Browse content similar to 17/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
Nearly 24 hours after the Chancellor delivered his budget, | :00:39. | :00:40. | |
and as always the devil's in the detail. | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
Mr Osborne's already under fire over cuts to disability benefits, | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
and the so-called tampon tax, and this morning he's had to reject | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
suggestions that there may have to be more tax rises or spending | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
cuts if he wants to eliminate the deficit by the end of this | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
The Chancellor also announced a sugar tax on fizzy drinks. | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
Our Adam's been out with his bon-bons, to see how well that's | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
What chance EU leaders can stem the flow of migrants from Turkey? | :01:09. | :01:20. | |
They're meeting in Brussels later today. | :01:21. | :01:21. | |
And is this the funniest budget joke ever, ever, ever? | :01:22. | :01:31. | |
Indeed, the former Pensions Minister the Liberal Democrat Steve Webb said | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
"I was trying to abolish the lump sum." | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
Instead, we are going to keep the lump sum and abolish the Liberal | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
All that in the next hour, and with us for the duration, | :01:40. | :01:51. | |
the BBC's former economics editor, now JP Morgan's chief market | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
strategist for Europe, Stephanie Flanders. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
So at just over 9,000 words, and an hour long, George Osborne | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
delivered his eighth budget yesterday. | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
Against a backdrop of deepening Conservative division over Europe, | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
and a gloomy economic outlook, the Chancellor waged war | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
Sugar addicts may be relieved to hear, loop-holes are aplenty. | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
Jammie-dodgers and donuts escaped the Chancellor's ire. | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
As is traditional the morning after, Mr Osborne gave a round of Breakfast | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
interviews - he probably needed an Irn-Bru to get through it all. | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
In Britain we have a growing economy, we have got unemployment | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
coming down, we saw that again today. | :02:43. | :02:43. | |
And what I'm saying in this Budget is we have got to hold to the course | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
we have set out, we have got to take action now on the public | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
finances so we are stable and secure and don't pay later and we have got | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
to back small businesses, the self-employed, working people, | :02:55. | :02:56. | |
by cutting their taxes and helping our | :02:57. | :02:58. | |
We set out the plan to do that in the Budget. | :02:59. | :03:10. | |
When you stand back from all the details, does this budget change the | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
macroeconomic course of this economy? Well it changes the | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
forecast but that is the forecast that he was dealing with from the | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
Office for Budget Responsibility, the backdrop was that the office for | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
national statistic, the cash value of the economy was smaller than | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
think thought, about a month after the Autumn Statement, they decided | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
that, and the Office for Budget Responsibility has decided to be | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
gloomier about our long-term growth prospects and particularly | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
productivity, a growth in out put per head. So he was keel dealing | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
with lower revenue forecast over ?50 billion extra black hole in the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
public finances. But, and he is partly responded to that, but also | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
used some smoke and mirrors to still beat that, have that surplus at the | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
end of the Parliament. I thought it was kind of impressive with the | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
straight face he can still talk about the long-term plan and holding | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
fast to his pinss. The buzz words Avoiding short-term fixes when this | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
was another big change in forecast for spending, masses of Tyne qlitle | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
gimmicks and -- gimmicks worthy of Gordon Brown. Some worse than things | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
that Gordon Brown would have announced. I thought it was a shame, | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
there was a lot of micro changes but not a clear strategy, not a clear, | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
you know, when you think about long-term tax reform, there wasn't a | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
clear line of thought, you know, he says he is against cop rap-of-rat | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
tax evasion, the old Chancellor Nigel Lawson used to say you get rid | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
of it by narrowing the gap between personal taxes and corporation tax, | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
it has widened again, so I thought it was a bit of as me, but we ended | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
up thinking he is politically shrewd and he is of course. Very well.. | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
The question for today is - there's been a bit of a hoo-ha over | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
whether male presenters are always positioned on the left of the screen | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
Some have argued it's sexist that the women in a presenting duo | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
are always positioned to the right of the man. | :05:23. | :05:24. | |
or d) Her Majesty's Daily Politics. | :05:25. | :05:39. | |
At the end of the show Stephanie will give us the correct answer | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
So the Chancellor blamed the economic slowdown | :05:43. | :05:56. | |
on a "dangerous cocktail" of global risks. | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
And he warned that the UK would have to act now or pay later. | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
His promise to return public finances to the black by 2020 looks | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
Yesterday, he revealed he needed to borrow ?56 billion more | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
than expected over the next five years, in stark contrast | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
to an announcement in November, when he said he had an extra | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
The personal tax allowance will rise to ?11, 500 in 2017. | :06:18. | :06:36. | |
And the higher rate tax threshold will increase | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
Corporation tax is to be cut from 20% to 17% by 2020. | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
And the Government plans to raise ?12 billion by 2020 by cracking down | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
Good news for small businesses - they will see a new threshold | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
for their rate relief, rising from ?6,000 up | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
For savers, the ISA limit will be increased to ?20,000 a year | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
for all savers and lifetime ISAs with a 25% bonus will be introduced | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
A new sugar tax - the Chancellor's headline measure- | :07:13. | :07:25. | |
A new sugar tax - the Chancellor's headline measure - | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
will be introduced in two years' time. | :07:29. | :07:29. | |
The levy will be added to sugary drinks raising ?520 million, | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
to be then spent on primary school sport. | :07:33. | :07:34. | |
That's for the sixth year in a row now. | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
And there's a 2% tax increase on cigarettes, | :07:41. | :07:42. | |
but beer, cider and spirit duties will all be frozen. | :07:43. | :07:51. | |
Let's talk now to Sam Coates from the Times, and Isabel Hardman | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
from the Spectator who are on College Green. | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
, it has widened again, so I thought it was a bit of as me, but we ended | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
up thinking he is politically shrewd and he is of course. Very well.. | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
Welcome to both of you. Sam, the big surprise was the sugar tax, do you | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
think that was done mainly to deflect from the fact he was missing | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
