Browse content similar to 16/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's set to be one of the hottest days of the year. | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
But the temperature ahead of next week's European and local election | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
Most MPs are off on the campaign trail. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
But back here at Westminster, one senior MP tells us he's fed up | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
of waiting for the Iraq War inquiry, now four years overdue. | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
The Police Federation is also getting it in the neck over claims | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
How much damage have they done to the reputation of the Old Bill? | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
It's the live TV debate that electrified Europe. | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
The main candidates to be European Commission President have been | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
And, speaking of voters, just how much does anyone really | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
And with us for the duration, two top political columnists. | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
Sue Cameron from the Telegraph and Zoe Williams from the Guardian. | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
Sue specialises in writing about the civil service. | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Zoe also gets to review restaurants for one of the Sunday magazines. | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
I'll leave you to decide whose job is more fun. | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
Let's start with the Police Federation. | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
That's the group that represents rank and file police officers | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
It's the subject of a scathing select committee | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
report this morning, with the Home Affairs committee saying it's | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
accused of levels of bullying to rival any popular soap opera. | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
And urgently needs reform, including full disclosure of its finances. | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
MPs also criticised the role of the Police Federation in the Plebgate | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
affair which led to the resignation of chief whip Andrew Mitchell. | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
Here's committee chairman Keith Vaz speaking earlier. | :02:19. | :02:28. | |
This is a big opportunity at Bournemouth for the federation to | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
move on if they change the way in which they have been doing their | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
business. We want an end to the bullying that we were shocked to | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
hear was happening at national headquarters. We want full | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
transparency. Every police officer in England and Wales to get a rebate | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
for their subscriptions and we want this to be what it should be. The | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
representatives of the finest police force in the world. | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
We asked to speak to the Police Federation this morning | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
He was giving PR advice to local police federations at the time | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
He's been singled out by the select committee. | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
It said he cynically tried to exploit the allegations | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
against Andrew Mitchell to publicise the Police Federation's campaign | :03:16. | :03:17. | |
And the MPs said "the consequence was a lowering of | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
Welcome back. You are paid by the Police Federation to advise three | :03:22. | :03:34. | |
officers now under investigation for stitching up a Cabinet Minister. Did | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
you know, did you encourage them to be economical with the truth? No, I | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
wasn't paid to advise them to stitch of a Cabinet minister. I was paid by | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
Police Federation in the Midlands and across the country as well as | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
being paid by the National Federation. Coming to the Midlands, | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
they'd already planned them are going to have a campaign during the | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Tory conference full for the Andrew Mitchell things fell into their lap. | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
I gave the media training and got involved in that as well. When it | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
comes to the meeting you are referring to, you must remember, of | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
course, all three of them are now having a review about whether they | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
can reopen the case, but no, I didn't advise them to stitch up | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
Andrew Mitchell. Andrew Mitchell wasn't the target for the digital | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
they were providing misleading evidence? No, I wasn't in the | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
meeting. No, but you practice for it. Personally, I was amazed Andrew | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
Mitchell accepted invitation. I was asking about the evidence to the | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
Home Affairs Select Committee. No, I was no longer working for them. You | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
prepped them for the Andrew Mitchell meeting? What do do for your money? | :04:43. | :04:51. | |
Lots, caps on the front page of newspapers for four weeks. Now | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
coming back to haunt you. The reputation the Police Federation... | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
Do you want me to answer the question? The reputation of the | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
police has never been poorer. The reason is because it's due to one | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
police officer who lied. The reason is because it's due to one police | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
officer who lied. He was there when he wasn't. I have never represented | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
that police officer or the Metropolitan Police for that if I | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
had done, I would've told him not to do it. He brought into disrepute and | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
the leadership of the Police nationally, who were completely | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
rudderless during this campaign, but going back to what I did, we kept on | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
the front pages of newspapers for four weeks. I have absolutely no | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
regrets about it. The target was not Andrew Mitchell. We were not trying | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
to get rid of him. It was a political campaign and I think | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
you'll find police officers in this country, unlike Ukraine, have | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
exactly the same rights to free speech and expression as any other | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
individual. They cannot strike, take industrial action, but they can | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
protest and have their say if they feel these cuts were unjust and | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
that's what my clients felt and my job was there to get it in the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
papers which I did successfully. The fact their reputation is in the dirt | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
is all down to one person? Don't a three who gave misleading evidence | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
to the home select committee? I'm glad you are so confident you think | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
it's misleading information. I wasn't in the meeting, Andrew. The | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
chair of the committee says it is now clear... If there is the same | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
man who walked out of my evidence 50 minute into Keith Vaz? Have you | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
watched the video? No. I will be happy to. I did ask your research is | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
to ask you to watch it last night because 50 minute injured, Keith Vaz | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
leaves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, never mind that. I'm asking you about the Home | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
