Browse content similar to 23/02/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
The Prime Minister is on the road trying to sell his EU vision | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
to the public, while back here at Westminster his party | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
is firmly split over whether Britain should stay in or go out. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Big business has come to David Cameron's aid this morning, | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
with a third of the 100 biggest companies listed on the Stock | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
Exchange warning of the dangers of leaving. | :01:01. | :01:01. | |
But who do they represent, and what happened to the other two | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
As the UK and Scottish governments wrangle over a deal on funding, | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
we'll be talking to Labour's Scottish leader, | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
Kezia Dugdale, about her plans to raise income tax. | :01:13. | :01:21. | |
And then we're going to Washington, DC to take back the White House. | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
As the race to become US presidential candidate continues | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
to confound expectations, we'll hear from this man who nearly | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
made it to the race to the White House. | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
And MPs are dishing up a warning that the UK is in the grip | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
of a curry crisis - are immigration rules to blame | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
Regular viewers will remember a few weeks ago we were joined | :01:43. | :01:55. | |
by the Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson as our | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
Well, if you thought she had a tricky task ahead in this Scottish | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
election year, today I'm joined by a woman | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
of the toughest jobs in British politics - | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
Zia Dugdale. Kes da Dugdale. Kezmania Dugdale. Dugdale There are | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
a lot She's the leader of | :02:13. | :02:21. | |
the Scottish Labour Party So the btirf Conservative truce over | :02:22. | :02:22. | |
the referendum on our membership of the EU is well and truly over, | :02:23. | :02:36. | |
with many of this morning's papers focusing on the widening division | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
between MPs and the cabinet over Labour is relatively united | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
when it comes to Europe, but not so much on the tricky | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
issue of the Trident The latest party policy hearing | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
on whether to replace it takes place this afternoon, and two former | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Labour defence secretaries - George Robertson and John Hutton - | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
have written an article saying that Labour's defence review | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
is "sliding into chaos". Is that how you see it? Not at all. | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
There is no doubt a mixture of positions in the Labour Party on | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
Trident. I inherited that when I became leader of the Scottish Labour | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
Party, in my approach, to have a healthy democratic debate within the | :03:14. | :03:15. | |
Scottish Labour Party. We devoted a day at our party conference in | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
October for the party to get into the nuts and bolts of this and | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
resolved that the position of the Scottish Labour Party was not to | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
renew Trident and every penny than could be saved from that should be | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
used to protect and invest in jobs in the communities affected in | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
Scotland. But that's in the your shoe, is it? I'm a multilateralist I | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
recognise on an issue that's complex, the way to deal with is a | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
healthy, democratic way. Do you want to have Trident renewed or not? | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Everybody in the Labour Party is union nighted around seeing a world | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
free from nuclear weapons. It is about the best way to do that. I'm a | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
multi-naturalist and I'm leading a party which has taken a democratic | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
decision not to renew Trident. That was very healthy, good debate. We | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
have a leader in Scotland, you, and a matter in Scotland that don't | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
agree on this issue and we have Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
Labour Party and his parliamentary party that also don't agree, so, | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
yes, you could call it an understatement to say there is a | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
mixture of views. There is also a mixture of views in the terms of the | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
unions in Scotland and nationally, it is chaos, isn't it? I totally get | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
why there are mixed views across different parts of the party. Part | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
of that is because there is new leadership in Scotland and across | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
the UK. Both Jeremy and I are taking different approaches to resolve | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
this. What is clear from the Scottish Labour position is we | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
oppose the renewal of Trident and we would use any money we save from | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
that to protect the job. That's an honest position when you compare to | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
what the SNP say they would do. They say they would spend the money 12 | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
difference ways, whether in childcare, the NHS, a new army. Will | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
you be making a submission? Scottish Labour will put forward its | :05:03. | :05:03. | |
position. with what she said would be her next | :05:04. | :05:05. | |
election battle bus. At the end of the show, | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
Kezia will give us The Prime Minister has been visiting | :05:13. | :05:27. | |
a business in where he's been hammering | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
home his message that a vote to leave the EU represents | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
a leap in the dark. And that message has been echoed | :05:38. | :05:48. | |
by leaders of some of Britain's largest companies, who warn leaving | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
would threaten jobs and put was signed by almost | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
200 business chiefs, including the bosses of Airbus, | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
HSBC and Marks Spencer. Together they employ more | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
than 1 million people. They said the PM had secured | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
a commitment from the EU "to reduce the burden of regulation" | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
and to sign off on "crucial The signatories included | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
the chairmen or chief executives of 36 FTSE 100 companies - | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
an index of the largest companies However, campaigners for Britain | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
to leave the EU point out two-thirds of FTSE 100 companies haven't signed | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
- among them major firms They also claim smaller | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
businesses are more sceptical about the advantages | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
of staying in the EU. They have also been critical of | :06:41. | :06:50. | |
number 10's involvement in organising the letter. | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
Well, as I said, David Cameron has been speaking | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
to an audience at a business in Slough this morning. | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
This is a decision, though, that lasts for life. We make this | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
decision and it is probably going to be the only time in our generation | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
when we make this decision. I was determined to make sure the British | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
people had the very best possible decision. So what I have done for | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
the last nine months is to try and sort out some of the things that | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
people are frustrated with, with the European Union. It is not a perfect | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
organisation. No organisation is perfect. David Cameron, there. | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
I'm joined now by Pete Chadha, who runs a technology business | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
and will be campaigning for the UK to leave the EU. | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
And by James McGrowery from the Britain Stronger in Europe group | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
which helped organise the letter. Are you disappointed there weren't | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
more FTSE 100 companies signed up to the letter? Not at all. 36 is a | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
great result. 36 of the biggest companies that employ 1 million | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
people in Britain, 1 million British jobs, all firmly saying we should | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
stay. What happened to the other two-thirds? #w8, some have | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
complicated corporate governance arrangements it would take a long | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
time to sign things off. -- some of them have. I would say at the moment | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
it is 36-0. There is not a single FTSE company coming out saying we | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
should leave. I think it is a spectacular piece of spin to suggest | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
a 36-0 is anything other than a pretty heavy defeat when it comes to | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
