Browse content similar to 10/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Maria Miller's gone | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
but the stench of yet another expenses scandal still hangs around | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
Westminster. But who should govern the lawmakers? He was a thorn in | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
Labour's side and a strident critic of Thatcherism, can this man | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
galvanise the left in next month's European and local elections? All | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
the choice the free market can provide but are human beings a bit | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
rubbish at making the right choices? Not only are Cameron and Osborne two | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
posh boys who don't know the price of milk but they are two arrogant | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
posh boys. But do our political leaders really need to know the | :01:18. | :01:18. | |
price of basic foodstuffs? All that in the next hour. And with | :01:19. | :01:30. | |
us for the duration today is a man who should be good with numbers - | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
the FT's undercover economist and presenter of Radio 4's More or Less, | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
Tim Harford. Let's start with house prices. House sales have climbed to | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
their highest levels in six years, according to figures from the Royal | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
Institution of Chartered Surveyors. It has raised concerns that not | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
enough houses are coming on to the market to meet demand from buyers, | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
putting an upward pressure on prices. Let's talk to Simon | :01:57. | :02:04. | |
Rubinsohn, chief economist at the Royal Institution of Chartered | :02:05. | :02:13. | |
Surveyors. Is this largely a London and the South problem? Perhaps six | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
months ago it was a London and South problem. We are now seeing activity | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
picked up across the country. It is partly the signs of a recovery in | :02:27. | :02:27. | |
the You, me. -- in the wider economy. | :02:28. | :02:44. | |
Supply is not keeping pace. House prices have not returned to the peak | :02:45. | :02:52. | |
of 2008? In terms of pricing, London is very special. The recovery began | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
earlier and there are other elements to the recovery and demand in London | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
as well. In the North, the North West all the North East, and also in | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
most of Scotland, maybe excluding Edinburgh, house prices are still a | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
long way off the peak in 2008. What we are saying in the report today is | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
there are encouraging signs of activity picking up. People who had | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
not been able to move in many parts of the country because there had not | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
been supply of mortgage finance or the appetite to move, they now have | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
that opportunity. We are beginning to see that recovery kick in. | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
Outside London and a few centres, prices are still way below where | :03:38. | :03:45. | |
they were in 2007/. Let's put the Central London market to one side. | :03:46. | :03:58. | |
-- 2007/ /2008. Maybe you could throw in money laundering as well. I | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
would not say that although I probably just did! Everywhere else, | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
what is pushing up house prices? There is not enough supply. Demand | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
is recovering. It is not excessive all fuelled by debt in the way it | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
was in the last decade. There is not the supply. You girls is only just | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
beginning to recover. Existing home owners are reluctant to trade up in | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
a significant way so you are not seeing second-hand stock coming onto | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
the market. When I first got onto the property market, like many | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
people did in the mid-70s, duty was not much of a consideration. You had | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
to pay it but it was not a huge sum of money. Now it is a lot of money. | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
Is that it is an incentive? We have been arguing that reform of stamp | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
duty is urgently required. It seems bizarre to me we have a system where | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
it kicks in in full at certain levels. It is a slap structure, and | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
marginal rate structure. That is inconsistent with every other form | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
of tax. It is necessary and overdue and would help people at the bottom | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
end of the market, the first time buyers, who really are being | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
suddenly saddled with very huge tax bills. Thank you very much for | :05:27. | :05:36. | |
marking our card on that. We are in a situation where the politicians | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
know how to jack up demand but they have yet to show us they know how to | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
jack up the supply. You have put your finger on the problem. This is | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
what we need, more houses to be built. British houses are small by | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
European standards. They are old by European standards. If we built more | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
houses, obviously we are building some. If we build more houses, that | :06:00. | :06:08. | |
would tend to bring prices down and make them more affordable, which is | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
good in all kinds of ways. Housing construction is a great source of | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
jobs for skilled and semiskilled workers. I understand the politics | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
of it. It is difficult to point to any particular field in the country | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
and say, bring in the bulldozers, we are going to build houses. It also | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
has economic consequences. If you are living in the north and you own | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
your new house and you get offered a job in the south, you'd think, that | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
is a good job, more money, or interesting job. You sell your house | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
in the north and it would not give you enough money to buy a house in | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
the south. No, it would not. Stamp duty makes it expensive to buy and | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
sell houses. That is odd. I would see why you would have a tax on | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
owning an expensive house... Like a mansion tax? Or the council tax, if | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
it was rationally structured. This is a tax on buying and selling. It | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
is a disincentive to buy and sell houses and that will slow down | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
mobility. It will make people only move when they feel they have to. | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
That is not a great idea. The record of the Government on housing is not | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
stellar. Even that of the last Labour government was not that | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
great. Politicians know they have to provide more homes. They know that. | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
They want to do it as well on the left and the right. There seems to | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
be so many institutional blocks to doing so, whether it is planning | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
laws or the NIMBY -ism or the availability of getting land. It | :07:45. | :07:52. | |
would need very bold reformer indeed. You can see the vested | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
interests of house-builders. They are not keen to have planning | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
reforms because they know how it works. Older voters who we know are | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