Affairs Select Committee. I'm talking about it. The chairman said | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
it clear they missed that the committee, possibly deliberately, | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
and if they don't come back and corrected, they will be in contempt | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
of Parliament. You're saying it's all down to one man? If you let me | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
answer the question, I think the Police Federation is the methods are | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
now bigger of one police officer who and because it was legal and the | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
present chairman, Mr Williams, invited me to work on it. The Home | :07:23. | :07:31. | |
Affairs Select Committee, I don't know for the those officers went | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
back and apologised. You now know the IPCC want to investigate them | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
again. It's no subject to judicial review. We have to wait and see. I | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
didn't brief them to go before the committee or had anything to do with | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
it. The entire episode of the Federation no credit at all. It must | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
think more carefully in the future mother nature of its public | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
campaigning. We do not think this contract, the one I had with you, | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
was appropriate, and don't think the work of the brothers Gaunt helped | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
the police board the consequence was a lowering of the reputation for | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
that. I can answer that, if Keith Vaz had listened to my evidence plea | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
didn't, there was a conclusion at the end. The deputy chair said we | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
have consulted on this. There was no time for consultation. They've | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
clearly made their minds before I went in there. The report was | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
clearly written before I gave my evidence but I will go back, the | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
lowering of the Police Federation is down to the officer who lied not | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
what we did. Keith Vaz and his committee have a perfect right to | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
say they think my campaign wasn't very good but the timing of this | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
report is very interesting. On the eve of the conference, this is a | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
political move by the political establishment to cower the Police | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
Federation. The leadership by the way, is rolling over and let them do | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
it. How much did they pay you? It's all on the record if you want to go | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
back to it, the interview you haven't watched. All the evidence is | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
there, Andrew. I'm not going to go into it again. I'm asking you. You | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
haven't done your research. The ?15,000 a month with other national | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
contract. Individual contract... So you were on it? My company was, yes. | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
Do you think they will ask for their money back given the reputation is | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
on the debt now? I don't think so. Would you give it back to them? Of | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
course not, what a ridiculous question. My job is to give the | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
media training and I did it. I then worked with the regions. If you had | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
watched the Home Affairs Select Committee, which you have failed to | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
do. Let me bring in Zoe Williams. What is your view? The Police | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
Federation is a union to represent its members so the idea it shouldn't | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
be political and anything that goes against the government is political | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
is really strange. It is there to lobby on behalf of its members. The | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
Mitchell affair is unfortunate. What about you is that a to further its | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
campaign? Jews think they were doing that? That's do you think? It was an | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
open call, wasn't it? It was irresistible, that story. It | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
should've been resisted. One of the problems with the police, it isn't | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
just Plebgate. It is Mark Duggan, Hillsborough, it's that poor man who | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
was bludgeoned to death. And the reputation of the police, all the | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
police, is absolutely down. It's no good you being self-righteous and | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
saying, Keith Vaz doesn't listen to my evidence. He couldn't read | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
afterwards. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter? It doesn't matter | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
they came to the conclusion? Let her finish. There were loads and loads | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
of really good, hard-working and very, very courageous police | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
officers who don't support the report. 91% of police officers... | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
The Normanton report show that it doesn't agree with a national | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
leadership for the correctly for the 91%, National leadership. The | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
absolutely right, the police had taken a hit on a lot of things and | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
rightly so. Hillsborough, rightly so. The Police Federation is a | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
professional body to lobby for the rights. -- the rights of the police. | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
If separate authoritarian. We have to leave it there. | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
Ed Miliband's guru, called David Axelrod, is in town this week | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
At the end of the show we'll see if Zoe and Sue can give us | :11:58. | :12:14. | |
Now it was way back in 2009 that Gordon Brown set up an | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
Five years later and the man in charge, John Chilcot, still isn't | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
The delay is being blamed on a disagreement over whether to publish | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
classified correspondence between former Prime Minister Tony Blair and | :12:32. | :12:33. | |
This programme has learned that the chairman of the Public | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
Administration Select Committee, Bernard Jenkin, has written to | :12:39. | :12:40. | |
Cabinet Secretary Jeremy Heywood and Cabinet Office minister Francis | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
Maude, warning them that he may call them in front of his committee | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
Here's Eleanor Garnier's report which does contain | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
It was Winston Churchill who coined the phrase the special relationship. | :12:53. | :13:06. | |
He was something of an expert at forging friendships with US | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
presidents like Franklin D Roosevelt. And since Churchill's | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
day, Britain's oration ship with America have been pretty much | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
accepted by all US presidents and British prime ministers. But there | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
is something lurking that is threatening to turn that special | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
relationship a little bit sour. It is the Chilcott enquiry. What? Can I | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
explain what it is? Yes, I can. The Chilcott enquiry is an | :13:36. | :13:44. | |
independent... The Chilcott enquiry is an independent investigation into | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
the invasion of Iraq back in 2003. Good morning and welcome to the | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
Iraqi enquiry's first day of public hearings. Sir John Chilcott is a man | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