this letter, to those wishing to leave the European Union. Is it just | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
playing to fear, telling people it will be treacherous, difficult, if | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
Britain leaves the UK, by saying the economy will be at risk? I think it | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
is project reality, with you, Jo. You know, people who work in these | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
companies, think, want it hear from their bosses, what the impact would | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
be on this massive choice we face as a country. I think it is a perfectly | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
reasonable thing to do to ask people who employ 1 million people in the | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
country what the impact would be on investment, growth, and what the | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
impact will be on jobs and have them state clearly they think for all of | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
those reasons, we are much better off in the European Union. It is a | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
big blow to your campaign because these are very powerful people in | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
the sense they employ an awful lot of people and they have a very big | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
say. Are you saying they are all wrong? I'm saying that they are just | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
playing the card of risk and they are concerned about - you know, the | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
changes that will happen and they have vested interests in keeping us | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
within the EU. Real entrepreneurs like me, out there doing business | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
with the rest of the world, we think we should leave the EU to be master | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
of our own destiny and most smaller business people will say that. | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
People in large corporations don't want the hassle of changing and the | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
stock markets being nervous but Ron-term uks most entrepreneurs, | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
real entrepreneurs who take risks every day with lives, believe it is | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
the right thing. Is that an admission by you that big business | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
will suffer, bigger corporation that employ a lot of people will actually | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
suffer? Absolutely not but they have accountants and risk people saying | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
better the devil you know, than the devil you development real business | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
people out there, the man that uns are JCB and where is James Dyson. | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
Why aren't they signing a letter? I'm in the in charge of a campaign | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
and I'm not responsible for that. All I am is a businessman, providing | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
my views that actually the long term, we will be much more in | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
control of ourselves. They also have vested interest. People like Goldman | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
Sachs and all the other ones, they play Europe for tax reasons. That's | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
the real reason people are not picking up on. It suits them that | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
they can send money through the likes of Luxembourg and Netherlands | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
which the BBC showed a week or two back, they have vested interests in | :10:37. | :10:38. | |
controlling our involvement in Europe. If we were independent, like | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
Singapore, we are a safe haven for money this. Country can could great | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
trade deals with the rest of the world. Isn't that the risk of for | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
your campaign, you are seen as the big business campaign and in numbers | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
terms, when you look at small and medium-sized companies and | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
businesses, that is a large part of the population, involved in running | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
their own businesses and employing small numbers of people and you will | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
be seen as the establishment and vested interests Small businesses | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
are the back bone of the country and employ millions of people in | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
Britain, which ise think it is great there are a load of small business | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
that is have signed the letter. You are making a big deal about the FTSE | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
100 companies. It was the first question you asked, because they are | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
big names. I don't think it is a matter of vested interests for tax | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
reasons, I think they have vested interests, they employ 1 million | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
people, I think it is a pretty important interest for a million | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
families at home and the pay packets that depend on them. They can cope | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
with the red tape that we hear a lot from the leave campaign better than | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
small and medium-sized businesses Look at the survey that is have been | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
done of small businesses. The FSB did one that had more supporting | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
staying in than leaving. I'm not sure it is true. It was an FSB | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
survey. There was a survey last week in Start Up magazine, I put an | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
article there, I have a lot of support for small business who is | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
actually think we should be out. Every businessman knows to be in | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
control of our destiny is what we need to be doing. As a business | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
person we take risks every day. There is going to be upheaval, the | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
markets will complain a bit but long-term... The markets have | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
complained, one of the biggest s that the uncertainty your business | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
can take? I think these are just people playing the markets. Let's be | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
fair. What are the consequences of that? The year or two the euro was | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
?1 to one Europe. The markets are fickle and will always be. We are in | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
a great position. We buy more than we sell to Europe, much more, we are | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
in a great position, like a supermarket negotiating with a | :12:45. | :12:46. | |
farmer, we are in a position of power. It is not a position of | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
Norway and Switzerland. Except those are always the comparisons. I don't | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
think they are valid, we are the largest market. Does this remind | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
you, Kezia of the Scottish referendum battle and business came | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
in quite late in the campaign. Did it help? I think it did. Nibbledly | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
this is an argument about economics. It is about sustainability of our | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
economy, it is about ou we bring jobs to our country and give young | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
people opportunities. You have to remember, the Scottish referendum | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
was two-and-a-half years' long of a campaign, this is a much shorter | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
campaign. Day #1, you see businesses coming out, whereas much later in | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
the Scottish referendum campaign. It is important but it is not the only | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
argument. I think there is a particularly labour case about why | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
we should stay in Europe, swoshgers rights, social rights, protecting | :13:35. | :13:35. | |
maternity and approximate attorneyity leave. But the economy | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
seems to be the main issue here. James, how involved were Downing | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
Street? Did they write this, sign up everybody to it? Did they organise | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
it in the way it has been reported? Tncht has been a joint effort from | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
Britain Stronger in Europe campaign and the Government. -- It has B I | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
don't think it is surprising. David Cameron has gone out to Brussels and | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
come back and he is unambiguous, his position and the Government's | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
position is to stay in the European Union. So it is hardly surprising we | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
talk to businesses, large, medium and small to gain support. The leave | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
campaign are causing number ten and Britain Stronger in Europe of | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
co-ordinating this. Let me tell you, I know personal business people in | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
the UK who will not support the leave "leave" campaign because they | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
want to be on the right side of the Prime Minister but when you talk to | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
day-to-day business, working in Europe, working, they all want to | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
leave. They all want to... If that's true, why have some signed this | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
letter. I have texts on my phone telling me - we won't say so, | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
unless... Publish it. Are you saying businessmen and women don't know | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
their own minds? No, they are dealing, obviously they are dealing | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