very powerful as a voting bloc. They tended to own houses and they are | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
not keen to have houses built in their back gardens. A lot of vested | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
interests who do not want change. A lot of people who see themselves | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
getting onto the housing ladder do not fully appreciate what a | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
structural problem planning laws are. Thank you for that. Now it is | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
time for our daily quiz. The departure of Maria Miller yesterday | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
led to something of a reshuffle. Knowing that Tim here lives and | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
breathes minor changes to the Government front bench, we thought | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
we'd see if he's been paying attention. So which of these | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
ministers is the odd one out? Is it... A) Ken Clarke, b) Grant | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
Shapps, c) Nicky Morgan, or d) Sajid Javid? At the end of the show, Tim | :08:40. | :08:50. | |
will give us the correct answer. You will, when she? I will try. Maria | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
Miller's resignation has demonstrated once again that | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
allegations of financial impropriety are the hottest of the political hot | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
potatoes. MPs now face accusations of being too soft on their own and | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
there are calls to change the way politicians are censured. The rules | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
governing MPs' business costs and expenses are decided by IPSA, the | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, set up in 2009 in the | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
wake of the expenses scandal IPSA sets MPs' expenses limits and | :09:16. | :09:27. | |
authorises any claims. Complaints are investigated by IPSA's | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
Compliance Officer However, because Maria Miller's expense claims | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
pre-dated the creation of IPSA, they had to be investigated by the | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards They ensure MPs abide by | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
the Code of Conduct and recommend action. The Parliamentary | :09:38. | :09:45. | |
Commissioner for standards investigated her claims. It is his | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
job to look into whether MPs have stuck to the code of conduct and | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
recommend action if they have not. It's then up to the Commons | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
Standards Committee, made up of MPs and lay members, to decide what | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
sanction should be taken. However, not everyone is happy with this. | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
Former Parliamentary Commissioner Sir Ian Kennedy said MPs marking | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
their own homework always ends in scandal. According to some, the | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
solution is a right to recall, taking the decision away from | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
Parliament and giving it straight to the people. The fact is the real | :10:18. | :10:30. | |
answer to the scandal we had back in 2009/2010 is actually appeared in | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
the coalition agreement. I have been championing this for some time. The | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
right of voters in a constituency to demand a by-election. The coalition | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
accepted this. It was part of their agreement and they have done nothing | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
about it. That leaves people with the impression, people say things at | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
election time they do not really mean. Who would have thought that? | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
Politicians saying things at election time they do not mean. We | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
will come back to recall in a minute. Let's talk now to the | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
Director of the Hansard Society, Ruth Fox. I am right in thinking now | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
that the standards committee of MPs, which came to their final | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
judgment, some thought quite a soft one, Maria Miller, that won't going | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
forward have a role on MPs expenses, is that right? Ipsa will | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
make the decision to an independent compliance officer. They will have | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
legal recourse if they want to reclaim money from MPs and add | :11:36. | :11:44. | |
interest charges and costs. Ultimately, it can go to the High | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
Court if necessary. This committee will still have a say on other | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
disciplinary matters will stop to the extent of non-expenses | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
discipline, it could be argued that MPs will continue to mark their own | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
homework? That is certainly true. As you mentioned in respect of any new | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
cases that emerge from MPs related to expenses who were in the last | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
parliament which predates the creation of its. It is important to | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
remember that people have been saying, MPs marking their own | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
homework, the solution is independent regulation. On the | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
standards committee there are three independent members of the public. | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
That is the first time ever on a Parliamentary committee, who sit | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
with members of the House and make judgments on the conduct of MPs and | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
the punishments that should be meted out. The Maria Miller case is the | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
first big test of that. It is interesting that they appear to have | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
reached the same inclusions as the elected members on that committee | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
about her case. It would have been devastating for the politicians on | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
that committee if the three lay members had done a minority report. | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
They do not have a vote but they could, I think, have done a minority | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
report saying, we do not agree with the recommendations now would have | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
been devastating. They do not have a right to do but they do have an | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
ability to register their views. They can produce a minority report | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
and have it published. The committee cannot publish its own report until | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
those independent members have produced their report and they are | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
published together. They may not have a vote but they have immense | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
influence. It would be devastating for elected members if the | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
independent members publicly disagreed with them. They have yet | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
to flex their muscles on this matter. Final question, do you have | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
a view on this idea of right to recall? Going back to the comments, | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
I think it was Nigel Farage in your clips saying, it was in the | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
coalition agreement. This is one of the big problems. They see | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
politicians make promises and then not deliver. It feeds the idea that | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
no matter what party is in charge, it does not make that much | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
difference. Recall is one of those measures that the public recognise | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
as a reform which could help in terms of accountability between | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