in charge. His enquiry started in 2009. Two years later, it was still | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
taking evidence from key witnesses but the findings still haven't been | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
published. The delay is being blamed on discussions between the enquiry | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
and the Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood over the publication of | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
top-secret notes and conversations between the then Prime Minister Tony | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
Blair and former US President George Bush. The Prime Minister's patients | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
are said to be running out and there's frustration from senior Tory | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
MPs. It's very serious that this report is now at least four years | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
overdue. So we have written to the Minister to ask for explanation as | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
to why these delays occurred and what is holding up the publication | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
of the report? And how these issues will be resolved on the basis of | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
that, we may call for the Minister or indeed for the Cabinet Secretary | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
to come and give evidence to explain how they will sort this out. They've | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
already had a full investigation surrounding the Iraqi war including | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
the Hutton affair and Butler enquiry. The former Minister from | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
Tony Blair 's government to the classified correspondence shouldn't | :15:08. | :15:08. | |
stop this latest report from being published. My experience of chairing | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
the intelligence and security committee was that we published | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
very, very sensitive material but we did it by ensuring that those | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
agents, informants, who might be under threat of death, where | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
protected by adapting certain sentences so blacking out certain | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
references, and I don't see why Chilcott enquiry can't do this and | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
then he will be able to publish as document and we will look at it. The | :15:37. | :15:47. | |
report is likely to give an indication as to the depth of the | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
special relationship between Tony Blair and George Bush. So, that is | :15:51. | :15:59. | |
the situation surrounding the Chilcott E enquiry. Seeing as you | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
are such good friends, I will leave you chatting while I find out what | :16:03. | :16:04. | |
is happening. We're joined now by the former | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
Lib Dem leader Ming Campbell and Anyone who is liable to criticism | :16:09. | :16:23. | |
gets to see the passage that might criticise him or her. Sir John | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
Chilcott has not been able to embark upon that process because he is | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
still in dispute with the Cabinet Secretary as to whether or not there | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
can ultimately be published the exchanges between George W Bush and | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
Tony Blair in the run-up to the war. Why are these important? They are | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
important for this reason. The decision to take military action | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
against Saddam Hussein was the most serious form of policy blunder | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
probably since Suez or maybe before that. This particular thing which | :16:55. | :17:02. | |
says exchanges like that are confidential, it is in the public | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
interest. The public interest now is overwhelmingly in favour of | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
understanding the political journey which the Labour government, under | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
Tony Blair, reached the decision to take military action. That is why in | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
my view, said John Chilcott is absolutely right and the Government | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
should acknowledge those requests. There are certain conversations that | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
should be left to history. Private conversations between leaders can be | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
blue sky thinking. I do not think what we could gain from theirs. It | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
was not a policy decision, it was said in a conversation. We would | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
gain if we knew from the start we were going to war. That would be | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
important, given what we knew in the run-up. He told us all he had to do | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
was give up his weapons of mass destruction and there would be no | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
war. If he told Mr Bush is something very different, that would be | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
germane. I think it was an offhand conversation. I do not see what we | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
will learn from it. Do promise you will take this country to war is an | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
offhand conversation? Do you know it was an actual promise? That is the | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
whole point. The question is timing. When did Tony Blair commit | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
the United Kingdom? Was he aware that the argument in favour of | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
regime change was one which laid very strongly behind the American | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
position, behind George W Bush? Did he understand that Article two of | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
the United Nations Charter opposes regime change? We really need to | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
know how it was that the political thinking developed. Another thing, | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
which is pushed to one side often, what was the attitude of the Cabinet | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
towards this? They have been described as supine. Some say the | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
topic was never properly discussed. That may have been because | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
commitments had already been given in private conversations. The | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
American president is covered by executive privilege. Just as if you | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
had a conversation with your own lawyer. It is a very important | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
concept. Leaders need to get free and open advice. With Mr Nixon, the | :19:31. | :19:43. | |
Supreme Court overruled his right to executive privilege, so it is not | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
necessarily watertight. If I was sitting down with my lawyer and he | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
wants some crazy ideas to blue sky think, I want him to have the | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
opportunity of free speech, to get it through the Crucible and | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
throughout the bad starts. -- stuff. I think that is a different thing. | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
The point is, if the conversations are going to become public in living | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
memory, all within the contemporary period of the events, that they will | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
find another way all closed down that kind of communication? This is | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
not normal course. That is the point. This is the decision... | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
Remember a million people walked past this door outside protesting | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
against this. You cannot find anyone who was in the Labour Cabinet or the | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
Labour government at the time the decision was made who is trying to | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
defend now what happened. The consequences were far beyond what | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
had been anticipated, deeply damaging to Iraq and deeply damaging | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
both to the United Kingdom and the United States. There seems from what | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
