Browse content similar to 15/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon folks and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
The starting gun is fired as the official campaign period | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
but is it a level playing field for Leave and Remain? | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
They may have more money but have they also got more love? | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
Can our EU neighbours persuade Britons to stay with a hug? | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
The Panama Papers have laid bare the secretive world of tax havens, | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
can an EU deal on tax transparency crack down on tax evasion? | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
And, a Conservative MP refers to a female journalist as "totty", | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
was the journalist right to complain about the MP's language? | :01:19. | :01:30. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the first half hour | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
today Mail on Sunday Columnist, Dan Hodges. | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
The UK's multi-billion pound contribution to the EU | :01:39. | :01:51. | |
would better spent on the NHS to "give it the funding it needs", | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
so says Michael Gove as he fires the latest salvo from | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
Meanwhile Remain campaigners are preparing to deploy their big | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
Barack Obama will say that the UK would be better off as a member | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
of the European Union when he visits the Britain next week. | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
Today marks the beginning of the official European Union | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
Ending on June 23 when the UK will vote to decide | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
Vote Leave and Britain Stronger in Europe have been designated | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
as the lead campaigns for the respective | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
will be both allowed to spend up to ?7 million, | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
But Leave campaigners say it's not a level playing field | :02:28. | :02:42. | |
as the government has already spent ?9 million on a leaflet | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
to be delivered to 27 million homes across the UK. | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
However this morning former Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
of attacking the player not the ball. | :02:51. | :03:03. | |
Too often, they play the man and not the ball, they cannot compete on the | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
substance of the message so they attack the messenger, that is what | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
happened in Scotland, it did not work for the Nationalists then and | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
it will not work now. Alistair Darling Randa remain in the United | :03:19. | :03:28. | |
Kingdom campaign. -- -- Alistair Darling ran the remain in the | :03:29. | :03:29. | |
knighted kingdom campaign. Joining us now is Nigel Farage, | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
fresh from posting his government's leaflet on the EU back | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
through the Prime I'm pretty outraged that they are | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
telling us what to think, it has been said that it is outside of the | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
spirit in which the referendum should be conducted. Does it offend | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
the British sense of fair play that in this one leaflet, the remain side | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
has spent more money than the whole of the league side will spend | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
between now and June 23? If you look at it on that level, the British | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
people will not be writing in the streets over a ?9 million leave | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
leaflet. Will it offend the sense of fair play? People are not looking at | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
the issue on that level that closely, I think Alistair Darling | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
has a point, the out campaign have today been focusing very much on the | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
process elements of the debate, the leaflet, the stuff about whether out | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
ministers would have the same access to information. Wouldn't it be fair | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
to give his lot, his side, a free leaflet, as well? That would even it | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
up, and I would suggest, the British media may not read either of them! | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
But it would at least be, yes, that is fair, this side has had ?9 | :04:44. | :04:52. | |
million of free leaflet. Talking about neutrality, the government is | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
not neutral, the government has a clear view, and it is right, and it | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
would be rather odd if the government was in a position with | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
the debate going on and could not express itself. The British | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
government is doing that every day, on television and radio and in the | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
newspapers every single day, the argument is that at the end of this | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
campaign, believes side will have had one leaflet to each household, | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
and the remain side will have at two, that is not fair play. -- the | :05:20. | :05:28. | |
Leave side. The IMF has come out to warn about economic consequences of | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
leaving, Barack Obama is flying in, to do the same. The CBI, these are | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
pretty impressive names lined up against you. It helps for me, I'm | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
pushing this as people against politicians, the more that the | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
establishment up together, the better. This is about ordinary folk | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
making up their minds. Look at the level of threat we have had already, | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
who else can they produce, virtually everybody in the world of | :06:00. | :06:01. | |
international politics has come out to declare that they are for the | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
status quo, does not worry me at all. Is there a danger for Remain in | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
this, from the United States, the success of Donald Trump, and Bernard | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
Sanders, in the Democratic primaries, there is an | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
antiestablishment move around, you can see that in this country as | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
well. The remain side becomes the establishment side, and that is what | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
people vote against. -- Remain. That is the narrative but looking at the | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
history of referendums, general elections, I worked on the no to A/V | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
campaign, back in 2011, for the yes -- the yes to A/V campaign, they try | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
to harness this antiestablishment mood, looking at the SNP, they were | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
supposedly harnessing that, the general election, Ed Miliband were | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
supposedly harnessing an antiestablishment mood, Nigel | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
himself was supposedly harnessing an antiestablishment mood. Most British | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
people would regard Ed Miliband and David Cameron as part of the | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
establishment but here, a choice between the mainstream forces, and | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
an alternative. When people, with respect, when people see Nigel, | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
Nigel Lawson, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, making the campaign from | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
the other side, I think they do not see those people as outsiders. Do we | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
have any friends and lies on your side? Ordinary decent people who | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
want their country back and want to be governing, and... I mean from | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
abroad. Is there anybody? In private, when you speak with | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
ministers from around the Commonwealth, they all say that | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
Britain turning its back on its friends 40 years ago was a wicked | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
thing to have done, and what we should be doing is opening ourselves | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
up, indeed, one of the Commonwealth conferences, if you years ago, | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
