21/11/2016 Daily Politics


21/11/2016

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Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:38.

Change is in the air, says Theresa May, as she warns

:00:39.:00:42.

businesses they have to behave responsibly if they want

:00:43.:00:44.

She's been addressing business leaders at the CBI's annual

:00:45.:00:49.

conference this morning, but has she already backed away

:00:50.:00:51.

from controversial plans to put workers on company boards?

:00:52.:00:57.

Jeremy Corbyn accuses the Government of fanning the flames

:00:58.:00:59.

of fear over immigration, and says he won't

:01:00.:01:01.

But will his own policy win over the voters?

:01:02.:01:07.

There's been a surprise result as French voters choose

:01:08.:01:10.

the centre-right candidate for presidential

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So is this man on course to win, and what does it mean

:01:13.:01:19.

And Donald Trump thinks Scotland's a special place,

:01:20.:01:25.

but it's not just because he owns a golf course there.

:01:26.:01:28.

We'll be talking about the Scottish roots of the President-elect.

:01:29.:01:34.

All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole

:01:35.:01:39.

of the programme today it's the Conservative

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MEP Daniel Hannan - he's been described as the man

:01:42.:01:44.

who brought you Brexit - and the Labour MP Cat Smith -

:01:45.:01:46.

she only entered Parliament last year, but she's already joined

:01:47.:01:49.

Jeremy Corbyn's top team as Shadow Minister

:01:50.:01:51.

First today, let's turn to France, where ex-President Nicolas Sarkozy

:01:52.:01:57.

has been knocked out of a primary to choose the presidential

:01:58.:02:02.

candidate of the centre-right Republican party.

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The surprise result has put Francois Fillon,

:02:05.:02:10.

who served as Mr Sarkozy's prime minister, in poll position to win

:02:11.:02:12.

He faces Alain Juppe, another ex-Prime Minister

:02:13.:02:17.

The winner will compete in next year's presidential election,

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and if the polls are to be believed they are likely to end up competing

:02:24.:02:26.

for France's top job against far-right leader Marine Le

:02:27.:02:28.

Well, to find out more we're joined by our correspondent

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How much of an upset was this? Well, it was supposed to be for many in

:02:33.:02:45.

Cirque du Soleil's circle. The -- Sexual Assault Referral Centre

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circle, some thought he would never come back, he had given reasons for

:02:50.:02:54.

why for example that he didn't appear prompt innocent in politics

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after he served as President during the time of the global financial

:02:59.:03:01.

crisis, his point he was making was, he was at a loss because of events

:03:02.:03:09.

he could not control. He tried to become President in gone 12. He says

:03:10.:03:12.

he didn't go as right-wing as he wanted to. He went all out. Some

:03:13.:03:19.

would see him taking an approach of Marine Le Pen, looking at Donald

:03:20.:03:22.

Trump as well. He said things he like he wanted to see the banning of

:03:23.:03:28.

the burqa on the beaches of France, the banning of the anybody cab in

:03:29.:03:32.

school, if you refused to eat pork you wouldn't be able to have special

:03:33.:03:35.

school meals as children through school. He had taken what should

:03:36.:03:41.

woman say, particular nationalistic, pop his tick approach and it didn't

:03:42.:03:44.

work. We have the two men, Francois Fillon, a. Toer Prime Minister who

:03:45.:03:49.

wants to make his own reformed and Alain Juppe. The older politician a

:03:50.:03:54.

former Prime Minister. What about the five referendums that have been

:03:55.:03:59.

suggested, what are they? Well, this is something that Francois Fillon

:04:00.:04:03.

wants to see, that he said he wants to see from everything from a

:04:04.:04:06.

referendum when it comes to immigration, when it comes to the

:04:07.:04:11.

domestic issues like the budget, and he has questioned the idea of an

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agreement with the UK, the current situation when it comes to call lay

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and the border police, British border police being on the French

:04:20.:04:24.

side. These are some of the different reforms, the five

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referendums he wans to see and he is notable Francois Fillon, he takes a

:04:29.:04:33.

more pro-Russian stance than any of the other EU leaders, he criticised

:04:34.:04:38.

Nato for saying it was meddling, exacerbating the problem with

:04:39.:04:41.

Russia, so I think he will be a different face, and a face that many

:04:42.:04:45.

would see if he were to make it the through as President, as perhaps

:04:46.:04:48.

unpredictable on that front as Donald Trump, and he is somebody who

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would, with links to the UK who has been called a Thatcherite. Someone

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who wants to cut the civil service, he wants to reduce what he sees are

:04:59.:05:03.

the inflexibility of the French working week, so make overtime

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possible, the talk of working on a Sunday as well. It so there is a lot

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of changes he wants to make, whereas who he is up against next Sunday,

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the run off for their party in the Presidential debate is going to be

:05:16.:05:20.

Alain Juppe, seen as more safe pair of hands but perhaps some would say

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that is his curse as well. Thank you very much.

:05:25.:05:27.

Do you welcome the fact Francois Fillon topped that poll and could

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face Marine Le Pen rather than Alain Juppe. Yes, he will be what France

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needs. He is a reformer. The fact of France is the French state has not

:05:40.:05:45.

had a balanced budget since 1974. No-one has really tried to tackle

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that. You know, we have an immediate interest, in the prosperity of

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France. They are friends and allies and prosperous neighbours make good

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customer, I am cautiously optimistic, it threw up the result

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that was needed. Do you think he can beat Marine Le Pen? I hope, so

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because Marine Le Pen has set her face against any reform, apart from

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what she says about migration and so on, she is also well to the left of

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the socialist whence it comes to economics, she wants hiring pensions

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and higher Social Security spending and so on, and we are separated by a

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short stretch of water. France in economic collapse is bound to be bad

:06:28.:06:31.

for us whereas recovering is good for us. Cat to the left of the

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socialist whence it comes to economics, she wants hiring pensions

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and higher Social Security spending and so on, and we are separated by a

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short stretch of water. France in economic collapse is bound to be bad

:06:42.:06:44.

for us whereas recovering is good for us. Cat Smith, do you think to

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the left of the socialist whence it comes to economics, she wants hiring

:06:48.:06:49.

pensions and higher Social Security spending and so on, and we are

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separated by a short stretch of water. France in economic collapse

:06:53.:06:54.

is bound to be bad for us whereas recovering is good for us. Cat

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Smith, do you think a "Quick divorce account "Would be good for the UK?

:06:58.:07:00.

It would be better to have a full two-year negotiation, I don't think

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a quick divorce to use the quote would be necessarily the advantage

:07:03.:07:05.

of the UK, what has been thrown up in the French elections is that this

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is the time to not be an establishment candidate, I think

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that the voters across western Europe are looking for outsiders and

:07:10.:07:12.

people that are perceived to be not part of that political class.

:07:13.:07:14.

Whoever is selected has a real fight on their hands. You think Marine Le

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Pen has a good chance? I am afraid I think she has a very good chance and

:07:19.:07:20.

we need the strongest candidate possible. She is not good news for

:07:21.:07:23.