Menzies Campbell is saying, that there seems to be a stand-off | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
between Chilcott and the Cabinet Secretary. How does that get | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
resolved? With difficulty is the answer. I suspect what has to happen | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
is the pressure needs to be kept up. It seems to me, I absolutely agree | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
with what Menzies Campbell has said. Normally, civil servants, advisers, | :21:26. | :21:34. | |
ministers Presidents need to discuss these things will stop I think it is | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
absolutely in the public interest. I think that Bernard Jenkins saying he | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
would call Sir Jeremy Heywood in and Francis Maude but it is Jeremy he | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
would call Sir Jeremy Heywood in and Francis Maude but it is Jeremy who | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
is the, they must not be allowed to get away with continually saying, it | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
is difficult. I am told it is the lawyers, as you suggested, saying it | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
would set a precedent. It should not be left to the lawyers. Executive | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
privilege would only work as an argued if, in this case, Tony Blair | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
were not already held to have behaved wrongly. I think it would | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
work in his favour to have those conversations released. There is | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
nothing they could release that people do not already say about him. | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
We all think he had given... It is a different issue. We all think that | :22:34. | :22:43. | |
he had made an agreement with George Bush we do not know about. All it | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
could do is either confirm that or deny it and I do not think he is | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
doing his own case a favour by trying to keep it private. He is | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
making it worse. People are saying, Michael Dobbs the other day, this | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
has all happened because Blair is putting the pressure on. I do not | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
think that is true. Cabinet secretaries are close to whichever | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
ministers they are working with. Mr Blair Brown what was subsequently | :23:18. | :23:25. | |
called a sofa government. At that time, he was permanent secretary at | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
number ten. When it looked like there might be coalitions and we | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
asked whether the civil service was ready for a coalition government, he | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
said, we're not even ready for a change of government. Where do we go | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
from here? It seems from what you say, this is still an unresolved | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
argument. Even when it is resolved .com -- when it is resolved, it goes | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
back to Robert Maxwell. He was criticised and now he could have | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
been entirely right but that is a different debate. This is not going | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
to happen before the election, is it? There are those who believe that | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
this delay, among other things, as its purpose, kicking this into the | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
long grass until after the election. Where this to be published in the | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
run-up to the general election, it would become part of the campaign. | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
Why would the Conservative government or conservative and | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
Democrat government be reluctant? Not the current regime. I think | :24:34. | :24:42. | |
there were 25 who did not agree. Ken Taylor, Douglas Hurd and others. | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
Labour would take the biggest hit. I think Labour would benefit from | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
having an open Anne Frank discussion about who thinks what an saying, | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
this is what we stand for. -- Anne Frank discussion. The danger is that | :24:59. | :25:09. | |
American presidents will be wary of this. If you want a current version | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
of this deal, look at the Benghazi scandal. I can understand it. | :25:19. | :25:28. | |
it's the debates between the five main candidates for the post | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
There are some similarities with Eurovision though. | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
Last night was the grand finale and it was shown on 49 TV stations. | :25:36. | :25:48. | |
We have to invest into the economy but a greener economy cars we need | :25:49. | :26:04. | |
to create sustainable jobs, jobs that will still be there in a couple | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
of decades. Jobs that give good quality of life. Apple wants to | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
start with a new product for the bigger to the four main operators | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
and start immediately to start a new product. If we had to do it, we need | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
100 operators in 28 different countries. That is why they have | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
Google, Facebook, Twitter, Apple, Microsoft. They are all American | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
companies and we still need to do that. The biggest deficit in Europe | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
is a democratic deficit. Citizens stay away. They do not believe their | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
vote will make a big change to the strategy and direction of Europe as | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
it currently is. In the past, the European elections were boring. | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
There was no confrontation. Secondly, it was abused for mid-term | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
election of national governments. I think the debate here shows we are | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
changing in the European Union, to more democracy, more controversial | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
debate, Porter 's bouncy. This is a step forward. I would like a Europe | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
that does not cultivate divisions. I would like to put an end to | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
divisions between north and south, young and old member states. I would | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
like a Europe of consensus, of wise compromise. I would like a Europe | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
which allows the Europeans to fall back in love with Europe. I'd bet | :27:35. | :27:44. | |
you are disappointed you missed that. | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
Joining me now from Brussels is our correspondent, | :27:51. | :27:52. | |
Duncan Crawford, who soaked up every minute of the debate. | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
Why are these debates happening? They are taking place to drum up | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
support for what is going on in the European Parliamentary elections and | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
also to put a face to the party to try to end the democratic deficit | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
the European Commission has. You have the five main party group | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
candidates. You saw them speak there. They believe that if their | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
party group gets the most MEPs in the European Parliamentary | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
elections, they should be the one to head up the European Commission. It | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
is a big job for the European Commission president. It is the only | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
institution in the EU which can propose legislation. He or she, | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
whoever gets that post, will be able to influence the direction which | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
Europe moves in for the next five years. So, they have the debate. It | :28:46. | :28:52. | |
was polite at those times. They did not disagree that often. There were | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
a few jibes at each other and some disagreement. Largely on the big | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