debated a Commonwealth free trade area. There are people who in | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
private would say, if Britain leads, our relationship can improve, but in | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
public, part of the international community. New Zealand and Australia | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
were miffed when we joined, because of what happened with their | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
agricultural produce, they are all saying that we should stay, even | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
Tony Abbott... Former right-wing Prime Minister of Australia, who may | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
be thought to be in some way seen as the Nigel Farage of Australia. He | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
says we should stay. As I said earlier, it is the international | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
establishment, and all of those organisations, clubbing together, at | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
the end of the day I don't think it makes any difference. Simple | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
proposition in this referendum, A/V was not, I was on the other side, my | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
problem was, I could not explain the people what it was. In a sentence. I | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
going to try it now(!) LAUGHTER It is too difficult, that is why we | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
lost! The point about this referendum, what we're saying to | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
people is, that is why we lost, if you vote for us to leave, then we | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
will be self-governing, it will not solve all of our problems but we | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
will be in charge, ample propositions. Given everything that | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
has been thrown at it so far from the Remain side, all of the big guns | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
that have been wheeled out, even though the campaign only starts | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
today, our you not surprised that it is not doing better, that it is nip | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
and tuck in the polls, and believes side is showing momentum. -- Vote | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
Leave side. I don't think it is nip and tuck. What is significant about | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
these polls, from the start of the year, the polls have not shown that | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
much of a shift, there has been a consistent situation. Showing its | :09:42. | :09:49. | |
neck and neck. The telephone poles, which everybody seems to regard as | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
the most accurate measure, they have shown significant... Haven't they | :09:54. | :10:05. | |
shown the leeside narrowing the gap. This is the fundamental disadvantage | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
they have, consistently in elections in this country we see there is | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
innate bias towards the status quo. Ford believes side to have a chance, | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
they need to very quickly start posting double-digit lead. -- for | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
the Lee side. That would need to offset it. -- Leave. I understand | :10:24. | :10:35. | |
the argument about the status quo, if we work to join, that would be a | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
thumping know, if that is what the referendum was about, but the | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
difference is this, the plus side is this, I don't think there is any | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
doubt that the leave side has a bit of momentum, a bit of momentum over | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
the last few weeks, but what is really interesting is the certainty | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
of the vote, when you talk with people who are committed, they say, | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
a sickly, if I have to be dragged on a stretcher, I'm going down to vote | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
to leave, and there is more energy on our side, and passion, and the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
more people I speak with, who are just about Remain voters, they say | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
their life is OK, they have paid the mortgage, but will they be motivated | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
to go and vote? In the end it sounds obvious, it is those that turn out | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
that win election. Will miss Jeremy Corbyn have got inspiration and | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
motivation behind centre-left voters, which Remain needs to win, | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
because Tory voters will split more Nigel Farage's Way, was that an | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
inspiring, inspirational motivational speech yesterday? | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is only slightly marginally more Eurosceptic than | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
Nigel! LAUGHTER What he has done is given people on | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
the left licence to, if you like align themselves with David Cameron, | :11:56. | :12:04. | |
and senior Tories. He spent most of the time bashing the government, he | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
is entitled, news the Leader of the Opposition, I suppose. That is the | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
fundamental thing, giving people the green light. Will you appear on vote | :12:14. | :12:22. | |
leave platforms now? In fact, yes, one of our MEPs is appearing on that | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
platform with Iain Duncan Smith, and Chris Grayling is coming on a | :12:28. | :12:29. | |
grassroots out campaign platform with me and some others. Do you | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
think you will win, as things stand? Yes. You call the election | :12:36. | :12:44. | |
correctly, famously. I think, remain. Plenty of time to find out | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
who is right and who is wrong, Nigel, stay with us, you will like | :12:48. | :12:49. | |
this. Now, we've seen a lot of tactics | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
employed on both sides rational argument, | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
scaremongering and of But now a grassroots campaign group | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
is using a new weapon, love. #hugabrit is asking EU citizens | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
living in the UK to hug British people and then post | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
the results on social media. It's been doing rather well | :13:08. | :13:09. | |
on Twitter in recent days. This is Christine, who's German, | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
hugging the musician Jarvis Cocker. He says he spends a lot of time | :13:13. | :13:28. | |
in France but likes popping back to London for gigs | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
and so is "completely against" And this is Katrin, another German, | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
hugging the British Nigerian artist Yinka Shonibare, he says: "Wanting | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
to leave is about clinging Not all the people being hugged | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
are even alive. This is Geemette, who's French | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
and clearly a fan of modernist literature, hugging | :13:46. | :13:47. | |
a bust of Virginia Woolf. But most of the people | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
being hugged aren't famous, it's mainly ordinary | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
members of the public. This is Lina, from Lithuania, | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
hugging her English friend Becky. And finally this is Birgit, who's | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
also German, And as if by magic, Birgit Maass, | :14:05. | :14:06. | |
who you'll recognise from that last How did this all come about? We | :14:07. | :14:24. | |
wanted to do something positive, we do not want to do something that is | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
patronising, telling the British people what to do, we just want to | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
say, we are Europe, you are Europeans, we love you, do not leave | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
us. How many pictures of people hugging have you gathered so far? It | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
is really spread, a bit uncontrollable. We have more than | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
100 for sure, but the website exploded and could not take on any | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
more pictures. Home-made, grassroots, we do not have a budget, | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
we are not aligned to any campaign, it does. We have built our own | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
website, it was not easy, it has spread, people are sharing on | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
Twitter and Instagram, it is hard to say how many we have for sure. How | :15:06. | :15:13. | |
many citizens want Britain to stay? The rest of Europe, they love | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Britain, they want them to stay. Thinking of leaving Europe, people | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