Europe. Who would be the strongest candidate possible? To be honest, I

:07:24.:07:26.

don't know and I would like to back any candidate, that is for the

:07:27.:07:29.

French to decide. The socialists don't seem to be in... They have

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withdrawn. But the fact that Francois Fillon got a massive vote,

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he won pretty much every region of Metropolitan France, suggested that

:07:39.:07:41.

he does have some appeal. That is encunning. The primaries have had a

:07:42.:07:47.

bad time since Donald Trump. So have referendums if you are the person

:07:48.:07:51.

calling them. If we think of David Cameron, he lost his own referendum.

:07:52.:07:55.

Do you think they are a good idea to put the sort of referendums that

:07:56.:07:58.

Francois Fillon is suggesting? Of the people who call them. I am not

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saying the right or wrong way. Referendums are a good idea. It is

:08:04.:08:06.

better to trust people. In way you have made the point. Occasionally

:08:07.:08:09.

politicians don't get the answer they want. Well that is healthy,

:08:10.:08:14.

that is necessary in a system, so otherwise we have an o towards I can

:08:15.:08:19.

with a tiny number get to decide everything. Countries that have

:08:20.:08:24.

referendums and make the most use do well, at the top of list is

:08:25.:08:27.

well, at the top of list is Switzerland.

:08:28.:08:29.

The question for today is what appears on the cushions in

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Or d) An embroidered image of the Mexican border?

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At the end of the show Cat and Dan will give us the correct answer.

:08:49.:08:51.

It's the Confederation of British Industry's annual

:08:52.:08:53.

conference today in central London, and both Theresa May and Jeremy

:08:54.:08:56.

The Prime Minister set out her stall to business leaders this morning,

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and Jeremy Corbyn will appear in front of delegates later.

:09:01.:09:02.

While previous Conservative leaders have sought to reduce state

:09:03.:09:04.

intervention, Theresa May has made it clear she intends to, in her

:09:05.:09:07.

So let's look at some of the business policies that have

:09:08.:09:17.

been rolling off the Government's production line so far.

:09:18.:09:27.

Today at the CBI, she offered business a "grand bargain",

:09:28.:09:31.

proposing investment and tax cuts in exchange for help

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dealing with the worst excesses of capitalism.

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Mrs May said the Government is offering an industrial strategy

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that will include an extra ?2 billion a year by 2020 to support

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She also pledged to ensure that the corporation tax rate

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But in return, she said business also needs to change and that

:09:54.:09:57.

a small minority "appear to game the system and work to a different

:09:58.:10:00.

Her plans to reform capitalism include representing works

:10:01.:10:08.

on company boards and giving shareholders a binding

:10:09.:10:10.

Politicians don't get the answer they want. Well that is healthy,

:10:11.:10:23.

that is necessary in a system, so otherwise we have an o towards I can

:10:24.:10:26.

with a tiny number get to decide everything. Countries that have

:10:27.:10:28.

referendums and make the most use do well, at the top of list is

:10:29.:10:30.

Switzerland. Jeremy Corbyn will say more state intervention is needed.

:10:31.:10:32.

which would see a Labour government borrow hundreds of billions

:10:33.:10:34.

of pounds to invest in long-term infrastructure projects.

:10:35.:10:40.

If we support free markets, value capitalism, and at business,

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and we do, we must do everything we can to keep faith with them.

:10:43.:10:49.

And with not enough people feeling that they share

:10:50.:10:51.

in the wealth created by capitalism, and with the recent behaviour

:10:52.:10:54.

of a small minority of businesses and business leaders undermining

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the reputation of the corporate world as a whole, the way to keep

:10:57.:10:59.

Well, we're joined now by the director general

:11:00.:11:15.

Thank you for joining us Theresa May says she is offering the business

:11:16.:11:24.

community a grand bargain, is that good from your perspective? Well, we

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hugely welcome today what is a really pro enterprise speech, that

:11:31.:11:34.

is setting out a vision for the UK, which put innovation and invention

:11:35.:11:37.

at the heart, is talking about the value of free market, we welcome

:11:38.:11:41.

that, at the same time, yes, the Prime Minister is talking about a

:11:42.:11:45.

social contract, businesses recognise that, and are here to rise

:11:46.:11:48.

to the challenge of making that work. But an extra ?2 billion a year

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by 2020 of investment in research and development, you are going to

:11:54.:11:58.

welcome that, but it is really a grand bargain, I mean the Labour

:11:59.:12:02.

Party is offering ?500 billion over ten years? Well, I think that what

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she has set out this morning is something which is, she talks about

:12:09.:12:12.

industrial strategy which is about creating the enable hers for a

:12:13.:12:18.

strong economy, raising productivity across the UK. The innovation part

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is part of that. The skills agenda, infrastructure, connecting our

:12:25.:12:27.

cities in the north and south, these are all other parts of the picture,

:12:28.:12:31.

and we look forward to the Autumn Statement on Wednesday to see a bit

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more of that plan. You are happy with the ?2 billion figure although

:12:38.:12:42.

not starting until 2012. A bargain is a bargain, is it two way. Theresa

:12:43.:12:47.

May says some businesses play to a different set of rules, is that

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fair? There are some businesses that are not playing straight. I think it

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is up to all businesses to call that out. Because it does affect and

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tarnish the reputation of the many, so, this is something we welcome, I

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think it is an area where businesses can step up, take a lead, and reform

:13:08.:13:13.

in areas where it can be, we can prevent the actions of the two, of

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the few from tarnishing the reputation of the many. Which

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businesses in your mind are not being straight, if you like, to use

:13:21.:13:25.

her language? Well, I am not going to name names but it was welcome in

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the Prime Minister's speech that she recognised it was the few, and that

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it is the majority of, are good citizens, they are investing in

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community, they are sainting, they are creating jobs so it is

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recognition of the few, and that is what we need to address and the

:13:44.:13:48.

corporate governance green paper is something we welcome. I think people

:13:49.:13:51.

might say it is easy to say there are some businesses that don't play

:13:52.:13:54.

by the rules and they need to be called out. If nobody is going to

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name who they are or the areas in which the rules are not being

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adhered to, do they exist? Is that sort of false bogey man put up here

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unless you are prepared to say who they are? I don't think, so we have

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strong rule, we have very good corporate governance, it recognised

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world the round as being strong, but where that happens, I think it is,

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it is an important thing, to have the right mechanisms in place, and

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by and large we really do, it is one of the areas I think the UK has seen

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globally as being strong, but there is more do, we know there are issues

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round trust and the reputation of business, this is part of the

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progress towards fixing it. We welcome it and we will be engaging

:14:40.:14:44.

very strongly on the Government's proposals in the green paper. Will

:14:45.:14:47.

be that lot of talk about forcing companies to have workers sitting on

:14:48.:14:52.

their boards, but it looks as if today Theresa May has rode back from

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that, he is is saying the views of workers should be represented. Do

:14:58.:14:58.

you remember that? This was about the representation of

:14:59.:15:11.

workers and consumers's voices. Some companies do welcome that, we

:15:12.:15:17.

have spoken to many. For some, it is the right model but it is not the

:15:18.:15:20.

only way. We welcome that the Prime Minister

:15:21.:15:25.

will set out a range of options of which that will be one, some

:15:26.:15:28.

companies will welcome that. One thing which is right is where

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companies engage really well, they are more productive. That is what we

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need to aim to achieve. The implication was that there would

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be a promise to put workers on company boards, it sounds like you

:15:45.:15:49.

pleased there won't be any element of compulsion or that it will be the

:15:50.:15:53.

only way to have their views represented.