with David Cameron from various different angles and they say - we | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
won't go against the Prime Minister. That's exactly the words. These | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
companies employ over 1 million people. I don't think they are | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
saying it to carry... They employ 1 million, I don't think they are | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
doing it to carry favour with one politician or another, this is | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
integral to how they run their business, how they get investment, | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
and create more jobs in the country. If you have all these business | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
people supporting you, let's hear from them and have the debate. I | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
don't think it is good enough to I a cert you have business support when | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
there is a letter with 200 businesses making our case. All | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
right. We will get you both back on I'm sure in the coming weeks. | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
Yesterday, the Prime Minister answered questions in the Commons | :15:30. | :15:31. | |
for three hours as he attempted to sell his package of reforms | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
to Britain's EU membership and make the case for remaining in. | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
Unusually, his biggest critics were behind him on the Conservative | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
benches, while he was frequently cheered by Labour MPs. | :15:40. | :15:41. | |
Let's have a look at some of the debate. | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
We should be clear that this process is not an invitation to rejoin, | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
Sadly, Mr Speaker, I have known a number of couples who have begun | :15:52. | :15:59. | |
divorce proceedings but I do not know of any who have begun divorce | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
proceedings in order to renew their marriage vows. | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
Labour believes the EU is a vital framework for European trade | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
A vote to remain is in the interests of people, not only in what the EU | :16:13. | :16:20. | |
delivers today, but as a framework through which we can achieve | :16:21. | :16:22. | |
Can I ask my right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
to explain to to the House and the country, in exactly what way | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
this deal returns sovereignty over any field of law-making to these | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
This deal brings back some welfare powers. | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
It brings back some immigration powers. | :16:49. | :16:49. | |
Does the Prime Minister have any idea what the consequences would be | :16:50. | :16:57. | |
of Scotland being taken out of the EU against the wish | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
Would the Prime Minister agree with me, that it is also not just | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
about Britain's place in the European Union, | :17:09. | :17:09. | |
but also Britain's place in the world? | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
President Obama has been crystal clear that if Britain were to leave | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
the European Union, it would weaken, not strengthen, | :17:18. | :17:19. | |
The European Union is a failing organisation. | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
A single market that shackles us with regulation that makes | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
An immigration system that is betraying people | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
And not to mention the eurozone, which thank heavens we are not | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
So on the issue of migrants coming to Britain, coming | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
to the United Kingdom, when will they first begin to be | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
Don't tell us that he is going to work it out. | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
Tell us today in this House, when are they first going to become | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
Does he also agree it is not the politics of fear to point out | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
that those who advocate a "no" vote, don't seem to know | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
The Prime Minister has centred much of this | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
Can he tell the House, in in his estimation, | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
how much the welfare changes will reduce immigration from the EU | :18:22. | :18:23. | |
Does he believe we have more influence in the European Union | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
Surely the answer is more influence inside the European Union, | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
That's why I passionately believe we must | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
Joining us now is the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson and Conservative | :18:39. | :18:53. | |
Philip Davies, who have declared for the "out" campaign, | :18:54. | :18:55. | |
and former cabinet minister Ken Clarke, who will campaign | :18:56. | :18:57. | |
No surprise there! And our guest of the day, Kezia Dugdale, is still | :18:58. | :19:07. | |
here and she is also backing and in vote. Let's talk about civility in | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
the Tory party. Many people will have been surprised, including me, | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
to read that the Primus to hug due at last night's 1922 committee. Is | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
that true? It is absolutely true. Why? You'll have to ask him! Who | :19:23. | :19:30. | |
didn't just randomly Gulf and hug you excite group we had a very good | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
meeting of the 1922 committee and we were having a friendly chat on the | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
way out and he just happened to have his arm around my shoulder. People | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
probably took that as a loving hug. I disagree with the Prime Minister | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
on many things, not just this, but we always get on very well and it's | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
never about personalities but about the issue. If I fell out with | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
everybody I disagree with, I wouldn't be speaking to anybody in | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
the Conservative party. There is no need to follow just because we | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
disagree. You say that but there has been a major falling out, clearly | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
demonstrated by David Cameron's comments clearly indirectly directed | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
towards America London, Boris Johnson. Steve Baker, one of your | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
colleagues, reportedly as the prime minister to be kind to Boris Johnson | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
and in the Telegraph today, Woody and hake has urged the Tories to be | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
civil. Will you be civil? I think we will. We are centre-right party and | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
nobody is denying that we don't agree Europe and never have entirely | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
since been in but the Labour Party is a centre-left party and its very | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
divided. The Labour Party rather specialises in disliking each other | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
and they argue, where is the Conservative party has kept itself | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
together. It is a party of government because we don't fall | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
out. Philip and I don't fall out personally and this isn't the only | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
subject we disagree on. William Hague obviously thinks there is a | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
real risk of near civil War. Everybody put pressure on us to try | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
to be more hostile to each other because it makes it more fun if you | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
are trying to keep the campaign because it makes it more fun if you | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
natural party because it makes it more fun if you | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
great thing about the Conservative party is pretty well every | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
Conservative wants to be party is pretty well every | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
government and that makes us realise, apart from the fat we are | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
also quite civilised people who don't fall out with all our | :21:17. | :21:18. | |
also quite civilised people who opponents, that we can behave. I | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
have a lot of friends in the Labour Party and I | :21:23. | :21:24. | |
have a lot of friends in the Labour them. Does it look harmonious from | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
where you're sitting? Not at all. I think it is a huge turn-off for | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
voters and another big turn-off is the complete and utter lack of | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
winning. Where are the female voices? Everything I've heard about | :21:36. | :21:36. | |
the EU referendum debate has voices? Everything I've heard about | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
done by men in suits. Anna Su Breanne Nicky Morgan come to mind. | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
Now the members are campaigning on their own views, they will be quite | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
Now the members are campaigning on forceful. It was dominated by Tory | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
men. It was but the Tory women are not quiet. There is a real danger in | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
this because this is ultimately about a country's future and it's | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
going to be a democratic event in the form of referendum so people | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
have to hear voices that look like and feel like | :22:12. | :22:12. | |
have to hear voices that look like That's why women have to be up | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
before of this. What about your comment, Ken Clarke, that we just | :22:18. | :22:18. | |
played in that film, comment, Ken Clarke, that we just | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
other outers don't actually know comment, Ken Clarke, that we just | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
