Conference Special Daily Politics

Last week Labour made it clear it was putting the NHS at the heart of

its election campaign. They think it's their issue. Today the Tories

are out to convince us - it's their issue, too. Welcome to the Daily

Politics, live from day 3 of the Conservative Party Conference here

in Birmingham. Today's big announcement it from the Prime

Minister, even though his keynote speech isn't until tomorrow. It is

about health. Although it is not being announced by the Health

Secretary who is speaking today. Well party leaders like to be

associated with the good stuff and today the PM has announced GPs will

be on call seven days a week, seven hours a day, but not until 2020 for

everybody and he has not squared that with the GPs who tend to have

minds of their own. He also announced the same thing last year

but we are all in favour of recycling these days. I will be

talking to the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt.

I'm here at Westminster where I will be talking to the father of this

Conservative hero, Boris Johnson. He arrived last night to a rapturous

reception. He will no doubt get another one when he addresses

conference a little later. We'll have his speech, live.

Here in Birmingham, the Home Secretary, Theresa May says she's

going to ban extremism. We'll see how that works. And speaking of

extremism, as we come on air, Iraqi forces are struggling to stop

Islamic state militants advancing on Baghdad. Some reports have them 1

kilometre from the capital's western perimeter. We'll be asking the

Foreign Secretary, fillip ham ond, what happened to the air war? Zorb

Philip ham ond. -- Philip Hammond. And Giles has the balls to see what

is the divide over Europe. You are allowed one ball. Well it has to be

out. All that in the next hour-and-a-half

of the programme. Widely regarded as the Lidl of public service

broadcasting. The Culture Secretary, who we talked

to yesterday, Sajid Javid wants the BBC to do more for less. If we did

any more for less, we'd be paying you. Keeping off today's programme,

we have a pair of Muppets. Welcome to Mr Richards and Matthew Parris

from the Times. Average wages are falling in low

terms, if you are low paid they are falling in real terms and now they

are going to cut benefits, lower in real terms. Have the Tories given up

on blue-collar votes? You would be surprised about the thoughtfulness

between activists and Tory MPs here, mostly they agree with George

Osborne's suggestion for a two-year freeze. They don't see where else

you could get the ?3 billion but they are aware they'll take a direct

hit amongst some voters and there are also, some of them, worried

about the impact on those voters' families. What do you think, Steve?

I think it is an issue. I also think - I mean he mentioned the total

global figure of ?25 billion. He has a long way to go. Where are the

other ?22 billion coming from? I find with public spending, people

are theoretically thrilled to hear someone is going to be tough on

public spending until you get to the specifics. He will try to do this

quickly. It is his decision to do this quickly. I don't know where the

other ?22 billion will come from. And how he explains that as

he-and-a-half gates towards the next election. Is there not a feeling

with the election only seven months away that Mr Osborne may have

overdone it? ? I don't think so, on the whole, the Conservative Party,

as a force, so to speak s more worried about the deficit, than the

Government has seemed to be -- so to speak s more worry. Everything he

can do to get it down, they are in theory but there are questions in

practice. Squeezing the wages of below average and squeezing the bell

fair benefits of the below average n work, by the way, those in work, yet

you have cut the top rate of tax from 50 to 45%, and the pension

give-away yesterday is overwhelmingly beneficial to of a

fluent middle class homes. Where is the fairness? I must say - if I

could think of a good way to hit the rich, I would have included that,

were were I the Chancellor, in the speech because the we are all in it

together, did have a certain amount of resonance, Houghton do you hit

the rich, that's the question -- how do you? I think he has overdone it.

The economy is growing more than the Western world. I'm not sure if

that's true, as he said. But it is growing. But there is no need

towards rushing to cut the deficit in the first two years of the

Parliament. He said he is going to do that. I think politically it is

difficult to explain. The reason why the deficit is not falling anything

like as fast as he said, indeed it has risen in this first five months

of this financial year s that his income tax receipts are not coming

through. They are not coming through because wages are not growing. He is

caught in a vicious circle. That is always the case. When wages don't

grow, and the tax doesn't come in and when the tax doesn't come in,

you can't give away more to those whose wages are not growing. But

what can a Chancellor do about that? He could increase the minimum wage.

Yes, but then that's a direct hit, isn't it, for a lot of small and

medium-sized businesses and neither the Conservative Party nor any

sensible economists wants to put that on their sides. Let's look at

the fallout from the Mark Reckless defection. There has been a change,

an asymmetric reaction. Dug last Carswell they have written that off.

But they are -- Doug last. Douglas.

They think they can win in the Rochester constituency. If they

don't, it is a disaster. If he wins that, the sense of momentum for UKIP

will be really, really difficult for the Conservative Party. I think

they've got every chance of winning that seat. The Tories. The Tories.

Could Labour win? Could they slip through? It is also possible. All

the Tories I have spoken to here say that would be preferable for them

than UKIP. They could say the split right vote is letting Labour N but

obviously they want to win it. -- in. But I don't think we'll see a

Tory MP before that by-election in Westminster. They will be down

there. They have tonnes of resources. I think it is possible.

This whole UKIP defection is irrational, the Reckless and

considers well one but the Reckless one is also risky, in a which that

the Carswell one isn't from their perspective. I think it is more than

risky. I sense a turning of the tide. Actually this Reckless

defection could work to the Conservatives' advantage. There is a

very strong feeling of wanting to fightback now on this and a very

strong feeling of good rid dance to him, to Mr Carswell and two or three

others, if they want to go. I dare say there will be one before the

leader's speech tomorrow or immediately after T I think the

party will take that in its stride. -- after it. The danger for the

Tories is the nature of the fightback. If they try too hard to

woo those gone over to UKIP that places them in the wrong part of th

political spectrum if they want to win the general election. They have

to be careful how they target the voters. They have to be careful how

they frame the debate to get them back. They could end up too far to

the right. Let's leave it there for a moment. We may have you back. We

are in discussions with your agents at the moment. You mean if you can't

get anyone better. That's quote for saying "we can't get anyone else."

So Boris Johnson arrived in Birmingham last night to the usual

hero's welcome. Of course he hates the fuss and tries to avoid

publicity. A few weeks ago he announced his intentions to run for

Parliament and will be standing as an MP next year. The self-efacing

London mayor always attracts a big crowd. He is rather liked by the

party faithful. The London Mayor even had a gift, supporting a Boris

cut, thrown at him by one adoring fan. Boris is due to speak it the

hall in about 15 minutes. He will almost certainly be late. His annual

speech has become one of the highlights of the party conference.

I'm sure David Cameron can't wait for it. The faithful at least are

excited. Does the big Boris comeback involve trying to get the keys to

number ten? Jo is on the green with a man who may have an inkling of his

son's thinking. Yes, you gave the clue away.

Environmentalists, former MEP and author and of course, Boris

Johnson's father. What are you doing here and not supporting Boris at the

conference? Of course I am but you invited me to talk. I am launching

my new book in London. I point out to your thousands of delegates, it

is available in the book shop in Birmingham. Like father like son,

self-publicity never did anyone any harm.