general elections. At the moment they do not feel there is any | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
accountability between elections and this is a measure which could assist | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
with that. Let's stick with this issue. With us now is the | :14:24. | :14:25. | |
Conservative MP, Zac Goldsmith, and the former adviser to Tony Blair, | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
John McTernan. Welcome to you both. You and I have talked several times | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
on this programme about the right to recall. I know you are in favour of | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
it. Why are you against it, John? Yellow mapper I do not think anyone | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
is going unpunished in the current system. -- I do not think. I do not | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
see what problem is being addressed by the recall. Maria Miller has not | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
lost her seat? There has not been an election. Neal Hamilton was | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
challenged and knocked off. The system regulates itself. Voters get | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
rid of MPs who do not want and the parties get rid of the people they | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
do not want in positions. What do you say to that? If there is a | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
scandal early in parliament, there is a five-year period where people | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
are represented by someone in whom they have no confidence. Three mat | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
time, the decisions might be made. -- during that time. In a rock-solid | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
Tory seat, nearly way of getting rid of the candidate is by involving | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
improper democracy. They need a candidate in whom they have | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
confidence. That is not all is possible. I think, and I speak as an | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
MP, I know there has been no mechanism at all whereby my | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
constituents have been able to hold me to account since I was elected in | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
2010. I might get booted out in 2015 that those five years matter. I | :16:00. | :16:10. | |
don't think the recall proposition helps. Say you have an MP who | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
supports HS2, in a constituency where 10% of the population get | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
together and have a by-election attacking them for that, it is a | :16:21. | :16:29. | |
license for NIMBYs. It is a licence for the voice of the people. They | :16:30. | :16:38. | |
came up with an arcane thing, tempers trigger, which also said you | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
got have a recall by the -- recall ballot. 20% trigger is better but if | :16:46. | :16:55. | |
I had money behind me I could generate the money and a campaign to | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
get 20% of the people, particularly with the government proposition | :17:00. | :17:01. | |
where automatically people with postal votes get sent petition form | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
to sign on time. It is a very easy system to gain. You elect MPs for | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
the term of the parliament, you have good ones and bad ones, I don't | :17:17. | :17:25. | |
think interfering solves a problem that is so gigantic you should put | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
anarchy at the heart of it. There is no evidence anywhere in the world | :17:32. | :17:33. | |
where recall happens and it happens all over the world, of anarchy | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
arising. The existence of recall keeps MPs on their toes, they behave | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
better. It isn't borne out by experience. Even so we have 650 MPs, | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
take which would park, it would be absurd for Richmond Park to be | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
represented by somebody in favour of Heathrow expansion, it is the most | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
unpopular concept is doing the rounds today in my patch. If I were | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
to change my views on Heathrow I suspect people would have the right | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
to recall me. I would no longer be representing their views. If you | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
believe in democracy you have to believe representatives speak for | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
the people who have elected them. HS2 is another example. If it were | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
the case that two or three MPs were booted out for supporting the | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
project that was unpopular in their constituency it wouldn't have an | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
impact on national policy but I maintain and a recall on this, a | :18:27. | :18:34. | |
representative being recalled because of unpopular decision. | :18:35. | :18:41. | |
Across the United States in the mayoral system in the States, what | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
elites do is paralysis, recall is used all the threat of recall create | :18:46. | :18:47. | |
administrative or political paralysis. The best example is | :18:48. | :18:58. | |
California weather was a recall ballot -- where there was a recall | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
ballot. Energy prices had the government in California had got | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
into a total mess over energy prices. The people were furious. | :19:09. | :19:18. | |
There will books written about Ray Davies and why he was a useless | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
governor. Every single governor has faced we call Dash has faced a | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
recall attempt. It is very rarely deployed, it is about Loccoz voters | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
must have one thing is very badly wrong. The initiation of it is a | :19:33. | :19:44. | |
distraction. Come back to the point you have said, if you changed your | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
mind on Heathrow, you should be recalled. The discipline is there | :19:48. | :19:59. | |
already, you do in your constituents your judgement, you are not a | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
delegate. You are meant to go there and be a transmission belt for their | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
opinions. You are Zac Goldsmith, MP for Richmond Park. If I were to do | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
the dramatic U-turn on Heathrow expansion I would have misled people | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
before the election. Why should Conservative voters in Richmond Park | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
and North can still have to vote for a Lib Dem candidate because they | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
don't like their Tory candidate, why should they vote for an entire suite | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
of policies because they don't like... Where are you on this? It is | :20:34. | :20:43. | |
a daft idea. It is the fiction that all voters in a constituency are | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
happy with their MP anyway, many people voted for other parties | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
become dissatisfied. Even if you have constant because you couldn't | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
keep everybody happy. There is accountability, Maria Miller lost a | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
well paying job, she had a reputation damaged and she will face | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
the electorate next spring. I don't see the problem with British | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
politics is it is not short term is enough or populist enough, that is | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
what we call would bring. There is a different dynamic when the election | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
brings, people vote for the party because they want their party to | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
form the man pulled up Maria Miller could well hold on to let it come | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
the election not because people are Basingstoke are happy with her, but | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
because enough of them want a Tory government they will vote for the | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
Tory whoever it is. He said the system works, but for a lot of | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