may say, yes, Europe is something different from you, but from our | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
point of view. Just a bit! From our point of view, the EU is the | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
structure that we have built, we have, for three generations, we have | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
had piece, for me that is very important, I grew up with our | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
grandfathers, I lost them in the war, for me, the EU, and for many | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
other Europeans, this is what it is about. And so people are quite | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
motivated. This is not "Project Fear", Nigel Farage. It's a | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
conspiracy(!) LAUGHTER All this rubbish about not having | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
budgets, I don't believe a word of it, it is conspiracy, it really is, | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
I say this because, Jean-Claude Juncker on Tuesday this week try to | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
hug me, I said, I am sorry, I am a bit old-fashioned about all of | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
that... Clearly, this is a commission led initiative! I do not | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
know where to begin... I do mean that... | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
It is interesting to a say how good the European Union is. The euro has | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
been wonderful for you. It has given you most of your growth over the | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
last ten years, through increased exports. I suspect that if we had | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
this conversation with people from Spain, Portugal, Cyprus or Greece, | :16:42. | :16:49. | |
the point about the European project, not fighting each other, | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
that takes my boxes, but economic and political union, that no-one has | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
voted for, that is a different thing. I would argue that the EU is | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
actually not working very at all. Let me just bring you back, because | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
we are having and will have plenty of this. The British are famously | :17:10. | :17:17. | |
not very tactile, unlike many of our European neighbours. Have you found | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
any resistance? We have had a few awkward moments but most people that | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
we have hugged, most of the reports we get, people are terribly polite | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
and we have lived here for a long time, at least the core group, so we | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
would not ambush people. There is not a hug squad are going out at | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
night. It is only consensual. Would you like to give Nigel a hug? We did | :17:42. | :17:49. | |
shake hands earlier. Go on, Nigel. This programme is the coffee and | :17:50. | :18:00. | |
broadcasting. -- Kofi Annan. Thank you. | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
Now - George Osborne has hailed as "groundbreaking" a new deal | :18:04. | :18:05. | |
announced last night under which law enforcements agencies | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
from the big five EU economies - including Britain - | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
will share information on the true owners of companies, | :18:12. | :18:13. | |
that will make it harder to evade tax. | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
Earlier this week the the SNP criticised the government | :18:20. | :18:21. | |
for devoting fewer resources to tackling tax fraud | :18:22. | :18:23. | |
than to benefit fraud, though its figures have been | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
challenged - but what are the public more concerned about? | :18:27. | :18:28. | |
We sent Giles out with his balls to test the public mood. | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
It is a political truth that most of us get wound up when we see people | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
playing the system although it often depends on who we perceive to be | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
doing the playing. But when it comes to tax or benefits, what upsets us | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
more? People not paying as much tax as they could or should or people | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
claiming more benefits than they should? The tax bid. It just as | :18:55. | :19:07. | |
immoral. In fact, it's rather more immoral because people have | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
desperate poverty, and they have a faint excuse. Otherwise, it's just | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
greedy. Not paying your tax, that is also bad. But who is taking the | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
benefits? Taxes also benefit. I think both are wrong but in the | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
grand scheme of things, I think tax would probably be a lot more, with | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
regards to proportion. I am one of those people, you have to give | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
people the benefit of the doubt in a lot of ways with benefits. People | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
know it is wrong to avoid tax. Definitely people but take more | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
benefits than they should. Definitely. White of the two, both | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
considered to be morally wrong? Why does that wind you up more? Because | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
I am a big worker and I pay loads of tax. I would say people not paying | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
taxes. That is a difficult one. I think you are right, I think the tax | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
issue. We have a moral responsibility to pay tax. Ready, | :20:10. | :20:18. | |
steady, go. Benefits are for those people who deserve it, 100%. Tax is | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
for people that pay it if they need to and if they avoid it, that is | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
perfectly legitimate. My premise was people claiming to many benefits. | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
Well, that is knotty. In his bid to make a point about benefits, one man | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
put in a lot of balls. We counted, there were 16. I have to take out | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
15. Hold on, this could take some time. 15. I sympathise with not | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
wanting to pay taxes. Do you know why that is? Is it an emotional | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
reaction? I think it is an emotional reaction and may be a rebellion | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
against, I don't know, the man. Don't pay the man? Very firmly, you | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
put the ball in the tax box. Socking it to the man. We have a | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
responsibility to pay our taxes, fair and square, not too much, not | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
too little, what is appropriate. A tricky results to analyse. Benefits, | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
just ahead, but here is the interesting thing. The people who | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
found that benefit fraud was more morally wrong tended to be less well | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
off. The people who felt that tax avoidance was wrong tended to be the | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
better off. Make of that what you will. | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
I hope he went back to pick them up and didn't just leave them outside | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
Charing Cross station. I'm joined now by the Chair | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
of the Public Accounts Committee, Her committee has said this | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
morning that the government is "not doing enough" to tackle | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
the estimated ?16 billion cost Welcome to the programme. Your | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
committee says that at any one time HMRC is investigating around 35 | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
wealthy individuals for tax evasion. Were you surprised by that figure? | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
As a committee, for a one time we wanted them to take firm action | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
against people to use them as an example. But what is interesting | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
here is that they have been given funding so that they will be able to | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
investigate 100 by 20 20. If they could investigate 100 but they do | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
not have the resources, why are they not been given the resources? And | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
how many of the 35 result in prosecution is? No, and it is a | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
moving thing because when they get a result, then they will do it. -- | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
result in prosecutions. This has been a running issue. But if they do | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
