Browse content similar to 30/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Theresa May is preparing for her first party conference | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
as Prime Minister and says she's getting on with the | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
She's sought to dampen any speculation of an early | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
But are there any circumstances in which she might be | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
The Chancellor announces an and to government's | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
The Chancellor announces an end to government's | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
So is the dream of home ownership now even further away | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
As the Rosetta Mission comes to an end we look at the future | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
And do Labour Party members think Jeremy Corbyn | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
Adam takes his balls out at Labour conference. | :01:18. | :01:29. | |
Absolutely. Definitely, 100%? 100%. Nothing will get in his way? I hope | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
not. All that in the next hour, | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
and with me for the whole programme today are the Times columnist | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
Tim Montgomerie and Barbara Ntumy, an activist with Momentum, | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
the grassroots organisation that First today, the Vice Chairman | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
of Momentum, Jackie Walker, has said she will not resign after | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
being accused of anti-Semitism. Ms Walker says "political | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
differences" were underlying many She's come under fire after leaked | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
footage emerged of an anti-Semitism training event in which she appeared | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
to criticise Holocaust Memorial Day. I still haven't heard a definition | :02:13. | :02:25. | |
of anti-Semitism that I can work with. In terms of Holocaust Day, I | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
would also like to say, wouldn't it be wonderful if Holocaust Day was | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
open to all people who experienced... It is! In practice, | :02:38. | :02:50. | |
it's not actually circulated and advertised. It's on the website. | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
The sound was a bit distorted, but Jackie Walker was effectively saying | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
that she hadn't heard a definition of anti-Semitism that she could work | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
with. Barbara Ntumy, as a member of Momentum, do you think she has to | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
go? I think the Labour Party and Momentum will deal with her | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
properly. I think her comments are wrong. As a student I had the | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
opportunity in 2012 to go to Poland and visited Auschwitz. Commemorating | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
the Holocaust is something we absolutely must do, it was a | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
systematic attempt to get rid of a group of people, Jewish people, and | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
that's why we commemorate it every year, it's a society we don't ever | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
want to live in again. Those comments are not acceptable in that | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
room or anywhere and I don't agree with her at all. You condemn her | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
comments? 100%. She has been called upon to resign from the steering | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
committee is being vice-chairman of Momentum. There are also calls from | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
the general secretary of the TSSA union to quit Labour as well. I | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
think the Labour Party should deal with that accordingly. Her comments | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
were not right and we have a process to deal with it. Labour Party should | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
follow that up. In Momentum I am told that the process is going | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
through as well. Whether or not she chooses to resign is up to her, but | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
as a party and as Momentum, we will deal with her appropriately. I don't | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
know what the outcome of that will be. It comes at a time when the | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
question of anti-Semitism within Labour is rife. You have Jewish | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
Labour MPs complaining of anti-Semitic attacks. Shami | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
Chakrabati's report into anti-Semitism was criticised as a | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
whitewash. Why can't the party get a grip on this? Jeremy Corbyn | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
mentioned it twice in his speech, but there is still be sense he | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
doesn't really understand the anger and frustration that is caused by | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
failing to clamp down on it. I think Jeremy Corbyn has been 100% clear | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
that anti-Semitism is not tolerated in the party. Has he been clear | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
enough? I think he has been clear. There are individuals who are still | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
not saying these things but are not OK. I look for the Labour Party to | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
follow the disciplinary process and if it comes to it, they should not | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
be members of the party any more. We need to continue to talk about these | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
issues, they are very important and we need to continue to denounce | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
people who make inappropriate comments like this. I think looking | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
forward with Jeremy's new mandate, I'm looking to things we can do to | :05:38. | :05:46. | |
set aside these fears of Jewish MPs and members. The struggle against | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
all forms of racism that plagues so only people's lives. Tim, to bring | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
you in on this. One of the points she made was about Holocaust | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
Memorial Day. She didn't realise it was intended to commemorate all | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
victims of the Nazi Holocaust and other post-World War II genocides | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
like Rwanda and Bosnia. Is it fair to say that a lot of people don't | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
realise that Holocaust Memorial Day goes beyond? I think it probably is. | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
I welcome what Momentum seems to be saying in response to this. In that | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
audio we heard, one of the most encouraging things was, as Jackie | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
Walker made her remarks, a lot of people in the audience were speaking | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
out audibly against her. We seem to be moving to a phase now where are | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
within Momentum and the Labour Party, there is an awareness that | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
there is a problem, and people are speaking out against it. I think | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
there may be progress, even under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, that we | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
should appreciate. More from you throughout the programme. | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
At the Labour conference, Jeremy Corbyn confirmed | :06:56. | :06:56. | |
that he was putting his party on an election footing, | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
in the expectation of a possible early poll in the spring. | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
At the Tory conference in Birmingham next week, | :07:02. | :07:03. | |
there'll no doubt be plenty of speculation about | :07:04. | :07:05. | |
whether the Prime Minister will do just that and call | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
But, so far, Theresa May has ruled it out before 2020. | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
Here she is on the Andrew Marr show earlier this month. | :07:13. | :07:22. | |
had the referendum vote, we have a period of stability. There is a | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
challenge ahead in making sure that we make a success out of coming out | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
of the European Union. I think it's important we focus on that and the | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
other reform agenda I have for the country as we go forward. And we | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
will be continuing the manifesto on which the Conservative government | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
was elected in 2015. I don't think there's the need for an election and | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
I think the next election will be in 2020. | :07:51. | :07:52. | |
Theresa May speaking to Andrew Marr earlier this month. | :07:53. | :07:54. | |
