ 's Ed Balls used to do the | :45:29. | :45:42. | |
famous flat-lining gesture to show the economy was not moving. Last | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
week they had their own gesture to show we are returning to growth. Ed | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
Balls's economic strategy has been undermined. The Chancellor has been | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
doing this for three years and now he is trying to make it positive. | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
Let's take the experiences of our he is trying to make it positive. | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
friends and families. They will see every day we do not have the right | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
types of jobs, we have youth unemployment at record levels, too | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
many women are out of work, the quality of jobs and the rise in zero | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
hours contracts, low wages, too many people below the living wage and... | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
That is Labour's new economic case, fine. But we have sat here for the | :46:29. | :46:36. | |
past three years listening to Labour politicians saying austerity would | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
choke growth. It has been proved wrong. Labour has to admit that | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
before moving on. We had growth wrong. Labour has to admit that | :46:43. | :46:50. | |
the economy when the Tories came into government and unemployment was | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
falling, and then unemployment started to rise when they came in | :46:54. | :47:03. | |
and we had a double dip recession. George is right to say this recovery | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
is built on the back of the British people. 29.7 million people | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
employed, more than in any other age. But is it as a result of his | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
policies that recovery has come? I think so. The deficit has gone from | :47:19. | :47:28. | |
11% to 7%. And is now flat-lining. Mortgage rates have remained stable | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
so working families campaign the bills. Why did Labour opposed the | :47:32. | :47:39. | |
coalition policy of ensuring that the £10,000 remains tax-free so that | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
we took 1.2 million people out of income tax altogether. Why did you | :47:44. | :47:54. | |
oppose also... Reports clearly show that people are earning less by the | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
end of this government and they were earning at the beginning of this | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
government. Petrol is 10p cheaper. Your constituents not feeling the | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
pain because mine are? Living costs would be worse if Labour are in | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
power -- were in power. But you admit, prices are rising, wages are | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
not rising, people do not feel better off. Do you accept your | :48:21. | :48:28. | |
constituents do not feel better off? As George said, it is a slow | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
recovery. We need to ensure that the only way to get wages rising in the | :48:32. | :48:40. | |
longer term is to increase the economy overall. You are accepting | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
it has got worse under this government? It would be even worse | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
under Labour. Don't talk over each other because it is difficult for | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
viewers. Chris Skidmore, it saying it would have been worse under | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
Labour. IU supporting the plan to spend £12 billion to boost recovery | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
-- are you supporting? That was a major part of the plan. Absolutely. | :49:06. | :49:13. | |
You have to get the right type of borrowing. There is no point... You | :49:13. | :49:21. | |
should increase borrowing to increase capital investment, | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
increase quality jobs right across the country. That is what will get | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
the economy moving and living standards up. Not the current | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
scheme. Do people feel better off in your constituency? A number of | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
people feel better off because of the things the Lib Dems have | :49:41. | :49:50. | |
brought, we have made sure that £700 people have more in their pay | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
packets... Even though their wages are falling and their fuel bills are | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
packets... Even though their wages going up. We are making sure there | :49:56. | :50:04. | |
is a tax cash back for people, £2000, various things in motion to | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
make sure we ensure that job stay in the economy. There is a million more | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
private-sector jobs. We want to create another million. Governments | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
do not create those jobs. We have got the regional growth fund to | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
do not create those jobs. We have structure more money into the | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
regions for businesses, the business bank, the green investment bank, we | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
regions for businesses, the business have invested in wind power we have | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
made sure the structure is there to support various different | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
industries. Company still complain that banks are not lending. Of | :50:39. | :50:48. | |
course. Our bank has committed to 700 million. The point you have | :50:48. | :50:55. | |
made, you have caught the Labour Party out. They spent three years | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
saying we should go down a different plan but the reality is they dropped | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
that message at the beginning of the summer and slowly, things look as | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
though they are going in the right direction. We need to be cautious, | :51:08. | :51:16. | |
because it is only two quarters that things have been going better, we | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
because it is only two quarters that have to go carefully, but things | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
because it is only two quarters that will get better. We need long-term, | :51:21. | :51:30. | |
well-paid, full-time jobs and we are seeing zero hour contracts, | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
part-time jobs on the rise, and speak to any business in any | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
constituency, they still feel the squeeze. There is a commitment to | :51:40. | :51:46. | |
spend 700 million. We don't need a commitment, we need people spending | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
that money to create wealth and jobs. Not continued pledges from the | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
Chancellor. Tests, it is interesting said things will get it. Things get | :51:55. | :52:03. | |
better, nothing to do with government policies. And it is | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
fragile, you said yourself. Yes, and it would be mad to say it is all | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
sorted because I am not sure that is sensible. We have to make sure we | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