what a no vote means? That could be comment, Ken Clarke, that we just | :22:25. | :22:25. | |
do vary. comment, Ken Clarke, that we just | :22:26. | :22:34. | |
first referendum and we'll have a second referendum. | :22:35. | :22:35. | |
first referendum and we'll have a that is what he thinks? That's what | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
he's said several times. He is the only person saying that. Other | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
Eurosceptics seem to only person saying that. Other | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
nothing will change apart from the things that they object to, so that | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
all the normal advantages of having access to the market will somehow | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
still carry on and, in fact, there is a set procedure. Once you leave, | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
and we'd have to leave if we vote no, you spent two years negotiating | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
exactly what your future relationship is going to be. Other | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
Europeans won't agree with British Eurosceptics and there will be | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
distinctly restricted access to the single market. Is that how you see | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
it? Do you know in your mind what out means? I certainly do and I'm | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
from the only part of the UK that has a land frontier with another EU | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
member state so we recognise fully the consequences of a decision like | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
this. How would it work? It will work the way it worked before we | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
joined the EU. We will have a common travel area. The Irish Republic is | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
not in Schengen so it will be much the same as it is now and there will | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
be a highlight of cooperation. I don't buy this idea that be you... | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
That we are so dependent on it that we can't live without it. I think we | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
can. And what I want to hear from Ken and others is not these kind of | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
scare tactics and negative campaigning, I want to hear the | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
positive case for what difference this deal will make in terms of | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
actually bringing and delivering the reforms that the European Union | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
needs, not just the UK but many other member states. I haven't heard | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
that. I didn't hear it yesterday from the Prime Minister and I | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
haven't heard it, with respect, from Ken. Do you accept that so far it | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
has been a little like the criticisms during the Scottish | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
referendum, negative, all about the dangers? I think we want to avoid | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
the dangers of the Scottish referendum and the criticism had | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
some foundation, in my opinion. I campaigned up there and I didn't go | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
on just about the fear, although we were right about North Sea oil. Even | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
yesterday, I made the positive campaign first but it was less | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
newsworthy. I actually congratulated... We could influence | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
events like international regulation trade deals and so on. Do you think | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
rest Johnson has overstepped the mark by taking so long to make a | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
decision? Many people felt that being mayor of London he would be an | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
inner, to join the out campaign? Boris attends the Cabinet and the | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
Prime Minister said the rules were that anybody who was in the Cabinet | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
had to wait until he had concluded his negotiations before they could | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
declare their position. As he attends the Cabinet, it seemed to me | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
that it was never be right that he abided by the rules the prime | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
minister set down. Do you think he's overstepped the mark? The Prime | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
Minister was few readers about it and pretty well said so with all the | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
comments about marriage and divorce and ambition. I watched it. He | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
looked furious! He was teasing him with the divorce joke. I think if I | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
was advising Boris, I would say he shouldn't have left it for two or | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
three days so he could be on his own on the Sunday. He did give an | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
ambiguous impression to what he did. Is he really pro-membership or is he | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
not? He is kind of pro if we can get some concessions but, unfortunately, | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
the concessions he wants are just incompatible being members of the | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
EU. Let's think about later. Let's say Britain does vote to leave. What | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
is the position, then, of David Cameron? Is he really then the man | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
to negotiate Britain leaving the EU? I've always thought so. I wrote a | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
letter to him a little while ago saying that if he lost the | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
referendum, I didn't see why he couldn't carry on as prime minister. | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
To you still feel that? What I felt yesterday was that he had sort of | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
thrown his lot in with winning this referendum and if he didn't win, he | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
was going to stand aside. By basically saying, which I understood | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
it, he couldn't negotiate a better deal than Norway has got, even | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
though we are the fifth biggest economy in the world, would indicate | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
to me he doesn't really have much confidence in doing this they go | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
Chez Chez. Is it right to say he is a poor negotiator? That may just be | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
a view he is making at the moment to argue his case but anybody who says | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
they couldn't do a better deal than Norway when we're the fifth biggest | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
economy in the world and we have a ?70 billion a year trade deficit | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
with the EU, if they can't do better than that and they are not fit to | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
hold those negotiations. I've done a lot of negotiating in my time in | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
Northern Ireland and I don't think the Prime Minister should have | :27:29. | :27:30. | |
rushed into this. I don't think the deal he had on the table was enough | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
and I think he should have held out. We've learned from our mistakes in | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
the past, when you rush into things and pushed deals over deadline and | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
you live to regret it. I think it is a rushed deal. We've got this 23rd | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
of June referendum date. Again, we're rushing into that. I respect | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
David Cameron. I think he has the ability to lead this country well. | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
Would he and could he, if he loses, from his perspective, the referendum | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
on June 23, would you still want him negotiating out? He is the prime | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
minister of the UK. Whether he will want to remain to do that, I don't | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
know. Would you want him to remain to do it? The Conservative Party won | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
the election, absolutely. He needs to go in there and do what he can to | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
negotiate the best deal. I just don't think the deal he has at the | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
moment is the best one. It is a matter for the Conservative Party. | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
I've been in a political party that's torn itself apart in the past | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
four stopped I don't think the Conservative Party will do that but | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
as to who reads the situation after the referendum, that's a matter for | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
the Conservative Party. To pick up an Ken Clarke's point about a second | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
referendum that Boris seemed to be flirting with, do you think that if | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
there is a vote for the EU to leave -- the UK to leave the EU, there | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
would be a second referendum in Scotland? The Scottish Parliament | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
elections are a matter of weeks away and when we conclude those, there | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
are seven weeks until the UK EU referendum. So if you believe that | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
it is in Scotland's interest to remain part of the EU and the UK, we | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
have to get on with making a positive case for why that is | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
important. But with the calls be so loud that if Britain left the EU | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
there would have to be a second independence referendum? You hear | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
that call from Nicola Sturgeon every day. But you are there. I think we | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
will move on to questions of currency. Nicola Sturgeon says she | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