However, senior Conservatives have suggested Mrs May should retain | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
the option of an early election if her MPs block the return | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
Speaking to The Times, the former Chancellor Lord Lawson | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
said a "wholly new situation would arise" if she were unable | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
to get her legislation through the House of Commons. | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
To discuss this and many other issues as we head into the | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
Tory conference is the former Business Minister Anna Soubry. | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
Welcome to the programme. You have spoken out against Theresa May's | :08:20. | :08:29. | |
proposals for new grammar schools. Are you pining to vote against them? | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
I don't think we are there yet. We have the consultation out and we | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
need to see the results of the consultation before we all jump into | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
thinking there will be some backbench rebellion and all the rest | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
of it. You think they might not even get to the point of getting to the | :08:47. | :08:55. | |
vote? It is a consultation. No disrespect to you, but I think the | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
media is scrabbling around the stories because we don't have an | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
opposition in this country, so we have a vacuum and the media fills it | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
with stories like this. It's a nonstory in my view. It's one of the | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
earliest new announcements Theresa May has come forward with. She is | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
clearly very keen to reintroduce some sort of selection throughout | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
the school system in England. If it does come to the question of a vote, | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
and if that vote is lost, or, for example, she loses a vote on | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
boundary changes, could that put pressure on her to call an early | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
general election? I think this is so hypothetical. I think out here in | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
the real world, if I may say, I don't think people are talking about | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
these things at all. It's a bit of a media bubble, Westminster bubble | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
thing. I just don't think there's any background to it at all. It's so | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
hypothetical. I think Theresa May has made it very clear she doesn't | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
intend to call a general election. Everybody tends to forget we have a | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
fixed Parliament act, so you can't just call one, you need two thirds | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
of MPs to agree, or have a vote of no confidence followed up by another | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
vote. No disrespect, but this is completely hypothetical media bubble | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
stuff. You're saying it's hypothetical to talk about the | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
possibility of an early general election, but the issue of grammar | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
schools is not hypothetical. Turning to Tim Montgomery, do you agree that | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
if she is struggling to get her legislation through on grammar | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
schools, if it gets to the Commons, despite Anna Soubry doubting that, | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
do you think she should call eight election? Yes I do. I'm hoping what | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
we will get in Birmingham this week from the Conservatives is an agenda, | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
a response to the Brexit vote. Anna Soubry and I were on different sides | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
of the Brexit debate but we both agree with what Theresa May said on | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
the steps of Downing Street, people voted for change in social policy. A | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
lot of people out there are hurting. I hope we will get a radical agenda | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
this week on housing, for example. Other things the Conservative Party | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
have perhaps neglected for a while. If we start to see the House of | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
Lords or backbench Tory MPs or the Labour opposition frustrate Theresa | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
May's agenda on those things, I think she has to reserve the right | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
to say, I'd need these things to be done and I will go to the country | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
for a mandate. It might not be her intention, her primary plan, but she | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
needs to retain the option and she will get the mandate from the | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
British people. Anna Soubry's point about the fixed term Parliament act, | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
it's not easy to call an election. It's not easy but Jeremy Corbyn and | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
Tim Farron have made it clear they would not stand in a way of the | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
Prime Minister wanting a general election and they don't want to look | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
scared of that election. Yes, there are technical difficulties as Anna | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
Soubry has said, but I think they are easily overcome. Can I just say | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
that Jeremy Corbyn really would be a turkey voting for Christmas if he | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
possibly thought it was in his or his party's interest to go to the | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
electorate. The only person who apparently once that on the Labour | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
site is Peter Mandelson, who knows they would get hammered and then | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
they can sort out the Labour Party. Wouldn't be advantageous for the | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
Conservatives then? Good Theresa May be thinking, this is my moment, I | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
could go when Labour is at its weakest. No because Ted makes a | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
really good point, because now she has spoken on the steps of Downing | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
Street talking about what she wants to deliver, a better society for | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
everybody. -- because Tim makes a really good point. That's absolutely | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
right, that everything we do in government is for the good of | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
everybody. We have to get on with that, just as we have to get on and | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
sort out this wretched Brexit business. We still don't know what | :12:53. | :13:00. | |
leave means three months on. Ken Clarke, your colleague, said this | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
week that nobody in the government has the first idea of what they will | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
do next on the Brexit front. Do you share his assessment? I share his | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
concern. Three months on, as I say, we still don't know what leave looks | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
like. Some of the senior people of the Leave campaign sit at the | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
highest level of government, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel, Andrea | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
Leadsom, Liam Fox, and they have to say what Brexit means, what leave | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
looks like. They need a plan and need to know what the guiding | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
principles are. Theresa May will need to know what that is, she's the | :13:38. | :13:46. | |
Prime Minister, and it's not for her to rely on Boris, Liam Fox and David | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
Davis, she has to come forward and say what the guiding principles and | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
plan is. She doesn't want to give away the detail of negotiation, but | :13:56. | :13:57. | |
we need to know what Brexit will look like and we still don't. Does | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
Tim have any inside knowledge? Liam Fox gave a big hint yesterday that | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
he certainly wants us out of the single market. Is there enough | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
knowledge going around? I think the government made it absolutely clear | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
that the ending of the Freeman Tov movement -- the freedom of movement | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
is the number-1 point. Immigration was at the heart of the reason why | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
British people voted to leave the European Union. A lot of people at | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