economic matters, trying to get people out of unemployment and into | :29:01. | :29:08. | |
jobs, tackling youth unemployment and immigration, illegal | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
immigration. There was a lot of consensus. I understand that despite | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
the opened transparency of the debate and whoever is the largest | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
group can choose the president of the commission from the European | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
Parliament, it could still be done in a backroom deal by the leaders of | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
the nation states. You are right. Basically, historically, it always | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
has been done that way. David Cameron, Angela Merkel, their | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
predecessors in the past, they would have gone behind closed doors and | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
work out who they would want to have the top job of the European | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
Commission president. This time around, it is different because of | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
the Lisbon Treaty. It says that EU heads of member states say they need | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
to take into consideration what the European Parliament wants. Certainly | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
the potential for some institutional deadlock in Brussels over this. | :30:00. | :30:06. | |
David Cameron will have concerns about the five candidates involved | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
in this debate last night. Most likely they will be viewed as too | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
federalist, two in favour of integration in Europe. If David | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
Cameron wins the next general election, he wants to renegotiate | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
Britain 's relationship with the EU. Before we get to that, I want to get | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
a brief wedding about Scotland. I understand there was a mention of | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
Scotland last night. What did they say about this argument that if | :30:34. | :30:47. | |
Scotland The general answer was they shouldn't get involved, it wasn't a | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
thing for the EU to comment on at this stage, it is up to the member | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
states are bad, that said, Martin Short, the Socialist candidate who | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
is currently the European Parliament president, said the procedures could | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
be followed suggesting that Scotland, if it became independent, | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
could join with the EU and the Green candidates, she talks about | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
welcoming Scotland into the EU. Would they have to reapply? They | :31:19. | :31:28. | |
didn't say they would have to reapply. They basically ducked the | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
question is that it wasn't their place to comment. The Green | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
candidate was talking about welcoming Scotland into the EU, | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
independently, about as positive as it got, really, for Alex Salmond. | :31:41. | :31:48. | |
Thank you very much. Does this make the European elections more | :31:49. | :31:56. | |
interesting? I give them half a small cheer for shuffling towards | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
something slightly more democratic. But otherwise, no. Ultimately, if | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
the heads of individual countries decide who to have, then that's | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
almost certainly going to be who it will be. It could be very | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
interesting, the row between them, but I bet that is smoothed over and | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
deals are done behind closed doors. Neither are the frontrunners, are | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
coming anywhere near here in this country. We are not going to see | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
site nor sound of them. Labour and the Lib Dems will be happy with that | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
because both are very staunch federalists. I know why they like | :32:36. | :32:43. | |
Scotland, because it's so windy. The Green party is fit in favour of | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
independence. More windmills, more wind farms. It's the jewel in our | :32:50. | :33:00. | |
green crime. O. Then you are unlikely to be acceptable to the | :33:01. | :33:02. | |
Prime Minister is the Irish prime ministers. It's very difficult. Even | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
though socialist doesn't mean the same thing, if you are voting | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
socialist, you would be voting for somebody on the left. It's | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
federalism Mr Cameron is objecting to. They all are. Maybe that's not | :33:20. | :33:28. | |
why they're coming here. The interesting thing is, the impetus in | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
Europe this towards greater federalisation because that's the | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
only way they would get out of the Euro crisis. And avert another | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
crisis. Nothing David Cameron does Canada reflect what is best for | :33:40. | :33:41. | |
Europe. OK, let's move on. So that's one attempt to get voters | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
engaged ahead In case you'd forgotten, | :33:45. | :33:46. | |
although that would be pretty tricky if you're a regular viewer | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
of this show, next Thursday is And if you live | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
in England or Northern Ireland you could also be voting in local | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
and mayoral elections. The turn out for these types of | :33:59. | :34:00. | |
election are usually pretty poor. But with the EU never far | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
from the headlines will this year be Adam's been out to find out | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
if people are feeling switched on, Do you know what's happening next | :34:08. | :34:35. | |
Thursday? Do you know how many MEPs will be elected next Thursday? 50. | :34:36. | :34:47. | |
60? 120. 100? 73. Tell your friends. Where are you from? Belgium. Will | :34:48. | :34:56. | |
you be voting next week? Yes, Belgium has compulsory voting. What | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
happens is be done to vote? You could get fined. Do you know the | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
European Parliament is? Brussels? And? It's in France. It's gone. | :35:06. | :35:16. | |
Strasberg. Yes. How much of your councillors up for election? I don't | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
know. I don't know what proportion is up for election. I think we had | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
about six candidates. That's all I know from the voting form. Do you | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
know what voting system they use for the European elections? It's a form | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
of proportional representation. An open list or a closed list? It's a | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
party list system. Do you work for a party? I am a candidate, yes. I | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
thought using suspiciously familiar. And well-informed. I think that's | :35:48. | :35:49. | |
the only reason he knew the answer. And we're joined now by Katie Ghose | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
from the Electoral Reform Society. As the name suggests, they campaign | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
for reforms to the electoral system. It's interesting the more power | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
that's gone to the European Parliament, the lower the turnout in | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
the election has been. That's right, and without expecting a turnout for | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
the year rose or the locals to be higher than the low 30s, which is | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
where it has remained stubbornly low and also we not saying that although | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
Europe is all over the headlines, that's not translating into a huge | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
public appetite to go to the polls and it's also not leading people to | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
take part in local democracy more. This is a long-term problem. People | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