his own fiscal targets? Think some of George Osborne's allies were | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
pretty much saying that yesterday, look, I think this is a fascinating | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
budget. It is a budget of two halve, the tough he wants to do now, many | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
will kick in in the first half of this Parliament. The stuff he thinks | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
the popular, lie the sugar tax, the fuel duty freeze, the Isa for the | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
under 40s, the income tax cuts, they are going to come in pretty soon. | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
What he did with his financial jiggery-pokery and moving the years | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
some of the bad news to the end. He pushed off the difficult stuff to | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
the end of the Parliament. Would be Chancellor if 2019 after they had to | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
find in one year ?30 billion of fiscal consolidation? The political | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
point being we know the answer to that. In 2019 George Osborne is | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
probably not going to be the Chancellor, because whatever else is | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
going to happen, there are a Tory leadership contest and George | :09:01. | :09:02. | |
Osborne at that point will either be up or out of that job. It is all | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
about the politics because we have the backdrop of the EU referendum, | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
his leadership ambitions, but how much trouble is he in in terms of | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
credibility and trust, by not meeting those rules for now? He | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
should be in a lot of trouble by right, what lets him off from having | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
missed his target and being on track to miss a third one, is Labour isn't | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
a credible opposition, Jeremy Corbyn did quite a good job yesterday at | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
the despatch box in the House of Commons but he has very little | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
support from MPs and he has terrible ratings as Labour leader, and this | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
means there is no heat at all on George Osborne when he makes | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
mistakes or misses targets he himself has chosen to set. He can | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
get away with it. He can probably set more he is going to miss for | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
another five years if he wants to. The heat coming from some people on | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
the Tory backbenches, particularly over this issue of cuts as many | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
people see it to disability payment, is that going to cause him trouble | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
that will lead to him U-turning? ? It is fascinating. The big picture | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
policy doesn't seem to be causing too many problems or a few people | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
who whinge about the sur plus, not many people think he should be | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
cutting harder. There are two or three areas where there the start a | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
Tory rebellion, there is an underground one on the PIP, the | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
disability cuts outlined yesterday, Tories trying to negotiate in | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
private with the Chancellor to whittle away at some the worst | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
excesses of what was announced. There is going to be before we get | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
there to really quite big high profile revolt, and this is where | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
the budget bumps up against the referendum. Me Tuesday when the | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
Finance Bill is before Parliament there looks like there will be | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
amendments on whether they should get rid of VAT on women's sanitary | :10:59. | :11:09. | |
products which Brussels says has to be. We are now, standing, four day | :11:10. | :11:18. | |
away from George Osborne potentially losing an amendment to the Finance | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
Bill. That is very serious, that hasn't happened since 1994 when Ken | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
Clarke lost one. And that will be have been embarrassing, the | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
Chancellor's people weren't expecting that to happen. I think | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
that is the first thing we will focus on in terms of political | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
problems on this budget. How will that leave George Osborne, if we | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
take that into account, and if we look at a rebellion or moves to get | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
it to change its mind on disability payment, how is his standing among | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
Tory backbenchers. He went in very cautious, the decision to freeze | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
fuel duty showed he didn't want to upset the backbenches, he will be | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
surprised he ended up but a potential rebellion on his hand. He | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
tried to justify the cuts explicitly when he didn't really spent much of | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
the budget speech talking about cuts at all. Briefly but we have to move | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
on. I don't think this with was a budget for the leadership. It was | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
for now and for him being Chancellor and co-Prime Minister. This isn't | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
for now and for him being Chancellor the budget you would give if you had | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
am bigs for the top job, and this is when the hoary hits. | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
Thank you both. Hello, and welcome | :12:39. | :12:39. | |
to the Daily Politics. Nearly 24 hours after the Chancellor | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
delivered his budget, The Chancellor is blaming global | :12:44. | :12:56. | |
head winds for lower economic growth, more borrow, less tax | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
revenue, more spending cuts, why didn't the Chancellor see these | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
gathering storm clouds in November? He is not clairvoyant. He can only | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
react to evens has the I happen. The growth forecast had only come down | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
by a small amount. It is down every year. It is down a bit. Last year. | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
For five year, Last year we had the highest growth of any G7 country. | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
Over the last five years we did better than any G7 country. I wasn't | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
asking about the past, I was asking about the future. The Chancellor is | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
not clairvoyant, but you don't need to be, because the IMF spelled out | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
what was happening to the global economy at its October meeting in | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Peru. I reread what it said. I talked about a growing catalogue of | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
problem, Slough Chinese growth, a collapse in commodities hitting the | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
emerging market, deflation still a danger, a banking system still full | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
of bad debt, Italy particular and financial markets tanking, that was | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
in October. Where was the Chancellor? The Chancellor in his | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
November statement relied on the Office for Budget Responsibility, | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
that is the UK's independent forecasting body, and he used their | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
forecast in setting the statement. All those things are true. Why | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
didn't he take that into account in November. Because he was relying, he | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
was relying on the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast. All those | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
things made it clearer why we need to stick to the plan. I tell you | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
where he was, he was in Peru, he heard this himself first hand, and | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
yet a month later, when faced with the OBR saying you have 27 billion | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
more accumulated through to 2020 to spend, what did he do, he spent | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
nearly all of us that was a major mistake. Not really. It is provent | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