the top of government, not least Philip Hammond and George Osborne in | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
a speech in Chicago made it clear last week that he would like | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
continued membership in some form of the single market. I think that's | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
where the ambiguity still lies. The freedom of movement has to end, and | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
that will be key to Brexit, but how much access membership we get to the | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
single market, that's the controversial area to still be | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
decided. I don't think it's wrong to expect the government to take time | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
to establish what our European counterparts think in this before | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
rushing to a decision. Three months isn't actually that long in such a | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
big decision. It might be in next few days in Birmingham we will get | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
more clarity. Anna Soubry, you spoke out about Britain remaining in the | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
single market after the Brexit vote but we had EU leaders telling us | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
that it means accepting freedom of movement. Tim is saying the British | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
people voted to end freedom of movement, immigration being one of | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
the big issues, so how do you reconcile those two? He's right that | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
immigration was a big issue for some people. You can't say that everybody | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
who voted to leave did so on the grounds of immigration, you can't | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
say that. But it was a big issue. I thought people were saying they | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
wanted control over immigration. And in fact some people were voting for | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
leave because they wanted to see more migrants coming into work here | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
from different parts of the world, non-EU countries, so it's a real | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
mishmash. It was absolutely clear that people wanted control of the | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
Borders. Every opinion poll conducted shows much higher | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
percentage than 52% want control of immigration. Does that mean more or | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
less immigration? Less immigration. I think you are in denial if you try | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
to pretend that's what the British people voted for. I also think we've | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
never had a proper debate about immigration. Nobody has properly | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
made the positive case for immigration. Yesterday in the real | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
world I was talking to a business in my constituency, which employs a | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
high number of EU workers, and genuinely is now having serious | :16:40. | :16:41. | |
problems with recruitment and retention. EU workers who come here | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
to work, who do jobs that it is born people will not or cannot do, and | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
they are finding themselves now in serious trouble and they need to | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
know from this government what sort of security they can offer EU | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
workers, they rely on them to conduct their business and without | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
them they will not bid to do the great business they do. That's life | :17:04. | :17:04. | |
in the real world. Are you saying it was a big failure | :17:05. | :17:15. | |
on the part of the Remain campaigners not to spell out the | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
positives of immigration? Yes, absolutely right. People have not | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
made the case positively for white immigration, migration of workers | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
coming into our country has positively benefited our country for | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
centuries and the realities of it. There are many parts of our country | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
now which have full employment levels and their businesses which | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
cannot survive without that free movement of labour. I am sorry, but | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
people have got to get real about what is happening in the real world | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
and what is going on out there, and the real problem is that British | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
business face. Freedom of movement will be one of the crux issues to be | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
discussed in the future negotiations. Tim Montgomerie, you | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
recently suggested on Twitter that Theresa May may be bad at the crunch | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
moment decisions. What do you mean by that and do you stand by that | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
now? A year ago she gave a big bold speech on immigration when she was | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
still Home Secretary at the party conference. Many of us assumed if | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
she was serious about that speech and controlling immigration she | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
would back Brexit but she did not. Was cheap lily lifted then as there | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
were reports that she did not -- was she lily livered then? She made | :18:33. | :18:42. | |
Jeremy Corbyn like an enthusiastic campaigners for remaining in the | :18:43. | :18:44. | |
European Union. And there were a few decisions like Hinkley Point in the | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
summer where she marches troops to the top of the hill, only to march | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
them down again. We need boldness over the next few months. And yet | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
you left the Conservative Party under David Cameron. You have | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
rejoined under Theresa May. Are you saying you trust her to deliver it | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
Brexit in the way you want? What I think is interesting is how Tory | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
MPs, Anna Soubry is a very principled exception to this, but | :19:14. | :19:21. | |
how most Tory MPs who backed Remain, have considered the commitment to | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
Brexit. Anna Soubry is clearly reluctant about accepting it. When | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
do you think the government should get on with triggering article 50? | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
Bob Crow can I make this clear? I accept the verdict of the British | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
people. We said if you vote out, we will get out? ... When should | :19:39. | :19:50. | |
Article 50 B triggered? We need to know what the principles are. We | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
need to know what the planners. Obviously, we have to move towards | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
that. My concern at the moment is from government, all we are hearing | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
from its people like Liam Fox who are talking in a way which at times | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
concerns me that he's almost delusional. Just picking up what | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
Anna said, you cannot say you accept the result and then say freedom of | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
movement some have asked to continue and we will remain a member of the | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
single market. That does not add up as an honest acceptance of how | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
people voted. And the timing for the triggering of article 50. Because | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
the French and German elections next year, nothing much will happen until | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
they have chosen their new leader. If we trigger early next year, we | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
will have six months where Germany and France are not engaged and it | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
will be six wasted months. He is right, we agree on that! Thank you. | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
Former Liberal Democrat MP John Hemming, known for his tireless | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
campaigning, has been locked in a long running battle | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
with Birmingham council over garden waste collection. | :20:58. | :20:59. | |
He hasn't been very successful so far, but not one to give up, | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
he's taken the case to a higher authority. | :21:03. | :21:04. | |
So our question for today is, where's he taken it? | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
At the end of the show Tim and Barbara will give us | :21:08. | :21:19. | |
Today, the Government has announced the early closure of one | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