Boris speaks for himself on these matters. As far as I know he is a

Mayor of London and a prospective parliamentary candidate for

Uxbridge. That's enough for him getting on with. But those are his

ambitions, you would like to see him as leader and former Prime Minister.

We all have ambitions for our children, we sometimes keep them to

ourselves? You never kept anything to yourself. Lots and lots of

things. I wanted to write a good book. I have written 24, is there a

good book? I'm not sure. Is it important to have a leader to unite

the Conservative family when there are defections like in the last two

days to UKIP? Well, the very good news s we have a leader, we have

David Cameron. This has been, by the way, as far as I'm concerned an

upbeat conference. I have there until last night. You know all this

stuff about defections. These are blips, and stories Blips, really,

can you put them down to this? You had Douglas Carswell, and Mark

Reckless and a form Deputy Mayor saying they want to go to a party

that says what it does and does what it says. Everyone knows defections

to UKIP are irrelevant. If they are interested in the things that UKIP

are interested in, well the answer is, vote Conservative. I spent 20

years working for Europe. 20 years. Cameron, David Cameron has given us

the answer here. We are going to have to referendum. Nobody else is

giving us that. He has not said what he will do if you don't get

reformed. You want it stay in, whether or not it is reformed. I'm

in the so sure that you can automatically assume that's my

action. I think you can What is your answer? If we get a real good deal

on immigration. When I worked in the European Commission, there was no

question that everybody had a right to work anywhere. You had to be a

Kewellified doctor before you qualified to practice. If you were a

dentist you had to say ah in different languages, not just in

English. All this stuff of everybody has a free right to go everywhere

and get all the benefits that can and must change. I think if Cameron

delivers that, that will be a very major point. Point is people don't

believe he can, and even those who think maybe he can, it will not go

far enough for them. Who and how do you unite the Conservative Party at

this stage? I think you have got it - I think we have a united party. Do

I sound like a broken record, I hope not. I do believe we have a united

party on this one. The pledge on the in-out referendum has brought...

Look, did you listen to Daniel Hammond this morning? He might have

been a defector, he said ass clearly as anything - he is not going to

defect. Do you think Boris Johnson would unite the party more? We know

the reception he gets and how popular he is with the party

faithful. We saw the reception he got last night? Could he be more

effective at uniting the Conservative Party? Don't think I'm

ducking this question. When I came here I thought we would have a broad

range of questions. I'm in favour of Boris. He said clearly he is going

to stay mayor until May 2016. We are going to win this election anyway.

So this is truth to tell, it does not arise. Do you think it helps,

then, when Boris Johnson at last night's reception, mocks UKIP's

supporters. You are talking about the vacuum cleaner. I am. But we'll

leave it there. I thought it was a good joke. But does it help if you

are mocking people going to UKIP and the sort of voters that the

Conservative Party wants to woo back? I have lived long enough to

know you should never duck a good joke. Basically jokes are what carry

the day for you in politics. I made lots and lots of jokes. Some have

flopped but some have been right. There was a joke once when I was

standing for election down in Hampshire and the Chairman of the

selection committee said - Mr Johnson if you are selected today

will your wife come to live with you in Hampshire. I said she may very

well come to live in Hampshire but not with me, I'm afraid. So that

works, sometimes. A former wife, I should say. John Redwood has say pro

EU businesses should be punished if they are seen to be meddling in

politics. Who? ProEU businesses should be punished? ? I'm not in

favour of that. I'm in the in favour of that. Did he say that? He is a

clever man. He couldn't say the National Anthem in Welsh, I know

that. He is a clever and bright man, I think he will regret having made

that remark. Thank you very much. That was Jo speaking to Boris's

resins on earth. Jeremy Hunt is with me. Health spending has been ring

fenced in this Parliament. Will it be ring fenced in the next

parliament? I would love to make a major announcement on the Daily

Politics. This is the place to make it. But we make announcements like

that when we are ready to make them, and now is not the moment. Let

me finish, you asked me the question. You haven't answered it.

Did me a chance. If you look at our record in this Parliament, it is

better than ring fencing. Spend on the NHS in this Parliament has gone

up by 4% in real terms. That is because we are committed to the NHS

and to have shown that commitment and will continue to show that

commitment. But at this stage in the last parliament when you were only

in opposition, you were able to tell me that you were going to ring fence

health spending. Now you are in government. Why can't you tell me

whether or not you will? When we are ready to make a big announcement on

NHS finances, we will do that. Will the Chancellor not give you the

money? You will just have to be patient. Seven-day GP surgeries. You

had it in the 2010 manifesto. You have announces again this year.

Instead of making all these announcements, why haven't you

attempted to get GP agreements to this? We haven't renounced it. --

announced it again. Last year we said we were going to make it

possible for a million people to get GP appointments seven days a week.

We deliver that. It was a pilot, and it worked. People of working age

don't want to wait a long time for an appointment or to take time off

work to see their GP, and they want to be up to see their GP at

weekends. It was a success, and we are now rolling that out. The Prime

Minister is saying this morning he is going to roll it out to another

million people, and by the end of the next Parliament, everyone will

be able to do it. It was in your 2010 manifesto, and it won't be

ready for everybody until 2020, ten years. Is that a Tory promise? We

have delivered it for more than a million people. And what the Prime

Minister said today is we are going to deliver it to another million

people. And he also said something else. These things can't be magic

doubt. To deliver this promise, you need more capacity in general

practice, and what he has also said is we are going to train 5000 more

GPs so that we have the capacity to deliver this commitment. And you

cannot do it unless you get a new contract with the GPs, correct? We

have announced a new contract today. Including this? It is part of what

we are offering. It is being agreed with GPs outside of that contract.

Have you begun negotiations with GPs yet? We have agreed it was 1200

surgeries, and we will agree it with 1200 more surgeries next year. We

have had no warning response when we offered this after last year's

contract. Far more people wanted to take part in this than actually did.

We have announced the new GP contract today, and we have said

that we are going to go back to GPs having personal responsibility for

their patients. We believe the relationship between doctor and

patient is very important. We want every single person in England to

have a named GP. But you can't just decree all this. Why have you

announced more money to extend hours for most GPs when they will tell you

that they need more resources just to deliver. You can't just ask GPs

to do more with existing resources, because they are worked off their

feet. It is also about making sure that they have that capacity. And

you are heading for a ?1 billion deficit. How will you address that?

The NHS as a whole is balancing its books and will continue to do so.