people like Gordon Brown fiddling with the figures, They didn't tell | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
him to spend more money. The Chancellor decided to use that to | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
alleviate the effect of cuts which was reasonable. Because he ends up | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
four months later with a ?56 billion shortfall, he had 27 billion to save | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
four months ago, you spent most of it and you end up with a ?56 billion | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
shortfall, that is not managing the economy. The point is when we get to | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
2019/20 we will have thes is plus and finally after 18 long years we | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
can start just repaying our nation's debt. What is the point of finding | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
27 billion down the back of the Treasury sofa, and spending it, and | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
then having to borrow almost 40 billion more over the next three | :15:37. | :15:45. | |
years. What is the point of that What is the point of having an | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
independent forecasting service if you ignore them? Therefore cost was | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
they had found 27 billion more, for a number of technical reasons, they | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
didn't tell you to spend it, that was the Chancellor's decision, and | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
it was wrong. I think he was trying to achieve the government's fiscal | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
targets while minimising the level of spending reductions because they | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
have implications. He tried to make those spending reduction impacts as | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
low as possible is to his credit. You've been in power for six years, | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
is it not a measure of your fiscal failure that you will have two Row | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
30 8 billion more pounds in the next three years then you thought even | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
last November? The fact is we have a hard Labour's deficit. You said you | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
would get rid of it. Now you will have to borrow more. It will take us | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
longer to fix Labour's mess that we had hoped, for reasons due to | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
international financial economic 's but the point is, we are fixing it | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
and we have done half the job already. You say that but given the | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
track record of consistently failed this -- fiscal forecasts, why would | :16:59. | :17:09. | |
we believe that a 21 billion deficit in 2018-19 will magically become a | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
10 billion surplus in 2019-20, in one year, a 30 billion turnaround in | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
the nation's fiscal position. Given your government's track record, why | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
is that in any way credible? Started off with a 150 billion deficit, we | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
have halved that and over the next five years we will do that again. | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
Tell me one year where you have changed the fiscal position by ?30 | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
billion. Over the five-year period, the rate of change is the same. No, | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
I'm sorry. This is the following do you to be in surplus and suddenly, a | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
deficit becomes a 10 billion surplus. Given your track record, | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
that is truly incredible. You can ask the OBR, they do the forecasts. | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
On the basis of government policy. As you know, they score the forecast | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
for it is delivered and the numbers you have quoted have been scored by | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
the OBR. How much will you add to the national debt in this | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
Parliament? I'm guessing about 400 billion. No, 150 billion, which will | :18:18. | :18:28. | |
take it to 1.7 4 trillion. 1.7 4 trillion under a government that was | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
meant to get control of the nation's finances. Which is why we need to | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
stick with the plan to cut the deficit down. No one is saying our | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
fiscal position is a good one but we have made a huge amount of progress, | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
we have fixed half the problem that Labour left behind and we have a | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
plan that will see us begin to pay the debt down in Twenty20 host of | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
the size of those figures illustrates why it is important we | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
run a slight surplus. The Labour Party and others say it is | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
irresponsible but even if we run a 1% per year surplus, it will still | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
take as 30 or 40 years to get the debt under control, so there is a | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
huge amount of work to do. Why are you cutting public investment? It | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
isn't being cut. I am sorry, it is being cut. In the last financial | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
year, it is 35 billion, up by 2019-20, it will be 32 billion, by | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
my arithmetic that is a ?3 billion cut, why are you cutting it? Because | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
the books need to be balanced. So you are cutting it. If those numbers | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
are correct. The point is, that is a very small reduction... It's not, | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
it's about 10%. It will be used to deliver things like Crossrail two, | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
high-speed three. Which our country needs. Labour says you will balance | :19:54. | :20:03. | |
current spending, so far all I've seen is they have suggested a number | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
of ways in which you would increase current spending, what would you cut | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
the balance current spending? If you would take one example of where we | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
were definitely look to reduce from waste, one example of where we have | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
seen a cost, that is housing benefit. Set to be 350 million more | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
than forecast last July, and why is that? Because we are not building | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
homes. We have seen home ownership come down. You would cut housing | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
benefit? We would invest to save, that's what you do. Would we have | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
not seen George Osborne do. I want to know where you will cut current | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
spending. This is related. Current spending is about 720 billion. So | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
where are you going to cut? What we have said is there are two ways you | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
can balance the books, one is how you increase revenue, you look at | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
fair taxation, tax avoidance and how you grow the economy. What Chris | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
missed out of his commentary was that the OBR actually have said in | :21:07. | :21:14. | |
their fiscal outlook that it is UK productivity that has been a main | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
contributor to the revised GDP figures. They may be factors but I'm | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
not asking you about UK productivity. Where would you cut | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
current spending to bring it into balance? We have been very clear and | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
you will know. About increasing tax receipts through growth and through | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
their taxation as well as looking at how you would make savings. So show | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
me where you would make the savings. George Osborne talks about asking | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
now... But I am asking about Labour policy, tell me where you would cut | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
current spending. We have been very clear. We would be investing in | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
order to see the economy grow. We would be making sure we have | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
increased productivity, investing in new technology. You are displaying | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
the time here. Let me just get you one more time, where would you cut | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