of George Osborne's flagship schemes to get people onto | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
The Help to Buy scheme for England and Wales is being brought to a | :21:28. | :21:42. | |
close six month early. The government says it has achieved its | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
goal but it is also being seen as another break from the Cameron era. | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
Chancellor Philip Hammond has said he will close the Help to Buy scheme | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
which offered state-backed mortgages to those who could only afford | :21:55. | :21:56. | |
The scheme helped 185,000 people but has been criticised for pushing | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
up house prices while doing nothing to address the underlying shortage | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
Latest figures from the government's House Price Index show the average | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
a full ?63,000 more than a decade ago. | :22:08. | :22:18. | |
Meanwhile, London mayor Sadiq Khan has ordered an inquiry | :22:19. | :22:20. | |
into the scale and impact of foreign investment | :22:21. | :22:22. | |
He has called for more transparency, warning that a flood of "dirty | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
money" from abroad is causing "real concerns" for people struggling | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
A survey by the Institute for Fiscal Studies today shows that | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
people born in the early 1980s are only half as wealthy as those | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
born the decade before were at the same age. | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
Just 40% of those born in the 1980s are owner-occupiers at the age | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
of 30, compared with at least 55% in previous generations. | :22:54. | :23:04. | |
We're joined now by the head of policy at housing charity | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
Welcome to the programme. Shelter gave plans for Help to Buy a | :23:08. | :23:18. | |
cautious welcome when they were announced in 2013. Do you support | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
its scrappage today? I think many people will not notice that it has | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
gone. When it was first launched it was plugging a gap in the market | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
where those very low deposit loans that a lot of people used in the | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
2000s and the 90s to buy had dried up in the wake of the recession and | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
this scheme was trying to replicate those. The market is sort of | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
providing those again but also people are realising with house | :23:45. | :23:46. | |
prices where they are and incomes where they are, it is not so much | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
the deposit which is the issue any more, it is the whole affordability | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
picture. It delivered double the number of houses it was supposed to | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
select was working for a lot of people? It was working for a time | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
but if you look at numbers it has dwindled. We are not concerned about | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
the fact it will be withdrawn. What we are concerned about is the piece | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
of the puzzle which was always missing, the emphasis on building | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
genuinely affordable homes, still is not on the table. We will be looking | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
at the prime list next week to really set out our plans for what | :24:25. | :24:35. | |
she will do for on low and middle incomes, as well as the more | :24:36. | :24:37. | |
affluent people who took advantage of Help to Buy. The Conservatives | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
have pledged to build 1 million homes as has Jeremy Corbyn, he has | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
said 500,000 of them will be council homes. The question is affordability | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
and house prices being pushed up beyond the realms of affordability? | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
People have got cynical about the big numbers being announced. The | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
fact is, people see homes going up in their area, and they know if they | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
are on an ordinary age, they do not have a hope of buying it if it is a | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
full market sale. That is why the mayor's announcement is interesting. | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
People have got cynical about the fact they cannot afford anything. | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
That is why, when the Prime Minister puts more flesh on the plans to | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
build a million homes, you need to see more diversity of what is being | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
built. Genuinely low rent homes and products like shared ownership. It | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
cannot just be market homes. Is Sadiq Khan write about what he says | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
about dirty money about foreign ownership in London? There is a lot | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
going on in London and no one has a handle on it. I don't think of many | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
homes are being left empty as other people suspect but it is not helping | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
people who live and work in London finding a home when you have foreign | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
money propping up what is potentially an unsustainable bubble | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
and building these very, very expensive luxury apartments. | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
Barbara, do you think the Help to Buy scheme in essence was a good | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
scheme? I think it was questionable at first because it did not fulfil | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
the needs that people had witches there were not enough houses being | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
built which people could afford. I think the Conservatives have tried | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
something, it has not quite worked, people have criticised it and | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
instead of fixing it, they have completely taken it away. It was due | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
to come to an end next year. That is what upsets me, there is no growing | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
in that and it is not solving the reality of people's problems in | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
Babel -- being able to afford housing and wages being low. We do | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
not know what they will replace it with. They have committed to holding | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
houses but we will have to wait and see because the Conservatives say | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
one thing and deliver another. Was this a successful scheme or a naive | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
move which boosted the housing bubble? It was good politics. It | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
sent a message to people who wanted to buy a home but could not afford | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
it that the government was helping them, but the problem we have is and | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
I completely agree with Shelter and I think with the Labour Party, that | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
we are not building enough affordable housing. Successive | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
governments have said we need to build more housing but they have not | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
got a grip. Why? I think in the 1980s there was an economic crisis | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
and Mrs Thatcher's I was on the bigger economic problems. And we | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
lost a tradition in the Conservative Party. Harold Macmillan and other | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
leaders were happy to use statement need to build houses and I think we | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
need to recover that tradition. At the moment we are spending ?10 | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
billion on housing benefit, so government is involved in the | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
housing market, that money could be spent not on benefits, but on | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
bricks, building affordable homes for people. I think it is probably a | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
forlorn hope but I do hope that we will see a real shift in | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
Conservative policy, not away from the greatest traditions of | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
conservatism post-war, just the way from where we got to in the 1980s | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
and 1990s. Kate Webb, if you are housing minister, and I bet you | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
would love to be, what would your top policies be, what would the | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
priority be? I think the priority is about building the genuinely | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
affordable homes. We do have a great tradition in this country of | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