NHS England says there is good to be a ?2 billion black hole in the

2015/16 budget. They don't say that, they say that it is going to be

difficult to find efficiency savings. But we have found ?20

billion of efficiency savings in this Parliament, meaning we are

doing a million more operations every year than we were doing four

years ago. That is a tremendous achievement, and we're working hard

in tough circumstances, but the NHS, despite the gloom and doom, is

actually doing very well. But you are already missing five Kiwi team

times targets. NHS -- five key waiting times targets. You also have

to look at the volume of activity. We are doing nearly a million more

operations year. Take cancer. When we came to office, we had one of the

lowest cancer survival rate in Western Europe. We are now testing

1000 more people every single day for cancer in the NHS. We are on

track to treat a million more people this Parliament for cancer. And we

are starting to close the back gap with other European countries. One

of the targets that you miss is A waiting times. Is it true that you

privately think that drunks who need A treatment should pay for it

themselves? That is not what I said. I said I have sympathy for people

who think that those who behave irresponsibly put extra pressure on

our A, but it is difficult to work that out practically. ?6 billion of

NHS services are now out to tender. Why do you deny that you are

privatising the NHS? Because we are not. Using a charity, using the

independent sector to help fulfil NHS services is not privatisation

stop it is accepting that we don't have a monopoly of good ideas inside

the NHS, and we need to be prepared to look at other people who have

innovative ways of doing things. But if you look at the growth in the

private sector services of the NHS, it grew at twice the rate in the

last Government that it is done under this Government, and what we

have said is something very different. We don't want politicians

deciding if this is going to be done by the private sector or the

traditional NHS sector. Let's let GPs on the ground make those

decisions so that we can be sure that those decisions are taken not

ideological reasons but for what is best for the patients. The 2012

reform Acts opt that from being -- Reform Act stopped that from being

the fact. We have taken the decision as to who is given a contract away

from politicians and given it to local doctors. And as it happens,

they are increasing the use of the independent sector at a slower rate

than the last government, and that is their decision, and that is how

Richard E. I was reading about a couple of clinicians who are saying

that they haven't seen patients because they are too busy preparing

for bids. That is not fair. The process of how you decide who is

going to deliver services, unfortunately you have to follow EU

guidelines. We haven't changed that. What I think has changed is that I

would rather those decisions in the end were taken by doctors who know

what patients want. That didn't happen before. I think we're getting

better services, better services in the community, better services in

primary care and closer to home, and I think that is a good thing for

patients. But we don't know how this will work out. Why don't you put a

cap on this to see how it goes? At the moment there is no limit as to

how much this could go into the private sector, correct? The people

who decide should be local doctors. They are the ones, and as it

happens, they are increasing the use of the private sector at a slower

rate than the Labour government. There is no limit to the amount of

contracts that can be outsourced to the private sector, correct? The

limit is what local doctors say it should be. Are you not worried that

this is an uncharted experiment? You have taken ages to experiment with

GPs seven days a week, 12 hours a day. Don't you need to do some

experiment with this to reassure people that this is not

privatisation rather than just unleashing this before everybody?

Look at the evidence as to how things are happening. If you look at

the NHS compared to four years ago, if you look at some of the things

that really matter to people, whether they are treated with

dignity and respect, those figures are at record levels. Whether they

are getting a cancer diagnosis, a dimension diagnosis, all those

figures are record levels. If you look at the things that matter to

people who use the NHS, it is performing very well, and we are

very proud in this Government that under huge financial pressure,

pressure created because, frankly, the last government lost control of

our national finances, the NHS is holding up and doing well. You said

is doing well. NHS England is having to use money now that it was holding

back for winter full the 18 week maximum waiting list has been

broken. And for hours for A waiting targets, you have missed

that target. Have you hit any targets? We have hit the majority of

targets. These are the important ones. Let's take some of them. The

target is to see 95% of all within or hours. We are now seeing 2000

more people in A within four hours every single day then compared to

four years ago. That is an astonishing tribute to how well our

doctors are doing. So when you get a need the surface, you see an NHS

that is working hard, but it is doing extremely well in the

circumstances. If you are not giving extra money for the NHS, could you

carry on as Health Secretary? I would like to carry on as Health

Secretary. There are a lot of things I would like to do. I'm very

committed to this job. It is the best job I've ever done. And we have

shown in terms of our financial commitment, we have shown how

committed we are this Parliament. And what we do in a future spending

round will be the subject of future negotiations. It you can see

priorities by the way NHS spend has gone up, despite huge financial

pressures. If you were doing such a great job, why do only 5% of health

professionals in that recent poll think that your reforms were

positive? What I care about is what patients say, and if you look at

what patients say about their NHS care, they are very happy. Things

that they worried about being addressed. We have put hospitals and

a special measures, and five have been turned around. That was a

problem that the last government swept under the carpet. And I think

patients say about their local NHS that they think it is doing well. If

patients are a so happy, why does Labour have an 18 point lead on the

NHS over the Tories? They have been very clever at exploiting it is an

issue, and it is their traditional comfort zone. But if Labour want to

have a battle on the NHS, we are very proud and we think it is doing

well in challenging circumstances, and we have a plan for the future

that will help to continue to make sure that the NHS is there in the

way that we need it to be, and that is what the Prime Minister's

announcement about extending GP access is about, it is about

changing the NHS for a society with different expectations, and we are

delivering that. If you are, why do the polls show

that the NHS has risen to the third most important issue in the country,

just the low the economy and immigration? Concern has been rising

among the public, so why would that be if people are so happy? I would

dispute that it has risen to being the third biggest worry. I think

people have always been concerned about the NHS because it is one of

the most important things to everyone in this country. They want

to be able to see their GP, get to hospital in an emergency. This is

something that matters to all of us. And what we should be saying to the

British people is that if we want a strong NHS, we have to have a strong

economy. It is not a choice between the two. You need a strong economy

to pay for a strong NHS. And only one party, the Conservative party,

can offer both. Last week at the Labour conference, they put the NHS

at the centre of their election campaign. Do you welcome that?

Absolutely. When people look at the Labour record in Wales, where they

have been running the NHS for the last four years with frankly

appalling consequences, and they haven't been facing up to the poor

care in the number of hospitals, and people look at some of the problems

Labour left behind in the NHS, if they were to scrutinise that, they

are welcome. But we will stand on our record, because the NHS is done

very well. How does that square with Lynton Crosby's edict, the man who

is going to run the year of 2015 campaign, that you shouldn't talk

about the NHS at all? He doesn't say that. He pretty much does. What he's

saying is that what is important for people's families is that they have

jobs, and we have created 2 million in the private sector. That they

have a growing economy, we inherited a shrinking one, and we have turned

it around. And that you have the kind of economy that can fund more

than public services, which is what this Government has delivered. Can I

just clarify on one last point. Already acute hospitals have got a

half ?1 billion deficit so far, and it looks like they are heading for a

?1 billion deficit. How do you feel that? The NHS as a whole world

balances books. It is challenging for individual hospitals. But why?

Because before when they had financial pressures, they would cut

staff numbers, and we had short-staffed walls, particularly in

some of the elderly care wards. Now they know that is not a notch on. We

treat every single patient with dignity and respect and

compassionate care. So it takes longer. That is interesting, what

you said, but is not the answer to what I asked you, which is how will

you feel this ?1 billion black hole?