current spending the balance current spending budget? And I have said | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
this before and I will say it again. We would of course lay out editions | :22:25. | :22:33. | |
nearer the time. But we have a framework and what we are saying is | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
you need to have an approach that looks at both sites. Let me try on | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
capital spending. We would say there is a huge amount to do. I had | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
obviously failed on current spending. You would still borrow to | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
invest, borrow for public investment, how much extra would you | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
borrow to invest? That argument for borrowing to invest has been made by | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
many independent economists and it is the right time... I am asking you | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
how much. But we have said, and I will say this again, is we would | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
want to see our spending on investment and infrastructure to be | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
at the OECD average. Which is about 3%? Is that right? We have said | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
that. But we have challenged, as well, the drop in public sector | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
investment that you also talked about today, coming down... Let me | :23:33. | :23:41. | |
come to the 3%. Because at the moment it's just over 1.5%, is | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
heading to about 32 billion. So you would double that, taking it to 64 | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
billion. Let's assume that you do balance current spending although | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
you haven't told me how. You would still borrow 64 billion a year. You | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
know as well as I do that these are in line with what the economy would | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
need to grow. You would borrow that indefinitely? We haven't said that, | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
we have said that you need to look at where the needs of the economy | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
are. How you would invest for a return as well. That could be | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
through RND, through looking for a return for working with industry as | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
well, if you look even in investing in renewables, which is incredibly | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
important... I'm not asking you what you would invest in, I'm trying to | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
get the scale. And you have helped us test Bush the scale. Now it | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
follows, since you are talking about 3% of GDP, that if you balance the | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
budget, but borrow 64 billion between 60 and 70 billion to invest | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
your policy is to run a deficit, the finance that borrowing, | :24:56. | :25:04. | |
indefinitely. We have not said that, you are putting words in my mouth, | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
but we have been clear about the principles of how we would approach | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
tax and spend decisions. We would balance the current budget over the | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
course of the parliament and would want to see... And borrow to invest | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
so you would always be adding to the national debt. We would expect a | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
return to growth and tax receipts but there are many black holes in | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
George Osborne's budget, another 560 million that has been identified... | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
Let me ask you this. You didn't ask Chris this. I don't need you to tell | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
me what questions to ask. Do you agree with raising the threshold of | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
the 40% tax rate? We have said we won't be opposing it, we wouldn't do | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
it at this time, because you are seeing a budget that was supposedly | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
to support the next Generation, at the same time as you see rents | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
increasing, you see reports coming out that say that the UK two thirds | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
of the UK is unaffordable for young people. This is a government that | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
has made life much harder for young people. So why are you agreeing with | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
a costly rise? There are a lot of middle income families who also | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
struggling to make ends meet in the climate that we are in. They are | :26:23. | :26:30. | |
below the ?45,000 threshold. But there are families who will be | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
struggling to make ends meet, we believe that we would not make that | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
decision at this time. But we're not going to oppose it. We have said we | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
will oppose inheritance tax cuts, we will oppose further corporation tax | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
cut and the capital gains tax cuts. Would you make the state of the | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
debate? It's finished in reflection, the budget itself was an interesting | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
reflection of the lack of opposition at this time -- an interesting | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
reflection. It was quite aggressive, the tax changes, the distribution of | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
all these tax giveaways, the personal allowances and others, very | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
much to the upper end of the distributional -- it was quite | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
regressive. At the same time as you have cut heavily onto the bottom | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
half of the income distribution and I've seen analysis that shows the | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
changes the election, the bottom half of the net losers and the top | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
half on it gauges. So it just the fact able to do that and focus on | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
the conservative side of the bench in worrying about the friend and | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
everything else. Despite about public investment, you emphasise the | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
slowdown in the global economy, the OBR made clear that most of the | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
change, they have revised down the growth forecast for the rest of the | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
world of most of it is on productivity and as other countries | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
grappled with this problem, they are seeing central banks trying to as | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
much as they can to support growth but turning increasingly thinking, | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
do we need to do more on public investment? Does there need to be | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
fiscal support for growth as well as central banks? So it adjusting that | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
he didn't give more of play to that debate and felt able to have lower | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
public investment going into the future -- so it's interesting. And | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
low it worth of the public sector at a time others have been talking | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
about increasing that. So slightly against the tide of those debates. | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
Thank you both. Well, the Chancellor faces | :28:29. | :28:30. | |
a rebellion over the so-called tampon tax, a 5% levy | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
on sanitary products, Up in arms, an alliance | :28:33. | :28:34. | |
of feminists and campaigners who would like Britain | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
to leave the EU. Let's talk now to the Conservative | :28:39. | :28:40. | |
MP, Anne-Marie Trevelyan who's Isn't that really the nub of it, | :28:41. | :28:51. | |
it's about the campaign to leave the EU, not really about the VAT on | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
sanitary products? Quite the opposite though they are linked. | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
This is an issue we have been trying to get movement on from the Treasury | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
for months, trying to drive the board, it is the right thing to do. | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
This is a completely wrong VAT tax, we have a VAT directive which means | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
we are not able to determine our VAT rates and have to go again to all 27 | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
other states to ask them to allow us to do something. I think that is | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