:15:54.:15:58.

A range of options is a really good idea.

:15:59.:16:01.

Brexit, if it becomes clearer than now that the UK will pull out of the

:16:02.:16:07.

single market and Customs union, will you still welcomed the grand

:16:08.:16:11.

bargain Theresa May has put forward today?

:16:12.:16:15.

We had to wait and see. Businesses would like more certainty. We

:16:16.:16:19.

understand why it is not possible at the moment. We would like to see

:16:20.:16:23.

transitional arrangements so companies most affected have time to

:16:24.:16:26.

prepare. One thing we welcome today is she

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has said when she can say something she will.

:16:33.:16:36.

That is what businesses need to know, that they are being listened

:16:37.:16:39.

to. When will that happen? Well, we are

:16:40.:16:47.

looking over the next few months, triggering Article 50 by the end of

:16:48.:16:51.

March, the timetable the Government has set out. We look forward to when

:16:52.:16:58.

they have something to say. The uncertainty is affecting investment

:16:59.:17:01.

and will be important for dad to be a plan quickly.

:17:02.:17:07.

Every indication has shown that they are favouring pulling out of the

:17:08.:17:13.

single market, in a way, they do not see leaving the EU unless we pull

:17:14.:17:18.

out of the single market and the customs union, how worried would you

:17:19.:17:23.

be by that? Language is important. We talk about

:17:24.:17:28.

barrier free access to the single market which matters for businesses,

:17:29.:17:33.

to trade without tariffs, nontariff barriers around regulation. It is an

:17:34.:17:38.

important principle and we want this to be set out as an important

:17:39.:17:42.

priority. The customs union is a trade-off

:17:43.:17:48.

between, we would like to do new free trade deals with India, China,

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US. The implications for red tape at Borders is significant sum.

:17:56.:18:00.

What we are saying to Government is, consult with business, you will hear

:18:01.:18:06.

different views and the evidence. Theresa May has been back on her

:18:07.:18:09.

plans to have workers on company boards. She is offering only ?2

:18:10.:18:11.

billion. By 2020. Is this a paltry offering?

:18:12.:18:24.

No, she is saying the right things. We have a protectionist European

:18:25.:18:28.

Commission and White House. Somebody needs to be making the case of free

:18:29.:18:32.

trade, free accommodation. That will be the UK. She is right

:18:33.:18:37.

that the climate in which to make that case is not friendly.

:18:38.:18:42.

The extraordinary thing is there has never been a better time to be a

:18:43.:18:47.

human being, extreme poverty has fallen down to 8% because African

:18:48.:18:52.

and Asian countries have joined the global market. These idealistic

:18:53.:18:58.

people are picketing G7 meetings, so she needs to make the argument in a

:18:59.:19:02.

way that shows free trade is not about benefiting big culprits but

:19:03.:19:09.

poverty alleviation, social justice, conflict resolution.

:19:10.:19:12.

Many think the opposite, that they had been left behind. It is the

:19:13.:19:21.

reality. Cat Smith, where do you stand in terms of this industrial

:19:22.:19:25.

policy Jeremy Corbyn has talked about, ?500 billion, how would it

:19:26.:19:28.

work? It is clear we need to listen to

:19:29.:19:35.

business, and if we listened to Carolyn Fairbairn, there is a sense

:19:36.:19:39.

of uncertainty from business. Whilst Theresa May says the right things

:19:40.:19:44.

around people feeling left behind by globalisation, it needs to be

:19:45.:19:49.

followed through with assurance that the gap between the very richest and

:19:50.:19:55.

poorest does not expand in the way it is. Down is by to say when it

:19:56.:19:59.

comes to looking at extreme poverty, that has happened, but when people

:20:00.:20:06.

see people getting richer, they feel very much like the haves and

:20:07.:20:12.

have-nots. Some people do not feel they have any opportunity.

:20:13.:20:18.

If they don't have opportunities, with putting workers on company

:20:19.:20:22.

boards make them feel better? The best businesses I note in my

:20:23.:20:25.

constituency, with a good relationship with the workforce.

:20:26.:20:31.

What about the worker on a company board?

:20:32.:20:34.

That ensures the voice of the workforce is heard in those

:20:35.:20:37.

important decisions and I support it.

:20:38.:20:42.

Was it a mistake to write back from it?

:20:43.:20:45.

No. That is what she promised initially.

:20:46.:20:49.

There should be a presumption of innocence. Companies want to be

:20:50.:20:52.

successful, they do not need legislation for that.

:20:53.:20:57.

The difference between what executives are paid...

:20:58.:21:00.

There is a case for tweaking the corporate Government rules to

:21:01.:21:05.

encourage shareholders to think of themselves and behave like

:21:06.:21:09.

proprietors rather than investors. With a couple of minor changes, some

:21:10.:21:14.

of which we were hearing from the Business Secretary, allowing

:21:15.:21:17.

shareholders to vote definitively on executive pay, this isn't

:21:18.:21:23.

corporatism, the state taking over companies, but a couple of

:21:24.:21:27.

improvements will yield huge dividends.

:21:28.:21:30.

You heard what she had to say about Carolyn Fairbairn about Brexit, and

:21:31.:21:35.

tariff free access to the single market. You think it could be sunny

:21:36.:21:41.

uplands if we come out, but the business community does not agree

:21:42.:21:45.

with you. They have a right to disagree. I am

:21:46.:21:50.

not sure that is what Carolyn was saying, she looked forward to doing

:21:51.:21:54.

trade deals with the US, China... And of course it is complicated but

:21:55.:21:58.

the ability to do free trade agreements with the biggest

:21:59.:22:03.

economies of the world, the US and China, is a pretty big game.

:22:04.:22:08.

All the growth this century is outside the EU. We should be free to

:22:09.:22:12.

do our own trade deals. She is right we want access to the

:22:13.:22:18.

single market. Tariff free access. And I don't hear

:22:19.:22:22.

any voices from any serious politician on either side of the

:22:23.:22:28.

channel proposing that. Why are we fretting about something no one is

:22:29.:22:30.

suggesting? Because they say in European

:22:31.:22:34.

countries they don't know what the country wants until they have heard

:22:35.:22:38.

from Theresa May. Jeremy Corbyn will outline his plans

:22:39.:22:43.

for the ?500 billion of investment, a massive amount of borrowing.

:22:44.:22:50.

Labour would be maxing out on the nation's credit card.

:22:51.:22:52.

Economists say this is the best time to borrow, it has never been so

:22:53.:22:55.

cheap. It has been low for a long time.

:22:56.:23:01.

There is a case, if we don't invest, we can't grow our economy.