keep helping businesses to create jobs. Is it risky for George Osborne | :52:17. | :52:24. | |
to save the economy has turned a corner? I would not say that but I | :52:24. | :52:31. | |
am not the Chancellor! I would not say that. There are a number of | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
other fact is that could change. So this is a high risk strategy. Your | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
coalition partner is saying growth is very fragile. All the signs you | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
have seen show this is a balanced recovery. Manufacturing is at its | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
highest level for 19 years. You cannot deny that there are positive | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
signs but that does not stop us from being complacent. We must fight | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
harder to get more people into work. We want to make sure hard-working | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
people are rewarded. Now, the Liberal Democrat conference starts | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
next week, but with Sarah Teather announcing that she's going to stand | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
down at the next election, who's going to do the stand-up? I thought | :53:13. | :53:19. | |
I wouldn't keep you for too long tonight because I want to get back | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
to my hotel room to watch Strictly Come Dancing but coming back to | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
George Osborne, I heard he wants to Come Dancing but coming back to | :53:27. | :53:34. | |
do a line dance on the show. Brave of Sarah Teather. I take it you will | :53:34. | :53:43. | |
not replace her in that? I do not do comedy! You are set to lose a woman | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
MP. Add news for a party -- bad news for a party that has more men than | :53:50. | :54:03. | |
women in Toluca Micro. Yes. Sarah has been a fantastic member of | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
Parliament. She should be very proud of the work she has done. She fought | :54:07. | :54:14. | |
for special needs young people and their parents and did a fantastic | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
job as Minister for education. But she said she left feeling desolate | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
and catastrophically depressed by some of the lip Dem policies. I did | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
hear that quote. I would take a different view. My job is when | :54:28. | :54:36. | |
something is wrong, to make people know about it. Is she alone in | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
feeling like this in the party? I think it would be an unusual | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
response. If I feel something is wrong, I knocked on doors of the | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
ministers. They put their nameplate on. That is the point of being in | :54:52. | :54:59. | |
coalition. The power that we have a disproportionate, as I am sure many | :54:59. | :55:05. | |
of Chris's colleagues would say, but we can influence. She felt she | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
of Chris's colleagues would say, but couldn't influence even as a | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
minister, on things like immigration. She felt depressed | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
minister, on things like about the benefits cap. Is that | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
because she has been more principled on Liberal Democrat policies than | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
others? Absolutely not. I am as good as the briefing I get from my | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
constituents. I have my own opinions but I very often depend on my | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
constituents to tell me what they feel strongly about. We need to get | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
our voice heard in government. Nick Clegg, in his defence, he cannot | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
mind read what 57 of us are thinking. She made her views pretty | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
clear. But do you think that as Ming Campbell said, she could not take | :55:50. | :55:56. | |
the heat? He said that coalition was not for the faint-hearted and that | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
is right. She has a different way of dealing with things. We went into | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
coalition to sort the country out and that is what she is trying to | :56:07. | :56:14. | |
do. Is she going to defect? I feel sorry for her. The bigger point is | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
this is a politician choosing to jump before the politicians per | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
share. This is a seat that Labour needs to win. I think she has | :56:24. | :56:31. | |
probably seen that. This is the time when everybody makes their | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
decisions... I will have to leave it there. | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
We were told HS2 had the potential to transform the economic shape of | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
the UK, but this morning the Commons Public Accounts Committee has said | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
estimated benefits of the planned high-speed rail link are dwindling | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
as costs rise. Margaret Hodge, the chair of the Committee, has | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
explained why she has changed her position. I have looked at the | :56:50. | :56:57. | |
detail of the project. I have moved from being a supporter to thinking | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
this is not the right place to put £50 billion of money. I am not | :57:01. | :57:07. | |
alone. There are a growing number of voices who are sceptical about this | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
project. I think the government needs to listen seriously, not leave | :57:12. | :57:22. | |
this as a vanity project. We must increase rail capacity to ensure | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
overcrowding does not take place. We had these debates probably when | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was building! I welcome the fact the | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
Labour Party are still having a cross-party position to support | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
this. Alistair Darling is withdrawing his support. I still | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
support High Speed Two. The West Coast Main line in Scotland will | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
reach capacity in ten years. We need millions off the road, to free up | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
space. That is a plus. Connectivity is a big thing. The further north | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
the line goes, the more value it is is a big thing. The further north | :58:00. | :58:06. | |
for us. I have always been a massive supporter for investment in rail and | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
public transport but I do not think it will do much for the West | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
Country. It is not just HS2, we are investing elsewhere. | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
The question was this: According to Yale University research, what does | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
politics make you bad at? Relationships, maths, grandma or | :58:29. | :58:36. | |
sports? I will say sport.It is maths. Thank you both very much! All | :58:36. | :58:48. | |
three of you! That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. The one | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now. I will be here at midday | :58:51. | :58:57. | |
tomorrow. Goodbye. | :58:57. | :58:59. |