building homes for people on low and middle incomes. Is at home ownership | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
or social housing and council housing, different schemes? It is | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
about getting away with that obsession with ten years. And if you | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
build council housing we do have the Right to Buy, it is incredibly | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
controversial, but it does mean if you have somebody in a council home, | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
it can work for them when their income is low, and if they're in | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
crime increases, they can exercise the Right to Buy so we don't have to | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
see it as an either or. Barbara, Right to Buy has been extended from | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
council houses into housing associations as well, what do you | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
make of that? Again, it does not solve the problem of we do not have | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
enough houses. But as the key issue. We need to physically build more | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
houses for people to live in. Like myself, I recently graduated and the | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
idea of owning a home is something I don't think I will ever be able to | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
afford. And living in London, renting in London is also a way that | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
young people and people generally get exploited when you have big | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
businesses coming in and buying up all the properties. People have to | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
move out or you have overcrowding, especially for Black communities | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
which I am from. We are not able to afford houses and people do not want | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
to move anyway because this is where their community is. Whether you | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
extend it to housing associations or you have another scheme, the main | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
issues to build houses for people. Kate Webb, do you think Jeremy | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
Corbyn has got a grip on this, if he talks about building a million | :30:20. | :30:27. | |
homes, and also giving councils the right to borrow against council | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
houses, to build even more? I think the right to borrow is extremely | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
welcome. There are families in temporary accommodation and young | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
families who want a home of their own so we have to be letting | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
councils build to meet their local need. We are slightly disappointed | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
with Jeremy Corbyn for creating a political spat about is it council | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
houses or housing associations. This is a huge challenge which it is | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
imperative that we meet and playing politics with either the | :31:01. | :31:02. | |
Conservative session with homeownership or Corbyn's dislike of | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
housing associations, it is not helpful. | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
Tim, borrowing more to build more, do you support that? I do. We still | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
have a huge deficit that needs to get under control, but borrowing for | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
schools and the longer term, housing and roads and railways. | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
International borrowing rates are so low at the moment, we would be | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
foolish not to take advantage. It's not a Conservative obsession with | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
homeownership though, the vast majority of people want to own their | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
own homes. So reversing that sad decline in home ownership should be | :31:40. | :31:41. | |
a legitimate priority. Will Jeremy Corbyn be | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
the next Prime Minister? When opinion pollsters ask that | :31:45. | :31:46. | |
question the results don't always look great | :31:47. | :31:47. | |
for the Labour leader. But what if you ask | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
Labour party members? Adam Fleming did just that | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
as he tested the mood at Labour conference earlier this | :31:54. | :31:55. | |
week. Questions don't come | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
bigger than this. Is Jeremy Corbyn going to be | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
the next Prime Minister? Definitely, 100%? | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
100%. Nothing is going to get in his way? | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
I hope not. We now just have to get out there, | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
feet are going to get hammered. You've got your trainers on already, | :32:12. | :32:21. | |
I see, ready to go. That's that's how I swan about | :32:22. | :32:23. | |
conference, in trainers, honestly. I still think he hasn't shown | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
the leadership he needs to show. What, winning two | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
leadership elections? No, leadership of unifying | :32:31. | :32:31. | |
the party and leading Is that the done thing | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
at this conference, Yes, yes. | :32:35. | :32:43. | |
If you doubt it, yes. I'm old enough to know | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
what I'm talking about. I think the media's undermined him | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
too much and people have lost Well, on the Daily Politics | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
we are scrupulously fair. I'm not saying the BBC, | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
I'm saying the papers more. If he's not Prime Minister, | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
how will you feel? Gutted, because it will mean we've | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
still got the Tories. Yeah, for another five | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
years, in four years. I know, it's not worth | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
thinking about it. What's it going to be like - | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
Jeremy Corbyn standing on the steps of Downing Street having just | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
won an election? I think this is the start | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
of an excellent new future. We have some Labour conference | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
specials, some Jeremy Corbyn cuff links, and some | :33:26. | :33:27. | |
Labour Party cuff links as well. Look at that, Jeremy Corbyn | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
as Che Guevara on your wrists. How much does a Jeremy | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
for PM badge cost? My brother is called Jeremy, | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
he's a Tory voter, so I'm Pop a ball in, it doesn't | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
cost 60p, it's free. You're meant to be | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
Shadow Foreign Secretary, Peter, we're doing | :33:56. | :34:05. | |
the Daily Politics balls, is Jeremy going to be the next | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
Prime Minister, yes or no? You've managed to avoid | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
the Daily Politics balls all week. Is Jeremy Corbyn going to be | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
the next Prime Minister? How come the polls suggest that's | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
really not going to happen? Now you're asking me tricky | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
questions, I've done your poll. He's just going to put a ball | :34:31. | :34:32. | |
in, that's all. Well, Tom Watson had the final ball | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
after managing to evade us all week. He went with the majority of people | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
at this conference saying yes, Jeremy Corbyn will be the next | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
Prime Minister, although look Tom Watson saying of course he's | :34:43. | :34:56. | |
going to be Prime Minister, although a lot of people at the conference | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
thought that Tom took a slightly different approach to that. Let's | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
move on. The mood box, there were more balls in the yes box, but there | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
were a substantial number of noes as well. He still has a lot of people | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
to convince. 100%. We've definitely got a very long way to go. Frankly, | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
that's why I was a bit disappointed this summer that we went through all | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
of this again, to be honest. I thought it would be a great | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
opportunity for Labour activists like myself and loads of people who | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
have joined the party and are in Momentum, going out there to | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
convince Labour supporters and voters to vote for Jeremy and the | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