As I said the NHS will balance its books. I'm certain we will do that,

with the plans in place. We will work with trusts where there are

deficits to make sure that happens. Theresa May is speaking to the

conference now. Boris is going to follow. Which one do you fancy to be

the next Tory leader? I fanessy David Cameron, he is doing a

fantastic job. -- fancy. He will be our next Prime Minister

and lead this country through one of the biggest challenges since we have

had since the Second World War and British people know it is an

extraordinary thing to do. See yourself as leader one day? I think

David Cameron will be the man. He is not going to be oorned forever as he

said during the Scottish referendum, whenever he goes. When he falls,

Prime Minister Hunt. I think Health Secretary Hunt for five years, is my

ambition. Prime Minister Cameron is the Prime Minister. You want to say

as Health Secretary? I do. A sucker for punishment.

Thank you investment We mentioned Boris is coming up. Our Giles was

out and about voks popping as we say in the business -- vox popping.

Let's see what he Z

Rewe looking forward to Boris? Yes, I suppose so. Why? I wish he would

talk more sense and stop the messing about. He says humorous things. They

stick with you. What is the Boris affect? I don't know. I think he is

a sort of popstar of the political world. The fact is, when he came to

Leeds I have never seen so many people crowd round and want to meet

him. We should tap into it. You are definitely jealous. Of course I am.

Are youk looking forward to Boris? Very much looking forward to him.

Why does he get some pulses racing and others maybe not? Boris. An

exciting mayor. It is... Interesting -- because he is Boris He has more

charisma than a normal politician. I'm excited to see what he is going

to see especially now he has announced he is going to be an MP.

He exkuds friendliness and passion and warmth. You are swaying talking

about him. I think he is lovely. He is lovely. That's what she said.

Anyway, Boris is speaking shortly. Theresa May the Home Secretary is

still speaking to the hall. The hall is increasingly filling up. I kind

of suspect they are all there to see Boris. Boris Johnson, what is a

party to do with him? If he no 'S phenomenon, a spectacle. A

fairground show, a show pony, they love him. You mean's con? He is not

a conbut people, were they to come to consider him as a possible Prime

Minister, would be asking different questions from the questions they

are asking now. Is he fun? Is he going to be entertaining? He is all

those things and this party like all political parties are short on that.

Would they be asking tougher questions if there was a prospect he

could become leader of this party and Prime Minister They would be

asking much, much tougher questions. I'm not saying there wouldn't be an

answer to them but the questions have not been asked yet. He is on

message this morning. If I were Boris and wanted to be leader of the

Conservative Party. I would worry about the frenzy that surrounds him.

When people attract this degree of kind of hysteria, they never become

leader. When Michael Portillo used to come to Tory conferences, he was

adored, a similar frenzy. It never worked. Tony Benn for Labour in the

'80s, a frenzy you could feel around the whole town of the conference. I

was chairing a fringe meeting next door to him last night. I could feel

the atmosphere from his fringe meeting in our fringe meeting but it

is dangerous for him. In the end, it will go wrong in terms of the

leadership. There will be disappointment to accompany the

frenzy at some point. But there was a frenzy for Mr Benn at Labour

Conferences from the left. It was ideological, there was a frenzy from

Mr Portillo from the right of the Conservatives before we on This Week

reinvented him and made him a more cuddly, nicer figure. These are eye

legal logical. The Boris frenzy, I would suggest is the cult of

personality. With the other two it was about personality. Benn was a

mesmerising orator. Mr Portillo didn't have a personality. He had an

aura. An aura? He did. It is not what you are living with on Thursday

night. It went beyond ideological. But you are right they were rooted

in their parties and that was their appeal. He moves all over the place.

That could be a problem. It is a cult of personality. He is an

ideological chameleon, isn't he? All politics is about personality but

there is a serious danger for Boris Johnson. That is, I think, he is

trying to court the interest of the Conservative right. He is not a

right-wing politician. He is a middle of the road, liberal... A

social Liberal. Lotion Liberal. -- 'S 'S' social Liberal. He quite

likes Europe and immigration. So something that could happen, preever

to run seriously for the leadership, is he would have to betray the

Conservative right. That problem could come over the hills. He is

playing the populist card at the moment. And his speeches are also

all over the place ideological. Some of them have been quite Keynesen.

Putting the London economy, benefitting the UK economy. Then he

will argue for a much smaller state. Then he says he wants to be in

Europe and then hint happy outside Europe. These things would have to

be tested if he were to stand for the leadership. That would apply to

other candidates. I mean they are all pitching right wards at the

moment because that's where they feel they need the support to read a

leadership contest. In the end, coherent messages win leadership

contests. It is widely assumed if Mr Miliband loses in May, he will

resign as Labour Leader. If Mr Cameron loses in May, he will resign

as Conservative leader. If he does resign as Conservative leader, do we

assume Boris will throw his hat in the ring, as night follow day, and

who will be the other candidates? Well, Boris has promised that he

wouldn't do that, but he has broken promises before. I would expect he

would break this one. You say I'm on message today. I'm not sure, because

I think if the Conservative Party lose the next election, all hell is

going to break loose within the party. It will be chaos and it'll go

on for years. Would it be possible, do you think, for someone to become

leader of this post-defeat Conservative Party, we are

hypothesising, who was in favour of staying in the European Union? I

think it would be possible for someone who pretended they were

against Europe, but weren't really. And that might be somebody like

Boris. I think in defeat the Conservative Party would be looking

for reassurance and something colourful. So it would be either be

somebody from the right of the party or it would be Boris Johnson. In

defeat is there not a danger of a reverse takeover by Nigel Farage?

Yes. You say yes. In victory, too, Europe is going to be a massive,

massive problem for Cameron to manage. Funny enough, I think in

defeat it becomes - as Matthew said - all hell breaks loose but it

becomes in a less pressurised context than in government, where he

has to deliver a renegotiation that will appeal to enough of his party.

Let's start with his parliamentary party. I can't see how he does that.

So Europe will remain an issue for this party. A huge issue, in power

or out. And whether a new leader this party. A huge issue, in power

come in on a manifesto which says staying in Europe is their

preferable option is an interesting question. I suspect they can,

because I think defeat will be traumatic and will lead to an

introspection which might not necessarily head towards Farage. If

it is defeat, this will be an even more eurosceptic party. Hold that

thought. I have been told that the Mayor of London has finally made it

to the stage. And there he is in the hall. Going to the podium. Let's

hear from Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London.