people watching this programme and for a lot of people getting in | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
touch, they don't think it has it all. They think shouldn't pay back | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
the money she was meant to, they think she continues as an MP with a | :21:41. | :21:48. | |
good salary, and she even gets redundancy money from being a | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
Cabinet Minister. In 2001 came within 880 votes being a Labour | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
seat. There is an anti-Tory majority if it wishes to mobilise it. In 2001 | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
the Labour Party under Mr Blair had huge appeal to the south. You were | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
part of that, that is not quite true today. But your points come to the | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
same thing, the Tory party are proposing a member of the party, | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
Maria Miller in this case, who you think Basingstoke might not want. | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
That is a matter for party reform, for compulsory pre-selections by | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
primary is, every time you put somebody up, it is allowing the | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
public to choose for top if you concern is the party is going to put | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
somebody up, if Maria Miller is toxic to the voters, a candidate | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
would be found who would throw her out, the public would throw her out. | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
My concern is the five years in between elections. I don't think it | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
is possible to exaggerate this disconnect between people and power, | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
I feel this is an MP every single day, when we look at but after this | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
programme, there is an overwhelming hatred geared towards politicians, a | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
sense politics has become so remote that people no longer have any | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
impact, they cannot hold MPs to account. What recall we do is it | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
would give people a sense of empowerment. Why not have | :23:18. | :23:26. | |
high-frequency general elections? If an MP loses an annual contest voters | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
need to be able to keep them on their toes at this is the only | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
mechanism I can think of that would act public key people on the days | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
between elections from day one until the last day. Challenger again, | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
there is not a single example of a successful recall campaign anywhere | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
in the world, Canada, Croatia, parts of South America, Switzerland, South | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
Korea, there is not one example, any constitutional expert has been able | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
to provide, of an unfair, successful campaign. The fear of the mob is a | :23:57. | :24:05. | |
fear of democracy. I will be vexatious and call this to an end. | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
I will have to give this year 's London Marathon a mess, not least | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
because I have got to be done the Sunday Politics for an hour after it | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
finishes. It is the perfect view of winding down after 26 mile one, so I | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
highly recommend it. We have got a big debate coming the Sunday on the | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
European elections. Some brave MPs are taking part in one of the world | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
's most watched marathons. Alex Forsyth is on College Green with two | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
of them. I would love to be there on Sunday pounding the pavements, | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
taking part in the London Marathon, but unfortunately I am just too | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
busy. A number of MPs are just taking part, we think it is a record | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
number this year, a total of nine have decided to take on the | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
challenge and we have grabbed two of them here with us today, in their | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
full running regalia. Peggy throw much for being with us. I am not a | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
runner, the idea of running 26 miles feels we with horror and dread, what | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
on earth possesses you? It is a long way, I'm doing it to raise money for | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
Cancer research UK, most people 's lives are touched by cancer at some | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
point, my certainly has been. Every two minutes summary is diagnosed and | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
each week 2800 people 's lives are saved by amazing research. They are | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
a fantastic charity doing amazing work and I am really proud, via my | :25:31. | :25:40. | |
site, 20 raise as much money for stop my father is 70 this year, we | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
are going to run it together. Here's a veteran marathon runner so I am | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
hoping he will drag me round because I haven't done a huge amount of | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
training. I hear you are one of the more MPs. And certainly competitive | :25:52. | :25:59. | |
in terms of how much money I want to raise for Marek Yuri Dash Dash Marie | :26:00. | :26:19. | |
Curie. His arms like you know your timings. -- it sounds like. We have | :26:20. | :26:29. | |
made these classy heads on state and I want you to guess the personal | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
best. You have referenced him, let's start with this one, what is his | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
personal best time, Jim Murphy? It was three point 31. 3.31. On the | :26:39. | :26:50. | |
money, good effort. The infamous Ed Balls running for the third year. Do | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
we know what stunning time he has made. It is over five hours. 5.14. | :26:56. | :27:11. | |
Desk each others? Mine is 3.394. What about down? I bet it is to | :27:12. | :27:23. | |
something. 3.12 is my personal best. Good effort. There is obviously a | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
light-hearted side, but it is serious as well, a lot of people are | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
encouraged, are you encouraged by the number of MPs running? It | :27:34. | :27:43. | |
running for a national and local charity, and in London it is a great | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
thing to do, quite an unhealthy lifestyle, makes sure we get out in | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
the evening or morning to one, brings a bit of discipline back to | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
life. Are you looking forward to it? Nervous? It is a global sporting | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
event, people come from around the world. Great to be a part of it in | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
some small way. Well done to you both, good luck for Sunday. I'm not | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
convinced yet but I will be certainly watching. | :28:10. | :28:18. | |
Two weeks ago we spoke to a representative of Left Unity. We | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
speak to Dave Nellist, the national chair of the trade unionists and | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
socialist coalition, known as task. You may remember him as a form | :28:31. | :28:42. | |
unable MP -- former Labour MP. Labour magpies National Executive | :28:43. | :28:44. | |
has suspended the entire constituency party of garbage is | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
East because it is continuing to support the MP Dave Nellist. He was | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
expelled over a week ago for alleged links with militants. I am not a | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
member of the militants, I am no longer a member of the Labour Party. | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
I am still a socialist. I shall go back to the people who are selected | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
my first, supported me, and ask them. The militant standing | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
candidates against the Labour Party. They have a cheek, anybody, to think | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