have been tuning out from formal party politics from long time and I | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
don't think there's a quick fix to that. In the Euro election, the | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
first time in 1979 with 62%, which seemed quite healthy but by 2009, it | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
dropped to 43% and it's probably going to be lower this time. People | :36:49. | :36:56. | |
don't think it matters very much? People feel it's very remote. People | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
feel national MPs are increasingly alien from their concerns. Whether | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
that's fair or not. You take the European Council, it feels even more | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
remote. Actually, these politicians and decision-makers have a say and | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
influence over jobs and homes and security but people don't feel it to | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
be that way. On the local elections, I was covering the local elections | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
in France. The turnout was pretty impressive both in the first round | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
and the second round. One of the reasons for that is that it matters | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
in France who the Mayor is. It matters who the local councillors. | :37:39. | :37:46. | |
They have real power. In many ways, I live in France for part of the | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
year, and it's more important to me who my local French Maher is done | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
the president is. -- French Mayor. You've hit the nail on the head. If | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
there were more meaningful powers and budget held locally, people | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
might feel it was worth going to the polls but we've also got a very | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
outdated system which means there are loads of uncontested seats. | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
Between 2011-14, two .5 mil in people didn't have a save -- say | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
because only one party going for it in the award, uncontested. And also | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
the party thought, I'd better put my resources elsewhere. We are | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
disenfranchising millions of people. No wonder people are thinking with a | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
platter of uncontested seats, if not is worth my while. In Scotland, the | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
referendum there, even very hard and nonvoters are saying and going to | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
give my damnedest to this and I'm going to vote in the referendum. You | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
think the turnout on September 18 will be very high? Yes. It's going | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
to be really-I'm not going to have a stab at it. I've had discussions | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
with Scottish people who don't normally vote and they say this is | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
the future of my country and 16-year-olds are going to be voting | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
for the first time and this is very exciting. I think they will be very | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
engaged and it's only a matter of time before we have young people | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
developing the voting habits for life. Maybe this is another problem | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
here, the European Parliament for the London region. The whole of | :39:25. | :39:33. | |
London? Yes, the London region. You vote only once by putting across in | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
the box next to your choice. I thought the system was proportional | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
representation? You don't have much choice as as a closed system. This | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
gives the names, people on this list of been chosen by the parties. They | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
have behaved themselves. Yes, and parties are too much control. If we | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
want to breathe fresh life into politics, we need to respond to | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
modern voters who want choice. Do you know who your MEP is? When I do | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
it, you have got to shock me but an informal vote swapping system. | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
Across the country. There is somebody I want to vote for in the | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
south-west. I could sever the Facebook page and it will be trust | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
based. You can't enforce it but you can say, you vote was so-and-so and | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
in return, I will vote for your party. I think that's going to be | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
quite unusual. Do you know the name of your MEP? I'm afraid I don't. I | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
don't. If I saw it, it would ring about. | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
LAUGHTER The fact people have to think about | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
tactics shows we have a pretty old-fashioned system that's not | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
working. People like these two don't know who the MEPs are, what hope for | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
the rest? That's the problem. Also three quarters of British people | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
feel their voice doesn't count in the European Union, so it's the | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
thing is not being heard. I just wonder, I know what you're saying, | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
but in some places, please, the controversy and the impact of UKIP | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
isn't going to put off the turnout. I think it could happen. Newark is | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
very soon after if you kept us very well in these elections. I will def | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
to the other five I have got. Thank you for being with us. | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
Now, in America, politicians quite regularly say they | :41:30. | :41:31. | |
are driven by their Christian faith to take public office. | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
Over here MPs tend to be more reticent about discussing religion | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
And when they do, it can cause a bit of a kerfuffle. | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
Ahead of Easter Sunday, David Cameron wrote in the Church Times | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
that Britain should be proud of its status as a Christian country. | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
Plenty of secularists disputed that, and the former Archbishop | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams said that Britain was | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
a post-Christian country because so many people have given up | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
One small group called the Christian People's Alliance is hoping to prove | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
him wrong and make an impact at next week's European elections. | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
They want to leave the EU, but in the meantime they want to bring | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
What they describe as their key moral issues include the importance | :42:11. | :42:18. | |
The leader of the Christian People's Alliance, Sid Cordle joins us now. | :42:19. | :42:31. | |
If you have a Christian Prime Minister who says we live in a | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
Christian country, why do we need your party? Because basically this | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
government has not pursued Christian policies. There are a lot of reports | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
because this is a European election, coming to the European Parliament on | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
issues like abortion, one of the proposals is going to take away the | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
right of the doctor to refuse to conduct an abortion. Other proposals | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
are saying they want to dictate what is taught in schools on sex | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
education. The Conservatives have abstained on all these reports. | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
There is no opposition coming from the Conservative Party. But there | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
are strong Christians on both sides of the house. For people who think | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