plan he has for the country. I think we have some work to do and a lot of | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
people to convince but I believe we can do it. A lot of Labour delegates | :35:44. | :35:53. | |
don't think he has what it takes in a YouGov poll this month, the | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
current Labour leader is a massive 71 points behind the Prime Minister, | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
he's at -30 and she sat plus 41. It's a shame. Everything that we | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
have been through this summer is reflected in the polling. It's been | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
a horrendous summer although we've had this amazing and exciting | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
campaign and loads of us who have joined Jeremy Corbyn are excited by | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
it. It's not just this summer, it's an accumulation of events. It's a | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
number of things, we haven't had unity in the party, people haven't | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
supported the leader. Getting live resignations on television doesn't | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
really boost and help your rating is very much. I think the key thing, as | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
Jeremy said in his message at conference, we want unity, we want | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
to work together. We have a lot more in common. People might disagree on | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
how we get there but we want to get there. We want young people to have | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
opportunities, free education for young people, we want to build more | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
council houses. Which is all very well, but do you genuinely, in your | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
heart, feel that your party is on election footing, that you could | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
fight a general election next month if it were called? Not next month | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
but give us three months! Differs the summer again! -- give us the | :37:14. | :37:20. | |
summer again. There is a lot of work to be done internally. You have to | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
get a Shadow Cabinet together for a start. But I think we are on a | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
better footing than we were in the summer and before that, especially | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
after the referendum. I think a lot of Labour MPs and supporters, | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
however they feel, I think most people want the party to succeed. | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
Maybe that process will start... You want your party to succeed because | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
you believe it can do some extraordinary things in society, and | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
that's where most people will be at. We are told there is a move towards | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
filling those Shadow Cabinet places next week. Perhaps we will get more | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
names and people coming forward. Tim, in terms of the membership, | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
Labour Party membership is well over half a million and is the largest of | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
any party in western Europe. He is clearly doing something right, isn't | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
he? Yeah, there are a lot of left-wing people in the United | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
Kingdom and he has successfully mobilised a good number of them to | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
pay a membership fee for the Labour Party. You'd like those numbers in | :38:25. | :38:32. | |
the Conservative Party? Having a healthy membership is good because | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
you have people to knock on doors and deliver leaflets. So it doesn't | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
look bad. But looking at the views of those members on issues like | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
taxation, immigration, membership of the European Union and belief in | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
conspiracy theories... Conspiracy theories? YouGov quizzed people and | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
said, do you generally believe in conspiracy theories on things like | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
9/11, a new Labour member is more likely to believe in a conspiracy | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
theory. Barbara? I'm sure Barbara is honourable. All my friends don't | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
believe in conspiracy theories. That might be true of your friends but | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
the opinion polls do speak for themselves. They can be wrong | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
sometimes. It's hard when you look at the positions that Labour set out | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
this week, Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't put a limit on immigration. He wants | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
?500 billion more of borrowing. He's still in a position where he seems | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
to be finding excuses for terrorist organisations in history. That's not | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
true. He doesn't sing the national anthem given me opportunity. I don't | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
sing the national anthem. I would sing the one from Ghana, because | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
that's where I'm from. That might be your choice, but I don't think it | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
would help you get elected by the British people. Let's move from | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
Ghana to Wales. Students from Wales could face | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
university fees of up to ?9,000 after the Labour-led government | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
signalled it would scrap its Currently Welsh students pay only | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
?3,900 a year towards their degree with the remaining | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
?5,100 subsidised. But a review has recommended | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
that the Government should offer loans to pay for fees, | :40:21. | :40:22. | |
much like the system There would also be grants | :40:23. | :40:24. | |
for living costs which would be Joining me now from Cardiff | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
is the President of the NUS Thank you for joining us. Are the | :40:30. | :40:47. | |
NUS backing the plans of the Welsh government? Yes, we are back in the | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
plans. We believe more debt for students is bad, however we also | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
realise that in the current economic climate and the Westminster | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
posterity climate and the potential impact of Brexit, we have to target | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
support at students who need it the most and target that support at the | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
cost of education. Ultimately you can't afford to go to education, | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
then you can't afford to go to begin with. Students are telling us it's | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
the cost of living causing a barrier between access and education. | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
Building up a debt, borrowing against tuition fees you accept, but | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
you are very worried about the day to day living costs that a student | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
hast to sustain? Exactly. In Wales we have some of the poorest | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
communities in Europe. We want to see Welsh government put emphasis on | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
widening access. We believe it does this by targeting means tested | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
grants for students from the most disadvantaged background and | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
disabled students. How confident are you the Welsh government will bring | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
in both halves of the proposal suggested? Do you trust them not to | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
simply scrap the grant and go on to water down the commitment to support | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
living costs? We are very confident. We have been clear all along that we | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
would only accept diamond as a full package. Anything else would be | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
unacceptable and wouldn't work. This will only work if the tuition fee | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
grant goes directly to students in the form of maintenance support. | :42:14. | :42:22. | |
Barbara Ntumy, Jeremy Corbyn wants to scrap tuition fees. He said that | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
in conference this week, calling for free education. How does that fit | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
with a Labour led government in Wales calling for subbing different? | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
I'm a little bit concerned because the NUS has a policy of free | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