wrong, and at a practical level we need is the Chancellor, and he | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
committed to doing that back in the autumn, to go and ask for that | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
derogation to get that changed in the short term. How big is this | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
rebellion looking? How many colleagues of yours are signing up | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
to rebel? I haven't spoken to anyone this morning I have been in Select | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
Committee but I know there is great support for it, there was earlier in | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
the parliamentary term and that will continue because it is an important | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
issue for women. While the Chancellor is committed to spending | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
somewhere between 12 and 15 million, the VAT take on sanitary products on | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
domestic violence and other issues for women, it is women who are | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
paying, through their tax, on these things, for women's shelters on | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
issues infected by men. Under EU rules the UK zroent the | :30:15. | :30:26. | |
power to cut that VAT further, so you have asked the Chancellor to go | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
and make a case, but beyond that what can he do? He needs to make the | :30:32. | :30:39. | |
case, if he is to show us there is any authority from the our one of 28 | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
states to get through to the others in the EU framework, that this is a | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
very minor change that we are asking for in overall VAT and tax terms but | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
the key point it proves we are not controlling our own tax system. That | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
is democratically wrong, British voters should not have taxes set | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
upon them and controlled by those they don't have a direct voting | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
link, that is wrong at every level, as far as I am concerned if the VAT | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
directive isn't that they put forward as being scrapped when the | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
Chancellor comes back with what he saying will be a deal, voting the | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
leave is the only solution. Thank you. | :31:17. | :31:17. | |
Well, later today, David Cameron hot foots it to Brussels for a meeting | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
On the agenda, details of a proposed deal with Turkey to halt | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
There are signs, though, that the agreement is already | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
Let's talk now to our correspondent, Rob Watson, who's in Brussels. | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
What are the leaders trying to achieve? Put very crudely, Jo, they | :31:36. | :31:43. | |
want to do is deter migrants from coming to Europe. The way they want | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
to do that is say look, if you try to make it to Greece or any other | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
part offure, you will be taken back to Turkey and you will end up at the | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
back of the queue. In order do that they need to sweeten the pill for | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
Turkey, so there are a number of goodies for Ankara including things | :32:04. | :32:05. | |
like speeding up access to membership of the EU and giving | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
tushes a free visa visit to the European Union. That is the nature | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
of the deal. As it looks from your perspective is it going to happen, | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
are they going to sign it? Well, what I will say in many ways these | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
summits are doomed to success, what I mean by that is you don't find | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
leaders saying we did our best, we tried but it ain't going to work, so | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
yes they will come to some kind of agreement, but the question is, will | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
it work? There are all sorts of problems, how exactly is it going to | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
work, taking people by boat from Greece, to Turkey? Will the | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
Europeans deliver on their promise, to the Turks? And I guess the other | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
thing to look at is to say look, there have been EU summits since | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
2001 trying to deal with this problem, there have been previous | :32:53. | :32:54. | |
agreements with Turkey, they haven't worked. It is right to be sceptical. | :32:55. | :33:01. | |
There is a sense that this deal is absolutely far from perfect, but | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
it's the only one out there. Thank you very much. | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
Well, earlier I spoke to David McAllister MEP | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
I began by asking him whether Germany was now | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
going to heed David Cameron's advice not to shut Turkey out | :33:13. | :33:14. | |
Well, I am carefully optimistic we can find a deal at this sum my. Of | :33:15. | :33:28. | |
course there is still hard work in front of us, but we need Turkey to | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
find a solution, for the migration crisis, we have to bring the numbers | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
down of illegal migrant coming from Turkey to grease. How high a price | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
are you prepared to pay? In 2013 you said Turkey wasn't politically or | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
economically fit enough to join the EU. Have you changed your mind? We | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
obviously have to co-operate with Turkey, to solve this crisis, and | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
this is a very important question for Germany. So the one thing is to | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
co-operate with Turkey, on the other hand we have our European value, we | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
have Turkish interests but we have our European values on the other | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
hand, and of course, there won't be any discount for Turkey, we | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
understand their concern, they want more financial assistance, I believe | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
we should be ready to give it. They want to open new chapter, here I | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
would say they have to match the cry Syria, they have to fulfil all | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
conditions like all other countries who are in a membership process, but | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
we also see the situation of the freedom of media, the freedom of | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
expression, human rights and we will have toed a dress the concerns | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
whenever we are together with the Turks. Is the EU ready and are you | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
ready to allow Turkish citizens full access to the Shengen zone by July? | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
Well, the question of viva liberalisation has always been on | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
the agenda for Turkish Government. I remember when the President came and | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
talked to Angela Merkel about that few years ago, I am ready to go a | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
few steps forward. Once again Turkey has to fulfil the necessary criteria | :35:10. | :35:17. | |
so we can have viva liberisation for Turkish citizen, the European | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
council decided this should be achieved by July. This is very | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
ambitious and it is up to Turkey to deliver. We are seeing slum camps on | :35:24. | :35:30. | |
the borders of Macedonian and reG4S -- refugees attempt to settle in | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
Germany. Did you expect the open door policy would have such profound | :35:35. | :35:42. | |
consequences? Angela Merkel is committed to a humanitarian refugee | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
policy, and Germany has shown responsibility in the last 12 months | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
like no other country in the on your union. These pictures are sad | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
pictures, and they are certainly breaching our European values. We | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
need to find a sustainable European solution. This is the good thing | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
about this summit, since ten days for the first time we see the | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
possibility of a European approach to solve-of-crisis, but once again, | :36:14. | :36:21. | |