Good morning everybody. Thank you for that lovely introduction. Can I

just say, not only is Tanya going to be a fantastic MP, but she will do

this country the service of removing Vince Cable from Parliament, which

is a wonderful -- a wonderful thing to be doing. It is fantastic to be

here in Birmingham, everybody but before I go any further, I just want

to check one thing. I want to check - is everybody here? Are we all

here, by in large, proud Conservatives? Yes. Are we proud of

the oldest and most successful party in all western democracies? Yes Do

we intend to fight the next election under the Conservative banner and no

other? Yes. Are there any defectors here? No. Are there any quitters or

splitters? No Anybody silly being yellow around the edges, like a

kipper? LAUGHTER If I can quote a great Midlands' author "He wish hath

no stomach to the fight, let him depart." He was from Midlands but of

course came to London. Indeed - if she has no stomach let her depart I

think this is a fantastic time to be a Conservative. I think in the last

few weeks, particularly last week, we have seen the beginning of the

end tap owe ka-consensus that Ed Miliband could get into power by

pandering to his core vote and relying on the gross unfairness of

the electoral system. The chattering classes are waking up to the reality

that victory is within our grasp, in the next eight months and I think

last week in Manchester, you saw the final explosion of the myth that

Labour is doomed to success. Because... LAUGHTER. In setting out

what should have been his programme to the country, the Labour Leader

gave a surreal speech in which he described how he tried to find

material by randomly accosting young people in London parks, desperately

hoping for inspiration And yet, he failed in all of this, to mention

the economy. As George rightly pointed out the other day. My

friends, it can only be called a Freuden slip. His subspshes

rebelled. The baggage handlers in his memory went on strike. As indeed

they would... APPLAUSE

As indeed they woop under a Labour -- as indeed they would under a

Labour Government And they refused to load the word "deficit" on to the

conveyor belt of his tongue. On the central question of politics, he

knows it is we Conservatives who are taking the country forward and

Labour would take us back to the Brown/Blair slash Balls/Miliband

regime that difficult gave us the worst recession for 100 years. We

don't want to go back, do we? Things are going well for our country and

on the verge of getting better. People will object to me saying

this, I'm just the tow rag Mayor of London where things are supposed to

be so different indeed. I noticed over the recent months of the

campaign in Scotland there was a slight noe note of not just

Anglo-phobia but London phobia by some of the friends in the Scottish

National Party, a suggestion that Londoners were politically, cultural

and economically divorced from the rest of the country and to listen to

some of the London bashing, you might think that our capital was a

modern Babylon, with billionaires being plied with hot towels on the

top deck club class of their swanky new buses or guzzling pearls

dissolved in Srinagar. -- VIP egar, while lolling back on the padded

cushions of their Barclay's hire bikes.

APPLAUSE. AND WHILST I REJECT THIS RUBBISH, I

WOULD HAVE TO admit one of the rain reasons why I don't want this

country to lurch back it Labour, is that the current story of London is

one of amazing success. And success that in so many ways helps everybody

in the City, as Theresa May has just said, getting crime down, which is

of such moneyed fennel importance to everybody throughout our city. We

have a murder rate reduced by roughly 50% over the last six years,

to pick a period at entirely random. And we have bus crime down by about

40%, which obviously not crime-committed by bus, which is

very rare indeed now but crime committed on buses. I echo much of

what Teresa said and I would like to pay tribute to the thousands of men

and women of the Metropolitan Police who work to bring crime down in our

city and I think they are doing absolutely a fantastic job.

APPLAUSE If you press me, I would admit that

we are going through an unprecedented era of improvement in

our transport line, the Victoria line faster, the Jubilee line

faster, delays on the tube down 40%, air conditioning coming in even on

the deep tube, crossrail on time, on budget, a monumental feat of British

engineering. And next year, under a Conservative mayor, we will be

taking the Northern line through the Battersea, the first time anyone has

put together enough drive it finance to build a role where in London

since the days of Margaret Thatcher. -- a railway in London. George is

underwriting it, but if you pull my toenails out, I would confess to you

that post-Olympic London is the most popular and most successful city on

earth. We had 16.9 million tourist visitors last year, knocking Paris

off the number one spot. We are building a superb garden bridge in

the middle of the city, doing fantastic things in the Olympic

Park, I could go on and on. My point to you today is that if someone

tells you that that means London is somehow different from the rest of

the country, and above all, if they try to imply that what happens in

London is irrelevant to the economic fortunes of our nation, then I would

respectfully tell them that they are talking through the back of their

net. At this conference, we can say with pride that London remains not

just the capital of England but, thanks to the wisdom of a clear

majority of Scott, it is the capital of Britain and the capital of the

United Kingdom. APPLAUSE

And will, I believe, remain so for our lifetimes. You have permission

to purr if you so choose, Dave. APPLAUSE

When the great flywheel of the London economy turns, it drives the

vast and intricately connected locomotives that is the British

economy. You have heard in the past how I have talked about the impact

of London transport contracts on the rest of the economy, investing

billions on vehicles from Liverpool and Ballymena. You have heard me

point out that there would be no financial services industry in

Edinburgh if it was not for London, and now let me give you a yet more

concrete and yet more substantial, tangible example. Behold this

brick. It was given to me yesterday in Newcastle under Lyme. A

constituency where we Conservatives - I won't throw it - a constituency

where we may well win, and they have built a factory which only started

last year and is being propelled by the positive benefits of help to

buy, and is capable of making 80 million of these objects per year.

APPLAUSE And if you want to know why that

factory is starting to hire people and fire bricks in huge numbers,

look at the skyline of London sprouting with extraordinary growth

like a speeded up David Attenborough nature film about the return of

spring to the Canadian tundra, and that was why Ed Miliband was silent

on the key issue facing our country. That was why his son conscious opts

to him and implored him not to mention the economy. -- his

subconscious. The difference between us and Labour is that they talk and

we do. APPLAUSE

As Ed Miliband's great hero Engels almost put it, and outs of Tory

action is worth a tonne of Labour fury. What is the answer to our

housing problem? Is it to put a new tax on housing? Punishing those who

have worked hard for years to pay their mortgages and hope to pass on

something to their children? Is that the right way forward? Or is it to

do what all great Conservative administrations have done over the

last 100 years, and to build homes that people need? And to help them

onto the property ladder. And I am proud to say that in London it is

not just that we have enabled to build more affordable homes in the

recession than Labour ever did in the boom, and we will get up to over

100,000 soon. We are building places with gardens, decent room sizes. And

I look at the 38 post-industrial Brownfield opportunity areas across

the city and I see space to build hundreds of thousands, 400,000

perhaps more without getting anywhere near the green belt, and I

want those homes marketed first. And sold first, the people from this

country, and people from London, and not necessarily to oligarchs from

the planet Zog. But I want to reassure you that I am very far from

Zoggist, and most of my ancestors came from Zog. But that is the

challenge, to build more homes. We will need 1 billion of these

bricks. Brick, you will not be alone. He will not be alone when he

comes to London. And that is a lot of work.

APPLAUSE That is a lot of work for factories

in the Midlands. And there are pipes, bathrooms, the whole

caboodle. And those businesses are not just supporting the London

economy. They are exported around the world. And I have been around a

bit, and I have seen a tie factory where they are taking on more

workers to satisfy the demand for common cummerbunds in China. And a

factory making chillies and working with the Indian government to supply

weapons strength chillies from Wiltshire for crowd control and

managing riots. Isn't that amazing? I have tried it. Believe me, they

will be begging for water cannon! Everywhere I go, I see new ideas in

this country, new businesses starting up and a new conference.