they can remain in our party. They have no honour. Get rid of me, | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
tragically they did, does not help Labour's chances in the general | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
election one iota. And here in the studio is Dave Nellist. Is it true | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
that someone had a sense of humour in the whips office and put to him | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
at a young MP called Tony Blair? It was only four weeks before he went | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
off and got an office with Gordon Brown. If you want to hold me | :29:52. | :30:02. | |
responsible for the creation of new Labour, I hold up my hands. We saw | :30:03. | :30:12. | |
that you got expelled from the Labour Party because they thought | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
you were too supportive, to close off militant tendency. In 1990, the | :30:18. | :30:25. | |
poll tax battle were occurring. I was next on the list to go to | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
prison. Neil Kinnock thought he would win votes by expelling hard | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
left wingers who were prepared to go to prison over the poll tax. Two | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
years later, he spent two years attacking the left, and he lost the | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
elections in 1992. The strategy did not work. You have been outside the | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
Labour Party ever since. It is tough being on the left if you are not | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
inside the Labour Party, is it not? Not now. I do not see major | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
differences. You had a guest here a few weeks ago he described the | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
difference between Ed Balls and George Osborne about 3%. That is | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
what most people think about the big parties. There are two divisions in | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
politics, Labour, Liberal Democrat, the Tories, UKIP. There is a Second | :31:17. | :31:26. | |
Division and TUSC, of which I am a member, let's deal with them, it is | :31:27. | :31:34. | |
the sixth largest party in the country. It is the only one with | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
absolute policy against austerity and the effects on local people | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
services. Why does the breakthrough of the left, and I do not mean in | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
the sense of winning a majority, but a breakthrough in making progress, | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
why does it not happen? I am thinking particularly, there was | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
what might be regarded on the left in 2008 is a crisis of capitalism. | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
We are still trying to recover from there. It did not result, not just | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
in this country that actually across the western world, it did not result | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
in a breakthrough for the left. The lack of PR in this country is more | :32:12. | :32:21. | |
difficult. We have left Socialist party members. The other major | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
factor is the biggest trade unions are imprisoned within the Labour | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
Party. The unions were working -- we are working with were smaller, | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
unaffiliated year and -- unions. We had the last general secretary in | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
the current assistant general secretary. We had the smaller, | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
unaffiliated unions. They do not yet have the social weight of the bigger | :32:51. | :32:59. | |
unions. It was not a foregone conclusion mac Unite would always | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
put its money into the Labour Party. It is an argument I have had. I have | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
been a member for 40 years. We have got 120 members standing at | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
candidate in this election. Conveners, shop stewards, active | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
union members. The debate that is going on in the big unions is going | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
in our direction. There is a problem on the left. There are so many | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
different groups. You are a member of the Socialist party of England | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
and Wales. Someone told me that goes by the acronym SPEW. Is that right? | :33:34. | :33:46. | |
Not by its members. I'd have you up also a member of TUSC. You will be a | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
candidate for the no to EU party. You are going to need a big front | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
window to get all these different posters. The Socialist party is not | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
standing in the elections. We are part of the TUSC coalition. We may | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
be small but the RMT has 80,000 members. I repeat, we are a major | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
minor party, we are the Second Division. We are the biggest | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
challenge to the left of Labour for 60 years. No one has had 600 | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
candidates for the left of Labour since the early 1950s. What would be | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
a good result? If we meet the day after the local election, when the | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
results have come in, what would you consider to be a good result? It is | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
visibility and viability. This is the second interview I have done in | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
four years. The first one was with you for years ago. Nobody else on | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
BBC TV has looked at the politics outside the big parties, except | :34:50. | :35:05. | |
UKIP. That is one of our big things. There are 160 towns, cities and | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
boroughs in this country with polls on May the 2nd. At least half the | :35:10. | :35:17. | |
country will hear a little bit of an anti-austerities message. If people | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
watching this programme today, they have lost the care of the elderly in | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
their community will stop they are saying, does it matter whether it is | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
Labour, Tory or Liberal Democrats making that decision? Our tests, if | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
you like, between now and May the 22nd, is to increase visibility and | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
give hope to people. What would you regard as a good result the next | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
day? We are defending one or two seats. We're not going to say we | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
will win dozens. Labour itself, in its early years 100 years ago, with | :35:54. | :36:01. | |
the hard march. Even UKIP with its first five Parliamentary elections | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
averaged 1.7% of the Parliamentary vote. It would be easy with a | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
differences them. We are where we are. We have the biggest challenge | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
for the left in 60 years. We will give people hope. Do you think that | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
the left has an opportunity to breakthrough or has that opportunity | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
posted that donate, has it already gone? It appears to have gone. -- | :36:26. | :36:36. | |
post 2008. I agree that the first past the post system makes it very | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
difficult for small parties to breakthrough. I was curious, do you | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
think the country would be better governed if we had maybe eight or | :36:46. | :36:55. | |
ten significant small parties, the Green Party and others putting | :36:56. | :37:03. | |
together coalitions? At the moment, there is an overlapping agenda on | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
posterity. The argument is that used to take place within those parties | :37:08. | :37:17. | |
were first marginalised. They are not given the prominence they should | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
be given. If different arguments could come forward, you had a | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