wants an independent Scotland to keep the pound. If we were to leave | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
the EU, she would be in a situation where she was arguing for a sterling | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
zone across the UK with Scotland being part of the EU but the rest of | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
the UK not so her currency problems would be as big as they were during | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
the last referendum. There would be a huge amount of unanswered | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
questions for that debate. But you are campaigning on the same side as | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
the SNP when it comes to this referendum. Yes and please to do so. | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
What about the timing issue? Is it a problem? I assume that's why you | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
made your comment about you would have liked a longer lead-in time. In | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales we got important elections in May | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
and that creates a difficulty with the proximity of the referendum | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
coming so soon afterwards. We would have preferred a longer time in | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
which to discuss and debate on these issues but the prime minister has | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
called it. We have to go with the 23rd. We will be there to put our | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
case. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn is doing enough to push the in | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
campaign, to push Labour's remain campaign? We don't really hear very | :30:28. | :30:37. | |
much from him on this. It's day 2 of the campaign. Well he hasn't changed | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
his mind, he is supposedly an enthusiastic supporter according to | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
Hilary Benn. I think there will be time Morientes Labour voices. We | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
need to hear from Alan Johnson, I suspect we will do that, there is a | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
strong Labour case for jobs, opportunities, children. And we have | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
to debate those specifics about why it is good for the UK to stay where | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
we are. Well, it is true, civil war didn't break out on this particular | :31:07. | :31:08. | |
debate. Let's talk now about the race | :31:09. | :31:16. | |
to become candidate for President of the United States, | :31:17. | :31:18. | |
where political outsiders Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders | :31:19. | :31:20. | |
are still causing an upset. It's a contest that | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
can change overnight - and few people know that | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
better than Howard Dean, who ran to be the Democratic | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
candidate back in 2004. He led the field for months | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
but crashed out of a contest that went on to be won by John Kerry, | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
who was then beaten Well, Howard Dean was in London last | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
night speaking to an event at Chatham House, and our Ellie went | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
to meet him. We're going to California | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
and Oregon and Washington and Michigan and then we're | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
going to Washington DC to take back It became known as the | :31:48. | :31:49. | |
"I Have A Scream" speech. Having spent months | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
as a frontrunner, Howard Dean was suddenly seen as being angry, | :31:55. | :31:56. | |
over the top, not really fit to be A month or so later, | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
he withdrew his candidacy. Of course I have some | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
regrets that I lost. How fed up do you get with people | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
like me keep asking about that I came in third in Iowa, | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
and I should have come in first and that's because my campaign | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
had a lot of problems, I don't mind being asked | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
about it, I actually use it First of all, politics | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
is a substitute for war and there is nothing | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
fair about politics. Second of all, if you don't like it, | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
then you shouldn't be running because whatever I got | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
from the media, unfair as it was, and so forth and so on, | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
is nothing compared to sitting across the table from Putin | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
when he wants Alaska back. So if you can't stand the campaign, | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
you certainly shouldn't be 12 years on, Howard Dean | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
is throwing his experience behind another presidential | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
hopeful, Hillary Clinton. I think Hillary's strength is that | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
people know her and know she will do a good job | :33:00. | :33:01. | |
and she knows foreign policy. She is the only person running | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
who knows anything about foreign It doesn't often win elections | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
but given how dangerous a place the world is these days, | :33:08. | :33:15. | |
I think it does matter that she has expertise and she knows | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
what she is doing. But Bernie Sanders, the other | :33:19. | :33:20. | |
Democratic candidate, seems to know what he is doing, too, | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
and is still very much in the race. When the primaries are over, | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
it can be hard to create unity He is a very good politician | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
and in close races it is hard I had to work for about a month | :33:30. | :33:42. | |
to get my people to consider supporting John Kerry | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
when I didn't win, so, you know, it is hard, | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
it is a lot of work. On the other hand, the stakes | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
are enormous, especially given Here is a guy, throwing punches, | :33:53. | :33:54. | |
nasty as hell, screaming at everything else when we are | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
talking and he is walking out, you know the guards are gentle | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
with him, he is walking out like big high fives, smiling, | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
laughing, I would like to punch him in the face, | :34:06. | :34:06. | |
I tell you. He said things that would have | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
killed most politicians And I think that the establishment | :34:10. | :34:11. | |
of the Republican Party But, they may get | :34:12. | :34:20. | |
beaten in this one. He is just a populist | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
and is politically uncorrect is something will happen that | :34:24. | :34:33. | |
nobody will predict. How much have you been following the | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
campaign How much have you been following the | :34:38. | :34:45. | |
Dugdale? Abit. I am trying to work out whether I like those ideas of | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
rallies with the yeha at the end. What do you think about Donald Trump | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
possibly winning the Republican nomination? Utterly frightening. | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
Every country around the world I think will be fearful of that | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
happening. I was pro President Obama last time. I set up a campaign 20 | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
campaign for him. What was it called? Scotland for Obama. How many | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
people signed up? Lots of Americans based in Scotland at universities. | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
So we had a rally in 2007. We had t-shirts. Because we did that | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
through Democrats Abroad we were able it raise money and pass it on. | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
You are not doing the same for Hillary Clinton? I'm a little busy | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
with other things at the moment. Just checking. | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
Now, is the UK in the grip of a curry crisis? | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
partly to blame for migration policies say they're | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
Here's the Labour MP Rupa Huq with her take on an issue | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
Curry's always been on the menu for me in one way or another. | :35:47. | :35:55. | |
My dad had two Indian restaurants at one stage. | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
But whether it's a vindaloo, korma or chicken tikka masala, | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
which the late Robin Cook called our national dish, | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
these great British favourites are now in a fight | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
Two curry houses a week are closing due to a range of factors | :36:09. | :36:21. | |
including rocketing business rates and online delivery services, | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
such as Just Eat, Deliveroo and Hungryhouse, | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
which take a hefty cut, making margins ever smaller. | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
The biggest threat of all is from new immigration rules. | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
From next month, the cost of employing a non-EU chef goes up | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
from ?18,000 to ?35,000, significantly above the UK average | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
Eric Pickles introduced curry colleges, to great fanfare. | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
Not one student has seen this course through to qualification. | :37:00. | :37:10. | |
The new measures will exacerbate existing problems and cause dire | :37:11. | :37:20. | |
staff shortages, adversely affecting the ability of British | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
businesses to bring in skilled chefs from countries such as India, | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