And what is the best way to support those start-ups? What is the best

way of giving hope, not just the kids coming onto the job market but

people in their 40s and 50s who have been hit by the recession, people

who may be coming onto the job market in their 50s, like me. Is it

more regulation? Is that the answer? Is it higher income taxes as

Ed Balls once, for anyone earning more than ?26,000? One of those

Labour policies that Ed Miliband mysteriously wiped from his data

banks as he stood up to speak. Do you think for one second that Labour

is going to help those companies to grow or take on more staff or be

more ambitious? Of course they won't. For 200 years, our party has

been the party that believes in social justice, in managing and

mitigating the worst effects of the free market. We believe that you

have got to go that way. We believe we are the best answered inequality,

opportunity. We believe in in courage and success, not punishing

it. We believe in wealth creation, not constant levelling down. And we

believe that for all its defects, the free market is the best means we

have yet found for satisfying the wants of humanity. And that is why

all of our policies are aimed at getting people into work, creating

250,000 apprenticeships, as we are doing in London, or as we will have

done, aiming for 3 million across the country? Nod the Prime Minister.

And willing people to work hard, they get up early, they do the 24/7

jobs that make London the capital of the world. We Conservatives believe

that they should be decently paid, and that is why I am so proud of

what we have done with the London living wage, now paid by...

APPLAUSE It is now paid by about 408 firms, a

1200% increase on what Labour ever achieved when they were in office,

putting almost ?100 million into the pockets of the poorest families in

London. Not by compulsion, not by legislation, not by coercion, not by

negotiation with Len McCluskey, but by simply showing companies that it

is the right thing to do, not just for their employees but for those

companies themselves, because, believe me, that investment in their

people shows up in the bottom line, in lower HR bills, less absenteeism,

higher productivity, loyalty, commitment. That is the Conservative

approach. Cutting taxes wherever we can, managing our responsibilities

as we have done in London. Governing economically and responsibly to let

people on low incomes keep more of what they earn, as this Government

has done, reducing the burdens on business that create the wealth we

need. And the last thing we need is more regulation from Brussels,

folks. And in common with many other people around the Yukon I want

reform not just of the CAB that costs every family ?400 per year in

food costs, not just of the common fisheries policy, I want to change

the whole mentality that pervades the Brussels commission, and that

tells us, tells them that they can decide how powerful our vacuum

cleaners should be, a point on which I will not elaborate. There is only

one leader in Europe who can deliver that reform. One man who has the

experience and the respect in Europe to make the case, and then take that

case to the people of this country in the in/out referendum that we

have been denied for 40 years. And that man is not Salmond or Clegg or

Farage, because not one of the will give us a referendum. That man is

David Cameron. APPLAUSE

The man who has the natural authority around that table in

Brussels that goes with the leadership of the fastest-growing

economy. And that is the man who is going to lead our country into 2015

and beyond, my friends. APPLAUSE

That's our new fisheries policy that we need. First chuck Salmond

overboard. He then, then eat the kippers for breakfast.

We will fight them on the beaches of Clacton, won't we? And we'll fight

them and defeat them on the beaches of Rochester and Strood as well.

While we are on the subject of constitutional common sense I want

it end the nonsense and I'm sure you all want to, that allows Labour MPs

to sit in Parliament and vote on English matters when they have no

corresponding powers in Scot lands and those Scottish MPs have no say

in those matters in so far might affect their own constituents. David

Cameron is the only leader to pledge to sort out that anomaly. I was

looking at the way the London economy is developing. We now export

more music to America than we import. Which is incredible when you

consider the relatively sizes of our economy. The great music trade is

predominantly westward across the Atlantic which is presumably we have

a band called One Direction. There is a joke there somewhere, anyway. I

don't know if you saw the film, a wonderful film with George Clooney

and Sandra Bullock called Gravity. You see the cowering of the

interstellar projectile going past them like a couple o pensioners

shouldering from Ed Miliband's new property taxes. Where did those

asteroids come from? They didn't come from outer space. Each and

every one, manufactured in Soho. Look at the text sector, which

London is now dominant in Europe, much to the irritation, by the way

Angela Merkel, who can see that we are taking off now in the 21st

century industries that are going to matter to all Western economies. We

lead in biotech, fin tech, nano-tech, green tech, tech. And all

types of tech. And that affect - that cluster of energy and

enterprise in London has now long-since spread over the last few

years. You can see it all over the country, spreading into Birmingham,

to Manchester. Every other great city. Just as the canal that I ran

or rather to thorred along this morning, is part of the same great

interconnected body of water, that flows right past my house in

Islington, fancy that, exactly the same. All joined up. That's the

strength and diversity of the London economy, shared with the rest of the

UK. And it is not, by the way, just in tech and media and culture and

creativity. It is also in manufacturing. I think I'm right in

saying - we are on the verge of - that's why Angela Merkel is so worry

about our tech success, because we are on the verge of doing so well in

the old metal-bashing industries as well. We are on the verge of

becoming I think the second-biggest car manufacturer in Europe. An

astounding thing to have achieved for this country, when you consider

where we were in the 1970s. APPLAUSE

And, let me conclude by saying, that if you go out for an evening in Las

Vegas, if you are lucky to go out for an evening in Las Vegas, as so

many bright young British people do, and have a wonderful time and you

missed the last - you know, somehow or other you lose your bearings, and

you wake up with a thundering hangover - you know. It is going to

happen in Las Vegas. And you find yourself sheltering under the anding

of a bus stop. -- under a the awning. Suppose you missed the last

limo home and have to caught a bus, which is possible in Las Vegas. Do

you know, the chances are, that that bus stop will be made in London.

And that busstop, I am proud to say, is very likely to have been made,

not just in London, but in the London borough of Hillingdon. A

borough I hope, very much, to represent in Parliament next year.

APPLAUSE And I want to thank... APPLAUSE

I want to thank the organisers of this conference of giving me quite

so much time to a mere prospective parliamentary candidate for Uxbridge

and South Ruislip. And as I look ahead, folks, I can see only one

obstacle that we have to clear in the next few years and that is the

threat of a Labour Government next year. So, let us unite now. Let's

get together. Let's get the whole Conservative family together and

take the fight to the unrepentant unreconstructed semi Marxist mill

and Balls and their plan to take this country back to the policies

that led us to disaster last time. -- Miliband and Balls.

And let's be proud of our party and what we have done. When people doubt

us and our intentions, let's explain again and again our fundamental

Conservative insight that it is only by encouraging and enabling wealth

creation that we can hope, as a nation, to protect the vulnerable

and the needy and deliver the social justice, in which we believe. And,

if we can get over that simultaneous message of hope, and enterprise, the

real one-nation message, then I have no doubt that we can win in 2015.

And win big. APPLAUSE So let's leave Ed Balls to

his football practice or whatever he gets up to. Let's leave Ed Miliband

to master the art of a bacon sarnie. Let's leave the Clegger, old Nick

Clegg to get on with whatever it is that he does, which I haven't quite

discovered. Let us Conservatives get on with our work of unleashing the

talents of the people of this country, and the most dynamic

economy in Europe. Thank you very much for listening to me and see you

at the barricades. Thank you. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

The Prime Minister made sure he was first to his feet there as Boris

Johnson came to the end of his remarks. Mr Cameron always likes to

be seen to be enjoying Boris Johnson's speech. I'm sure he does -

perhaps. Anyway, Mr Johnson followed the Home

Secretary, Theresa May. She gave us a very sombre speech about the

terrorist threat. Mr Johnson was more in character with the more

barnstorming approach. You can see he filled the hall there. Clint

Eastwood once spoke to a chair at a republic convention and Boris

Johnson at a Conservative Party Conference today spoke to a brick. I

guess, if you can do one, you can do the other. We are joined by a couple

of Tory MPs. We'll talk about Europe in a minute.