education and belief in grants, not debt. We had the same situation in | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
England, we were told it was ?9,000. Now we're seeing the teaching | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
excellence framework looking to increase that even more and we have | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
seen the government is completely scrap maintenance grants after they | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
wouldn't. It's OK for the package to be accepted as it is, but who's to | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
say that a few years down the line the government in Wales would change | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
their mind? We need to talk about what happens when students leave | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
university. Women and black students are likely to take longer to pay | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
back their student loans because of the income gap. You are saying you | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
are concerned about the organisation accepting this. What do you say to | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
that? I think what we have to realise, again, this is the Welsh | :43:24. | :43:31. | |
contract, we have a Labour government in Wales, and the Diamond | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
package is trying to work out the system for the next five or ten | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
years. If the Welsh government was to turn around in the next few years | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
and scrap maintenance grants, of course we do we be against that. But | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
we have faith in the Welsh government. The Welsh government | :43:46. | :43:54. | |
have taken a stance against TEF. There are different context in | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
England and Wales. That's why Wales is taking a stance. Tim, do you | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
think this is politicians learning from mistakes or have students just | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
become more apathetic perhaps or more accepting of realities? More | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
accepting of reality, not just the NUS in Wales, but the Labour | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
government in Wales as well. This is where do Barbara and Jeremy Corbyn | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
are misleading the British people. All these promises of free education | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
and free housing and free NHS, all without extra taxes. When, and if | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
they ever, God forbid, had power, you would not be able to afford all | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
this. Every ?1 you invest in education, the economy grows by ?1 | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
50. I reject the idea that if people want to get higher education and get | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
a degree, after they do that they become members of society and | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
contribute, they become people of society and contribute in many ways. | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
The owners of getting that education should be a personal cost. There's | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
something really wrong about that. When I get my education, I don't sit | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
in my room and may education just benefits me, it benefits everyone in | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
society in the contributions I make and in my work. There's something | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
very problematic about how we talk about education in this country, | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
that the individual should bear the cost, and that's very wrong. Jeremy | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
Corbyn saying to raise corporation tax, or at least not drop it, in | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
order to pay for the end of tuition fees. That will be a popular policy. | :45:27. | :45:36. | |
Bashing business is always popular in the short run. Businesses must | :45:37. | :45:44. | |
pay their fair share of tax. Raising corporation tax is probably one of | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
the wrong ways of raising tax because a lot of international | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
businesses are footloose. They can go to other places which taxed less, | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
not least Ireland just over the water. It is a dangerous policy. | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
There are consequences. You can hear this is a very lively debate. You | :46:02. | :46:09. | |
have a coalition government in effect in Wales, well, at least one | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
Liberal Democrat who is the Education Minister. They were | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
famously derided as a party in 2010 for breaking their promises on | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
tuition fees. You say you are confident that this particular | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
change will go through, but do you think as a result the Lib Dems could | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
be punished again at the polls for doing this? I think this package is | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
one that will go to the heart of the problem that is living costs, and I | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
think it is worth saying I fully agree with Barbara and we want to | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
move towards a system where we have free education. But in our current | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
climate we have a restricted Welsh budget and what the Welsh Government | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
are doing is using this government to Leave budget to target it at the | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
students who need it the most. That will go towards the poorest students | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
in full grant form and we welcome, we are using the budget we have to | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
target those who need support the most. Means testing maintenance | :47:09. | :47:16. | |
grants paid Tony-macro takes more bureaucracy. Do you think it is a | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
danger that it might put off some students trying to get into | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
university because they think they have to go through that process now? | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
I think we have to do more in schools so students are equipped to | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
make the right judgments so they can fully understand what path they are | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
taking and make the decision between vacation and academic pathways. | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
Barbara, do you think Jeremy Corbyn will be having a word in the ear of | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
the Labour government in Wales? Identity personally have aligned to | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
Jeremy Corbyn so I don't know what he's doing! I think we have to help | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
poorest students in our society and that includes grants. The key thing | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
is grants not debt. It is not right to give people a grant and then | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
clobber them with debt. Wales has some of the poorest students. We | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
know you are likely to be paid less in the same way that black students | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
and women are and it will take us longer to pay back our student loans | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
than any other demographic. We want grants and not debt. Right. | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
One of the most audacious space missions ever undertaken | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
The Rosetta probe that has been tracking a comet | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
for the past two years is going to deliberately crash itself into | :48:35. | :48:43. | |
In the last half an hour it has just deliberately crashed into a ball of | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
ice and dust. Britain has played a crucial role | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
in the project which has been led But as Rosetta comes to an end, | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
is now the time to launch an expanded national space | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
programme? For the first time, the life cycle | :49:02. | :49:14. | |
of a comet revealed, thanks to the Rosetta mission. Scientists were | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
ecstatic two years ago when a spacecraft dropped a robot onto the | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
comet's surface. It was not the smoothest landing. Attempts to drill | :49:25. | :49:32. | |
below the surface failed. But... One of the UK instruments was able to | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
sniff its different gases which came up in the dust cloud when the lander | :49:37. | :49:46. | |
bounced onto the comet. Did it find anything from sniffing? It did. It | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
was able to detect water and organic compounds. It was at this UK space | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
Centre near Oxford that the sniffing instrument was put together. | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
Recently, the UK space economy and workforce has grown and grown. By | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