like you, would they not be more progress? More likely to influence | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
the debate if you concentrated all votes on getting people elected | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
rather than your own people? You and I both know you're not going to win | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
any seats. No, I don't accept that. This is a tremendous opportunity for | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
us. There are an enormous number of Christians who have left the | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
Conservative Party over the issue of same-sex marriage. Sadly, too many | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
of them have gone to UKIP. But I think they are beginning to find | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
that in UKIP, it's not a natural home for Christians. This issues of | :43:54. | :44:01. | |
racism in UKIP. They have made life difficult for you, haven't they? You | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
would be doing better if they didn't exist? Not necessarily. UKIP brought | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
the whole issue of Europe onto the agenda and they provide an | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
attractive alternative which hasn't really existed before. It's only | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
existed fairly recently, but people need to see that, actually, I don't | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
believe the majority of people in this country want to live under a | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
UKIP government. Frankly. I think there would be happy to live under | :44:30. | :44:31. | |
Christian People's Alliance government. Do you? Absolutely. The | :44:32. | :44:39. | |
Pope said last, if the person is gay and six God and has good will, who | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
am I to judge? Would you welcome though some gay people? Of course, | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
don't judge people because of their lifestyle. When not against people | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
but the principles on which we stand. Earlier this year, UKIP | :44:51. | :44:57. | |
councillors said the floods in Britain were due to gay marriage. | :44:58. | :45:06. | |
You wouldn't accept that? the way he said it was completely wrong. What | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
about the substance? All Christians believe that God does things with | :45:12. | :45:21. | |
nature. Because he is gay? He supports gay marriage? A lot of | :45:22. | :45:29. | |
Christians believe that God is angry at gay marriage. Where David Silva | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
Esther was wrong is to be adamant this is the case. If he thinks it is | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
possible this is the case, the majority of Christians, I certainly | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
would agree with that. You tweeted that if the head of the Environment | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
Agency, Chris Smith, one of the most openly gay politicians in British | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
life, if he resigned the floods would stop. If he resigned, the | :45:54. | :46:01. | |
floods with stop. You said it is like Job. If he resigned p, I am | :46:02. | :46:10. | |
sure the floods would stop. I not know quite where that quote has come | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
from. That is from your tweets. One of the problems on Twitter is you | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
only have a very few words to say. It is quite clear what you said. If | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
gay people could change the weather, wouldn't that make them God 's | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
anointed people? I think, quite honestly, we are delving into an | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
area which is quite honestly not of interest to the majority of people. | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
You are socially conservative, aren't you? What I would say | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
categorically is, as a Christian, I believe God is involved in every | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
aspect of society. He is very interested in marriage. Marriage is | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
a pillar of society and vitally important to us. I believe children | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
need a mother and a father and they need that stability. Breakdown of | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
marriage is costing this country some 46 billion. That will rise to | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
49 billion. We need to do something about it and it does matter. In | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
America, that would be regarded as the socially conservative Christian | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
view. That is what you represent in this country, am I right? What he | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
said on gay marriage and whether children should be brought up by two | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
parents in the same sex and so on... I would say I am a Christian. | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
A Christian is a follower of Jesus 's teaching. That is clear and I | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
have no problem whatsoever in following that teaching. We are | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
grateful for you coming in and explaining that. We will have you | :47:56. | :47:57. | |
back. If you've been watching the BBC | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
during the early evenings or sometimes late | :48:03. | :48:04. | |
at night over the last month, Not just how The One Show is really | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
just a pale imitation of the Daily Politics but a rash | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
of party election broadcasts. Since the early days of BBC radio, | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
the political parties have been given a slice of airtime to | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
communicate directly to the voters Let's have a look at some | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
of the most recent crop. I believe you have the right to have | :48:22. | :48:45. | |
your say on Europe. When we have finished renegotiating Britain 's | :48:46. | :48:46. | |
relationship with the European Union, we will give you the final | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
decision with them in /out referendum by the end of 2017. Let | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
open all the doors and batten down the hatches. Sky 20 million | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
immigrants. That is why, when it comes to Europe, the answer is | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
simple. On 22nd of May, take the right choice and vote for... | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
Something else. The last two generations have been robbed of | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
voting on the EU yet it has a great impact on our everyday lives than | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
anything else. We need to put this issue to bed now and not leave it | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
for another generation. I'm asking you to vote for the Liberal | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
Democrats, the party of in. In for the sake of British prosperity and | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
jobs. If I allow energy companies to raise their prices, you will defend | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
it? You will keep your mouth shut about huge profits? Yes. Jolly good, | :49:47. | :50:02. | |
well done you. We are joined by the man who designed how much airtime | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
parties will get. Welcome to both of you. Do people enjoy watching these | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
party election broadcasts or can you see a switch off when they come on? | :50:12. | :50:18. | |
Definitely. You switch on for Phil Mitchell and you get David Cameron. | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
He is in EastEnders. That is a small programme on BBC One! I think it can | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
have a counter-productive effect. People can be turned off. They want | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
to watch their favourite programme and there is a politician. I wanted | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
to get away from those guys, I have just watched the news and here they | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
are again, trying to ram ideas down my throat and I do not like that. It | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
plays into the idea of political apathy. Voting levels are down. Do | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
you think it was that kind of fear that led Labour to make this | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
controversial TV about the shrinking... ? First of all the fear | :51:00. | :51:07. | |