all 28 member states have to agree, we have got to stop the illegal | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
migration from other parts of the world to Europe, we have got to | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
break the system, we have to break the link between getting on a boat, | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
and then finding resettlement in Europe. That is why this European | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
Turkish deal might be the breakthrough. Angela Merkel, will | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
she survive politically? Sure, she is our Chancellor, our party leader | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
and she has a lot of support in Germany. That is why we will follow | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
her on a refugee policy once again it is Angela Merkel's policy to find | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
an international response to this international crisis, we have to | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
solve the root causes, why these people are coming to Europe. We need | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
more European solidarity, that is why it is so important the 28 member | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
states co-operate, it is better to do this together, than every single | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
nation state in the European Union going it own way. Thank you. | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
And with us now, Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Select | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
Committee, Crispin Blunt, and the Shadow Foreign Secretary, | :37:25. | :37:26. | |
Hilary Benn there is a lot coming out top of European capitals, not | :37:27. | :37:36. | |
happy with this deal that Angela Merkel has in effect done with | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
Turkey, she did it without involving the President or President Hollande. | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
Is it going to get through? It will be a difficult meeting today. I | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
think in the end this is the only potential deal. It is the only show | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
in town. There are a lot of questions about it, which member | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
states will have, what happens in people are detained in Greek | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
territorial waters as opposed to Turkish, views expressed about the | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
legality of this, what is the status of Turkey as a safe place for | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
refugees to be, but I suspect in the end something will go through, | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
because I think both sides need this. Do you think it will go | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
through? I don't know. I don't think it should, where it is making | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
concessions to Turkey about early accession to the European Union, I | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
think the only thing we should be talking to Turkey about is giving | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
them financial support for the problems they face on their border | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
and giving them the proper support as a neighbouring state to the | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
crisis. Is it giving concession to Turkey on early accession? Chapters | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
are being advanced, they are being offered vice have a free access to | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
the Shengen answeria, all of these are -- area. All of these are EU | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
deals with the Turks to make them more accommodating on the issue. It | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
is ignoring the fact Turkey is spiralling down into dictatorship. | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
It is running a disgrace. War against its own people in south-east | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
Turkey which it chose to do as the Government. And we appear to be | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
ignoring the fact Turkey is no longer a country that is led by | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
someone who is fit to be a partner in the European Union. Does this | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
deal involve speeding up Turkey's application process? I don't think | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
so in practise, for the reason, as Crispin has just said, there are a | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
lot of problems in Turkey at the moment and there are conditions you | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
have to meet. I don't think, I think Turkish accession is a long way off. | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
Would you be in favour of it In presence. Certain subject to certain | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
condition, firstly they meet the standards on human right, governance | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
of law, there is the question of Cyprus, the crucial point will be | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
where we end up on free movemenches we would say member states will have | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
to be able to decide for themselves what transitional arrangement and | :40:00. | :40:01. | |
how long they want them to be in place before taking a decision, as | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
you know, every member state has to agree so any one has a veto. It is a | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
long way off. I wouldn't confuse frankly although Turkey may be | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
seeking to bring the two things together, a decision today, | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
hopefully can be reached, I don't know. Twries to deal with the | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
refugee crisis and the question of Turkish membership. The book has | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
been opened on it for coming on for 11 years, So Turkey I can's | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
membership is in the long grass. What signals are we sending, it is | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
under rogue leadership, with internal policies, that are | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
disgraceful, by any standard, and which is placed its domestic | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
politics ahead of the common international interest both in | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
bringing the Syrian civil war to an end, as well as... All that would | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
disical them for membership under current conditions. It would. What | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
is going on here? What is being offered? Is this, why are terms | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
being offered to Turkey round viva free access to the Shengen area, it | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
is in the draft agreement that has been leaked, actually offering | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
accelerated terms under the chapters round the accession negotiations, | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
this is not the time to be making these concessions to Turkey, we | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
should be clear. It is clear, that under Erdogan Turkey wants to join | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
the EU? It is a real question, a reflection of how badly the European | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
Union have damaged their relationship with Turkey and indeed | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
with Ukraine and the other side of Russia. All this focus on the | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
eurozone has distracked from the long-term strategy of securing the | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
neighbouring parts and one of the reflections of that is where the | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
Erdogan Government has gone. I think he has been giving conflicting | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
signals on that I would say it is clear it's a long way off any | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
serious asession. Let me come whack to migrants. Part of the agreement | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
is those that in other circumstances, the Vietnamese for | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
example would be called boat people. They made it to Greece. Part of the | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
deal is they are to be sent back to Turkey, on the Syrian basis one for | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
other other Syrians will be properly processed out of the camps and enter | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
into Greece and I assume the European Union, how do you force | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
them to go back? That is one of the really practical problems with the | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
proposed arrangements in the circumstances. It will come down to | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
what happens when boats are intercepted, at sea and what message | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
it send if it is successful, in returning people to Turkey. I can | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