conversation about recall of MPs. They have got that in America. You | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
have to have different parties to make real differences. We do not yet | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
have that in this country. That is why we are standing to create the | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
conditions in which a new Workers' Party can grow. Thank you for being | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
with us. Now we are going to talk about tough choices. You've already | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
made one. You could be watching Bargain Hunt on BBC One, or a repeat | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
of the House of Elliot on ITV3 but you've opted to watch the Daily | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
Politics instead. Politicians like to bandy the word around when it | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
comes to public services but are us human beings actually any good at | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
making decisions? Adam's been to his local Tesco to investigate. | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
Choose chopped tomatoes, choose chilli sauce, choose from a lot of | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
olive oils. To understand why we're actually a bit rubbish at choosing, | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
head for the aisle labelled spreads and preserves. In a famous | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
experiment in California, shoppers were offered a choice of six kinds | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
of jam or 24 kinds of jam. The people offered less choice bought | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
more jam, which gave rise to the conclusion that people get freaked | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
out if they are offered too much choice. Is that why 60% of | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
households have never switched energy companies? As a result, the | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
regulators have cut the number of tariffs dramatically. Is that why we | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
waste an estimated ?5 billion a year by being on the wrong type of mobile | :38:51. | :38:58. | |
contract? What about choice in say the health service? Under the choose | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
and book system, you can pick the hospital where you will be treated | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
as an outpatient. Fellow shopper David Boyle is an expert. He has | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
studied choice in schools, hospitals and social care for the Government. | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
How do the public choose their service? By picking the nearest one. | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
It's important to them that their relative should be able to visit | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
them in hospital regularly, they're not going to be miles and miles | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
away. For schools, for instance, they need to get there in the | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
morning. If they do not have proper transport, the choice is much | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
narrower. He found that a majority of people like the idea of choosing | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
their public service but they seem just as happy if they did not get a | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
choice at all. This Harley Street cardiologist reckons it is because | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
there are some areas of life where we don't want to make our own | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
decisions. When we are ill and vulnerable, it is not the same as | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
choosing a pasta or an olive oil. It is life and death, it is important. | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
People want to be able to put their trust into a health care | :40:01. | :40:02. | |
professional with their interests at heart. I think you need this and | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
here is why. It turns out there are many theories about decision-making | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
as there are pasta sauces on the shelf. We tend to be overly | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
optimistic, we suffer from inertia. We can only process seven pieces of | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
information at once. Far too many theories for me to bother picking | :40:22. | :40:31. | |
which one is the right one. And Tim Harford is still with us. People | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
like by and large supermarket choice. But do they really want | :40:39. | :40:45. | |
choice? Can they make the same kind of choices in the public services? | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
It is worth distinguishing different reasons my Wii like choice. -- why | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
we like choice. I will not make a choice on your behalf because I | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
respect you as an autonomous being. People like to be trusted to make | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
their own choices and asked their views. Different people want | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
different things. I want a different kind of pasta sauce and they might | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
want a different birthing experience. The third reason is, | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
even if you do not really care exactly what you get, you care about | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
quality, offering people a choice might be a good stick to beat Severs | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
revivals with and raise overall standards. I do not care whether I | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
buy milk from Sainsbury's or Tesco but the fact I have a choice | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
hopefully raises quality and raises service and lowers prices. This | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
whole debate about choice is, we are very muddled about what we think it | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
is actually supposed to achieve. My son is two years old. He sees me | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
cooking in the kitchen. He has a little plastic cookery set. He | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
copies me. He said he is making soup or whatever or mashed potato. I feel | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
the choice agenda in public services is like that. You see the market, | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
people see the market and say, people make choices on the market | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
and that works pretty well. Things like choosing a book in the national | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
health -- choose and book in the National Health Service, it does not | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
really have the same content in the market. Hospitals are not going to | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
go bankrupt because no one wants to go there. We're not comfortable with | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
that idea in British services. People often say when it is a public | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
service, I do not want choice, I just want the school at the end of | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
My Road to be a good school. But the problem with saying that is, if the | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
school at the end of the road is the only one you have a choice to go to, | :42:44. | :42:51. | |
that may be the reason why, because it is a monopoly, it may not be a | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
good school. Absolutely. If schools were subject to competitive | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
pressures, schools would go bankrupt and be shut down. No one would want | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
to go there. Other schools would start-up. When you phrase it like | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
that, which is how the private sector in schooling works in this | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
country, people start to feel uncomfortable. Pro-market people | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
like me think that maybe there is a way that might be made to work. Most | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
people do not like the idea and are not comfortable with the idea. Until | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
you have that, the choice is really a bit of a Sherard. Most people do | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
not have a choice of school they are happy with. There are things people | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