not prosecute, sometimes have they taken the view that, well, we could | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
prosecute but it could take ages and the result could be uncertain? Or we | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
could do a deal now and we would get a chunk of change. That is partly | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
why we have a disagreement as a committee. You do not think they | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
should do that? We recognise that sometimes they might be grounds for | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
that but we think the lack of prosecutions is woefully inadequate | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
and does not set the right tone for the taxpayer. And that means also | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
that tax fraudsters think they can get away with it. The committee | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
claims that the current modus operandi of HMRC creates the | :23:30. | :23:31. | |
impression that the rich can get away with tax fraud, is that right? | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
There is a perception of that. We get a lot of correspondence about | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
tax. There is that the general perception. We think this is perhaps | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
the difference between HMRC having a minister to read it and a committee | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
led by politicians. We think there is the need for examples to be set. | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
But we recognise that these guys, the ones who really defraud the | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
system, they have a lot of expense of advice and go to great lengths to | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
hide it. It is a lengthy and expensive process to investigate. | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
But we're glad to see the extra money going in and we hope to see | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
more high profile results as a result. Let's look at the deal with | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
big economies like France and Germany that George Osborne has | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
announced, meant to facilitate better exchange of information and | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
account details and company details between of these five economies | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
only. Mr Osborne described it as ground-breaking. In what way is it? | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
I would describe it as a good step in the right direction but not | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
ground-breaking. Hopefully we will see it snowballing. It takes more | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
than one hammer to crack a nut and we have a long way to go. Hopefully | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
others will follow suit but it is too early to say. If it includes | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
companies like France and Germany, which are broadly the same in terms | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
of tax rules and tax collecting systems as we do. If you have a | :25:00. | :25:07. | |
company in Germany, whether it is in your name or of beneficial | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
ownership, you will be paying tax in Germany, so how does it make much | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
difference? Let's be clear, we know that in terms of tax avoidance, | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
there are plenty of multinationals that avoid paying tax in a lot of | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
places. So this is more for big companies? This is about beneficial | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
ownership. But we know that those are public companies. The beneficial | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
ownership is a way of masking where the benefits are. But if you are | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
company, even if it done behind beneficial ownership, masked in | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
French or Germany, that will not matter to the German authorities | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
because you will be paying tax. In a couple of months, we will find out | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
what difference it makes. The Chancellor has called for the rest | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
of the G20 to get on board. I was looking at the list and that | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
includes China and Saudi Arabia. How quickly will that happen? That is | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
why I am saying it is a good step in the right direction, but unless you | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
have every country, it is still a challenge. Those countries tend to | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
cooperate with the tax authorities anyway. Despite the argy-bargy with | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
the frontbenchers, is it true to say that there is a large measure of | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
political consensus between the mainstream parties on what needs to | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
be done to tackle what has been called the tax gap, the bit that | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
we're losing through either evasion or aggressive tax avoidance? That is | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
the distinction. Certainly, there is a consensus in terms of evasion. I | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
think as we saw with the debate last week, is when it comes into the | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
terms of avoidance that the political gap starts to emerge. But | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
the Chancellor has been outspoken. He has, but what George Osborne | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
would define as tax avoidance and what John McDonnell would describe | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
as tax avoidance are different things as we saw last week. I | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
thought what was interesting was that the government was on the back | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
foot significantly when the issue was tax evasion. When the debate | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
shifted to tax avoidance, they became more confident of their | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
political footing. We will see how this progresses. Please come back | :27:26. | :27:27. | |
and report to us. Happy to do so. The issue of sexism in the workplace | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
has reared its ugly head again. And this time, the workplace | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
is in the palace of Westminster. On Tuesday morning, the Spectator | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
journalist Isabel Hardman Her tweets stirred | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
up a twitter storm, receiving many comments | :27:42. | :28:10. | |
from supporters but Amongst them Isabel Oakeshott, | :28:11. | :28:11. | |
who as well as writing Since then Hardman has | :28:12. | :28:21. | |
since received a private apology from the unnamed individual, | :28:22. | :28:29. | |
who is described as being But this hasn't put | :28:30. | :28:31. | |
the issue to bed. With us is now is Laura Perrins, | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
co-editor of Conservative Woman and Catherine Mayer, | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
journalist and founder Welcome to you both. It is 2016. MPs | :28:39. | :28:49. | |
should not be saying to female journalists, I want to talk to the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
totty. It is going to be a very long life if every time a man pays a | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
woman a component in the workplace, a Twitter storm is going to be | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
started. You think it is a component to call somebody totty? We know the | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
words that was used. Is it a condiment? The point is, this idea | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
that men might find a woman attractive in the workplace, | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
suddenly they cannot take her seriously professionally, this is a | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
misguided idea. We live, as you say, in 2016, and men and women are | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
working together increasingly. Men can still be attracted to women but | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
in the -- at the same time, they can still take them seriously | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
professionally. If you are offended by what a colleague may say in front | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
of another colleague, I think what you should do is pull them up on it | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
there and then, and say, listen, I actually don't think that is on. I | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
find that offensive. And see if he apologises. By going to the whips | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
office, you are basically forcing an apology out of him, which is not | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
worth anything. It is like standing over a child and saying, you better | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