see an agreement where by if Nato ships or whatever, or European Union | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
frontier boats stop the boat people, the migrants trying to make it, that | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
there is an agreement they take them back from whence they came which | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
would be Turkey, I am talking about the tens of thousands of migrants | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
who have made it on to Greek territory. Hour do you force them to | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
go back? I think that would be very difficult. I would suppose that any | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
agreement that is reached is going to have to look separately at that | :43:26. | :43:27. | |
from anyone who might be coming in the future. As we are seen, in the | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
last few months, people will do desperate things to progress because | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
of the trauma they have suffered in Syria and it is important we try and | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
come to an a rankment which is workable to deal with that, and to | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
separate out economic migrants because that is another part of the | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
flow from those who are fleeing persecution genuinely. That applies | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
to anyone coming out of Syria. As the European Union grapples with the | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
flow of people from Turkey, to Greece, as the spring weather begins | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
to light on the southern Mediterranean, I am seeing reports | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
as the Lampedusa crossing becomes more possible welcome back the | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
weather weather they are up to 500,000 migrants gathered on the | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
coast of Libya. That is not covered by the Turkish agreement. This is a | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
new, a return to a previous way that people were coming in. Strong among | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
the people traffickers there, is Islamic State. And the briefings my | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
committee got, we went to Cairo and Tunis, were some of the routes from | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
central Africa and West Africa are controlled by Islamic State and they | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
are money from people, they are the people taking the money from the | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
people smugglers. I don't know whether 500,000 is the right number, | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
it didn't get any sense from the briefings we received it was of that | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
scale but plainly question is very much back in play. We need to, it is | :45:04. | :45:11. | |
a huge issue we will have to come back to this, we have own out of | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
time. I know you are for Remain, are you maind your mind up? My committee | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
is continuing to take evidence. Your committee? Are they going to tell | :45:22. | :45:36. | |
you how to vote? People are crying out for an unbiased assessment and | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
we need to look at the patience for Britain's future role in the world | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
and we have a committee that is split. I want a unanimous report | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
from Europe files and Eurosceptics, who will then announce a report | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
agreed by everyone. Yes, I will tell you. Because the nation is waiting | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
to hear! But I will wait to hear until the committee has reported... | :46:02. | :46:11. | |
I think he has said yes! I can't imagine anywhere better to announce | :46:12. | :46:12. | |
it in on this programme. Now, back to the budget, | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
the Chancellor was keen to point out that this budget was aimed | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
at the next generation. He mentioned them 18 | :46:20. | :46:21. | |
times to be precise. One wonders about family life | :46:22. | :46:23. | |
in the Osborne house. The Chancellor announced | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
crowd-pleasers like longer school hours | :46:27. | :46:27. | |
and that tax on sugar. My mum always said you weren't | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
allowed fizzy drinks before lunchtime but that doesn't mean you | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
can't discuss them before lunchtime. We are asking is this sugar tax | :46:37. | :46:38. | |
a good idea or a bad Have you heard of a man | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
called George Osborne? This is what the government | :46:42. | :46:49. | |
is going to do to stop people drinking too many fizzy drinks, | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
what do you think about that? Should fizzy drinks cost | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
more to stop people Because fizzy drinks doesn't | :46:59. | :47:07. | |
really matter that much. The more they cost, | :47:08. | :47:16. | |
the less you buy. I'm sure it will do, | :47:17. | :47:25. | |
because like the Yesterday they announced | :47:26. | :48:02. | |
another thing that will affect you, making | :48:03. | :48:12. | |
school longer every day, You are a school nurse, | :48:13. | :48:14. | |
you are a medical professional, will this stop kids drinking | :48:15. | :48:30. | |
too many fizzy drinks? Yes, we think it will make a big | :48:31. | :48:32. | |
difference, it's an excellent move If a can was 10p more expensive, | :48:33. | :48:35. | |
would you not buy it? You could adopt the libertarian | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
argument of saying you choose your life and pay | :48:41. | :48:56. | |
accordingly but we don't live in that, we live | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
in a world where our National Health Service | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
is under increasing pressure and the population | :49:02. | :49:02. | |
is ageing and the next problem is obesity so we have to try | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
and do something about it. What are the odds of | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
bumping into a Tory MP who is a GP on the street | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
near the school! The bell has just gone | :49:13. | :49:14. | |
and they are all in their first I think we asked nearly the whole | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
school and I think a big majority And with us now, Kate Andrews from | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
the Institute of Economic Affairs. So it's a good idea? I don't think | :49:23. | :49:38. | |
so, it's incredibly regressive, it will hurt people at the bottom who | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
may not have the disposable income to be able to justify a few pence | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
increase on their drinks, but putting that aside, the most | :49:47. | :49:48. | |
frustrating part of this policy is that the Chancellor is interested in | :49:49. | :49:57. | |
curbing obi city, I would urge to increment a policy where anywhere in | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
the world there was one piece of evidence that you your tax would | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
affect anything. There is no evidence that it has any impact on | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
health outcomes. There is some from Mexico, but we will talk about that. | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
It is arguably regressive in terms of disproportionately hitting the | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
poorest but so is sugar and its impact, and the obesity crisis. Two | :50:23. | :50:34. | |
thirds of adults are obese, it disproportionately affects the | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
poorest, so surely it is a good thing to do to deal with that? You | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
have that into the philosophy of it, and if we think we want to live in a | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
society where somebody is of a lower income is more likely to be | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
overweight, that we can say from the top down, we are going to price you | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
out of this, not allow you to purchase things, I'm deeply | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
uncomfortable with that. It is an issue we should be tackling... It is | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
a crisis. But not by pricing people out of something, people at the top | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
can still have this but we have decided your lifestyle habits are | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
dangerous and we will try and take you out of the equation, that is | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
something all of us are uncomfortable with. On the demand | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
issue, it would reduces the demand for sugary drinks then surely it | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
reduces and decreases the risks of obesity. It would be if we saw a | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
decrease in demand but we can look at Denmark and Mexico... They put a | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