who believe in choice to not talk about. It depends, to some extent, | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
on overcapacity in the system. If the system is fully use, there is no | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
choice. We see that in supermarkets with all the food that is thrown | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
away. That is a more difficult thing in the public sector where there are | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
scarce resources. It is unacceptable for a hospital to shut down. That, | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
fundamentally, is what the market mechanism is. If it is no good, it | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
closes. People do not seem comfortable with that. There is a | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
question of information. Do people have information they need? In some | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
cases, yes, people do have a sense of what a good school is and whether | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
it fits their preferences. The cardiologist we heard from has a | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
point. If I am having a heart attack, I want that seem to and I | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
have no strong opinions about cardiologists. The other thing about | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
choice that is not discussed or may be put under the carpet a bit, if | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
choice is the important factor, in most things by definition, the | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
better off you are, the more choices you have. That is the way the world | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
works. We accept that in most cases. We get very queasy when it comes to | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
health care. Or education. If we really saw a serious push for | :45:00. | :45:08. | |
choice, there would be a hospital choice magazine or a trip advisor | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
for schools. I do not think we are bare and I do not think we will get | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
there. It is not with easy to imagine what really privatised, | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
market-driven public services sector would look like. | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
Are you a savvy shopper, it do you know the price of milk or bread? | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
Knowing the price of house-call goods has been seen as a touch of | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
how knowledgeable politicians are. Let's have a look at some senior | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
politician strain to answer how much you would spend on milk or bread in | :45:45. | :45:52. | |
one of their critics. What is the cost of a sliced white loaf? You can | :45:53. | :46:04. | |
get one for a pound. The value of his 47p. I try to get my children to | :46:05. | :46:14. | |
eat the sort of granary. Do you know how much you pay for it? No, because | :46:15. | :46:22. | |
my wife buys most of it. I do check where it comes from. 80p. No, it is | :46:23. | :46:37. | |
40p. One of the big ones. Not only are they too posh boys who don't | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
know the price of milk, they are arrogant posh boys who showed no | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
remorse, contrition, no passion to want to understand the lives of | :46:45. | :46:54. | |
others. We are joined by leading Tories who | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
you just saw. Her first novel is loosely based on her own experiences | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
groaning map in Liverpool -- growing up in Liverpool. What is the price | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
of not? If you go into a named supermarket, Tesco or Asda, you can | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
get a full pint container for 90p. It's not so much the people of | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
politicians know exact what the price of milk is in its own right, | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
is it not a shorthand for people just wondering whether they are in | :47:24. | :47:33. | |
touch or not? Bug is not expensive. The last time I looked was when 19 | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
raise this issue, and then I looked at the Marks Spencer is in the | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
local railway station, Tesco, Sainsbury's, it was 49p in all of | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
them. There is no benefit to knowing because the price was the same, I | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
was about right and I am no way qualified to run the country and I | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
should not be let anywhere near the reins of power even though I do know | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
the price of a pint of not and it wasn't very much. That is five | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
minutes work, at the minimum wage for top we are labouring the milk | :48:06. | :48:15. | |
aspect. This point is you often hear politicians say, I set myself, I was | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
brought up by council estate. That doesn't mean anything. Neither just | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
knowing the price of milk. What I have tried to convey is the | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
emotional responses that people feel who grow up in a background which is | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
deprived, which is defined by poverty. And what that makes them | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
into, the kind of people in two, in a political arena you need to | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
understand that. The majority of people actually have a tough life, | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
the majority of people struggle, the majority of people do not go to | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
public schools. Doesn't matter politicians don't know the price of | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
some basic foodstuffs people have to buy? It is probably on a scale of | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
one to 20, number one, in what you have to do to understand the lives | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
of others, to know what goes into a basic family shopping basket, and | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
how much that costs, and what a family 's budget is a step number | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
two. What the percentage of that budget is to go and do the stuff. | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
People do the test, taking people to go and live on a council estate. The | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
one I went to was much better than the one I was brought up on, but | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
they will take them and it is something they give away. That | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
doesn't actually feed into the emotional responses, the hurt and | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
the anger and the upset people feel when they think politicians are out | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
of touch with how they live their daily lives. What you say to the | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
proposition that it is important politicians, particularly those who | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
run the country, that economic policy, determine tax, and the | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
public sector wage levels, they should know what the cost of a | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
basket of basic provisions from the supermarket is. That doesn't mean | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
anything until they know what the average wages. They probably do know | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
that already. My colleague at the BBC, they used to test civil | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
servants on this and they had no idea. Civil servants aren't | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
elected. Elected politicians have an absolute responsibility to know what | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
goes into the average family house in terms of income, the average | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
wages, amateur costs to fill up the car, because until they do that they | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
will not understand how people feel about the policies that they make | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
which affect people 's lives. What is frustrating is it is a very easy | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
criticism to make of a Prime Minister, that he she is out of | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
touch. Because of course all prime ministers by definition lead lives | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