apologise or I will take your toys away. It is not an apology. Let's do | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
this in two parts. The appropriateness of the word and the | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
response. How offended would you be by the words totty? For one thing, I | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
find it hilarious that we are discussing the appropriateness of | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
her response when clearly his comment was possibly inappropriate. | :30:26. | :30:35. | |
Just possibly? It is just silly. Was it inappropriate? It was | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
inappropriate in the sense that all that kind of casual sexism in the | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
workplace is inappropriate. But I spent 30 years as a journalist and I | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
understand exactly the response that is no response, brush it over, just | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
deal with it in person, but that is precisely how you enable that | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
culture. So I cheer what she did. Not because I felt she needed to do | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
it from a position of personal weakness, because she could not cope | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
with it in some way herself, but precisely because she was trying to | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
change the workplace culture for other journalists and other women. | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
What do you say to Laura's point that a more appropriate response | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
would have been to have gone up to them and say, don't dare use that | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
word with me. That is why I am laughing about discussing the | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
appropriateness of her response. Any response she had made would have | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
been appropriate in that context. But what would have been more | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
appropriate? What Isabel did or what Laura is suggesting? I think what | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
Laura is suggesting does not tackle the underlying culture. What Isabel | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
did has the benefit of shining a spotlight onto it and why it is a | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
generating debate. The MP in question said, I want to speak to | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
the totty. My idea of sexism is saying, I don't want to speak to you | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
because you are woman and I am not taking you seriously. I think it | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
would have been worse if he had said it behind her back. It may have been | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
ham-fisted. But he did not say he wanted to speak to her because she | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
is one of the best informed political journalists in the | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
country, which he is. He said he wanted to speak to using a word that | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
referred to her looks. point you are assuming that he does | :32:17. | :32:24. | |
not take her seriously, that is a massive assumption, he is saying | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
that he wants to talk to her, in a ham-fisted way, she should have | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
pulled him up on it there and then, not gone to Twitter and Twitter | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
shamed him. We all know his name would have come out, even though she | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
has not said it. The second point, as I said, if every sort of | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
interaction between a manned and a woman is going to be sat down in the | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
workplace as sexist, it is going to be a very long life! This is a | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
culture of not taking women seriously. She is an extremely... | :32:53. | :33:00. | |
What...? She is extremely... Shall we ask the beefcake? LAUGHTER | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
That is quite inappropriate! LAUGHTER | :33:05. | :33:13. | |
Hearing in slices on this is fairly familiar... (!) on both sides of the | :33:14. | :33:21. | |
debate, not just a gender clash but a generational clash, different | :33:22. | :33:23. | |
opinions, the reality is that there is a new generation of female | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
journalists in the lobby, like Isabel, and whether or not people | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
think it is innocent or not innocent, they are not going to put | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
up with the sort of rubbish that women did in the 1960s... 20, 30 | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
years ago. I have been a journalist for such a long time, this is why | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
this matters, when I started I thought this would be eradicated, | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
the point is that it is still perpetuating, young journalists are | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
having to put up with it, does it matter, yes it does because it | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
matters in terms of the journalistic output... I think what we are seeing | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
is they are experiencing what Isabel has demonstrated, she will not put | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
up with it. It has got marginally better... Surely it has got better. | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
I can certainly testified to ongoing problems... I do not know any female | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
journalists who have not experienced harassment by colleagues or | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
interviewees. Even in the house of parliament. We must leave it there. | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
For now it's time to say goodbye to my guest of the day. | :34:36. | :34:42. | |
So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on Europe. | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
We'll be discussing the proposed crackdown on tax avoidance | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
in Europe, a deal to share airline passenger details with the police | :34:49. | :34:50. | |
and security services and what a Brexit could mean | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe, | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
VOICEOVER: Responding to the Panama Papers Revelation, the EU announced | :34:57. | :35:05. | |
on the measures on tax avoidance, leaving big businesses with nowhere | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
to hide, forcing them to declare how much corporation tax they pay | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
outside of the EU, including in tax havens. The migrant crisis goes on, | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
with Italian coastguards rescuing 4000 migrants in just two days, | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
Austria has strengthened its border controls, causing tensions between | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
bureaucrats and member states. This is EU officials including Council | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
President Donald Tusk appeared in front of MEPs on Wednesday, to | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
defend the controversial deal to return migrants to Turkey. Testers | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
in Paris spent a second week sleeping out in the Place de la | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
Republique, expressing anger over labour reforms. That Occupy is. | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
British MEPs say Jamaal, perhaps did not mean to be caught making this | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
rather rude hand gesture, during the European Parliament session. -- | :35:57. | :36:11. | |
Saeed Jamal. -- the protest -- protesters. | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
And with us for the next thirty minutes I've been | :36:14. | :36:15. | |
joined by two MEPs - the Conservative, Timothy Kirkhope | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail, | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
that's the EU's efforts to crackdown on tax avoidance and evasion | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
They are saying that the corporation should include details of what is | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
operating in tax havens if they want to trade with the EU. The right | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
thing to do? It is right that we should have far more transparency, | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
there is an understanding that there has been real concerns over tax | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
havens, wherever they may be, and I am very encouraged by not only the | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
attitude that we are taking in Europe but also Chancellor George | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
Osborne with his colleagues, and the meeting at the IMF. Is the EU sure, | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
that it has done enough about tax havens, in its missed, I think of | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
Luxembourg, even, some people say Ireland. It has made progress, one | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