:23:02.:23:07.

Austerity has failed. Six wasted years under this Government whereby

:23:08.:23:11.

actually the vast majority of people, their wages have been held

:23:12.:23:20.

low, prompt activity is stagnating -- Productivity.

:23:21.:23:22.

That is not fair, we have had more jobs created in this country than

:23:23.:23:27.

the whole of the EU. Productivity levels have been low in

:23:28.:23:32.

this country, there has been wage stagnation. People are predicting it

:23:33.:23:36.

will go down again. Given where we were starting from,

:23:37.:23:42.

squeezing out that debt, we did well compared to every other

:23:43.:23:44.

industrialised country in the world. I am bullish it will carry on, we

:23:45.:23:50.

are well equipped, I see a great future for us, driverless cars,

:23:51.:23:57.

biotech, 3D printing, we are a very inventive people.

:23:58.:23:59.

Over the weekend, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn again rejected calls

:24:00.:24:01.

by some in his party to pledge to cut immigration, saying

:24:02.:24:04.

he would not make "false promises" like the Conservatives.

:24:05.:24:06.

Instead he favours measures to mitigate the impact of migration.

:24:07.:24:08.

Here he is talking to his party's national policy forum

:24:09.:24:11.

Politicians and political parties have a choice in this age

:24:12.:24:17.

Do we play on people's fears and anxieties?

:24:18.:24:24.

Or do we take what might be the more difficult approach?

:24:25.:24:27.

We can see the choice being taken by politicians on the hard right,

:24:28.:24:35.

to whip up division against migrants, Muslims,

:24:36.:24:40.

Mexicans, women, LGBT people, people with disabilities.

:24:41.:24:49.

The fake anti-elitism of rich white men like Nigel Farage

:24:50.:24:52.

and Donald Trump is farcical at one level, but in reality it is no

:24:53.:24:55.

So, is the party's position on immigration and freedom

:24:56.:24:59.

Well, perhaps not entirely - the Shadow Brexit Secretary,

:25:00.:25:04.

Kier Starmer, has said immigration is too high, but last week

:25:05.:25:07.

Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott warned against trying to "out

:25:08.:25:11.

She said the idea that Labour was losing voters to the Tories

:25:12.:25:18.

or Ukip because of immigration was false.

:25:19.:25:20.

Well, to talk about this we're joined by the Labour MP Ian Austin.

:25:21.:25:23.

Take that on board, are you losing voters to the Tories and Ukip

:25:24.:25:32.

because of immigration? For a long time, people in the

:25:33.:25:38.

country, in particular, parts of the Midlands, the Black Country that I

:25:39.:25:42.

represent, think London based politicians have not been listening

:25:43.:25:46.

to their concerns on immigration. We heard Diane last week visiting this

:25:47.:25:54.

false choice, that to listen to people on immigration to come up

:25:55.:25:57.

with fair answers to their concerns is in some way trying to out Ukip.

:25:58.:26:03.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We have to listen to local

:26:04.:26:06.

people and their concerns and do the hard work of coming up with

:26:07.:26:11.

reasonable answers in line with our values. That is totally different

:26:12.:26:16.

from the approach Ukip take. Does Jeremy Corbyn understands the

:26:17.:26:20.

concerns of many Labour voters about levels of immigration?

:26:21.:26:25.

Jeremy listens to Labour MPs from up and down the country. I hear those

:26:26.:26:31.

comments and recognise, but I constituents are telling me the same

:26:32.:26:36.

Ian is hearing. People are worried about immigration, concerned about

:26:37.:26:40.

their wages being undercut, strains on public services.

:26:41.:26:45.

We need to start talking about immigration in an open and honest

:26:46.:26:48.

way. The reality is, without levels of

:26:49.:26:53.

immigration, you can't have public services and the NHS functioning. We

:26:54.:26:57.

need to be honest and say there needs to be immigration but we need

:26:58.:27:02.

to make sure the consequences on communities are not that they can't

:27:03.:27:05.

get a school place or the waiting list at hospitals all GPs are not

:27:06.:27:11.

long. Do you think the Labour Party has

:27:12.:27:18.

done enough to mitigate some of the effects of immigration on

:27:19.:27:21.

communities like yours? Clearly, we haven't. We should be

:27:22.:27:26.

taking the benefits that well-paid migrants bring to the country, city

:27:27.:27:30.

traders, hedge fund dealers in London, using the taxes they pay, to

:27:31.:27:36.

relieve the pressure low paid migration can cause to the NHS and

:27:37.:27:41.

schools in areas like the Black Country. We should insist further

:27:42.:27:45.

that every time a large company has to take on a skilled foreign worker

:27:46.:27:50.

from abroad because they can't find those in this country, they should

:27:51.:27:55.

take on an apprentice as well. Much more to deport foreign criminals, we

:27:56.:28:02.

should bring back fingerprinting for illegal immigrants at Calais,

:28:03.:28:05.

abolished by this Government. Much more on the Border Force which

:28:06.:28:11.

again was cut by this Government. We should say people should not be

:28:12.:28:18.

able to come here and be unemployed, or claim benefits, until they have

:28:19.:28:22.

worked and paid into the system, or claim benefits for Jordan not in the

:28:23.:28:24.

country. There are lots of things we can do

:28:25.:28:29.

based on values of hard work, was was witty and contribution, 1

:28:30.:28:34.

million miles away from Ukip. Diane presented this false choice of

:28:35.:28:38.

listening to people on immigration that you are aping the far right,

:28:39.:28:42.

that is nonsense. Jeremy Corbyn believes it is not

:28:43.:28:47.

about the numbers, that people are concerned about the numbers of

:28:48.:28:51.

immigrants coming to the UK, is he wrong?

:28:52.:29:02.

Look at what happened with the countries, the Government estimated

:29:03.:29:04.

the numbers wrong lead which have different effects in the country.

:29:05.:29:08.

Politicians in London need to get out of London, come to areas like

:29:09.:29:13.

the Black Country and listen to ordinary people.

:29:14.:29:16.

These people are not racist, they have perfectly legitimate concerns.

:29:17.:29:21.

It is about time politicians started listening to them and responding.

:29:22.:29:29.

Diane Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn, London based MPs with a different view of

:29:30.:29:33.

the world to constituencies in other parts of the country. Therefore they

:29:34.:29:37.

don't understand or appreciate the level of concern Ian Austin has

:29:38.:29:41.

outlined. Do you to see lower levels of immigration to the UK?

:29:42.:29:48.

Regarding London, immigration plays activity in the country. But I don't

:29:49.:29:51.

think there is anything in is saying is not incompatible with the vast

:29:52.:29:57.

majority... There is a lot of common ground.

:29:58.:30:06.

Do you want to see low levels of immigration, like Keir Starmer and

:30:07.:30:12.

Ian Austin, or do you agree with Jeremy Corbyn, that it is not about

:30:13.:30:16.

the numbers? I won't be drawn on the numbers but what I will say is...

:30:17.:30:21.