that are very different to ordinary people. I fully agree it would be | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
great if we have our diversity in politics, more diversity of | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
background, it is just a very easy cheap shot to save the current | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
incumbent in the ten Downing St doesn't live a life like ordinary | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
people, because of course they don't. That is not the fundamental | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
qualification to run the country, I know a lot of people have tough | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
lives, they know exactly how much a basket or trolley costs, who I do | :51:22. | :51:31. | |
not want running the country. One thing I would say as a result of my | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
comment is David Cameron proper leaders now know how much the | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
average basket of food costs. Apparently he is good to read my | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
book over the Easter holidays. You stick by that comment Mr Cameron and | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
Mr Osborne too posh boys who don't know the price of milk. I regret the | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
use of the web posh and I don't have any issues with eating or public | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
school, I saw my daughters to public school. I thought the fact they were | :51:58. | :52:05. | |
posh was why they didn't know the price of milk. Did a user would | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
arrogant? I do regret the use of the word posh. Zac Goldsmith is apparent | :52:11. | :52:19. | |
bash fantastic MP, Boris Johnson, excellent MP. They both went to | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
Eton. I have no issues with eating or posh schools. What about | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
arrogant? I have issues with anybody who is arrogant, Andrew. You called | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
them arrogant. I think probably they may have been but I doubt either of | :52:35. | :52:43. | |
them are now. There is one fewer woman in the Cabinet as a result of | :52:44. | :52:51. | |
Maria Miller and Mr Cameron had the opportunity to appoint another woman | :52:52. | :52:53. | |
to replace that he didn't, it is a problem. I think women in the | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
Cabinet and around the table and in politics is an absolute obsession | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
with Westminster journalists and politicians. I doubt anybody, any of | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
my constituents, actually care, or they are interested is the right | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
person is doing the job. However, having said that, we do have a | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
Cabinet and parliament which reflects the country. We are working | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
towards that. What I want is the best people around the Cabinet, | :53:22. | :53:23. | |
particularly at the moment, running the country. That is what I want to | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
see. With only three in the Cabinet we have the best people. Even in | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
Labour's cabinets, the only people who sat around the table were | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
childless or wealthy. And that is another problem. We do have women | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
who come around the table who may not be representative of the women | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
out there because to be an MP in the first place and to be a woman MP and | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
a mother and stay on the Cabinet is a difficult job unless you have a | :53:51. | :53:51. | |
lot of money you don't have children . | :53:52. | :53:59. | |
Now for a culture fix for top handbag is a play described as | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
wickedly funny and transfers to the vaudeville Theatre in London's West | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
End today for top looks at the relationship between Margaret | :54:07. | :54:08. | |
Thatcher and the Queen. Imagining what went on in the meetings behind | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
the palace's closed doors. For actresses play both older and | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
younger versions of the formidable female duo. He was a short clip of | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
the play to whet your appetite. I can remember an odd sense of | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
loneliness when I received the call which summoned me to the palace. The | :54:26. | :54:36. | |
Queen receives the authority to form a government. When one is re-elected | :54:37. | :54:38. | |
one doesn't go, so that first meeting is unique. She was my | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
eighth. Winston, said Anthony, Sir Alec. Dear Harold W. Heath. And Jim | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
Callaghan. He bade me farewell that morning. It is affecting when they | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
go. One doesn't have time to turn around. How goes the last and in | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
comes the next with barely a pause. One has often built up a | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
relationship. We are joined by Stella Gonet. What | :55:06. | :55:23. | |
research did you do to get into the role? Research. It is hardly | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
difficult, there is so much, the rather silly videos, books will stop | :55:31. | :55:32. | |
and other relationship between the two, quite a lot on that? I suppose | :55:33. | :55:42. | |
a lot of this is fun conjecture. It is a comedy. It is really good fun. | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
They didn't get on, though, did they? Who are we to say? She | :55:49. | :55:57. | |
mentioned the Queen very little. That is interesting. It is | :55:58. | :56:05. | |
interesting to put two people together. To be forced to have | :56:06. | :56:07. | |
weekly meetings for that many years, for two people who came from | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
such different backgrounds, different worldviews, different | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
interests, it will be a little awkward. Time magazine said this | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
play would be loved by liberal royalists. What does that mean? I | :56:21. | :56:28. | |
think Moira has got the balance right. It is a play that can be | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
loved by both sides of the House, essentially for top of a slow we | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
want both sides of the House to come along. It has got a lot to appeal to | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
both sides. In playing this part, have you | :56:40. | :56:46. | |
changed your views on Margaret Thatcher, you feel you know her | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
better now, what have you learnt by playing her? Undoubtedly know her | :56:51. | :56:59. | |
better. No more about what made... I feel sorry for her, is what I feel. | :57:00. | :57:10. | |
Ultimately. In the film that came out, she did seem very sad and | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
lonely. We're not talking about Streep's performance. All she had | :57:17. | :57:23. | |
also politics so when that went she had nothing, where is the Queen has | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
many passions, that is what keeps you going. Do you do the famous | :57:28. | :57:37. | |
Sunday Times story? We do, indeed. That was mine. You have something to | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
do with that, didn't you? She told me to a 9-point offer in the poles. | :57:43. | :57:50. | |
-- it took nine points off her in the poles. It is running at | :57:51. | :57:57. | |
affordable theatre, press night tonight, runs until the 3rd of | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
August. Let's hope, if we get the audiences. People seem to be | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
massively enjoying it in the previews. I want to come. Please do. | :58:07. | :58:13. | |
It sounds fantastic. Just time to find the answer to the quiz. Which | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
of these ministers is the odd one out following yesterday 's | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
reshuffle? Ken Clarke Grant Shapps, Nicky Morgan or Sajid Javid? Sajid | :58:22. | :58:29. | |
Javid, he was the first Asian in Cabinet. He's the only one entitled | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
to attend the Cabinet in his own right, the other three getting only | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
because they are invited. Thanks to our guests. I will be back tonight | :58:40. | :58:55. | |
for This Week. And back here at noon as well. Goodbye. | :58:56. | :58:57. |