of showing Ed Miliband. He is not in it. Labour is mentioned in the last | :51:08. | :51:15. | |
really second of it. David Axelrod has been brought in to try to | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
improve his TV profile. His three advisers are all from newspapers. He | :51:21. | :51:27. | |
is perceived as a turn-off. Voting, their poll in the internal pressure | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
groups and their little focus groups that they do, are suggesting that | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
people think he is a bit of a geek. Do not put him on your TV. I think | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
it is a very bad idea to go negative. You're going to send | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
people into the warm embrace of UKIP. You are saying all politicians | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
are the same and it is extremely cynical. Let's have a look at some | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
of the rules on this. What are the rules when it comes to PEB is? How | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
do parties qualify for getting airtime and how do you decide how | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
many slots they get? Thank you for that one. The starting point is how | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
many candidates they are putting up. It is different in different sorts | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
of elections. Let's take the European elections. If you have a | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
full slate of candidates in England, you get a single broadcast. There is | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
a second criteria which is parties that can demonstrate electoral | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
support will get additional broadcasts. Traditionally, three | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
broadcasts were Labour, Tory, UKIP, the Lib Dems. The Greens have two. | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
It is based as a starting point for 2009. The smaller parties will get | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
one broadcast and the bigger parties will get more in the Europeans. In | :52:44. | :52:52. | |
the locals, they'll get one. When they demonstrate support, the polls | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
relevant? Can be. You take that into account. We take that into account | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
in our editorial coverage. The process of deciding this is, the | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
starting point, it is candidates. Largely it is what happened in the | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
last equivalent election. A lot of our viewers have wondered, and even | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
complained, about why UKIP is getting so much time? They get three | :53:22. | :53:30. | |
broadcasts, as they did in 2009. If you look back at the previous | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
European elections, in 2004 they did pretty well. That is why they got | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
the same number of broadcasts in 2009. They came second in 2009. It | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
would be quite reasonable for them not to get the same number of | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
broadcasts as the bigger parties. Some also think they are getting too | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
much time on programmes like this. Is there a formula for how much time | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
they all get in the run-up to the they all get in the run-up to the | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
elections? Formula is too strong a word, it implies you | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
elections? Formula is too strong a that you do it with good judgment. | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
You look at the fact that UKIP did well last time. It makes sense for | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
them to have the same kind of coverage and scrutiny that the | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
bigger parties are getting. You do take that into account. You have got | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
to take account as well of things that may have happened since, | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
subsequent elections. They have had a very strong run in the opinion | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
polls. The polls can be relevant. UKIP have been running ahead of the | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
Lib Dems for getting on for two years. People often wonder why Nigel | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
Farage appears so much on current affairs broadcasts where somebody | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
like Caroline Lucas does not. UKIP has no MP and make do point out that | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
opinion polls of the Mirror the picture you see on current affairs | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
broadcasts. If you are often represented, some would say in | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
excess of their real representation... I think the mirror | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
thing does not work. You look at the opinion polls and it is a really | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
robust trend. What has happened in the past two years in terms of | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
support for UKIP, if you look what happened in the local elections last | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
time, UKIP had no background in the councils and they shot towards 20%. | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
If you look at by-elections in local councils, UKIP have been, not just | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
an opinion polls, but real votes have been getting around 17 to 20%, | :55:23. | :55:30. | |
ahead of the Lib Dems. You get a small boost, more coverage and then | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
more boost. Firemen cut we have to give them coverage if people are | :55:34. | :55:43. | |
giving them support. -- we have to give them coverage if people are | :55:44. | :55:50. | |
giving them support. Natalie Bennett will be on the Sunday Politics. It | :55:51. | :56:01. | |
is not random. It is by looking at objective figures on how people | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
vote. What do you make about the idea of hosting a TV debate online? | :56:09. | :56:19. | |
The Wild West of the internet! You might put an audience that seems to | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
be totally uninterested in politics at the moment. I mentioned before, | :56:23. | :56:29. | |
voter apathy. It is strong among the younger people. They think, these | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
people are not speaking for us. They are all middle-aged men in suits and | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
they are not speaking for me. If you put them on a forum where they might | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
achieve in, I do not think that is a good idea. Sky one advantage of it, | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
to a greater extent it cuts out the political class that the | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
broadcasters, the politicians... There would be far fewer rules and | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
regulations which politicians often used as an excuse for not doing TV | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
debates. We would love to do them but the rules, we cannot abide by | :57:00. | :57:09. | |
them. The other thing is... You can use, I think... There will be | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
opportunities to use Skype and video to bring in a far greater number of | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
people asking questions directly instead of the traditional studio. | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
It is not either/or. As you saw there, | :57:23. | :58:12. | |
the American political guru, David Axelrod, who's fast becoming a bit | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
of an obsession here at Westminster, has been in London meeting senior | :58:18. | :58:20. | |
Labour figures this week. So let's find out the answer to | :58:21. | :58:23. | |
our quiz. We asked what's wrong with | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
this tweet from Mr Axelrod? He's spelt the Labour leader's name | :58:28. | :58:29. | |
wrong and, in doing so, Thanks to our back on BBC One | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
on Sunday with an elections feast on the Sunday Politics, | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
with Sajid Javid, Simon Hughes Female artists have rocked the world | :58:42. | :58:43. | |
for centuries. Not only did she impress and surprise | :58:44. | :59:11. | |
Michelangelo, in her nineties, | :59:12. | :59:17. | |
she won the homage of van Dyck. So just how did they push the | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
boundaries and flout convention? | :59:22. | :59:25. |