Why not? They have a lot of common ground on this. People want to know

:30:22.:30:25.

about the numbers, it is a straightforward question, do you

:30:26.:30:28.

want to see low levels or do you want to see them about the same or

:30:29.:30:33.

more? I think where immigration benefits this country it should be

:30:34.:30:36.

welcomed and the fact is people who are migrants in this country are

:30:37.:30:41.

more likely to put more into the economy than take out in welfare. It

:30:42.:30:46.

is migrants who add to our chances of success as a country, I won't be

:30:47.:30:52.

attacking anyone who is a migrant in this country because the migrants in

:30:53.:30:56.

my community are the ones who contribute the most. But that is not

:30:57.:31:00.

the say it, people do have concerns and fears and I think that, I have

:31:01.:31:04.

had it from my constituencies and Ian has had it from his, that is a

:31:05.:31:09.

problem, that we need to address as a party because for a very long time

:31:10.:31:13.

we did try and dodge the issue about talking about immigration. Do you

:31:14.:31:17.

think now that Government of any colour would have to do something

:31:18.:31:21.

about the numbers, of people cough coming to the UK or can you do more

:31:22.:31:26.

as Cat Smith and Ian awes the inare saying to address the impact, and

:31:27.:31:31.

not focus on the numbers? I think there is a feeling that immigration

:31:32.:31:34.

is out of control, and people want to feel that we should be backing

:31:35.:31:39.

control of who comes in, and roughly in what numbers, please don't make

:31:40.:31:44.

the mistake of attributing false motives to people. The people who

:31:45.:31:48.

have argued that, as Ian Austin says are not in the least bit racist,

:31:49.:31:52.

they want to have controlled, legal immigration when it benefits the

:31:53.:31:56.

economy. And lower? I think probably slightly lower than recently, I

:31:57.:32:00.

suspect that will happen any way. I think many voters would light it to

:32:01.:32:07.

be a lot lower. There is a tiny number who want drastic cuts. I

:32:08.:32:11.

don't recognise that. There was a poll last month said 88% of people

:32:12.:32:19.

want skilled worker to come here, so this is about being able to sift who

:32:20.:32:25.

we allow in, to benefit from the energy and enterprise and to be fair

:32:26.:32:30.

to non-EU immigrants to people of Commonwealth backgrounds who find

:32:31.:32:33.

they are discriminated against. Jeremy Corbyn is clear, there will

:32:34.:32:37.

be no targets or limits on iminvestigation after Brexit, as far

:32:38.:32:40.

as he is concerned, if he was in charge, is he right on that 1234

:32:41.:32:44.

Look, I think all the parties really need to wake up and listen to what

:32:45.:32:48.

people in place like the Black Country are saying about this.

:32:49.:32:53.

Politics would be simple, wouldn't it, if I would say isn't the NHS

:32:54.:32:59.

great, aren't the Tories terrible, but that is not what politics is

:33:00.:33:03.

like, what we have do is listen to people's genuine and deeply held

:33:04.:33:07.

concerns and do the hard work of coming up with fair and reasonable

:33:08.:33:13.

answers to address them. I think by ghising this and or saying we won't

:33:14.:33:17.

enter into debate or focus on concern people have, that would be a

:33:18.:33:21.

disaster for Labour in this Parliament just as it was in the

:33:22.:33:22.

last one. Thank you. Now, all eyes will be

:33:23.:33:23.

on the House of Commons and Chancellor Phillip Hammond

:33:24.:33:27.

as he delivered his first autumn So let's take a look at that

:33:28.:33:29.

and the other political events likely to be making

:33:30.:33:33.

the news this week. When the Commons gets

:33:34.:33:36.

going this afternoon, MPs will be debating

:33:37.:33:38.

the Higher Education and Research Bill, and Labour

:33:39.:33:39.

will be attempting to make a number of amendments, including bringing

:33:40.:33:42.

back students' maintenance grants. On Tuesday, the Office

:33:43.:33:47.

for National Statistics publishes its latest set of data

:33:48.:33:48.

on the state of the UK's Wednesday sees Prime Minister's

:33:49.:33:51.

Questions at noon, but the big event of the day is the Autumn Statement

:33:52.:34:05.

from Chancellor Phlip Hammond. This is his first big set-piece

:34:06.:34:07.

statement in the Commons, and he's said he wants to make

:34:08.:34:10.

the UK economy "watertight" to cope The Shadow Chancellor John

:34:11.:34:13.

McDonnell will respond, and after the statement,

:34:14.:34:15.

the independent Office for Budget Responsibility -

:34:16.:34:17.

the official economic watchdog - publishes its latest

:34:18.:34:19.

Economic and Fiscal Outlook. Then on Thursday it'll be the turn

:34:20.:34:23.

of the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies to give

:34:24.:34:26.

their take on the Mr Hammond's work - a view which usually

:34:27.:34:29.

has a big impact on how On Friday, the Women's Equality

:34:30.:34:32.

Party hold their first every three-day conference -

:34:33.:34:35.

that's in Manchester. And with me now to discuss

:34:36.:34:43.

all of that are Laura Hughes, from the Daily Telegraph,

:34:44.:34:46.

and the Daily Mirror's Ben Glaze. Dismissing this and or saying we

:34:47.:34:51.

won't enter into debate or focus on concern people have, that would be a

:34:52.:34:53.

disaster for Labour in this Parliament just as it was in the

:34:54.:34:55.

last one. Thank you. Welcome. What you expect from Philip

:34:56.:34:58.

Hammond, often known as spread sheet Phil? We know a bit about what is

:34:59.:35:01.

going to be coming uple he has talked about infrastructure, putting

:35:02.:35:03.

money into developing roads and our transport systems in this country,

:35:04.:35:07.

we also know he will be introducing a ban on pension cold calling, there

:35:08.:35:14.

is going to be a crackdown on workers' perk, mobile phone

:35:15.:35:18.

contracts things like that, there will be a focus on Jams, so we will

:35:19.:35:28.

see tax cuts for those people and a freeze on fuel duty. Those are the

:35:29.:35:31.

main things we can hope to expect. That is comprehensive. Let us look

:35:32.:35:36.

at the future growth prospects. It a big moment when we hear from the

:35:37.:35:39.

Office for Budget Responsibility, and it will give us a slightly

:35:40.:35:42.

clearer idea as to what is being expected in the years ahead. That is

:35:43.:35:45.

is right. We expect some grave numbers from the OBR on Wednesday,

:35:46.:35:50.

so far the forecasts haven't been official forecasts, this will be the

:35:51.:35:53.

first time we get to see the impact of Brexit, on those public finances,

:35:54.:35:58.

on growth, and we can find out exactly how much a black hole is

:35:59.:36:02.

likely to be in the Treasury coffers after we lever the EU. Current

:36:03.:36:07.

projections are it might be about 1 hundred billion he will have to

:36:08.:36:11.

find, those are huge numbers for the Chancellor delivering his first

:36:12.:36:13.

Autumn Statement. Brexit will loom large, in fact it will no doubt be a

:36:14.:36:17.

thread running through the whole Autumn Statement. He has talked

:36:18.:36:23.

about uncertainty in the past, bumps in the road, perhaps they weren't

:36:24.:36:27.

his words but in terms of the current data we have now, there

:36:28.:36:31.

doesn't seem to have been that much bad news coming the Government's way

:36:32.:36:35.