of the problems we have, of course, as conservatives, we do not want to | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
see tax harmonisation is coming in on the back of this crackdown. We | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
need to separate the two. That is one of the reasons why we sometimes | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
have difficulty with some of the things put forward, the proposal | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
from the commission and the European Parliament. We have no objection to | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
an international system where countries get together to do this | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
kind of thing, most tax havens are moving outside of the Unocha. Vonage | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
and Steyn, and Switzerland, because the EU are begin to clamp down on | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
them. The danger is that if you do not have an international system, | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
they move out and do their business elsewhere. -- outside of the EU. | :37:48. | :37:59. | |
From Lytton Steyn. -- list and Steyn. Has the EU fade a role in | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
beginning best practice, in doing things which we know cannot be | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
resolved in a European level alone, but it has started the ball rolling. | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
The EU is not supposed to be concerned in taxes, it is meant to | :38:14. | :38:21. | |
be one of the red lines. When the EU does anything it is all about | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
long-term ambitions. It may initially seem like a good thing, | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
but we have got a look at the longer plans. The use should not look to | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
see if member states are able to gather tax revenues that is their | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
due? It is something that should be done on an international level. -- | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
the EU. You will only have a partial solution if Russia and the US are | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
not in it. This shows a good example to the world, the fact we have five | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
Nations agreed on taking much stronger steps to avoid this tax | :39:02. | :39:10. | |
evasion. It will not be as ground-breaking as the Chancellor is | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
trying to make out. The is a very good starting point, a good example | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
of working together. One of the ways in which you can avoid tax | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
avoidance, aggressive taxation, flat tax system, simple and easy of the | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
people to understand and then people will be more willing to pay their | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
taxes. Now, MEPs voted this week to set up | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
a joint system for police and justice officials to access | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
airline passenger data, covering Passenger Name Record | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
data includes names, contact details, itinerary, | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
the credit card used for payment and baggage information, | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
along with passport details. It will not include a person's | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
race or ethnic origin, religion, political opinion, | :39:50. | :39:51. | |
trade union membership, This data is routinely | :39:52. | :39:53. | |
collected by airlines, but the EU is planning to set up | :39:54. | :39:55. | |
"Passenger Information Units" in each EU member state to collect | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
the information instead. The units will be able to keep this | :39:59. | :40:09. | |
data for up to five years, and can pass the data on to law | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
enforcement officials only in cases Critics are concerned over privacy | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
and the length of time the data can be stored for, | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
but supporters argue that it is important | :40:24. | :40:25. | |
to have a "common high standard", and that this is less | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
information than you would give High-flyer a lot the United States | :40:29. | :40:46. | |
you have to give all of this advance passenger information, and that goes | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
to the US border force. -- I fly a lot to the United States. If there | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
was something dodgy, they would stop me going to the United States before | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
I even got on the aeroplane. A lot of people will be surprised that | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
does not happen in Europe. This is my report, I have been working on it | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
for five years. Having to deal with quite a lot of opposition, mostly | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
based on the fact that individual data and privacy is something that | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
obviously we are concerned about but some groups believe that take Robert | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
Lee over security. We have an agreement with the United States, | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
three years ago we entered into that. We being the youth. Yes, that | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
is the only way in which you can operate. The Americans would not let | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
you fly otherwise. International crime is international, terrorism | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
does not respect borders, but patterns of activity, which is what | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
these proposals are designed to deal with, patterns of activity are | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
enormously important for intelligence agencies and police, I | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
am delighted that we got the votes this week to get them. Parliament | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
finally approved, there had been resistance. Five years, it has taken | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
ten years of my life! It is now through, it is not a silver bullet | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
but it is an important tool to give us greater security when we travel, | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
not only when we travel but also on the ground. Quite a large section of | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
the parliament are against it, 179 MEPs... Almost one third voted | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
against it. Including yourself. Did you vote against it? I did indeed, | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
we have a passenger name recognition system in the UK which we share with | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
other people and other countries have systems they share, this gives | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
an enormous amount of personal information, which on the basis of | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
common recognition, which means that week except that all European Union | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
countries are on any call footing, we give information to | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
institutionally corrupt countries like Romania and Bulgaria, we do not | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
think that is a good idea, who knows what they can do with it. We even | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
know in this country that government-held information on | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
citizens often goes amiss. It is true, they can lose it, but how can | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
they miss use it? Criminal purposes, if someone can gain access. -- | :43:01. | :43:11. | |
misuse. This is quite ridiculous, I have got to dispute this, because | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
the EU is in the title, that is why he voted against it, we have very | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
tight safeguards, quality standards, a lot of them based on the British | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
system, which has been in existence, but instead of these ridiculous | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
slow-moving bilaterals to get information about suspicious people | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
travelling, from now on, and it is very strict rules and controls we | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
will be able to move information fast, as fast as terrorists can move | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
much and that is the key. We have got to do it together. Terrorist | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
have moved on, they realise they can be trapped in this way, we have seen | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
in the Harris attacks and Brussels attacks that is how they do it. | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
Chain and open borders, that is the biggest problem, that people can | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
move across Europe freely and get in on forged papers. -- Paris attacks. | :43:59. | :44:06. | |
It is perfectly true that if you... If you close one area, it can open | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