Let's talk about Boris. Is he the future leader of your party? He is

obviously one of the runners and riders but I'm not sure we are

planning to change our leader for sometime. We are going to win the

election and David Cameron will be the Prime Minister. If it did come

to changing leader, would you consider him kindly? I would

consider all the candidates. I understand that, but would you

consider him kindly? I would consider all the candidates very

kindly, Andrew. You would? Yes. What about you? I think we've got A, a

very good leader now and a lot of very good potential future leaders,

including Boris. Including Boris? Is he on your side on Europe, do you

think? I'm not sure. I think he very much sees the benefits of being in

the European Union, but like me and most members of the country he wants

to see changes in the way we do business with Europe and the way

Europe does business with us. Is he on your side? I attended a very good

fringe meeting yesterday which was also address bid Gerard Lions the

economist. He has produced this very comprehensive document about the

City of London and our future in Europe. He says, quite rightly, that

we have great opportunities outside the European Union, as well as

within the European Union but we have to get the relationship with

the European Union right. Let's stick with Europe. Jeremy here quite

likes the EU, Bernard, not so much. What about the party faithful here

in Birmingham? Here is our Giles. If there's one issue that the Tories

feel very passionately about, one issue that divides them more

than any other and one issue that some party strategists wish would

just go away - it's Europe. David Cameron is going to offer

a referendum "in/out" in 2017. There are a huge mix of views

in the Conservative Party. But I think there is

a general assumption that If you had a referendum right now,

in or out? We should be in the European Union,

I strongly believe that. It does need a lot of reform,

don't get me wrong, absolutely. We can't have the uncertainty,

business needs to know, in or out, but and we should stay in

as a result. Obviously in Government but

but out of the EU. My instinct is that we're very

likely to be out, unless the Prime Minister can pull

something real good out You are allowed one vote

and one ball. Well, it's got to be out, guys,

there you go. Because we are fed up with

people running our country. We want to have employment laws that

make us the fastest-growing place and the biggest GDP, growing

in the whole of the Western world. You sound awfully

like people I met in Doncaster? Well, Doncaster is

an awfully nice place but South Derbyshire is good enough for me

and it is staying Tory, thank you. Most of

the Tories that were out have left It is surprising to me, that

there are a remainder still out. But the box doesn't lie.

No Secretary of State playing ball. I personally benefited from the EU

from programmes, for example, I have lived in France

for many years and I think we are stronger to be part of something

bigger in a globalised world. I'm out personally under

the current terms. I think we should be a global power,

not just confined to a European We should have

a free trade agreement with the European and actually expand

and let's trade with the world. They don't like this one,

it scares them. When I was 11 I was

a eurosceptic and now I'm not. A little bit early

but then I got a little bit more... I think there is always a few people

that just don't quite understand. What they don't understand is we

have won the argument on Europe. It is a crucial thing to take place,

it'll affect our country Really complex detailed

negotiations to take place. You've got to listen to that, see

what the arguments are, see how it The moodbox never

ceases to surprise. Very early on, out was well ahead,

well ahead and then, suddenly, Now, some people were

so surprised by that, One solution seems to be -

lots of Tories who used to be out There we go, 150/150. Bernard Jenkin

s it your view that the Prime Minister can recat patriot enough

powers to satisfy you? Well, he wants us to be anp independent

nation state with trade and can he operation with our European

partners. He doesn't want to be in a superstate, banking or monetary

union. Unfortunately the treaties don't provide for that relationship

at the moment. We need very substantial changes it the treaties

in order to maintain that relationship. Do I think we can

obtain that within the European Union? I have my doubts. And if he

didn't achieve that, or if it proved impossible to get these changes to

the treaties, would you vote to come out? Well, then I think the

negotiation would turn into something different. The negotiation

would be a negotiation about what relationship we would be having with

our European partners from outside the treaty. So, by the time the

referendum actually came, if the Prime Minister was recommending for

us to leave, he would have a clear policy and clear direction to

explain how that was going to work, as Gerard Lions put in his document,

for example. Do you think, it is conceivable that the Prime Minister

would campaign to leave? I'm not sure whether it is conceivable. I

would hope we won't get to that police at all. I would hope we have

a clear renegotiation that the Prime Minister would be able to for and we

would be able to, as a party, saying we are campaigning... It is not

going as far as Bernard Jenkins wants, isn't it? We would still be

part of the CAP and common fisheries policy. There will still be free

movement of peoples. That's not going to be renegotiated. That

doesn't sound like a new relationships I think it is possible

to renegotiate a new relationship on some of those things. We have seen

negotiation of the Common Fisheries Policy under this government. We

need to present to the British people a real vision of what it is

like to be in and out of the European Union. Let's see all the

positive things about it and neglectivities things and let the

British people make up their own mind. What are the positive things?

A high degree of cooperation. Free movement of good and services. And

people? ? I'm personally rather in favour of immigration. I think what

poisons the debate is being unable to control and decide who comes in

and out of our own country. I think we need to get back the control of

free movement of people. You would vote to stay in, even if there isn't

a renegotiation, correct? On balance, I probably would. I believe

the European Union brings great benefits to Britain, as well as

having these problems we need to deal with. But I think it is well

worth going through this and making sure we put the decision to the

British people. It has to be the British people who make the

decision. It sounds like you would vote to leave or have a totally new

relationship unless there is major repatriation. This is what we would

call a divided party. As you saw from the walls tumbling

into the boxes, there are two views. And David Cameron was very frank

that people should be able to vote whichever way they want a

referendum. At what we need is a mandate on the direction that the

Prime Minister is to take. We need a mandate for the kind of direction. I

am sure we will be discussing that in the run-up to the election. We're

joined now by Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond. Lots of important

things to talk about. How many sorties has the RAF launched? I

think they are running about two a day. And family bombs they dropped?

They have not yet attacked a target. Why not? There is a process going on

of gathering intelligence surveillance data, synthesising

that, establishing pattern of life. When we do release our weapons, we

have to be absolutely sure that they are against ISIL targets, that they

are not go to kill innocent Sunni Muslims civilians in areas occupied

by ISIL, otherwise we have the opposite effect than that wished.

But they did reconnaissance before. It is a military process now.