There is consumer confidence but Philip Hammond was doing the rounds

:36:36.:36:38.

yesterday and a lot of Tory MPs accused him of being overly

:36:39.:36:42.

pessimistic, but is it right for the Chancellor for cautious or is he

:36:43.:36:46.

just a sort of half empty I kind of guy? I don't know, there are mixed

:36:47.:36:51.

figures, mixed number, some say this is great for exports so some people

:36:52.:36:55.

are doing well, others are not so sure, he is really kind of

:36:56.:36:58.

emphasising that it is the uncertainty, it is what is going to

:36:59.:37:03.

happen in the future, What about Labour's response? What will they

:37:04.:37:08.

focus on? Labour will call for the ESA cuts that are coming to be

:37:09.:37:12.

ameliorated. They want the Universal Credit cuts that are coming down the

:37:13.:37:16.

line, they want those put back, but the problem for Philip Hammond is

:37:17.:37:21.

there isn't any money left, Labour wants a massive public spending,

:37:22.:37:26.

about ?500 billion on infrastructure, John McDonnell has

:37:27.:37:29.

talked about ?250 billion invest vestment. 100 billioner, another 150

:37:30.:37:36.

billion generated from the private sectors that would put money in and

:37:37.:37:39.

get the economy growing and generate more cash for the Treasury. But the

:37:40.:37:43.

problem is there isn't that money available, and Philip Hammond is not

:37:44.:37:46.

going to have a lot to play with come Wednesday. They always complain

:37:47.:37:52.

about that. What about stories in the paper, the prospect of Tony

:37:53.:37:55.

Blair returning to front line politics, not front line but

:37:56.:37:59.

politics in order to campaign against a hard Brexit. Dismissed

:38:00.:38:05.

chip of course. Well, purportedly he is setting up an institute to

:38:06.:38:09.

influent the Brexit process. I spoke to a lot of Tory MPs who were

:38:10.:38:13.

delighted with the news that Tony Blair is coming back to argue

:38:14.:38:18.

everything they don't want, they see him has a discredited establishment

:38:19.:38:22.

type figure. I heard that over the other side of the table. There was a

:38:23.:38:28.

picture of Blair holding up the sign saying I voted Remain, I said he

:38:29.:38:34.

voted, have you. Any truth in it? It would be great for the Brexiteers to

:38:35.:38:39.

take control of the negotiations it is what they want. On that note,

:38:40.:38:44.

thank you both very much. One of our guests today has been described as

:38:45.:38:49.

the man who brought you Brexit. Indeed former Northern Ireland

:38:50.:38:55.

Secretary Theresa Villiers said she tect texted him to congratulate him.

:38:56.:38:58.

If Theresa May says Brexit means Brexit, what does Dan say it means?

:38:59.:39:03.

He has written a new book, I have it here called what next for about what

:39:04.:39:09.

necks. He has -- next. He has made a Daily Politics soapbox and here is

:39:10.:39:24.

So far, attention has focused disproportionately on our

:39:25.:39:29.

relationship with the Brussels institutions here, and with

:39:30.:39:31.

Is it going to be a hard or a soft Brexit?

:39:32.:39:37.

Are we going to have access to the single market?

:39:38.:39:40.

But, really, the answer to those questions was contained

:39:41.:39:42.

A 52-48 vote is not an instruction to end all our institutional

:39:43.:39:49.

It is an instruction to begin a phased and gradual

:39:50.:39:55.

Having taken back control, in other words, having

:39:56.:40:02.

recovered our legal supremacy, there is no reason why we shouldn't

:40:03.:40:07.

replicate some of our existing arrangements through bilateral

:40:08.:40:09.

In other words, a common market, not a common Government.

:40:10.:40:17.

No-one on either side of the Channel is seriously proposing

:40:18.:40:20.

In fact, every non-EU state in Europe except Belarus

:40:21.:40:29.

enjoys free trade with the European single market.

:40:30.:40:34.

Far more important is the question of our relations with the 165

:40:35.:40:37.

The countries that will account for almost all of the world's

:40:38.:40:41.

Here, we have an opportunity to do something bold and beautiful.

:40:42.:40:51.

We can become, in the Prime Minister's phrase, the global

:40:52.:40:53.

Genuinely unrestricted commerce, based on mutual product recognition,

:40:54.:41:06.

rather than the imposition of common stantdards,

:41:07.:41:08.

will do more to raise living standards in developing countries,

:41:09.:41:10.

Instead of coming at a cost to British taxpayers,

:41:11.:41:21.

it will bring benefit to British consumers.

:41:22.:41:27.

And the biggest benefits will be felt by the people on the lowest

:41:28.:41:31.

incomes who stand to gain the most proportionally from cheaper prices.

:41:32.:41:39.

Back in charge of our own affairs, we can make Britain the best place

:41:40.:41:42.

We can have lower, flatter, simpler taxes.

:41:43.:41:45.

We can have cheap energy, lighter regulation,

:41:46.:41:47.

We have spent 44 years in a dark and cramped room.

:41:48.:41:54.

Now the door swings open and we see a little rectangle of light.

:41:55.:41:59.

As our eyes adjust, we glimpse the colours of a summer meadow

:42:00.:42:02.

beyond, with swallows diving against the blue sky

:42:03.:42:04.

Let us not hang around at the doorstep.

:42:05.:42:07.

That was Dan Hannan and he is here. I am sure he will give us more

:42:08.:42:29.

poetic lines in the next discussion. Do you accept there is still a lot

:42:30.:42:35.

of confusion around what the deal will the EU will be, because vote

:42:36.:42:38.

leave weren't clear themselves about what it would look like? I mean,

:42:39.:42:43.

that is perfectly fair, vote leave wept from the far left of the Labour

:42:44.:42:48.

Party, trade unions Ukip so there was a variety of opinions, it is

:42:49.:42:51.

unclear because a lot of people have the idea that you are either in or

:42:52.:42:56.

out of the single market, it isn't a single entity. It is an almall gap

:42:57.:43:01.

of different thing, some bits are attractive. The real basis of the

:43:02.:43:07.

single market is the prohibition on goods from another member state. Let

:43:08.:43:13.

us stick to your idea, that it isn't a binary decision, you say you can

:43:14.:43:18.

have other options but you are in as a member or you are not. You are

:43:19.:43:23.

not. That is not true. It is a conglomerateration over many years

:43:24.:43:26.

of lots of different responsibilities and obligation,

:43:27.:43:29.

some of which work for the benefit of the consumer, some which bring

:43:30.:43:34.

down price, some are very bad for us, the common external tariff. That

:43:35.:43:40.

assumes we can pick or choose. There won't be that, but in among this

:43:41.:43:44.

confusion that you have conceded existed because there are a

:43:45.:43:47.

different range of views, doesn't mean that Parliament should have a

:43:48.:43:52.

say? No-one questions that, that was very clear. But a vote now

:43:53.:43:57.

triggering Article 50. They want another vote. Fine, if that keeps

:43:58.:44:02.

everybody happy, let's do it. It is not a binary decision if your mind,

:44:03.:44:08.

but let us listen to what you said regarding the single market last

:44:09.:44:09.

year. Absolutely nobody is talking about

:44:10.:44:11.

threatening our place in the single You said nobody was talking about

:44:12.:44:20.

that, but people were, and to clear up for our viewers this was put out

:44:21.:44:26.

by the group Open Europe, do you think we should leave the single

:44:27.:44:31.

market or don't you? You saw that filleted by your colleague Andrew

:44:32.:44:35.