10% tax on the strings in Mexico and we also saw consumption decreased by | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
6%. And now if you look, it is right back up to where it was. There has | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
been no decrease in Mexico. Would it work, would it tackle obesity? It is | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
a good first step, it is ready hard to change people's behaviour, it's a | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
shame that some of the public have budget, some of those programmes, | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
were cut in the last year, but I think the head of the NHS made quite | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
clear that this was an issue that was important to him and I think | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
it's a good first step. It is focused on the volume of sugar, to | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
get into the technicalities, it does make sense, because we think a lot | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
of the worst offenders, it is always to put the price of one in the | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
supermarkets, it tackles that issue as well as starting on the road to | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
higher prices. But when the issue is focused on children, people don't | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
worry quite so much, maybe that's why he's focused on that argument | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
because we don't mind nannying children, it's adults that are a | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
problem. Thank you. You do enough nannying of May! -- of me. Depends | :52:41. | :52:48. | |
where you look. Now, George Osborne, | :52:49. | :52:50. | |
he's not exactly Michael McIntyre or Jimmy Carr, and it's not his job | :52:51. | :52:52. | |
to stand up and make everyone laugh, but the Chancellor does | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
like to pepper his budget script with a few quips. | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
And he's not the only one. Here's our Adam with something | :52:59. | :53:00. | |
completely different. The guide to budget jokes, in fifth | :53:01. | :53:13. | |
press, Norman Lamont takes a dig at the newspapers. Some of these zero | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
rated goods, food and water, are clearly amongst the most basic | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
necessities of life. Others, for example... Sewage and newspapers, | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
perhaps fall into a different category. Me neither. In fourth, Ken | :53:31. | :53:40. | |
Clarke begins his 1996 budget speech. Contrary to public belief, I | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
do always look at the mirror in the morning... On this occasion I am | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
reasonably well prepared for this occasion, about to deliver the real | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
budget statement. At least he's enjoying himself! In third, George | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
Osborne about Ed Miliband and his Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls. He will | :54:07. | :54:13. | |
support our brilliant video games and animation industry too, because | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
it is the determined policy of this government that we keep Wallace and | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
Gromit exactly where they are. Cracking jokes, George! In second, | :54:24. | :54:30. | |
not known for his sense of humour, Gordon Brown. In anticipation of | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
World Cup success this summer, I'm freezing duty on champagne... And on | :54:36. | :54:43. | |
British sparkling wine. Which he followed up with this, and get David | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
Cameron. I hold to our pledge not to extend VAT to a number of items, no | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
VAT on food, books and use papers, public transport fares, and | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
children's clothes, and children's shoes, including flip-flops. Good | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
try, Gordon. In the top spot, George Osborne took the time in this budget | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
to pay tribute to his former coalition partners. The former | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
pensions minister, the Liberal Democrat Steve Webb said, I was | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
trying to abolish the lump sum. Instead we will keep the lump sum | :55:21. | :55:28. | |
and abolish the Liberal Democrats. Tim Farron is laughing on the | :55:29. | :55:29. | |
outside. And with us now, former Conservative | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
MP, Matthew Parris from the Times. I hesitate to say this but Mr | :55:34. | :55:45. | |
Osborne had the best jokes. Yes, he's possibly the best joker... | :55:46. | :55:53. | |
Boom, boom! But generally he carries them off although he had another | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
joke in that budget about the Crossrail to, heading south... For | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
people heading south. I thought that was quite funny, too. That is a very | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
city slicker kind of joke. I don't think a lot of people have got it. | :56:10. | :56:16. | |
Disraeli ruined his first budget as Chancellor with too much scorn, too | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
much derision, too many jokes at the expense of the opposition, enabling | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
Gladstone to get up and be pompous for about five hours, did him a lot | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
of harm. I think you tread carefully if you make jokes as Chancellor. He | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
got away with it, they often don't. Who gives them the jokes? They will | :56:35. | :56:42. | |
have advisers, speech writers, think Danny Finkelstein helps, but some of | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
them they may think of on their own. George Osborne is quite a funny man. | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
I see the danger of overdoing it when you are talking about people's | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
pay, unemployment, standard of living, but a couple of jokes in an | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
hour-long budget speech is not a bad idea. I agree, if you can live in it | :56:59. | :57:06. | |
in some way, it works better if it is a response to somebody else | :57:07. | :57:08. | |
rather than something that has been laboratory worked up. I think it was | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
Jeremy Corbyn the other day who said, I have been talking to a lot | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
of Socialist leaders and they all say somebody shouted, who are you, | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
that worked well because it was spontaneous. Is Mr Osborne funny | :57:22. | :57:29. | |
than previous chancellors? I think he does get away with the delivery, | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
the convoluted jokes are hard to get away with but he has got away with a | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
few, the King John joke around his support for the Magna Carta, at the | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
expense of Ed Miliband, was a terribly clever one but because he | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
is known to be an historian and because he was doing a thing about | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
the Magna Carta, it did actually come off. I don't think Gordon Brown | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
ever pulled them off. The bust until any jokes in that five hours? No, | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
no, Gladstone didn't tell jokes. George Osborne has the be careful | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
not to be accused of devising budget measures so as to come up with | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
jokes. He made a joke about the church roof, the Labour opposition | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
said, that the cost ?100 million. We never do that with our script! | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :58:22. | :58:24. | |
The question was - there's been a bit of a hoo haa over | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
whether male presenters are always positioned | :58:28. | :58:29. | |
on the left of the screen on TV chat shows. | :58:30. | :58:31. | |
You buck the trend in so many ways! You haven't managed to sit on | :58:32. | :58:50. | |
Andrew! Not literally but metaphorically! | :58:51. | :58:51. | |
That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. | :58:52. | :58:53. | |
The One o'Clock news is starting over on BBC One now. | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
And I will be on BBC One tonight talking about Russia | :58:57. | :58:58. | |
and the sex industry with Michael Portillo, | :58:59. | :59:00. | |
Alan Johnson, Stacey Dooley, Anne McElvoy and Tim Marshall | :59:01. | :59:02. | |
I'm 52 years old... HE CLEARS THROAT | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
..and I want... HE MAKES CLICKING NOISES, GRUNTS | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
The fact that... HE MAKES HIGH-PITCHED GROAN | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
..it's harder for me to find a job...means I want it even more. | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
When you keep getting knocked down and knocked down and knocked down | :59:21. | :59:24. |