other areas, but it is not a reason for doing it, it has worked pretty | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
well on the trans-Atlantic side of things, between the Uganda America, | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
should we not... If we are better protected that way, as we crossed | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
the Atlantic, should we not have the equivalent safeguards, if I fly from | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
Nice to Berlin. We do it with countries that we can trust. We | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
cannot trust all of the countries in the EU, let me give you a point | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
which illustrates this. About this common recognition fallacy. European | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
arrest warrant, anybody can be shipped off to any other country on | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
the strength of a piece of paper, the European Court of Human | :44:47. | :45:00. | |
Rights I think it was has recently adjusted a judgment where we cannot | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
send people back from Britain, to serve their sentence in their own | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
country, because of human rights. This common recognition thing, it is | :45:07. | :45:08. | |
not all of the same level. Is it necessary for the authorities to | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
keep the data for five years. It is made anonymous after six months, | :45:12. | :45:13. | |
people have not called on that, it becomes statistically important but | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
not statistically. -- statistically but not specifically. What does that | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
mean? Intelligence agencies are looking at patterns, and developing | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
patterns, this is the key to intelligence. You would know that I | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
had made a trip but you would not know it was me. You knew that trips | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
were making certain routes, you mention going to a European city | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
from outside, what people are doing and will continue to do is to do an | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
indirect set of travel, maybe from Istanbul to Stockholm to Madrid to | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
Berlin, maybe to attack Paris or London. I think that our own system | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
has been very successful, but it is having to rely upon bilaterals | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
occasionally, it is not good enough to try to deal with the modern | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
threats that we have. When does it coming? Very quickly, within two | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
years. I'm hoping that we will be operating a lot of it within months. | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
Now, David Cameron called it a "once in a generation" decision. | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
Should we stay in the European Union? | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
Will we still have access to the single market? | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
If we leave would we be able to curb migration? | :46:18. | :46:19. | |
But perhaps some of those people most affected by the decision | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
are the two million Brits living on the continent, | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
many of whom won't be able to vote in the upcoming referendum. | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
Our Adam Fleming has been to Malta to meet some of them. | :46:28. | :46:38. | |
These are celebrating the UK leaving. -- the Maltese. It is the | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
freak and a bank holiday commemorating the moment in 1979 | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
when British troops left to these islands. -- freedom and a bank | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
holiday. But in truth, the Brits never really left. There are 12,000 | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
of them still living here. Come with me to meet some of them. Amanda | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
thinks the European Union makes sense for trade but she worked on an | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
EU project of the did not seem like value for money, leaving her | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
conflicted. I have benefited from working and living across the EU. I | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
like to travel across the EU. And then I am kind of thinking, as | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
humans we like the status quo, we tend towards that. So I do need to | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
just check what I'm taking for granted, and the assumptions I am | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
making, that they actually make sense. Some longer term residents | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
like Peter cannot vote because they have lived abroad for more than 15 | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
years. I am actually quite annoyed about it. I would like to have some | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
say. I am still paying tax in the UK and I have always paid them there. I | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
think perhaps I should have a vote. Among other retirees, the arguments | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
sound just like the ones you would hear in the pub back home. I don't | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
know what I want to know about it. I feel that the politicians, the ones | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
that come out are telling you the scaremongering about staying in, and | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
the ones that want you to stay in our scaremongering about coming out. | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
You are getting bad points on both sides. My gut reaction is better the | :48:15. | :48:23. | |
devil you know, stay in. We like to obey the laws, but sometimes a lot | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
of the things that are coming out, the red tape and everything coming | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
out, it seems to be making things up as they go along sometimes. You | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
think of the UK should be making its own laws but you have actually left | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
the UK. But the reason I left, I go back very often and I am very loyal, | :48:43. | :48:51. | |
by the way. I am a royalist. There are a few exclusively expat worries. | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
I had a look on the internet and one of the things they were talking | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
about, the retirement pension, they might have to frees that, and they | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
might not give you any of the increases over the years, like we do | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
in England. That is all I am worried about, my pension. An Freedom Day, | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
the Maltese prime minister visits this memorial. He has tried to be | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
reassuring. He says that British people's health care in Malta is | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
covered by an agreement by the two countries signed before either was | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
in the EU, and the tax system is generous to foreign inventions. And | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
this Swiss law firm is not getting calls from worried Brits in Malta. | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
Instead, it is worried Brits in Britain. Generally, these are people | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
living in London, British or otherwise, and for them that is the | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
European capital of financial services. Previously, they relied on | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
London being not only London but also part of the European Union, and | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
now they will need to look for another central European city which | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
is friendly to financial services and generally pro-business. Of | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
course, Malta offers more than that, the mild climate and the sun and the | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
sea and the General Mediterranean way of life. Malta has obvious links | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
with the UK, making people here seem pretty relaxed about the referendum. | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
Globally, just 106,000 expats are on the electoral roll, which suggests | :50:29. | :50:30. | |
that their postal votes will not have a massive impact on the result. | :50:31. | :50:38. | |
Should British expats who are living in the EU and still British | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
citizens, should they have the vote in this referendum? I would have | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
liked them to have had the vote. But I don't think they are. I don't | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
think they will change the voting system for this. I really would have | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