Neil yesterday. I will say one more time, there are aspects of the

:44:36.:44:38.

single market I think we should keep, we should however leave the

:44:39.:44:43.

customs union and leave the jurisdiction of the European Court

:44:44.:44:46.

of Justice, you say it is, why should the other countries do that?

:44:47.:44:51.

Let us tray and not be part of... It sets a precedent to everybody else.

:44:52.:44:55.

We will all behave out of our rational self-interest. What makes

:44:56.:44:59.

you think that? Generally I find in diplomacy decisions are made on the

:45:00.:45:03.

basis of present interest rather than past grudges and just as it is

:45:04.:45:07.

in our interest to have prosperous neighbours who are good customers it

:45:08.:45:12.

is not in anyone's interest in Europe to have a trade war. That

:45:13.:45:16.

means giving us everything you have outlined. You said there wasn't any

:45:17.:45:20.

digs about leaving the single market, but you do want to leave

:45:21.:45:24.

parts of it. You want everyone to accept the vision that you have for

:45:25.:45:28.

the single market, if we were to be like Norway which I think at times

:45:29.:45:32.

you thought was a good model we would have to accept the rules of

:45:33.:45:36.

the EU, freedom of movement and contribution the EU budget.

:45:37.:45:42.

I have made it clear all the way through, Norway or the destiny

:45:43.:45:49.

preferable, is not nearly as good as Switzerland outside and we should

:45:50.:45:53.

aim to do something better. The broad model should be something

:45:54.:45:58.

closer to the Swiss rather than Norway. I am not in favour of

:45:59.:46:03.

drawing -- Joining the economic economic area.

:46:04.:46:12.

And some freedom of movement? We will have to find a compromise. As I

:46:13.:46:19.

said, no one is talking about screwing the tab completely shut.

:46:20.:46:22.

Going back to the old will you needed a job to come to, 70,000 EU

:46:23.:46:28.

nationals came looking for work in the UK last year. That would be a

:46:29.:46:33.

major impact on migration and make a distinction on the people being let

:46:34.:46:35.

in. Do you agree we will be able to have

:46:36.:46:44.

our cake and eat it, pick some parts of the single market we would like

:46:45.:46:48.

to keep? I like the optimism from down but in

:46:49.:46:57.

the world of reality there will be a move in Europe to punish us for the

:46:58.:47:01.

decision we have made to leave. They don't want to get the message you

:47:02.:47:04.

can leave the EU and keep the bits you like and get rid of those you

:47:05.:47:10.

don't. I worry we will be punished. In which case it is a protection

:47:11.:47:14.

racket. Thank goodness we are leaving. And

:47:15.:47:20.

we will have to lead the bits that are positive? The price we are

:47:21.:47:26.

paying to completely leave... I think they will behave out of self

:47:27.:47:29.

interest, I don't expect any favours.

:47:30.:47:35.

The German finance minister said there is no a la carte menu, the

:47:36.:47:40.

whole menu or none. The Dutch finance minister said Boris Johnson,

:47:41.:47:47.

what he is offering our options are not available.

:47:48.:47:50.

On the basis it may be rhetoric, they won't do what you say.

:47:51.:47:56.

That is their high opening bid. Both sides you would expect to make a

:47:57.:48:03.

high opening bid. We will end up I am pretty confident with something

:48:04.:48:07.

where we are in the free market but outside the political union. A lot

:48:08.:48:12.

of the people now... That is the common market, you said

:48:13.:48:17.

you wanted to come out of a common market.

:48:18.:48:20.

To repeat, there is a pan European free trade area, from Iceland to

:48:21.:48:26.

Turkey without tariffs. I don't think anyone is proposing Britain

:48:27.:48:30.

would be the only country apart from Belarus, that would face tariffs and

:48:31.:48:34.

trade barriers. This is the first country to have a

:48:35.:48:42.

Brexit. Donald Tusk has said the only real alternative to a hard

:48:43.:48:45.

Brexit is no Brexit. This is the incredible thing. Two

:48:46.:48:51.

thirds of people I talked to in Brussels still do not accept the

:48:52.:48:54.

result, they still think somehow Britain will come to its senses. If

:48:55.:48:59.

they are hard enough in their rhetoric that we might switch

:49:00.:49:03.

brands, that is a bad misreading of our character, when people feel they

:49:04.:49:09.

are being bullied, they go the other way.

:49:10.:49:12.

Theresa May is refusing to guarantee the residency of the millions of

:49:13.:49:18.

nationals from EU countries, should she guarantee the rights of those

:49:19.:49:22.

people now? Absolutely, these people have lived

:49:23.:49:27.

and worked and Koch beat it, had families in the UK, they deserve

:49:28.:49:31.

some level of security. There are unknowns in business but unknowns in

:49:32.:49:37.

people's lives. Hundreds of people have contacted me

:49:38.:49:42.

worried about this in my constituency. Not the most diverse

:49:43.:49:47.

of constituencies but we have many European people contributing in

:49:48.:49:50.

universities in particular who want stability.

:49:51.:49:56.

They deserve that. It means we can offer to many British people living

:49:57.:50:00.

elsewhere in Europe. I agree, so do 84% of British

:50:01.:50:05.

voters. High opening bids.

:50:06.:50:09.

Now, let's talk about some rather unusual goings-on,

:50:10.:50:11.

as the Conservatives seek to replace their MEP

:50:12.:50:12.

The vacancy arose after the last man in the job, Timothy Kirkhope,

:50:13.:50:16.

was given a seat in the Lords by David Cameron in his final

:50:17.:50:20.

It would normally go to the person who came second in the Conservative

:50:21.:50:24.

list for the region at the 2014 European elections,

:50:25.:50:26.

which in this case is former Olympic rower Alex Story.

:50:27.:50:30.

But instead, the party has chosen to hand the seat to the man

:50:31.:50:33.

who came third on the list, the Leeds councillor John Procter.

:50:34.:50:36.

Mr Story has been attempting to overturn the decision,

:50:37.:50:38.

but last week lost an attempt to block Mr Procter's

:50:39.:50:40.

How are you feeling about it all? It has been a bit of a shock.

:50:41.:50:58.

Historically in the UK we have physical representation underpinned

:50:59.:51:05.

by a democratic process. I won the support of the Yorkshire

:51:06.:51:09.