wearing this protective clothing, we can come right up to the space | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
testing chamber, the largest in the UK, which should be operational in | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
the New Year. It will be used to test equipment meant for space in a | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
variety of pressures to see if it still remains accurate. Britain is a | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
world leader in the manufacturer of small satellites and has its eye on | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
commercial space flights. The UK is the fourth largest contributor to | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
the Rosetta mission's creator, the European Space Agency, but MPs on | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
the science committee want to see more of the National space | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
programme. The government is to be clearer about where space can | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
benefit the broad economy. We get a huge amount of data out of the | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
investment we put into space, we don't currently make the best use of | :50:57. | :51:03. | |
that. MPs also criticised the skills crisis facing the sector which is | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
being addressed thanks to Britain's latest space hero. We have worked | :51:08. | :51:19. | |
hard to inspire the next generation through Tim Peake's mission to the | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
ISS which engaged a million schoolkids. Right now, the UK space | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
sector is very much in its ascendancy. Post was that there is a | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
pot of ?1 billion to invest in upcoming missions, but which ones? | :51:34. | :51:43. | |
-- post-Rosetta. We're looking at big mission is to look at gravity | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
building. There is a big x-ray mission. Which mission would you | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
like to see it spend the money on? Me personally, I think the XO Mars | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
mission is an exciting one and it is part of a programme which would lead | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
eventually to man's flight to Mars. From curious British scientists, | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
many missions have been conjured up, but the challenge for MPs is to | :52:09. | :52:16. | |
nurture a home-grown programme going forward. | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
We can talk now to our correspondent Rebecca morale. Can you hear us? | :52:22. | :52:30. | |
There is a big delay -- Rebecca you can communicate with a | :52:31. | :52:41. | |
spacecraft up in space but talking to me in Germany is a challenge! You | :52:42. | :52:49. | |
have something in your hand, what an earth is that? A prop. You have | :52:50. | :53:00. | |
always got to have a prop. It is a little model of the comet. The | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
Rosetta has been an tremendous journey. A few minutes ago touched | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
down on the comet's surface. The head of the comet. It has a body and | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
a head. That is the end of the Rosetta spacecraft. It was quite | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
controlled rather than explosive dissent. It was not designed to do | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
this. It was designed to fly around the comet. It took ten years to | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
reach this comet but it was never designed to cut down. The comet is | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
currently speeding away from the sun. Rosetta is actually solar | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
powered. The power has been fading really. They had two choices to let | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
it fade into the oblivion of deep space but they did not want to do | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
that. They wanted to go out in style so they sent it heading down onto | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
the comet's surface. There are pictures of the scientists cheering | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
as that moment happened. It is extraordinary, you go war that way | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
and then you get crashed into the comet you have been chasing. But | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
never mind. The essential information will be beamed back to | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
Earth, we hope and scientists will be able to learn from what they have | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
found. That is right. One of the reasons why they had this crash | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
landing was to squeeze every drop of science out of this mission. All the | :54:33. | :54:43. | |
way it was descending down, it was journey which took many hours. It | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
was taking lots of pictures and gathering data. There has been the | :54:47. | :54:48. | |
two years of data it has been collecting. It has taken thousands | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
of photos over the lifetime of its mission. There was so much science. | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
The operation phase of the mission has come to an end but the science | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
phase will continue. The team think there will be enough to keep going | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
for decades. There is pride in what they have done but also sadness. We | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
have had tears this afternoon which is unusual sometimes to see from a | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
bunch of scientists but they put so much into this mission. Rebecca, | :55:15. | :55:16. | |
thank you. Here's Ellie with the | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
Week in 60 Seconds. By the end of the evening I will be | :55:24. | :55:34. | |
blamed for everything. Why not? This week saw the first US presidential | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
debate. Conference, United, we can shape the | :55:42. | :55:51. | |
future. Jeremy Corbyn's conference speech went down well apart from the | :55:52. | :56:04. | |
part where he thanked Sadiq Khan. Clive Lewis 's speech had apparently | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
been changed at the last minute to keep open the possibility of | :56:10. | :56:16. | |
scrapping Trident. Theresa May's people hit back at | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
claims that she was branded lily livid over proposed EU immigration | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
controls. Actually, she supported him with the idea of an emergency | :56:26. | :56:27. | |
brake, they said. There's just time before we go | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was, to which authority | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
has the former Liberal Democrat MP John Hemming taken his battle | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
with Birmingham Council over Is it: a) The European | :56:42. | :56:43. | |
Court of Justice? Does anyone know, I wonder? Lets ask | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
the man himself. John Hemming joins us live | :56:47. | :57:01. | |
via webcam from Birmingham. Indeed, the wonders of technology. | :57:02. | :57:12. | |
It is the article 's convention compliance commission ashlar | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
committee which is part of the United Nations. Why have you gone to | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
the United Nations? To is very important that people have access to | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
justice, that you can challenge the local authority without facing | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
ridiculous arguments like you should have met in person. We have had | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
telephones for years and years and years, so it should not be necessary | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
to meet in person to win a case. If you take my case against the | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
council, in a practical sense, I won. I took action to get the | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
council to clear up rubbish that it was refusing as a matter of policy | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
to clear up. They cleared up the rubbish but the judge decided | :57:57. | :57:58. | |
because I did not have a meeting with them at | :57:59. | :58:21. | |
which they would have told me nothing, that I should pay their | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
costs. In a couple of seconds, when will you find out when you have been | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
successful? The first step is at 5:30am tonight when I will here is | :58:29. | :58:30. | |
my case is deemed admissible. That is like the permission to appeal | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
stage at the Court of Appeal or at any court in the UK. If I get that | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
permission, then there will be further steps. You will be | :58:37. | :58:38. | |
celebrating, no doubt, if you get the United Nations to rule on the | :58:39. | :58:39. | |
fly-tipping. Thank you. The one o'clock news is starting | :58:40. | :58:41. | |
over on BBC One now. Andrew will be in Birmingham on | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
Sunday with the Sunday Politics live from the Conservative Party | :58:47. | :58:48. | |
Conference and, if that's not enough, I'll be on the Westminster | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
Hour on Radio 4 on Sunday evening. | :58:52. | :58:55. |