Pakistan and Bangladesh, as well as Turkey and China. | :37:28. | :37:39. | |
The Government needs to think again and relax its restrictions, | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
to allow skilled workers of all types to come here and train. | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
After all, the ethnic food industry contributes billions | :37:46. | :37:47. | |
We need now to save it and head off the coming curry crisis. | :37:48. | :38:02. | |
Rupa Huq is here in the studio now, and the Conservative MP | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
Come back rather than still being here. Is this a crisis, how are you | :38:05. | :38:16. | |
quantifying it? Two curry houses are shutting down each week in the UK? | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
Well crisis is overused in politics. But I think it is something, a wider | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
malaise that hits the high street. So the staples of our high street | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
that we knew as a child have gone. Gone there's no more Woolworths, | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
obviously you can't bring back a dodo if it is extinct but there are | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
things we can do to stop small businesses closing down, so two | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
curry houses but shocking figures about pubs. It is about, as you say, | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
Chinese restaurants, Turkish, kebab joints, they are closing, too. This | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
is really just symptomatic, in your mind of what is happening? You are | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
right, its a sector-wide problem throughout the catering industry. | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
Ethnic catering. I had one that said ?5.5 billion, I heard that last year | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
at Chinese new year, I don't know if this is' Chinese and Indian combined | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
but they contribute to the economy and risk taking entrepreneurs. Why | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
can't they get the chefs they need? A range of factors, some things can | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
he can't do much about. The food prices are rising and against the | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
weak wind it has gone wrong but the thing about immigration, the | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
restrictions on non-EU migrants, they have changed the threshold T | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
used to be you would pay them ?18,000. That has walloped up to | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
?35,000. That surely is I will killing off the industry slowly but | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
surely, it is a very high bar, ?35,000. Why does the Conservatives | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
want to do this? Well, I'm aFreud this is a consequence of being in | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
the EU. The can't Will Government can't control immigration from | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
within the EU, it is having to put -- I'm afraid, it is having to put | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
extra restrictions from people outside the EU so immigration | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
figures don't get phenomenally high. Justifying the wages being paid from | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
?18,000 to ?35,000. The Government are having to clamp down on | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
immigration from outside the EU in anyway it can to make migration | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
figures in anyway manageable. But they are not anyway. But if they | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
didn't have restrictions, migration figures would be even higher. It is | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
reality, isn't it? The only way that the Government can try and tackle, | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
and in this case fail, to bring down net migration figures, is actually | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
trying to make it more difficult for non-EU migrants to come here? There | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
are other imagine in ative things you can do that wouldn't be a burden | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
on the taxpayer -- imaginative. That wouldn't be a cost to the welfare | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
state. You could make temporary visa, maybe for two years maximum, | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
bring people n they have that in America, similar to the Greene card | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
points' system thing that people could come and G it looks like | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
recruitment of the host population, or whatever you call them, the Brits | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
here, people like myself. My dad had two Indian restaurants, but I'm in | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
the going into, that maybe the children of curry house owners don't | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
want to do it. It has relied on subcontinental migration. There were | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
the curry colleges, but they seem to have failed. They were set up by | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
Eric Pickles and didn't do anything. Are they worth trying to reinvent? I | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
don't think we need a state intervention. My constituency is in | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
Bradford. We have massive curry places sane a massive part of my | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
local economy. I have sympathy for the points being made. I don't it | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
needs state intervention. One of my curry houses, the man who runs that | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
has done work with Bradford college trying to train up chefs who live | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
here and giving them the skills in order to do this. I think some of | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
the curry houses and colleges can work together, to skill up people | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
who are already here without needing to bring other people in from around | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
the world. Is it a big problem on your high street? Very much so, I | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
have met with people from the Bangladeshi community in Edinburgh | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
who are anxious about the affect on restaurants in Edinburgh. Of all the | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
sensationalist scare-mongering arguments I have heard in the past | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
few days about why we have to leave the European Union, the idea that | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
the curry is under threat, it is petty... It is It is a fact of | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
immigration, that's why we have more restrictions. There are other things | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
you can do. As part of a manifesto we were going to cut rates for small | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
businesses. This Government doesn't seem to be doing that. What about, | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
though, trying to do something from a Governmental point of view, not to | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
do with immigration. There will be many people who will say - I cannot | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
believe you cannot recruit locally? There must be qualified chefs within | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
the communities like the Bangladeshi community that you can recruit from? | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
There's just not. These are skilled jobs. There is a very strong | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
argument from within the communities about why you have to bring people | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
in to do the jobs. The Tory Government do not have to raise this | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
threshold. It is an active political choice you are making. You can sit | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
there and say you regret it and it is bad for your constituency but | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
your Government is doing this, it is a choice. I have explained why the | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Government have had to restrict immigration from non-EU countries. | :43:11. | :43:12. | |
It is a consequence of open borders from within the EU. You may in the | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
like that argument t may be an inconvenient fact but it is why the | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
Government are restricting non-EU immigration, whether you like it or | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
not Come to the kunchts take decent skilled, jobs, pay the tax, invest | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
in the fabric of society. I don't know what you don't like. These are | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
entrepreneurial, risk-taking people. I want to control immigration from | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
everywhere. If we had controlled immigration from within the EU, the | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
Government could afford to be relaxed about immigration from | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
outside the EU, that's a consequence of wanting to stay within the EU you | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
have to face up to the consequences It is a cheap argument. It might be | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
cheap, it is inconvenient, I appreciate but it is tru. That's why | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
non-EU immigration has been restricted for that single purpose. | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
Shouldn't the Government be doing more to get these people into work, | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
one way or the other, rather than making it more difficult, putting | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
the immigration issue to one side? Well I think we need to try and | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
everybody can help to skill up people who are already in the UK. We | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
have lots of people who are unemployed. We have lots of people | :44:16. | :44:17. | |
from ethic minorities who are unemployed. I think that some of the | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
restaurants and the colleges can work together to develop the skills | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
that people who are already here, have the skills for the future. What | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