been a good idea for them to have something to say because they are a | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
component, living in Europe, and they are British. Do you think they | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
should? The cut-off was 15 years ago, I personally would not have too | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
much trouble... Explain that, you think if you have been away for 15 | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
years, you lose the right to vote? I think that is a fair point. I would | :51:18. | :51:20. | |
not have an objection to them voting if they had recently left. For the | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
expats we saw there in Malta, and there are many more in Spain and | :51:27. | :51:37. | |
France, if we were to leave, are they not right to be worried about | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
their residency status and access to health care and so on? The macro no, | :51:43. | :51:52. | |
because there have always been Brits living abroad. There are two and a | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
half times as many foreign people living in Britain then in the EU. -- | :51:56. | :52:05. | |
than British people living in the EU. We're certainly not going to do | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
anything to the Europeans living in our country, and as for health | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
services, we have reciprocal arrangements already, or we had them | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
before. And there is no reason why it shouldn't. This is what you | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
always say, Jeremy, there is no reason why this should not be. I | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
would say that actually there is a lot of reasoning why it would not | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
be. We are not part of the EU, if we're not we are essentially at the | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
mercy of different states. Malta may have a positive attitude because of | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
its history with Britain, but a lot of other countries do not and will | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
not. And I think therefore it is irrational in to tell the public | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
that it should be all right on the night. I don't know. -- it is a very | :52:47. | :52:54. | |
rash thing to tell the public. A lot of European countries do not have | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
equivalent health services. You have to pay or have insurance in Greece. | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
In terms of the arrangement we have got, Britain pays far more out to | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
the European Union and we get back in terms of this. Recent figures | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
show that we have spent about ?683 million in the EU, while we got ?50 | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
million back. It is published figures. Was that in your manifesto? | :53:17. | :53:25. | |
You think nothing will really change? Why would it. I think it is | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
a massive danger. It is not scaremongering, it is reality. | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
Now it's one of the EU's smallest countries, | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
but its size perhaps belies its influence. | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
It's the home of the European Court of Justice | :53:44. | :53:45. | |
Jean Claude Juncker, is President of the | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
Adam's been to meet the neighbours in Luxembourg. | :53:49. | :54:01. | |
In morning at the stables, except it is actually the airport. | :54:02. | :54:09. | |
Luxembourg's freight only airline, the biggest of its kind in Europe, | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
specialises in transporting expensive courses. Around 3000 a | :54:15. | :54:22. | |
year. At thousands of euros each. The horses travel in this specially | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
designed container. Wood shavings on the ground so it feels like a stable | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
back home. And the door, so that the groom can check on the animals | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
during the flight. There is a groom on hand all time, along with food, | :54:37. | :54:43. | |
water and a vet at each end of the flight. We have to stop at | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
Prestwick, LA, Seattle and Calgary. When will they arise in Canada? | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
Tomorrow in the afternoon, I think. -- when will they arise. It is quite | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
a long flight. And it is not just horses. The company has flown | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
forces, a giraffe and even a quail. All of this is very Luxembourg. | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
Looking after assets for fairly wealthy people who live elsewhere. A | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
tradition that has made this tiny country very big news. Two years | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
ago, a cache of documents showed that hundreds of multi national | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
companies enjoyed minuscule tax rates here, a scandal that came to | :55:24. | :55:32. | |
be known as Luxleaks. I went to this town to meet the mayor, also the | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
general secretary of the Christian social People's party, which has | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
provided most of Luxembourg's leaders since the Second World War. | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
Are you worried that Luxembourg sometimes looks like the pan of | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
Europe? I hope they do not see us as that. Because we are not the Panama | :55:49. | :55:58. | |
of Europe. Of course, our affairs might not look quite right, but a | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
lot of things have changed, and I think when we compare ourselves with | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
London, we do not have to be ashamed of ourselves. Ouch. He is also pals | :56:09. | :56:17. | |
with Jean-Claude Juncker, now president of the European | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
commission. So what do you do the night around the youngers? -- | :56:23. | :56:38. | |
Junkers. You have a ball, with... Jean-Claude Juncker is a fan of | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
pinball machines? He likes to play. And as for our four-legged friends, | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
they are ready for take-off to Canada I hope they pay attention to | :56:48. | :56:56. | |
the city information. Many of the companies that would criticise for | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
not paying tax are not doing so because they are based in Luxembourg | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
and many of these arrangements were put in place by Jean-Claude Juncker | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
when he was Bannister. Are we right to be suspicious? I think the Brits | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
having natural inclination to be suspicious. -- when he was | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
Bannister. I think the way that this is moving does not favour anybody | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
because it happens to be the place where he used to live. But it is a | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
poacher turned gamekeeper situation, the man who presided over this is | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
now the man cleaning it up. It is incredible. A slight irony, perhaps. | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
We were using the European Parliament when this subject came up | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
because Mr Yunker at presided over all of this when he was Bannister. | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
And now he's telling the rest of Europe to clean up their act. -- Mr | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
Juncker. And now Luxembourg is the HQ of the European union. They get | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
an enormous amount of money out of the EU. And there is a third | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
Parliament that nobody knows about, mothballs, but which we are paying | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
millions for the upkeep of. A lot of people have a lot of nostalgia for | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
Luxembourg. I remember silver sea and margarine, Saturday night out. | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
It was a wonderful programme. What does that had to do with Company is | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
not paying their taxes? I don't know. I don't know what happens to | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
radio Luxembourg. -- companies not paying their taxes. It is still a | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
place where the tax is very low. It is. And companies will therefore go | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
there until something is done. Of course, we are in favour of having a | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
competitive tax system in Europe and hopefully our system will attract a | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
lot of people to Britain. As long as we are in the EU. We will leave it | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
there. That is it for now. We'll to see you soon. Bye-bye. -- we hope to | :58:54. | :58:59. |