Conservative membership. I was on the ballot box. I campaigned in that

:51:10.:51:14.

capacity as number two on the list, I want 127,000 votes. What happened

:51:15.:51:19.

last week is that the Conservative Party Central office decided to

:51:20.:51:24.

overturn the ballot results. In effect, setting off in my view a

:51:25.:51:29.

constitutional issue. They have decided, somebody centrally, in this

:51:30.:51:35.

case, Gareth Fox, a man who is elected by no one, he decided to

:51:36.:51:41.

appoint to an elected seat a person who received neither the support of

:51:42.:51:45.

the Conservative Party membership in Yorkshire North of the electorate.

:51:46.:51:50.

Let me read the statement from the Conservative Party, following the

:51:51.:51:55.

departure from the European Parliament, John Proctor has been

:51:56.:51:59.

confirmed by the Conservative Party. He will be a strong voice for

:52:00.:52:03.

Yorkshire and the Humber as we get on with the job of delivering what

:52:04.:52:09.

the people of the UK voted for, making a success of Brexit. Why

:52:10.:52:12.

would you want to spend thousands of pounds of your money for a job that

:52:13.:52:17.

won't exist in a few years? I have campaigned for the

:52:18.:52:21.

Conservative Party for nearly 20 years. My father is a father of

:52:22.:52:28.

political -- Is a professor of political science, I have grown up

:52:29.:52:31.

with political economy in my blood. It would have been a huge honour for

:52:32.:52:37.

me, having fought on the Brexit side of the arguments, to go to the

:52:38.:52:42.

European Parliament and put a very positive case about our relationship

:52:43.:52:46.

with the European Union. As you know, I am half English, half

:52:47.:52:52.

Austrian, born in France, I wife is German, I had Italian and Spanish

:52:53.:52:58.

cousins. I love Europe. I wanted the opportunity, possibly the most

:52:59.:53:03.

exciting part of our history since the end of the Second World War, to

:53:04.:53:08.

do something positive. Do you sympathise, has he been

:53:09.:53:12.

mistreated? Of course I sympathise. But those

:53:13.:53:17.

are the rules. That is the decision made. That he

:53:18.:53:22.

has been leapfrogged by the third person?

:53:23.:53:24.

That is what the court has decided to uphold. I would be sore about it.

:53:25.:53:30.

The court did not overturn anything, we were trying to stop the

:53:31.:53:35.

nomination of John Proctor because we had been given 30 days and we had

:53:36.:53:39.

a dispute with the Conservative Party and we needed to get more time

:53:40.:53:46.

to go to a judicial evaluation. The injunction for the High Court on

:53:47.:53:54.

the council was not something that had to do with the vote but delaying

:53:55.:53:58.

the process of nominating John Proctor. The important thing is a

:53:59.:54:03.

question of democracy. Will you pursue it? It is an

:54:04.:54:09.

interesting thing. The bottom line for me is that, having worked so

:54:10.:54:14.

hard for an organisation for so long, I stood for three general

:54:15.:54:19.

elections, I won the ballot for membership in 2014, and received

:54:20.:54:24.

127,000 votes, John received zero, he did not get the backing of

:54:25.:54:29.

anybody, not that many in the Conservative Party in Yorkshire. He

:54:30.:54:33.

has been appointed to an elected position.

:54:34.:54:39.

The question is, will I do it? It is difficult for me to say. I haven't

:54:40.:54:44.

decided. We have the litigation papers ready to go and a strong

:54:45.:54:47.

case. The bottom line to me is this. If an

:54:48.:54:53.

organisation can treat its volunteers and its candidates like

:54:54.:54:59.

slave Labour, and attacked them as they have when really they haven't

:55:00.:55:02.

done anything wrong or they haven't bought the party in disrepute in any

:55:03.:55:08.

particular way, what is the point of the organisation?

:55:09.:55:10.

Let us know if you go ahead with further legal action.

:55:11.:55:12.

Now, it's to find out the answer to our quiz.

:55:13.:55:14.

The question was, what appears on the cushions in Donald

:55:15.:55:17.

Or d) An embroidered image of the Mexican border?

:55:18.:55:25.

I have not had an invitation to Trump Towers, I think it is the coat

:55:26.:55:36.

of arms. It has got to be. It would be nice

:55:37.:55:40.

to think it was any of the others. You are right.

:55:41.:55:43.

Well, we're joined now by the heraldic consultant -

:55:44.:55:45.

and we're pleased to hear there is such a job -

:55:46.:55:48.

Welcome to the programme. Tell us about this coat of arms of Donald

:55:49.:55:57.

Trump, what does it represent? It is interesting, arcane heraldic

:55:58.:56:03.

Scottish law provided evidence of his deep and Ophelia and touches on

:56:04.:56:10.

the royal prerogative. Donald Trump in 2008 tried to get the Government

:56:11.:56:14.

support in Scotland for one of his golf courses and he put out this

:56:15.:56:20.

Trump coat of arms. In fact they were created by two people in his

:56:21.:56:27.

staff. You can see clear violations in the rules. Scotland has strict

:56:28.:56:35.

heraldic regulations. The monarch is delegated the royal authority to the

:56:36.:56:42.

Scottish judge. Trump was forced to abandon this coat of arms

:56:43.:56:47.

embarrassingly. Four years later the crown granted a coat of arms to the

:56:48.:56:52.

golf course, not Donald Trump. So the pillows are for an Aberdeen

:56:53.:56:56.

golf course. We can see in there, what does it

:56:57.:56:59.

say about him? A coat of arms is a shorthand to

:57:00.:57:03.

history. We have these Scottish lion rampant

:57:04.:57:09.

in a stylised version. Two stars beneath it for his American

:57:10.:57:17.

heritage. And a representation for the golf course. And the double

:57:18.:57:21.

headed eagle representing his Scottish- Germanic heritage.

:57:22.:57:28.

The eagle is grasping two golf balls!

:57:29.:57:34.

What if my guests wanted their own coat of arms, how difficult is it?

:57:35.:57:40.

They must be a person of outstanding quality.

:57:41.:57:47.

Anyone who has some professional qualification, a university degree

:57:48.:57:51.

or stand out in the community, can petition for a coat of arms for

:57:52.:57:56.

?5,000 in England, ?3000 in Scotland.

:57:57.:58:00.

It is a prolonged process but the wonderful way to preserve your final

:58:01.:58:04.

heritage for future generations because Coats of Arms of personal

:58:05.:58:07.

property which cannot be assumed by others.

:58:08.:58:12.

Any ideas for a motto if you had a coat of arms or was it might look

:58:13.:58:14.

like? It would have to be some quote from

:58:15.:58:21.

the Bard. They play a big part particularly liked the bit at the

:58:22.:58:25.

end of Henry V where the announces the enormous war dead on the other

:58:26.:58:29.

side... He had thought about it. And for

:58:30.:58:33.

you? I am wondering whether there are any

:58:34.:58:39.

Smith coats of arms I could steal. Can you clone them. Thanks you very

:58:40.:58:40.

much. The One O'clock News is starting

:58:41.:58:41.

over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon tomorrow,

:58:42.:58:49.

with all the big political stories of the day -

:58:50.:58:52.

do join me then.

:58:53.:58:55.

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