is wrong with that? There used to be the possibility of overseas students | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
working at curry houses at weekends. That was taken away by this | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
Government. There are simple things that could be done. Do you people | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
don't want to do it? I think this argument is ridiculous and to use it | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
as a distraction to talk about the European Union, is cheap. What is | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
your favourite curry? Chicken Madras. Chicken tikka McSallia, | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
Robin Cook Madras. Chicken tikka McSallia, | :44:57. | :44:58. | |
dish. What about you? Keala gosh. The deal, or lack of one, | :44:59. | :45:11. | |
centres on how the block grant Brian, I won't ask you about | :45:12. | :45:28. | |
favourite curries. We will talk about the fiscal framework. I like | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
the really gentle ones. Let's get back to the substance of the matter. | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
Are the various parties here preparing their exit strategies | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
before a deal is even done? There's a bit of that going on. There is a | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
bit of blame game going on. Both sides are saying, we will publish | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
the papers as and when the negotiations break down, to show we | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
were in the right. At the moment they are saying they won't give a | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
running commentary on the individual details. John Swinney, the finance | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
secretary at Holyrood, was appearing before MSPs this morning at 8:30am | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
and he said that all other issues, like capital borrowing, the costs of | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
transition issues, the money to be devoted to welfare, all of those | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
were settled. The snag is that the one that remains is the big one, | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
which is how to calculate the money that is reduced from the Westminster | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
block grant to match the new income tax powers proposed for Scotland. | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
You'd think it was simple. You'd think it would be ?1 and income tax | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
and there for you have an extra pound in income tax and you take | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
away ?1 and block grant. But it isn't as simple as that. Do they use | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
an index system, whereby they calculate roughly what Scottish | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
income tax take is expected to be, then match that against population | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
share, much as against changes in the economy, and their four calculi | :46:52. | :46:59. | |
eight -- calculate the settlement? Mr Swinney said there was a | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
discrepancy between the Kaki oceans offered by the Treasury and the | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
Scottish government. When I discussed this with Ruth Davidson it | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
felt like we were right against the deadline and that was a few weeks | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
ago. Here we are and there's still no deal. We are right against it in | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
the sense that the Scottish Parliament will be dissolved on | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
March 23 and they go into the Holyrood elections and that's the | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
end of it. They're not right up against it in the sense that it | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
could then be revisited by a new Scottish Government in talks with | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
the continuing Treasury and they could try then to resurrect it. But | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
the new powers are blocked. They are stalled until this fiscal framework | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
is agreed. OK, it's a Westminster bill, the Scotland bill, but it has | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
to be agreed and endorsed by Hollywood as well and John Swinney | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
says that if there is no deal on the fiscal framework, there is no deal. | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
He will not accept the new tax powers. They could revisit them. Mr | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
Swinney said this morning that would simply be putting off the problem. | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
We said there is a fundamental disagreement between the UK | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
government and the Scottish government and they need to address | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
that, rather than talking about ways round it, of putting it off for | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
delaying. Is Scotland an election footing? Absolutely, very much so. | :48:10. | :48:17. | |
Every parliament everywhere is an footing from one election to the | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
next but they are very much in this mode. You have the SNP apparently | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
riding very high in the opinion polls, you have the other parties | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
trying to pick away at their record and saying it doesn't match the | :48:30. | :48:31. | |
glowing opinion that they apparently have from the voters. Scotland is | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
very much an election footing. Thank you. Kezia Dugdale, what is Scottish | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
Labour doing in terms of the fiscal framework? What, in your mind, can | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
be done to break the logjam? We support Nicola Sturgeon in her aim | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
to get the best deal for Scotland. But what does that look like? It may | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
be a big issue but surely everyone has thought about how much one | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
should be reduced if the other is going to be increased in terms of 12 | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
taxation? I support what the SNP are calling for, per capita indexation. | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
If Scotland can't control its immigration, how may people there | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
are in the country, and we grow at a slower rate in the rest of the UK, | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
we shouldn't be punished for that. No detriment principle is really | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
important. It's not just about today but about five-years' time. I | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
support her right and her goal to get the best possible deal for | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
Scotland. And you'd be prepared to see this collapse to see the talks | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
collapse, to see further devolved powers come to Scotland on the basis | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
of this, you don't get what you say you share with Nicola Sturgeon? I | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
want the best possible deal but there must be a deal. So you are | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
prepared to make a compromise? I didn't say that. I would really like | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
to see a deal before the Scottish Parliament elections because I for | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
one would like to advocate how to use these new tax and welfare powers | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
in Labour's manifesto for the next parliament but of its possible to do | :49:56. | :49:57. | |
that before Parliament dissolves, I would like all the parties to get | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
round the table, keep talking right up until polling day. Nobody should | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
walk away from this to go Chez Chez. We must get the best possible deal | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
for Scotland. It's great to see the SNP arguing to retain the Barnett | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
formula. This is about redistributing resources across the | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
whole of the UK. That's what people voted for in the referendum. | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
Scottish Labour has proposed increasing income tax in Scotland. | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
Some people would say that's madness. Any political party | :50:28. | :50:29. | |
proposing an income tax rise doesn't win an election. The Scottish | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
Parliament tomorrow will vote on its budget, the budget advocated by the | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
SNP contains hundreds of millions of pounds of cuts to vital public | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
services and education. They argue it because they just haven't got | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
enough money to actually do what they would like to do so there have | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
to be some cuts somewhere, better than increasing taxes on vulnerable | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
and put people. We have protected vulnerable people. But we have been | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
told the decades that the Scottish Parliament, the institution itself, | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
would allow people in Scotland to take different choices to | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
Westminster. Nicola Sturgeon, her whole adult life, her whole | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
political career, has argued that more powers means fewer cuts. I'm | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
saying we now have the power in Scotland to set income tax. This is | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
the Scottish rate of income tax. It is the first time we've been able to | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
set this rate. I'm advocating that we should set it 1p higher than | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
George Osborne and in so doing, we don't have to make these cuts. For | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
the first time, the Scottish Parliament has a serious power, a | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
serious choice to take a different path for Scotland than Tory | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