Parliament has made its decision. We have authorised the RAF to go ahead,

and they are doing what they do superbly well. If there is an air

force in the world that can carry out this task while minimising the

risk of civilian casualties and the risk of collateral damage, the RAF

is the air force. Islamic State is now on the outskirts of Baghdad and

is close to taking Kobani. I'm not sure about the information about the

outskirts of Baghdad and whether that is correct. I think it is

Baghdad province, not Baghdad city. They are not that close. They have

swept up 200 villages in the past 14 days. Baghdad is well defended, and

we're confident about that. We won't be panicked into dropping bombs all

over the place. We have to make sure that we identify the enemy, monitor

their movements so that we know where they are, and then we attacked

precisely at the targets. But do we really have the capabilities to do

this. How many combat squadrons did we have won the first Gulf war broke

out in 1991? I can't answer the question. We have 30. How many do we

have now? It depends on your definition of a combat squad. We

have 120 typhoon aircraft and 40 Tornadoes. You have seven. I am not

going to play this game that you have been playing over the last

week. This is relevant. There is nobody who knows anything about air

power who is suggesting that the French air force is a more

formidable force than the RAF. It is not just about how many formations

you have. It is about the training of your people, the capability of

York were mad, the structure in the organisation, and the RAAF is a

formidable force. The Tornado is the only plane we have that can do this

position bombing, so why are we scrapping the squadron next year?

Because in 2019 we will phase out the Tornado. In 2018, we will have

the F 35 coming into service, and between now and 2019, we will be

integrating the air to ground weapons that are currently on the

tornado and the Brimstone onto our Typhoon force, so it will become a

genuine multirole aircraft with a grand capability, and the new joint

strike fighter with its stealth characteristics, the F 35, will

augment and supplements that. They keep on blowing up at the moment.

The Prime Minister had to delay the scrapping of the tornado during the

Libyan air raids, and are we going to do the same again? We have enough

Tornadoes to carry out the task. We have enough Tornadoes to go on.

Explained to me. Keeping the 2 squadron, you say we can't afford

that, but we have a budget of ?10 billion a year. We have a

complicated restructuring programme to draw down all the equipment that

is becoming obsolete and replace it with new state-of-the-art equipment.

I have seen no reason why we would want to change that plan or disrupt

that plan. There is certainly no reason on the basis of the campaign

that we have undertaken to take parting in Iraq. We can do that with

the tornado capability that we have got. And by the way, I am not the

Defence Secretary. You were, and is Foreign Secretary you deploy the

defences. Would an attack on Syria Beagle? There is advised that there

is a credible legal basis for collective self defence. So why have

we not included Syria in our attack? Because the was to support

the Iraqi government with air strikes in Iraq. We haven't ruled

out the possibility. Do you think it is likely that the air war will

extend to Syria? We will look at the case for extending British activity

into Syria. We will look at whether there are things that we could do

that would significantly augment the coalition campaign. If we think

there are, we will go back to Parliament, because we will need

additional support from Parliament. We go back to Parliament and get

parliamentary agreement. And I think the message that we heard from the

opposition and from many members across the house last Friday was

that the house is open-minded about the case. But they would want to

hear the argument. Do you regret making it known the IS at you didn't

know where the hostages were being kept? No. Would it not be the case

that IS shouldn't know whether we know or not? I think they could

probably work out that we don't know or we would have done some then. I

made that comment over two weeks ago, and situations can change. But

don't you regret making it? IS shouldn't know whether we know or

not. I don't particularly regret making it. I tend to think that the

best answer the question is the truth. Where will the boots on the

ground, from? In Iraq, the Iraqi security forces, which are

substantial in size and well equipped with modern American

equipment, and the Kurdish Peshmerga. The Iraqi security forces

have good equipment but poor morale, and they need restructuring and

retraining. The Peshmerga have good morale and good command, but poor

levels of equipment, they need re-gripping. 45 element is from

Baghdad in an Iraqi army camp, it was surrounded by IS, it was clearly

losing, it was a camp full of Iraqi soldiers. They called their

commanders in Baghdad for air support. The phone wasn't even

answered. IS sent in a truck, a suicide truck, 500 soldiers were

killed, and when they got there, they discovered that the Iraqi

commanders had fled days before and that the Iraqi soldiers had been

drinking saltwater. That is your boots on the ground. You give an

example of poor command and poor morale and organisation in the Iraqi

army. I could spend the rest of the afternoon giving you more examples.

We are absolutely aware that after years of sectarian management of the

Iraqi army, promoting people because of what religious faction they

belong to rather than because of their capabilities, there is a need

for restructuring and retraining. How long is that going to take? It

will take as long as it takes. At we spend liens training this army, and

it ran away. The Americans spent a large amount of money training and

equipping the Iraqi army, but under the al-Maliki regime, the policy is

damaged and degraded it, and we have to rebuild it. We will see. Can I

move to Hong Kong, where as part of the agreement which was implemented

in 1997, Britain is a guarantor of the autonomy that was agreed for the

people of Hong Kong. Why have we not taken a stronger line condemning

what is happening there, and the way that the protesters are being

treated? We do deplore what is going on in Hong Kong at the moment, the

violence on the streets. The sequence of events here is that the

Chinese government has announced proposals for the selection of

candidates, for the first selection of chief executive on universal

suffrage, the first election ever. It was part of the agreement. It

wasn't. It was something the Chinese introduced after the joint

declaration was signed. That is a good step forward. There are many

people in Hong Kong who were disappointed with the announcement

that came from Beijing around the way in which candidates would be

approved for this universal suffrage election. There is now a period in

which there is consultation going on, and we have not yet reached the

final stage of this. So there is everything to play for here in

getting the most democratic possible solution. Have you made the British

view strongly known to the Chinese? I have. I met the vice president in

Derby two weekends ago, and I had a very frank discussion with him about

these issues. And is it not somewhat ironic that we the British are a

guarantors of the freedoms of the Hong Kong people, and yet the tear

gas that is being used to suppress them is made in Hampshire? CS gas is

a riot control... Which is made here and exported to Hong Kong. We do not

condone the use of CS gas against these protesters, but it is a

legitimate export product. Would you like to look again at the export

licence? We would like to see a peaceful resolution of the current

dispute in Hong Kong, with the hope that over the next few months, we

can achieve the very best possible solution for Hong Kong, and a clear

statement that what happened on the 2017 Chief Executive election will

not be the end of the road to democracy. Further steps will be

needed. But you will see the irony or indeed the shame of people who we

are legally guarantors of their freedom, and are meant to sure this

deal is kept to, being tear-gassed by CS made in Britain and export

licence. CS gas is available from large numbers of sources. To be

frank, Andrew, I think that is a rather immaterial point. They could

by CS gas from the US, dozens of cases. They can buy any kind of

weapons for anybody, does that mean we should provide them? We don't

condone the use of CS gas in the control of these processes. I don't

think I can be any clearer than that. Thank you for being with us. I

know it is a busy day for you. That is it for today, but Jo and I will

be back tomorrow at 11am for live coverage of David Cameron's speech

to the Conservative party conference, his final conference

speech before the general election, Seppi will be wanting to send them

away from Birmingham with a spring in their step. Let's see if he could

do it. And for a full round-up of events here in Birmingham, I will be

back just after Newsnight tonight on BBC Two with Today at Conference.

How could you miss that? Goodbye. Ladies and gentlemen,

we have liftoff. QI is back with a series all about L,

so loosen up your laughing gear,