austerity. Is it working? The polls don't seem to be demonstrating that | :51:38. | :51:39. | |
people are flocking to Scottish Labour as a result of that policy. | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
There was a poll in the daily record that showed that 48% people in | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
Scotland support the policy... They support the policy but are they | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
supporting Labour? It is early days but I'm putting forward a very clear | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
anti-austerity message. No longer will the Scottish Parliament just be | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
a conveyor belt for Tory cuts. The Labour Party in Scotland is the only | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
party with a clear anti-austerity message and I think that's what the | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
vast majority of voters in Scotland want to hear. You say that but they | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
are supporting the policy. People did support the individual policies | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
of Ed Miliband - the energy freeze was popular for a time - but it | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
didn't do him any good in the general election. They may support | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
the policy but where is the evidence that people are supporting Scottish | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
Labour? It is in that poll... For the policy. And the collection | :52:26. | :52:33. | |
campaign has just started. The SNP are considerably ahead of Labour and | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
it has been that way for some time. This problems of the Scottish Labour | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
Party didn't happen overnight and won't be fixed overnight or by one | :52:41. | :52:49. | |
person. The SNP was polling at 53%, Labour 22%. Is this some ploy for | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
you to have an eye-catching policy to try to differentiate yourself | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
from the SNP against whom you are making no dent at all? I totally | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
believe that this is the right thing to do. I think the best thing any | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
government can do in this modern age is investing its people. That's the | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
only way we can compete it for future jobs and the skills race | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
around the world. If we don't do that, we will pay a huge economic | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
price and I'm saying that faced with a choice between using the powers of | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
the Scottish Parliament to try a different track from Tory austerity | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
or to try to pass that on, I choose to use those powers. What does | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
success, in your eyes, look like for Scottish Labour in May? I've made a | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
very clear plan to review the Scottish Labour Party, so people | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
have to have a much clearer sense of who we are and what we stand for. | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
The tax policy does that. I've talked about bringing forward new | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
faces and we've just completed our selections. I've talked about | :53:44. | :53:45. | |
renewing the Labour family itself. So why would you be a member of the | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
Labour Party? What would be your benchmark for Scottish Labour? Will | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
you be second or will you be pushed a third? I don't believe for a | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
second that the Tories are going to come second in this election because | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
Ruth Davidson is a Tory, just like George Osborne, just like David | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
Cameron. She's advocated 1980s tax policies. She has no idea for the | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
future. They're not that far behind you. She says that she would be a | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
stronger opposition to the SNP, yet tomorrow she is going to vote for | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
their budget. How can they possibly be a strong opposition in that | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
context? Although you are standing with a flustered when it comes to | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
these go Chez Chez on the fiscal framework. That is fundamentally the | :54:26. | :54:34. | |
right thing to do with... How many constituencies will you win? I don't | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
have that as a metric in my head because my job to review the | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
Scottish Labour Party is far bigger than what happens in May. It is more | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
fundamental than how many seats we have. When people cast their vote in | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
the Hollywood elections, do you want them to think of you and Scottish | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
Labour or the vision Jeremy Corbyn is advocating for Westminster? Me. | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
I'm the leader of the Scottish Labour Party. It is my job to renew | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
its fortunes. I can't do that single-handedly or on my own but I | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
am in charge and I'm putting forward a strategy. It is my shadow cabinet | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
that will put forward the manifesto. I will be the one out on street | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
corners campaigning. As he convinced you that he could be Prime Minister? | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and I get on very well. Has he convinced you he could | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
be premised? I believe very much that he wants to do that and he is | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
driven by his principles. I am protocol to my friend. Do you | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
believe he can do it? Yes, I believe he can. | :55:30. | :55:38. | |
Now, we began the show saying that our guest of the day, | :55:39. | :55:41. | |
Kezia Dugdale, has one of the toughest jobs in British | :55:42. | :55:43. | |
politics as leader of the Labour Party in Scotland. | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
Well, perhaps for that reason, it's also one of the jobs | :55:47. | :55:48. | |
with the highest turnover in British politics - | :55:49. | :55:50. | |
she is, in fact, the eighth person to lead the party | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
in the Scottish Parliament since devolution, | :55:54. | :55:54. | |
That's as many people as the Lib Dems have MPs. | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
It's so many, we thought, it would be hard for anyone | :55:59. | :56:00. | |
to remember them all and put them in the right order. | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
But we've decided to let Kezia have a go anyway, | :56:04. | :56:05. | |
I am here to help. I noticed you are looking worried so we are going to | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
help you out straightaway because of course one Hollywood parliament came | :56:12. | :56:13. | |
into existence, the first first Minister and previously Scottish | :56:14. | :56:15. | |
Secretary was Donald Dewar. There he is. Kezia, a bit of fun, mainly for | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
us, not you. Who came next? Henry McLeish. Straight out of the book. | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
Obviously after the tragic death of Donald Dewar. Henry McLeish does not | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
last long but can you remember why? A fiddle? Office gate they called it | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
in the press. Early on, those big, big characters in Scottish Labour... | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
You had a peek there. Who is next? Jack McConnell. Jack McConnell! What | :56:44. | :56:52. | |
happens in 2007? We lose the Scottish Parliament election by one | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
seat, arguably 40 votes in North Ayrshire and Aaron. So Jack | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
McConnell goes. Who takes over? Wendy Alexander. Wendy Alexander | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
does indeed. Do you remember what she said after she had to go, about | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
doing the role? It was a personal thing about it. No, I don't. She | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
said she'd regretted doing it quite so early because she had young | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
children at the time. Who came after her? Iain Gray. Iain Gray did | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
indeed. He might pop up later on. Who was after Iain Gray? Johann | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
Lamont. That is the only pause you had. I'll give you that. That takes | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
us right into this sort of period here and she's not going to stay on | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
there, is she? She doesn't stay there long because of the Scottish | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
independence vote. So who is next? I've got some tricky ones for you | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
never stop those of the deputies? I've got some tricky ones for you | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
Jim Murphy was the next leader and I was the deputy. That's true but | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
there was two months of him, Anas Sarwar. Then Jim Murphy, of course. | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
I said he might come back. There is one more before you. | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
I said he might come back. There is me? Goodness me! Iain Gray | :58:09. | :58:08. | |
I said he might come back. There is one more time. Our point being, | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
there has been a lot of them. Is this a factor | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
there has been a lot of them. Is its majority, or is it a symptom of | :58:19. | :58:20. | |
there has been a lot of them. Is the SNP taking over? And, of course, | :58:21. | :58:22. | |
you at the end. How long will you last? I think | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
The armoured car. Do you need that when you are campaigning in | :58:32. | :58:49. | |
Scotland? Is that why you chose it? That is the right answer. | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
I'll be back at 11.30 tomorrow with Andrew for live coverage | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
of Prime Minister's Questions - do join us then. | :58:57. | :59:03. |